Is Dynamo becoming too difficult to manage?

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Covering a difficult topic today, but one I've wanted to discuss for a while now today - is Dynamo becoming too difficult to manage (at scale, for typical users, for its managers etc.)? I hope it proves valuable to the ongoing discussion around related topics out there, and rubs everyone the right way! I love using Dynamo and hope to see it have a bright future, but I think there are some steps needed to ensure that remains the case.
0:00 Intro
1:48 The good
4:42 The bad
6:42 The ugly
11:00 Tips for managing at scale
13:34 Alternatives to Dynamo at scale
15:18 Dynamo will not scale if...
16:06 The IronPython dilemma
18:28 Ways to deal with it
21:50 Installing IronPython package
23:36 The verdict
25:50 Outro
I hope you enjoy the session and learn something new! Feel free to comment any feedback/questions below, or follow my channel if you enjoyed this.
Learn more about Dynamo at;
primer.dynamobim.org/
Software used;
Autodesk Revit 2020: www.autodesk.com/products/rev...
Dynamo: dynamobim.org/
DaVinci Resolve: www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/p...
OBS: obsproject.com/
Hardware used;
Webcam: support.logitech.com/en_us/pr...
Laptop: www.msi.com/Workstation/WT75-...
Microphone: www.jbhifi.com.au/products/ro...
Audio interface: focusrite.com/en/usb-audio-in...
#revit #dynamo #bim

Опубликовано:

5 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 55

@dynamo_scripts 4 месяца назад

Great video. At one moment, I discussed with Sol that Autodesk should pay package developers some money. That would be a small fee for Autodesk but it will create some obligation that developers maintain packages. It will take a couple more years until Dynamo creates a solid base of native nodes. I would not say that the new Dynamo users are lazy, they just think that a Dynamo script is a finished product and that you just need to click on the play button in Dynamo player and that script will work in all versions and all cases.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Unfortunately most developers don't have a cost issue (most of us have a fulltime job and do it for fun), it's a time issue. Autodesk could pay us whatever they want, but it wouldn't really get many authors time back in their already full days. It would be difficult to find a price that suits all economies as well. Whilst some countties might be thrilled to get $30/hour for example; for many in my country that would be less than our normal job's salary. Its important as dynamo users if you plan to use it long term that you/your firn are ready to invest time in learning it in depth over time and eventually becoming capable of not needing as many packages - just the reality of companies utilizing open source these days.

@decognito0 4 месяца назад

Hello Gavin, I am Emrullah Yildiz from Dynamo Team. Thank you very much for your insights. These feedbacks are very valuable, especially packages. As a team, we will consider the options for a solution. Meanwhile, if you have any suggestions for any of the problems, please feel free to reach out. It would be great to catch up and listen your insights.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Thanks Emuilah! As discussed via LI glad it was a good video and will be sure to be in touch with the team whenever suits.

@DesignTechUnraveled 4 месяца назад

4:03 thanks for the shoutout! It's definitely not always easy making sure stuff remains compatible between releases, but it is just about always doable. Back when Dynamo transitioned from 1.x (XML based) to 2.x (json based), I actually converted all of Rhythm from Python/OOTB nodes to C# because of the lack of backward compatibility between versions. If I were a python package author today, I would look at either migrating fully to Cpython or enabling zero touch (c#) execution of my nodes. But that is a whole other challenge. This current challenge of getting it all to work between Revit versions was very similar, but I am happy with my solution that is documented on the thread you linked below. Fun personal Dynamo fact, the first version of Dynamo I used in Revit was Dynamo 0.6.3, when it was mostly available in Autodesk's Project Vasari at the time (2013).

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

But of course! Your thread on the options RE where to take Rhythm got me thinking about this topjc ever since. I admire the ingenuity and dedication you've given to Rhythm and general Dynamo support in this space, it's highly valuable to the community and people hoping to keep Dynamo alive at their firms. I'm in the process of learning C# in the context of Revit and if I can find the time I'll likely look into ZT from there. I can see the value in leaving behind the middle ground that is Python in the longer run, although it's all still so far beyond what my average day demands. Those outside work hours are drying up as life comes for them (marriage, house hunting, eventuality of kids - I know you can relate!). I did actively try to frame this constructively and not to the detriment of everyone's hard work in the community and developer team, I'm aware historically I haven't always been as supportive/understanding of Dynamo as I should have been (pyrevit tiffs and all). Time away from the socials has definitely helped me get a better perspective on things in life/work, hoping to stay positive/constructive in future.

