Is Connor The Most Tragic Character On Angel? 

Making returned 'Cordy' a twist villain killed Connor's characterization. The audience was never allowed to acknowledge and absorb the true horror of being groomed, manipulated, and sexually assaulted by a supernatural force... after being groomed, manipulated, and psychologically tortured by the man who raised him. For the sake of the twist, Connor is framed as a villain, rather than as a victim, which is cruelly ironic. The audience is gaslit about the character being gaslit. He had so much potential as a character, and they just wasted it.

Vincent Kartheiser's talent still managed to shine through,despite the limited material he was given. Peace Out is one of my favorites of the series. I get why people hated Connor,but I only ever felt sorry for him. He was a mixed bag of rage and confusion,and it was to see why.

Cordelia raised baby Connor along with Angel. I consider her as Connor's mother, because she did everything a mom does. Which add that level of grossness and uneasiness to season 4. It felt like watching an incestuous couple.

Connor is such a classic, poster-child example of Reactive Attachment Disorder. He's always broken my heart.

Connor gets the character development in the comics that he deserves.

It reminds me of the mistreatment of Dawn, Joss must really just hate teenagers lmao. Even in our normal world, teens have a hard time adjusting to life. They're dramatic and whiny because they're growing into themselves. Throw in supernatural creatures, dead parents, etc and of course they're going to act up. They deserved better writing and better circumstances!

I loved the idea of Connor. I also loved him when he came back in season 3, I wish they could of continued that character instead of the total ruin in season 4. Letting him and Angel getting closer and making Connor Angel biggest love, like they did with Dawn and Buffy. I guess male relationships, even family, frightened Joss.

Connor was always one of my very favorites since he was introduced. I obviously wasn’t a fan of the thing with him and Cordelia, but I loved his character and Vincent’s performance

I liked Connor a lot after Angel had his memory wiped and gave him a normal life & family.

Conner is a victim of joss's toxicity

I mean, if I was a kidnapped baby and raised by someone who wasn’t my real father, I would hold a grudge too. I just subbed to your channel 👍🏻

Connor was one of my favourite characters. Poor guy was not given treatment he deserved.

Connor has always been one of my favs characters from Angelverse.

I love that you did this video, because I need more people to support Connor... On the other hand, I was writing a video on this exact topic and you managed to hit every point I was going to cover! Connor is UNABASHEDLY my favourite character in the Whedonverse. I think Vincent Kartheiser's talents surpassed what he was given. As a fic writer, I also love characters that have potential and I don't think any character has more potential than Connor. I especially want to give you props for not shying away from calling what Fauxdelia did to Connor as grooming and rape. A lot of people just focus on how "icky" it is, without really delving into how damaging it was to him. I always thought the problem with Season Four wasn't Connor, but that everyone else (in particular Angel) was an asshole. Since Connor was the new kid, he got blamed for things. But everyone was slumming it, and poor Connor wasn't mentally able to handle it. When people were talking spin-offs in the Buffyverse, I know people always called for Faith or Spike or a Slayer school.... I always wanted one for Connor, because Connor was the character who never got his full character arc. Faith and Spike became the heroes they were supposed to be, but Connor had it cut short. Since they of course never went that way, I ended up writing it myself. Unfortunately it was fairly unpopular, because as you said Connor isn't a popular character.

The writers did him dirty for most of season 4. I like him in season 3 and season 5 he especially shines. I have no idea why they decided to try and put “Cordy” and him together. Obviously no one would like that.

If Spike could get redemption then Connor can too

This video is SPOT on. Connor had so much wasted potential. In a post Me Too era, I’m convinced the S4 story was, at the broad-strokes, the story Whedon intended to tell and yet failed in execution in many many episodes. First, after reading hundreds of contemporaneous and after-the-fact interviews, I think Whedon’s intent was always an evil Cordelia. The actress’s pregnancy was a timing issue (that could have been lovingly handled versus source of abuse). A complete breakdown in show leadership (also Whedon’s fault for over-reach and neglect) left a writer’s room that was extremely uneven in tone and plot. But then individual writers/actors give moments of brilliance that show what could have been. Biggest regrets: 1) One-note whiny teen writing for so many episodes 2) Borderline ‘camp’ evil writing for Cordelia (booming voice thing) Flaws (in my opinion) that Whedon never thought were bad: - Angel’s dumping Connor on the streets (I don’t think Whedon thought it due to Angel’s mental state, he thought it was tough love) - Cordy raping Connor (Whedon didn’t see it as rape, which led to the grossness in addition to incest - remember he was going for Oedipus) Meanspiritness - because Whedon was cruel - Cordy’s black outfit - Constantly putting CC on a concrete floor or cold slab These elements make me shudder at parts of S4. And yet I agree with the OP, the video correctly shows there was some tragic brilliance in Connor that could have told a much better story.

