Yeah it was bad enough that he had love obsession with Emily that he decided he wanted to hurt the people of Paris just for that but now he really wants to hurt the people of Paris like even if it screws his chance to revive Emily
@@littlesparrow303 true but it’s not unnatural and obvious for anyone to think she had a husband in the first place cus sperm come from males aka men/husbands
Yeah…I’ll agree with Ms Busiter. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it did appear she had a husband from the storyboards. The wife was slapped on just cause.
I honestly was okay with representation through Rose and Juleka from the previous seasons just expecting them to naturally grow, I wouldn't have considered this show lacking in this regard until that horrible moment in Migration. "I love Juleka... And all my friends" is so cowardish, either go through with it or don't tease it in such a way, seriously...
@@Someone-qi1rrNobody is talking about it in regard of Marinette and Alya for example. There is a clear difference between real platonic friendship and a queerbaited "friendship".
@@alessandrolamera8857 it was never shown or said on screen, but we may assume it happened after "Reverser" (Marc's first appearance). The two start working on their own comic (Nath draws, Marc writes) and since then they almost always appear on screen together. Though I'm pretty sure the only reason they're considered an item by the fandom is bc someone (more or less connected with the authors) on social media said Marc's non-binary.
@S.K Star IMHO they wasted a great opportunity for that in "Penalteam". The two boys got a lot of screen time in that episode, it would've fit perfectly.
@@Orkprof so it’s just speculation? And I thought the only thing they wasted of Marc it’s his green goblinesque villain appearance that got wasted by a terrible villain design.
Many people have been asking how miss bustier is pregnant if she's with a woman. Seems like this show makes people forget about artificial ways like sperm donar.
The problem with lesbian couples with childrens is that you have to explain how was it possible, because that is an event that does not occur naturally, that is a problem in another serie, the dragon prince where the queen of one of the countries of the alliance, is the daughter of a lesbian couple in a medival magical world
People are stupid. I once saw a gay couple on Instagram who had a kid, and all the comments just were full of "how did you have a baby? gay people can't have babies! This is woke propaganda!" There were other people responding with the possibilities such as adoption, sperm donors, surrogacy, but the person kept not listening and kept just saying "No that doesn't exist, two men and two women can't have a real baby." Some people just refuse to even try to understand people different from them. And that's that. The funny thing is that single women and lesbian women were not legally allowed to get sperm donations in France (only women with husbands could) until 2021, so it wasn't legally possible for most of the show's run. I wonder if making Mrs. Bustier sapphic was a timely political move on the writer's part to show their support for medically assisted pregnancies for lesbians.
Well...yes and no. In my opinion rose and juleka have more representation from season 1 to the present than any other queer relationship in the show but that's because cheek kisses, hugs or holding hands and things like that are for some reason easier to sell as "just friends" when it's between girls. I strongly doubt it was unintentional that Marc is in a separate class so that he naturally appears less and they don't have to make such touchy feely moments between marc and Nathaniel 😒 Even though canonically all 4 of those characters are queer, for the majority of the seasons their representation has been obliterated by bullshit like censorship in different countries that could have hindered the show's success so those relationships were mainly baited until season 5 when I think they gained the safety net of the show being successful enough for them to be a bit more blatant about it. So it's not so much queerbaiting as it is poor representation, since these relationships were confirmed by the writers as opposed to them being canonically straight but having shippable moments.
True! I don't believe Miraculous is purposely trying to queerbait. They just have other audiences to contend with. That scene with Mrs. Bustier and her wife was cut out from so many countries. I imagine on the teams part it's difficult to juggle all of that.
I agree, censorship is main reason. No show wants to end like the Owl House - almost cancelled with short as possible finale season, just because it was too rainbow for Disney.
i think that marc was supposed to be in the same class since nathaniel is the only one without a seat neighbour but i guess they werent allowed to do it back in season 1 since disney was very against gay back in 2015 (and still is but lesser). I really hope that in season 6 when theyll all go to a new school marc will also be in the same class.
I mean, I thought that too, but then they made Rose have a relationship with the Prince and it just felt like her and Juleka had just been baited the Whole Time and it wasn't just them having to "censor" it. Putting her in that relationship confirmed that they weren't actually dating. I pretty much dipped after that. It was so unneeded and kind of felt like a slap in the face to the queer fans felt represented by them.
I'm really tired of LGBT relationships being a shocking twist almost every time. They did it in the American special and now with Zoe. Any other LGBT couple gets only hints but no explicit confirmation.
considering that lbgt community is. minority and it is hard for them to come out, it does make sense that most lgbt situationships would only be hinted. you would see similar type “queer coding” in various shows, not just miraculous ladybug. besides, the main storyline is about ladybug and monarch so why would they focus so much on the side characters rekationships
@@nothoughtsheadempty5456 i'd argue being a minority is actually more of a reason to show these type of dynamics and relationships. also you're assuming you can't have one without the other. if the miraculous team had any competent writing staff left (if astruc hasn't fired them all already) it wouldn't be hard to do both. have an episode dedicated to marinette and adrien. then have an episode dedicated to juleka and rose. what's so difficult?
The thing about Ms B's wife. She had NO MENTION up until she was shown. No pictures, no hints at her being queer up until confirmation. But also, I just want one episode ONE EPISODE focusing on the relationship between Rose and Julika. Like how they got together, and how they act as a couple
this, its very apparent she wasn't and the moment they decided to queer bait they half ass it in a way that can be written out of the scenes at any point
because of course zoe goes for marinette lmao, why not literally any other girl. might as well say the entire character roster of the show has a crush on mari
It's rare for me to completely agree with a video, but you have such a perfect take on this. You're right. There is absolutely _no_ reason they should be refraining on showing canon rose/juleka and marcthaniel, while we get to see ships like ivan/mylene be so open. We got a whole ass episode about kim and that fish girl. Yet _so_ many episodes centric on rose or juleka, and we've never even gotten to see a love confession or kiss. "Confirmation on twitter" is a joke of excuse. Can you believe that one episode that came out recently? "I love Juleka...... and marinette and nino and alya." Are you fucking serious? You may aswell call me a slur. Showing bg queer characters genuinely feels like a "here's your representation, now shut up." And I say all this as a queer person myself.
