IS MARVEL IN SERIOUS TROUBLE? | Double Toasted 

Marvel shouldn’t have made so many shows based around supporting characters. That might have helped since the less shows would give more focus on better quality

Martin hit the nail on the head with the corporate/board of directors stuff. It's not enough to make consistent money, the moneymen demand that you show consistent growth as well, always doing better than the year before. And that's incredibly unsustainable once you hit record profit numbers like Marvel Studios did. That's been happening with so many forms of entertainment lately; feature films, streaming, AAA video game development.

It’s been four years since Endgame and already they’re thinking about bringing back the old status quo. This franchise REALLY IS based on comic books! But in all seriousness, I doubt it’ll be permanent. It’ll mainly be for Secret Wars and that’ll be it. Because a lot of people who want this to be permanent don’t seem to realize that actors have this problem called… AGING. I’m not saying the original six are old, but it’s getting there soon. Because that’s what happens when you have REAL LIFE HUMAN BEINGS be superheroes for a decade, they start to get old, tired and eventually DIE.

Kang’s been killed at least THREE times already. Why would he be considered a threat, why make him a central antagonist, and why overexposure him so early with so little continuity with the story throughline? If Ant Man solos you, you’re not an Avengers level threat

The Black Widow movie should have happened in Phase 2, Phase 3 at the latest before they felt the need to end the character in Endgame. It makes zero sense to wait until the character is gone to release a solo movie.

I think their main problem is they clearly dont let all the directors and writers just do their job anymore everything has too much interference they need to let these movies/TVs show actually be someone Passion project instead of holding them back.

There are lots of reasons why the MCU might be struggling now, but for me personally the main thing is there is just too much of it. We used to get a few Marvel movies a year so even the regular ones felt like events, but now we get movies and streaming shows and even if people say you don't have to watch all of it, if you want to keep tabs on things you kinda do have to watch all of it. And I just have too many other things clamoring for my time in the entertainment line. Maybe I'll care again when the X-Men are finally coming up, but at this point I don't know if even that would bring me back.

I think the secret invasion should have been the story. Just trying to figure who's a Skrull and who's not. Also gives them an opportunity to introduce new characters that the Skrulls might not have been aware of.

You'd think bringing back the OG team would solve things but we've seen that fail too (i.e. Obi-wan, Boba Fett) So, they could totally do it and make it worse or 'lame' by having the same elements they have now and have always had. Also, the OG team didn't always have the best reception (Age of Ultron, Thor 2, iron man 2) Disney's, or more specifically, Marvel's problem is one of the most expensive in entertainment history

Its really sad how Marvel has just been unable to hold the ball at all since Endgame. I thought they had it all figured out but the entire Multiverse saga so far has been a disaster.

"There was an idea to bring together a group of marketable actors so when we need them they could raise the Disney stock to where we never could" Old man Fury

Phase 4 should have been The Fantastic 4 and the build up with Dr.Doom from the start as the next big Threat it's a Shame That James Gunn already Cast Half of The Terrifics while Marvel I struggling with the casting of the Fantastic 4.

Maybe they should try doing more animated projects. I mean say what you will about DC but they know how to create and continue animated specials and series with interesting concepts and ideas. In the past Marvel has made GREAT animated series, even some now with Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur show. I just feel if Marvel wants to be more experimental the should take a look or try to expand more into something that doesn’t have to be linear.

They don't want to say the Obvious, but watching Quatumania, multiverse of madness you can see that they want to pull a bait and switch using the main character to promote a female character while relegating the main male character to be the one supporting and lightly motivating the already perfect female hero. They tried to pull that one with Blade, Mehershala Ali would not play ball.

The creatice decisions they're making currently with the lack of quality for their shows and movies, mishandled treatment towseds the VFX Artists, changing plans at the last minute, bringing back old characters for nostalgia bait, not giving directors and writers or evwn the actors creative freedom to have fun with these projects, it's all becoming a problem. I think Marvel can get better and Kevin Feige can figure something out, but they need to do it fast, cause the news is currently not putting them in a positive light with the fans who grew up and loved these movies. The only things I can see saving Marvel is Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, X-Men, new writers and directors, more creative freedom, the Disney Plus TV series ending soon and going back to doing just movies and special presentations. And also a full reboot.