@bimpure 4 месяца назад

Nice recap! I think Dynamo feels accessible for a lot of users, while coding with Python/C# feels more intimidating. For small and medium firms, developing a toolbar in house seems like a daunting task, while it's a no brainer for larger firms. So, smaller practices like to keep Dynamo for most of their automation. I would also agree the Dynamo community is still active, and we're lucky to have folks such as Jacob, Sol, John and others keeping the flame. And the Dynamo updates are usually helpful.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Thanks Nicolas, generally I agree that firm scale and user ability/skillsets will dictate the best approach. One big caveat I have to add is that smaller firms still nedd to properly invest in Dynamo, which often does not happen in my experience. The only fallback from there is addins, but most small firms don't have the budget. They'll have to pay with money or time at the end of the day. Competitor firms are likely often going to be ahead of firms of any scale if they are early in their computation journey, so it's a bit harder to wow some clients with that alone I think. The community is active, but the platform in the case of Revit is quite fractured. Very hard to develop cross Revit build and a lot of old/janky packages people are still using. Therein comes the need for firms of any scale to invest time to manage it all.

@dustinfoth5234 4 месяца назад

Haha, that has been my experience on the forums. However, I'm the type of user that tries to learn things and do the work. Jacob Small has been extremely helpful. I like that he explains things enough so that I learn. Others, have been short answerers but its understandable.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Yes Jacob goes above and beyond, and is extremely patient with newer users that dont often provide much evidence of having tried to solve the problem first. The main reason we encourage it is eventually when coding gets more complex there are less safety nets or people with time at that experience level to help so its always good to have a good try first.

@bimdux 4 месяца назад

I have learned alot from your channel in the past and now, for this I thank you very much. back to the topic, the biggest setback I experienced with dynamo is for none dynamo user they don't have the necessary package installed to run the script I built for them, then it will become a hurdle to install package for newbies. With current trend on ChatGPT and AI coding, developing custom add-on using C# and Revit API became much easier.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Whilst I think copilots definitely help, they are a ways from writing functional code for non-coders in my experience. Will be interesting to see where the future takes the technology.

@dustinfoth5234 4 месяца назад

Orkestra has been a life saver. Thanks Mostafa

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Sure is for some firms!

@ningzhou8397 4 месяца назад

my current solution is ONLY using OOTB nodes + Python nodes, do hope factory can make Python nodes more user friendly like built-in intellisense autocomplete stuff

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

That was my approach for a while also before switching to pyRevit.

@patrickpodeyn7582 4 месяца назад

Great points about the current state of Dynamo. I'm very fortunate to work at SSOE Group and work on a team that is dedicated working on maintaining Dynamo for the company. As of now, we are using Dynamo as a testing ground for potential ideas to potentially be converted into plugins. We utilize Orkestra as our tool to distribute workflows and packages across our entire company.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Great to hear from someone making it work at scale! Congrats on both getting the business buy-in but also the team collaboration that was no doubt necessary to make it work Patrick. Always nice to see familiar names on the channel as well, I recognize the name from LinkedIn.

@patrickpodeyn7582 4 месяца назад

@@AussieBIMGuru Yes, we are fortunate enough to have C-suite level buy in which makes this more manageable but still has it's share of challenges. Hopefully we can meet in person at a conference in the near future!

@DanielGijsbers 4 месяца назад

This is why I have started using and advising companies to start using a DevOps approach to dynamo development. It's a bit much at the beginning but it will scale once your company also wants to develop further.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Yep as per LI agree that's generally a good decision!

@lukeselvon 4 месяца назад

I've only been using dynamo for about a year but the scripts I've created have become a massive part about how the complany I work for wants to use revit in the future. We have a close relationship with a developer, would you recomend we get the dev to recreate the most important scripts as a plug-in? The way we are using dynamo means if it stopped working we would have huge problems, feel like we are in a very risky possition after seeing this video.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Fear not, but do discuss with your developer how they plan to handle versions, dependencies and emerging changes in Dynamo's future. Focus on having them develop tools which scale of suits vs 1 off solutions as they will never be presented with these real challenges if everything is a spot fire. Understand that as a firm engaging their services you have a responsibility to anticipate and brief the challenges and goals for this developer also. You would be remiss not to at least ask how these tools scale into the future.

@jasontian9450 4 месяца назад

Hi Gavin, do you think is there a way to host all dynamo packages on GitHub and all pyrevit package on it too? This would solve a lot of setup on server side, which heavily rely on VPN connection

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

It would definitely help as the user could use github desktop to push/pull latest if you pathed packages and pyrevit extensions to your github mirrored repos. The catch is that do this I believe all users would need to have an enterprise account.

@amelnaitamer9305 4 месяца назад

Hello, it was a great video, it gives me a lot of informations since I am a new user of dynamo, I want to know if using dynamoSandbox alone is better than using it with revit ? also I want to use the refinery toolkit in dynamo but for some reasons it doesn't work when I install it, so I whould like to know if generative design provided by default in dynamo do the same thing than refinery ?

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Generative design comes with revit 2021 onwards and refinery as far as I know is not supported anymore as it was before gen design. Sandbox is really just for testing Dynamo itself given it has no access to Revit and other applications. I dont use it personally.

