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IQ2 Debate: "Europe is failing its Muslims" - Intro, Tariq Ramadan and Douglas Murray. (1 of 6) 

Intelligence Squared
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As the first speaker in favour of the motion Tariq Ramadan states his belief that Europe has failed its Muslims in various different ways. It has allowed a political discourse in which Muslims, like the Turks and Bosnians, are not viewed as European citizens and has neglected to recognise the historical contribution of Muslim philosophers and scientists in forging the continent's identity, or the economic contribution of Muslims since World War II.
Arguing against the motion Douglas Murray states that Islam is associated with violence for good reasons; it wasn't Buddhists or Atheists who were responsible for the 9/11 or 7/7 attacks. He says that the Muslim population has grown extraordinarily fast - from barely anything in the mid 20th century to between 15 and 17 million at the start of the 21st - and has been relatively successful. But there had been a failure of leadership among Muslim leaders, many of who were paid generously by European governments. The current leader of the Muslim Council of Britain couldn't even condemm stoning.
Full video available at www.intelligencesquared.com/ev...

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14 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 341   
@Fenixx117
@Fenixx117 13 лет назад
That audience sure is rude, proving Douglas Murray's point about the inability of people to listen without freaking out about so called "discrimination"
@routeman680
@routeman680 8 лет назад
"Boo!" says the audience. "Ladies and gentlemen, it's not a pantomime," says Douglas Murray. So you work out the intellect and integrity of each.
@andreasoliver6185
@andreasoliver6185 4 года назад
For info this guy Tarik Ramadan is in Jail for torture and rape against women
@siim605
@siim605 4 года назад
He's just following the example of the prophet Muhammad. lmao
@harryabb7992
@harryabb7992 3 года назад
LIES. He is falsely accused of rape pending trial.
@tickledonions9483
@tickledonions9483 Год назад
LOL
@ahhinwee6195
@ahhinwee6195 11 лет назад
Why muslim keep on changing their stand is it koran has so many different interpretation or they lie to defend their religion or are they in delusion
@Noodlehorn
@Noodlehorn 4 года назад
Taqqiya
@tickledonions9483
@tickledonions9483 Год назад
All of the reasons 😂
@qustuntunia8689
@qustuntunia8689 3 месяца назад
this is not a classroom go and read the quran and come back.
@Egu022
@Egu022 14 лет назад
Douglas Murray is simply brilliant! So eloquent and to the point!
@louiscfc93
@louiscfc93 12 лет назад
Douglas Murray stood strong
@mariamichael1807
@mariamichael1807 4 года назад
Douglas Murray puts it so succinctly. Full marks to Murray.
@davidkellar6732
@davidkellar6732 5 лет назад
Im not against anyone but Douglas wins every point
@sagirashraf2790
@sagirashraf2790 5 лет назад
David Kellar white racist Europeans who consider themselves superior don't mix with Muslim's. And even yelled at us calling us terrorist
@1984magu
@1984magu 5 лет назад
@@sagirashraf2790 a muslim crying for raxism...sooo strange, sooooo original.... FUCK ISLAM !!!
@uLise4Life
@uLise4Life 4 года назад
If Europe is failing its muslims why muslim don't migrate to muslim countries from middle east or northen Africa?
@vitocorleone1501
@vitocorleone1501 4 года назад
The more a society deviates from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
@deborahmoses6917
@deborahmoses6917 Год назад
Great to see Douglas Murray being as brave and brilliant as he always is! Thank you for your moral and intellectual courage Douglas Murray. What a beautiful job, admirable on both intellectual as well as broad moral and political levels. I salute your courage!
