Is Chris Paul the Third-Best Point Guard of All Time? | Bill Simmons's Book of Basketball 2.0 

He still played for an amazing team with the Clips. I do agree but damn he still had chances.

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@@CassCream An amazing team is not the same as playing with another superstar

@@CassCream other players had better chances, its why he lost

Stockton is like towards the bottom of top 10 PGs.

Curry isn't really a traditional PG

@@MrArjunchoudhary Fair point. At least in the most traditional sense. To that argument Chris Paul might be the most traditional point guard ever. Elite threat to score. Elite threat to playmake for others. He's not taller than average like Magic. He's not a freakish perimeter player like Curry. He's not out of balance in terms of scoring versus creating. He's really uniquely the model point guard. Hard to make an argument for any other in this regard - only Stockton and I. Thomas could compare, right? And even Thomas was probably more of a scorer than he was a creator for others wasn't he?

@@charliebaker7936 true but he was more of a interior playmaker and scorer. I think curries three point shooting keeps him from doing a lot of the traditional PG type things inside. My favorite of all time was Nash. Loved the way he operated inside to get the defence shifting. He was also a great shooter, probably should have shot more tbh.

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I'll take Malika Andrews and Maria Taylor 😁

@@BingeworthyContent no lol

@@BingeworthyContent mmmm facts

Jalen and Jacoby also on mount rushmore

I never pass up an opportunity to hear Ryan and Bill talk hoops

Yeah I found that odd too. Even CP3 says that Stockton is his motivation.

If you actually watched him play you would know why. Stockton wouldnt be a top 3 pg right now in the league.

Overrated pg

At no point on John Stockton career did he ever finish in the top 7 in MVP voting. What does that mean? What it means is that there was never any point in Stockton's career where he was truly considered one of the very best players(top 5) in the entire league. Nash, Paul and Kidd all have multiple seasons of finishing in the top 3 of MVP voting. I think all three are better than John Stockton. Stockton's career records are mainly due to a long career with the 2nd leading scorer of all time

Because all he had to do was dump it into the post to one of the best post up scorers in a post up scoring designed league.

Magic Curry Thomas Stockton Kidd

@@brandonhagin7108 what about Oscar?

@@brandonhagin7108 Nash over Kidd

It's like what Tiny Archibald said, "People say 'Magic was a guard', but Magic, like Bird, was anything he wanted to be."

Stockton is right behind Magic and Isiah due to getting to finals 2x vs the GOAT, and finishing with most assists and steals All-Time. I mean...having to face Jordan 2x in a row is damned near as good as beating _everyone else once._ Then Kidd who led the Nets to Finals twice in his prime and started on the '11 Mavs. I give CP3 the edge over Nash for his defense; Nash never cleared 1.0 steal/gm in his entire career. Curry's a combo guard since hitting perimeter shots is his main task in the Dubs' system, and it's all he's ever played in the NBA. It works to his benefit w/ getting rings, but also to his detriment in comparisons like the one here.

Steph was on a deep team ...he's not better

@@user-gc1wj8tt2p 2015 they faced a finals who had MATTHEW DELEVADOVA as the second best player due to Irving and loves industry...Stephen has NEVER won a finals mvp and is woefully historically inadequate in clutch moments

@@user-gc1wj8tt2p and the best player Paul played with was either "the dribbler" harden or "I dunked over a kia" griffin

Steph is terrible on D. Lol Steph shoots from 3 better that's all Steph does better. CP3 is better at Perimeter defense, post defense, help defense, mid range shooting, passing, rebounding, floor general, I could keep going but you get the point. Lol

@Jason Daley prime Steph is about 3x better than Magic let alone CP3’s bum ass relax

I think they were going for high assist point guards maybe that's why he wasn't mentioned

@@TheHoppter yea maybe

I would compare... Yo mama!!! 🤭

Lmao!! Same

Best? Idk rondo at his best may have been a better pg that Paul

No shame at all, i was in my teens and from New Orleans and that debate was closer than both of them are making it out to be. Deron fell off hard af but he used to get the better of CP often.

