Is Clocking Out Your Opponent Scumbag, or Genius 

MODO needs to add in a function for repeating actions. Maybe clippy can show up "it looks like you've repeating the same action 10 times in a row, how many times would you like to do this?"

The problem with a chess clock in MODO is that the game actions are difficult to execute. Especially with the infinite combos, even two card combos can require 6-7 clicks per loop, which is just eating the clock time. I think that the clock should only run if it has been more than a second since the player took a relevant game action. Use the same principle that IRL judges use for determining a slow play infraction.

Another problem is sometimes I don't want to stop a combo at an obvious time. I might want to let you get 40k creature tokens and then play my rakdos charm.

Coming from tabletop wargames, where playing to clock out your opponent has been 1: around for a very long time and 2: still viewed contentiously by many, I wish you the best of luck with this in MODO.

Nice. Thx for pointing out the useful detail too of the abbreviation for MODO-- I always heard it said but always assumed those old timers were saying a diff pronunciation of MTGO as a nickname. But somehow I never knew the words... "magic online wl digital objects"

As a storm player and former twin player, I have always been in the mindset of "Look, I picked this deck. You don't owe me a concession, I'm the one wasting our time here." If you aren't willing to play out the combo, don't play the combo.

WotC just needs to either give MODO a massive ease of use update so you don't feel like you're playing something janky as fuck from the late 90s, or introduce the cards and effects from MODO into Arena and then give MODO the ol' yeller treatment.

In old school yugioh there’s an infamous card known as Yata-Garasu. When it deals damage, your opponent skips their next draw phase and it has the downside of returning to the hand at the end of the turn. It led to a combo deck known as "Yata Lock" where you aim to get rid of as many cards as your opponent's as possible just to lock them out of ever drawing an answer or a win ever again. I mention all this because it takes 40 swings with that bird to kill an opponent as it's so weak so most would just scoop when presented with the lock. And the AI in older games would do so even, it was that well known and prevalent that even Konami decided to program knowledge of it into their games.

One thing that MODO could do to help timer situations is to have a demonstrated loop continue a set amount of times like people often shortcut with paper or Cockatrice. I think that your suggestion of having a vote-to-concede option is a great idea in general and should be in place. As you also said, that could lead to some trolling or griefing where one person forces everyone to stay despite not also having interaction, but overall I think it's a beneficial thing to add to help encourage people to either make plays or leave. Heck, nothing's stopping multiple people from conceding if the vote-to-concede fails a few times. That then forces the person who was staying in to either do their thing or also concede like the rest of the people. Having the vote-to-concede option be only for the non-active players/the people whose turn it currently isn't would make the most sense so the person who has the perceived victory can't troll and force people to stay only to do nothing. All in all, I think if someone demonstrates an overwhelming boardstate and has clear victory then it's scummy to not concede assuming there's no interaction to prevent the victory. That's not to say as soon as someone has a bajillion tokens and/or life that you concede immediately, but if you don't have something to mitigate that boardstate then you should. Someone could have a cyc rift, someone could be playing infect, someone may even be near lethal in commander damage, so at the end of the day those aren't necessarily impossible barriers. However, if the table goes around with no responses to stop the boardstate or person from winning then it's time to just leave and start a new game. I think some people forget that, at the end of the day, Magic is a social multiplayer game. We all have our individual plans and goals for the game, but we're all choosing to play a game together. Communication is key in Magic. Sometimes it may reveal plans or ideas, but not only is that part of the fun, but it also allows situations like this to be prevented.

Playing to the Format has always been Genius to me. Like playing to your local Meta Game and understand some decks won't work.

I don't play MODO, and only play EDH in paper, but I play tons of Draft on Arena. I will always, ALWAYS allow my opponent to rope if they are slow playing, including rushing my own turn to put the clock back on them ASAP. In general I'm against scooping until they literally make the game winning swing, there's always a chance they mess up and don't read the board correctly. For all my efforts I think I've gotten exactly 2 wins in my easily 1000+ games where I coulda/shoulda scooped and they just timed out for whatever reason, and I'd much prefer a real game to an opponent roping, but when there's gems on the line, we're going to time.

