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@@zoltanwolfe1260 Yeah that goal would have been outrageous only a few weeks ago. Things have grown quickly recently. Definitely have to aim really high for the next challenge! :)
This seemingly ridiculous mode of movement is caused by 5e _retaining mechanics_ from previous game iterations: *without telling the players or DMs* the details of those mechanics. Previously, your "movement" speed - was during one movement action. During a round you could take two movement actions, or a movement action and a standard action during that 6 seconds. An unencumbered human could move 30 ft and attack or cast a spell: or take two movement actions in which case you could traverse 60 feet in 6 seconds, without running. In 5e, a double movement is called a "dash", *but the underlying mechanic isn't explained.* D&D 3.5e players handbook page 136 D&D 4e players handbook page 284 D&D 5e players handbook page 192 In earlier iterations - the movement speed wasn't how far you could travel in the one 6 second round: it was how far you could move and perform some other action in the 6 second round: how far you could move, if you were only moving and not doing anything else: was taking two movement actions during the 6 second in the round: and it was effectively double your movement speed assuming you were not hindered or encumbered in some way. So again, an unencumbered human who's movement was not hindered by brambles or difficult terrain could move 60 feet in 6 seconds. Also, again, this was not considered running: this was careful and deliberate movement - not vulnerable to attack the way someone is while running or squeezing through tight spaces or crawling, etc. etc. D&D 5e retained this exact mechanic: but because they simply gloss over the details with "dash" it leads to videos like this one with people thinking a person effectively "moves" 30 feet in 6 seconds (the entire round), because "dash" is treated as a special type of action, rather than understanding that your 30 foot _movement speed:_ is actually the distance you can traverse during *one movement action* - and you can take two such *movement actions* during a 6 second round, which does not count as "running". One of the biggest complaints made by those of us who played the earlier iterations of the game: people who've *only* played 5e do not fundamentally understand *basic game mechanics* because 5e's writers tried to gloss over things with shortcuts, in spite of those basic mechanics still actually being *in the game.*
Eventually this series will have to address the whole of turn economy. Movement, Action, Free action, Bonus action & whatever else you can fit into a single Normal turn order such as a reaction or A Opp. for the sake of the real 6 second turn timer. I think you will find that is a lot to get done in one round. Then do a 2 or 3 way full turn with each doing their full turn in the same 6 seconds.
For the record, 180 feet in 6 seconds is 30 feet per second, Usain bolt had to run about 34 feet per second when he set his world record in 2009. So, possible? Yes. Super human? Almost definitely. Certainly not a commoners feat.
But it was the record for 100m (~300ft) i guess, so for 180ft (~60m) he would be faster i'd assume. i'm not saying i could run that fast, despite being fairly fast on short distances, but my guess would be you have to be a trained sprinter but not necessarily a world record holder. :D Edit: okay turns out there is a 60m sprinting competition, and the record is 6.34s, so you'd have to be a world record holder. :D
@@Fabiundso Over 100m you don't tire too much if you're a top level runner. You actually go faster in the later part because if the first part you have to accelerate to max speed.
@@Fabiundso I've always considered the movement speed to irl pretty fair if not slow for a fantasy setting. It takes some work and effort to hit top tier irl speeds or go beyond.
It is a weird measurement, but the 5e phb says "you cam jump a number of feet equal to your strength score." And using the carrying capacity would make even less sense.
Totally!! We’re going to test it with jumping and lifting in the same video to see which makes more sense. Though I’m almost positive it will be jumping because commoner (STR 10) max carrying capacity is technically like 300 lbs and that’s nuts
Now imagine wearing armor, a backpack full of essentials, holding a greatsword, and whatever creature might be hiding on your person. That 6 second 30 foot lope is a lot harder to do. That is why these adventurers are a class above the "lowly commoner". They have strength and stamina that a normal person lacks....not to mention magic, potions, and the ability to heal one's self by just resting for an hour.
