Mavis X Johnny: Why I HATE the Everyman Trope 

I love how the Lego movie did this trope. The movie is literally based around emmet being the boring person he is. Emmet has no hobbies, nothing he likes to do in his free time, except for what the government tells him. And in the end, he became someone, which I really appreciate. The Lego movie is my favorite movie for this reason.

It annoys me that in the 5ish years Dennis has been alive, he’s already done more adventuring than poor Mavis in her entire life-

johnny literally has more chemistry with dracula then he does with his own perfect 100/10 goth wife

I'll be honest, Mavis treats Johnny as more of a pet than a husband.

what drove me crazy about this movie is that johnny practically had more chemistry with mavis’ dad than he did with her

Imagine if Johnny was written as a huge horror nerd who initially was only interested in Mavis because she was a real vampire and likewise, Mavis only liked him because he's the first real human she's met. But they grow to appreciate each other as their own people and not just objects of interest from an unknown culture the more they get to know each other. It would even make Dracula's initial dislike of Johnny a bit more understandable because he doesn't want his daughter to be gawked at like she's some kind of rare zoo animal.

The girl that wants to be free and explore the world, that inmediatly after her first romance gets married and has a child has to be one of the worst tropes, it's like you definetly took away what she desired on the first place

I only remember one scene with Mavis and Johnny that actually got to me. They’re standing on the roof about to watch the sunrise for her first time, and she’s so freaking mesmerized that she forgets the sun will hurt her. Johnny notices and very gently pulls her back into the shade so she can stay out and enjoy the view without getting hurt. Yeah, their relationship was clunky and awkward and not well written, but it did have its moments.

Yeah it always bummed me out that Mavis went from wanting to see the world then immediately to stay at home mom. Her character had so much potential but they never let her be the star of the story. The 4th movie wasn't very good but it at least gave Mavis and Ericka some agency having to be the ones to save their dumb husbands from the trouble they caused.

I hate Jonny in the sequels. He is a father for several years, but still acts like a surfer/stoner teen. Wouldn't the time as a father mature him a bit. It would been a good way to show character growth, progession

What bothers me about their relationship is that Mavis lost her mom before she can even remember her. And then she has a kid with Johnny... and her kid will probably lose his dad very young because he stayed HUMAN. Mavis and their kid are immortal, Johnny is not. So instead of dealing with this and making their relationship interesting they ignore it.

It was bugged me that Johnny starts off the first movie as 21 and him being the everyman-slacker with no real direction is fine but he spends years of his life between the movies and nothing about him changes. If I remember right he's like 29 by the 4th movie, so he's been with Mavis for like 8 years. For a human that is a decent chunk of time, they could have made some really nice plot lines involving the fact that Johnny is growing older faster than the monsters, he matures and changes very fast for their perspective. Its pretty normal for someone to experience a lot of personal growth in their 20s too, I think it would have been fine if he did remain a goofy guy but as he got older he gained a more complex personality.

I think this pairing is fine but the second movie should have been devoted to developing Mavis’s and Johnny’s character, not how Dracula’s crippling abandonment issues.

Mavis getting married and having a baby straight away always felt off, I think showing her and Johnny exploring and growing up together for a bit would have been a million times better. The wedding and the dead weight baby should have been part of the last movie. Johnny is an explorer by nature and Mavis craves adventure, by the end of the first movie there looks like a story building there but instead they have her get pregnant when she still looks barely 20 and hasn't gone on the adventure she deserves. And her and Johnny still need to grow up a bit, that should have been a plot point. It felt lazy!

"To willing to lie to his wife so his father in law can abuse abuse his grandson into having vampire puberty" I just realized how f up this series is 💀

The everyman trope is like the male equivalent of the Mary Sue, with a difference: The Mary Sue it's mostly written by insecure girls that wants to be good at everthing to be loved and have everyone's attention. The Everyman is written by grown men who wants to be loved and have everyone's attention doing...literaly nothing.

They didn't even let Mavis ACTUALLY do some adventuring/exploring, they just married her off and by the sequel she already has a baby

It has the same vibe as regular bland anime protagonists getting a handout of the powers of a god and having EVERY side character OBSESSED with their "charm". *"I'm just your average high schooler"*

"Aladdin isnt meant to be an everyman because he's meant to be poor" Dunno, that's pretty relatable to me

Johnny was so much more well written in the first movie. He was an adventurous outgoing guy who had travelled the world. Its easy to see how mavis would be attracted towards him after being sheltered and stuck in one place her entire life. He was doing what she so desperately wanted to do. We could actually see Johnny being a smart individual, seeing through what dracula was trying to do, being creative and outgoing enough to gravitate everyone towards him. The sequels just washed all that away and left us with a husk of a character, the clumsy, naive, annoying yes man. The 4th movie really ruined him.

