In the Doctor Who universe, Cyberman conversion is a very real danger. In this episode, we ask the question, Is Becoming A Cyberman The Scariest Thing Ever?
This is precisely the reason I find the Cybermen to be Doctor Who’s most compelling villain. And actually, they’re kind of not villains, as they view themselves as a force of good for bettering humanity.
I'd somewhat disagree on the whole "force for good" thing. Most of the time, the Cybermen upgrade other lifeforms for the Cybermen's benefit, not the converted victims. They upgrade because they can't naturally reproduce themselves. Although the Cybus Cybermen initially desired to upgrade humans to end their suffering "in the skin", they eventually declared all-out war on their parallel Earth when nobody willingly accepted conversion. Then when this failed, they attempted an invasion of the Earth of the Doctor's universe instead. Beyond this, almost all other Cybermen upgrade people by force, to propagate the Cyber-race over all others. In particular, the Cybermen of Killing Ground enslaved a human colony planet as a Cyberman breeding facility, forcing the planet's people to fill out birthing quotas so that the Cybermen had a steady conversion stock in their war with the Vogans. Elsewhere, the Cybermen of UNIT: Cyber-Reality are a multidimensional warrior race, constantly expanding into other universes in a campaign to upgrade all of creation. They effectively commit mass genocide across countless universes. On the one hand, I guess they kinda do see themselves as bettering humanity? But when you consider just what they do, it's in an array of messed up ways.
@@radioactivecheesenowinnucl4746 To be fair, they do have to upgrade by force when people are actively resisting it. It also makes sense that they’d need to convert more people, more quickly when at war. So their methods and motives for conversion do change sometimes to fit circumstances.
I kind of agree with the "force for good" idea. The Cybermen eliminate sources of petty human infighting and tribalism, there is no racism in Cybermen because there is no race, there is no sexism because there is no sex or gender identity, there is no homophobia, xenophobia, allegiance to homeland or flag, the Cybermen are a perfect union, but by removing all but their most necessary instincts, they fail to see the irony when they act with such tribalism towards the unconverted.
I find becoming one of those Empty Child things far more terrifying. The transformation, the rewritten humans crying out for their mothers, and just a single touch from one could start everything. It gave me nightmares and still does.
Imagine being chopped in half, neck torn, limbs removed, entrails severed only to be stuffed in a suit ready for you to only for you to be along for the journey as the suit moves on a base of set laws
The thing that I find so scary about the Cybermen is that they cannot really be reasoned with. Their minds are made up and they will do what they think is best. They will do what they think is best for you, even if you don’t agree. They are strong and immovable in their convictions. If you are in a room with a Cybermen then your fate is already sealed.
@@drfrankensteinscreations An interesting moment was shown in this crossover. These two groups could not work together, because despite a number of similarities, their essence is completely different. As are the final goals. The goal of Borg is perfection through knowledge. The goals of the Cybermen are survival through control. The Borg were not against “Mutually assimilate each other”, it was correct from their point of view - I become you, you become me, and now we are one. The Cybermen were only interested in the resources of the Collective.
Brilliant essay, and the suggestion of the lingering teardrop as a show of callous mockery towards those human emotions being wiped out is quite incisive.
@@TheChosenChimpThe cybus cybermen in the age of steel two parter are the most relevant as what has caused their dehumanisation over many years are the ear pods which tell them jokes etc which conditioned them to march to a conversion factory. The body horror in that serial is deeply relevant.
You have a point there about the budget. Those first Cybermen look like they are wearing ski masks, 70s foil "weight loss" track suits, 70s stereo headphones combined with a Coleman Lantern, an air conditioner on their chest, and their roommate has glued wiffle balls to them while they were passed out. Those Mondasian parties must get crazy!
@@damian9303 imagine being BDSMed without consent to such AN extent you confuse pain with pleasure. The best way to not do so is to become like us. Join us or be deleted -this post was uploaded by the cybermen
@@lewisbooth3917 The wooden acting, i was totally for him as a character (the cute first episode when he thought he embarrassed himself) but i never liked how he are clara ARGUED all the time. "i have to tell ya... i love you Danny"... bruh why? He turned the impossible girl into a dewey eyed wet blanket, at least in the past when there was love interests the girls kept there personality. She put Danny, a bloke she dated for a few months over the Dr she saved a thousand lifetimes over , someone she knew could save millions of lives in his lifetime? (Tardis keys) At least Rory stood up to the challenge, "should i repeat the question?".
@@lewisbooth3917 Yeah i straight up stopped watching Jodies season after 1 episode, i have watched religiously since 2005 but i know a car crash when i see one. And yes he was very wooden, i have a degree in drama, there was no difference from him as a cyberman from when he was a human lol.