@johnnymarshall5828
@johnnymarshall5828 4 года назад
muslims don,t want to integrate be honest about it
@saraqostahterra4548
@saraqostahterra4548 3 года назад
That's actually false. I'm a Muslim, of Moroccan origin, born and raised in Belgium, like my father. I would very much like to integrate in Belgium, but it's difficult. It really has to come from both sides. We Moroccans should put effort into it, but also the Belgians (government really). People here complain about extremist Islam becoming more prevalent after every generation. Yh, if the government does not recognize and fund local mosques, Saudi-Arabia will fund the local mosques and send their books and imams to these mosques to preach there, and spread their own saudi Islam there. That's why you'll see Moroccan-practicing-Muslims in Belgium being more likely to hate jews, find music haram, like niqaab, etc... While Muslims in Morocco have no problem with music and jews and don't care about niqaab. You can even choose not to wear headscarf in Morocco, nobody cares. People complain about the newer generation Moroccans (3d Gen) being "more islamic". Yh, sure. That because people keep talking about Islam. As a consequence Moroccans in Belgium will evolve their identity around being Muslim. Because that's what they are constantly being pointed at. When you ask muslims in Morocco what they are, they'll tell you; "ana Maghreebi", which means; "I'm Moroccan". However, if you ask Moroccans in Belgium what they are, they'll say; "I'm Muslim" 🤔 I'm not just going to complain and blame Belgians for this one. My point is that when you want people to integrate, give them the possibility to do so. And the Belgian government did not do that. I can get that original intention was that the first Moroccan guest workers would return to Morocco, but once they noticed that that wasn't the case and that they actually imported more immigrants, why didn't they made it obligatory by law for every new Belgian citizen to learn Dutch or French? Why didn't they fund that so the law could be realized as well? Why not? Why always complain about us being us? I can get that you don't like immigration. You're not the first in history. But I don't like being of immigrant origin literally getting born in this mess. You have to realize that if a friend group doesn't accept the newcomer, the newcomer will not be part of the friendgroup, no matter the effort he puts into it. So, it's not only us that have to integrate. Integrations should also be made possible and encouraged. And with all those alt right parties who like to complain and bitch about everything but never come with practical solutions, it isn't going to help much. The same goes for alt left parties who like to act that there's nothing going on.
@thermopules
@thermopules 10 лет назад
since when turks are Europeans?
@sagirashraf2790
@sagirashraf2790 5 лет назад
thermopules Ottoman empire superpower of Europe from 1453 until 1683😃😃😃😃
@mhummadswingedhorseallahha1157
@@sagirashraf2790 ottoman empire didn't do anything for europe exept massacring them and impailing europeans on spears
@armoda1057
@armoda1057 4 года назад
Sagir Ashraf only the lesser countries of Europe. Northwestern Europe is the jewel, the surrounding countries can only look up.
@joannechisholm4501
@joannechisholm4501 4 года назад
@@sagirashraf2790 97% is in Asia
@jonnypicasso1
@jonnypicasso1 13 лет назад
I didn't realise we had a special obligation to make Muslims feel good.
@MrBasilGanglia
@MrBasilGanglia 14 лет назад
Brilliant Doug. Keep it up.
@Salongsberusad
@Salongsberusad 12 лет назад
Douglas Murray does NOT deserve that booing at him. That booing EQUALS the naive and non arguing mental BLOCKING of the simple truth. THIS exact reaction towards an intellectual argument based on documented FACTS is revealing the attitude towards this problem. Those booing people does NOT live in no-go areas, those people booing probably aren´t muslims. At least not muslim women, who are more likely to agree with the picture Murray has portraied.
@michaelwhitley2081
@michaelwhitley2081 4 года назад
Europe is not a Muslim “state”, but it appears the Muslim migrants from EU countries have the automatic belief that once they arrive in a non-Muslim country it should become one. I admire their fervour, however they are wrong. There is now a problem with integration which that it has become the indigenous peoples of European countries who are being told that they hold minority views and should learn to integrate. That’s backwards... however Tariq makes an excellent point. I think he problem is not one of Muslim countries in Europe but Muslim countries in the EU.
@mbass77
@mbass77 14 лет назад
The question is, how far tolerance should go? So far to tolerate intolerant ideologies as well?
@Bouchon211
@Bouchon211 7 лет назад
9:26 Bernie Sanders? Douglas Murray destroyed everyone in his opening statement, should have just ended it there and called it a day.
@MagicMutilator6000
@MagicMutilator6000 12 лет назад
Douglas Murray definitely won the opening statement. Tariq is such a demanding and ungrateful person, you can tell how nervous and negative he is, Unlike Murray who is very relaxed and objective. Here in Luxen, we would show you much less leniency for your demanding and aggressive nature, so just be happy that UK has more tolerance towards you all.