The irony for me is that the everyman ends up being the _least_ relatable because they lack any kind of substance to relate to. There are no parallels to draw, feelings to empathize with, thoughts to mull over, or shoes to walk a mile in. I’d rather have a character that’s the complete antithesis of my being than an everyman.

I honestly never liked Johnny, didn't hate him but i found him too annoying. And tbh he doesn't strikes me as a person who is mature enought to have a child (compare him to Mavis who does seem young but does act like a new mom) the bad thing is that i love Andy Samberg,i think he is a very funny a charming guy,deserved a better character

It's always the "lazy/doesnt have a fashion sense guy x Pretty, extremely hot girl who's responsible" trope. Never the opposite

This is what bugs me about the premise of the fourth movie. Dracula had every reason to be hesitant about giving the hotel to Johnny because he’s a screw up, but they decided to treat it like he still had human issues, which he’s overcome repeatedly throughout the franchise. Then instead of having Johnny go through some actual development, they just put it all on Dracula.

Mavis: "I love the way he is" Johnny: *proceeds acting like a 9 year old in a 26 years old's body*

Honestly, he's kinda boring if he's just grouped with Mavis but I think his strongest is when he and Dracula play off each other. Dracula is basically the main character with Jonny being his foil while Mavis is more secondary to the duo.

i had a dream about hotel transylvania where mavis and johnny actually get divorced/were on the verge of a divorce and he goes thru a whole character arch about growing up and becoming a more mature person while maintaining his old interests and essentially finding a way to have a balance in his life between being an absolute needy nerd/manchild and a mature adult like Mavis. basically, he had to prove he could be More than just the everyman trope. i hated the dream because throughout the whole thing CAKE BY THE OCEAN PLAYED. CONSTANTLY. made it into a really shitty dream movie.

anime, manga and light novel takes this trope to the next level. Some of the most egregious ones can be found in the isekai/harem genre

I feel Mavis and Johnny would’ve been better of as friends. Each helping each other navigate a new world and helping them come to the grips with their shortcomings.

My least favorite troupe is the pretty, energetic, ambitious woman dating the quirky, hot in an unattractive way, lazy guy she happened to fall for out of nowhere. Drac probably wouldn't have had a problem with Mavis dating a human if the human was someone who didn't do the bare minimum and get praised for it.

In the real world these sorts of relationships between a sheltered girl and the first looser she meets usually end in a bitter breakup/divorce.

You're fucking spot on man. I'll be honest, I've started seeing this everywhere. Cool, quirky, fleshed out good character female lead falls for that random guy who, and I can't stress this enough, has 11/10 qualities of a reddit mod.

The trope I hate is "dance sequences because kids think dancing is funny" These movies are huge offenders, like "Oh watch the old people dance to hip musics" like please stop.

In the totally necessary 4th movie everyone was apparently rioting to get, it was honestly kinda interesting to see Johnny demonstrate a proficiency over Dracula, backpack traveling. He actually shown and given wisdom to Dracula, an immortal being who lived many lifetimes, but it still falls short to the fact that Johnny is still the man-child he was since the first film.

I wish a male and female lead in an animated kids' movie could just be friends for once

Jonny was the best in the first Hotel. They really olaf'd him in the sequels by overcharacterizing his troupe. The scene with him in the closet explaining his past roommate will never fail to get a good laugh out of me.

Notice how the girl is always the one who's put together and not troublesome? Like, you've NEVER seenamovie or cartoon about a bad girl with issues being saved by a focused Chad. Or a slacker girl who gets a guy who has his life put together. No instead,you find it's always the guy with issues that needs to be redeemed by a decent girl. Well,for once I'd like a decent girl to end up with a decent guy. Let the bad boys end up with a bad girl or the slacker guy end up with the slacker girl. They CHOSE that for themselves

Mylo in Atlantis is not everyman. He is very intelligent and clever. Not everyone can study ancient languages and solve riddles. He lacks confidence and is awkward but has a good heart and is brave. He is an example of first impression does not say everything

The worst thing about johnny is that in the first movie, he actually has depth to his character. He's experienced because he's travelled around the world he has many skills and stories that helps him become popular and interesting with the monster. He's understand the reason for dracula's hate of human and doesn't judge dracula for it. He's compasionate because he willingly reject mavis because of drakula's wish. He's kind because he even managed to get dracula to open up to him and finally human. He has so much potential in the first movie and it's a damn shame he didn't get the chance to actually be developed and instead reduce to a bumbling mediocer idiot

agree with everything but the comparison with the disney Atlantis movie, cuz that guy wasn't an "everyman", not only he was actually hot, wasn't he brought along cuz he knew stuff and he was like super smart or something, I may be wrong here but I remember something along those lines, like, he had a purpose and a talent

