IS Assault on Lothlorien OP??? 

I think the +1 to wound when outnumbering in combat should be changed to the animosity rule that other legions have. Gets it when an orc and goblin are engaged in the same combat.

Look at us both exposing Assault On Loth as complete frauds in our own special ways. Always got to be copying haven't you ;) Love you

Initially I was in the 'It's OP' camp, but the more I think about it, honestly the less I'm scared of it. It's really good, but there are definitely ways to beat it with a lot of armies I think, especially if your opponent's dice rolling isn't consistently good. I feel like I could even take the list it's sort of meant to counter in Lothlorien and do fairly decently against it if things broke my way a bit. Opinion might change once I've had a chance to properly face it though, of course, just my initial impression.

My complaint with AOLL is it's a LL in a book called Defence of the North, not Attack in the North, or War in the North... Where is the Lothlorien LL? And how does a list of shitty Orcs have better shooting than an Elven list... I have a suspicion Games Workshop doesn't like Elves... Though i am inexperienced with the game so i probably don't know what i am talking about.

Yes or no answer? Yes. The build of max bows, lots of throwing weapons, and just kiteing is doing SO much work on podiums around the world. Even the 'back up' way to play it with the wizards pumping out invisible fury spiders backed up by lots of prowlers and warriors for trapping (and still enough shooting to harm the opponent from 18 inches) is pretty damn good. More beatable for sure, but still pumps out wins.

"Makes you change the way you play the game"... absolutely. People don't like that. I feel like the LL was designed to rival armies with big heroes and small numbers of elite warriors. I mean, it's kind of in the name. Granted, I've only played against it once, but I thought it was a fun game. I don't mind whatever people play, just paint it.

Y'all preaching, 100% agree Dragon Emperor > AoL... Somehow that's controversial 🤷🏻‍♂️ -Richard

The only reason I don't like it is because there's not a "Defense" of Lothlorien LL to go with it 🤣

We have a local goblin player with the most fucked dice I've seen so I wouldn't like to face him with this list (usually hits 2/3 of his shots with goblins). If your dice are hot that shooting can be really oppressive. I've not faced this before but it seems really unenjoyable to face, like your opponent is not going to have a good time, kind of like angmar in that regard I suppose.

Me and my friend went to our first tourney a few months ago which was a doubles tourney. We took the return of the king LL, our first two games were really fun and we had a great time. last game we played against this legion, conquest of champions, it shot aragorn of the board in one turn of shooting even tho he was behind a wall of dead. prowlers wounding the dead on 3+ nah that should not be, it was horrible and its left a bitter taste in our mouths ever since.

I just got destroyed by this in a tournament, but mostly a mix of me rolling trash every combat early on losing my hitting power and just having nothing left to fight with but also the player i was against was a lot more skilled than me. The only thing i think should be changed would be the re roll on failed magic casts and maybe a tweak on the plus 1 to wound when outnumbering.

I'd love to play against this with Theodred's Guard. Oh I can't shoot beyond 12 inches, laughs in 8 inch throwing spears. Oh what's that a +1 to wound with all shooting and your main troops are lower fight and move than me. Also nice low defence spider you got there, be a shame if everyone just ignored your terror. Then again Ranger of Mirkwood can just go home with the Dunedain. Ghosts would have a fun game though.

Also guys, just came back from my very first tournament going 4/2 and finishing 30th out of 106. I took a lot of guidance from your moria tier list video so big thanks. 800 points with cave drake, dweller, groblog, durburz, druhzag, 2 spiders, 2 bat swarms, 10 prowlers, 6 bow goblin, 9 shield goblin, 7 spear goblin and a black shield drummer.

I had to stop listening after awhile. You be you, but the number of times I heard the F word was caustic to me.

Great video guys! Some interesting points, fun to see such a contentious legion for both sides of the argument. Played against this at LVO and was my only loss. Newer player here but I do come from other war games like Age of Sigmar and Ice & Fire so not as put off as most maybe. Like in my local circle, I hear Riders of Rohan is OP hahah. (Scary for new players maybe but definitely not OP once you have played against it) Looking through all the stuff as starting the game though outside of knee jerk reaction, It is strong. I think the big problematic bit is its a very much and then type force.... You look at a lot of other legions out there and its like ah okay here is one two rules that will make them do what they do. This one though is We get this (Darkness) So shooting improvement whether goblin bows or good or not. Thrown weapons still nasty under this, and army does get a benefit from this. Makes their creatures alot safer to fire too having that 10" move on Spiders/Wargs means fewer turns under fire (mostlikely). Okay that is fine cool. But then, oh magic gets free rerolls as well. So now they also get more reliable wizards and such. Okay.... But then, Oh and we get +1 to wound when outnumbering (in a force that already will usually outnumber most opponents) So in one legion, they get benefits to Magic, Shooting, and Melee. And a larger choice of units to pick from than other legions. So all in all a Legendary Legion that has so many upsides with every little cons in it. Does this make it stronger than a lot of other legions? Yes. Stronger but not unbeatable. But it could probably use a few edges getting rounded off to bring it more into line with the rest of the game.

Maybe a good idea to say how you'd go about beating it. That way you can say 'Look, see? Not OP'. It's just strong against a lot of things, which...well, is that good? I'm not so sure.

I took this to a 44 player event never played it before and came 14th, it is a strong list even with the newer limits

Good stuff

i've versed it 3 times. beat it the first time with gondor. lost to it the second time my elves (on channel) but imo it was a close game that could have gone either way. I lost in my 3rd game using the necromancer. at no point do i think it was OP. I agree with you both that the bears are OP. you can't do anything to them. the goblins die though, and the heroes are weak. there is counterplay to this army, therefore not OP.

I played against this legion in a double tournament against some prepared players. I think that has a very solid gaming, but It's not unbeatable.

What do you guys think is coming next for MESBG? My guess would be Last Alliance content.

The fact you said, a newcomer won't do well with this list, is what leans me away from being OP. It has its weaknesses (although not much) but is beatable, and I've not seen it actually winning many tournaments

The first 3 minutes is the most based argument I’ve heard come out of Liam’s mouth. When he’s not talking nonsense, the man has some solid points!

Fucking hell, Sean. Now I'm starving!

Hey champions, what is the best points limit or range to play this army?

Assault on Lothlorien is OP and needs a Nerf. In Germany almost everybody says that. Even the AOL players admit that it is OP 😂

Not OP. Where's your hard hitting combat heroes?

That's it I'm getting a kebab bra