@seibrav
@seibrav 11 лет назад
Just today an Evangelical Pastor was released from prison in Iran. How kind they are to the non-Muslims. To deny the oppression of non-Muslims in Muslim majority countries is to deny facts. Just because you find them there does not prove what quality of life they have. They live as second class citizens for the most part, and are not treated equally under the law.
@tickledonions9483
@tickledonions9483 Год назад
What was the name of the pastor?
@princessjess2915
@princessjess2915 Год назад
After 9 years, I dont think he van remember the pastors name
@MIKEDIAMONDZ
@MIKEDIAMONDZ 4 года назад
after 10 years Murray is so right
@Molandria
@Molandria 13 лет назад
I find it funny how, they are booing him... I can't help but think it's because he's... offended them. *chuckles*
@tickledonions9483
@tickledonions9483 Год назад
They are dying inside... Too scared to admit the truth!!!
@user-sw2lv3zp6o
@user-sw2lv3zp6o 4 года назад
Thumbs up for Murray.
@seibrav
@seibrav 11 лет назад
You're claim that Mohammad eradicated slavery is a flat out lie. I'm not claiming that the West didn't have slavery. The main difference between Christianity and Islam concerning the issue of slavery is that the tenets of Christianity deplore slavery and the tenets of Islam allow for it. That is a fact. Like I stated earlier, do some research on the current slavery practices by Muslims in Africa.
@Femmeaesthetic
@Femmeaesthetic 5 месяцев назад
Yeah the idea of “free will” comes from Christianity
@Femmeaesthetic
@Femmeaesthetic 5 месяцев назад
We know there European Muslims & citizens in Europe, main problem people have is the theology of ☪️
@gabix7488
@gabix7488 2 года назад
Murray is just brilliant.
@Intelligence-Squared
@Intelligence-Squared 13 лет назад
Tariq Ramadan will be speaking for Intelligence Squared again next week (Tuesday 15th February 2011) on the current democracy protests in the Arab world. Riot or revolution?
@peterkerruish8136
@peterkerruish8136 2 года назад
If I walked into a used car lot and tariq ramadan approached me- I'd leave!... He's about as "Real" as a Winged Horse...
@ManicMindTrick
@ManicMindTrick 13 лет назад
This is very promising...
@oliknowles7645
@oliknowles7645 2 года назад
ive watched many of Doug's speeches. this introduction is incredible.
@cdexswzaq107
@cdexswzaq107 14 лет назад
@avatarion There are a few white muslims. There are many Arab muslims. There are many African muslims. There are many eastern Asian muslims. Islam sure as fucking hell is not an ethnicity.
@ahhinwee6195
@ahhinwee6195 11 лет назад
After reading the information from the you tube i feel that it is so difficult to know ISLAM The reason is simply the muslim say contradition of their religion some say islam is a religion of peace other muslim preach and practice violent
@dostatdoram7
@dostatdoram7 13 лет назад
silent revolution describes perfectly what i feel in my daily life...media speaks an other language than my experience my ppl everyday.
@philsci1
@philsci1 13 лет назад
Tarik obviously forgot to talk about the fact that muslims must start applying critical thinking to islam itself and reopen the 'gates of the Itjihad' (reinterpretation of muslim law and traditions, non trivial changes are needed). I'm afraid that only a return toward the 'Mecca islam' (renouncing in the same time at the current, extreme, despise for critical thinking applied to religion itself) can transform islam in a multicultural factor and produce a real, stable, muslim Enlightenment...
@DataEAstJ
@DataEAstJ 14 лет назад
Can someone link me to part 2?
@affiliateghost665
@affiliateghost665 2 года назад
does anyone have a link to the full video?
@deestilo
@deestilo 13 лет назад
Fight them (disbelievers) until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39 Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216 It is simple and basic, kill kill kill.
@mademan4life
@mademan4life 13 лет назад
rest of the parts?????
@hataimti
@hataimti 13 лет назад
@sfirita this is where patience is tested..
@He805
@He805 14 лет назад
Why does a lot of muslims come and stay here and still claiming about the lifestyle we have here in the west.....If they don`t like it here,why do they not go back to their homeland?