Really, as a modern day soldier, you carry weapons, backpacks and gear easily at matching those weights to the point where it feels normal. And soldiers are not Super Human
So I see characters as running for 3 seconds and then fighting for 3 seconds. Thats why they can move 30ft and then decide to dash another 30ft. So this basically doesn't take account of the time their action is taking up.
Also need to keep in mind that most characters are holding a lot of equipment. There is a comfortable speed you can go while carrying a full load which is about 3.4 miles an hour. Its not like humans CAN'T run faster its just you'll tire out very fast. The speed is good for long term sustainment over a long period of time. Usain bolt can run about 28 mph but for only about 100 meters. This is what explains monks being so fast.
Honestly, I'd say the D&D movement rates are honestly fairly accurate, allowing for appropriate levels of gamification (eg. you don't want a fairly small selection of movement rates, we expect adventurers to be peak physical ability, etc etc.). Of note, your final figure of max sprint speed / 4 comes out to be the base movement numbers! (Also, Grace is clearly a gnome) We also have to take in consideration that a turn in D&D is simulating what a character would do in 6 seconds of time, including observing the situation & decision making, & doing those actions loaded down with a typical adventurer equipment & inventory :p.
Yeah a lot more variables would go into seeing how fast someone can actually move. We may do a followup with some gear on and other tasks to do later in this miniseries!
@@panwall1327 That's not that much weight when distributed evenly over the body like well made armor should be. Hell modern soldiers full carry weight is around 70lbs and that can move at least that fast. Also keep in mind that these fights last for less than 1 minute on average and you get in maybe 5 fights a day when actively adventuring.
I have to disagree on this. Your whole turn is the 6 seconds. That include your actions, your bonus action, and reaction (if used). For indepth mathematics. Take a Human Monk, at level 20, we get a base movement speed of 60ft, if we add Haste we can suddenly go up to 120ft, which also gives 1 extra action. So we get 120ft of movement, 4 attacks (Extra attack gives 2 attacks per attack action) and +2 attacks with Flurry of Blows as a bonus action. And all that happens in 6 seconds. Not just the movement. So each attack will need to take less than 1 second, otherwise you wouldn't be moving, and moving 120ft can be for the full 6 seconds duration, so if we use 3 seconds to move, then we are attacking once every 0.5 seconds, which also means we moved at a speed of 40ft per second. Which makes this human just slightly slower than Usain Bolt. Usain Bolt top speed record is 44.72km/h which is 40.76ft per second. But what if we take just a regular fighter? Well we would still only have 30ft movement, but we would also have 8 attacks (Extra attack at level 20, gives 4 attacks instead of 1, with 1 action surge per turn up to 2 times). This would mean using the same time as with the monk, a movement of 10ft per second, but attack 1 time per 0.375 second. So moving really slow, but attacking like sonic on drugs. Which only makes the Wizards, and other spell casters, who has limits to their spell casting, like alright, in one turn, you can cast one spell, using the same calculation. They move at snail phase and cast their spells in snail phase as well. Worst is, when they have a duration that is not instant, that means a lot. Instead of using 3 seconds to cast a spell, it takes multiple turns, even worse if they don't move at all, which makes the character just slower in comparison. Then we have the problem about the Movement speed in general: It is not a sprint, it is not running, it means anything that moves, so you *walk* faster than running. So yeah, it is quite unrealistic. XD
@@DraconiusDragora I dunno man, a Lv 20 is like best fighter known to man level, and I’ve seen MMA people or martial artists and shit do more grabs/kicks/punches than 3 per second. You’re talking Bruce Lee legends at that point. And saying they are fast with Haste and it’s not realistic is literally the point. Haste is a magic spell that makes you go faster, without being a literal wizard you’re not supposed to be that fast lol. I’d say that stuff is pretty accurate overall for sure
"Hey, guys, can you ease off the pace a bit? I'm getting knackered here.", me, an ageing human commoner trying to keep up with a party of gnomes and halflings.
Twenty years ago some friends and I did bench presses to find out what our strength scores would be. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Not to nerd out on you, but the "max press" stat wasn't how much you could bench press, it was how much weight you could pick up and lift over your head. Basically a clean and jerk.