I agree with all of this. It broke my heart what they did to Cordy and Conner.. But.. I want to mention how no one brings up that Darla was a sprint.. possibly an angel.. that means the human soul does ASSEND.. while the demon half goes to hell.. this is HUGE and it's never brought up in show and I've havnt anyone else point this out.

in all honesty, i’m not a fan of connor. he’s insufferable and i never liked him, ever since he popped up from that hell dimension. don’t get me wrong he was fine when he was a baby but after he aged up super fast it was just a no. although i do see where all his troubled behaviours came from. he was born into darkness, the mortal son of 2 vampires who wasn’t even supposed to exist, yet he did. he was also stolen as a baby and raised in a FULL ON HELL DIMENSION by one of his fathers enemies who groomed him into believing his father was a horrible person. i only liked him when they erased everyone’s memories of him and gave him a new life. even though it was all fabricated and lies, it showed how growing up normally could have changed connors life and made him… well actually sufurable. even after he got his memories back he didn’t change back into the boy he used to be, because he was able to see both ways. point is i hate connors attitude yet i see where it comes from, and maturing i’m staring to realize that he’s not as horrible as he seems.

"Too late. Too late." in 3x20 always chills me to the bone, because of how true it is. There is no way to talk Connor's trauma out of him, to convince him Angel is good, to make him understand what good even is. It's too entrenched, too tied to his sense of self, too late. That moment is also reminiscent of their final(ish) confrontation in 4x22, "You let him get me. Oh, you let him get me." as they are fundamentally the same statement. It took 25 episodes for him to truly see Holtz as the monster he is, but that understanding was never the balm that would allow him to finally heal.

I do wonder if giving Connor a normal relationship with a girl his age would have helped. Like Dawn. I do ship Dawn and Connor. They have a lot in common. They both feel like they don’t belong and aren’t supposed to exist. Dawn faces finding out she isn’t real and that her family isn’t really her family. I feel like if Dawn and Connor would have met and grown a relationship he would have had someone who understands where he is coming from. Dawn would also have kept him grounded if he could go to her and just vent. Also sideline: if you have any good Dawn/Connor fanfics please let me know some!

This video does a good job explaining why I like Season 4 so much. It's so dark and tragic and all the story arcs, character arcs and story beats perfectly line up. Although they basically sacrificed Cordelia's character to achieve this, I still like Season 4 a lot.

When it comes to Connor I feel like the hate he gets is justified in Season 4, namely because how his character was written with Cordelia (in that Joss had to disgustingly mess her character to do it) and him being manipulated by Jasmine was really annoying. Yes he was raised in a hell dimension, but I don't feel it entirely excuses it. At least how it was excecuted. I still get a kick out of when Faith kicks the crap out of Connor in Orpheus! However when it comes to Season 5 Connor its a complete turn around. Once Angel got him a normal life & family Connor improves greatly! He actually became one of my favorite Buffyverse characters. I'd say overall Connor isn't a bad character, that's like saying because Cordelia was done poorly in Season 4 she's bad, its just in Season 4 specifically. I will say though, even at his worst Vincent Kartheiser's performance was fantastic, despite the limited material and stagnant progression he was given, which is truly a testament that even at its worst Buffyverse could still manage in some way. That being said still wasn't the biggest fan of Season 4.

I always wished he could've met Dawn. I feel like they would have really understood one another

I enjoyed Conner. I was only bothered by his relationship with Cordy but truly watching this show from s1-s5 i felt for him. He didnt want to fight anymore and he just wanted a family that loved him. Im glad he got that in s5 even when he got his memories back. If Angel survived that last battle, I hope they developed a real relationship. They deserve it

"Why couldn't he offer the same support to his own flesh and blood?" GGGIIIIIIIIRRRRRLLL...... ... IF ONLY the world had an answer for THIS ONE!!! lol. Angel's total rejection of Conner in Conner's greatest moment of need for fatherly love &forgiveness isn't inconsistent with ANGEL'S character, so much as it is a fairly common between parent and child. Best any of us have been able to guess so far: We see our own weaknesses in our children's mistakes. Or, SOMETHING like that. idk, man..

