Is Matt Mercer a Harsh Dungeon Master? - Vox Machina, Ep. 50 | Critical Role Demystified 

Have you ever had a cursed weapon in your campaigns, either as a player or a GM?

"...There wasn't a scarecrow before" is peak two-sentence horror.

There's only one thing Travis loves more than Laura, and that is evil swords.

Of course, Matt knew she had rivivify prepared. Remember Matt was telling Ashley what spells she had used last session because he was playing her character. He knew exactly what spells she had prepared.

I don't care if it was a miscommunication. Travis rolling a Nat 20 on his first saving throw, then rolling again with disadvantage and getting a Nat 1, is one of my FAVOURITE "the dice tell a story" moments on the show. Also finally convinced Grog that Craven Edge was 100% evil and using it was a bad idea. Also, Sam's "Wait, casting a spell breaks invisibility? Okay then I'm fucked" is PEAK Critical Role to me. Sam loves role-playing failure so much that he actively avoids using the Luck feat in later campaigns (unless it makes things worse lol).

There are a lot of factors going on, but i think sometimes Matt's rigidity depends on which players are involved. Travis and Sam hate to be given leniency, and in this ep I think Travis really wanted to feel the consequences of his actions. I think Matt was partly going out of his way for Travis to experience it, even at the expense of some harshness to Ashley who was jumping into a boiling pot unprepared. But Pike and Grog have a deep connection and i think Matt wanted to create a dramatic moment for them to conclude the previous episode's happenstance. So i think there was some juggling of his players' priorities going on behind his decisions.

Fun fact by the way, while Vax said they've been noticing Grog's odd behavior due to Craven Edge for "weeks" (since it has been in terms of episodes), it's actually only been 11 days since he first used it, to intimidate Daxio's servant.

I think Matt's thought processes about the Revivify and whatnot were very fair, not necessarily as a punishment to the party for being slow, but to Travis. He made numerous, repeated, very conscious choices to give in to the temptations of this sword, and - even though Travis was mistaken about the Exhaustion level - it finally came back to bite him. I think Matt was trying to push that there were very serious consequences for Grog's choices, and he didn't want them to have an easy out. Considering how much ressurection ends up happening in this campaign, I think his instinct was right

Sam loves failure so much that he hates the luck skill as he wants to be able to roll a natural 1

I think attempting to increase immersion by putting pressure on players to have the right solution immediately is a very teacherly, enforcing way - and often doesn’t increase immersion, but reduce it, because players can become paranoid and end up immediately scouring the character sheet instead of speaking first, living as the character, and justifying it later

I do feel like they're really cutting back on the "deaths" in the LOVM animated show to just the critical (lol) ones, like Vex in the Raven Queen temple and Keyleth at the Ziggurat post-Briarwood (which they swapped from Vex, probably to increase the impact of Vex's first death). We see that with this episode where Grog dies as opposed to just being severely weakened by loosing Craven Edge. I'm curious to see what other party deaths they're going to try and work around, I expect at least some of the party is going to end up not dying by the end, lest death become too commonplace. My (spoilers) guesses for deaths they'll probably keep in: Pike's (prestream) death that turned her hair white, to be revealed later Keyleth swapping for Vex at the Ziggurat (already happened) Vex dying to the Raven Queen temple (already happened) Percy to Ripley/Orthax on the glass beach island Scanlan to Raishan which kicks off the Bard's Lament Vax at some point to have his return at the hands of the Raven Queen I think Keyleth's going to swan dive off a cliff, but it won't kill her, she'll just make a comical sound and be bandaged up by Pike in the next scene. and Vax needs to end the series walking off with the Raven Queen, because he's now a permanent, undying part of the Tal'dorei mythos & lore.

Had a cursed pirate eyepatch in my most recent campaign. Gave advantage on intimidation checks, but any hostility toward the character caused a DC 13 Wisdom save from anyone toward the character or they would attack her. At first, it was great as a "I get to tank because characters come to me". But as time wore on, the DC became 15 and hostile became "disagreeable". Finally, the DC became 18 and disagreeable became any disagreement, even the people she trusted. There were many hints that there was a curse, many NPCs who accused her of trying to make them attack her, but it didn't become an issue until party members started gunning for her.