@@thetruth-hl7ct I once rolled a fighter and got a 20 for one of my stat rolls. Of course I put that into strength. Thanks to my race and class bonuses I had well over 20STR. I forget the actual stat, I think it might have been 24 or 25. When the DM looked that up because it was so high, he wanted to see how much weight that would actually lift. He said essentially my character could lift a portcullis by myself.
@@eduardopena5893 I don't know how you could roll a 20 on a 3d6, but regardless a strength of 25 would match a fire giant. I'm pretty sure they could lift a portcullis with ease...right before they tear it from the barbican.
@@thetruth-hl7ct This was about 30 years ago when I was a teen. So maybe it was 18 and +3 for the racial/class bonus? I don't recall. All I remember is that the DM was pretty impressed.
@@eduardopena5893 I had a "homebrew" rule that allowed people to roll a 1d8-1 if they rolled an 18 to give them the chance at having up to 25 on one of their stats. Totally against the rules but still fun. I had a human with a 24 strength. Kind of a bad idea because of balancing issues. I could hit and kill things that were my level with ease but if the DM wanted to put a creature in strong enough to take my hits then I would get wrecked if i didnt kill it in the first round.
To be fair to Steven, a Hasted character is having their personal time increased, so realistically the cones should have been moved closer together, then had the video stretched out to fit in post
@@shroogssen I mean, each square is a "5x5ft square" so in reality it doesn't matter what you call it if you're just counting by squares. Definitely don't need to learn imperial to get it
I think one thing that is also overlooked is that you’re not just moving in six seconds. You are also, most of the time, taking an action and bonus action. Even with the dash action, you’re still trying to maneuver around obstacles that can affect you’re movement, such as other creatures, spells, or terrain that isn’t just flat. I feel like initially, it’s confusing why you move so slow, but when you think about it, it kind of does make sense.
Yeah I think toward the end of whatever this little series becomes, we'll have done videos about attacks and other object interactions, etc. Then we can follow up see try to combine all of it into the things a character actually does
Also, I wanted to make the point of actually moving in combat being fairly different from just walking, jogging, or running. I've done MMA and wrestling for a long time now and movement in a proper stance while moving safely with your hands up in a proper stance is much slower then just jogging, but that trade off In speed is greatly made up for in a, I guess you'd call it an increase in ac and like activating your proficiency bonus in combat. Like sure I could just rush my opponent and get to him really fast, but I'd get there not in my fighting stance and not ready to counter or sprawl. I don't know what a realistic movement speed is when in a proper stance is, but I do definitely think it'd be much slower then loping.
@@BobWorldBuilder I think what you will find is that this movement speed "per round" has simply carried over from 1e unchanged due to... laziness? obliviousness? shirt-sightedness? momentum? ...but in 1e and 2e a "round" was 60 seconds. (!) Plenty of time to get your move (or even double move) in, even in the chaos of a battlefield. So my guess is that no one ever looked at "is this realistic for 5e. I bet wargamer Gary and his associates thought about it a lot in OD&D and AD&D 1e. In Basic I think a round was 10 seconds but that may have varied in different iterations of Basic.
Guys... guys... this, this was great. More informative, groundbreaking, scientific studies of DnD mechanics are needed! Your social dynamic and lighthearted humor was a joy. And the video editing, the pacing, was on point! This might be my favorite video yet.
I think it might be my favorite too. Not gonna lie I spent a looooooot of time editing this one, but I feel like the end product was totally worth it! Thank you :)
I always thought of combat being more like 3 seconds of movement and 3 seconds of action, hence the ability to dash and double your movement. I also thought of the movement portion as including decision making and taking which is why you can't trade your movement for an action. All that's just head cannon though.
I've definitely thought about this, too. 3 second movement, 2 second action, 1 second bonus action. Fighters/monks get multiple attacks because they have so much training that it's like a flurry.
I definitely remember reading in AD&D 2e's PhB that combat involved all those things. Also, that a single attack - even a successful one - actually involved a lot of assessment, back-steps, side-steps, clinking swords, misses, etc..