It would be a complete failure of storytelling if they bring those characters back now. Their arcs were completed. It would only diminish all those films. Where's the X-Men? Fantastic 4? I'm not mad at showcasing other Marvel characters because they're so many great Marvel characters, but have great writing and smart plots to capture the audience.

I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to make a Blade movie. He’s a very fun, very cool character who hunts vampires and has a constant battle with himself for being half of what he hates and hunts. You can’t make an interesting story out of that in nearly 4 years?

The problem for me are the Disney+ shows when everything is said and done. With the phases 1 to 3, the MCU movies have been a fun little distraction every few months. The movies were fun, the writing was coherent and the quality was mostly on the higher end. Now with the shows they kept adding, it felt more like a chore. At the same time, everything became watered down. After Doctor Strange: Multiverse Of Madness it was a wrap for me and i stopped watching. I thought to myself "they really want you to subscribe to Disney+ and sit through Wandavision for multiple hours in order to understand why Scarlet Witch became evil and to keep up with the rest of what's going on in the MCU?". HEEEEELL NO ! I'm not a TV show guy to begin with because i don't really have the time nor the attention span for that ish. I was mega fan of the MCU by the time Endgame's credits rolled but i'm fed up now.

After end game they should’ve started with fantastic four and xmen

I remember telling my friends back then that something that was gonna haunt them in the past is going to catch up and haunt them later. Is killing off every single villain they encounter in every movie. Sure some villains were bad because of writing. But since at this point they don't have recurring fights with enemies like in the comics. The more they just keep killing everyone off. There's no 2nd fight or future fights. After Thanos people keep saying who's the big next bad guy. But if you had villains coming back sometimes to fill in these blank schedules. It could lead for further plots or archs for characters instead of adding new minor villains then killing them off immediately

I feel that Wolverine could be a great Iron Man style first character to focus on in a MCU reboot. He's a very deep character with plenty of room for development and with his long life you could tease a lot of OP immortal characters before setting up the rest of the MCU around him like Tony Stank.

I would of haves phase 4 & 5 be about the fanatic 4, x-men. This would of been perfect to give Hulk a storyline that doesn’t have to leach on the films.

Everyone thought Kang would be the villain of Phase 4-6, when really it’s Disney+

Okay, I do think some of what the article said DOES make sense, other parts I’m taking with a grain of salt. Overall, personally, I think they NEEDED to be humbled. At the same time, I don’t mind that they’ve been mostly experimenting and trying new things. Experimenting doesn’t always guarantee success, but it’s better to do so than to keep playing it safe (thats why i don’t think it’s a good idea to bring back RDJ, Evans, and Johansson in terms of damage control). I don’t think they’re in as much trouble as some may claim and I don’t think it’s over for them per say. Their hold on the zeitgeist is just lessening more, which I think in their case is a GOOD thing. They shouldn’t need to be the only big ticket in town and have to carry the whole industry on their shoulders, because having to constantly reach for the high standard the public has for them by producing more projects than ever before is clearly hurting them. The pandemic and ramping up projects (in particular the ones intended for D+) really put them in a tight spot. Scaling back the amount of in-development projects and actually treating their TV shows like ACTUAL TV shows instead of 6 hour movies is going to be good for them in the long run. There IS a way for them to continue to experiment and let outside filmmakers (primarily ones that have distinct storytelling styles) leave their marks while still having a set path of where they want this multiverse saga to go and end.