If there’s any character I would call queer bait, it’s Zoe. No such indication she liked Marinette in a romantic way until the episode where she decided to confess. This means nothing because it’s not unique to her, Marinette had her own harem at that point, and Adrien and her are already going out, so there’s no tension of “yes or no” either. The viewers already know Marinette will say no. Basically no point. Not to mention she’s bait for people to hate Chloe…but that’s a different topic. 😅
@@FlawPink blushing equates to many different things. Embarrassment, anger, sadness, happiness, excitement. There’s no reason for me to think it was romantic in any way. And I bet you that she will once again fade into the background of irrelevancy with no crush on anyone. That’s bait.
@@winter-starlight Brought up proper in a single episode, immediately irrelevant, adds nothing, and never brought up again. Sounds like bait to me. It’s fine if people disagree with me, that’s just how I see it. Zoe Lee is even more a living embodiment of bait than she already was.
I mean I was guessing Zoe might be gay in her first episode... a crush on Marrinette, well I thought they'd be cute but I never actually thought it would happen (Then again I expect nothing from this show, it's the best way to enjoy it)
Marc and Nathaniel was such a throwaway relationship. I'd have enjoyed him and Marinette dating for a bit before parting amicably and Nathaniel and Marc get together.
Yes!! In S1 I did ship Nathaniel and Marinette because I felt that they would have been cute too and then explore more for Nat. Apparently he is bisexual at this point too
@@littlesparrow303 In retrospect, I really wish: 1. Nathaniel obsessed over Marinette like she obsesses over Adrien. 2. Nathaniel's actions showed Marinette how invasive she's been with Adrien and she lets up.
I'm sorry, I've never seen the chemistry. Compared to Rose and Juleka. Maybe a little bit in Penalteam. In season 4 / 5 they had some moments, but they were mostly overshadowed by the cringe they then put in the efforts to pressure Marinette and Adrien together. I'd say, the cutest so far besides Penalteam is Gabriel Agreste, with their diorama(s) :)
I have never ship Marinette and nathiel 1.just like with lukanette I ship Marinette with adrien at all costs even over relationships she has with that's way more healthy 2.i don't care about nathiel and yeah his superhero costume is well not bad but really not my kind of superhero costume and yeah it was his and Marc's idea for Marinette to dress up like a man ah geez I get that if you really love her you accept her not looking good but wanting her to not look good? Ha and yeah the way you drew the disguise on the knight of your comic book it's terrible I would have ripped it if I was in one of the people of the groups places and Marinette has no overactions to it when nathiel gave the idea for her to dress like a man she sounds so excited like she actually likes to dress up like a man and yeah we don't even get a sence were she takes the suit and mustache off and she's like finally that butler outfit was disgusting and nathiel makes a comic with her (in her butler uniform) and instead of overacting she's laughing Ha so called "fashion designer" I'm glad that you actually regret it I know it because in presation you are all like that's it no more mustache desiguses yeah that's what I wanted to here that's your way of saying oh why did I even feel like I enjoyed dressing like a man? I'm a 'fashion designer' and fashion designers hate to look disgusting and yeah that's the only episode that I wish chole kept her redemption on because yeah she is the person that munplativated her and her friends to do so I'd rather have a character I don't like look good then a character I do like looking good and yeah I wish season 1 chole came back while Marinette and adrien were dating and yeah I would have any problems with the Gabriel argreste episode if Marinette hasn't sneaked into the house dressed like a man or dressed like a man overreacting and yeah at least take the mustache off I consider not take the suit off in front of everyone as everyone would see her nakket and yeah as a Lila zombie AND one of her of her "friends" 'stalking' her and adrien on their romance and 3.he compared her to chole it's better than kimnette but not one of my top ships
I feel like if there's gonna be an LGBTQ relationship in a show, there needs to be build up, like most well written other couples. Just a few mentions that a character is a attracted to a certain gender is good enough. Just telegraph it, cause unlike real-life, a show's world feels linear so if you threw a curve ball suddenly, the fans are not gonna catch it and they're gonna feel like they've been cheated.
Just have alexis have a crush on ladybug. And play it out. I dont think she has any more definition, and then ask ,i dont know. Also cant that red raired artist be gay treated. Why not.
Nothing ever happens in Miraculous. Rose and Juleka's relationship moving slowly isn't queerbaiting, it's just the Miraculous writers doing their usual thing, where every plot point takes several years to be resolved.
literally. People need to realize that queerbaiting isn't characters being canonically queer but aren't in a relationship yet like.. single people exist. If someone being queer is canon then it automatically isn't queerbaiting. Yes, even if your favorite ship never gets showed
9 месяцев назад
What bugs me the most is how couples like Nathaniel and Marc are only official off screen. Sure in S5 we've at least seen them hold hands which was obviously about to be more. Until Marinette showed up because Adrien. Same with Juleka and Rose. It's obvious that they care about each other (sure you love your friends too Rose but be honest to yourself, you trusted Juleka with your biggest secret). I really hope that s6 steps up those romances and develops them further. Give us an episode focused on Nathaniel and Marc where Adrien and Marinette aren't shown to be in love but play the same part the boys did to bring these two together. Do the same for Juleka and Rose. Maybe spice things up for characters we've known to be straight, like Luka. Sure he's just a good friend but what if he doesn't care what gender the person he loves is? Another representation, the same could be said about Zoe. Make her get closer to Luka only for them to help each other (not get romantically involved with each other but with another person). Bonus if it's characters we've met before like Wayhem as an Adrien fan boy or whoever. But don't destroy couples they've already established. And one change to make this easier? Scrap all the Mr. Pigeon 199 episodes, no one likes those.
I definitely understand why people would be frustrated. I guess for me personally, I always hesitate to accuse a show of queer baiting because I never know if I'm reading more into something than the writers intended. And that's not just with Miraculous, but with every show I watch. Like, I'm not convinced that the writers for Supernatural intended for Castiel's "I love you" to be a declaration of romantic feelings for Dean at the end of Season 15, though I know Misha Collins certainly interpreted it that way. But that's just me.
The Owl House ruined a lot of romances for me in shows like this. I'm not interested in slow drawn out relationships anymore, I like seeing couples together. Also I am 100% done with baiting like this, beccause I've seen it done properly now and it just doesn't hit like this anymore.
