Is genetic drift real? 

I've had the same plant for 14 years. Clone of a clone about 100 times. Still works.

At the end a DNA sequence there a portion at the end called telomerase which gets shorter with every cell division. This has a limited length and it protects the important genetic information because every transcription cuts a little bit off the end. Once this sacrificial data runs out with age, cell divisions start cutting into dna squence and eventually damages key portions for the proper folding of proteins or just completely stop transcription. When this process also runs out there is nothing to prevent random section of dna from linking together causing mutations and cell death. When this process does not work correctly it can lead to near limitless cell division which is more commonly know as cancer. Additionally exposure environmental factors ex. solar radiation, chemical can cause breaks in the dna chain and possible deletions or mismatches of pairs in the repair process. If the life form does not detect this and successfully marks the cell for destruction this also can lead to cancers and malformed proteins. Another example of this process is in transplant rejection where a body detects the transplant as foreign genetic material and marks it for destruction. In the last decade the understanding on genetics has increased greatly but their is still larger portions we have no understanding of how they function.

I keep about 10-12 varieties in my garden and unless a plant is going to flower, it never leaves the solo cup. I always have cuts in the clone dome and once rooted the solo cups get cut into new clones and the cups are tossed. This also helps IPM as there is never old media sitting in pots for gnat or thrip breeding.

Have a chem 91 that I’ve been cloning from clone since 97 still rocks my head!

OG AND Chem has been around since the 90s . Still fire AF ! All i can say .

I loved the Train Wreck back in the day And Rogue valley wreck!

At 12 mins Scott's talking about cleaning the genetics which is done with tissue culture. Back crossing is about bring back a characteristic that was lost from one of the grandparents, for example you made a blueberry x gas and started and IBL f1,f2 but over time you lost too many of the blueberry terps and so breed back that terp with one of its grandparents and try and stabilize that trait that you lost.

30 years. It stunk like cheeze when I strain hunted it, still stinks

I'm on the 4 generation reveg of a keeper pheno for me and guys is just 3 years I believe I'm beginning to see genetic drift. Now I'm gonna try to get my medium correct as I do know where I need to make some improvements on the next run of clone of this said plant but I'm just sharing guys honestly. I love learning all the things I've been learning over the years. I've even been making seeds and just studying and enjoying the process. Love finding a plant that fits my pallette and wows me and also things I may be unfamiliar with. Just love it all

I still thought yalls show wasn't on RU-vid anymore and was so stoked to see yall back. 😅 was listening without looking at first and thought you also had guru back, Rambo sounded similar to him but he's filling in nicely😂 glad to have yall in my daily routine again

I just grew a 43rd generation of clone of clone. My friends' kept it alive since 2011. I considered it AAA+++ at the time now it's still a good solid AAA but has lost a bit or I may have a bit more tolerance to the strain. Unfortunately he cloned from all parts of the plant not specifically the tops. It's still the best pot in town.

Just gotta say I'm new to the show the last few weeks and I really enjoy it I really enjoy the dynamic between you 3. You got the serious scientist, you got "the dude" and then you got the technical/guy.. its perfect.

This is great...I'm a relatively new home grower and am just getting my 4 mother plants setup in their tent...thanks much guys for sharing your knowledge

My mom had one of those harbor freight plastic greenhouses and I used to hot box the hell out of it till it rained and blew it away😂

amazing that you discuss one of my favorite bands, Nekrogoblikon! Love it! Keep killing it Dude Grows CREW!

Scotty, I have believe I have that cut of G-13 you mentioned, I purchased a clone only in the mid 90's for $250, I still have that cultivar and would be interested in discussing with you.

Speaking of dimners on grow lights, I have a MaxiSun light with a remote control that let's me adjust in 10 percent increments from 10 to 100 percent so I know exactly how it's set.

The Co2 chart in relation to ppfd was great info!