It’s not just Marvel, Disney made very bad decisions with Marvel and Lucasfilm which should have been a long term critical success but they found a way to screw up

Once Endgame happened, I knew the MCU would start to decline. Feige should've quickly put out the MCU's F4 and Xmen to fill the void of losing key Avengers.

ever since iron man was killed off, it hasn't been the same, Spiderman is the only dude keeping the fandom alive. and another issue is that marvel is trying to focus on these other characters that nobody knows about. the main fanbase for these marvel movies are casuals, casuals know the main popular characters, iron man, hulk, captain America, etc.. casuals don't know who Shang chi, captain marvel, and she-hulk are unless they read comics. you put too much focus on these characters and people are gonna lose interest. same thing with xmen, once wolverine became less of a focus, people began to lose interest because wolverine was the one character causals knew the most.

All those people saying "Marvel's in shambles" "MCU is dying" are gonna have a field day with this

Hot take: Gaurdians of the Galaxy style writing ruined the MCU

Yes! Next question.

Replacing Jonathan Majors is pretty simple. All they need to do is bring in a different variant that’s a completely different person or just have Doctor Doom show up and replace him like in the comics.

I felt cheated after they brought Colson back, The Avengers came together in the honor of him and avenge his death. When they brought him back, it just cheapened that emotion

I feel like Marvel studios needs a hard reboot and to get rid of Nate Moore because he is the reason they've had most of their movie failures.

Another problem with marvel is that they don't have a clear vision or story for kaang. When you watch phase 1 theough 3 they had a clear visor for each movie and how it would lead up to thanos

Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes because I want a good X-Men series.

They rushed introducing a big bad so soon. We first SAW Thanos 4 years after the MCU start, and he didn't even speak until 6 years in with the first Guardians movie. They should've just stuck to smaller, more contained and personal stories and gradually built up to Kang or whoever. But yeah, shareholders and all 😂

They should have taken a 5-year break after Endgame and come up with a solid plan. They could have set up the XMEN and Fantastic Four. Why didn't they do that?

All will be well once they pull out the big guns, which is the X-men. I also think the F4 will make a huge difference. As much as those 2000s F4 movies are a guilty pleasure of mine, they really haven't gotten a fair shot. I think that if done right, they'll also be a huge step in the right direction for the MCU.

another problem is that their targeting a group that isn't really interested in their movies, but the investors are pushing them to target them and so the audience that had been with them from Iron Man to Endgame have been feeling alienated

Martin said it. You have the X-Men and the entire X-verse right there. People who were soured by Fox will come to the theater in droves.

WandaVision and Loki are the only shows that I can justify. Falcon and Winter Soldier could have been Captain America 4, Hawkeye/She-Hulk/Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight could have just been movies and could have been saved for phase 5.

I know that I am in a minority but I never had a Disney+ subscription. Missed ALL the shows. Same with Star Wars. As far as Marvel is concerned. I'm happy with the new movies so far: Thor: Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, Multiverse of Madness, Quantumania and Gaurdians 3 have all been immensely enjoyable and have carried the Marvel movie brand for me just fine

RDJ will never come back Unless he’s getting 250 for two movies Or he’s retiring entirely. He said during Oppenheimer he was so happy and reminded what it was like to make an actual movie. HES DONE