Better idea: if a chess clock is to be used in the format, either define it in the event, or put it up for a vote before the game starts. As they say at competitive events, "time is a resource.." does it lead to soft bans? Sort of... But you can also learn to complete the interaction in a more time-effective way.

I quite often play chess clock commander at the lgs as there is nothing worse then a 3 hour game because everyone is playing mediocre decks. 15 mins each if you time out you lose. Stops people taking 15 mins for a turn where they do a whole lot of not much. The problem with magic online is that you have to run the infinite combos 1 click at a time, only way you can solve that problem is by improving the platform, which probably wont happen... We have had very few problems with chess clock magic, keeps games shorter and doesn't soft ban anything in paper at least. The only rule that really comes with it is that if you want to in response something you just have to do it as you are wasting time on someone elses clock if 2 people say it at the same time naturally its whoever would be passed priority 1st. Not seen anyone clock themselves out yet, but it has gotten very close a few times.

Nice editing!

I think you make them play it out every time. Your opponent knew about the time restraints when they built the deck, chose to put in the combo, and then chose to play slow enough to not give them enough time to win. If my opponent can’t win while I’m actively F6’ed then they don’t deserve to win imo

I think that, since it's impossible for a program to detect an infinite loop (the solution to this "Halting Problem" was proven undecidable in the early 1900's), being able to define a repeatable action can help solve this. Say you want to always scry to the top with Thrasios, and then let MODO put your land on the battlefield or card into hand, and repeat it for how many cards in your deck. The game performs those actions and waits for opponents to respond. If the opponent has nothing, it goes through it X times, and ends the loop, so long as it's capable of performing the actions that a player defined.

I think there's two types of deterministic combo and one ought take up the timer and one ought have a "demonstrate loop" button. The splinter twin/pester mite combo is firmly in demonstrate loop combo in that, its a simple set of game actions which IRL can be abstracted, IRL once its begun it actually takes less time than many non-combo turns. There's also things like Lotus Field Combo - where IRL the turns take about 10 minutes because there's so many separate things going on - which are also often non-interactive but conversely might not resolve with a win so the opponent doesn't scoop until its shown that they're dead onboard. As a consequence I think you should be fighting the clock for something like Lotus Field combo, and I think you should be able to essentially Macro an infinite combo which is straightforward in paper like splinter twin.

Once you have a clock that effects decisions and should be considered when choosing and playing your deck. You are right our actual time is of value so choose when and where and what you want to play. There is a difference between online and in person so take heed.

that outro made me laugh very hard, thanks

I think a format with a clock would be a lot of fun, paper and online. I like the idea of a metagame that is limited by how fast and precise you can play I don't think that should be standard CEDH though. An optional mode like Bullet Chess would be very fun to experiment with.

I honestly hate the way that the paper clock system works. It incentivizes people to monopolize the time allotted. The only recourse you have is to call a judge and have them babysit your slow playing opponent. Yet in a regular lgs setting this isn’t really feasible. So what happens is the control player does everything in their power to make sure the second game in a match doesn’t come to completion. I much prefer a chess clock system where your victory comes down to your agency. It makes sure the game is constantly moving and if its not your opponent knows they are using an allotted time as a resource that they will run out of. I know no one likes losing to the clock but i think thats way better than losing because your opponent roped you while starring you in the face.

In online tournaments with real winnings, What about having a Judge determine that lethal is presented and demand the other three players present a response or scoop? I know getting a fifth person as an observer is expensive/often-impractical. So what if you also incentivize random players to act in this role for the smaller cedh competative games?

One of my favorite decks was abusing ETBs with Lumbering Battlement, I had three battlements(via clone effects) and a Wall of Lost Thoughts.. Opponent was dead by mill, but Arena times you put before you can loop enough

I have always been a fan of sportsmanship in competitive games. I believe that it is a sign of respect for the player to scoop before time.

Do they sell SPAM in the UK and if so do you eat it?

