Is A Solid Wood Table... Bad? (warping) S15E18 

My toppers got warped and Jackie got me taken care of with replacements and those new slotted stoppers! Thought she deserved a shoutout!

I'm looking forward to Doug's full skillshare courses on Wood, Art, Business, Government, Math, Web Development, and Paloozas.

So I see we are back to cliffhanger endings. This must be our punishment for proving Doug wrong with the mugs.

Moister under the toppers is a reflection of not using it often enough. The solution is to make more friends and play more games.

This information and Dougs drawings should be something in a Customer Care & Information packet that ships with the tables!

A part left out, though I believe you guys already account for it, is the cut of the wood. Grain direction and closeness to this pith play a role in that curvature as well.

Also, if you put a protective top to your table (like acrylic) because you have kids or adult who behave like them, it will reduce this issue because you will be preventing humidity on the top as well.

I have a wooden cutting board that 2-3 months ago was completely warped and bent from soaking in water partially. We put it in our dish washer and it “magically” came out perfectly straight. Doug just explained why, thanks!

I ordered a table last week, and started watching these as a way to pass the time until it arrives. Not gonna lie, this makes my morning sometimes. lol

Also worth noting that this problem is increased by having the vault there... A normal table doesn't have a sealed humidor underneath the top. I'm curious if you've considered vent holes of some sort to allow for airflow on the inside as well.

This is super useful information and I think it could be added to the maintenance and care section for the MGT.

So, as the owner of the padauk table that was in the image of the warping end toppers (The left one), I'm actually really pleased they did this video. I guess my table is kinda infamous now? Anyway, Wyrmwood replaced the end toppers, which was great! Especially because I live in the far north, so shipping that was probably ridiculously expensive. However, ALL of my toppers are warping, two of them no longer line up enough for the tongue in groove to work at all. They're all getting worse. The thing is, they spend MOST of their time in the block, standing upright. I use it as a gaming table 90% of the time, not a dinner table. I did contact Wyrmwood about this and they suggested flipping them, so I'm trying that, but I'm skeptical just because they're usually in the block, not on the table. It's bad enough that I'm considering finding just a non-wood replacement for the topper because not only does it suck to spend $6k on a table and it's all rattling and uneven after 6 months, but Wyrmwood can't just keep replacing them either. I'm hoping the warping evens out, but I'm just not sure where to go from here.

Warping is definitely a thing, the MGT Toppers had warping issues early on. Luckily, the craftsman’s promise is real and the Wyrmwood Team replaced my toppers! Table Is great!

Lake= 20 acres or more. Pond= under 20 acres. ( according to Illinois DNR.) There is a Depth component too .

I think for the topper warping issue, getting footage of a time lapse of it warping, being flipped, and unwarping would be a good idea to show people how it works.

Grain direction will also affect the warp of a piece of wood (unless it's quartersawn) as the direction of expansion is always perpendicular to the direction of the grain.

Honestly a great basic explanation of how wood works as a material and the advantages and disadvantages of solid wood construction, kudos!

I have an OG MGT from the first kickstarter in Cherry and while it moves a tiny bit, it's WELL within spec. It's been years and it's solid as hell.

This daily Wyrmlife is what I love to watch on my lunch breaks. Thank you!

Morning Wyrmlings! Whos excited for the thing tomorrow?

Woodworker here. Doug's class on Wood Movement 101 is spot on. However, I don't think the issue is "cupping" as drawn by Doug - it's "twisting" along the full length of the board. In my experience, this is because the wood that is being milled during production is still too wet. Don't know that I've ever seen a kiln drying process shown on Wyrmlife.

Roughly half the toppers I've received started significantly warped straight out of the box. Most of the rest continued to slowly warp over time. Temp/humidity conditions have stayed fairly consistent on the dryer side in the nearly 5 months I've had the table. I've had my toppers flipped since Monday night after another owner was told about this via email. I hope it helps, but it is pretty inconvenient needing them to be all upside down for weeks at a time.

Probably the most personally useful episode. Really educational and a great help to my customer experience.

Loves these educational breaks sometimes

Currently building my own MGT-style table (because I can't afford to buy one and ship it to the UK lol) and have just built the toppers, which are already cupping. I even planed them close to size and let them climatise in the house for a couple of weeks before doing final planing! Wood movement is very real and it's a pain in the arse. I currently have them stickered and stacked with clamps and am rotating them (just like Doug said) every few days to try to get them stable before final finishing.

Does the vault need to be vented to mitigate this issue?

My table is totally doing this. I'm glad its an easy fix!!

Good explainer. Thank you!

Thanks for the wood lesson Doug! Now my wood is smart!