Are u planning on ever talking about Cordelia's treatment during S4?

This whole video is giving me "Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?" energy and I'm into it 👍

I clicked so fast! Great analysis, you helped me better understand the complexity of Conner's character development and thank you for acknowledging the horrendous relationship he had with Cordelia. Love your videos!

I want to see a spinoff where Connor and Dawn leave their shows, get together and road trip across the country fighting vampires and demons as they go. I think they’d be good for each other and could help each other grow.

The worst part is that none of the Fang Gang outside of Angel ever consider that they might have been a bit too harsh on the kid and expected him to get over his distrust and trauma quickly

Connor was not that bad and he was brought up to hate Angel and his team from a young age until he got to know them better yeah.

I agree with this. People crap on Connor but from when he was a week old till basically the end of season 4 he was just manipulated and used his entire life. Connor wasn't really happy until he got his memory wiped and forgot all that. He is great+-

Damn I forgot all about this stuff. Back then, I didn't realize how creepy it was that he and Cordelia were sleeping together. Especially since the non-posessed version of her was a surrogate mother to him.

It also goes without saying that fans of the show already love the other characters Angel, Wesley, Gunn etc so when someone comes in and does them harm they get fiercely defensive. That's another reason they needed to drop a few more redeeming qualities with Connor or at least show a flashback or two of his being tortured in Quor'toth by Holtz...because that's what it was. Torture. Being left for 5 days to find Holtiz was a PROUD moment for Connor...so how long did he have to run around lone in that hell world? how many times? What else did Holtz do to him? It was bad enough that Connor punched through a world to find his father. Yes he loved Holtz but in the way a lot of people love their abusive parents. It's messed up and with no one to guide him, I completely understand him being lost. The short time he's with Gunn & Fred alone, they're trying their best but their attention is split between taking care of him, work, and trying to find Angel and Cordelia so Connor didn't even get the type of attention and care he needed. It was still better than anything he had before but with his life, he needed so much more. Connor didn't even get educated. He never went to school, was never taught how to think for himself...he didn't know how to do critical thinking which made him easy prey to everyone to emotionally (or sexually) abuse him. He didn't have friends, didn't know anything outside of LA or the hell dimension. People forget how big an impact things like going to school would be. A lot of abused kids sometimes feel a reprieve when they're at school since they don't need to be around their abusive parents for a few hours. They also get to hear about far off places in the world & potential lives they could lead one day...giving them hope. School gives them an outlet so they could have fun or make friends etc. Connor had nothing but pain. Once the group finds out about he and Cordelia it's like they're shocked/disgusted but then that's it. They're just confused and trying to stop the birth but there's no acknowledgement of how messed up the situation would have made Connor. It's just...sad.

Great video! You're right there was a lot of missed potential there, I'm glad he got a little more nuance in the end at least

I really appreciate this. I’m in the middle of an Angel re-watch and have been dreading getting to the Conner parts. This might help make the watch easier. Thanks!

The fact that Holtz threw his own child into the sun after she became a vampire shows he has no ability to form connections with family. He could never love Connor because of what he was.

My cousin used to hate conner probably still does but ever since when he was baby and he calmed down and smiled at Angel true vampire face and I loved him all the more in the season 5 finale when he came back to help his father and he made that remark to his father about you show up for a cup of coffee and the world's not ending please father and son finally teaming up

Thank you for making this video describing Connor and his character arc throughout the show as well as the lack of character growth and the wasted opportunity for growth and expansion of the underlying issues that you mentioned. Even though I don't like the storyline of season 4 between Connor and possessed Cordelia, I've always thought that Connor got a bad hand, I wish the writers tried harder when it came to telling Connor's story.

I always loved that he got a happy ending ❤ he really deserved to have a family and his parents seemed great 👍 the kid was very likeable without all that baggage. Tragic only in past tense.