Isnt there an option to remember targets for future actions

Click intensity and time constraints is a thing you do have to consider when playing a deck on MODO. If you play combo on MODO, you have to be prepared to execute the combo until the opponent is dead. Other competitive formats have decks that perform much better in paper than in MODO and decks that are more or less soft banned because of that. The issue with cEDH is that the metagame is centered around combo, which plays poorly on MODO. While having shortcuts would be great, and MODO already have a lot more of them than Arena (like save target, always yes or always yield), I doubt we will see a day where we can demonstrate a loop and execute it X time or until you get a specific card or result.

I think it was hilarious when Seth would time out in Commander Clash even though he had the win. But that's a thing of the past because they're playing paper now!

I would love for paper limited events to have a per game chess clock instead of the normal general time limit. At the last sealed event I played I was forced to concede or take a draw in game 3 because my opponent dragged his feet through game 1 and 2 and just happened to be about two life higher than me (both in the high teens of life) when time was called. His argument was that he was winning therefore I should concede, meanwhile I had the better board state and was going to turn things around. If there had been chess clocks, he would have lost outright because he was playing so goddamn slow.

If there are prizes on the line, there will always be people who will do everything they can to win, including running out the clock. As long as those people exist we shouldn't give them any sort of competitive advantage, so we should not have a culture of premature scooping. The only way to put evergone on an even playing field is if everyone knows that the clock is a consideration. The group concede button would definitely be a great addition though. But with no prizes then yeah everyone should scoop when a paper combo would win.

The problem with these combos is that someone might have a response AFTER the combo has been finished. So, if I have a fog effect in hand, you'll have to go all the way with your combo because I am not wasting a fog on 3 faeries. This is a weakness of the client IMO.

I personally believe that having a clock, in a multiplayer format, that aims to create amazing and crazy gameplay and tell a cool story is kinda contra productive. The whole idea of the commander format is to create a social experience. And like you say, having a clock works against having conversations and plotics. But there are also so many cool combos. Just look at Game Knights live, where they used a clock. Gaven Varhey did amazing things, he played commander as it is intended, and almost lost bc of time. Is that really the way we wanna play? I absolutly agree, that we need a clock in an online 1vs1 competitive enviroment. Often times I have been so annoyed with my opponents on Arena for taking forever on their turns, and I was more than glad, that the game pushed them to do something. But if you wanna chat and just have a fun experience, why limit the time you have to do that?

I dont mind the clock and whatever. I'm the type of guy that let the infinite combo player plays his infinite combo untill a mistake is made😂

For loops maybe it could be possible to just allow users to add arbitrary game items. Like "copy this token 9999 times". But because it's not part of rules all other players would need to accept that you can perform this "illegal" action. Could be similar to the tools we have in deckbuilding websites, just with additional step of accepting/rejecting the thing.

I havn't played MOTO for years but when I did there was a combo running rampant in standard that would essentially make it so that one player couldn’t lose. If you had no answer for it, you couldn’t win, but the combo itself also isn’t a win it just means that the player using the combo couldn’t lose. Every time I encountered the combo I felt as if the opponent running the combo expected me to forfeit, but I felt no reason to forfeit because they didn’t win. This became a huge waste of time for both of us. I think that the timeclock is just part of the online experience and there unfortunately isn’t a way around that

If they want to remove the clock then they would have to add a way to deal with players going afk or stalling for no reason. Best way to do this imo is something dueling books(a online yugioh thing like cockatrice for magic) does they have admins and you can call them to come to your game to review logs and end games if a player afks or in there case cheats which isnt as much of a problem here as its not manual like duelingbooks

There is also the aspect of new people playing... I dont know every combo and card, so its not always obvious if its a combo or a combo kill i'm seeing. If there is no talking happening i might not realise its a combo kill happening ( or take some time to realise). The social interaction side is important for many reasons

Yup... Infinite combos have mostly left my Arena deck building vocabulary.. so frustrating to go off with Risen Reef and Zendikar's Roil draw my Thassa's Oracle, have the mana to play it and then Arena decides to move phases, lose all my lotus cobra mana and lose the game

You should concede if presented with an infinite combo. I guess it’s too much to expect the devs to add coding to detect these combos to end the game or at least have a macro option so it speeds through it?

