Is EU5 Going To Be TOO COMPLICATED? 

What do you think about everything we talked about today?

Hope it can be good but feel like what made EU4 great is that while complex it still had an "arcade" feeling to it, could micro as much as you wanted or just chill & paint maps.

Given how casual and easy Vic3&Ck3 were, i'd be surpised. gotta get those console sales.

I was so disapointed with how 'streamlined' CK3 and Vicky 3 were. this absolutely does look more dense, but honestly that's what I want. I personally play grand strategy games for my autistic spreadsheet game with map painting. the main thing I want is a lot of this to be viably automated, because I've seen how the AI manages shit in other paradox games, it's beyond braindead. if you're going to make shit complex, you need to let newer players automate parts of this while they focus on learning key mechanics one by one

Paradox is triyng to solve that late game boringness. The devs are triyng to make a game that is playable in 2x time, not 5x. with a lot of thinking before acting. It may works, but, they may create a too complicated game. I don't want an excel Spreadsheet to play. I want a game to realx and enjoy. I have plenty of Spreadsheet in my work to have that in my free time... I don't know, but I expect that they can balance that situation.

As a Victoria 2 enthousiast: why wasn’t Victoria 3 like this?

a grand strategy game should be complicated unlike vic 3 and ck3

It's just feels good everytime you upload a video about eu5

@3:00 I had mentioned this on a previous episode were you talked about pops, and it is looking very reminiscent of the layout for Empire : Total War (minus the peasant/noble bit). And it was very easy to manage, I don't foresee this being any more difficult aside from maybe having to juggle/handle events. I remember in that game too characters that had a certain faith would automatically spread it in the area they were in, so if that carries over too that would be swell

I don't think it will be too complicated, EU4 after ten years is stacked with mechanics, that's hard to beat. But I do think that it will offer too many mechanics you just don't care about. Every province having 30 micro-pops, every building needing stuff - all that sounds fun when you're tiny, but it will be a nuisance you're just ignoring after a couple of games.

It rather reminds me an updated version of Imperator Rome. The Mechanics are very similar indeed.

I love the spreadsheets please give me more, glad that they arent going the vic3 UI route

Im so glad it will be complicated 🥰

The pops and micromanagement stuff has me a bit concerned as things like that keep me away from games like Victoria 2. I know realism is something people have heated discussions over in games like this, but I wonder when too much realism just becomes... not fun and a chore lol But the changes to cultures/different religions has me excited, especially stuff like Norse religion having a presence or Syriac. I am hoping that Egypt gets more Coptic options or events/flavoring. Definitely looking forward to the Russia video!

Vic 2-like pops, CK-like characters and the rest of EUIV mechanics and setting, this game is shaping up to be a dream come true

Hi hope the people reading this has a good day

Honestly much prefer a more complex paradox game than whatever we get, paradox games are and should be complicated its kind of the point almost

I was really hoping for a more updated EU4 in terms of gameplay and mechanics, but the more I see of this the more I see its like a version of Victoria. Eu4 is my favorite paradox game and this hurts my soul.

I'm with you, love all the complexity presented by the pops but I hope there's a way to supply their needs on authomatic.

Hair looks great!

This is the game I want.

Absolutely looking way too much like Vicy 2/3 for my taste. I've seen enough to already know I'll be sticking to EU4. If I wanted to micro everything I'd play Vicky 3. I play EU4 to chill and paint the map.

Yeah,micromanaging nightmare.

It being too micro intensive is definitely a big concern for me. I’m not sure how i feel about all this pop management being automatable because i’m pretty skeptical about how well the ai is gonna be able to handle this stuff. Like i remember in stellaris when you could theoretically let the ai handle your sectors for you but then it just wouldn’t build anything no matter how much resources you gave it. I haven’t played stellaris in a while though so maybe that’s better now?

The main thing to ask Johan is: will there be proper tutorial. Shit looks complicated af

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think trading goods and trade were managed at this high level of detail by the state/court in the medieval period.

Im excited for this game its shaping up to be everything i wanted eu4 to be and everything i tried to pretend it was

It's worse than having Simple systems with complicated UI's, having Complex systems with simple UI's what makes gameplay entertaining. VIC 2 was a great example of systems most people didin't understand, but the UI was almost black and white in what goals you achieve,

It took me a while to get why you dislike pops, but then it clicked while I was playing Imperator. Pops are like babies that constantly cry.

If the extent to mid-game micromanaging comes down to ensuring that your primary market has wine and beer, then I'm ok with managing that part, as long as the AI makes sure all my locations gets distribution from said primary market.

It took me way too long to learn how to play EU4 (and somehow even longer for HoI4, especially learning how to build units AND weaponry and how to move all of that on specific battlefields), I really really hope it won't be a pain to learn how to play EU5.