I think it's tragic that him and Dawn never met.. I think it's tragic the way Dawn was treated by Buffy in the final season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I think it's weird in the episode potential that it was pretty clear that Dawn was a potential, but out-of-the-blue it's like the script change it's mine like Michelle and Joss had some kind of disagreement he change his mind about the importance of dawn. Honestly I'm surprised that Dawn wasn't killed off in the final episode. Like think about it the episode potential like that orb would hit the potential Slayer it hit dawn like what it hit her because she was closer to the door LOL😂

You are so right I hated the way joss wrote the character of connor and with what he did to cordelia conner had so much potential he definitely deserved better and I hated that angel throws him out like that I really hated the last two seasons of angel 🤯😬😠😡🤬💩

connor was a hard character to like but the potential for how deep his story could go if he was allowed to be the main character rather than a plot device always kept him in my mind. i used to dislike him & dawn when i was watching then both but for whatever reason, connor always had more of a reason for me to keep going back to as a potentially great character. dawn was frustrating ( even as a teen girl watching it ) b/c she acted a bit too immature & that was entirely the writer's fault. it made up for it in later seasons but connor never got that chance. every time he would begin the build up to a complete character arc, the entire story would shift. also he is one of the few depictions of male sexual assault victims in media & unfortunately it was severely mishandled. no one, not even angel seems to notice or care about what happened to connor. like, yes, cordelia was posses ( when wasn't she in the show ) but in the aftermath, no one tried to help him, no one tried to understand he was a victim in all of it. he was a victim his whole life but he never was treated like one. he was never given any sort of redemption or revenge plot that felt satisfying in any way. the writers fumbled his character so profoundly it makes rewatching the show really difficult. i always get up to the kidnapping & usually stop watching then pick up once he's been placed with his new family.

Season 4 of Angel is the worst thing I have ever seen. I don't like Connor at all but this video made me think about it. I still cry when I remember what the show did to Cordy and I would to see more Buffyverse videos 💜

This video breaks down a lot of things I seen when first watching without really being able to put it into words.

I did like Connor but his character arc was crazy just never developed . He showed glimpses then he didn’t. It was mad bizarre you saw Cordelia help raise Connor with Angel and then months later he comes back from that hell dimension aged and him and cordeila sleep together… Cordeila would never have done that but we know something is up with cordeila and Jasmine took over Cordelia. It annoyed me more what they did to Cordelias character and only for her to come back in one episode in season 5 and die in the same episode… Also when you hear Connor say to Angel last episode of season 4 “You let him get me” you realise he knows how bad Holtz was. It was so annoying that he knew Holtz lied about Angel and he still hated Angel or just wanted love so much he couldn’t see the love Angel wanted to give him. However in season 5 you see how great Connor was and even when he gets his memories back he appreciates Angel for what all that happened and understood he did what he did. You get to see he knows that’s his dad and they fight together in the final episode ever even calling him dad. Connor loved Angel in the end and he appreciated that Angel gave Connor a chance to change his memories to have a happy life. Such a shame we didn’t get more of season 5 Connor in another tv series in season 6. However you do in the comics I hope people check that out always pains me we never got it on tv there was so much to happen especially with Connor his story is quite crazy in the comics from what I know and redeeming for his character a lot happens . Story just don’t end when the tv series end it continues in the comics !!🙌🏽

I always liked the conflict of connor. Everytime him and angel got close and it was just a scam etc it was a wrench to my heart. Loved it!!!

Here's why i (in very real life) can relate to Connor...... Connor was born into a situation that he never wanted nor asked for. So was i......Connor was manipulated by the person who raised him to hate his father due to a personal issue. So was i......Connor became withdrawn and antisocial due to his poor teachings and constant emotional exploitation. So did i.......Connor was on the verge of destroying himself before the father that he hated saved him from himself. So was i......So you see, i can never hate this guy! He is me.

To me Fred was the most tragic character. Sucked into a hell dimension, then to be killed by a ancient demon.😩

Angel taking Faith in was very different. Angel had his own appartment. This time Angel has mutliple people he's protecting at the Hyperion and Connor has proven he's dangerous.

Did him dirty, I was looking forward to him in season 5.

Jason todd and Connor. Teo dudes that had an amazing narrative window of potential storylines. But was bungled by bad author and lazy writing

8:05-9:00 In defense of Angel in the first episode of Season 4, he did drown over and over again for a couple months and he's not really the most stable minded. I mean yes he was sitting there and was spilling out truths and and seem to be stable since he drank Wesley's blood but he was still drowning over and over again which caused trauma. Within that time of constant drowning, he had various scenarios that pop through his head of meeting Cordelia on the beach, having dinner as a family but Connor is betraying him, and killing Connor for his betrayal and these scenarios are only the ones that we get to see in little snippets. I think that he turned away Connor because Connor was the one person that kept on disappointing Angel the most. Yes Faith try to turn him and kill him a couple times and yes Lindsey did plenty more than his share of violence towards Angel but Connor was the most close to Angel in terms of trust and love. We all saw how he reacted to Wesley after his betrayal back in season 3 so this reaction isn't really far-fetched for me. I think it would be kind of weird if he actually did try to kill Connor at that moment if he actually have the strength to. I guarantee if Buffy killed him out of malicious reasons, he would treat her the same way and probably would have left Sunnydale way before he did. Angel is very sensitive to the people that are close to him if they ever betray him. Especially those who have souls.