For CEDH Remove the total time. People will scoop when you have the win. Maybe implement a system similar to arenas to make sure that people are taking game actions and moving the game along

What's funny is they could pay magic judges to be able to be called to a mtg game and decide a winner.

Running out the clock is scummy.

I think for cEDH the answer is easy. There is no rule 0, you try to win at all times, at all costs. That includes clocking out your opponents, or specifically avoiding decks/strategies that might cause you to clock out.... GO! If you want exactly paper magic, play paper magic

i remember the day i made someone ante up alpha mox sapphire to where i ante up dark ritual and won mox sapphire. also recall i could get alpha beta for same price as unlimited came out

I think it can be a bit of both. Being that I play some arena, nothing gets me like tmny opponent spamming, your turn, 40 times in a row. So if they end up in an infinite loop, I sure let them run the clock and waste their time. They won't ever lose to the clock, but why give a jerk the satisfaction of quitting the game.

I uninstalled modo because of the frustrations of timing out as a new player. It never happens in arena. Just not worth the stress

I have seen in chess tournaments, people (much better than me) playing at about 2 moves a second for time reasons, and mate was played just after (as in fractions of seconds) the opponent pointed out time as that person's clock ran out. The time out was considered effective, and if I recall correctly the loss was confirmed because the opponent still had a pawn and therefore could theoretically still win. In short, chess players in real life are that ruthless. And it's expected that you take time for yourself ahead of time. I don't understand why it'd be so hard to implement chess clocks in paper 2 person tournaments.

IMO, if the clock is part of the game, it's valid for anyone to strategize with the clock in mind. If this leads to unfun play patterns it's on the developers to figure out a better system.

MODO should have a keystroke recorder specifically for infinite combos like Splinter Twin.

Why haven’t the devs made it possible to do infini loops? With like a representative token or something?

If we are talking about a competitive match online then time management is a skill. They shouldnt only have 2 minutes left by the time they have the combo assembled. If they are willing to spend tickets on an event, then they should look at it as having spent money to get that time. On the other hand, when its a "match for fun", would it really matter when the clock runs out? You don't feel like you won when they clearly had the win, but "lost" to time.

If you have an infinite combo with no actual outlet to win (Infinite lifegain loop), Yes, get clocked. If you are truly presenting a lethal combo or lockout combo (Myco/Karn) yes, scoop. And a timer definitely needs to be present in paper magic.

If it's a damage based combo that's on the table and no one can stop it on the turn, then sure I'll scoop it up. But if there's any opportunity for me or the table to draw one more card and then they untap to win with infinite creatures...then it needs to be played out. If it's an infinite combo online, it just needs to win on the spot lol

Just going to throw out there that Duels of the Planeswalkers had answers for all of these problems. Including a communal scoop button ..\

Always play it out. I've played enough cocky opponents in person who claim they have the win or can't explain their wincon and then go on to lose the game, that I will never concede.

what if mtgo went to turns? after your clock is up you have 5 more of your turns

They should do what they do in paper, so if you go to time, you have 5 turns collectively to finish the game, otherwise it's a draw. Still allows time for wincon combos to resolve, while encouraging players to keep the game moving.

Why not just a turn timer like on arena instead of a chess clock. It still nerfs combos severely but you don't outright lose when running out of time once

A feature to allow repeated actions would be a fix for combos, and honestly the genius or scummy conversation is context sensitive. There was a point in paper where a combo was so infamous it became an instant scoop on sight until someone said to play It out. There is also an argument to be made that an infinite is using game pieces in the same way that using the clock is. Timing someone out will always feel scummy, especially if you are timed out on the cusp of victory, but much like stax, clox is a viable strategy.

