A bit of clarification: Pela cannot fully utilize JQ Signature LC since she is not a DOT character. So Pela with JQ Sig would be only 40% Def Shred and 10% Vulnerability resulting in a 1.4 Multiplier.
@@DeejustD it did say in the video if you're only gonna have to choose one between vulnerability (JQ) vs def shred (pela) then go for vulnerability. so for e2 acheron it's jiaoqiu
Tbh i think that Jiaoqiu vs Pela is a question not that much about dmg% diff, rather stack generation and QoL things like permanent vulnerability field that you don't need to recast every wave/every boss phase/every new enemy summoned/etc., it just stays here forever. It's smooth as hell, and cannot be really appreciated before you actually play him. Banger vid btw, keep up the good work!
Jiaoqiu is overall better than Pela in Acheron teams in every aspect. Most people will run them together which will drastically improve team performance.
Very well put, that's the part that everybody is missing. Jiaoqiu team makes Acheron soooo much smoother to play. To the point im sure that after getting used to him going back to just pela/sw would just feel so much worse.
@@somebody-gj6ue depends, if your black swan is e1 or not. Whether pela has the eidolon for the ice res debuff. That said, Jiaoqiu would be able to make playing acheron feel 'complete' Sure, you can manage with other debuffers and they would work enough for you to clear endgame content. Its all about your needs.
Im calling it. This video is already going to be swamped with all the people inventing reasons to skip him because they made up their minds from all the doomposting.
the thing is: pela doesn't have 100% uptime with her debuff but jiaoqiu has, if you have e2 acheron it's gonna be hard for you to choose, but if you're like us who has e0s1 acheron, pela with jiaoqiu is so op
I mean Pela gets a 2 turn ult, while being 100% sp positive so unless u just ulted an already dead wave (insert skill issue moment I guess), she doesn't have any debuff uptime issue
@@jaloy9325You can't get a stack thru reapply def shred via pearls with basic atk if you alr have it on enemy via ult, meaning you have to use skill with e4 to get a stack and SP might be tight depending on the team comp (and SW can be very SP hungry after all). Either way, she does not stack as much as JQ still
@@Wawawawawa750 im gonna use Gallagher on acheron team. With 161 speed Multiplication and vonwaq, he can add 9-10 skill point within the first 3 cycle.
@@Wawawawawa750 exactly even if the pearl lc is at s5 it still doesn't reapply the def shred making you use her skill so she's really not as sp positive as ppl claim.
best guide when you start actually showing the real numbers, not like most creators that just show damage numbers while playing without the math behind it
@@runex4438 his E1 gives your team 40% Dmg Bonus increase (not to be confused by Vul) and some QoL for his stacking. Now id it worth?? Honestly idk i need to think about it more
Thank you for explaining how all these calculations work. I'm not the best with all these mechanics but you make it so everyone can understand it. Please keep making these explanatory videos, they really set you apart from the other content creators. Thanks! :)
This was SUPER helpful! Thanks so much for doing this comparison and cutting through the doomposting. Really appreciate you on all your vids just putting the numbers in front of people and showing realistic damage and synergy options! One thing I'd love to see is a comparison between E1 JQ and E1 sparkle for Acheron (including both for E2). As Sparkle is on the same banner and both their E1s are similar in terms of the benefits they give, a video highlighting them both just like this one would be super helpful
i love how people slept on pela until something comes to potentialy replace her and only then, all of a sudden everyone out here being day one pela fans
not really. most people who can comprehend texts understood since the very beginning how op pela is. i also used pela more than silver wolf. i've always thought solver wolf is very mid as a limited 5* since pela exists.
@@lalshalu2937 youtubers and Nerds Like me understood it. If you Look at usage rates you will See that she has like 30% usage rate. She was used only 7% more than bailou, a c Tier Charakter. Heck Jingyuan and Silver Wolf is used more than her (im looking at 2.0 moc usage rate). If she was used as much in Relation to her strength she would be used more. 2.0 was even the time where they cranked up the Defence on enemies, if in not mistaken
@@kingranger9515 Look at usage rates brother. Pela is not even used half as much as she should compared to her strength and flexibility. Especially cause she was Never considered Best in Slot in any Team Comp until acheron came
Thank you this is the video I needed to strengthen my resolve and finally decide to pull for Jiaoqiu. People always just saying that DEF Shred will always be the best, but never can really show the exact calculation. Meanwhile I can't be arsed to do the math myself thus I searched about def shred vs vulnerability and found your video. Thanks again.
