Is Aptera's suspension finished? 

My guess is that the PI suspension hardware and specs may be modeled and/or released for further testing once the PI chassis are going together. Spring rates, bushing sizes and durometers, damping likely to be fine tuned prior to release for production. NVH testing cannot be complete at this point and these are critical components for tuning in that regard. There’s some history and timing we can discuss on discord.

Probably used the testing to validate the computer models. Pretty sure they will do further testing to validate the actual PI build, but the computer model validation gives them the confidence to move forward.

I suspect the suspension on beta is highly adjustable, and based on that it's close enough to build the final suspension. The final suspension will probably have some room for finer adjustments, so once the PI builds are in production, they can do those fine, final tweaks

Likely testing alignment settings, as well as shock valving. The Beta should have the adjustability to sort through these settings

I had imagined that they made adjustments to the beta mule. Maybe it was just springs shocks and dampers but maybe there was more. See what you can find out. It would be interesting to know. Thanks for the video.

The June Aptera update could be very interesting in that it may answer many of the questions posed here, I look forward to it. Thank you Steve!

I think that it was always the plan to outsource the manufacture of the front and rear suspension. Roush had done early consulting that resulted in the Beta suspension design, in addition to ongoing computer design and engineering simulation. It could be that Aptera's manufacturing partner for the suspension is in Italy. And they needed to compare the on-track dynamics of the Beta design before starting the manufacture of the final production suspension for the PI builds. To me, getting production parts delivered to Carlsbad, getting this suspension testing work, in addition to hiring staff for the next phase, in preparation for the start of vehicle production, are good signs of progress moving forward.

I love how the Beta has only gotten more Mad Max in recent months. I hope they keep it around, I'd love to see it in person when I pick up my LE

The suspension on Beta is probably adjustable enough to match the PI suspension.

Who knows ? Seeing an assembled PI might answer the question.

Hopefully there will be a Q&A at the investor meeting where many of these questions will be answered. I know I am writing down a few of my own. Thanks for the video.

Thank you for this video!

If Aptera is done with the frequency tuning of the suspension. That would tell me that they have calculated the desired spring rates and stiffness of the bushings. They had said in previous videos that those elements of the suspension needed testing and development. I would believe with the PI builds there would be a final validation test, which could be done with a few days on the track just to show its performance as expected.

Sounds like what they tested was how well the computer models for beta matched real world beta. Knowing where the differences were between those two they can make corrections to the PI model. It’s an approximation for sure but better than nothing.

I think they will have to go through one more suspension verification step when they build with the real parts. But, I don't think that will be a huge effort or delay.

It’s great to see activity in the production area and not just demo booths. More money would be better, but the hiring and activity makes it sound likely we’ll get to production

The suspension is fairly straightforward as far as components. Single sided swing arm in the rear closely mimics most motorcycle designs. Upper/lower control arms in front resembles most automotive designs. Matter of tweaking for travel, loads. Sure they will receive P.I. Chassis with fair amount of adjustability built in based off modeling. Now Steve we know you have quite the “pull” at Aptera but wouldn’t be surprised if they are mum on most specific answers you are looking for due to June update coming soon. As always thank you for all you do for us Apterians. The go to channel for sure.

Yeah, I was very curious about the reference to Beta in the update. It was my understanding that the components of the PI suspension were going to need to be tested to determine the best final design of the chassis. It didn't seem to me that Beta would be valuable for this test. Beta isn't even the latest prototype and from what I understand, it has a more beefed up and robust chassis. Then again, maybe that's the point. If Beta is the upper limit of what the suspension is capable of, then maybe they can see where it could be dialed back for the final product. The bigger issue is what this means for the final chassis. If no work has been done on the PI chassis until this moment, and I was right about testing needing to be done to finalize it's design, then it doesn't seem likely it will be done by the end of May. Then again, the test model (PI2 presumably) may not be usable for testing until it has a battery and wiring. So they may not have been able to get started until now. A more optimistic speculation would be that CPC has been continuing development of the chassis concurrent with the testing of Beta, and they are ready to assemble a vehicle that can be tested on the track by June 1. If they don't need to tweak the design any further and Beta helped them get the parameters right the first time, they could be well in their way to completing the chassis by the end of June or even earlier. All they need are the wiring harnesses that are being ordered, the battery, and the motors from Elaphe. The schedule revealed at the June 6 webinar may clarify some of these details. It's a bit frustrating that Chris dies not say what components will be completed at the end of May, just that they will be needed before the next components can be added.