I think if the clock runs out during your turn, you should be able to finish that turn so you have the chance to win

I don’t play MODO, never have, never will. Same with Arena. However, I played a TON of league of legends. I think the surrender vote is a valid option, and as you said griefing would still be problematic. My personal philosophy is I want to see the win- infinite combos sure, but how do you win. Infinite life, cool, but how do you win? You can still deck someone by winning, and have won purely out of spite against a life gain opponent that had less cards in their library.

Online and paper have same names but are different. Best example is infinite combo in paper with polyraptor + a Forerunner of the Empire that you have some how made indestructible. In paper if you have no way to stop the loop its a draw. But do this online? It naturally just stops as magic online as a 200 token limit. So you don't need to build into your a deck a way to stop the loop. These are minor differences but they are ones you go into knowing which system your using.

I didn't know until fairly recently that closing the Arena app doesn't DC or surrender you, but keeps you in the game and ropes your opponent. Apologies to all the opponents I've accidentally roped while playing Magic out and about on my phone.

I think giving like 5 seconds to your clock for every action you take once you get below a minute would help with this and would only really effect combo players.

Running someone's clock is a tactic in chess, so yeah, absolutely, go for it. The clock is there for a reason.

make the clock a 10 minute timer with a 2 second increment. if chess clock is mentioned already, i would like to see that beeing tried. (for those that dont know. each action you take gives you 2 seconds (or any other ammount that would fit better, 2 was just my first idea) on your timer. (maybe also add, that the timer cant grow bigger than 15 minutes))

an easy solution is to have the clock only run down if the player hasn't done a game action for like 10 seconds. I would cut the total time a player has down to like 15 minutes, since they will get "free time" as long as they are doing something.

Politics is important in EDH. Being denied the ability to make deals do to the clock would be frustrating.

MODO needs voip and a combo function. We cannot rely on players to just scoop unfortunately

Just have the 20 minutes each clock, if you drop below 3 minutes, you go back up to 3 for your next turn. Everyone wants to play more Magic, the clock is to stop people from durdling around, doing nothing, so if you've used your 20 minutes, you get 3 minute turns now. Enough to not get screwed trying for infinites, but punishes if your game actions are partially slow.

as a pauper turbo fog player i can tell you the clock is my doom as much as my opponent's

i think people should just adapt and play acording to the clock. Pretty similar to how local tournaments with local rules works or special formats with their own distinct rules. Bring shorter combos or stop comboing at all.

It's all about the rewards and negatives. Online it's hard to tell. If it's just a skirmish then I would say it's sportsmanship to scoop for that. Otherwise if it's a ranked game similar to that on arena people will be less incentivized to do it. As they would lose something other than the game. Tough one but it should always be to scoop out for sportsmanship. The only thing is, you will start to have people make decks to specifically abuse that new common practice

When you have a fog never scoop lol

Was playing Brawl on arena last week. Had my win on the board once I dropped Paradox Engine when I untapped. At absolutely NO point did I allow my rope to appear at any point in the game up until that point. My opponent had been using the rope every turn. Anyway.... I untap, upkeep, draw and play Paradox Engine. I 100 percent had the win locked down. But as soon as I played Engine, my rope appeared and I had zero time outs. I end up losing when my opponent untaps. Arena is ACTIVELY using the clock to hand people wins.

TL;DR , I think a judge should be allowed to determine if the game is won. I do not know all combos in the game, and relying on people to tell me I lose, only works if I believe you. Gitrog combo in paper is a deck I don't see anymore because everyone always wants them to play out the full combo. I've had 3 friends build him and take him apart because it's fun to win with the combo, but it isn't fun to do the combo. Thinking about this makes me believe that a clock can invoke some interesting play patterns. I play 2D fighting games in my spare time, and in those games, you practice landing your combos before going into competetive. Combo's in mtg are similar. If you're too slow, you get punished, and if you know what you're doing, then you know how to not go infinite, just enough to kill. Switching from fighting games to chess, that game actually has a fun way to deal with "I can't win, but I can stall" in that if you stall with only a king, you draw due to insufficient time vs lacking material. I'm not saying draws should be more common, but losing on time in the middle of a game winning combo sucks. However, that presents the idea of staxx being played for time wins. If you cannot win in the alloted time, you lose. This enforces that you have to know what you're doing. If each player has their own clock, that is the best option. I believe that not having a turn timer, but a player timer stops some stupid stall tactics people do do.