9:09 for this type of graph I would recommend a log scale, which works better for distinct multipliers like shown here. I feel like it would make visualizing the difference between vulnerability and def shred easier.
@@fullvoid6663 it's not. Especially with Acheron hitting 2-5 enemies. Also trend is rng aggro, burn ehr rng, resisted by ice and fire enemies, cant proc twice
@@Piccolololmao And yet I get multiple stacks per turn using Trend LC quite reliably. Have you actually used it? It is a lot better than you'd think due to multiple attacks and AoE. Also, Acheron's AoE doesn't really matter. In most scenarios your clearing time depends on how fast you kill that one beefy boss in the middle (trash mobs just die anyway) and that's why SW can actually clear faster than Pela and I dare say, JQ as well.
This helped me understand a lot more of the math and I appreciate that. I knew that certain combos FELT stronger & resulted in better performance in-game (which is where most of my experience comes from), but now I know WHY. Great stuff, Summon!
i feel like im back to math class learning to read graphs... jokes aside, this video will help me a lot when ppl ask me the difference between pela and jiaoqiu debuffs, tysm!
I was planning on pulling for JQ, but after doing some relic pruning and leveling, my acheron teams can handle most high end content except getting full stars on the last floor of boss rush mode. I kinda want to wait for the characters after the feixao,lingsha patch to make a decision, unless he can half the time required to gain max stacks, i dont see him being that useful Since for my account, my current teams can handle 95% of all the content in the game, its a shame since he has great animations and love how his character acts in the story quest, but i would rather start building new team archetypes, than just slightly upgrading one team type.
i feel like the additional no of turns that Acheron would be able to take due to sparkle and JQ is gonna out damage the JQ and Pela cause it opens you up to wearing atk boots and having more ults
Thanks for the clarification. I've seen a lot of bad takes about Jiaoqiu these past few weeks, so it's really nice to have someone setting the records straight. Have a good day.
Excellent video as always! I love seeing clarifications on how the vuln/def shred calcs work as it's not something overly obvious in the game. Your explanations are great as usual. Btw I don't think anyone was really doomposting that Jiaoqiu wouldn't be an improvement for Acheron but rather most of us are disappointed that he seems to be an improvement ONLY for Acheron. I really don't know what hoyo was cooking with his kit but they burnt it. We wanted a more "universal" nihility support rather than someone that's inferior for everyone but Acheron teams.
Well if people consider Pela to be a universal debuffer then JQ is jjst an upgrade to whatever Pela could do. The only exception is Ice teams. But for everytbing else JQ is better in every aspect
@@iSUMMONYT Oh, agreed, 100%. It's just a shame that he's a small and niche improvement over her and realistically, I don't see using him in anything but my Acheron team.
@@kaileena7his damage in dot teams is around the same as ruan mei. Also hes been outperforming topaz in ratio teams with much lower investment. People are just focused on his debuff application and that hes best for acheron.
Yesterday i learned hanya burden doesn't increase super break dmg . It only increase skill, ult , basic raw dmg . But oh well she works well for sp and consistent speed on firefly.
that's bcs it's the same multiplier bracket as RM and Robin's skill buffs or elemental orbs, which also don't increase break dmg. It's very misleading bcs it's not a debuff, it's a buff thats looks like a debuff
It also doesn't count as a debuff which is the really dumb part, otherwise she would have been a perfect 4* for e2 Acheron since Tingyun is useless for her.
This is EXACTLY what the community needed. Someone to do that math and objectively tell us the numbers so we don't just doompost all the time. Thank you for your hard work!
I like how being BETTER THAN GODDAMNED PELA is a bad thing now even though not even SW comes close to her in Uptime, Consistency, AoE, or literally everything else except Single Target. For reference, this is like dropping a Tingyun that regenerates energy way faster than Tingyun, while also buffing your team more than Tingyun.