I hope there is a way to see the goods needs of your burghers at the national level, so you know to import wine, wheat, silk, etc. for your whole nation with the goods automatically being dispersed to the locations where they are needed. I really hope you don’t have to look at every individual location’s burgher needs lol

i personnaly hope that as i experienced in eu4 i will learn new things and discovers mechanics even after 3000 hrs of playtime and this is the road they took so i'm very happy to see eu5 trying to stick to eu4 with even more complexity

The reason they're still calling it Project Caesar because I don't think the game itself is actually going to be called "Europa Universalis". PDX is probably going to try to rebrand the game as something else since the current political climate tends to see that kind of name as "Eurocentric" despite it being very apt for that period in history. I do hope I'm wrong though, and it is just speculation.

i love it i hope they keep it

It will. It's a Lidl version of Meiou, where, for simplicity sake, production was bundled in super categories. Doing such micro-intensive management is just annoying and will break the game. Exactly like in Vic3, they remove the actual interesting part of the game for a very basic excel simulator.

I think the complexity of satisfaction will work if it's something that can be ignored if you're a larger state. Like you said, if you're a large empire you won't be concerning yourself with the needs of peasants in a rural town, that's just the downsides of a large state. Whilst the situation in your country would be improved if you see to the peasants needs, it is to minor for a large empire to care about that one case until it becomes impactful. Think of marginal electorates in elections.

This is my thought about eu5, is it gonna be too complicated, and is it gonna be too resource intensive for my PC, i only got into eu4 about a year ago and have just got accompanied with starting saves without guides and i cant be arsed to re learn a new game like EU and have a budget PC that runs eu4 good but can be quite slow to the mid/end game

if devs change Anatolia cultures pure due to Turkish ignorance and nationalism it would be insane

I forgot where are you from Red?

there's an old meme video on the Russian internet where using google maps some guy is trying to prove that there're only 6 million people on the whole planet

I want euro be focused on diplomacy & war (maybe espionage too), not managing the needs of a population, of which there are ton of other games I can do that in & they do it better.

As someone who has tried to get their friends in to eu4 multiple times: eu4 is already too much micro for some, I think we just got used to it lol. What i think eu5 will do, and i really hope so, is that they will make the micro clearer. A lot of the micro things you need to do in eu4 are really unclear and unintuitive. Paradox's latest releases have been easier simply becausr the micro is a lot more straight forward. Look at vicky, one hella complicated game on the surface with so mich micro, but all of it is so simple to get started with that it feels easy

Oh man, this pops system is probably gonna cause a lot of lag like in stellaris

Honestly, pops are a great idea. I don't care about micro. I remember that, when playing victoria, I dreaded to fight wars, simply because it would take away from my precious pops and my 5m pop utopia would collapse. Perhaps it's the OCD, but fighting any battle made me anxious, because I knew those 1000 men would be replaced with farmers, which means LESS MONEY. There was an actual incentive to be careful and diplomatic, and not just conquer the world. You don't have that in eu4. You just wait for manpower to go up and that's that.

What do you want red hawk another EU4 with better graphics or an EU5!!??

I am in for it if it makes blobbing and world conquest as hard as possible.

actually i hope the make it fairly hard to make a world conquest

For me this is great news. I do not want Europe Universalis Total War. I want Europa Universalis Viktoria.

I really hope the game will be complex and much more than boring map painting and world conquest.

Did people during this period have such big control over their nations? I imagined most countries in Europe back then to be literally just the capital and some garrisons across the border to collect taxes and stuff.

I just hope the devs doesn't have threadrippers for cpus, but ryzen 5s or something

A game specifically catered to my autism. I'll love this.

I think EU5 is gonna be a decent amount different than Eu4 in that it may be more realistic than what its like there. I mean lets be real, after years of changes/updates to EU4 its changed so much. To the point where people cant even watch strategy videos that are older than... a year? lol. I don't think WC/One Faith/One Culture is gonna be much of an option in EU5 and frankly... probably rightly so. As much as i enjoy making everyone Greek as Byz... lets be honest, how realistic is that? How long would it really take for Rome to be like... You know what? Orthodoxy isn't so bad, or Sunni or whatnot. Maybe islam as thru trade they really showed off the perks to them trading Sunni to Sunni or whatnot. Lets be honest though, how long has it been since Europa Universalis was a simple game? I'll admit, i never played the first 2 but I remember trying to get people to play EU3/Eu4. The learning curve is real. Do I want it to be as micromanaging as Vicy3 or CK3? No. And by all accounts they've said it wont be. But an update from EU4 is warranted and lets be real, theres a lot of systems in EU4 that just don't work well. Trade for instance, colonies, and Tech now. I swear I go to the age of Absolutism now and when I check out tech mode its basically all green with the exception of like... inner Africa. Colonies should not have 75% of America by 1600. If you are a giant empire trade should not still flow into Genoa/Venice/England and there be like... well there was nothing we could do...