For me it's "Phineas and Ferb" with Phinebella. Also Juleka and Rose are my two favourite characters, them being used for queerbaiting is painful and annoying
@@glimmerstantroop46321phinebella is so frustrating . The trope of protagonist who doesn't understand the love of a girl needs to improve . They should understand this feelings atleast before the final season . We deserve to see them happy
And I can never get over the fact how they ended Zoe's confession episode, I was like Come on! All these beautiful sayings! "love has no boundaries, no limitation, love conquers all!" How could they let these sayings go to being eye sparkles at the end.. Man so sad😖
Yeah and I think the reason cat is the way he is around ladybug is because of the amount of years he has been locked in his home his father not teaching him must be why he's so dumb and blind sense Marinette got a backstory of why she's the way she is around adrien AND cat noir then give adrien a backstory of why he was falling in love with someone for skill rather than personality it's about time the boys get what the girls get this Is making Thomas struck look more like a girly man than a grown man child I hope he does something to prove that half of him is a manly man
@@emelylassiter3523 well actually since season 2 when they just let Chloe's redemption arc go to waste, I lost the idea that it will gonna please me as a fan nor being improved in writings of the show, I actually do not have a problem with redemption arcs going to waste, I'm only saying it could've been written so much better. Up till now I haven't watched miraculous for hoping that Thomas will get Cat a backstory nor to see him shine once, I know this probably won't happen since Thomas doesn't care about fandom opinion. I watch it because it's entertaining and I love Kagami, Her charecter's arc always amazes me! Althou there isn't much about her in the show, I truly admire how their showing her struggles with perfectionism, trying to make friends and standing up for her sake.
I don't think it's really ok that all of these characters have long-term obsessions with other people. I mean, I just feel like we should recognize that it's a bad thing and people shouldn't act like this.
Finally someone points this out, in Season 1 they literally romantics stealing people phones, stalking your crushes, being completely obsessed to an unhealthy point, etc. I have seen other shows where the protagonist have a somewhat obsessive crush, but with Marinette she is basically a yandere without the killing. Probably the g keeping her from it is to keep the show pg(This is in reference in earlier seasons, I am not fully caught up on season 5)
I was quite disappointed in seeing half the fandom cheering for Caline + Gisèle, as if the show wasn't being incredibly hypocritical about LGBT+ representation. Back in S4, after Rose called Juleka her "best friend" in "Guiltrip", many complained about the show's reticence to just admitting once and for all that the two were an item. Astruc replied that there was LOTS of evidence within the episode to get a definitive answer about that topic, yet somehow adamantinely refused to give a straight "yes" or "no" himself. Why did I say hypocritical? Because around the same time, he chastized fans by reminding them that, if they were too explicit about LGBT+ pairs, they would be censored in several countries... but wait, it's not about the money! The issue with censorsgip is that LGBT+ kids from those countries wouldn't get to see themselves represented! Too bad countries like Russia were ALREADY censoring any ambiguous scene that even vaguely hinted at Juleka+Rose or Nath+Marc, rendering Astruc's objection invalid. Cue to S5, and now the authors & the production have SUDDENLY found the guts to be more explicit: Zoé likes girls (Deflagration, Adoration), Rose loves Juleka (Migration, albeit they immediately try to cover it up), Marinette gives a surprising and out-of-the-blue endorsement to both polyamory and aros/aces (Adoration) and Caline Bustier has a girlfriend (Collusion). OK, so... what changed? And please don't tell me "something something Russia, war", because there are still lots of countries airing MLB that aren't very tolerant of LGBT+ themes either.
Don't forget Kagami exclaiming that she loves both Adrien and Marinette (Protection). My guess is that this is the last season of the Agreste's storyline (and it was supposed to be the last of the series overall before they added more seasons with Lila as the main villain) and so they got a little bit bolder (but not by much cause Julerose and Marcaniel still haven't been explicitly confirmed in canon).
"Okay, crew, I've decided it! We're going to include LGBT characters in our show! Who's with me?!" "Doesn't doing something like that tend to get shows canceled?" "Uh, add them? I meant to say imply them! Yeah, totally! Who-who's putting words in my mouth?!"
I'm French and I'm not aware that France has more issues with homosexual relationships than other countries ? From what I see on social media and with people I know, it's pretty well accepted, although of course there are exceptions, mostly with old people.
Really? Huh, I thought the video mentioned it was otherwise. Then again, I'm not sure the show does much research on France either, so... Still, sorry if I offended any of you. I was just trying to make fun of what probably happened behind the scenes for the representation to be so subdued.
@@AnonymouseKing Dw I don't feel offended, it's ok to not know everything about a foreign country :) Still, the show is mostly made by french people, and they seem to show many historical points and events throughout the episodes, so I think they have some kind of good grasp of the country haha My guess is that maybe it's because MLB is not restricted to France, and is available in countries where those types of things are considered as an issue ? Still, I don't understand their fear of explicitely showing most of those types of relationships on screen. Mrs Bustier and Zoe are the most obvious, yet one out of two failed to date the one she loves, and let's not get started on Marc/Nathaniel and Rose/Juleka...
Yeah I think so. It’s been going on for a while with both Juleka x Rose and Marc x Nathaniel. Now we got Zoe and Mrs. Bustier which is shown in the series but it feels like it was a one episode thing and that they’re not going anywhere with it so yeah
ok but that last example isn't queer baiting, Mrs. Bustier just has a wife that is shown to be affectionate towards espeically since it's stated THAT'S HER WIFE. Queer baiting is TEASING and dangling a relationship in front of people and never going through with it. The best example I can think of is Keith and Lance in Voltron, they gave them moments, they specifically choose each other to be freed in that tv game episode, they even made FREAKIN MERCH of Klance and they NEVER went through with it. Then there was ADAM, I don't blame you if you don't know him, but as someone who was really into Voltron, I remember. Adam was teased to be Shiro's lover, but then we see him in the show, they only have ONE SCENE, where it's AMBIGUIOUS at best if they were in a relationship, and again, that's AT BEST, if you watch the scene and you had no outside sources, you'd just assume he's just a casual friend of Shiro's, casual, not even like a best friend. Adam than DIES randomly, and we get a scene where Shiro touches his name plate on a wall of those who were lost, but AGAIN, it's NOT CLEAR they were in a relationship AT BEST, if ANYONE didn't see outside stuff, I guarantee, NO ONE would have thought they were gay. No idea what I'm talking about? Of course you don't, because that's how little they cared. THAT'S Queer baiting. They LIED to us about giving Shiro a boyfriend by not CONFIRMING IT WITHIN THE SHOW, and just killing off Adam before he can have an actual impact on the plot. Mrs. Bustier? She's not queerbaiting. It's clear that that's her wife, she calls her her wife, kisses and holds her hand. It's not the best thing ever, but does it need to be? No, because gay people exist casually, I find it to be a good rep because of how casual it is, there's nothing big about it, and that's ok, and honestly, there should be more casual LGBT rep, it doesn't have to be in the fore front of anything.