If it's this version robotsupremacy.fandom.com/wiki/Jules_Hedgehog then yes because you keep your humanity but if it's some weird bootlegged looking loss of humanity thing then someone find a cliff for me a push
I think its terrifying regardless, since the conversion process is always painful and always strips you of human emotion. They're also always in constant excruciating pain after being converted, they just can't feel it normally because their emotions and pain receptors are normally forced off. Theres a reason that most cybermen whose emotions are restored kill themselves.
I felt so bad for bill when he became a cyberman her biggest fear was losing control and not being able o be who she is and that exactly what happened to her So many companions lost everything because of there biggest fears Rose went to such extremes because she felt trapped and useless and a season later she gets trapped on another dimension away from the doctor Donna didn't want to go back to her old life which is what ended up happening Amy was terrified of the weeping angels and that's what got her Clara lost everyone she loved (Danny/the doctor) And the example of bill iv already given
The cybermen are my favourite monsters for a number of reasons, but they never scared me quite as much as the Seeds of Doom. The human to krynoid transformations in that story are still chilling to watch. Perhaps the fact that they didn't become a recurring feature helps add to that, either way, sorry to the chaps in silver, this UNIT's gone green :D
Getting assimilated by the Borg(Plagerism) is bad but you won’t feel it. But the Conversion/Upgrade is painful and anesthesia is not available. Look at the mighty Gustav Lytton. He was going through a fate worse then death and it couldn’t happen to a better person.
While the upgrade itself might be painful (it depends on the upgrade method, in Age of steel, they put the people under the control of the earpieces, so they didn't feel anything during the upgrade itself), being upgraded doesn't make you feel anything, just like the Borg. The Cybermen erase the pain, they erase all feelings, emotions, there's only uniformity and the main goal - UPGRADE more, UPGRADE the HUMANITY! The Borg inspired themselves pretty well. With Bill, well she underwent a slow conversion over time, so there was some pain, I guess (since we haven't seen her suffer anyhow), but that's also just one of the methods. With Cyberarmies on their mission, I doubt they could afford to slowly convert people, more like Cybus Industries, with their quick upgrade chambers, not sure about earpieces though.
What I find alluring about them is that they act like regular Doctor Who villains - they fall through time, travel through voids, hibernate in hives, build spaceships and invade planets, it's like they're some alien race, but they're not. They're us. The idea that Pete's world Cyberman evolved so fast they could travel through space is amazing. Just 3 years ago they were like McDonald's employees and rich socialites. And then they just gladly fuse with these other cybermen they find, erasing anything that set them apart, and becoming one. Once you remove your memories nothing like this can phase you.
There’s a whole section in the VNA novel, “Iceberg” that goes into horrendous detail about cyber conversion. The BBC novel “Illegal Alien” doesn’t sugar coat it, either!
This brings me memories. When I was a kid I used to have goosebums thanks to robots cartoons like Sonic Satam or Pinocchio 3000. That kind of tv shows with... "warnings from the Future " conduced me to think one day the human being will be tired of be flesh and bones, and eventually become a machine with the scientific intervention . So, to be trasfomed into a robot became like a conspiration teory at that age to me xd
Long story short, like any transition of consciousness, its a lot easier than the terror lets on. With human electronic augmentation literally coming out of the beta-testing stages, (we actually do have human brain cell cpu's presently) its been a good litmus test on how the species will handle actual cybernetic augmentation.
Wow... terrific video, mate! Very compelling and just the right length of time. I ever I'm trying to convince someone to watch Doctor Who for the first time, I think your vid would be a great Amuse Bouche. ❤
Very nice piece, it is interesting to hear the articulations of the Cybermen in this expressive video. Quite ironic, the expanded media of the Cybermen is fascinating especially in DW comic The World Shapers where the Cybermen would evolve again within 5 million years time from where the story takes place. They would become beings of pure thought, becoming the most peace-loving and advanced race in the universe and bring a new era of understanding. Now as ludicrous as this sound on first glance it does pose a unique scenario and stimulating discussion. Successful cybermen end game scenarios progress with a foot hold in their universe which no other space power (multiple planetary alliance), extra dimensional force (Timelords for example) or narrative driven characters can stop them. Only a matter of time until they totally take over, examples of this are Real Time and Code Silver when those 3 factors don’t effect them until the Doctor comes along which comes under ndc. Most of the time it doesn’t come down to this as by nearly all accounts of them they are foiled by the ndc but the interesting fact of the cybermen is their ability to adapt and evolve. A trait carried over from their previous organic life, with their brains being altered to reject all emotions only replaced with cold logic. The combination of soulless survival and logical thinking instills a superiority complex, a drive to spread their better views and convert. But capable of adapting to different strategies or modifications in order to survive.The main point I’m talking about is they have changed their tactics before from trying to invade earth into destroying it as humanity always resists. Now factoring the 3 elements previously said and seeing them changed into a peace-loving race is not far off.