Roush engineering suspension will be great.

I would also think that they know the final weight of the PI and real-world geometry for the various battery packs and associated GVW. They mentioned the weight of the vehicle vs. battery pack in a Steve/Chris months ago I believe. Since beta, they’ve also settled on a tire size/type/compound as well.

As Chris stated after beta testing at Chuckwalla raceway, computer modeling matched real world data collection. Italian testing provides more comparative data. Major differences in Aptera suspension are due to wheel weight with in wheel motors and reduced vehicle weight. I hope the Italian engineering team will improve torque vector to allow front wheel tank turns with rear wheel burnouts. 😂

I think that Italy is a great Place to retire Beta Aptera since CPC and Elaphe is close there. I would assume its not completely retired but rather repurposed to be modified for the EU Homologation because they need to change the suspension geometry to comply with European Standards (i.e. narrower stance). also probably to get the European reservation holders a chance to have a test drive there.

I think they engaged a new group to do the suspension testing that has their own instruments and methodology and this group wanted to repeat the suspension testing. I think they will need to do a verification of the suspension on the PI and wanted a baseline to compare it to.

Hell yes hiring up is good. Closer and closer to production!

Hopefully they got enough info from the Beta, however the Beta has the composit body, Roush suspension and no frame. Things will need to be teeked with the PI testing.

Good review Steve. I wish there had been an Arcimoto Owners Club.

Audre just let me know that they have just hired two helpers for her in communications. So now with assured funding, things that have been on hold for a while are now, are realy starting to move. As Steve and Chris can now focus on getting to production, rather than funding.

It would have been trivial for them to modify the Beta such that it exactly matched the PI geometry, in terms of location and spacing of how the suspension is attached. The testing done from that should be 100% correlated to the PI performance

Is it possible that they changed or modified the Beta suspension to be more like the PI build?

So is that white Aptera body that is over Chris's left shoulder something new? Possibly one of the PIs??

In terms of suspension, my own question is about what we saw during the demo rides around the parking lot at Carlsbad earlier this year - namely the torqueing of the long, race car style front control arms. I assume that this is normal and that the upper and lower control arms in this case are acting as a torsion style spring that twists (compresses) during acceleration , and releases energy during off-throttle. Obviously there is a finite lifespan to any spring because the amount of rebound will never be 100% due to molecular deformation of the spring. This deformation is a function of the frequency and degree of the compressions, the elasticity of the control arm's metal type, and the designed shape and thickness of the arms. I am pretty sure (??) that the engineers have taken all this into account since this is an issue of control arm longevity (and thus overall safety), as well as possible effects on steering, alignment, handling, as the arms become more and more deformed. Maybe this is something you can ask them next time? Once again, Thanks Steve!

ok... so whos going to be the first to turn in a hot lap at the nurburgring?

Keep in mind that there are various "levels" of testing: Individual components, discrete systems and whole-vehicle. Perhaps this signals that testing the suspension as a discrete system has concluded and any future testing of the suspension system will be conducted as part of whole-vehicle testing. Aptera still has to build their "fleet" of PI test vehicles for environmental testing, crash & safety testing, range testing, etc., all of which will include keeping an eye on how the suspension system is functioning.

Talking about suspension, they might use regenerative shock absorbers...that would even increase the efficiency of the car ? Probably too complex ?

Design, build, test, repeat. Pretty normal engineering.

I feel like you're asking some of the right questions in this video. One of my many questions is why are they only now ordering the components? The plan since November was to build the PI prototypes this year. I suppose it could be that some of these parts require several months lead time. In which case it will be very late next year before a production run can begin.

Would be nice to have semi active suspension, those systems are actually not even that expensive anymore and even aftermarket.