@@asherville7163 I didn’t mean Mrs. Bustier as queerbaiting I meant Juleka x Rose and Marc x Nathaniel. With Voltron… yeah that kind of sucked but at least Shiro got married in the end except that it was with a pretty unknown character and only shown the last seconds of the show. I know what queerbaiting is I just meant that Mrs. Bustier’s wife is just not going to return at all. Which sure, I understand why but at the same time they took 2 random characters and made them Alya’s parents and they have more screen time than they should so yeah And I like the casual representation but I don’t want them to always be background characters or something people can say “they’re just friends” at
@@lucamagic i just spend the past 20 minutes writing a response to this and i lost it and I'm sad so I don't feel like typing it all out again but I just wanted to say I KINDA disagree, I don't like Juleka and Rose HAVE to say they are dating or are in love, but I think the show should make it a little more obvious they are, because I can understand why they won't outright say it (they can get canceled like Owl House)
@@asherville7163 Yeah I was thinking the same about getting the show canceled but like you said they should make it more obvious so people don’t take them for friends cause to be honest I don’t even know if I would’ve thought of them as girlfriends if I didn’t check the fandom but it would be nice to have some representation that isn’t like that once in a while. I think I’ve just watched to many shows/movies just for those seconds or fallen for the queerbait and that makes me a bit salty to the background representation but of course I am happy for the small ones as well just wished that we could get a bit more :/
Yes, they're queerbaiting. And situation is actually way worst because queerbaiting is not limited to just the show, Astruc claiming characters are queer on twitter without ever acknowledging it in the cartoon is also queerbaiting. Did you know that Alix is supposed to be aromantic, Max asexual and Nathaniel bisexual? Of course not because it's mentioned on twitter only and never brought up in the show what is especially infuriating to me as aro-ace person because it's not first time we're traded this way by media writers. Nathaniel had couple episodes and yet no mention of him being bi or being in apparently canon gay relationship with Marc. Max and Alix are literally miraculum holders and again no mention of their identities, not even a hint or a joke about them not being into dating like basically everyone else in their class, absolutely nothing. Those identities were mentioned once, fans got understandably happy and Astruc patted himself on he back for being so progressive and forgot about them completely. That's book example of queerbaiting, lazy at that. It makes me sad because bi and ace-aro spec people are constantly erased from pop culture when kids deserve to know there's more than just being straight or gay, that you can like all genders or nobody etc. Miraculous ladybug could be cartoon to help some kid discover themselves but sadly it's not if anything this cartoon makes comphet of aro-ace spec kids so much worst by portraying love as some magical force everyone needs.
THANK YOU! Finally someone who acknowledges that Twitter is not canon. I literally do not have a Twitter, so if it's not in the show, the informations is irrelevant. plus if it's not in any official material, it's basically headcanon. I also headcanon Alix as aroace, Max as ace, and Nathaniel x MArc, but it's not shown, so it's not real representation.
@@starsiadraws for real i'm so tired of twitter headcanons of the writers being only "representation" i have as aroace. We're not controversial, we're not taboo and yet nobody wants to do bare minimum of writing us into the shows. With Miraculus being so obsessed with straight romance it would really be enough to throw one joke about Alix and/or Max not being interested in relationships but we can't even have that.
I always felt that Bustier wasn't into guys because we never saw hints of it. I understand they can't fully tell everyone they are together with their same sex partner so countries such as Korea can air it on TV. If not they'll just cut the Bustier kiss like they did for Owl House for Lumity. We all knew Zoe's confession wouldn't go anywhere. For Marinette if she was into girls I can see her falling for Kagami and/or Fei. The only way people can know about canon LGBT is looking online instead of it in the show
We never saw any hints she was into girls either. Plus most of her earlier scenes are in the classroom, that would be completely inappropriate to speak about while teaching. I feel it would be better if she didn’t have a confirmed sexuality and she was just there as a background character.
@@TheUnamedOne832 Fei is a Chinese girl from the Shanghai special and the holder of the prodigious. A magical artifact similar to the miraculous only more powerful and allows it's user to shapeshift into a variety of animals.
The teacher having a female partner felt out of nowhere especially that she’s pregnant which obviously makes all or most of us to assume she’s with a man. If anything the main side characters should be moving forward for sure and not just side characters we don’t see much at all.
i think maybe that was the point… it’s been done many times before, they show a character and hint that they’re straight just to later reveal they’re queer. it can be done well but i haven’t seen the episode to judge how well it was done here. but i don’t think the writers misdirection tactics are something to be criticised imo
@@cryingwatercolours true but it’s more accepting when they drop hints or right away show or say something that gives it away rather than just slapping it in the face like “oh hey look at this that literally came out of nowhere”
I think it's because lesbians and single women were forbidden from getting sperm donations until 2021. Until then, only a woman in a relationship with a man could. So, maybe it was a political statement on their parts.
@@Blacknight6577 maybe. personally i disagree. i think adding hints would take away from the misdirect but i suppose it’s also possible they thought of this last minute.
I honestly don't care whether a show has lgbtq couples or not but I admit that I dislike virtue signalling which in al honesty it seems Miraculous is doing
Mahn I tapped out at the beginning of the season so this is all new to me. The miraculous writers will frustrate you with their aimless writing. The overarching arch is an imagination from the fans and the story has no end. And if the show does end, the sour milk has already expired for anyone to be satisfied with it.
9:07 if they make the relationship so minor or so easy to miss that you can’t even remember or find it when looking for it I think that also proves your point
You are right, the show definitely likes to bait us. They also polybaited us with Adrien x Marinette x Kagami, and when Zoe had a crush on Marinette, Marinette said “there’s nothing wrong with having 2 partners or even 3 “
When they could easy have q polygam relationship of game, natalie and gabriel, and they all , including emily and natalie did love each other. And its organic.
Yeah, that just sounds like the writers saying "look at us! We support LGBT+! Watch the show!" It's sad that so many shows are taking the queerbaiting route when the writing quality starts declining and the ratings diminish
@@Someone-qi1rr bruh, she literally tells Zoé - totally unprompted, out of the blue - something like "you're free to love the person you want, or the personS [polyamory], or no one at all [aromanticism]". And that's ok in principle, but it literally comes out of the blue and was never, ever discussed in 5 seasons. It's quite clearly inserted into the dialogue so that the authors can get points for "being good allues". Later in the same episode, when Mari is convinced Zoé has a crush on Adrien, she encourages her to go tell him... very in character for her.