I'd like to believe that certain strong willed and stubborn individuals could fight off the programming much akin to how alex murphey in robocop overcomes his programming, I mean like they say in the robocop movies if they wanted purely a machine why did they stick a human brain in there?
Scary, yes but Noah's transformation into a Wirrn in Ark in Space was terrifying. Yes, I admit I was scared of the bubble wrap monster. Only one degree of separation from my favourite Cyberman story. VOGA WILL BE FRAGMENTIZED!
You look back at the earliest episode that they appeared in, the hive situation. Then you look at what they are, you have to draw comparisons withThe Borg from Star Trek TNG.
I mean Moffat tells us we just need a puddle girlfriend or love someone a lot to survive being upgraded. So, not really that scary any more. He’s watered them down dramatically. Bit like how extermination isn’t even a threat any more as you can just teleport away with a vortex manipulator and the doctors sonic.
If I wrote cybermen I would try to use them like the classic series,they don't reveal themselves instead puppeting others while taking people for conversion
@@crimsondynamo615 killed the threat of the Daleks, cybermen, the master, the silence, the zygons, the Silurians, the sontarans, the ice warriors, etc. etc. every single villain he gets his hands on seems to either get watered down to a complete non threat or they simply just become allies to the Doctor.
Actually no because at least you have a emotional inhibitor which stops you from feeling anything meanwhilst becoming part of something such as the flood is so much worse since your memories are stored as apart of a gravemind and your always put in immense pain in order to give the gravemind information. You also probably feel the little flood infection forms crawling around your body and biting into your flesh.
yup im reminded of one episode where the inhibitor was destroied on one them complaining about being cold was rather chilling in its own right as is the fact they basicly self terminate in horror without the inhibitor as well in normal operation some with strong will or emotions like love have managed to not do this.
did the cyberwoman episode of Torchwood do anything to explain that the cybermen are cyborgs. I watched it with my brother and it did explain what the cyber conversion process was which was a great help to me as it was not talked about that much after they was brought back. me and my brother was born in 1996 so we didn't see the original cybermen
i just thought of this but are the cybermen like the daleks like how they can see hear and even feel at times but there restrained by there new mechanical bodies but instead of having more control like the daleks there just controlled by a AI and what they can do is watch and hear
what kind of hearing would Lisa have had after being partially converted into a cyberman in Torchwood? her sense of hearing wasn't talked about in the episode but it must have good otherwise she wouldn't have been able to talk with Captain Jack
As a kid watching from the 2005 reboot I don't think I was ever really effected by the notion of body horror. It was the warping of your own mind and soul that scared me. Being rewired so as to be able to kill your own friends and family at command, as easly as deleting files on a computer.
@@OscarOSullivan Sort of? The process of "upgrading" was hardly subtle. They'd have been just off-screen, screaming their lungs out while buzzsaws and lazers chipped their flesh away.
The original Cyberman invented by Kit Pedler was the proto-cyberpunk concept of the soul being lost as it it linked to the body and mind being replaced by machinery and computer 'guidance'. 'Social' media does this to people, just not to their bodies: records everything, sorts and organises everything, we pay for this process to take place, then we are led and ruled by computer algorithms to service the dictates of those programmes. When the programmes write and modify themselves, we even have the Cybermens' 'cyber-planner', the leader being a wholly electronic system, without anyone involved in it.
@@erosion271 It's more all the skin on display. It would've been better if Lisa's skin was rotting, or even falling off. Imagine her body being practically dead, yet Ianto's still treating her as if she's normal. That would be wonderfully dark and fitting for the story being told. Instead, she looks more like a normal person in a metal bikini. Like something off of Cybus Industry's sexy calander shoot. The story and acting and writing is perfect for a dark Cyberman storyline, but that design just ruins everything.
: I think becoming a Dalek is the most terrifying thing. All of those humans kidnapped and converted by the "God of the Daleks". Don't get me wrong. Cyber-conversation is awful and may well be the second most awful thing in DW.