When it comes to the “rumors” About the OG Avengers coming back for a future movie, I’m not really that surprised. While I admit troubles at Marvel, I don’t think the notion of bringing them back is a result of fear/back-pedalling. Feige and co. announced a long time ago that that endgame is “Secret Wars”. Comics fans know what the recent version of that story entails. When Feige and co. announced that and “Kang Dynasty” were the next Avengers entries, it was clear as day that Of course they’re gonna bring back these characters. Not necessarily the ones that died, but VARIANTS of them. The fact that the multiverse and variants are now concepts they’ve established and run with, it’s really only a matter of time til they bring back versions of dead characters. Hell, they’ve arguably already been doing it with Loki and Gamora. With Secret Wars, the opportunity is to not only bring back versions of past characters within the MCU, but also past versions of Marvel characters outside the MCU. The multiverse has more than set up these possibilities. When it comes to “course correcting”, part of me is happy to see that Feige is taking these criticisms seriously and is looking to make changes, after taking chances with Phase 4. Considering the complaint of the infinity saga was that everything seemed too formulaic, I appreciate them taking risks. They gotta do hella fine tuning to balance doing something different, while adhering to what they’ve found success doing. I think ultimately, Marvel just spread themselves too thin. They produced too many shows and movies, and Feige himself couldn’t oversee all of them the same way he did the first 3 phases. That being said, I’m absolutely okay with the characters they’ve introduced so far. People gotta remember that the ones we considere “the big guns” now, they were simply not that in 2008-2011. It took them all teaming up and getting sequels to really get us invested. The TV shows and some of the lesser movies aren’t necessarily bad per se; they’re honestly on the level of Phases 1 and 2 which were all pretty mediocre if we’re being real, with a few exceptions. But given the heights that we’ve seen in Phase 3, going back to these simple building blocks won’t cut it anymore. People want the big stuff now. Marvel was too ambitious for their own good. They tried to address criticisms and take risks, but that won’t always succeed, and we’re seeing it now unfortunately. Me personally, I still love all this. I’m not as down on it as most. It truly is the comic-book reading experience brought to life, for better or worse. Everything’s too connected, yet a lot of it feels disconnected. Marvel has to take a step back and maybe streamline how much content they put out, and streamline the story they’re trying to tell. As for Jonathan Majors… that’s just unfortunate. I really do like Kang as a villain. I was excited to see him announced as the main baddie, and I’m enjoying seeing his variants through different movies and shows. But this’ll be tough to navigate with Majors’ case moving forward.

Secret invasion. Could have been to phases…so much wasted potential. They could have told some great stories

Maybe, but honestly not moreso than most other franchises at the moment. The variety article uses a bunch of stuff we already knew along with some hearsay to whip people up into a panic about the franchise when really not much of substance has changed.

Honestly at this point Kang should just be treated as a throwaway villain and Doom should come in as the true main antagonist.

The biggest problem with the MCU and also Disney in general is over saturation. Disney is constantly adding Marvel and Star Wars content to Disney + and there’s so much being released now it doesn’t feel special anymore. Also the shows and movies have become so interconnected that audiences must watch everything to know what’s going on in other shows and movies. I shouldn’t have to have a Disney + subscription to follow the plot of Dr. Strange 2 which was released theatrically.

Boy i hate how desperate this feels, i might be wrong but I was wrong about holding out hope for She Hulk.

People take these internet rumors like fact. Deadpool with Wolverine in it will be bigger than any RDJ Iron Man movie by a lot. Secret Wars will be as big or bigger than End Game and than the X-Men will come

How is Michael Keaton in The Flash as Batman just “a cameo”??? George Clooney at the end was a cameo. Michael Keaton was a full on supporting character. You’ve been doing this long enough to know the difference between a cameo and a supporting role. A cameo is when a famous person does an uncredited quick scene in a movie. You’re supposed to know all these film terms.

Seeing Dr.Doom walk out of his office to Mf Doomz ALLCAPS piano roll would send chills throughout the world in the theatres💯💯💯

Gotta reiterate that Black Widow should have came out in Phase 1 or at best phase 2. Black Widow deserved to have been the MCU’s first super heroine film instead of Captain Marvel.

I wish Wesley Snipes could do Blade, but the new actor is good in so many other films. It’s sad they were gonna do the character dirty.

I love Marvel but it's almost too much now and you feel forced to watch it because you might miss something, rather than simply watching because you want to and just enjoying. Plus multiverse stuff and time travel and all that can get confusing anyway especially to a casual fan and this is the entire Saga right now which is confusing some fans and driving them away. They need to after this Saga is over just start over from scratch.

No, the MCU has a lot of success and misses, which isn't anything new within Hollywood. Marvel, or mainly Kevin, has been delaying projects to cook more, axing pointless projects, so they'll be fine.

I like most of the tv shows and movies. The biggest problem is that everyone wants endgame level tv shows and movies from marvel every project.

Alot of missteps. Korey right there should’ve been an X-men teaser or X-men plan by now, and Fantastic Four teaser. They also should’ve released a Shang Chi filming started by now. The first one came out in like 2020. At this pace he won’t have a sequel until 2026.