Will Aptera be required to have a kill switch installed? Apparently it’s called “OnStar”? I’ve heard that all new vehicles must have it so that for example in high speed chases law enforcement can put your car into a “limp mode.” I would really like for the Aptera to not have that. It’s just the government overstepping once again.

On the question you’re asking, they have now gotten the Italian firm’s feet wet with as much background as they have on the Beta’s setup and performance, and forwarded all Delta design/intent. So it’s apparently up to the Italians to supply a chassis assembly that will put this over the top. Since the BinC is tooled, said package will have to work with that. The challenge is to complete this, late in the game, with a package that has low reproductive cost. And yes, no matter what they do there will be further development testing required of the complete package. Keep in mind, as pointed out over the last year, that the normal progression is to do your “best shot” at a design, build mules containing first shots at the entire system, test the crap out of them in concert, evolve them, get factors of safety/margins everywhere, and THEN go tool it. It’s a logical progression. A real key point is that, as you actually design parts you have to have an understanding of how you will proto and manufacture them, and what they will cost. They’ve done “bits and pieces” and of course the skin cooling would be the first to die, because it’s unaffordable for this vehicle. The rear suspension was also an extravagance. Timeline wise, what they are doing right now should have been done while the BinC was being tooled, also as pointed out over the last 9 months. The 6/6 overview should tell you a lot. You need fully fleshed out PI’s with full test results before you can even guess about production. Again, they’re using the PI’s late in the game to do what the mules should have been doing since Beta. High risk.

Wheres my car?

I thought Roush did this already

My thought is that Aptera did suspension testing and had the suspension they wanted but when they went with a new company to do the suspension that company wanted to do it's own testing and come up with its own solutions. Not saying they didn't trust Aptera but different engineers have different ways of doing things. This way the suspension could evolve over time instead of being stuck in the original design.

This is the fourth shot at suspension work. I believe Aptera designed one first. Then Roush worked on the design. I believe that was the design tested by the original beta mule which, at the time, was going to be the basis for "Final" suspension adjustments. Then I think CDC took a turn at suspension. And now Densi Engineering. No detail on the impact of each of these organizations on suspension design. Makes sense to have Densi test since that is one of their fortes. A note from my past and current engineering experience with R&D for cars to include EVs. You build the final design of any component into a production prototype, in this case a P*, and then test the production vehicle. I am draconian about testing. I would not accept final suspension testing on the Beta Mule as it is not representative of the many changes that have been made, especially the body composition. Perhaps close enough and done to expedite schedule and control cost.

Been driving the prototypes since 2012, just now finishing suspension you are slow walking this company to bankruptcy. Elio 2

Prototypes are easy.

I'm to watch Aptera Updates because I'll learn another 12 months have added to the release date.

Finished, as in designed? Maybe, but they stated months ago they had not even had the work done on the castings needed to create the components for production. We know nothing exists because they would have had pictures as they are desperate to convince people something is actually happening and declarations of supplier orders are meaningless. I was very disappointed we had no pictures of that wiring work being done. So what is this additional body structure he is referencing? I understand chassis and suspension components are separate but are they referring to doors and glass? Who is doing the interior? Why haven't we seen pictures of Elaphe motors to be used on this PI? So is the first time we had indication Steve hired his wife? I am still laughing at how they are attempting to make the place look busy with random people behind presenters even if in Chris's video some of them looked confused as to what to actually do. As for hiring, given their glassdoor reviews they certainly lost people who think they are not a good place to work.

Aptera would do well to get a small serious development/manufacturing/production group to drive the Carlsbad effort out on that shop floor. Their endless stream of keyboard warriors is not going to cut it on the “git er done” front. Here’s hoping a race team mentality is going to show up soon. They have to stop dancing around this thing. CA & SF have to stop listening to themselves and turn the execution over to a Carroll Shelby-type. Southern California is a hot bed of energetic, skilled people capable of mounting a serious campaign to “build and win”. Small teams doing more in a 3 bay garage than the entire Aptera collection has done in that space over the last year. It’s not more people, it’s the right people. A handful of the right people can obliterate the accomplishments of a crowd of “a collection of resumes”.