2:41- 2:49 I love Liam’s facial journey here as he looks at the roll, looks at the camera, and then looks at Marisha while holding up a single finger. Just the mix of surprise and delight. He’s so goofy.

Was this episode the first appearance of Marisha's "YOU ARE LYING!"?

Matt was asking Ashley what spells she had prepared because she had been away for a while and he was anticipating this happening. Since he had been steering her character before this, had loaded it in for this possible event. He knew she had it ready because he made sure she would, knowing this was a possible outcome of the cursed sword. Sam did rub me the wrong way early in the game, but I began seeing him in a better light the more he played because of his willingness to accept failure as a possible state of the story. I've played with people who don't like the idea of failing, and it bugs me. A big part of having the random chance in game is that failure happens, and an even bigger part of the fun of it is trying to "fail forward." Failing Forward, by turning a possible loss into a salvageable win is part of a good story. The Sundering of the Fellowship in Lord of the Rings makes for a better story, as we have all the fallout and other stories that branch from that failure.

I see Matt do that a lot. Where he takes the rambling and time that players are talking outside of the game, and makes it the canon time IN the game. And I don't know if I like it that much. For some things I think it really does work, and I see that it has the purpose of ensuring the game doesn't lag (especially since it was a live show). But it felt like he relied on it too much sometimes, and the consequences for it often felt way too harsh.

9:41 I think you're right that Matt was harder, and I believe the cause was lingering hangover from Tiberius. I think there was some frustration on his part on how things had happened, and on players as well, and this made him a bit stricter. He has also said in interviews that he had originally tried to bow to the audience by being more Rules As Written, as they had been very critical of him.

Feeding the beast like Grog fed Craven Edge with his soul. I feel like Matt is a fair DM most of the time but yes there are moments that feel harsh, and as you said I'm sure he's been pressured into feeling like he has to follow the rules as written by the internet (that's pretty much been confirmed). I'm glad he's found a balanced ground nowadays. Thank you for pointing out *why* Percy felt like the body had to be put back. Sometimes Taliesin's comments and character moments, especially as Percy, gets lost in the discussions of the table and because Percy is the logic one he can come off as "too cold hearted" when he actually care more than people see.

I do think Matt confirmed the Vecna Greed thing was unintentional

i'd never call him Harsh (especially in C3) but he does sometimes seem inconsistent about his enforcement of different things.

To anyone saying Identify would tell them that the item is cursed, Per the DMG "Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse". Identify should not tell you if an item is cursed. Neither should Detect Magic.

It's hard to decide, as a DM, when to intercede for your players and just tell them the answer. But I think this was one of those times. Pike is a cleric and knows what spells she prepared last. Unless Matt didn't know (in which case he could have been a little more direct, even though he was trying to get the list), he should have just outright said "Pike knows she has X spell that will fix this"

also remember matt said that he was struggling (and still kind of does) to find a balance between the rules and what HE wants to do because it's a show. He'd get comments from rules lawyers about stuff and it genuinely effected him

Congrats on having so many videos done. I hope to see another 200. I totally embrace the chaotic way of playing by Sam, as I said in another video, I think we can learn something from every member of the cast to improve ourselves and that is what we can learn from mr Riegel.

The drama of the rerolled save and the drama around the time limit on revivify was the most dramatic and narratively compelling part of the session. Him accepting a 14 initiative is not him deciding he was wrong to ask for initiative or walking it back, it was just a “roll this and don’t botch it” situation which is a common dm tool to introduce a sense of risk without being overly punishing. It feels like such a bad take to look at all the exciting drama from this situation and proclaim that the DM’s choices that made all that happen were just wrong, walked back (even though they weren’t) and overly harsh.

The scene with Grog dying has always upset me, because he shouldn’t have died in the first place. BUT I’m upset because the stakes of his death at the moment didn’t feel that high. Could you imagine this situation happening before the final fight against Veccna? Or if Craven edge really was trying to get more control over Grog’s body? It’s still an amazing scene but one of the biggest What Ifs of campaign 1 for me.