Bringing back the OG Avengers means these people probably don't understand what made those early up till Endgame films so successful. It wasn't the cast. At least not entirely. It was basic serial storytelling. Load the premise with a compelling question that hooks audiences. At the end of The Hulk, show Iron Man in a bar with General Ross. "Holy shit, these films are in the same universe. What happens if the characters meet?" The Avengers in 2012 answers that question. "Who was that purple guy at the end of The Avengers?" And the MCU drags that out till Endgame. It's basic serial storytelling that hooks audiences. The charisma and the appeal of the cast absolutely helps. But it needs that serial storytelling element that poses questions audiences want to see answered. And I don't see that with Marvel right now

I think End Game just ended things so well it’s been hard to continue since that

Marvel used to be fun, you used to leave the theater feeling good. It’s just too depressing now. People go to the theater to escape how crappy life is, not have it rubbed in our faces.

Exactly. They should try to make Kang the next Thanos. Just simplifying the stories and give content that teases him.

The first step is to get out of the multiverse saga as soon as possible. Then create a concrete story around x-men and the remaining avengers such as Shang-Chi and Spiderman. Dr Doom would be a great antagonist. The disney shows should not be vital anymore, but rather extra insights into the Marvel world (for example, Okoye exploring wakanda)

Thanos really didn’t have that much screen time prior to infinity war and endgame. We have seen way more of kang than we ever did of thanos before the avengers have to step in and stop kang

I'm okay if they bring back RDJ and a few others as evil, alternate Avengers in Secret Wars. But that's it, otherwise give us X-Men already.

Why does the MCU have to have phases? All that does is indicate everything is building towards a singular, climactic storyline. After the Infinity Gem Saga, maybe it’d be best to give everyone their own space and let things breathe for a few.

The last time I was excited for a marvel movie was endgame.. last movie I saw was Shang Chi and although I enjoyed I just felt like there was nothing to look forward too. That and Disney plus releasing 50 shows a year made it to hard to keep up

Yeah, the reason CGI in She Hulk was flawed was not only because it was rushed but for the same reason Kevin Feige has Marvel Studios redoing Daredevil: Born Again and that is having held off from having the main character wait too long in the show to become the titicular superhero.

After watching The Suicide Squad & Peacemaker, I wish that's how the MCU was re-estructured with one or two big movies and series per year that either follow-up or are set before the events of those films... It would've been so rad if the MCU just took a hiatus after Endgame and came back this year with a Sam Wilson lead Captain America Film where he discovers that some people came back from the Blip / Snap as Mutants and everything just followed from there, heck, Bucky could've returned as some new version of Colossus! Something more bold and unique than the paradoxically, milquetoast yet convoluted nonsense that plagues the comic books and now, the MCU.

We made MSheU jokes, but that info about Blade, holy shit.

As cool as it would be to see them all back, this does admittedly sound desperate.

If they get RDJ he can say any number and they will give it to him.

I think that marvel can turn it around

remember when their end credit scenes were used with a purpose…they actually led to the next film n allowed the fandom to theorize…now nothing connects n it all feels random…look at Charlize Theron character talking bout incursions or half a Celestial sticking outta the Earth…its nothing important…u gotta read that Marvel tell all book that was just released…juicy to say the least

What Marvel SHOULD do...focus on Fanatatisc Four. The XMen movies were good enough.

Marvel's mistake is over saturation. Too many shows that all have to be in continuity with each other and the MCU films. Fans are burnt out. The requirement to watch several hours of streaming episodes in order to understand what happens in the movies has become too much. The MCU has gotten too big and confusing. The multiverse made an already bad situation worse.

We need QUALITY. Not quantity. No need for 15 TV shows nor 30 movies every year. 2-3 movies, 1-2 TV shows, a cartoon here a game there. Period.

Making bad comic book films is equivalent to failing an open book test. Both Marvel and DC have the blueprints but fail to use them.

If the Blade movie is not rated R, then don't do it. It may probably be better with a smaller budget.