@Reid573
@Reid573 14 лет назад
What is Ramadan babbling on about with this "we don't see muslims as european". As far as I'm aware, the majority of muslims here in Britain see THEMSELVES as Muslim first and British second. I think it's around 60% but I'll check it out if so desired.
@tickledonions9483
@tickledonions9483 Год назад
Tariq's whole argument: There is discrimination against Muslim and there are good things about Muslims Uh do you have any stats? Why are you not acknowledging WHY THERE WAS DISCRIMINATION IN THE FIRST PLACE? Seems biased, don't you think?? 😅😂😂😂
@qurmughsil
@qurmughsil 14 лет назад
smithdeep I think that we have to fuck with each others because we need each other
@seibrav
@seibrav 11 лет назад
How is fundamental meaning of your quote's translation any different than the one I quoted? They both call on the believer to kill the disbeliever. Now you are getting into semantics.
@qbulb
@qbulb 13 лет назад
@dogmachris ....Thanks! You're right! It's amazing how they will take something we say and twist it to something else.
@beefdlo
@beefdlo 12 лет назад
douglas murray is seriously spot on here
@minovia2
@minovia2 14 лет назад
wer is the rest parts ???
@privateny
@privateny 14 лет назад
i'm not sure if he was given enough time to speak during the debate. the audience asked lots of questions and badawi, the bbc woman, wasn't very apt at handling them well, i think.
@melese1988
@melese1988 14 лет назад
I really didn't like the reaction of the crowd, when it was said that the violece is associated with muslims and not with buddhists.
@401758
@401758 13 лет назад
any one know were part 2 is ?
@HiAdrian
@HiAdrian 14 лет назад
@UmmahTube You got it mixed up. It's dangerous if you have a problem with people, not if you have a problem with ideologies.
@TehNoobDan
@TehNoobDan 14 лет назад
@AllahkaDost1 in english?
@TehNoobDan
@TehNoobDan 14 лет назад
@smithdeep sooo true
@vijaykrishna3538
@vijaykrishna3538 5 лет назад
6:40 to 6:45 that chinese looking woman's expression ahhhhhh they just can't tolerate the truth at all.
@mungonpoo
@mungonpoo 11 лет назад
So does that make it okay?
@magnusea
@magnusea 14 лет назад
@CorporalNym I shoöd add that I firmly believe that the most important thing in the Muslim immigration into Europe now is Al-Hirja, which is an Islamic doctrin to expand the religion and political system of Islam. I think one shall interpret the Hamas son Tariq Ramadan's rhetorical words from that perspective. He wants the mass immigration discource to prevail.
@diekerze
@diekerze 14 лет назад
@kash959 Glad you got out. Enjoy your life =)
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
i agree with you, if an imam or an person use religion to justify his own crimes he must be punisheb according to the laws but the other beleivers have not to pay the price.
@johnbr59
@johnbr59 13 лет назад
@Treyb3yond I think this sentiment is rapidly increasing. And the blame for this is laid on white racism - always on white shortcomings. Never on Muslims or immigrants or their faults. This motion of Europe failing its Muslim - which, as Douglas Murray described, is 'obscene' - is a perfect example of this.
@theilliad4298
@theilliad4298 9 лет назад
He's saying all these things but where is the evidence?
@SirParcifal
@SirParcifal 5 лет назад
Europe needs a Vlad the impaler...
@AAmed1980
@AAmed1980 13 лет назад
@TheDriveMaster By the way, the reason Jesus didnt seemingly have a social agenda was because the social agenda was already purveyed in the old testament. And because Jesus lived during a time when there was already an established order under the Romans and the temple priests. Jesus still however did have some kind of revolutionary ideas. So much so that he was considered a threat to the order that existed. So he to had a social agenda as you put it.
@Teedeejayen
@Teedeejayen 14 лет назад
@lollylopdraws Actually, it may surprise you, I got an A* in GCSE RE. Good luck.
@sfirita
@sfirita 13 лет назад
@hataimti yeah you'r right, i have lot of juish/christians friends, an open minded ones, and they accept our religion as we accept theirs , but cases like this one, just make me feel little bit ungry...