I think for a format like cedh where the game is won with combos clocks are probably bad? I don't really play that format though. With the clock as a whole, I think if you know it's a thing going in its like any other resource. People may not always like it, but I don't see anything less legitimate or scumbag about using my alloted ti.e against my opponents anymore than using a high life total to grind a game out in paper, or counters to drag the game into the long game. If I'm presented witha resource I'm going to use it, whether or not it is or is not an unpopular decision. Personal time is important, but I already know I'm committing mine to the game and I expect my opponent to feel the same. That's just my view though, I get how frustrating it can be to have the win and not enough time to execute it, and I know going to time at events sucks pretty hard, but it's part of the game

Since the clock is something everyone knows about going into a game then it’s something you have to play around. In a competitive environment I’d wait to see if they can beat the clock and wouldn’t feel bad at all.

I dont like the idea of voting to end simply for the fact that more than you'd imagine, people that are combining off, don't actually have it for one reason or another. I want to see the receipts

In Casual it's a Scumbag move. In Competitive it's Genius. In competition people will use any and every advantage they have. If you making a combo that takes too long knowing it might fizzle to the clock and you still choose to use it, That mean's they would be leaving money on the table to just scoop to you even though you would be beat by the clock. All's fair in love and war.

As long as you are playing for some sort of prize or placement especially against strangers then there is nothing wrong with playing to how the rules are set up. If running the clock is a viable strategy then people will use it and if you don't want to put yourself behind then you should not exclude doing it on principle. In a casual game with nothing on the line it's a different story.

Infinite damage that i cant stop, i concede. Infinite life, i dont concede as i can also combo off and push through. I do make plays considering Infinite life though, so like i never attack or target that player with small bits of direct damagem

My take is that digital MTG and paper MTG are explicitly different games -- as much as we'd like them to be otherwise. Given this, I see it neither as good nor bad if someone plays to the clock. It is a fundamental game feature and fair play. In paper, we say people win or lose games as early as deck selection. This is one area mirrored online -- esp if you want to flirt with big combos.

as a non-competitive player, clocking someone out sounds both genius and scummy. I get that all win-cons are valid, but if player A has no actual game playing way (no cards that they can play or activate) to to take that win away, then just running out the clock seems dirty to me. People that do this are probably the same ones that will buy up all the houses in monopoly and never sell them for Hotels, so noone else can ever buy houses.

I don’t even like the chess clock in the Command Zone’s live games at events, you shouldn’t lose a casual game because your deck has 5 more minutes of triggers.

My 0,02€ : First, definitively scumbag, but *only* if we can collectively agree that the clock is not meant to be a part of the core Magic the Gathering game but an unfortunate limitation introduced for practicality issues. Second, even if we could even *all* agree on that, people would still try unless they *know* that they cannot "get away with it". In paper, we try to solve that problem with "tournament rules" and "judges", and we could do the same with MTGO. There would be 3 options for WotC : paid judges, volunteers, or automatic enforcement by algorithms (or a mix of the three). Unfortunately, paid judges cost money, I'm not sure enough people would want to work for free so that Wizards can make more money, and algorithms, well, let's just say I'm *very* skeptical. TLDR : yes, that is scumbag behavior, no, you won't be able to persuade them or shame them in changing that behavior, and Wizards will do nothing meaningful to change that because Capitalism? PS : love the videos, please keep them coming !

If it's a truly "competitive" format, then rules as written. With the proviso that some of WoTC's billions could probably go to a cheap AI that can figure out handling infinite combos. And then bring chess clocks to paper tournaments instead of just timing the rounds.

This is the problem with interactions where you face no human beeing. People start behaving shitty, when there is noone to interact with (or who could be offended and would confront you with your shitty behaviour). Like online. This is why trolling exist. And roping on arena. or outtiming on modo, although it is shitty behaviour and wouldn't be left unchalllenged face to face. Or another example are cars. People tend to drive reckless and ruthless because they are enclosed in this anonymity box. So no social consequences.