They're already juggling too many characters, and the solution is lets grab the old avengers and throw them back into the mix!? Less Is More.

The movie I forgot that came out last was Morbius.

Hollywood needs to ditch its obsession with superheroes. So many fantastic stories are yet to be told on the big screen. One of the best selling books of all the time ‘The Odyssey’ has yet to be made into a film. Theseus and the Minotaur still hasn’t been touched. Hero and Leander is one of the greatest and most heart wrenching love stories of all time, and it’s yet to be turned into a film. Outside of the Greek world Queen Amanirenas, queen of Nubia who fought off the Roman invasion has still not had her story told. Some of the greatest stories ever told we still haven’t put on film.

I think Marvel is in trouble because let’s be honest, I’m still an MCU fan and I’ve enjoyed the movies that some audiences were divided, but when it comes to the VFX stuff, I think they have a problem with that issue. People earned their hard work when it comes to dazzling action moments that make the franchise stand, but If I were Kevin Feige (not hating on the guy), he needs to do something on not making quality over quality when it comes to its content. I did watch Secret Invasion and well…I won’t say it’s a bad show, it was a diluted disappointment. Despite its great performance by Samuel L. Jackson, but the story feels cold. It’s kinda like a lost episode of Agents of Shield. And I agree that the Marvel continuity just starts to wane a bit. It’s just the lack of Marvel content that Disney+ is making is way too much. Just take your time and focus on the planned shows that needs to be scrapped.

Did someone say Galactus, forget Kang and the Skrull, Galactus is the only big threat worth fighting.

It was bound to happen there was a time were every marvel movie was hitting one after another it is impossible to keep putting out consistent great movies like how they were doing !!!! I m not shocked by this

They got wayyyy too ambitious after Endgame, when that was supposed to be a perfect time to put a halt on everything and focus on how to properly set up Phase 4. Then during Phase 4 they can figure out the rest from there like they did with Phases 1-3.

Chris Hemsworth said fuck a paycheque gimme a hammer and I’m sold 😂😂😂😂😂

Like the avengers it just a team it changes overtime with different people on the team

Who would have thought that the villain that would bring down the entire marvel universe was Dr. Dolittle

When they damaged the kang statue in the first episode of Loki that was Disney's way of saying they dont fw majors 😅

I think it's a good thing if they acknowledge that the current situation need to be course corrected and pro actively doing so rather than to wait and see For me it's kinda unfortunate that MCU finally made movie featuring an asian character, and it's a good one nonetheless near this current situation

They should bring back Ultron, you can't really killed Ultron because he could be in any device or computer and etc, if they can bring back Ultron, they can bring Tony Stark back to undo his creation

And the price for Disney plus is crazy with the same shows 😢

Think half the problem is that they forgot that the characters should look cool. Most of the more recent action figures went on clearance for a reason.

Smh This is all really ironic, considering this same shit happens all the time in comics (Marvel and DC in particular) where they try to introduce new ideas and concepts, only for everything to just go right back to the status quo because the product isn’t selling like it use to.

Marvel is screwed. This is a drastic move and also shows that there is high lack of creativity in their team. Moreover they have an unsustainable model. Multiple pricey blockbusters that dont even breakeven. When you are unable to find ways to make more money without going back to previous projects...you know as a business, you are in a huge trouble.

If Martin is talking, we don't need flash cuts back to Korey nodding or saying yeah. Someone's a little trigger happy on changing cameras me thinks.

Martin asked why the big bad isn’t around more. I’d just like to point out that Thanos showed up briefly only twice (maybe 3 times) before Infinity War. Also to the Johnathan Majors argument… Nobody talks about that case outside like they did with Ezra. Not too many people even know and those that do, understand the case and that he’s innocent.

I dont see Kang as a threat well mainly cause he's died twice against Loki and Antman then dozens of times as Victor timely so i don't see Kang as a threat period whos next doom ugh i wonder whats going to going on with him......

What exactly is Korey talking about with the canon messed up and stories conflicting lol?