They moved the goalpost to he is not more powerful than Ruan Mei or Robin. Hes by far the best for Acheron teams which is good in every game mode, matches Ruan mei and Robin in DOT teams again good in every game mode and is better than Topaz in followup teams which is also good in every gamemode. I don't know what else they want other than massive powercreep. He is the Premium Pela which is still being used in a lot of teams even now as an alternative when you don't have the best in slot supports or in 0 cycle sustainless clears.
As someone running the Acheron E0S1, SW s0 and pela s5 combo, im sitting at 2.15 damage. Seeing that even S0 JQ and pela s5 hits for 2.14 makes me VERY tempted to pull for JQ E0S0 sinply for the stack generation. How much more frequently would ults be going off?
Consider Fire MC with trend LC. Stack generation is comparable as they also can generate debuff on enemy turns and your team has an abundance of skill points.
The graph on using both def shred & vulnerability shred is extremely misleading. Why would you compare for eg. 20% def shred + 20% vulnerability (0.34 based on graph), with JUST 20% def shred, or JUST 20% vulnerability shred. Obviously the total of 40% shred in total will result in higher damage than 20% shred. If you multiply each of the % amount by 2 of the dmg together line, it will be inbetween the def shred line & vulnerability line.
The point of thst was to show that stacking a bit of both together yields in a higher multiplier than stacking one to the same amount. The graph couldnt be clearer imo
@@iSUMMONYTI don't think you get what I'm saying. The graph is comparing a combined total of 20% def shred TOGETHER with 20% vulnerability, with ONLY 20% def shred or ONLY 20% vulnerability. Obviously the total of 40% will result in more damage compared to 20%. In fact, it doesn't seem like combining them will result in more damage at all, but is simply the midpoint of def shred & vulnerability as shown by the damage increase: 20% def + 20% vulnerability: 0.34 dmg 40% def: 0.27 dmg 40% vulnerability: 0.4 dmg 50% def + 50% vulnerability: 1.04 dmg 100% def: 1.15 dmg 100% vulnerability: 1.0 dmg TLDR: At low total shred: Vulnerability > Mixed > Def shred At high total shred: Def shred > Mixed > Vulnerability
I will be pacient and wait for 2.5 Live stream,if acheron re runs i will skip jiaogiu because i need one more for e2,if she dosent re run i might go for him
E2S1 Acheron here. I'm still pulling for e0s1 Jiaoqiu despite me having Pela. The stack generation, permanent vulnerability field, and vulnerability debuff is really good for qol purposes. Plus I have s1 Aventurine so that adds up to 84% vulnerability. Plus it makes her really good in pf or against bosses that summon mobs like the upcoming 2.5 boss.
I’m very sad to say that I accidentally pulled on huohuo banner (I was looking at my pulls and tried to pause a video and hit it accidentally😅) and lost the 50/50(thank god) so I plan to grind everything I can that’s left in this patch + achievements, lets hope I can get him 🤞 great vid btw❤
Great video. Thanks for explaining I expected Jiaoqiu to be better but not by this much. The dilemma I am facing is choosing between S1 Jiaoqiu or saving and getting E2 Acheron and run her with Pela and hyperspeed Bronya. Since both teams have pretty much same value in term of pulls.
I have a question no video I ever saw had a answer. Which TEAM has more damage? E0S1 Acheron, E0S0 BS sampo light cone and E0S0 Jiaoqiu resolution vs E0S1 Acheron, E6 pela resolution and E0S0 Jiaoqiu sampo light cone(or any other that's better except limited).
hi this was really helpful c: can I ask, in your comparison chart at 10:08, do you have calculations with Eyes of Prey instead of Pearls on Jiaoqiu? I just find it really hard to build more than 120 ehr if using Pearls
Im gonna wait for the 2.5 banner announcement before i make any final decisions because feixiao and moze being follow up characters means that Hoyo has a high incentive to add robin in the banner seeing as outside of superbreak, lingsha is also a follow up character and Robin is someone i would ideally have to maximize my pure fiction score since i have jade herta
I enjoyed the explanation and deep dive into the numbers. But does this video actually take into account ALL the buffs from JQ for Acheron or just the Def Shred/Vulnerability? I mean even if the generation of stacks for Acheron is faster by 15% with in the team, then this is basically a maybe 14% increase in damage for that team. If he does some damage himself, that would also add to that etc. Would be very nice to see a video once he releases that can just give a number for all the things he does; as some of us will have to decide on getting the LC oder E1 for Acheron versus Jiaoqiu.