People hate Conor cuz they wanted the happy ending where he becomes Angels loyal son and greatest partner. But that doesnt happen. People say he didnt show growth……sure he did, he kinda grew into the main Big Bad of S4

I cried so much for Connor, Dawn and even Willow in these shows. They had suffered so much I couldn’t imagine the pain. Oh and as for monsters it was always damn Spike for me. Great memories watching these with my kids.

Season 4 is so painful to watch. Have to skip the whole season for rewatches now. Shame coz seasons 1,2 & 5 are absolutely golden.

I am looking to your videos on these characters: Lilah Morgan, Harmony, Cordelia, Fred and Gwen, In no particular order, of course

Honestly, I saw the title of this video in the Related videos and immediately said YES. I really liked him after he got help, too.

Hey! I love your videos and I was wondering would ever make a video for Paige from charmed?

I can’t stand Conner as a character, but I agree that his storyline is a very tragic one. And I do find myself very glad that he gets a new, happy life with a family.

😢 him and dawn got the sht end of the stick

Excellent video! He was a tragic character with a lot of potential that was unfortunately bypassed to be a tool for certain storylines. I liked the character but the way he was written made him not so fun to watch.

Less development than Dawn, but more substance, if that makes sense. Honestly the only Connor moments I like are the end of "Home" and the season 5 episode where we meet cyvus vail

this video made me cry

The problem with Angel, for me, was that every season was similar in 1 way & only 1 way: every season started off strong, & finished off weaker. Not that they were anywhere near as bad as season 4, which went from a 4* (out of 5*) to 1*. But I never enjoyed the second half of any Angel season. But about Connor specifically; I thought he was played wonderfully by Vincent Kartheiser, but yeah... I hated Connor the first time I watched Season 4. The second time I watched it, I hated him less, but I still hated the Season. Don't get me wrong, there were good episodes during that season. Even episodes I loved (5*). But most were absolute shite! No, I don't think Connor deserves the hate he gets, though he is still one of my least liked characters, even if we're talking about the "heroes" (Andrew is the character I actually hate). As much as I think Joss Whedon was a genius in many respects, he was also a horrible man. By Season 5 he'd killed off Cordelia. He destroyed Fred, & brought in Harmony to be the token woman of the show. That's why I hate Season 5, & was happy when it was the final season. Without Cordy or Fred, the show was nearly unwatchable.

This was excellent

Wow, this was extremely well put together I did not gather the bit about Holtz when I first watched it. Despite that I don't agree though. I think some people are unfixable. Some circumstances so tragic we don't see a person being able to break out of them and I think growing up in a hell dimension could be that! The idea of him needing his entire memories wiped temporarily to deal with it I think is fairly accurate. I literally don't think the show creators put a single foot wrong. Also, unlike with Dawn, the creators of the show seemed to be able to grip the psychology involved. After Connor killed Jasmine, Angel says that he is worried about him because he killed her with no emotion involved. So it's clear there is an awareness of the characters psychology. Even though it might have been annoying to some the show was cancelled it was too formulaic to go on for much longer... Here's a bad monster, bad monster killed. Another aspect of the interesting symbology of this, is that Angel takes the job at Wolfram and Heart in order to protect Connor. This is very like people having to make sacrifices to corporations, perhaps even moral sacrifices, to keep said jobs but that protect their loved ones.

Dawn and Connor are misunderstood characters they deserve some love and respect also can you make a video about illyria pretty please ❓

Great video really enjoyed it. However the character was written the way he was written and sure his up bringing had to do with his character along with the circumstances of his birth but aside from all that Connor was still a obnoxious angsty moody teenager who when given the chance or the benefit of the doubt betrayed the same people over and over and never made amends or apologized. I get the tragic back story but at some point based on how he was written Angels character got tired of fighting for someone who betrayed him and threw him in the ocean. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice well..

Connor is a younger version of Angel. I beleive that he was meant for Buffy in the long run or even Dawn.