8:13 - I'm disappointed in the media/editing team for not adding Benicio in The Usual Suspects "He'll flip ya" scene.

Good morning from Texas. I love your products.

It's honestly good to talk about this, I think most people will know wood does expands and contracts over seasons.. but not that warping usually just means it's very much fixable / reversible.

I feel called out... my bumpers were too tight and I had a topper crack... but Customer Service was great and got me a new one extremely quickly... with the adjustable stoppers. No problems since!

I got some of the prototypes for those bumpers. Neat to see them becoming standard.

I feel a little bad now, I was one of the earliest backers and got a full set of replacement toppers thinking mine were defective from before you solved the humidity issue in the warehouse. I'll try this technique on the old ones and maybe have a backup set in reserve down the line.

I've had great experiences working with their customer support.

I use to have a wooden bassoon, most woodwind instruments follow the same regiment of putting orange peels and steam showers to keep the wood in good condition. If it got to dry the joints and key placements could can separate, and worse thing can happen when there is to much moisture is wood rot can happen. The things you do to keep wooden instruments and some wooden furniture in peek form.

So, these Wyrmlyfe folks can read what we say more easily? Nice. Matt, I hope you have a great day! #goldsandstone4life

Just an idea. To help with evaporation could you have a series hidden vent holes? Maybe in the accessory slot or on the tabletop itself under the felt?

Hello whoever is reading this!

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Dougie said that one of the reasons the toppers are ‘smiling’ and ‘frowning’ is because there is no air in the ‘vault’. Could you not solve this issue for the most part by essentially drilling a hole into the ‘vault’? Wouldn’t even be noticeable if the toppers where on. Hope this helps! 😊 First time I’ve commented here and just wanna say I’ve been watching Wyrmwood for years and honestly love you guys and gals! Weirdly gotten me through some tough times so thank you all! 🤟🏻

My table was an MGT 1.0 run (still looking gorgeous BTW) but one of the end toppers was warped from the start. WW did send a replacement but I still have the warped board and just checked it. Still warped. Sometimes it really is just a bad board. 😅

The big lewboski reference was genius!

Dear WW the grain structure of the wood also impacts the cupping direction. IInII will get frowny, while IIuII will get happy. Because ,and this more dominant on lighter less dense woods, the core wood shrinks differently than the outer layers.

Hardwood furniture is simply the best you can get. Hell, your grandchildren can inherit them if you are not into some fancy stuff nobody will be able to stand in 15 years. While knewing it had downsides (color changes, warping), I didn't know that 'bending' was so easy to fix. Thx a lot for that lesson!

Best show on RU-vid

We have entered the Professer Doug Era. ❤

the thing tomorrow? exciting!

If the flipping doesn't help, the part of the tree trunk the board is from may be of influence. If the end grain has a smile or a frown on it even when it's flat, it's more susceptible to warping. If it's short straight vertical, it's much more resistant. But that's more expensive wood.

As I watch this video, I am absorbting all this knowledge.

Excellent Big Lebowski clip

I was just starting to see this on my topper where the fit between the toppers isn't great right now. I'll give the flip a try. The humidity in my house is all over the place.

Edutational. I like it.

i love how whenever Doug says anything, Ed responds with variants of "So we're _doing customer service_. Dont worry about him, you are welcome, even if poor, call us"

Interesting, my end didn’t warp, but the middle did.

Sad face : ( didnt get in the queue quick enough to buy my (Prove Doug wrong Mug) but loved the Doug 101 class on wood design!

DO THE THING DOUGIE!

The first table I got right at the very start had this problem right out of the box, but I think the wood was also more fundamentally messed up as well. New toppers aren't nearly so bad, though I have noticed this problem to some extent now it's winter. Not bad enough to do anything about right now, though maybe I should ask for slotted feet idk.

Common Man Doug is really beholding himself to the people, with his lakehouse and fancy watch 😂

Ah nice to see Ed is always on

I see this is why I couldn't replie to your comment to my comment. Love you guys.

Great info! Especially for someone, like me, that lives in a very dry state (Colorado). Question though, how come the finishing process that the toppers go through doesn't prevent moisture changes?

One of the nice things about living in the desert is that I don't need to worry about the humidity too much because it's basically always zero. =)

I'm hopeful that the curling is as simple as flipping over the board. Love easy fixes

I neeeed an update on the development of the Gyroid dice. Need. #Dice-a-pa-loosa Don be a loosah!😂❤

I have a 100-year-old house (Och, these castles are so drafty!) and my walnut MGT end topper has had a 1/8" banana gap pretty much forever. I usually don't even notice, but sometimes it'll rock a bit and sometimes it won't. I just flipped it and we'll see if it unbananas.