To be fair Mega mind DESTROYED this trope and told the honest truth about the "nice guy" "everyman"

"Bang the first guy she falls for" definitely resonates with me. I hate how in most films (not just family films, but they really lay into it) want to sell the idea of first love = marriage material.

not to mention she was BARELY 18. okay, 180, but still, 18 in vampire years, and she's been pent up at home with no knowledge of the outside, making her extremely naive. Johnny is at least mid 20s, and has been out exploring and experiencing the great outdoors for most of it. He's far more knowledgeable and adult than she is. And yet, when the second movie rolls around, she's still 18, but now married with a kid.

I would have preferred it if Johnny was a horror film geek, maybe an amateur film maker who thinks he knows vampires because he's seen human-made films. Then Drac could have a better reason for disliking him. He doesn't want Mavis to be misunderstood and treated like an exhibit and wants to teach Johnny what vampiric culture is really like. Also uh the vampire human age gap is... uncomfortable to say the least.

America has this weird obsession with praising mediocrity and it permeates into every facet of our society. I'm sick of it in movies and I'm sick of the "capable, strong, and nuturing" female lead having to deal with the ridiculous antics of the man-child that she is more like a mother to than a wife. The trope is gross and especially has no business in media aimed at children or teens.

This thought might be a little stupid, but please hear me out: Watching this trope continuously in childhood projects unhealthy expectations in adult life that might be harmful. Girls are taught that they have to be successful in life, because the standard female Charakter is beautiful, successful, quricky and often very perfect. They are also taught that the typical partner would be a lazy butt and that they should settle for that. Boys are taught that they get the hot perfect girl by being a lazy butt and wonder later in life why that doesn't happen. They might even project those expectations (see: "I'm a nice guy, why won't she date me?!" ) onto women and create a miserable spiral where expectations are unrealistic.

I feel like Futurama is one of the few animated properties out there to do the everyman trope pretty well. I always liked that it took Fry a pretty realistic amount of time and development for him being with his love interest to even be a *possibility*, and a lot of that came from him being willing to put his own worldview and issues aside to try and understand her better. In order to be with someone like Leela Fry had to shed himself of a lot of the pitfalls the everyman trope falls into, and I quite like that. That the world isn't patient with his slacker behavior.

I think Drac would be happy to see his daughter fall in love with a human that is wonderful, caring and interesting. Now I understand why Drac had such a big problem with Johnny. His dear daughter fell in love with someone who did the bare minimum.

The sunrise scene would have worked so much better if Johnny had used his phone to take a video of it to show Mavis. It makes more sense because it’s impossible to see a sunrise without being hit by its light rays, and it doesn’t make Mavis seem like an idiot who was either too scared to look until Johnny came around, or just never thought of looking past a corner (which, again, doesn’t make any sense considering you can see the sunrise reflect in her eyes without any sunlight on her at all)

anyone else felt super let down when in the second movie , the baby turned out to be a vampire after all? they got so close to the whole idea of just accepting their grandchild the way he is and then threw the idea away

Johnny could’ve just been a himbo. That would’ve worked.

I think the movie would've been better if they didn't include the romantic subplot and Johnny could still exist, but they become friends and Mavis tries to convince her dad to let her travel with him for the movie. Tbh Drac Hardcore believed in the Zing, so it would make more sense to his character to rally that much against it if he wasn't even a zing. Mavis gets to travel in the end and Johnny is just her travel companion. If it develops, it develops, but it would have a better pace for the romantic subplot than the movie. Or a pace at all other than "oop, instant love."

In my opinion, Johnny was tolerable in the first film. AND ONLY THE FIRST FILM. They were teens. Young love, and Mavis didn’t have any clue about the world outside of the hotel so I can understand the direction the first film was going. After that, when Sony made more movies, I find it baffling that they were still together, and had a kid. Johnny hasn’t changed even the slightest bit. He had no character growth. It pisses me off. I can’t believe Mavis would even consider staying and raising a child with that fool. Divorce him.

I have to disagree about having everyman trope un Atlantis. Milo is far from being an everyman. He is super cultured, clever and driven. He has hobbies dreams and a strong personnality. He is not only here to make unconfident straight males feel better about their chances to get a bombshell of a girl. He is here to fulfill his dream. Saving Kida becomes a new goal as he fell in love during the movie.