@BaronLipton
@BaronLipton 14 лет назад
@smithdeep You obviously weren't listening to what the first speaker said at all.
@jehaddrubi
@jehaddrubi 14 лет назад
christian in arab countries and european in gulf should be dealt the same
@seibrav
@seibrav 11 лет назад
The last revelations of Mohammed were not dictated concerning a specific war in time, but were stated as the eternal duty of all believers. It doesn't really matter though, as it is your fellow Muslims who follow the violent hateful Qur'anic verses, Haddiths, and Sunnah. Good luck trying to convince them that they are taking things out of context. You would be risking your own life to do so. That we now have let such Muslims into our lands is pure folly.
@negi1107
@negi1107 11 лет назад
I cant listen to the whole debate as it has to be removed from internet, says some thing about itself......who is failing whom
@555discovery
@555discovery 13 лет назад
I see all those anti-islamic ppl commenting here and I feel like laughing..hundreds are converting to islam everyday in Europe..there has to be a reason for that..don't u think??O_o
@Provoker7
@Provoker7 14 лет назад
@simsi1616 hit the nail on the head.
@LondonTiger3
@LondonTiger3 14 лет назад
Dears in this world, at least you have to hear from both ends before taking decision, every religion is against violence REGARDLESS of what some people action under the name of religioin.. whatever Isreli people do bad, not -definitely- expresses Jew teachings...!! same with Muslim people, there is a HUGE difference between ISLAM and Muslims... have to admit!
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
judaism and christianity and islam come all of them from middle east! il don't say that islam started in europe!
@sfirita
@sfirita 13 лет назад
@hataimti even "ayoub's" legendary patience will not be inoff in front of this ^^
@xTuRkoo
@xTuRkoo 11 лет назад
He's a professor at Oxford University being helped by the best muslim scholars in the world, and you think that you can call him ''a total joke'' with one statement which doesn't even include any intelligent arguments... I know we all are hypocrites to some extent, but don't exagerate
@seibrav
@seibrav 11 лет назад
Death to apostates is compulsion. When Muslims cite this Surah I find it completely disingenuous. And those Surahs that seem in conflict are replaced by those that came later and are better. There are plenty of Surahs that render Surah 2:256 void. Do a search "Is There Compulsion in Islam? - Patheos" it is an excellent article which refutes your claim. Also, a letter from 36 Muslim scholars to Pope Benedict XVI claims that Surah 2:256 only applied to the children of non-Muslims in Medina.
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
yes there some new laws, like the law against hijab in france, and there is racism like many case where companies refuse somme applicants hen they read their arabic names on the CV, the problem is not in these few restrictive law but when we see that a lot of polical parties want to establish more of this kind of laws in the future. i invite you to read the chapiter called "maria" in quran?
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
it give us citizenships!! are you joking? islam is not a country or a race it's a religion!! i'm french because my parents was french and because i was born in france!! we are 20000 french who choose to embrasse islam every year!
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
i agree totaly with you, but the problem is not here, most of european muslims respect european laws but there is some racist european parties who try to change these laws to not allows muslims to practice their religion
@tickledonions9483
@tickledonions9483 Год назад
Source? And where do you draw the line where Muslims infringe on OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHTS? If your religion forces other people to follow your rules, then there is a problem. It's not 'racism', it's about the religion. THE PROBLEMS START WHEN ISLAM ENTERS EUROPE. GUESS WHO IS TO BLAME 😂😂😂
@TheAdnaneRs
@TheAdnaneRs 12 лет назад
371 million? Get your facts right!
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
so if a women want to cover his head the state must respect his right to practice his religion, Mr Ramadan say that in islam it's not allowed to impose hijab to wemen but according to human right it's also not allowed to govs to ban it!
@pizzicatoiv
@pizzicatoiv 14 лет назад
because only muslims would boo at his racist comment? ridiculous.
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
how can france tell muslims that hijab is not an islamic requirement? and why you want to impose your interpretation on millions of muslims who say that an islamic requirement i mean why you allows your nuns to wear the hijab and not muslim women?