I'm growing G-13 at the moment, beautiful plant but long time in flower 12 weeks and a bit stretchy, I'm at week 6 of bloom and the buds are just starting to join up, it's getting ready to produce big cola's 😊

Weaponized kindness is handing someone a joint.

Yes sir Scotty. A back cross will help re-introduce parental traits that may have been lost in filial generations. It also increases stability and a single back cross takes you close to 50% homozygosity I believe. It’s kind of why breeders are reversing and back crossing more these days. You remove a whole set of alleles when you reverse or back cross. You can get the stability of an F5 with a few reversals or back crosses and be much faster. Look at Ethos. Collin produces more consistent polyhybrids with these techniques. I’m excited to play with either technique

Its a tough one, but I do think stuff happens over time. Ive been growing the same cutting for 20 odd years now, just taking cuts off of cuts off of cuts etc. Altho Its hard to really know/prove it, I do think there has been a bit of a "drift" if you will. Again its really hard to say, but the reasons I say this is I remember back in the day, I used to smoke a joint of this stuff and everyone would tell me how much I smell of skunk/grass, even like an hour later after I smoked it, that dosnt happen anymore. The biggest one tho is the genettics throw up alot of 3 fingered fan leaves nowdays, which they didnt used to do. I cant be mad tho as the plants damn near 20+ years old lol, tho I have heard taking them out into the sun for a bit can help this, so Im toying with this idea in the summer.

My family has been growing the G 13 plant for 30 years we had some drift a couple years back. I think we took clones from the less than robust mom. I took the best plant from my brother did eight cycles of picking the fastest rooting quickest growing plant and we now have a plant that’s back to normal on a sidenote, the best plant and biggest bud produced. One seed in the plant is a little different than the original G 13 mom an old timer up here said that was the plant resettingitself

Back crossing generally is to reinforce specific traits that you want to lock down

Hell yea. I’m from Humboldt. Bought my first bong and scored a bag. The same day in Arcata yrs ago. The Plaza is Iconic.

Used to love watching the planes over 27 in frostproof and Bartow when I lived there in the 80s and 90s scotty!

On genetic drift, and cloning from a mother plant as opposed to cloning sequentially (clone of a clone), I have always figured the process can be taken too far, and the plants can and do suffer. Now for a qualifyer, the care and attention to detail, and reduction of stressors can alleviate Most of the problematic mutations. I personally generate new seed stock by studying the selected parents lineages for points of commonality and breaking the parent strains via cross breeding, the number of new combinations (I make each momma bear hundreds, if not thousands of seeds) is phenomenal. I will never run out of cannabis variants. At last count , I have approximately 35-40 thousand seeds in my collection, and i look forward to trying to get to them all...eventually(?)

awesome topic! thanks 😃

nice ep. id like a deeper dive gave me a few good ideas. using genetic drift to create a new strain sounds neat.

Love this show 👍

The location you take the cutting from will determine branch structure. Tops maintain true structure with minimal spacing between branching. I have seen a drift in the Garlic Breath in about 3 years.

Grambo’s Bryan Singer XMen reference was the shit. I laughed so hard at that. Love the show as always.

The real thing to maybe discuss is the talk about reveg clone after reveg clone after reveg clone is when I've managed to believe I've seen it which is essentially a improper way of cloning but please everyone please share your thoughts. Say i grew a seed, didn't take a clone, reveg it, get a clone, flower it without taking a clone, reveg it, take a clone, flower it without getting a clone, reveg it again get a clone! Let's just assume I've seen this personally through improper practice. The mutations have definitely made itself know I'd say at this point. I've lost vigor and flower size. Gonna try again but makes me wonder even if I self this plant at this point, are its genes already currently modified to its current state enough to where its progeny show the mutational traits vs original?

I had a plant i kept alive for almost 10 years by cloning. It was a Lemonaid Haze before there was one available commercially.