Complicated or not complicated as it might be... I just fear that you'll need two NASA supercomputers working in tandem to run 15.000 countries dividing 200.000 provinces having 1.000.000 different pops. I mean... for all those amazing games they create, their track record optimizing their software might be a bit... spotty I heard from a good friend.

Yeah, I don't know about all of this. It's like they're combining Victoria, and EU4.... I have 7k hours in EU4, and EU5 hasn't given me good feelings. I might just stay on 4.

I think the complexity doesn't really fit the eu formula. If the pop needs can be managed on a macro scale I suppose it will be fine, with the single province scope being only necessary sporadically to fix some local problem in some location. If we need to fix constant problems in many locations, this is a deal breaker. But hey let's let em cook, and decide whether it's worth our money when they deliver.

1:12 vicky 2?

Based on Victoria 3 and ck3, eu5 is going to be like playing risk

I want it to be as realistic as possible

needs more micro. i want to see hoi4 and victoria 3 and ck3 level mechanics all in one game

Imperator Rome has autotrade so they will prolly have that

I don't think it will be too complicated. I think the skill difference between a casual player and somebody who doesn't have a live besides the game will just be enormous compared to EU4.

If England gets a chance to form Angevin Empire and it can unify the English and Francine cultures into one. That's going to be insane. Harkonnens x5

I didn’t like the trading in Imperator Rome.. this looks like that on steroids. Agree it should be automated. Europa Universalis is about the big picture

Yes yes and yes.

My computer weeps

Bruh am I the only one who wants it to be complicated lmao

as long as it is not to punishing I'm fine with complicated. EU4 is like really punishing when you as the ottomans can't afford say more than double the amount of troops as Bohemia and your armies get stomped, despite your country being about 10 times the size of Bohemia when you start the war.

I simply won’t play it because I’ll have to wait a decade for it to be good and my laptop can’t run the 3d model paradox is pushing

better title idea: was eu4 too streamlined

sounds like razing everything is gonna be a less lucrative strategy in eu5 but probably not enough stop playing horde

Answer: Yes!

It isn’t Byzantium. It’s Byzantium as much as you are Vladimir.

Achievement unlocked: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche. Keep the peasants well fed for 100 years.

No game can & will be better than EU4

I fI wanted to play vicky i'd play vicky. This looks like a massive pain in the ass. and once again "It can be automated" Is not comforting the PDX AI is not smart and we all know it.

Looking a lot like Vic2

Eu5 being too complicated is a real concern. Eu4 is already too complicated for the average person just stepping into their first paradox game.

It is going to be to complicated for me at least. Sadly, I think EUV will not be nearly as enjoyable as EUIV.

Is EU5 Going To Be TOO COMPLICATED? YES. Oh, it's not EUV even if that's what PDX ends up naming it.

There's no such thing as too much micro

i hope not

No such thing as "too complicated"

Over engineered micromanaging nightmare with 1000% stackable modifiers, sticking to EU4 1.30.6 before curry favours mechanic and the insane mission trees drained everything resembling a challenge out of the game.

WHY NOT FULLSCREEN IF I MAY ASK

I was thinking the same thing, i hope they take a step back and see how playable eu5 is going to be. Looks like WC looks difficult and one faith looks impossible. How many people are actually going to move across and buy this. Imperator/ vic 3 have loads of issues, and this looks to be similar.

This looks horrible

Since this pop system has infiltrated Paradox Games, it has gone downhill. I stick to EUIV, have no interest in EUV.

What Literacy in 1300?!? No one exept the clergy was literate and some Nobels.

Oh no! Having to think scares people!? Who would have thought...no wonder good games aren't being made anymore...

Don't cater to normies. If someone wants to play a complex game they can spend 5min reading instructions more complicated than "point and click", this catering to the LCD is what has ruined gaming.

2 minutes and 38 views, fellouf

ugh, this is not good. I want to play FRANCE, not Paris. I don't care about a single region. If there is no Beer, someone should brew some, right ? And if you can make money with someone will do it. This game is drowning in micro management. This sound like Communism, where the state has to provide all needs for the people to make them happy. I do not care about my burghers as long they pay taxes. And i will not provide them with Beer, really not. If they like wine too much i'll tax it. Well i'll tax the living sh** out of them. Wars are expensive, right ? But i'd not call this Eu5 system complicated. Its just drowning in tasks that are no fun. Imagine a country with a couple hundred regions. How long will it take to optimize even half of them ? The lack of micro management is exactly why i love Eu4. You have a few ways to tweak it with development, and i had wished for buildings just do increase these development. That'd have been a natural way. But overall the regions just do their thing and you can steer it to a degree. Enough micro i'd say.

Yes it will, this is not eu5, it is more like Europa crusade Victoria 5