I took bigger issue with the whole "zing" thing. I believe it is the most toxic concept in the modern dating world. We stick in abusive relationships, choose to marry less than ideal partners, and have our hearts absolutely broken because we believe the love at first sight idea. Instead of wisely choosing a partner, we choose based on a feeling. My husband and I have a saying. "Love is a choice you make everyday. You don't fall out of love and you don't choose someone to marry based on being in love with them. It has worked very well for us."

Facts. Honestly, with Atlantis, Milo is a catch just from his smarts, determination, bravery, love for exploration. He def has it going on for himself.

Thanks for bringing up that "problem meets solution" type pairing. It's contrived, more often that not. I can understand falling for one's opposite or looking for someone with something you lack, but there's surely a way to make it more organic than the filters on a dating app. As for audience surrogates, whether it's a schlubby manchild or mousy schoolgirl, a flat (well, flatter) half of a pairing never makes for a compelling love story.

I've noticed that a lot of people seem to gloss over this one fact. Mavis and Dennis are functionally immortal, however Johnny is very much human (stated repeatedly throughout the film). Johnny is going to age while his wife and child stay the same, Mavis is going to have to one day watch her husband slowly die. Unless she turns him into a vampire, time is going to slowly take away their life together.

Sadly, Jhony was a good match for Mavies in the first movie, they weren't perfect but he was a good option for a first serious relationship. He knew about culture and history, he loved adventure, he was openminded, he was positive and was able to understand and adapt to wherever they are. While they really needed more work in the relationship, he was kind of good when it started, and could have been better with proper development, but they destroyed him in the rest of the movies.

I'd like to point out, I honestly never viewed Mavis as goth, exactly. With how the monster cast is portrayed, it seems each species has it's own customs, cultures, and clothing styles associated with them. Every vampire we see wears black clothes, the women having black lipstick. While there is nothing wrong with calling Mavis goth, I interpret her design as cultural continuity personally. And even tho she, yeah, is designed to look goth, I dont see how that makes her "better" or "above" Johny Even if the "every man" trope is over used, there's nothing wrong with it. And Hotel Transilvania is still a wonderful story (the first one at least. The second was ok. The 3rd and 4th are... I will not rewatch them. I hate that Drac got a second Zing. He didnt need that. He could have made mature unbiased friend he could use to rely on when he needed advice about Mavis. Those movies could have become alot more interesting.) Yeah, alot of girl can be petty. (Keep in mind I'm writing from a girl perspective) They're picky about the guy not having red hair, not being shorter than 6ft or at least not shorter than them, the bf has to spend half his paychecks on her with no financial gifts from her to him. Its stupid, and I think the every man trope is just what we need to normalize not dating the hottest guy and not being insecure about that. People can have types. And some people are generically hot. That wont change. But no one should base their standards of who they "deserve" based on how someone looks Mavis never stayed up past sunrise before because she was scared of it. Her father engraved fear of the humans and sun into her for years. No wonder she'd never seen it or been pressured to before!! And Mavis is more than a 2 dimensional character who likes Johny for no reason. She likes learning new things and he is a fun and relaxed person to rely on in new experiences. He likes showing her things. If anything, she was infantilized through the first and second movies because she had a child-like wonder about it all Why is Johny criticized for that when she isn't? She likes he goofy nature, but she doesn't make excuses when he messes up. When he lied to her about Dennis she was mad at him and Drac They both messed up, so she made it clear she wasnt okay with it and took the reigns back. She didn't go "it's okay, Johny didn't know better" And when it was revealed he was human, she was clearly hurt. She felt betrayed. Especially after Drac made Johny say he hated her. She believed Johny even though it was a lie. She is aware he's capable of mature wrong-doings. She can accept he's goofy without infantilizing him.

I've found that you need two things to make a complex character: 1. Who they are 2. Why they are who they are Example: Dracula is an overprotective father BECAUSE monsters and he himself have been ostracized and demonized by humans for centuries. Johnny is a goofball BECAUSE the plot needs him to be a goofball

Yknow honestly, I like the relationship with Drac and Johnny more. They bring out better parts of each other by the end of the first movie with Drac grounding Johnny a bit by telling him about himself and making Johnny actually be a bit responsible by leaving while Johnny gets Drac to have fun and helps Drac with his misanthropy. So I'd have enjoyed it even more if it was like a bromance movie instead.

Great vid, but I gotta disagree about Milo. I find it very refreshing to have a male protagonist who does not stand out because of his physical strength or looks, but rather his intelligence, determination and curiosity. He's far from an everyman, and when I was a little girl, he made me wanna be like him when I grew up.