@@daleychips7463 fax

@@t-god2439 there hasn’t been a year in either of their careers where Rondo was better so logically that’s impossible. Rondo is underrated because he was almost a 4th option on a championship team but he’s way better than that. But even in Rondos best career season he was around the 6th best PG with guys like Paul, Rose, Williams all having the better seasons with Paul usually the best. Let’s not do some revisionist history nonsense. We were there wasn’t that long ago

🤔 kidd? Gary payton ?

@The Ultimate Jerry West is like 1-7 in the finals, Curry a top 3 PG

@The Ultimate yea but when you’re talking about whose the best at a position legacy and winning plays a huge role but obviously not the largest, Curry is also a better scorer being incredibly efficient while doing it and winning 3 rings. They also have the same assist numbers while Curry played WAY less minutes and has 2 MVPs, and changed basketball in the process. Did you even watch Jerry West play??

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@The Ultimate Jerry West was well before my time and spent many of his best seasons as the 2 on his team. I honestly thought he was a sg. But yes when we’re talking historically winning matters cause it all plays into the legacy and that’s important on an all time list. It’s not the only factor but it is one of them

They were better than CP3 and most people would consider Jerry West as a SG.

They're both considered shooting guards

Idk if you can compare Point Guards in 1965 to 2005

West played PG the later part of his career, led the league in assists one year...I personally consider him a SG, but no excuse for leaving the Big O out of this discussion as well as Steph and Stockton

Oscar Roberson is not better than chris Paul. Cp3 is a better playmaker, passer, and shooter; and his stats prove this

He’s overrated. Doesn’t belong in the conversation

@@Yaboi1893 Stockton was on the dream team and grinded to make back to back finals with the franchise that drafted him, losing to MJ’s Bulls. If anything he’s underrated.

Lol! Just the nba all time assist and steal leader by far!!! Stockton is clearly in the top 3 Less turnover and a better ft and 3pt shooter than all these other dudes!

@@samgryn7829 never top 7 in MVP voting. He was never considered a top 7 player in the league at any point of his career. He only has longevity stats. No MVP, no title.

​@@ChefSwooby he led the league in assists and steals for a decade (each season) those arent longevity stats. He shot over 50% from the field as an unathletic 6'1 guard. Also, longevity is important (e.g. bill walton in 1978 was better than hakeem ever was, but nobody would say walton was a better player)

Curry.

@@ChefSwooby Curry plays much more like a SG. Green is their point forward.

@@Dwade32 not denying that, but he is listed as a PG and will go down in history as a PG. Clearly more deserving of a mention in greatest point guard conversations than Stockton who never finished top 7 in MVP voting in his life.

Stockton I think had the issue that he played the position the way most played it, and did very well at that, but these days people expect PGs to have a lot more personal offensive production

Stockton has no Left. Check it out on RU-vid and you’ll understand why he doesn’t belong in this conversation.

Yeah no love for Stockton at all.

You realize this arguement goes both ways right? Malone benefited from Stockton feeding him the ball too

Yeah, Stockton has nothing to do with facilitating tremendously easy baskets and being the floor general to organize open post-ups for Malone.

you need to watch more of his games than highlights, legends like Jordan and Payton hated playing against Stockton and there’s a reason to that

Jason Kidd is better as well. He carried the Nets to the finals and won a title with the Mavs. He could also rebound

@@datguitarplayer1656 stop talking basketball

@@datguitarplayer1656 He's just the most talked about point guard, with nothing to show for. Probably because he's friends with Lebron and because of his work in the Players Union. He's a great player, but he's also the most overrated player in Nba History.

I honestly think they’re gonna challenge for the #2 seed. Ayton is like a baby Olajuwon in the making. Booker is ready for ascension and he has the balls to handle the big moments. Chris Paul and Jae Crowder are the perfect vets to put with them. They’re bringing back Bridges, Cam Johnson, Dario Saric, Jevon Carter and Cam Payne. They bring in E’twuan Moore, Langston Galloway, and Damian Jones to round out the bench. Kendrick Perkins picked them to be the biggest threat to the Lakers.