I don’t think it’s queerbating, but I do think it’s the same issue going on with Adrinette, the reveal, the Hawkmoth defeat, and just trying to get the lost miraculous: it’s just the pandering and stretching out components of the show to keep their audience hooked. Let’s be honest, the show is holding on threads with its audience. Once those threads snap, the audience will have no reason to stay. They’re stretching this plot topic out as long as possible to get as much money as possible.
@@atlashaugen4219 and my suspicions have only been strengthened by this season’s finale episodes tbh. Like we are STILL DOING THIS?! I’m over the show tbh and I’m never coming back.
I’m so disappointed in Miraculous. I stopped watching half way through season 4 because I honestly couldn’t see where this story was going and honestly looking at it now I still can’t see what they’re trying to do with this story. If you aren’t Adrien and Marinette, then you’re not gonna get any good story and just be thrown into the background to cheer for the main couple. It’s annoying and honestly this show is just tiring to look at and watch. Don’t even get me started with the Chloe plot, this show is a fever dream now.
The best character right now is Mr. Banana. He has been consistent in all of his appearances, he doesn't become dumb for the sake of the plot, and he even got some development (he's getting his own show).
I think it’s important that lgbtq+ gets normalized and exists without being the main character, but the way miraculous implements it is so weird, definitely feels like queerbaiting to me. I totally agree to your point.
Nah, mental ilnesses shouldn't be promoted and normalized. Keep iy inside your four walls or go to therapy, but pleae stop trying to brainwash kids and ruin everything
@@Someone-qi1rrthe only one who has mental illness is people like you, wait stupidity isn’t considered a mental illness. How exactly are we brainwashing kids into being queer? Do we make legislations that makes it harder for straight kids/people to be straight? No, wait. It’s the opposite. Do we make conversion centers to make straight kids queer? No, wait. It’s the opposite. Do we discriminate against straight kids? No, wait. It’s the opposite. Your lack of brain power should be considered an illness
It's not just queer baiting. It's an example of homophobia and discrimination against the LGBT. It insults they very nature of the LGBT community, and is extremely harmful to everyone of all ages. Disney does it all the time, and it is beyond disgusting.
I miss the good old days where I could watch cartoons without any worry of propagandas shoving into your face. People really have too much freedom nowadays .
@@CyanHope😂keep what?? You are the one who crying. It doesn't mean that nowadays you can live with Dirty and free that this is victory to be forever . God created the world with men and women only. And yea go and Dance and say we are free😂😂
I usually don't defend the Miraculous writers, but I assume the LGBTQ+ representation is kinda disappointing in the show mostly because that's really all they can do. Censors, especially for a show this popular worldwide, are pretty brutal and I'm certain they are in a similar situation to where the Adventure Time writers were with Bubbline. True, the AT writers did do an overall better job portraying how close Bubblegum and Marceline were, particularly the more the show went on. However, the confirmation kiss was left for the finale, because at that point the show was over, so there was no worry if that episode got censored or if the show was stopped from airing altogether in certain countries. I think Miraculous is in a similar position at the moment. Like, they're planning to have future seasons, but the main plot lines that have been going since the beginning will be wrapped up now, so the writers a feeling more comfortable with showing the LGBTQ+ rep more overtly - Zoey confessing to Marinette (if just silently) and Ms. Bustier being revealed to be in a relationship with a woman. There's, like, 5 episodes left and I doubt Ms. Bustier is gonna be relevant in any of them, so to send off her character, they revealed her partner. I'm pretty sure that they could confirm Rose x Juleka and Nathaniel x Marc somewhere in the finale too, since it probably won't matter after that because it could be the last time we see those characters (depending on what the plans are for the future seasons). Sadly, this is still how cartoons are forced to operate, especially the more popular they are worldwide. Can't wait for a future in which this is not a problem, but that future is not now.
I repeat it society has become too driven into sponsoring foolishness, but nevertheless the writers are clearly not doing their best. The plot lines and other details would've made sense. Like Chloe becoming Mayor without any federal government intervention, or a vice mayor coming in is just foolish.
I understand you point, but it's definately possible to make a queer show. For example: The Owl House. The Owl House is a DISNEY show. DISNEY, and they had the main character come out to her mother. Bi flags for everyone. They kiss. They announce they're girlfriends. It's definately possible to make someone who's not the main characters (and still in the main cast) queer)
unrelated but i could totally see luka liking a guy. it would be good representation and also it would give his character more depth and be with someone who actually likes him
Yes, agree! And when it feels like they're starting to develop an interesting dynamic they put it back in the back burner to give more time to Marinette+Adrien, which is honestly getting real old because they also don't get to progress much
3:18 The gender swap Batman/Superman couple is basically more of an expy of a canon DC couple Apollo/Midnighter, a pair of Batman/Superman knockoffs that are in a relationship. So yah done before . The problem is we're told that off screen various characters are members of the Queer community being gay, bi, asexual and even non binary, but it's never portrayed on the show.
I am not homophobic or anything but I think that the shortage of LGBTQ characters is reasonable cuz miraculous is in the end is a kids show and in my opinion kids should not be exposed gender preference yet
bro i hate to tell ya but most lgbt+ people know their that when their kids. i knew i was into women in the fourth grade, same for knowing i wanted to transition, i just didn’t know the words for both since i was in a religious family that kept me in the dark and the school left that stuff up to the parents, basically no media at all either to make me aware. we know as kids, and not letting people know those options are there just leads to alienation by ourselves mentally and depression. like i still have heavy depression because i spent half my life trying to find the words and way to tell family what i needed during time i should’ve known and been aloud to live as what i was, instead of being forced into a life that wasn’t me. i wouldn’t wish my childhood issues in that regard on anybody. if their gonna assume somebody is old enough to watch tapes talking about puberty like they did with my school relatively young then they can explain those other standpoints too. simple as can be.
It’s hard not to really wing, can’t blame you now. Especially since content is mixed slightly. Is it baiting, From what I have seen 50/50. Yeah the LGBT+ ship are background at the best while everything else is sailing. Not all them but some. Miraculous is a love story but the love story is written never just as that exact simple it’s complex? Especially since the show really loves to bait with everyone… Remember the future of Chat Blanc and Shadow Noir the other ship of Lukenette and Adregmi. It’s that famous of potential not used yet. When will the ship sail instead being stuck under construction.
There was literally no reason to make Ms. Bustier gay, especially now that she's a pregnant character. It barely makes sense to me as an adult, how tf will it make sense to kids? They'll get the impression that a woman can get another woman pregnant. And don't get me started on Zoe, whose character was so dry and useless Asstruck had to make her have a crush on Marinette to appeal to the dumbass queer shippers in the fandom. My god this season's such a mess.