I hate the stereotype of a person needing someone else in order to have a life. To be honest, Mavis only wanted to go and see the world, but Johnny comes along and she just so happens to fall in love and later on have a kid with him. She didn't get to see the world in the way that she hoped. What would've been better, is for Mavis to have had a chance to travel before she'd even consider meeting someone or getting married instead of being rushed into it. Drac could've possibly had gone with her and it would've been a better ending in my opinion.

Imagine how good it would have been if Mavis and Johnny just became platonic best friends instead

From what Iv'e heard, apparently Mavis was going to originally be used in a romantic drama, but that ended up getting scrapped, and so her character(which had already been designed)was used for hotel Transylvania. If you think about it that way, it actually make sense why her character seems to stand out so much in the first movie, besides her just being, "the pretty one", especially in comparison to the goofy designs of every other character in the series.

For me personally, I have mixed feelings about this trope. If it's done poorly, it's done REALLY poorly and comes across as some incel fantasy - but if it's done well (unpopular opinion in 3...2...), then I think it can actually be really cute! I can't actually judge Johnny and Mavis's relationship, since I haven't watched the Hotel Transylvania movies, but that's just my personal hot take.

Imagine if the sunrise scene went like this: Johnny and Mavis are spending time together and he’s sharing all of his grand world-travel adventures. She’s a bit bored and offers to show him something bold and dangerous! He agrees, getting excited at the thought of exploring more of the hotel when all of a sudden she takes him to the roof. He’s confused but she tells him to wait excitedly. Then the sun begins to rise and she’s giddy, expressing how exciting it is to get this close to the outside world. Johnny says “It’s just a sunrise?” to which she replies “I know right!? Isn’t this exciting!” He stops and thinks for a moment, realizing that some of the greatest adventures happen in the smallest moments. “Yeah, it is.” And then he cautiously puts his arm around her. She responds with putting her head on his shoulder. They sit there like that for a while, solidifying to the audience their blooming relationship.

I think the main issue with Johnny is that he’s never given a character arc. Like, okay, everybody likes him, maybe he’s just charismatic, some people are just naturally good with people like that, but maybe show him being cocky and overconfident about it, perhaps Mavis doesn’t like that and finds him arrogant; now there is a conflict. The movie could have used that character trait to reveal some hidden insecurities for Johnny to have to face, humbling him, allowing him to gradually open up some vulnerabilities and self-reflection, learning to not coast through life and rely on a facade to gain the approval of others and put forth genuine effort to get to know Mavis and develop a deeper connection as he continues to grow as a person. If Johnny had this kind of character development, he could still be the relatable “Everyman” that the filmmakers want him to be, while also having a more fleshed out personality. It wouldn’t be the biggest change, but it would make him even more relatable, while also giving some added weight to the relationship dynamic between him and Mavis. I do love this movie, but Johnny, as he is written, is a pretty one-dimensional character.

I hate johnny with a passion. What drives me even more insane is that they keep pairing these hundreds of year old creatures with dumb human beings. This would have been awesome to explore monsters who didn't live in the hotel. Mavis discovery the world and having an actual relationship with someone other than a man child.

The thing is I can understand why she fell for Johnny in the first movie. He was more than just the every goofy man. He was interested in the world and very social with a friendly demeanor. Hell we literally see him use his knowledge of the world that he not only likes to see but learn about when drac showed his wife to him. Johnny wasn’t a dumb weirdo, he was smart and extroverted but it was so heavily underutilized. They focused more on his quirks than his pretty great traits, in the second movie it could have been about Johnny taking mavis to see the world and showing off his knowledge maybe make it him trying to juggle his tendencies to not be able to stay in one place for long and give attention to mavis on the trip. It could’ve been a great way to show how smart about the world Johnny actually is, they kept him as a doofus instead of the great parts of him we saw in the first movie. It annoyed the hell out of me.

Men grow up believing that they don’t need to do anything to win the heart of the perfect woman. Women grow up believing that they need to be the perfect woman in order to deserve love

10:20 I'm going to disagree that Milo Thatch is an "Everyman". Being the Cartographer and Linguist with a passion for researching dead Languages, Ancient Civilizations, and Classical History, it gives him his own unique character. He's less of an "Audience Insert" and more of an "Idealized Hero"; he's smart, and despite how Physically Weak he is, he still actively involves himself in the Action (and manages to best people physically stronger than him with quick thinking). I don't think we were ever supposed to think we were Milo Thatch, but we were most certainly supposed to empathize with him and admire him. (Also, can we acknowledge that Milo Thatch is just Daniel Jackson from Stargate SG-1 ripped Wholesale).