I would really have loved if the writers of doctor who went fully into the constantly changing cybermen design by making the cyberman a common evolution of humanoid races like how crustacians evolve into crabs, humanoids get turned into cybermen with the silver body, blank face, and handle bars. I guess it slightly hinted at by the cybus reboot of the cybermen, but that is an alternate universe and the whole alternate universe trope is everything is the same except for a few minor changes so cybermen being created in a different time period with the same design isnt some huge evidence to this being the case. As cool as it was to see the creation of the mondasian cybermen, it really kills this cool theory as the mondasian cybermen were created by the master with the cyber design in mind
The Master didn't create the Mondasian Cybermen; he just helped to create a subset on a Mondasian colony ship. The Cybermen were already being created on Mondas if they weren't already independently of him. The Doctor in that very two-parter shuts down the idea that he created them, saying that yes- the Cybermen can show up wherever humans are, if humans aren't careful. The Master going back in time and finding himself in a position to create some Cybermen is different from him inventing them from the very start- he encountered them first, then he decided to make his own.
@@jonathancampbell5231 Ok, so i guess it doesnt fully kill the idea that cybermen are an evolutionary constant. Although i still wish the cybermen were written with this in mind
I wish a doctor who audio story or episode went into graphic detail of what happens to someone during a conversion and how DARN CRAP it feels to be the unlucky guy/gal getting converted. If there are any out there lemme know pls. I’m a morbid person who likes cerebral and dark stuff haha 😂
I'd recommend these also if you like morbid who stories I would also listen to Spare parts (real origin) 5th audio The reaping 6th Audio with Peri ( best if nothing is said.) The Harvest 7th audio with Ace, cyberman trying to remove it's upgrades. Davros 6th audio( you really get under his skin in full grotesque way) The Juggernauts 6th audio( which is messed up in it's own weird way) Master 7th audio, wasn't a fan of it's idea into the doctor and masters past ( better than what the new series tried anyway) but it's easily one of the darkest stories Edit: If you want an 8th story I would go for Terror Firma (schizophrenic Davros).
I think it's pretty same. As a Borg, you may be still around, but in the background, yet you won't feel anything, you're a drone following orders as effectively as possible. Cybermen are pretty much the same, only you are still you, or what's left of you anyway, but the inhibitor chip supresses your feelings, you do, what you're told and you do it as effectively as possible. See it's quite similar stuff. The Borg were clearly inspired by Doctor Who in most ways of the Cybermen.
Borg have the slight advantage that a person can be rescued, released from their control and try and put their life back together. If a Cyberman is just your head in a robot body, there's no chance of anything close to a normal life possible even if you were released from Cyber control.
The scary thing about Cybermen for me is the bodyhorror aspect. I wouldn't mind eliminating useless constructs like race, gender, or even species, but I'd rather not have my brain cut out and conductive needles inserted into my optic nerves and spinal cord in order to interface with my new peripherals. Interestingly, Chibs actually understood this very well in the Torchwood episode Cyberwoman, showing battered and bloodied bodies of failed conversions, but then he ruined it all by having the eponymous Cyberwoman, a partially converted Cyberman herself, be sexy so that we the audience could understand why her boyfriend was trying to save her (and not anything else like him loving her no matter her appearance).
I will answer the question to the title of this video, YES! Humanity lost and a game over screen, but the TimeLord Cybermen have to ability to regenerate now yay👍🤣. I rather be a Dalek like Clara because the Cybermen always lose to the Daleks all the time👍✌️❤️.
Or christian culture. No other beliefs, no other sexuality, no original identity outside the norm or you will be subject of mockery, of agressions, of murder...but damn those pc people that doesn't let people be straight church-going cis and cast aside anyone that's even slightly different anymore.
@@philipstokes2824 In what way is it very well? Which "EU retained laws"? We've left the EU, we only have our own laws now. I thought that was what you voted for? Are you confused? As for the ECHR, that was set up by the UK originally, you want to rid yourself of a layer of legal protection for yourself and everyone else who voted Brexit, just because it gets removed from other people that you think should not be here in the first place? Isn't that what they call "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? That's a bit like wanting a takeaway pizza but not having enough money to pay for one - so you go and set fire to the pizza shop so nobody else can have one either. Are you one of these "Einsteins" that voted for it just to p*ss off everyone else happier than you or just doing better in life than you are? We're out now, and you still cannot name ONE benefit that we have NOW because of you voting to make yourselves poorer and turn us into the first country ever to impose economic sanctions on itself. Well done, you r*c*st halfwit.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 well Mr high and mighty traitorous quisling I was going to take you seriously until you finished with your alleged slur on my character without even a reasoned argument. If your p1553d off and gutted so much the better that alone is one benefit. Pro haebius corpus versus corpus versus, quantum errat demunstrandum.