Thank you Mike, I look forward to these vids every other week

As for the revivifying Grog, Matt walking back the initiative. It's always easier to walk back a determination than it is to "walk up" (if that's a thing).

Congrats on 200 videos!! You rock.

I recall, I think it was in an interview with Brennan Lee Mulligan, that Matt mentioned that once Vox machina really took off, the series was getting a lot of comments being rules lawers abiut everything, and he felt some degree of pressure to be "perfect" on the rules. He went on to elaborate that he eventually decided that it was best to play what was going to be fun, interesting, and fulfilling for his players rather than stick to the book and nothing else.

Sam is a player that absolutely embraces the chaos

Rolling with those punches

"Right, Matt? Matt? HEY, MATT!" 🤣🤣🤣

I always enjoy these videos whenever they appear in my recommended. Thank you for the lessons. X3

I love when you post because it reminds me to continue C1 and I watch a couple of episodes before I forget and the cycle repeats! Thanks!

Some great laughs, some great lessons! ❤ Quick note, at one point when you said "Westruun" the captions say "Whitestone", should be an easy fix that will make understanding loads easier for folks relying on the captions ❤ Thank you again for your attention to equal access

watching these episodes is like rewatching the show as well ❤

Best part of my day 🙏

These make me so excited whenever one releases :)

Congrats on 200! Keep it up!

Am I misremembering, or do the rules for cursed items say that identify generally WON’T reveal if an item is cursed?

Always enjoy these videos

I think Pike is still a Life Cleric at this point, so she would always have Revivify prepared

Really enjoy this series keep it up it's brilliant series idea

Happy 2000!!!🎉🎉🎉

Amazing video

Can't wait for Episode 52

Happy 200!

That "Hey Matt..." fucking took me out. 😂

Travis getting an evil sword every campaign is my favourite thing. Hope it continues.

00:30 no joke - Travis in that intro awoke my bisexuality

Happy 200 🎉

[comment for the algorithm] No weapons, but my current character is in possession of a (cursed) puzzle box which, to make a long story short, allows him to communicate with his warlock patron(?). It also makes me rage if removed from me. So that's fun, especially because my session tomorrow will likely be the party confronting my character about all the weirdness and secrets he's been keeping...

I had a recent example of walking things back when I realized that I was being too strict. The party had a plan where one member would run forward and cast a spell, and then run back where the rest of the party would cast crowd control effects (they were fighting mindless zombies and bezerker'd cultists and such). Technically, casting the spell started initiative so I called for it. Then realized that the party was disappointed with that, and walked it back and let them get their awesome setup. The fight was still intense, so they had fun. But I could see the party start to have fun again after I walked back the initiative. So long story short: fun is more important than rules, and bending them to let your players do cool things in service of fun is a good thing to do.

The character wouldn't forget the spells they have prepared, so I'd tend to be lenient about that. In the same way that players should try not to use their OOC knowledge they don't have IC, sometimes they should get the benefit of IC knowledge they have forgotten OOC.

I always thought this about Matt in Campain 1 Especially during the encounter with the pixies in the feywild

Love the videos, Ive been watching your demystified series as i’m going through the campaign. I was a bit disappointed with the alluding to spoilers like the Craven Edge reference. Just stating that information was fine but then the joking about surely Matt wouldn’t do that basically confirms that. All in all great vid and I cant wait to finish ep 51 so I can watch the next. ❤

This was one of my favorite arcs. Percy knew from the moment he gave grog Kraven Edge that it was a cursed blade. All the RP moments between Travis and Matt were fantastic, the party made cursory efforts to insight and stop grog from using the sword, the whole reason Grog WANTED to keep the sword, Travis is a fair player. He realized that con save was supposed to be at disadvantage and he did it. Travis and Sam are notorious for accepting and RPing into failure. That’s stuff I still struggle with. And while there are consequences, Matt always allows opportunity to turn the tides of fate.

❤ Happy 200!❤🎉

The initiative check was both completely fair and a genuinely really cool usage of that skill check. Not only had Ashley taken a very long time to call Revivify, but the party *had* done several things within that time. It would be one thing if everyone was still deciding over the course of that whole period of time and the game world hadn't progressed but it had and she was lagging behind it. Yes she had just come back from an absence, but at the end of the day, the stakes of your world need to persist, and it's really not that hard to remember that the "Revivify" spell is the one that revives people. I also don't think that he "walked back" on the check or ignored it. It's possible that the DC was just fairly low.