Afternoon DGC

I think we have genetically drifted on the ocean of space

Lmao me n the boys had the same revolution about "the wave" when we were trippin on mushrooms. After all the deep thought we just said 'the wave ' multiple times throughout the night and died laughing every time

Here is a new one i came across, we grow plants by the thousands every year. Took a clone of a plant that appeared normal flowered out normally. The clone is a poly. That means that the mother plant must have had polyploidism, but wasnt expressing it until it was cloned. The clone is vegged out now, and bounces back and forth from all out polyploid, back to branching out of the poly clumping, etc

I've only had one strain experience genetic drift - the early 90's notorious Three Brothers/Red Rock Afghani - however this took almost 6 years to manifest itself (and the guy I got it from had for years before that), in the form of extreme miniaturization: Every component of the plant gets smaller and smaller with each generation of clones, until the stems and roots got so thin the resulting clones were weak, susceptible to drawing pest insects (notably two spot mites) and prone to death wilt from even the slightest over/under watering. Years later I learned that many mosaic viruses can cause no obvious symptoms in active crops while slowly triggering a genetic alteration. (This is actually a thing for any living DNA plant or animal) This occurs so slowly that it can take years or even decades to show up in nonsexual propagation, and/or it may not reveal itself at all. It's also worth noting there are several viruses which tend to be species specific, preferring certain plants and not typically affecting others. The mosaic virus which causes flamed petals in Tulip flowers won't typically jump to cannabis, but it can, and it won't make any notable changes, ie, no mosaic coloration in cannabis, but it will slowly degrade that genome. (where in tulips there is no degradation in health, only flamed petals) Conversely, Tobacco Mosaic Virus will readily infect cannabis, and will absolutely cause flame mosaic, and in most cases it's going to manifest itself very quickly - days or weeks - and often cause miniaturization and/or trigger overly rapid ripening on flowers (obviously at the cost of smaller flowers) - if it doesn't kill the strain outright. It's also been speculated that certain latent viruses might not cause a direct negative impact on a plant's genome, but, they will have a secondary impact by acting as an attracting agents for pests, or might open up the plants for other diseases. Relevant to all this, and backcrossing, right now I'm working a backcross line of 24K Gold (Mom) x Ethos Quatro Kush F3 (Dad) - and then in each generation after - the strongest, stoutest male is used to pollinate clones of the original 24K Gold - and the females smoked to verify the line is going the direction I want. With each generation the genetics from the backcrossed plant increase - ie. 1st Gen 50% 24K/50% Quatro Kush F3, second generation 75% 24K/25% Quatro Kush, third generation 87.5% 24K/12.5% Quatro Kush, etc, etc, until the resulting seeds are less than 1% of the original father and at least 99% of the mother - at which point roughly 99% of the offspring will be 99% like momma. I'm doing this in attempt to breed a stronger, stouter 24K Gold, sadly, my cut of 24K has picked up TMV, and while the strain appears to be very resistant to TMV, I know all too well that the virus will eventually win. I'm on the second generation backcross now and the seed plants nearly ready to harvest. So far 90% of the female testers have been absolute fire, and the ones that didn't impress me were still "pretty good" and all have been pretty consistent with each other - a huge credit to Colin at Ethos for that Quatro Kush F3 as my pollen donor - I wanted strength from dad and the Quatro Kush F3 delivered exactly that. But that's one reason to backcross, trying to retain most characteristics of one strain while breeding in another - in my case trying to preserve the 24K Gold's delightful Tangie heavy taste profile but on stronger plants and non geriatric 1000th gen clone from clone genetics, and a grip of seeds to share.

Best dudegrows podcast Ever Yo!!!

I've had some plants clone back to back for a decade without noticable degradation. However, I've also grown some plants from seed that start breaking down. I had a Dolato that lost all it's smell and flavor over 4 years and I tossed it when it's growth structure changed. I think since cultivars are weaker than others. Perhaps the intense lights or insect spread disease has something to do with it.

Hey boys! VooDoo here man! Guess who is Rocking The Show in Thailand! Last time we spoke, it was Canada. We should speak again, I am Scorching Earth like a Double Dragon!