Imagine if Johnny was replaced with a Simon Belmont type dude who came to the hotel to kill Dracula, that would be kinda cool seeing him and Dracula start off trying to kill eachother, then try to tolerate eachother for mavis’ sake

Second movie should've been about Mavis going on a fun monster road trip

Personally, I picture an everyman character in my stories as a guy who comes off as a bit immature and goofy, but he has moments where he is smart, knows how to take care of himself and those he cares for and will stand out from his immature persona and be the responsible man that he can be, pretty much "he'll be there when you're in trouble. He'll give you the shirt off his back. He knows how to take care of me" He only wants to be goofy to humor himself and those around him to make himself and others happy. But overall, there's more to him than you would first assume. I feel like it should be done with "he may be a nut, but he's the good kind of nut". Responsible, able to care for himself, will stand up for himself and his friends and family but is not afraid to have fun too. I love these movies but I wish Johnny followed this persona. He really doesn't add much to the story other than just being goofy and not really showing any ounce of responsibility. I mean, Mavis acts more of the parent for both their son and him. He never really stepped up as a father. I'd have liked from a comment here that he was a hardcore horror nerd and is smart, funny but sometimes awkward. He could have been an amazing character and as the story progresses, he becomes a mediator for Mavis and Dracula in order to improve their relationship as well as with Dracula's father/Mavis' grandfather. Instead, we got a guy who doesn't develop further than just being a typical idiot. I know this movie is for kids but we have so many everyman characters who developed from that and it ended up being amazing. Still love these movies. But I wholeheartedly agree with this review.

Wait, how is Atlantis the Lost Empire an everyman story? Milo has a dozen phds, can speak ten different languages, can decipher totally alien languages if he's familiar with its entomology, and can read millennia old maps. He's the awkward super genius trope.

The problem really is how he didn't evolved. Like holy shit, they could had made him evolved

it always felt so off, sure they could have a kid and get married eventually but they're both young, mavis by vampire standards. Mavis doesn't even know who she is yet, she was sheltered all her life and besides the series they made later it was shown and suggested that her only socialization was when everyone gathered for her bday and whatever other guests came. so she's literally never really spoke to anyone let alone someone kinda her age. johnny himself was on what i assume was a self discovery trip, neither really knew the other or themselves. Mavis went from being a sheltered kid who of course latched on to the first sign of the outside world which happened to be johnny. the feelings at the start was more mavis fascinated by this guy who was living life and from the outside and johnny digging this vampire chic. nothing more, they should have stared as friends and explored the world. where they find themselves and after awhile get together and marry or not at all. platonic soulmates should be a bigger thing, just because they don't date or marry doesn't mean they aren't amazing friends or meant to be together just not date. even having them date would have been good if they realized after a few that they don't even know themselves let alone each other and separate. instead exploring as a team.

Could make Johnny someone who suffers from Depression and ended up at Hotel Transylvania, in part by coincidence, in part because he wanted to get lost in some forrest in Central-East Europe (Romania) and die. He came to die. And Dracula as much as he hates humans, he does sympathize with Johnny because he feels that is too much sadness for even him to not feel bad about. The reason why he is upset is because of the tension back home between his Mom and Dad getting divorced and how the world is getting uglier due to climate change and politics. His Dad is a conservative and his mom is a progressive, something like that. And his world is tearing apart, so he went adventuring to escape that problem. But everywhere he goes, he sees the same issues or they appear similarly even if they are about different things. People are always dividing over petty issues and Dracula feels it may be because monsters have been so absent in the lives of humans that they have to find something else to hate about. So again more layers to how not only Johnny and Mavis getting together, but also how Johnny and Dracula become that father-son relationship neither of them had. Johnny had a Dad, but he is that quiet conservative type that rather just be left alone. Doesn't communicate feelings well and just enjoys the outdoors and his business opportunites. His mother on the other hand enjoys socializing, but also wants the world to be greener and healthier (because also enjoys the outdoors but does so more actively than the Dad). So he doesn't keep Johnny around for Mavis's sake. He keeps him around for Johnny's sake. In part, because he does feel bad for him. Wanting to end yourself is something even he went through when his wife died. So he can relate. So Johnny isn't really the average type of guy. He is just a very depressed, almost emo, except he doesn't dress like it type of guy. While Mavis is the happy-go-lucky type of Goth girl. She wants to explore. She always has this sunshine about her even though she dresses completely in the opposite manner. Johnny dresses like a typical Australian (which is what he should had been), but he has the personality of Emos. So their chemistry works out that she makes him feel better about himself and he offers her opportunity that she otherwise wouldn't have. She gives him purpose, he gives her the world because he has been everywhere while she hasn't. You can also make him a bit of a goofball when he is really having fun, but you need him to always fall back into place so he doesn't change so much as to not balance out Mavis's cheerfulness.