Happy 200 :)

Happy Bicentennial Episode! Here's to many more.

All sentient magic items are capable of taking control of their wielder. DMG Chapter 7: Treasure>Sentient Magic Items>Conflict DC 12+the item's Charisma modifier or be charmed for 1d12 hours. While charmed, you must try to follow the item's commands.

Great video as always Mike, I just have some small creative criticism. Is it possible to move the mic at all? It's kind of distracting when I'm trying to watch and sometimes I find it easier to look at people's mouths when they talk.

I think its worth discussing making suggestions to your players. The situation you describe here is Ashley having revivify but not realising it, and Matt (and maybe the others) not willing to suggest it out of fear of "playing someone else's character for them". We see them being reluctant in this way in other episodes as well. But I believe this is misplaced. Certainly nobody should be saying "hey you must/should do X", and double so during roleplay rather than during a more mechanical moment (like a fight, or this situation with a character death). But the truth is that Ashley is mechanically a poor player, especially during this time in C1 with her disruptive schedule, and it should be no surprise that she will simply forget parts of her character. I've played with players like that over the years, and in my experience literally none of them have ever responded negatively to me (or another player) pointing out "hey, don't you have a spell/ability that does X?". In my experience, mechanically poor players like Ashley really appreciate being reminded of cool/useful stuff that their character can do when they've (momentarily) forgotten it. Because the reminder allows them to consider it, and if they like the suggestion, go forward with it. In no case has anyone in my groups ever considered this "playing someone else's character". Instead, people are happy to be able to use a cool ability in a cool moment, or are happy that they can play their character in a way that matches the fantasy in their head - even if they need some assistance with the actual rules. I think overall, especially when it comes to fights and when it comes to mechanically poor players, the CR cast shouldn't be as worried about "playing someone else's character", and accept that sometimes people need, and appreciate, some help from mechanically stronger players/the DM.

Matt has also said early on he was more strict with the rules more than he wanted to be because it was being streamed and the audience but he got past that at some point

Hey man, sorry to hear about your grandparents. It hurts only because there was Love.

8:00 this is quintessential why I struggle with CR: the players don’t know their spells or abilities.

I will admit, I'm mad curious as to why the recap stream where Sam read the letter is no longer online (was actually looking for it a couple days ago, so that answers that I guess). But if you don't want to talk about it I understand.

I think sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. If you were any harsher than Mercer, I can say for certain I would not enjoy playing with you. Edit: also let's be real. There is a reason Mercer is beloved as a DM, and is quite possibly the most popular DM for the most popular campaigns for non-DND fans. People love how he runs his games. 'The Mercer Effect' exists because Matt Mercer is so amazing as a DM that people feel disillusioned about their own DND experience as a result. Anyone who criticizes Mercer (which I think we can do- nobody is perfect) also needs to also acknowledge that he is in a league of his own and also deserves props for that.

Being able to use the dice to tell the story is apart of D&D...otherwise why have dice. We see how it works with Grog & Scanlon...Having a DM to interpret the dice to move the story shows the skill of the DM. Maybe even the flexibility of the DM to change the direction of the campaign. As I watched campaign 1, I saw how the whole direction hinged on one roll of a die. That is the thrill of watching D&D actual plays...where will the story take us!

If you listen carefully to the memories that Pike sees through Craven Edge, you will see the veiled reference to Vecna in them. The whole reason none of the wiki has all the info on the sword is because the whole description was never said on air. If someone were to ask for it from Matt or Travis, maybe we would get it? Somehow I do not know how anyone could say that none of them live for the shenanigans that can ensue when things go awry. They are constantly screaming "let it happen", "do it" and "yes" with the most gigantic smiles laughing. They live for the drama of it all.