Ministry? Nekrogoblikon? I like this channel even more now

Please do another Lovin In Her Eyes interview Banner. It was one of your best 👌

Broke my ankle jumping off a roof in Utah. 3rd story, running start. I went to far & hit the garage! I put my ski boot on & didnt take it off for a month probably!😂 Went everywhere with my ski boot on & worked Gad 2 chairlift without missing a beat. It was great to be young 😂. They did remove 8 litttle pieces of bone❤much love

i did clones of clones from 'black jack' .....when i got to the 6th time of cloning the genetics split and grew out to show the original genetics - some plants became 'black domina' and some became 'jack herer' .. both still really good flowers

Never made any seed seeds yet with this keeper so it's unfortunate timing just hasn't been on its side for this plant. IT was my first keeper I got bored of her and like said used improper practice now she's not the same. I can only hope I'm doing something wrong to where she's become the way she is. So I made sure I took clones from the spots that have the proper node spacing and things of sort I could think to be selective but maybe things may actually be different just gonna have to see what the clones do because the actual reveg flower plant if you will aka Gen 3 flower reveg is not what I remember yet. Gas Chem terp is still there. Straight up bagseed as well. Never smell chemically smell like this b4 especially after cure. I originally thought I was doing something wrong or that maybe she wasn't all that but she's still special to me I've learned now

michigan has bud delivery too

Ministry kicks ass!! Great workout music! Theives, just one fix, nwo, psalm 69...... stigmata

I grew BC Roadkill about I0 years. I never believed in genetic drift up to that point ,but I noticed a definite deleterious trend .A drop in smell, color,and vigor.I lost that weakened old girl to broad mites.I never saw them coming.

I love Oakland. Not all of it. But a lot of it.

Most nurseries propogate indefinitely from cuttings

Was going to see if Banner might be able to get Professor P from Dynasty/ Relic seeds . Been growing some real fire since meeting him. Thank yall! Have a blast at Billy Strings. My guy!

Flash back to Morgan Freeman as the voice of Biowave in Disjointed. LOL Much love guys! T

check out a Black Sabbath cover band called Brown Sabbath, killer, with horns

Birds chirp early in the morning before the sun rises because the frequency of the chirps help open the stomata of the plant to help wake it up and start photosynthesis.

Yeah man....need that rash guard and sombrerro in the grow for sure!! Cuz....you never know!!! Better safe than sorre-ey!! 🤘

Love some BMFS! Got pit tickets for all 8 nights winter tour. Asheville > Nashville > Atlanta. 🐐🐐🐐

I easily remember they my lights are dimmable…..I just always forget to turn them back up🤦🏻‍♂️lol

100% fact... a buddy had a cut of a ronchy skunk that is the closest ive seen to RKS smell wise but dif structure that he propetually grew with a weekly harvest for 8 years and absolutely ruined the cut of this pheno. Id give alot to get it again and T/C it. Still top 3 finest herb ever for me.

I have just revegged the flowered plants over n over n it just keeps getting more potent.

this does make sense though as the plant grows the new growth ( closest to top) would have more time to have mutations especially after generations where the lower growth would be more similar to the rooted clone

R them exhale bags worth it?

As kids we used to jump off the roof in Tahoe all the time. Deep snow falls. Just have biddies to dig you out. Hey Emerald cup right by me. We have room for a single or a couple.

IMO its not so much the "talking" to the plants that help, its being in the room with them touching/moving them with the added c02 of a human i the room that gives us better results imo.

I think Josh nailed it on the head. More time on earth means more chances for cos.ic rays to hit the plants DNA and cause mutations. Therfore a clone of a clone of a clone has a higher chance of genetic drift. Pretty open and shut case imo.

Genetic drift, cosmic rays, UV lights, pheno expressions. If you keep cloning a plant and growing in a specific environment does it bake in the pheno expression?