3rd option? CP3 is the best player on the team lol

@@ganeshs8522 he’s not gonna get more shots than booker

@@culbinator lmao, Pheonix is where great point guards go to age well

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Stockton could not score. It’s that simple

@@aubhreypender3091 a point guard's #1 job isnt to score, despite what russell westbrook might tell you. stockton also averaged 15 points for 10+ seasons, not bad at all for a pg who spent most of his time passing.

@@golfinguru11 but could you give Stockton the ball and trust him to take over a game? No. At the end of the day the most important aspect of basketball is putting the ball in the hoop. Chris Paul, magic, and Isaiah could all carry their team at the end of the game as scorers. There is a time to pass and a time to be aggresive. Stockton did not have the skill set to do what they could do. They were all better players.

Stockton was never the best point guard in the league. Not once in his nearly 20 year career. He was a solid and durable PG.

@@aubhreypender3091 chris paul absolutely failed in carrying his team repeatedly. If scoring is all that matters, russell westbrook is better than magic johnson. Also, he could definitely take over the game at the end, go watch game 6 of the 96 eastern conference finals...one of the most clutch performances of all time ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-be-EEL7FfQM.html

top 5

@@ethanrobinson9475 it’s close. But look at some names of the top of the list: magic , Isiah , Stockton, Kidd , Nash. It also depends if you see curry as a pg

@@logosg curry is a pg. imo CP3 still top 5 no question in my eyes. but it is debatable. Nash and Kidd aren't better than cp3. I dont think Stockton was either.

@@ethanrobinson9475 LOL. Fair enough. He is an excellent PG

Curry’s better

Cp3 had just as much help as isiah did, isiah was just a better leader and clutch player so plz don’t bring up better teams. Isiah himself said cp3 plays it too safe in the clutch cuz he worries about his stats. And nash has more mvps and had more team success as the head guy than Paul in the same conference. Nash made 3 conference finals appearances and Paul couldn’t make 1? Stop making excuses for him

@@indmslikedeez8005 It's legit delusional to say those Clippers teams were anywhere near as good as the Pistons from 88-90.

Wall was a better defender.

@@NicolasAlcalde nah. Wall was good.. but he only had a couple of years as an elite defender, and even at his best, CP was better.

If you take Isiah off of the Pistons and substitute Chris Paul in would the Pistons have beat the Bulls with Jordan, the Celtics with Bird-Parish-McHale-DJ, or the Lakers with Magic-Kareem-Worthy? No. Chris Paul might be better at basketball than Isiah Thomas (a better defender and shooter without question), but Isiah was one of the rare special players the league had ever seen that could take over a game. Not just scoring wise, but with his attitude. He was the perfect leader of those Bad Boys Pistons. He would literally do or say whatever it took to win... Paul does not have that in him it seems. Still great, but not in the class of Magic or Isiah or Stockton.

You think Tony Parker is a top 3 all time point guard? 😂 dude was never even the best player on his own team haha

@@pstratos7 that's because you're not a Spurs fan. Tony was definitely the best on his team from 2011 to 2015

@@slamdunk2270 I think you’ve shown your hand my friend. Besides, he made 0 all nba 1st teams, don’t think he should be considered greatest of all time if he was never considered greatest at his position for even 1 season

@@pstratos7someone forget that finals mvp for t.p.?

@@urstruly6839 Was iguodala the best player on his team when he won finals mvp? Didn’t think so

100% Magic->Stockton->Thomas

Stockton couldn’t score well

He averaged as high as 17 PPG. And he could have easily scored more if he wasn't such an unselfish PG (applies to Kidd also).

How many players in nba history have 2 mvps and 3 titles? My guess is no more than 5

@@TheShachattack13 true but let's be real if KD doesn't go there its possible he only has 1 ring

He's already up there. 2nd best pg in my eyes.

Jordan,Kareem, bron, magic, bird, and probably some old school guys like bill Russell so a bit more than 5 but it’s a short list for sure

@@elbowgang9715 if Kyrie wasn't injured he may never have won

Stockton?! Curry far more deserving of a mention.

@@ChefSwooby Curry's not even a true PG.

@@PaulBenjaminJenkins still listed as a PG. will go down in history as a PG no?