Oh yeah, the sword thing, that's a one-off. Definitely. For sure. 😂

it really helps make the show much more watchable when players like Sam just roll with it and don't make a big fuss about technicalities! like you can still discuss the details like sam did here without dragging down the mood or making it unpleasant and that's what I really appreciate about Sam

Nothing wrong with running things strictly RAW as long as you enforce it for npcs and pcs alike. As long as your players know its evenly applied, they won't be bummed out by it.

To be fair, Chetney wasn't supposed to pick it up!

so im of the opinion matt is really wise at choosing when and how to handle situations. and saying hes strict in campaign one is almsot crazy to me. they played with crazy ass weird rules that made the party way more powerful than the other games. and being lenient in the moment with ashley in this moment was mathew being nice like he said in the video. but in my opinion it was a mix of she hasnt played in months and that outside of the game mathew said a lot of the cast members were going through a lot. he gave ingame boons buffs or was very lenient because he wanted them to have fun. in example liam was going through a lot and in the campaign wrap up he outright said the fate touched thing was a gift because he wanted liam to feel better. and seeing how in later games. the more "strict" nature of mat also coinsides by the evolution of his players and their absolute trust in his world and game that they are okay with their characters dying and that it builds a better story as the cast members have stated is why i think the game has changed, which to me is awesome.

Who was the one player in particular with the harshness of rules or whatever from 9:52

I blame DnD about the revivify spell. If it was more clearly named "resurrection" then the player would have a clearer idea of what they are capable of. Also, it always bothers me when the GM/DM let's players forget their spells/abilities. A player might forget things but to imagine that a character would forget the abilities they have spent a life time learning is ridiculous. I always help my players if they want it and if it's something new that they are figuring out, then I give them some sort of roll for it (Intellect/Wisdom or something.)

Its weird cause another cursed weapon would be cast identiy on much later, but matt didnt seem to inform that it was cursed

Dope video, eat up momma Algo!

On the subject of Craven Edge's influence over Grog, I feel like some of the best use for mind control elements in D&D is to use them to reinforce bad choices the player makes themselves rather than to directly alter their behaviour. Mind control is often frustrating to roleplay unless you specifically enjoy playing that trope out. As a player, you're either rolling dice that the DM tells you to roll, or not rolling at all because the DM's outright controlling your character. But in this context, Craven Edge has a much subtler influence on Grog. Rather than Matt just telling Travis what Grog can and can't do, he lets Travis make the choice to use Craven Edge, and keep using it despite the warning signs, and gives him a save to resist its nudging every time, that makes it much more fun for the player than it would be if Matt said "You _have_ to use Craven Edge in every fight now, and you _have_ to start attacking your friends." In terms of cursed weapons and items, I _was_ the cursed weapon once. In one game, I played an ancient warforged with a shard of an ancient fiendish god buried inside him. After he was forced to let it out during our first adventure, he was forcibly multiclassed into Warlock (Fiend/Blade) as the god's essence slowly corrupted his body, mutating his left hand, then the arm, then down his torso and leg. At first it just turned his armour black and red and shifted it into sharper, more angular shapes, but the more it went on, the more his mechanical internals turned into bone and muscle and skin. Eventually, his left arm wasn't even an arm anymore, it was a mass of six tentacles, covered in claws and teeth, that twisted together into the shape of an arm and covered themselves in armour to appear more normal. As we levelled, so I took Warlock levels instead of Sorcerer ones (my original class), as the shard acted like a parasite and continued to make itself stronger at the expense of its host. When he got angry, his eyes would glow golden instead of their normal blue, and he would begin to speak in two different voices, the second one quieter but much deeper and bassier (His normal voice sounded a lot like Starscream, so it was a fairly stark difference). Near the end of the game, the DM and I sat down and worked out a full list of the things it could do, giving it some incredible powers (it's a piece of a god, after all) that had terrible side-effects. Most of them would dramatically increase the corruption. The most benign one was that he rolled twice on all mental saves, not as advantage, but because there were two minds in his head. If both he and the shard passed, no issues. If both failed, then the effect went as normal. If he passed and the shard failed, then he would largely be fine, maybe slightly hindered by the dead weight in his brain. But if he failed and the shard passed... it would have the length of the spell's effect as the _sole being in control of his body._ As the shard was incredibly aggressive and destructive, and also wanted to be in control, it would doubtless start spamming the corruptive powers to corrupt him further. Sadly, that one never came up, it would've been quite fun to play my character shutting down and then suddenly waking up as someone else. Eventually, he was forced to fully give in to the Shard, in order to save the rest of the party from an Invulnerable foe by casting the Shard's Flesh to Stone on him, and he managed to dupe the party into helping him acquire another piece of himself. Fortunately, all of this was played by me, without the DM's input, which really help it feel more fun than it would've if I was basically a glorified DMPC for half the game.