If MTGO had a reasonable block system this wouldn't be as much of an issue. We need to be able to keep people from joining games just to troll and grief. Had a game where everyone is at about 56-58 minutes remaining and one guy at 40 or 45. The most basic turns took almost 10 minutes cuz this guy with no actions refused to click yield when he had no game actions. That would get you a game loss in paper magic.

I personally think it's scumbag to make them lose to the clock when they have a deterministic infinite combo. In paper you can shortcut it, and a shortcoming of the client shouldn't become a win condition.

I see the clock in a similar way as mill. You run out of the resources you need to play? Well, it doesn't matter if it's cards or time, you die. Does it feel bad? Sure, as does dying to mill because you drew 2 more cards than your opponent 10 turns ago, but the game has to end at some point.

Players should use the clock to their advantage. I don’t think it’s scummy to use it as a resource, especially if there is monetary investment (i.e. leagues).

Just add a clock for the game like a round timer

Shortening the clock, and making it that players HAVE to manually play each action, Thats wizards of the coast, hammering home that you simply cannot just say “i go infinite” You have to click to tap the thing, click again to tap the other thing that untaps the first thing, rinse and repeat. An “infinite” button on the digital game doesn’t work, the same way assuming your combo automatically wins regardless if you go infinite or not, An opponent always has an opportunity to interact. And they have the right to hold priority and make you jump through hoops despite not actually having a card in hand to interact with (thats called bluffing…. Yup, real scumbag move that is, right?) I dont care what you present as lethal. At any time, another player can pull out that card that forces a target player to skip the rest of their turn but can only be cast during combat….. Stops the board flood, And then bam another player slaps down the cleansing nova, and suddenly the person who ASSUMED they won, wants to scoop….. Essentially, some of you need to learn not just how the mechanics work, but WHY they are what they are.

I feel almost all this calling them “genius” is a stretch. Almost anyone know “if your opponent clock is low, you can lame them out (have them lose on time) instead of lose a lost game”. It happens in the lowest elo of chess where players below 800 will play only with their king because “my opponent will take too long to do the mate”. Does it mean I think it’s a scum bag move to lame it out? It depends. It’s clearly a scum bag move if you talked it out and agree not to if it’s a clear lethal. But if you not talked it out and there is a small % you fizzle, I think it’s ok. There is a bit of gray inbetween.

Not on your page here, kenobi. But only because competitive play already showed, that there is no "gentleman agreement". I draw my example from yugioh. There exist a card or multiple that win you the whole match instead of just one round when it kills the enemy. And the scene plus judges ruled, despite the cards being not legal, that they can be countered by simply giving up in response. People simply side which is suits them better in any given context. So no, i wouldnt scoop. There is a rule, writen in the game, i am not obliged to scoop. if you cant finish your combo in time, thats your problem. Just like with the dragon in yugioh - i would argue, when he hits the board and my enemy scoops, he does it because he cant stop him. But nah, nobody agrees. My take from the story is: there simply are people who cry if they cant play the strongest stuff in any given game.

Unpopular opinion. But I kinda wish sometimes they had a format that was time restrained like blitz chess.

I think we should add a chess clock to paper magic. Turns is a bad way of doing it

In a competitive format, you should do everything within the rules to achieve victory, up to and including taking advantage of time rules.

Should you concede when presented with lethal on board/an infinite combo? Morally yes, strategically no. The chess clock is an inherent mechanical element of digital magic. While I think it's a nice idea for digital magic to try and emulate paper, fundamentally that can't happen and in the other cases where a mechanical constraint exists, like misclicking or accidentally passing priority, we just accept it as part of the game. The clock is no different. I believe if you are playing something competitively, all that matters are the actual, explicit rules of the game (in this case that you lose after spending 20min with priority), you don't get to use a moral lens to change the rules. While I would hate somebody doing to me, I would respect their right to do it.