@seibrav
@seibrav 11 лет назад
There are not Jews in Iranian parliment, there is one Jew, just as there is one Zoroastrian. Christians and Jews in Muslim majority lands are under constant threat and treated as second class citizens. This is a fact. The populations of non-Muslims has been dropping drastically due to persecution in these lands. You are failing on all levels to prove that Islam is something we should allow into our lands. The Qur'an, the Haddiths, and the Sunnah are full of hatred for all that is not Muslim.
@kash959
@kash959 14 лет назад
@lahij not really.. allah says be a slave to islam. In fact the word islam itself means "submit/surrender". so no freedom, only slavery.. islam is man-made and should be given up for a better, freer life, without constant fear and guilt
@lumierdujour
@lumierdujour 14 лет назад
i'm sorry but i'm an european muslim so i can speak about human rights and i'm not concerned if these human rights are not respected by some dictatorships in muslim countries wich are supported by our european and american govs! and as i know homosexuality is baned by all the religions!
@ahmedeox
@ahmedeox 13 лет назад
The muslims that have been here for centuries are peaceful and secular. The problems are raised by muslim immigrants and second generation thereof. What Tariq is doing is to conflate the two under the same heading: muslim.
@KUzZ911
@KUzZ911 14 лет назад
Who said most Pakistanis are supporting Taliban. You know Pakistan is Poor nation.
@ahmedeox
@ahmedeox 13 лет назад
Hey, was there ever a debate in the UK about making Polish ppl feel more at home? or about making Eastern Europeans in general or the Chinese feel more at home? No? Then why the f*** are we talking about muslims? Why are they so special?
@rekenmaaropmij
@rekenmaaropmij 14 лет назад
@januk36 omg, sorry for my english it's not my best language, but you are saying something about the islam wich is not correct, that;s te reason why I say tou read te quran, and yes I read the bible too, to see the big differences, and to see that the islam is the best religion for **ME**!! but you haven;t need a religion to have respect right? so have respect voor other religions if you are a atheist, or a christian it doesn't matter for me it's your decision:) peace!
@AAmed1980
@AAmed1980 13 лет назад
@TheDriveMaster Here is what happned in Israel when a Gay pride parade was attacked.. The parade, which is traditionally held in June, was postponed this year specifically to coincide with the one-year anniversary of a shooting rampage that took place at the Bar Noar gay and lesbian youth center in Tel Aviv last summer, claiming the lives of Nir Katz 24, and Liz Trobashi 27. So you really think hatred is only present among Muslims? Educating yourself would help.
@iMaDeMoN2012
@iMaDeMoN2012 13 лет назад
@dogmachris No one should spell no one like "noone", if they want to get a perfect 10 in spelling. *hopes he didn't make a grammar error*
@thetallashi
@thetallashi 14 лет назад
@TheCoyote890 coz they are leaders of world's future
@jehaddrubi
@jehaddrubi 14 лет назад
zinab badawi is arab so here is live example to arab contribution to europe
@HookahMan99
@HookahMan99 12 лет назад
@jotiacanava careful now..this is exactly why people think that mr. murray's position is prejudice or racism. The problem isn't muslims, they are people and should be treated as such. the problem is Islam itself
@icecreammanfif
@icecreammanfif 14 лет назад
@smithdeep islam is a religion, not a race, so europe is the country of many muslim poeple
@Viruspirate
@Viruspirate 14 лет назад
they should have invented ayaan hirsi ali
@SDK2584
@SDK2584 13 лет назад
Europe is doomed.
@sfirita
@sfirita 13 лет назад
@NaturalBornHedonist no, i dont have any hard feeling toward you, why should i ,its clear that we have an intese conversation ^^ but its good to change ideas whatever the way we take for it, as a muslim i dont hate anyone but devil (wich is in some case human been lol)...
@krustofskie
@krustofskie 14 лет назад
@smithdeep Europe is not a country but a continent. Muslims born in a European country and very possibly a family that has been European for centuries are to go back to which country?????? I don't think Europe owes anything to anybody because of their religious belief, but you're statement is not only an oxymoron it is also lacking in understanding. The question put was is Europe failing ITS Muslims. ITS Muslims ie: Muslims that are in fact European not immigrants or other nationals.
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