If you clone Clydesdales you wont just slowly get donkeys

BX , this is done to secure a particular trait to the lineage, to make potency or flavour or size follow the strain you BX too.

back in the day I was doing clone from clone every cycle, thought I had genetics drift but now think it was compounded nutrient deficiency compounded by never killing the plant and so it lived two and a half years and not perfect conditions.... having seeds makes for a good night's sleep

Dude you can leave the lights on the celling dim them and elevate the plants That way lights are still out of the way and you get the plants up out of the coldest air Like in them under ground green houses they they make a deeper hole for a cold sink

ha nice billy strings is my favorite

I've been taking clones off the same plant since 2004 , no difference in quality, always the same result

I've heard that cultivators breed plants back in with themselves to stabilize the genetics and to produce consistency among the offspring.

Promote that graph in every show pls, especially in regions where the electricity is expensive its key. And for everyone else, too. We need more co2 on earth I say, and its only my opinion. peace

How do u keep a strain around? Clones right?

Its crazy not to think you just watering that plant down every time you clone that thing

I want to know if going into the grow room at night will disrupt my sleep

Dude, planet Earth is a disposable greenhouse Yo!

I didn't know that about pink grapefruit I find them to be a lot sweeter than regular grapefruit.

Scott eyes were glazzzed

Genetic drift isn't what many growers think it is. Genetic drift is 100% a thing in biology; it's one of 2 main mechanism of evolution (the other one being natural selection). Genetic drift is when a neutral mutations takes over (or get bred out of) the population (by chance). So it only refers to mutations that neither help or hurt the organism reproduce. On the other hand, natural selection is only about mutations that do help or hurt the organism, aka have an effect on its fitness. How those mutations spread or get bred out because they do help or hurt the fitness.. so not by chance. I'm pretty sure genetic drift has nothing to do with old clones, which yeah maybe they can get weaker over time because of telomere erosion, virus or epigenetics or something like that... but genetic drift refers to an entirely different phenomenon.

the real true original Rene cut only strain, i cant tell u how long it had been in rotation prior but had held onto that same cut since early 2000 -02 full production outdoors from the ottawa valley renfrew county south of the number 7 hwy northumberland an beyond genetically its still rene. still testing 20 22 % AFTER ran threw trimmers

If had this bb muffin clone for 2 years idk how old it was when i got it but it is fire the bark is like tree bark lol 😆

I got a tangie clone i have had for 4 years now. I just clone from clone from clone it's the same plant I can tell a tangie plant in veg I can smell it. Has not changed

obi won kenobi....lmao. looking like you just finished jedi training for the clone wars man... good shit tho guys..

Oh yeah, you love beans that much dude? How about a mulleted Bean eating contest

I have noticed lost vigour and they get a little finicky over time.

Just give Jerin a call. I’m sure there is a scientific explanation or theory about all of this

I only go out to eat and drink at one spot where I can walk my dogs to, friendly with the staff and know the smokers I love to tip gram cones wrapped in the tip!

I'm from Boston and yea it's Markie Mark and Grambo his abs really LMAO

Isn’t the benefit of us talking to our plants CO2?

How long do you guys use Co2 for? Up until the last day?

Yes speaking to the plants does stuff. Vibrations & out breath are good for them. Here's something on it, in Canada I believe in the Ontario province word is a cannabis company or some one played The Tragically Hip music in the grow. Results are said it was unsuccessful. Seems they like classical & reggae best 🤷 also that "new grass smell" I heard its suppos st to be the grass screaming out in pain at us 🤷 ✌

Deleterious?! How many times can Scotty say it in one conversation?!

So, if Scott is in charge, that means there can be no. B.O.B.

3 generation starts to get weak.4th generation is a no go

yoooooo shout out to my boys in Nekrogoblicon! check out their records if you like weird metal Also i recently stumbled across GOAT myself weirdly. If you like that kinda stuff check out the band SLIFT It smells like a DGC record club in here

DUDE I SAW NEKROGOBLIKON LIVE LAST YEAR AND THEY WERE AMAZING!

Billy MF Strings 🤘🏻