I firmly believe that media that promotes this kind of trope is a massive part in why incel culture exists. Boys grow up watching average men being fawned over by women and this teaches them to expect women to fall for them and treat them like they're the world. They come to feel that just by existing, they are entitled to this treatment, but once they are faced with real life women and not the characters they grew up watching and their expectations aren't fulfilled, they become bitter and hateful. This cycle is so toxic to everyone involved and it has always weirded me out how shows and movies feed into it

I think Johnny is the poster boy for why having “relatable” be the start and end of their personality is a bad thing. because if you can’t relate to them (which I don’t) then there’s literally nothing to like about them. you can have a character be relatable, but you have to give them a personality or a hobby or something to grab onto. and this is a love story, so having a likable lead is kind of important in this genre lmao

I felt a sense of sadness when Mavis and Johnny searched for a new home and Mavis was eager to engage in various activities but only to get reminded of her roles as a mother and wife which limited her ability to explore personal interests. It seemed like Dracula should’ve allowed her the chance to discover herself when society accepted monsters, rather than hastily arranging her marriage. Also, The concept of "zing" loses its significance, as Dracula himself zinged with an old lady later on so there’s no excuse for her in not being able to find somebody else. There was a lot of potential in this story but instead the creators chose to create the easy, boring cliché path.

These just sound like the bitter words of a guy who has trouble scoring, while the Johnny's of the world score just by being themselves. I don't claim to understand it but it happens all the time. It also reeks of "why can't she like what I expect her to like".

The "EveryMan" trope can't function without the "Born Sexy Yesterday" trope, of gals like Mavis who only like him because she doesn't know better

Yeah there has been a huge change in Johnny’s personality since the first film. Unpopular opinion, but I was ok with Johnny’s character in the first film, saw nothing wrong with it. But as soon as hotel Transylvania 2 came out it all started to go down hill. He completely lost his previous personality as the fun free spirited guy, and gained the personality of just… stupid, and even more annoying. At least he could be a LITTLE more serious in the first film, but now whenever he shows negative emotions it’s really hard to buy. He seems less of a person, less human.

What makes me feel sorry for this couple is that it feels like they have the ingredients to work: they are both extroverted, cheerful, friendly and have an interest in travel and seeing new things. It would have worked perfectly as a dynamic of friends who come to like each other because of all their common interests But this movie is not about them, it's about Dracula's traumas, so these two have to fall in love because otherwise there is no conflict

Thank you for this video it is so unbelievable that certain low tier men get the best women in fiction it is ridiculous and, it gives the average man false hope and it's not okay.

I felt like Johnny and Mavis would’ve worked if the 2nd film helped change Johnnys personality. It would’ve been kinda funny to see Johnny turn into a more mature father figure for his son, and actually get mad at Drac for trying to force Dennis to be a vampire. I mean Drac not fully excepting Johnny has been a plot point in all of them major or minor. The Second film could’ve actually had Mavis and Johnny wanting to move away since Drac couldn’t except Johnny’s humanity and the possibility of Dennis being a human too.

The only everyman I really like is Emmet from Lego Movie, because they play into the fact he's the everyman. They stick a regular guy next to Master Builders. But the Everyman Trope worked with The Lego Movie because a big theme in Lego Movie was that anyone can be special. You don't have to have special powers or even be part of some prophecy (as we find out Vitruvius made up the prophecy) to do great things and be important. Also, Emmet is fun, even while being an everyman. And the reason he gets with Lucy/Wyldestyle is because they _do_ have chemistry.

I now she is like, in the "legal age" but the fact that she 118, 1_18_ and she wanted to see the world, and end up having a baby with the red hair dude so quick is just off to me Edit: it's like, she never leaved the hotel, meets the dude who gives pothead vibes tbh, specially in the vacation movie, have a child and that's all her life now lol, sad

It really is exhausting to constantly see women settling for a "funny, yet neglectful" man. Marge Simpson is one of the first characters that comes to mind. Like most women in this trope, she is the mother of her husband who neglects and ignores her and their family, as well as having to mother her children at the same time. It teaches women that they should settle for men for their personalities and humor instead of looking for... any other redeeming and sufficient quality in a human. I think it also teaches men that they dont need to grow up or show respect to others because they can get a wife and children without doing anything above the absolute bare minimum. I think it creates a lot of unhealthy marriages and relationships- especially since its marketed to such young and impressionable kids and teens...