I've had this issue for years with my table, but instead of a Wyrmwood table, it's a BandPassDesign one. All three leaves, which are bigger than the Wyrmwood leaves, have been bowing like this. I've never been told to flip them over though. I'll have to give that a try.

My end toppers (cherry) were warped but I was supplied a new set of end toppers. Those new toppers have never warped while my first set warped after 1 week.

No issues with my MGT toppers, I think my toddler beating the table constantly with his little wooden mallets is keeping it in check.

There is also the moisture content of the wood when its recieved from the supplier, if too high and not checked before milling it will definitely shrink and warp. Also all laminated pieces are supposed to be alternating wood direction to help keep from warping over time. This is a process control that should be monitored closely. Also how are you supposed to flip a topper over if it has a rubber foot scdewed to the bottom, add more holes to the topside?

If the issue with toppers warping is a humidity difference between the room and the vault, how about venting the vault? The joining between the toppers needs to be tight for liquids but they could sit up off the rail all the way around and provide some air movement...

This is what happens Larry when you f around and find out😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂// see this watch this watch cost more than my family 😂😂😂

The toppers movement/ warping could be greatly reduced if finger-jointed wood was used. Finger jointed is the standard wood used for most table tops.

As a woodworker, please try to do what Doug said and flip it, it works so much better than you might believe

Lol, this is the one complaint I have had about my table from the beginning (I was second month/wave of MGT 1.0)! The two ends have lifted up at the end. Definitely trying this, just wondering how permanent the fix is. Seems like you would have to keep flipping thing indefinitely.

Did you ever do an episode about sourcing your wood? Like in detail? That would be really interesting to hear about.

I’ll I could think during Doug’s presentation is that scene from the office when Dwight is the boss for a day… “Where does paper come from? Anyone?”

"Hello and welcome to a Masterclass on Wood. My name is Dougie Fresh the former-CEO of Wyrmwood Gaming, and I will be your teacher."

our summerhouse has a lake on the land but Its a swamp by name. I dont know if its acually a lake or swamp but its really shallow, like 3 meter is the depest until you reach the soft mud bottom and can sink further. Tho its really long and wide

Hope I get placed in the side box!

Mornin' from Ottawa Canada

I think the comments/complaints should be organized by those who've actually bought things from the company first, and therefore should have priority, rather than popular accounts...

Is there no good way to allow the table to ventilate? Would not be a problem if the interior moisture matched outside.

To stop the wood from unevenly drying inside, you could offer a moisture absorber packet. Kinda like the ones in fridges and Jerky.

Wouldn’t the topper storage help equalize the moisture content? Air flow on both sides. Maybe recommend letting the toppers rest in the storage for a few hours every week for the first 6 months of owning the table then switching to letting them rest for a few hours every month.

I can't wait for the video of doug going well wyrmlings made me a liar.

Watching Doug educate on wood biology, wondering if I'm going to hear the term "xylem and phloem" for the first time since 10th grade.

silica gel packs in the vault between uses?

Professor Dougy!

So if the issue can be the vault not having any air movement could I just alter the plywood and add a few perforations to allow the air inside to equalize with the outside air or maybe add a couple small computers fans to intake and exhaust the air in the vault so the humidity matches the outside of the vault?

If you can guarantee wood movement, you'll open up a whole new customer segment.

When I worked to a summer in the lumber, I did that to those that bent like hockey stick, just flip them make a like pressure and it straight it self. Boss didn't like me, got fired for some other person bullshit that were caught on camera.

My MGT end toppers aren't warping as shown... however, I do have one end and one middle topper that have developed a seams along the board glue-ups (might be my own fault for putting a seedling warming pad there last spring). It hasn't been enough to spur me to contact customer service for a fix. But if it continues to get worse I'm not going to love it.

Wood is really just the xylem that carries water, the phloem that carries sugar, and enough fibrous cellulose and lignin to keep the structure of the tree intact... and all of it is grown in concentric circles. That wood can keep any kind of shape when you're cutting it into flat cross-sections that don't take the curving into account is a miracle.

So would building in a way for the table well to be better ventilated address some of the topper warping? Granted the cost of building a table where the well has ventilation with the toppers on may be too costly.

Question? Could 2 vent holes be designed into the table to allow air movement down below the topper. Just a thought.

what about selling some dehumidifying packs to throw in the table to balance the inside and outside humidities?

can we talk about the large wide bracket and how thats going/when we can expect to be able to purchase it?

Could you reduce the humidity difference by venting the vault?

I wonder if there should be a paper or card included with your products that explain how to properly care for their furniture