@@PaulBenjaminJenkins Because he can score 30 ppg? Only the world's stupidest coach would not encourage the game's greatest shooter not to use all his best weapons.

Steph is overrated lol you can’t be top 3 at your position while being a liability on half of the floor Cp3 almost beat him when he had harden n steph had 3 hof team mates

@@uchennakpaduwa9592 Curry ain't no defensive liability, that's a casual remark, and his offensive arsenal and gravitas is historical and makes his teams much better for it. Chris Paul ain't drawing 3 dudes and creating mismatches all the time due to the fear and pressure he puts on opposing defenses.

@@uchennakpaduwa9592 Steph is the greatest shooter of all time, 3 rings, 2 MVP's (1 one of which was unanimous), revolutionized the sport, and was a plus defender (check the stats). Nice try though.

@@uchennakpaduwa9592 Magic and Isiah weren’t that good at defense either.

@@sorchigo I don't think he's overrated and he did revolutionize the game but I don't think you can put him over Isiah. Curry has no finals MVPs and had the most stacked team in history for two of his rings. He's the best shooter of all time but I still think he falls behind Magic and Isiah in PG rankings.

Great point. I'd much rather have Steph and Steph basically warped the NBA to try and mimic his play style because of how wildly successful he was. Maybe the argument is that Steph isn't really a pure point god and plays more like a two but otherwise Steph is just better. CP3 never won an MVP or a chip. Case closed.

I think it’s because Curry isn’t a “pure point guard” like Nash Paul and IT. It’s a silly argument but I agree, curry is probably the best PG all time

@@MrMikkkkkkkk Steph is not better than Magic

Steph curry is only a “pg” in the sense that he is small and that’s what they pencil him in as in the score book. Draymond acts as their PG (kind of) and lead the team in assist since 2015. Steph doesn’t set the table and tempo for the team. That is Green’s responsibility. Steph is much more impactful as a player than Paul could ever be. Steph changed the game! But as a pure pg he doesn’t come close to Paul.

Quantum Communities but championship is a team award and steve nash has two mvps and Cp3 is way better than him

That's a nice line. Wish basketball were 1v1 to make it work better tho

he always gets snubbed by guys that have never played in the NBA. but players like gary payton will say stockton is the best

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It is odd they didn't mention Stockton at all, as he's probably better than Nash/Kidd, but I think a lot of folks who watched Magic and Isiah in the 80s will agree with those two being 1 and 2. Stats don't do them justice and really does come down to eye test and intangibles of what they did as leaders and competitors to carry their teams to titles.

W

U left off westbrook? Lmao pure hate

@@ganeshs8522 Damn Westbrook is my favorite player smh.

W

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I don't think this is part of the pod

I agree to the extent that he should be mentioned, but lets cool it on John Stockton

I understand and like this take but buddy I'm going to tell you the truth about why no one puts respeck his name: 1. Playing with Malone who is a top 25 player makes ppl discount him(wrongly) 1.5: Malone is a bad dude and by association ppl don't talk about stock 2: playing in Utah, ppl don't give you the credit you deserve 3. Played in the Jordan era, a lot of great players get forgotten because of it 4. His game was fundamental and not sexy. PGs are the main attraction in today's nba and ppl don't like watching fundamental players(sad) Its a crime that stock doesn't get the shine he deserves, but the real hoopers know about guys like him and Mark price

@@jtrix34 agreed man( except for 1.5 which I’m not sure is that relevant tbh) Stockton was a better pure PG than Isiah but Isiah was more athletic, a better scorer and imposed himself from a scoring standpoint, in terms of pure PG skills tho Stockton was better He was a better playmaker for others, more efficient shooter, better fundamentals, super reliable, had more longevity and a better defender also, their assists, steals and shooting % numbers are all in Stocktons favour by a considerable margin in some areas Stockton was the archetypal pure PG who had Malone as the main scoring option where as IT was the main option too tbh He’s a small, non flashy white guy who played for Utah and never won a chip tho so never gets the praise he deserves Magic is in category all by himself really due to his size In terms of pure PGs Stockton is infront of everyone tbh Oh and yeah man Mark Price was pure quality too 👍 Shame he couldn’t stay healthy...