Wait, I'm not lesbian or bi and I'm a bit young to have done "it", but isn't it possible for a lesbian couple to use donor sperm ? One of the two will therefore be pregnant thanks to that man's help, but the baby will still be considerate as the two women's
@@kiyomi_kamimoto Yes, sperm donation is a thing. I'm just saying unconventional stuff like this shouldn't be normalized, and sliding it casually into a kids' show, where the people watching are the upcoming generation, sets us up for a concerning future obsessed with being "woke" and "inclusive" to things that shouldn't exist in the first place. The kids will just get confused.
I agree these relationships are there to check a box, that’s what a lot of shows do because they want more viewers which = more money. Plus it’s a kid show so why focus on sexuality? Kids dont think that deeply about sexuality and neither should we. We shouldn’t focus so much on that, instead let’s just enjoy shows and movies for the story not for who’s dating who etc. And no I don’t dislike anyone, I’m just saying kid shows should focus on the story and not about sexuality. Let them have a break and relax watching a fun super hero show without anything being forced on them. I don’t think straight couples should kiss in kid shows either. It should just be focused on the story so the kids can have fun watching hero’s fight. Plus we can’t be angry that most the relationships are straight because that’s how it’s always been so it isn’t odd and majority of people are straight so it isn’t wrong for the show to have alot of straight couples logically. But yeah, shows like this and other cartoons will always add lgbt characters to score “woke points” like you said. It’s just how it works to get more people to watch the show. They don’t actually care to have a main gay character because it isn’t what they wanna do. They will only if they want more money and viewers. So it isn’t out of touch, it’s just how all shows and movies have been for years and they don’t “have” to include a relationship that doesn’t fit their show because it’s their show at the end of the day, it isn’t about us. Even though I understand where you are coming from, you want them to go through with adding lgbt characters because they hinted at it. Which I agree, if they wanna hint at it then they should just make it obvious that those two girls are dating instead of hinting at it. It does become annoying when they do that to bait viewers to keep watching but again it’s sadly what shows do because they want more viewers and money. They are corrupt so we shouldn’t be too shocked by their actions even though it’s understandable to feel frustrated:/
You are so right, your comment is so underrated. I remember watching miraculous ever since season 1 and it is was a very important thing in my life, I honestly cannot imagine who I would be without. I wish people would just put normal stuff in kids shows and let the parents teach them about sexualities. Every family supports stuff and some families don't so they should not include something to make the kids thing of it in a good/wrong way. Honestly disney is dying. They just do it for views like you mentioned. I am so glad that I am not young and watching the show now cause I would not have understood sexualities or any of that stuff. If they are going to add gay characters in a show then make it make sense not just randomly for views. Or at least the main characters in a diffrent show.
I love juleka and rose’s relationship with each other in the series. I wished they were the main characters instead of what we got. What about you guys?
Agreed, I may just be biased because they happen to be my two favourite characters (alongside Plagg) but these two are just so much more interesting than Adrienette and they are so unimportant and wasted in this show
Ms. Bustier and her wife reminds me of my elementary teacher who also brought her baby into class with her one day and came out to us that she's lesbian. She wasn't the one who gave birth to the baby, it was her partner. She was a pretty nice teacher.
I would be fine if there was absolutely no LGBTQ+ rep in the show, but that includes no queerbaiting, no Bury your gays, and not making all the LGBTQ+ characters minor ones. The problem is that they’re trying to appeal to 2 polar opposite audiences at once. The thing is, it’s okay not to make everyone gay, but develop the minor character’s homosexual relationships instead of just having them.
I want to add that they are twisting these characters relationships. I believe its been stated that they are just friends, but you know how those higher ups with gay on the brain, ruin innocent friendships and turn them into something they are not. And that needs to stop.
Come to think of it... I don't think everyone in the show is heterosexual until confirmed otherwise... I'm pretty sure they're making everybody BI until co formed otherwise. In S1 Rose seemingly had a crush on Prince Ali, and since then she's been hinted to be in a relationship with Jul. Nath had a crush on Marinette, he too is now hinted to be in a ship with Marc. Marinette is widely believed to be bi by lots of fans, following a tweet where smbody asked Astruc "what about Mirabel+Marinette?" to which he said "yeah why not".
So he might cofin marinette being bi at the end of the show not earlier because or else the show will be canceled he might not but since he said that there is a chance that he will
@@michalelkin-bronner13 not exactly. The rumour about Mari being gay or bi started bc someone posted a fanart of her and Mirabel from Encanto, with Mari pecking Mirabel on a cheek. The author of the tweet captioned the image: "girlfriends or what?", to which Astruc himself answered "of course they'd be!", which a huge part of the fandom took as definitive proof that Mari is gay or bi. 🤷♂️ Personally? I don't think she is. There's simply no evidence INSIDE the series. On the other hand, in "Adoration" (S5) they even had Mari give an open endorsement to polyamory and aromanticism, right out of the blue, so anything's possible.
After Steven Universe got cut short for showing Ruby and Sapphire's wedding, more and more shows were allowed to have more apparent representation (Long story short, but it was basically none existent for while). While I'm glad we are getting some, cause hopefully studios can stop worrying that their cartoon is gonna be banned in homophobic countries, Miraculous is def doing the safe option, the "Disney's first openly gay character" approach. Like, It's better than nothing, but I'm not sure how many LGBT kids are gonna relate to the minor characters when they see so little. Like Marc was apparently based on a real genderfluid person, but the series basically forgot about them.
I think the point where they pulled beustie and the american heros into it is where it definitally went too far. Juleka/Rose and Nathanial/Marc was great and instead of overdosing Queer relationships they should have gone for quality over quantity. Giving those kids MORE screen time
What pisses me off is that in half the countries miraculous appears in can't show realationships at all anyway and they cut out the kissing scenes between the straight characters and yet they still only add in those realationships and kinda censor the gay ones when if you deep it,its kinda pointless?? Some countries censor anything romantic anyway but they go out of their way to make the gay realationships less romantic and have less screen time and all that??? Okayy i guess
to be honest i alwaysfelt a bit weird at shipping rose and julieka at first because they never really adressed that rose had riz with that indian prince when rose was princess fragrence who beat out chloe for attention. but that said julieka and rose ARE really cute. though i kindof wish we saw julieka nad rose become closer friend sto adrien at some point since julieka wants to be a model and adrien is a professional model and is REALLY good at supporting people and listening...especially since he actually felt like he was listening to what juleika wanted when dealing with guilt trip...unlike mari who kindof kept breaking her promise at times like bringing in others to listen and freaking out despite promising to treat rose like normal even if it all worked out. or at least adress if the aren;t offically going out because rose is sick or something at least becasue they seriously seem like they have SOMETHING going on.