I think this time period of Matt being harsh is also a result of a player that is no longer at the table. It's why he is strict about spell use and no backing from the choices made.

I find that Matt's "harshness" is more often a perception bias from the audience. He established pretty early on in C1 that the world continues on outside whatever area the PCs are in. This is shown multiple times throughout all three campaigns. It's when an "outside" thread gets entangled with their current reality that some things can feel "harsh". I am thinking of a particular fight around episode 30ish of C3. Good video, Mike.

I think your assessment is fair. Matt can get stuck on an idea, and you can see it gumming up the works of the game, and then he usually reconsiders and either realizes he's in error, or just suggests an alternative that flows better. It's something I think he works on pretty diligently, and sometimes overcompensates for (his players really do get away with some wild stuff, especially relating to how much time has passed) and as such, his success varies game to game. I do think his not wanting to tell players how to play, can be at odds with the Dm's role as the sort of living reference doc for how things work, being the arbiter of the game. There's nothing worse as a player than being caught up in a dramatic moment, and trying to figure out what you should do, when there's a clear mechanical solution staring you in the face that is just not coming to mind. It is frustrating, because your character would know that (Pike for example would know what spells she had prepared without thinking hard about it, and she'd know revivify would solve this, having prayed that morning to have that ability when she prepared her spells.) while you're scrambling like a doofus. Telling a player how to play is telling them their ideas are bad, and they should do X. Telling them, that there are spells to bring back the dead, and Pike may have one prepared is just good information for a DM to pass along to a player, especially one who has been away from the table for a while. Asking guiding questions can be good, but I think if you know they have a solution that should be mechanically obvious, and you're throwing hints, it's time to just go over their options with them in a more direct and clear manner. (The rules for Craven Edge's "will" might just be the standard Intelligent Magic Object rules from the DMG, it's just possessing and taking over a PC all the time is no fun, so maybe Matt just adjusted it into a narrative thing.)

At least they didn’t leave him hanging forever like another campaign

I'm happy you cut out Percy's edgy staredown with the sword. Percy is a great character, but that moment felt so out of place, with Percy just suddenly getting some kind of giant black aura as he tried to out-edge an evil sword. Honestly almost sucked me out of the situation when I first watched the scene.

Asking if Matt is harsh when C3 is airing is a funny juxtaposition.

Hey, Matt? Hey! Matt! Hey, MAAT. HAY MAAAATT! MAY HATT! .....

Was it around this time that it was mentioned that there were a lot of rule criticisms from the community? I honestly don't remember, but if that is the case Matt may have been trying to play more "by the book" in response to that. I think as they got more experienced in streaming and ignoring the vocal minority, he relaxed back to a "this is a game, have fun" mentality.

Hugs for you ❤‍🩹

I don't know about harsh but I do think revivify should work without the usual skill checks. I like Matt's system for resurrection using a ritual but revivify, to me, us not a ritual and represents snatching a soul before it can depart the body.

I miss 'YOU ARE LYING' marisha lol

Exhibit 19192037 on why Travis is the best D&D player

Its funny to really look and see Travis get really sad for like half a second then immediately accept this happened and get excited to see what would happen.

Wait, shit, was Craven Edge a take on the Sword of Kas?

Matt is a harsh GM. He's just not an evil DM that gets high on punishing his players. All about context!

I feel like Matt was less of a hard ass and more wanting there to be a effect to using kraven edge, a cost and if they simply undo so easy its seem like less of a cost

I think Matt explicitly said on Twitter that the Craven Edge anagram was in fact a complete coincidence.

Honestly if anything I'd prefer if there were more serious consequences but that's also how I am as a player so it's not for everyone.