Stockton is definitely top 10 best PGs but most people wouldn't put him in the top 3 because 1: He played for almost his entire career with another top 30 player all-time and didn't get a chance to really prove what he could do without Malone (unlike Kobe & Shaq or Magic & Kareem) 2: His longevity was definitely impressive but his peak was never a consensus top 5 player in the league 3: Utah's offense was monotonous, it was spamming the Stockton - Malone pick and roll or Stockton throwing a pass to Malone for a post-up (Yes, It is definitely a deadly weapon however in the playoffs where a team can build a whole game plan to stop their opponent it became super predictable) 4: Assists totals are vastly overrated. Most players to average 10+ assists don't win championships except for a few anomalies (LeBron in 2020, Magic). Players who average 10+ assists often do so because there are no other consistent creators on their team so they can rack up assist totals.

@@JeyDub08 I’m talking about pure PGs man, no idea why you bring up a bunch of guys who aren’t even PGs tbh...

isiah ahead of oscar is laughable. no mention of bob cousy is also laughable.

I would put Nash over Kidd

Shocked I had to scroll this far to see my boy Steve Nash

How is nash not top 10? His teams were very good, has good acolades, and has great stats. Walt frazier is a laugh.

That's a solid point

And why did they leave out: Yo Mama!!!

i think this was a "pure" point guard convo cause there is no way they name Nash before Steph

Uncle Dru yeah this is a great point, as Russillo is a big Steph guy. And there is no way he thinks Paul is better than Curry.

@@uncledru7523 Exactly

@@uncledru7523 that’s a fair point, the definition of “point guard” has definitely changed over the years and yeah Steph is probably a hybrid 1/2 instead of a classic 1

look at curry man

Where's Big O?

Nash was a nobody til phoenix shifted the sport.

Yeah, but they weren't including Steph on purpose

@@coreyeatmon5101 Yeah, everyone has two MVP's 🤣

You slow

Curry is better then mash Stockton and it

I think steph is 5

same argument was used against oscar 20 years earlier, its a dumb argument.

It is a knock against anyone who plays the game in an unorthodox fashion or not built physically like a point guard. It’s so stupid

I don't think anyone takes Magic out of that conversation - he was a physically unusual player, but he played the position pretty traditionally. Even in this conversation, they don't talk about Magic much, not because he's not in the conversation, but because everyone acknowledges that he's the #1 answer, so the debate is around #s 2-5 or so.

this is a W

I have him 12th, not far off. his problem was that he was often the 3rd best player on his team and played in a winning system that might have still won titles without him.

I have him 10 so I agree

@@golfinguru11 lol ok maybe not such a hot take after all

@@n21james1 fair

I scrolled down until I found the first Parker comment. Can’t believe how much he’s disrespected vis-a-vis CP. At some point winning has to tip the scales way in his favor.

What about him

Nope not even above stock

Stockton is not over curry or Isaiah

Stop talking basketball immediately

@@zackd9032 Recency bias. Go back and start over.

@@klicknkreate7077 first player EVER to have 20k pts and 10k ast once again if you doing think cp3 is at least top 5 all time stop talking basketball immediately

@@zackd9032 Magic, 2 time MVP Nash, all time assists AND steals leader Stockton, great scorer, rebounder, and assist pg champion Oscar Robertson, and champion Isiah Thomas (top 50 player ever and 2 time champ with a 19 ppg and 9.3 career apg). All these players were team first, great players, and didn't screw up the chemistry for their teams like CP did with the Clippers or get hurt in clutch, or stink up the court like CP did last year in the finals like CP did. You need to stop.

@@jingqi9106 STOP TALKING BASKETBALL IMMEDIATELY

W

Shut up

Better than 4 of those

Without a doubt he is

Better than stockton east. Also better than kidd or Payton. West and Robertson are probably better

Most people would consider Jerry West a SG.

I take Kidd over CP3 all day. I take Stockton too easily. Robertson was great, but a different era. West was not a PG. Payton is there with CP3, although Paul is more efficient.

First sentence w