This is cool and all but, you forgot the Tabaxi fighter with haste using action surge! Cool video guys. Honestly never thought of the fact that getting up costs 3 seconds
Yeah speed can get realllly ridiculous! And I'm sure adventurer's can get up faster, but if you're wearing armor and carrying weapons, I imagine 3 seconds might still check out
I'd say a hasted tabaxi monk would be even more ridiculous than a fighter one. Just a 2nd level tabaxi monk with haste and Step of the wind can move 640 feet. Double that for a level 18 or higher monk. And if you have a mobile feat? Well that's just another bit to add to that
@@BobWorldBuilder Well remember all creatures get up in 3 seconds time. However taking the Athlete feat means you no longer get up in 3 seconds of time, you now get up in 5 feet of movement.
PROTIP: find a treadmill with speed in MPH (most I've used). 30ft/6 seconds = 3.4 MPH, which is a brisk walking pace but nothing extraordinary. Doubling that to 6.8mph is a jogging pace/slow running pace for a reasonably fit person. I house ruled that if using the Dash action, players can also choose to give up their bonus action to "Sprint," tripling their speed (Move+Action+BonusAction). Originally I made Sprinting 4x, but this feels too much for most maps we use, also have to account for the weight of all that gear they carry. For perspective, real world olympic sprinters can sustain average speeds over "5x" base movement.
Absolutely make more. I don't often comment, but I when I see good content I gotta say it. Supremely well laid out, edited and approachable. You and Grace have great chemistry and it really made it feel like we were there having fun alongside you guys. I also like the sorta "Family friendly" feel of your channel. It feels like I could trust you to show my kids to play DnD. Honestly great content. Hope to see more from you, Bob!
I really appreciate that! Yes, we aim to keep our language and topics family friendly even though most of the videos (me sitting at a desk talking about rules) would be boring for kids :P
This video is quality content. In my teens I spent HOURS of, then plentiful, game time discussing the realism of rules (that would be 3.5) and how things should work out in the game - and it was just part of our fun. Thank you - I was smiling all the way through.
Yeah, in self defense you’re taught that a knife wielding attacker can travel 33 feet in 1 second. In the military, you might be expected to move 30 feet in 6 seconds with 120lbs of gear, so dnd movement is actually still incredibly slow.
@@urfork1 Seems pretty fast. The research from Dennis Tueller found an average person can close about 21 feet gap in about 1.5 seconds. But people tend to have a much faster reaction time, estimated around 0.2-0.3 seconds. But still important to train, especially for if they do close the gap.
@@urfork1 Exactly. Without all the super extra bonuses in DnD, it treats your character as if they have no athletic ability whatsoever. The Standing From Prone penalty is particularly unrealistic, especially considering someone can just roll back into a standing position to maintain movement while avoiding attacks. If bags of holding weren't a thing, these penalties would make sense because of all the extra weight. But bags of holding do exist.
I have never seen anybody interpret the Dash rules like that. As a Rogue, if you use the Dash bonus action, you don't get a Dash full action on top of that, it means, you can Dash as a bonus action and still do a full action like Attack or Use Item or Pick Lock or such, but not Dash as a full action. It is the same as with casting a spell as a bonus action, you can't also cast another spell as a full action.
@@StarlasAiko there is literally nothing saying you can't use more than one dash action a turn, unlike casting levelled spells as a bonus action. Just like the Attack action, or any other action- you don't get one a turn, it's just a way you can use the resource. By that logic fighters wouldn't be able to use their action surge to make more attacks, because they already used their Attack action.
Worth recognizing that the five-foot step is actually just a bit shy of the Roman Legionnaire's "pace", 1000 of which make up the "mile" (from the Latin for "one thousand").
Fun video! I remember doing a similar “test” at some point with friends when we “argued” over the speed being “wrong” 😂 the other thing we “tested” was the jump distances - that went... just as you’d imagine.