Is that the guy (Conner) from Mad Men?

He was a very tragic charachter.

The actor who played Connor also played a villain in the show Titans. he was pretty good there.

I think he gets better in S5 and he wasn't bad in as a baby, but in S4 he was designed to be naïve at the Gaslighting Jasmine gave him and naïve about actual love from friends and family.

If I could change one thing about the character, I would have him discard the name Connor and take the name Holtz instead. This would have made him epically more tragic and helped grab the attention of the audience wanting to know what the name meant to him. He could reveal that he didn't take it because of the man Daniel Holtz, but to honour and remember the Holtz family. The innocent victims of Darla and Angelus. In a way, Connor and Holtz were both children of Angel/Angelus and Darla. One is born through an act of sacrifice and the other through cruel slaughter. By having this boy take the name of his parents victims, the writers could have combined centuries of suffering all into one character. Every time Angel looks at him he is forced to look at all of his past sins. Almost as if he is seeing his reflection in a mirror and is pained at what is looking back

I see a lot of my teenage self in Connor.. full of trauma, anger, and confusion

Wesley was supposed to be the smart one. He let a false prophecy trick him into thinking Angel would kill his son. Then he took Connor from the safety of the Hyperion to his house, only for the baby to be kidnapped and taken to another dimension.

Make a video about Lorne please

Connor was a layered character that was never given the chance to grow. His change in season 5 is nice, but it would have been better if we had two other seasons. This way instead of using magic to fix him if we could have seen him learn and grow on his own.

Holtz ruined Connor’s life just for revenge against Angel. Angel should have killed Holtz centuries ago.

Every family needs a scape goat

I don't know if I can agree that he is the most tragic character (Weasley and Fred are also very tragic). But, I will say Connor had/has the most potential that was unfortunately misused.

I'm really sorry for Connor and all characters because Joss Whedon wronged them. I never forget that Cordelia is closest thing to Connor he have as surrogate mom to him ever since when he was born after his biological mother Darla died sacrifice herself for him. Besides i wish Connor been raised by his biological dad Angel and his surrogate mom Cordelia, not being kidnapped and raised by Daniel Holtz in first place. I understand that he's victim of circumstances because of Jasmine/The Beastmaster, Sahjhan, Wolfram And Hart, Justine Cooper and Daniel Holtz. I wish there's more bond as family for Connor with his biological dad Angel and his surrogate mom Cordelia. I dislike everybody so very harsh on him after what he done. They're thinking they're more better self righteous than everybody. Don't get me wrong. I know Daniel Holtz is self righteous, pride and vanity before Angelus and Darla hurt his loved ones. I know show is over, but imagination lives on to create fanfiction.

In the weeds at Cambridge. 😊

I didnt hate him that much till the him and cordelia thing happened

Yeah, Connor could have been better, but I loved how tortured he was.

Connor has the potential to be a great character. He had from the moment of his creation been manipulated by horrific and tragic forces, abandoned, betrayed, groomed sexually and abused by those who tell him they love him. It’s amazing he wasn’t a dark empty shell. But they didn’t give him room to explore or grow. Counteract that with Wesley’s character arc. Wesley has Privilege and has tried to make is father proud but makes a mess of things but his growth with hunting, losing the group, finding love, being almost killed by Angel , losing Fred and having to work with the thing that killed her, looking at him with Fred’s face. It’s a thing of beauty.

I am a Connor sympathiser lol while he can be annoying he is a traumatised child and I think Buffy could have helped him.

I love season 4, I don't know how everyone hates it, Charisma did an amazing job, and transforming your favourite character into a villian, a main villian for me is genious. And, it is a TV show guys, calm down a little. I you don't like it, don't watch it.

I don’t remember him at all

He's usually in the top 3 on those lists.

Conner and Dawn are seriously underrated but also wasted potential....I would have loved to have had a meeting between all the scoobies/potentials and team angel/wolfram n hart (or a versus episode) Buffy - Angel (slayer vs champion) Willow - Fred (science vs magic) Xander - Gun (???) Dawn - Conner (miracle child vs miracle child Faith - Gwen Raiden (Dark Slayer vs Rogue theif) Robin Wood (son of a slayer vs slayer killer....rematch)

How could writers do this to a kid?

Yes, yes and yes.

He’s so annoying but his acting and writing is really good

I like connor

connor was complex

Wes imho

uh, yes, most likely