Get Jiaoqiu than Acheron signature lightcone. Jiaoqiu signature lightcone is only a dmg increase whereas Acheron signature lightcone doubles her stack generation on her turn and increases her dmg.
@@kennethyoung7457 thank you, I found different numbers about his stack generation, if it really is doubled through him (thus about 90% damage increase), then he would be clearly better yea. Is it really that? Or does he only generate double the points a hyperspeed/windarmor pela would? LC is about 40% damage +25% stack increase in my case, as I'm running trash LC.
@@Mijoulin I was mostly talking Acheron signature lightcone doubling her crimson knot stack generation. Jiaoqiu also generate twice the number of stacks as any other Nihility support for Acheron though even more if there are a lot of enemies.
If I was running an E0S1 Acheron with Sparkle, Pela + Sustain until now and I got lucky with jiaoqiu, would I rather replace sparkle and go jiaoqiu+pela/sw depending on aoe or single target or just replace pela and run sparkle+jiaoqiu?
im planning on pulling for bs on her rerun to complete my dot team and i can also use her as the 2nd nihility alongside pela on my acheron team, would you still recommend to pull for jq to put him as the 2nd nihility instead of bs
Hello Ty for all the calcs!! Just curious, for a E2S1 Acheron team of E1S1 Sparkle, E6S5 pearls pela and E2S1 Aventurine, would replacing pela with E0S1 Jiaoqiu be better? (Also am willing to invest in E2S1 Jiaoqiu if that makes a huge diff). I am hyper invested into Acheron. Thank you!
what difference in multiplier would jiaoqiu E0S1 do by replacing robin E0S1? I know it's worth it cuz he gives more stacks for ultimate, but does he give a bigger multiplier then her?
Great video! I have E2S1 Acheron and plan on pulling Jiaoqiu. Do you think Sparkle should still keep that third spot? or should I use Pela or Silverwolf?
Hey Isummon! I hope you see this but I have 2 questions. For the JQ + Pela calculations - You were calculating the buff acheron gets with 2 nihility characters correct? ( I believe they are both Nihility) What would the calculation in overall dmg (in terms of 1,2.11 etc) be for a Gal, pela, acheron, Ruan team? As in, is the 2.14 vul you showed in the better the threshold for being better than the team I mentioned? (yes I know it's based on stats relics etc) but some insight on how they compare would be cool.
I have the google sheet in the description. Make a copy and try using it to see the actual dmg number. If you have any questions join the discord and ask me on discrod if you need more help!
Thanks for such a thorough video! I am not good at understanding and doing these calculations without using the character. I am one of the few Jiaoqiu pullers. I like his Ult. A little sad that he doesn’t work with FeiXiao… or does he? Anyway thanks for doing the leg work, this helped a lot!
Heya brother, I'd love to see you make a calcs video of Jiaoqiu for DoT teams instead of Acheron teams. Would love to see if he will be bringing more to the table if he were to replace Ruan Mei or Robin in a Kafka/Black Swan with Huohuo or other sustain comp. Thanks!!!
I'm joking but I do really need sparkle and I'm hearing adventurine might rerun soon and my account mostly needs sustain realistically I only want adventurine, plus I have sw sure she isn't aoe but she still debuffs a lot and might pull lingsha for my be team plus I think she's a combination of huouhuo and luocha mins the energy
@@Not_Kritikal yeah, I'm still only thinking about MoC only when talking about team comps! You're right Blackswan + JQ will be really good for PF Acheron!
Nah it's better to pull for new characters than 10-15% dmg increase, many more interesting characters will come out in the future, same with Lingsha, Gallagher is fine with Firefly tbh.