@danielarmenta8235 4 месяца назад

I love dynamo but the issue for me is packages. Some are missing, some great nodes not work depending on the versión. It makes you feel that you need to learn python to use dynamo in the way you want.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

I think ultimately that is the takeoff - if Dynamo is a tool you wish to make work in complex ways beyond what it offers ootb, you will eventually need to learn Python or C#.

@petsandpaws8906 4 месяца назад

As an engineer for HVAC systems for big housing projects, we are forced (by standards) to use the Revit version in which the Architect modelled the building. That means, we often use versions which are 3 to 4 years old. Most of my current projects are still in R22 atm. But theres a few in R23 and 2 in R24 aswell. But most of the time we are using multiple versions at the same time. I made a pyRevit toolbar with custum tools, some dynamo scripts and 3 python scripts. Ive learned a lot from your older videos!

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

That's what I like to hear! I've found pyRevit's ability to easily span multiple versions has been a lifesaver vs Dynamo.

@alishapalakkal6867 4 месяца назад

Hello,You mentioned you would add the link for the forums discussing the future of Dynamo, in the comments section.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Indeed, this is the thread I was referencing; forum.dynamobim.com/t/rhythm-for-dynamo-availability-question-for-the-community/92707

@AliMaher-qb4zq 4 месяца назад

I agree 100% with your conclusion. I've never felt that Dynamo is sustainable for the long run. I've started using PyRevit and Revit PythonShell now, but I still find Dynamo necessary for specific tasks.

@burtan2000 4 месяца назад

Great. I just started Revit a few months ago and Dynamo about a few weeks ago. At first i was angry, thinking it was mostly needed to do things that Revit SHOULD do. There are some counterintuitive things of Revit that i strongly dislike. So after a few weeks of watching videos and playing around several hours everyday, i can’t tell you why my “graphs” work or why they don’t work. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. So i can’t really teach anyone.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Glad we landed on similar conclusions Ali! Burtan understand that being so early in your Revit journey and even moreso in Dynamo it will be a bit like that for a while. Most people spend years in Revit before even finding out about Dynamo, and it takes most users at least 3-6 months before it really clicks and you feel in some sort of personal control of it I think. Only teach once you feel ready. If your firm is pressuring you to do this it may be worth investing time in a comprehensive course or resource. I provide one here if it helps get started more easily: courses.bimguru.education/courses/course-dynamo-4revit Dynamo was genuinely frustrating for me for at least my first year using it, but there were less resources at the time i could fall back on. Hopefully it improves for you sooner than it did for me!

@AliMaher-qb4zq 4 месяца назад

I'm already in your course@@AussieBIMGuru 😁

@AliMaher-qb4zq 4 месяца назад

I now have the basics of Python and I'm currently taking Eric Frits' course for Revit API. Your course is really good for beginners, and I'm looking forward to the next one because you are a great teacher.@@AussieBIMGuru

@minimemarcus88 4 месяца назад

Nice video Gav. Why will Revit 2025 bring challenges to your current PyRevit workflows?

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Revit 2025 will be changing to target a higher net framework. There will be some older python features/libraries which stop working and need different approaches. Overall it is for the better, but it means we will see some addins/python scripts become less compatible come 2025 and/or need editing.

@PANDURANG99 4 месяца назад

There will be python or not in next year?

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

There will be python as far as I know but some things might not be as directly supportef such as microsoft interop depending on whether IronPython remains.

@amoursol 4 месяца назад

We 100% support Python moving forward into the future of Dynamo with CPython3 out of the box, and IronPython3 available on the Package Manager. Due to the signifiant .NET8 changes IronPython2.7 will no longer work in future versions I'm afraid. This change was a global Autodesk one - and not one we could opt out of. If we didn't update to .NET8 there would be no Dynamo. But, it does come with some significant gains at the base, such as 30-40% performance increases across some scripts, in particular with UI actions, and opens the door to many other cool features we can now explore.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

@@amoursol thanks Sol, the future of Dynamo is jn good hands!

@HyunWooKim_EnjoyRevit 4 месяца назад

Can't imagine Dynamo without python...

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

Me neither!

@DanielGijsbers 4 месяца назад

Dynamo without python is as pasta without sauce.

@MohamedMagdy-zz4lb 4 месяца назад

Python Node Vs C# node like bicycle Vs rocket

@AussieBIMGuru 4 месяца назад

@@MohamedMagdy-zz4lb and we all know how much longer it takes to build a rocket. If our tool only needs to get us to the corner store then a rocket is not always needed 😉

@MohamedMagdy-zz4lb 4 месяца назад

@@AussieBIMGuru yes that's true but of course i'm talking about large scale scripts , as a company if you have developed your own dll contains all nodes would needed you will take a while developing these nodes but this will save alot of time ahead. We have made a comparison between c# and python nodes in a large script imagine the efficiency! It was 3700% !!!