You don’t need LGBT representation Gen Z is already woke enough The show is already bad enough You don’t need a force LGBT relationship to ruin the show anymore
Every time I find a good show, there is always LGBT crap in it. Like can’t there be any good shows without that? Tbh I LOVE this show..but the fact that Miss Bustier may in fact be lesbian is just sick. I’m sorry 💀💀
Exactly it’s the fact that they put miss bustier as that and ik there is a way to get pregnant without a guy but it frustrates me because I always thought miss bustier was straight I’m sorry if this was offensive or rude but it’s just so annoying and look I understand juleka and rose Marc and Nathaniel I get that but miss bustier no I hate it so much. Idc I will just head canon her with a husband I’m sorry I just don’t understand how this makes sense
@@Jemimanavis right? Like I’m sorry I just really don’t understand how this makes any sense Like I get there trying to promote it but I just don’t understand why they need to do it for miss bustier
@@gabidobre5584 Ohhh XDD. I’m not attacking, I’m simply expressing my opinion on what I think about it. I don’t see why you should care about mine whatsoever when you have your own opinions as well. I also see that you are educated by this world that this is “okay” when the Bible clearly states that it isn’t.
It's actually a huge letdown how most characters are just means to an end and only get attention when it serves the Marinette x Adrien lovesquare. They could easily make one or multiple slice of life episodes focused on the other students like MLP did with their 100th episode. The main characters were there in the background fighting something but the focus was on the rest of the cast.
I've headcanoned Zoey as a lesbian since her english VA had theorized she was one, but I do think there is queerbating when it comes to JuleRose. Compared to other shows, like The Great North, The Owl House, The Loud House, RWBY, The Legend of Korra & Craig of the Creek, the LGBTQ+ rep in Miraculous could do a lot better.
The Legend of Korra is NOT good representation. We get not confirmation in the actual show itself that they're together, they just look at each other and hold hands. They don't even have any moments together that are explicitly romantic. Heck, during a majority of Season 3 they're in entirely different locations, apparently writing, but that's it. yes they were confirmed in the comic and other outside sources, but in the show, they're not really "together".
For a sec I thought you were going to complain about a kids show showing "those sick things" to kids because ever since the new episode I was seeing many negative posts about it but I'm glad you talked about one of the main problems with Miraculous
Y’all do realize we still live in a time where child and family shows are getting canceled for having gay characters right? They still can’t be too blatant in a lot of cases.
Yeah. We can't get same sex lip kisses in kids shows in the US unless the show is already ending, let alone France where things are more strict. I think people forget that homophobia in the system still exists, and some creators are doing the best they can because of it.
It’s because companies want to have their cake and eat it too. The queer bait is for pandering to Western audiences and to boost their ESG scores, and designed in such a way where they can easily remove or censor these things for other countries. We don’t live in a time where shows are being cancelled for having gay characters. We live in a time where gay characters are marketing tools that can easily be removed for catering to a global market.
@@Creshosk Thats the thing though, miraculous isn't sticking by their principals. They're not here to make a statement, as opposed to the owl house or steven universe, they're here to make money. Therefore the "hinting" of the existence of queer characters, minus confirmation, makes it all feel very disingenuous and ugly.
@@Emily-dt1nl I can't remember... they were talking about Adrien and Marinette and Rose said something like: "sometimes friendship can lead too a little bit more!" while holding and staring at Juleka
Remember how Caline Bustier got pregnant out of nowhere in the New Jork movie and now her kid and her husband are nowhere to be found because suddenly she's in lesbian relationship? Or how Marinette's "love" to Adrien made her to draw his whole life graph, to make him presents for all his birthdays, to steal his phone, to "touch" him while he pretented do be a wax statue, to break in his house with the help of on-job firefighter and later she acts like all these things never happend neither experienced any consequences but was supported all this time by her stupid ass friends? And Miraculous creator, Thomas Astruc, announced on Twitter some Miraculous p0rn comic as canon where Marinette was naked around black guys? Come on, this show isn't worth your time.
Firstly u don’t need a husband to get pregnant U do need a male gamete but u don’t need to date/marry the person that produces the make gamete Secondly I do agree with the rest of what u said thout
@@afvp9586 Minor or not, it's Marinette's unhealthy obsession over Adren not love. If she would love him, she will accept his denial of their romantic relationship. If she would have a common sense, she won't dare to hurt him even if it can hurt her. But she already hurt him many times, so what's a difference if she hurts him again.
@@LukiKruki no no I know that, she's a terrible character that should go to prison but what I didn't understand was about the comic, since I thought a matter as the one you comment would be um harder t make canon if that makes sense
@@afvp9586 That comic in official Miraculous media isn't canon per say but the Miraculous creator was talking about it on Twitter like it was in his mind. Anyway listen, Miraculous supposed to be light-hearthed show as the official description suggests by actually it has the most disgusting things that should happen in world like Cyberpunk 2077 than in Miraculous. That comic included. The world of Cyberpunk 2077 is created as the worst place you ever can be in, not in Miraculous world. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
i honestly liked the zoe unrequited love episode as someome who has been pining over a straight girl for years and i thought it was pretty realistic. - a queer person
People are saying there were no clues to Zoe’s liking girls but in Deflagration she literally said to Scarabella “well, not yet anyway” about them being a couple I literally said right then “um zOe, ThAtS a BiT gAy” lol
@@marocat4749 Alix was already confirmed as aromantic. Same with Max (technically Max is ace, but in the context of a children's show that's basically the same as being aro)
@Commenter839 not really even though sex can't be shown in a kid show he can still be ace without being aro just that the creators can't show him not liking sex
Very typical large corporation behaviour, honestly. Genuinely telling stories about LGBT characters? Nah. Attempting to cheaply profit off those identies by plopping a few in the background and going back to ignore us? Absolutely.
They wanna have their cake and eat it too. They’ll dangle gay characters in front of people to pander, but put em in easily editable scenes to erase em in the global market to make money from countries who don’t like em .