@@JayDamaso78 yeah I am not poor, I really spend huge amount of money, my major DPS like Acheron, Firefly are all E2S1, and some supports are E1,I also has pretty much all the good characters released till now except Luocha,Argenti and Jade, the main thing about Jiao is his design- NPC type, that's why I said way cooler characters than him will release soon like 5 star Tingyun and Sunday...
I think even the haters agree that he's better than pela/sw, even better for e2 acheron. The real question is: why pull for him. Like me, I have the e2s1 acheron and I'm doing this moc with 1 cycle (acheron side). Is it worth spending 75-150 pulls to reduce just 1 cycle? And look, I don't have Sparkle LC or her eidolons. Imagine someone who has them. If he were a sustain, my God, he would be a must, but just because he is competing for a place, which already has great options, it ends up making it difficult to justify getting him
With the HP bloat on moc enemies thats been going on since forever, sooner or later u'll appreciate his dmg increase and stack regen ngl. Ive been 2 shotting any moc since her release but 2.5 moc having 3.7 mil HP boss will surely tank it this time
My goal is to clear MOC and AS full auto and all stars with E2S1 acheron team without having to spend a single month building her, so I can actually build the characters I like instead. The end game for sure will become harder but I don't want to pull again for new dps just to clear content. Busted acheron team is a solution to me.🥲 (btw I will get jiaoqiu e1)
Thank you for make this thing clearer especially for E0S1 Acheron player. I would like to pull for him since he can be played in Acheron & Dot teams. I just have enough ticket to reach hard pity. If I lose 50/50, it's not the worst because I have Silverwolf, Pela & Black swan built already & Feixiao guaranteed saved.
jiaoqiu is good, its always nice to different multipliers, right? btw, i was thinking about jiaoqius lc for guinaifen. Fire kiss is not vulnerability (i believe), but it could be nice to have enemies receive 30% more dmg from guina and another 24% from jiaoqius lc that is 54% more dmg receive from two different sources. Its kinda insane if you ask me
I have an E3 SW which I don't really want to remove cause of the effect res shred on E2 lowering my team's EHR req. I'm also using Trend LC on my Fu Xuan which is basically still one stack even when paired with Jiaoqiu. Would he still be a good replacement for Pela in this case?
May i ask how the table in the last part of the video changes with the "incessant rain" lc? I have both sw and her sig lc, and im currently playing it with Pela so no "res shines" in the team (Acheron), what can be the best scenario in my team? Should i consider an s0 Jiaqiu with sw sig lc?
JQ with S1 Incessant Rain would be a multiplier of 1.62 and JQ with S5 Res is a multiplier of 1.64 You can use it and its close enough to where its not a huge deal
He’s still better than Pela, but with e2s1 Acheron with 160 sparkle, you’ll never find yourself thinking “wow I need Jiaoqiu”. It’d just be QoL at your point or if you like him so I’ll say no. I am pulling for him myself though.
Im working on a guide for Acheron with Jiaoqiu included so I will more accurate info on that video but yes JQ is lloking to be better than Pela in that team
That last number really seals the deal for me. I currently run Acheron with SW and Pela with S5 Resolution, and seeing as the damage multiplier is essentially the same if I were to replace SW with JQ, I don't think there is a reason for me to pull for him
Dont forget that SW 2.15 is on ST while JQ is for all enemies, and on top of that his other main selling point is stack regen which is huge for someone that does 2 mil per ult
Damn, that's actually pretty impressive. Jiaoqiu seems to be way better than i thought initially. That said I'm still not gonna pull for him because my pela is already built and I'd rather save my jades for feixiao because she seems to be straight up busted. But thanks for the calcs nonetheless, i like learning about the intricacies of damage calculations. Keep up the great content, you just earned a sub
@@joaquinchua3348 you can watch any showcase or comparaison . E0S1 Acheron + JQ+pela clears Faster than our current E2S1 with sparkle pela . BUt E2S1 acheron +JQ +Pela is also a good jump so yeah .
Nice I'm planning to pull for him but I don't know if his good with Acheron with this gives me more confidence that he would be a good addition for my Acheron team.