I like to imagine the reason is that when you're using movement like this ingame, its almost invariably in combat, where you have to move while keeping an eye out for some horrible gribbly to jump out at you or similar, and attack in the same 6 seconds.
A Tabaxi monk 18/fighter 2 has a base movement speed of 70. Under the effects of haste, that speed doubles to 140. However the tabaxi can choose to double their speed one one of their turns, so they can temporarily have a movement of 280. That's just their movement, they can still use their action to attack at this point. So if they move on their turn, and then take the dash action, use their hasted action to dash, spend 1 ki point to dash as a bonus action, and then action surge to, you guessed it, dash again, they would move 5 times their movement speed on one turn. A movement speed which had already been quadrupled. They would move 1400ft in 6 seconds, or about 256 km/hr.
1400ft in 6 seconds, or about 233 feet per second (~71 Meters per second). A modern Bow can fire an arrow between 250-300 feet per second. If we assume that common D&D bows are not as advanced as ours, there is an argument to be made that your Tabaxi could outrun an incoming arrow. Bonus, using this movement speed down a vertical surface using the 9th level "Unarmored Movement Improvement" feature, this Tabaxi could almost catch up with someone dropping headfirst at terminal velocity. (About 240 feet per second)
Now do a hasted tabaxi rogue/fighter for a total of 480ft (haste + feline agility = 120ft base. action dash, cunning action dash, haste dash, action surge dash) which requires running at 54.55 mph
I would argue that it is quite realistic. As the concept of thinking, attacking, talking, etc. Are all calculated in that 6 seconds. If you were just moving, then just focusing on moving would feel really slow. Also it was mentioned that you can move in any direction, so going from a straight line to a zig zag would make you loose some speed, and in addition to that, going from simple grassy field to sandy beach or some other terrain that would not be classified as "difficult" could also make you move slower.... Though if you feel that this is too slow, then just shorten rounds to 4 or 5 seconds, just keep in mind that some other things could not be done in the time frame that may normally be completed.
@@BobWorldBuilder you could make an assumption that 3d6 represents the general distribution of abilities in the population. That way, an 18 represents the top 0.46% of the population, etc.
Please, moving 30 ft. in a turn does not mean "walking". You're fighting, paying attention all around you, attacking, keeping track of enemies that might just give you an opening for an attack of opportunity... That means you do move fast, because the rest of the time you spend doing all these things. If you ONLY move, then you get to move further. Also, thank you for noticing that keeping max movement throughout combat is not sustainable. I think a lot of people miss that in the games. They may look slow sometimes, but the characters are working their asses off in those 6 seconds.
Glad you didn't test the movement speed for 2e. That was a mess, especially because it was given in units that only the biggest of nerds could actually read. Also, the rules for running, sprinting, double sprinting, triple sprinting, endurance running, running proficiency, haste, etc. were so confusing that most DMs just didn't use them...
It would be!! We're going to do a STR video at some point then hopefully revisit movement (all after the difficult terrain one) to see what add some weight can do
Very interesting video but generally when you are moving in combat you can't run at full speed because even monks with no armor usually carry lots of gear and you also have to conserve energy to fight while if you run all out you might be so exhausted that you wouldn't have any stamina left for anything else.
This is pretty interesting. I honestly never even thought about testing speed in real life, seeing as we are throwing fireballs and black holes LOL. Awesome stuff
The average person walks at about 3-4 mph, which falls into the realm of 5 feet per second. Which would be 30 feet in 6 seconds. A jog is about 6-7 mph. Which is about 10 feet per second. So if you move 30' and then dash 30' you are effectively jogging. A normal person can run at about 10 mph, Olympic level athletes are more like 25 mph. 10 mph is roughly 15 feet per second. So when a rogue uses movement, action and bonus action to dash then they are effectively running at about 10 mph.