what always pissed me off is how both Marvis and Johnny stay the same in sequels. They are married adults for crying out loud. You can make some point for Marvis because she's a vampire but it would be nice if they looked slightly more mature as the story moved on (yes, young married couples don't suddenly change overnight I know but the time still pases)

Its always been disgusting to me when a story has a female character fall in love with the first guy she meets after being sheltered her entire life. Its essentially giving the message that naivety can and should be taken advantage of. She falls in love with him, simply because she has nothing else to compare him to. Her standards are ridiculously low, so anything will work. The male love interest could be abusive or manipulative, but because he was the "first guy to watch a sunset with her," hes special. And its only becoming more of an issue in modern media, because no one seems to understand how relationships work. In reality, the cute shut-in girl feels aimless and empty inside because she gave herself up to someone who never earned it. Mavis only stays married to Johnny because she never meets anyone else. She could've met a more passionate and sensible man just by walking down the street

If you’re angry at “Goofiness”, LITTERALY EVERYONE IN THIS FILM IS A GOOFY CHILD TRAPPED IN AN ADULT BODY! that’s THE ONLY reason he gets along with the monsters.

I’m subscribing with the promise you’ll destroy the Everyman trope in anime. Keep up the good work!

Milo is not an Every Man. He's a linguist/cartography expert, dangit!

You know I can’t remember if this is true or what, but I remember once hearing about how Johnny was originally going to be a vampire Hunter coming to the hotel and then falling in love with Mavis. Is it the most original idea in the world? No, but it’s more interesting as it makes what Drac is so worried about a bit true and does gives that change of world view type of development(which while the third movie was basically just a summer movie done for money, I did like the chemistry between Drac and Ericka which is this idea explored kinda). Either way thank goodness there’s always better couples with better chemistry in other shows/movies.

I know that jhony's character is not well written, and needed more development throughout the series (which bugs me even now that they didn't do anything about it) but the main point is jhony has more positive parameters than negative and he is a good match for mavis. First of all, he is kind of person that can handle the monsters and even makes their lives more enjoyable. He did a lot of changes in hotel that was intended to make the other's lives more happy and enjoyable, and like drac says in the last movie, his life changed after jhony came to his life. The writers created a good human character that can live with monsters and helps them out in many ways, but I accept the fact that they could make a lot of development in his character, specially when he became a father. I think he and mavis make a good pair which they did in the movie, buy it could be in a better story

One of the main things I hate about this trope is that it reinforces the "'nice guy' can get out of the friend zone and get the girl (who would otherwise have zero chemistry with him) just by doing x, y, and/or z" school of thought . Girls end up being expected to feel guilty about just wanting to be friends with such a guy, and are often made out to be the "dating--and only being attracted to--the wrong type of guy" kind of girl with the implication that she would be better of with the "nice guy" (as if there aren't other options in the world who can be someone she's attracted to who will treat her right because they love her not because they want to win her over by being a "doormat" or just otherwise overly accommodating with hopes of winning her over with the thought process being "let me mold myself into what I think she needs/wants because that'll somehow make her attracted to me intimately/sexually at some point in the future when she 'comes to her senses' or 'realizes how much I go out of my way for her'"). She should not be obligated to offer herself as a trophy for someone who decided for themselves to pursue her in such a way. As a girl who has had to deal with guys like this my whole life, this sort of thing instills entitlement in the guys prone to this way of thinking, and it's even worse that many children's entertainment media feature this trope, which, again, reinforces to impressionable (and particularly obsessive) minds that she will/should come around. Now, this absolutely goes for any/all genders involved in such situations. I'm not a feminist, and I never will be because egalitarianism is the only way to create true equality--that is a hill I am willing to die on (to illustrate, Emma Watson's "He for She" campaign was an attempt to use egalitarianism as a means to promote that "feminism is for both men and women" when in all actuality it is etymologically, historically, and by definition solely for the benefit of females in instances where they are particularly oppressed in a society); therefore, I recognize that this trope is not just a male v. female problem--it's an obsessed v. obsession problem, and it needs to stop being catered to. A lot of it is essentially love bombing, which, in most cases, is a façade that in real life almost always comes crumbling down when they either get fed up with being rejected (which often leads to people getting killed--look up Stephen McDaniel as an example of this) or finally reach their goal--I mean, "win over their love interest". It does more harm than good, and it's particularly triggering for people like me who have been through instances like this on the receiving end.