I really enjoyed this video, like, a whole lot. I have thought similar in terms of the lack of lgbtq characters in this series and it honestly sucks how after five seasons there is no clarity, there is no real proof that any apart from the two existing ones matter for some reason. To be clear these relationships are already formed while so many which seem to want to raise their pride flag are not allowed for some unknown reason. It really sucked that Zoe wound up crushed and such but considering how Marinette has been straight this entire time and in love with Adrien something tells me the writers and people behind the show were never going to give Zoe her happily ever after, though, in the time Zoe was part of the show it was never made apparent that Zoe was into Marinette or if she was I might've missed it. Marc and Nathaniel had chances but considering so much time is put into the Ladybug and Cat Noir segments what chance is there for side characters to even shine or have a moment of confession, ugh. This video was far from preachy as it spoke the truth on so many levels. I feel like when it comes down to it Adrien and Marinette were endgame, they were set up for the big kiss, the big ship, which sadly society and the shipping community have pushed for since the ship name was established back in season one. Rose and Juleka, they kissed once during the whole zombie thing but the actual kiss was never shown and technically it wasn't even a romantic kiss at that, still, considering Disney's track record with the LGBTQ Community and such, cancelling the owl house, even a series like ducktales with webby and lena, another Rose and Juleka there, the answer is so obvious when it comes to things. Least the Owl House got its two female characters together albeit a shortened season 3 and again cancelled. I feel this series could do better in terms of representation if only it tried and maybe put the brakes on Adrien and Marinette. Heck I was annoyed with the fact that Adrien/Cat Noir was coming off a bit pushy with his feelings for Ladybug, you remember those days right? It was still Adrien being pushy...had he known it was Marinette would it have changed things? Anyway yeah five seasons down and hopefully Marc and Nathaniel finally become a thing, Rose and Juleka, even Zoe finding someone. Also just curious if Nathalie or Natalie, not sure how to spell it but was it just me or did she have feelings for Adrien's mom? She seemed awfully attached to her memories of her but could be me just reading into it.
I like to think that the writers are poking fun since we all know that rose and juleka are dating and they are just being funny. But I can see why it does come off as REALLY trying to avoid the most obvious lgbtq pairing in the show
While I agree, I assume, and from comments it's heavily implayed that they don't want to make these ships offical, because than episodes (or the seria) could get baned from parts of the word
@@polishalastor142 I know she said was pregnant in New York special, I haven't got to watch the Shanghai one. I saw a previewing clips of Felix with the peacock miraculous and somehow stole The dog miraculous. I miss the episode where Marinette told Alya her secret as ladybug. I DID see the one where Cat Noir decided quit cuz he felt left out, pushed away, add trust issues, and had a personality change acid transform into a different cat hero (taking this more seriously). Don't remember what episode that clip I saw with Lila throwing her long hair wig in the trash and changing her eyes from green to brown (out of order). And a clip of Chloe leaving Paris crying in defeat (after her conversation with Marinette backfired). So… basically, I missed a lot!
To be honest, the only thing more distracting than just adding ONE episode about a side ship, IS NOT HAVING ONE AND WAITING THE ENTIRE SHOW FOR IT!!!!!
I'm willing to give the show a bit of a pass on the queer presence since they're airing across the globe and the lord only knows other shows have gotten into trouble for that. For them to play it safe with characters so minor that it can be cut with no change to the story is sadly a reasonable choice in that regard. But MAN do I feel you about the last part, and not only the pairings. ALL characters on this show suffer from the inattetion of the writers, where we're more interested in a hundred episodes of nothing rather than take a few minutes to give these kids some badly needed depth and nuanced relationships.
Supposedly, the cards feature additional info. For example, Kim has two dads. But I think part of it might be money. If they make the show "too gay" it'll be harder to sell the show to more conservative countries.
True that. And instead of just admitting that, the director on Twitter tried to gaslight his fans by saying that they shouldn't ask for more overt representation, or LGBT+ kids from those countries would be deprived of their representation by censorship. Happened around the time of S4's "Guiltrip".
“Force” you mean showing people that exist since the beginning of time? If heterosexuality can always be present in kids shows so can be other sexualities
I don't think it's fair to compare Ms. Bustier to Marinette parents. The sweetness of The parent's relationship is on display every time they show up on screen. Ms Bustier's marriage will never get that kind of attention because we only ever see her at work. There will be very few opportunities to show her with her wife because they don't work together.
I don't think you understand what the definition of queerbaiting is. Queerbaiting is teasing LGBT+ ships but then suddenly switching and they're actually straight (see Johnlock and Destiel). Miraculous has to keep it vague so that it gets past the censors of other countries, so that's what this is.
It doesn't mean they are actually straight, it means any time a character is heavily implied to be gay but not shown or the "rug keeps getting pulled out from the audience," so to speak. It's a marketing tactic to get queer people to watch the show while still being able to collect money from homophobic viewers.
I think you are overreacting and because of opinions like yours TV is forced to try please everyone and at times feels forced. "Queerbaiting" as you mentioned might be just that they cannot step further than that due to censorship and not trying to offend people who are actually not supporter of LGBT due to their religion or whatsoever. We have one lesbian one gay couple in Mircaulous, as far as I presume, because I think their baiting is like leading us slowly (and anyway they love baiting in this cartoon in general) and last time we saw Marc and Nathaniel have some alone time and Juleka and Rose due to their personality they do not seem ready to confess to each other and it feels just about right. We have a teacher who even started her family with her wife. And if we want to be historically correct, it is completly normal that every parent is hetero due to obvious reasons. I watched a video, it is estimated that around 4-5% of people on the planet are gay if I remember correctly. I think having 6 people on the screen of children cartoon is more than to be happy for. They cannot risk being too queer or too traditional and they are trying not to make anybody angry. If they want to be played in some countries they can't even do some of the things and I think talking about lesbian couple having a baby it was already brave. And you have to respect that it is aimed for kids and you cannot force your ideology upon people that do not want to raise children in LGBT pro faith, as much as you hate it or disagree, that's a prents right. And anyway, why do we need to nowdays review everything based on how many sexualities and skin colors people have in their stories. Let artists and writers do what they want with their goddamn work. Any numbers or percenteges are not qualifications of any sort.
I'm mainly annoyed at the mostly L relationships. Granted, they can consist on cases that are other orientations and representations which just happen to result in female-female relationships...... but Marc/Nathaniel are the only potential male-male pairing I can think of, with Nathaniel maybe being Bi as him being attracted to Marinette was confirmed.
Good Ship Good Zoe confess Marinette her feelings I Ship Alya and Marinette In my story Alya Come Out to Nino as lesbian in Animan (Zoo episode) They rised together Marinette daughter But before Alya take care of her pregnant crush
Well many gay or just regular queer couples wind up getting a surrogate or they get sperm for having a baby .Do I really need to explain the procedure?