No The dash avction simply means you soend the entire 6 seconds moving at a "hustling/jogging" pace 3 seconds for move action 3 seconds for standard action Walking 30' in 6 seconds mean 30' in a move action is 3 seconds and therefore hustling Therefore you "hustle/jog" the entire 6 seconds is the dash action
Dude holy crap I was going to do this same thing but man you did it way better! Y’all are great together too! Amazing... absolutely ground breaking dnd science
Thanks Coach!! I could see you doing a great breakdown of Olympic athlete speeds and comparing crazy dnd character speeds to other fast objects. That would be a great mix of your coach and teacher knowledge!
Well, your movement is how far you can move, conservatively, and still have time for an action. I think they got it about right without making the game mechanic ridiculously complicated. Math is your friend... 30ft in 6 sec is 3mph - we actually walk about 4 mph. The result that it's about right to move that distance and take an action is completely predictable. /shrug
Not to mention in those seconds the do their action and bonus action and interection on like 50% of the time. How about moving the 30ft while casting a spell. Drinking a potion and picking up the dagger
You should calculate your average strength scores based on push/carry/lift and high and long jumps. However I don't recommend trying a video where you calculate your Constitution by holding your breath under water for 5 minutes like the average Adventurer can.
recommendation for dms: default race speed for walking, 50% more speed for jogging and doble than default for sprinting, remove 5 feet of speed per corner travelled to get to the objective
In high school I could run the 100m in 11.5s, that's 328 feet. So becomes 171 feet in 6s. Sustained running is harder. I could do the 400m in about a minute. So 1313 feet in 60s, or 131 feet per 6s.
@@BobWorldBuilder Your other ideas from the poll sound nice just watch for your health. No need to starve yourself for a video or pull anything. Tho down the road maybe a follow up video where you try movement with equipment.
The fastest 40 yard fash time is 4.22 second in order to get the 180ft you would need to run a 4second 40 yard dash with keeping that pase for 20more yards.
It’s worth noting that when you go to do speed tests while wearing heavy gear. If you are a fit person then the extra weight isn’t going to noticeably reduce your running speed, but it will exhaust you much faster. People have done tests while wearing full suits of plate armor and it’s been found that a knight in full plate is a deadly sprinter but a terrible marathoner.
Just extra info. In Highschool Football we ran 40 yard dashes. 40 yds is about 120 ft. The range tended to be 4 - 7 seconds depending on how in shape you were. I would say that football pads would count as light armor as they weigh about 13 lbs or 6 kg and are just foam and hard plastic. A similar weight to leather/studded leather armor.
@@BobWorldBuilder why? :) Did you doubt them? The main offender regarding speed is the daily traveling distance when out on a hike. but the in combat speed is quite realistic :)
I always thought my irl stats were the following, with 18 as max and stat average being 9/10 STR: 13 Dex: 16 Con: 12 Int: 14 Wis: 17 Cha: 10 I also seem to have • fast movement • athletics • observant looks like I'm playing a monk, or maybe a ranger with my outdoor experience.. Of course everyone rates themselves "above average" and there may be some Dunning-Kruger playing a role here... Maybe I'll ask my friends what they think my stats would be...
@@ghosty918 *shrugs* there are many types of intelligence/wisdom, and it's hard to separate entirely. I have high self emotional and mental awareness, skill in reading others, observant, rapid problem solving on the fly and under pressure, or just "figure things out". I understand what I want out of life, the importance of family and friends, and make decisions to balance this. I did go to college, got a B.S., but I was never a great student. I generally just study & teach myself whatever interests me at the time. I work in the medical field, and others rate me highly intelligent, but it's definitely not book smarts.
You forgot the important part, the only part that actually matters... Movement speed only really exists IN COMBAT. It's a measure of how far you can move while remaining fighting fit. It may seem slow, but that's because you're not avoiding attack and watching the battlefield. Also, as far as I'm aware you're only allowed to dash ONCE on your turn no matter how many actions you have. I could be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure that's stated in the rules.
Well technicallllllllllllly (and I have to do this because I've been reading up on the travel pace rules), the normal travel pace of 24 miles in 8 hours can be reduced to 3 mph or 4.4 fps, which is the same as 26.4 feet in six seconds. So it's quite close to how characters move when travelling as well!