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Is Prusa's Input Shaping actually Good now? 

Made with Layers (Thomas Sanladerer)
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The Prusa Mini now also comes with a preview Input Shaping firmware - time to test it, and the final IS version on the MK4!
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Low Poly Howling Wolf 2.0 (Decoration)(No Supports!) FIXED by Brett Poultney www.printables...
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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 348   
@cocon16_PW
@cocon16_PW 11 месяцев назад
It's kinda mindblowing what we nowadays consider a print of unacceptable quality, which few years ago was just straight up amazing quality. To get a print looking alright close up was impossible to get without hours of sanding and painting.
@actualreplyguy
@actualreplyguy 9 месяцев назад
Right? I know that the pursuit of perfection is a thing, but even a short 5 years ago to get a decent-looking print in less than 10 hours and (after spending hours fiddling with settings) would have been a grail. Nowadays printers out all sorts of amazing things requiring very little work. So, logically, we complain it's not quite good yet :)
@GameDawgs
@GameDawgs 9 месяцев назад
I'm regularly blown away by the quality of prints some of my friends get. Like, I'll be thinking I have my printer set up to perfection, and these folks don't even know they showed me up. 😂
@Loot_OW
@Loot_OW 8 месяцев назад
to be completely fair, a short 5 years is still 5 years of innovation from a few very good companies and a very dedicated community. its insane what voron guys can do these days with a literal kit printer and their own tweaks. @@actualreplyguy
@Loot_OW
@Loot_OW 8 месяцев назад
to be completely fair, a short 5 years is still 5 years of innovation from a few very good companies and a very dedicated community. its insane what voron guys can do these days with a literal kit printer and their own tweaks. @@actualreplyguy
@DisgruntledPigumon
@DisgruntledPigumon 7 месяцев назад
This is why I finally jumped into FDM coming from resin. The giant colorful stuff that comes off of FDM these days is beautiful.
@jasongram1287
@jasongram1287 11 месяцев назад
Tom: "Someone messed with my printer. In a completely unrelated note, these taped knuckles are from a bike accident."
@catalyst9259
@catalyst9259 4 месяца назад
hahhahahaha
@fabianmuhlberger6153
@fabianmuhlberger6153 11 месяцев назад
Hey, TY for making such a comprehensive video! I would like to add that "quality" does not nessearly mean bad or good. I am running a MINI with the IS firmware, and for me, the quality is is just fine. The reduced print-time is way more important to me, than the finish. To be honest, I only noticed it once so far. The surface finish is not great, but since I only print functional parts, looks is not in my requirements. The dimentional tolerances are good and I had no failed prints so far. Thats all I care about!
@MihaiDesigns
@MihaiDesigns 11 месяцев назад
Awesome study as always! Glad to hear the new MK4 firmware combined with the slicer updates prints better. This gives me courage to try the MK4 again.
@alexandredevert4935
@alexandredevert4935 11 месяцев назад
Fast printing allows to have faster CAD/print/test iterations, an absolute win if you do mechanical parts, jigs, etc.
@Pcoakaloid
@Pcoakaloid 11 месяцев назад
Ive been using the IS firmware on the mini for a couple weeks now and im quite happy with it. Prints that used to take 10 hrs now take 6. I normally print functional mechanical bits and bobs and havent seen much discernable difference in quality. Interesting to see the comparisons youve made though. Thanks for the video.
@rasmuslauritsen3395
@rasmuslauritsen3395 11 месяцев назад
I installed the IS fw on my Mini, and I agree that the print quality suffered a bit, but I mostly use my Mini for functional parts where perfect print quality isn't required and II love the extra speed. I use my Mini a lot more than my MK3s+ at the moment.
@LuisJimenez-br1nl
@LuisJimenez-br1nl 11 месяцев назад
Same here
@RyanVasquez6089
@RyanVasquez6089 11 месяцев назад
Sooooo fast 😭🤣🤘
@cp001cp001
@cp001cp001 11 месяцев назад
Same here. We print PETG on our Mini+'s, and they do a great job, but now at 2 x the speed. It also helps that PETG isn't pretty to begin with, so aesthetic expectations were not high. Sometimes 'good enough' is all you need...
@belladonnaRoot
@belladonnaRoot 11 месяцев назад
It's really a testament to Prusa that their old printers are still good printers. My mk2 is still working. Sure, it's got the extruder and heatbed of a mk3, and has had the belts and half the moving cables replaced, but it's good enough that I hesitated to jump to the mk4. And I was wondering if the bandages were bike injuries. Both hands at once, light bandages...I hope your face gets better too; swift healing, and thank goodness there's no worse injuries.
@Teleport73
@Teleport73 11 месяцев назад
Thanks for a really detailed and informative video. After seeing your results I don't get why Prusa won't just ship the MK4 with an accelerometer and indeed offer upgrade kits with sensors for both the MK4 and Mini.
@mdbssn
@mdbssn 11 месяцев назад
Thanks for another deep dive into some printing nuances. Glad to see Prusa was able to wrangle in the new features for the Mk.4 and hope your recovery is nearing completion.
@oriyadid
@oriyadid 11 месяцев назад
Great video, I appreciate the thoroughness in testing. Hope your hands get better soon! As for 16:24, I suppose the new firmware just had a tweak that changed the results you were seeing, since not only Input Shaping changed from 4.7.2 afaik.
@ronaldwhedon3924
@ronaldwhedon3924 11 месяцев назад
Thanks for the evaluation. I may be biased, but I think prusa evaluations are generally insulated from talk about similar printers. Considering the 3D printing zeitgeist, I would love to see how the mini compares to similar sized cantilevered printers with input shaping installed. Even the ender 2 pro can have input shaping with some small edits.
@ratchetz
@ratchetz 11 месяцев назад
This was super helpful - thanks for taking the time to produce the video! I think my mini will stay as-is for now.
@zexuanqiao2441
@zexuanqiao2441 11 месяцев назад
I am so glad that Prusa is getting back to the standard it used to have. Now I still have the confidence to recommend them to others other than "if you want to support open-source or the community" but now it is as goof as usual!
@nhand42
@nhand42 11 месяцев назад
I did not expect those problems on the Mini would be from the extruder. I would have been hyper focused on the belts and axes. I learn so much from this channel and now I've learnt another useful thing. Thank you!
@BeefIngot
@BeefIngot 11 месяцев назад
The mini very famously has a really annoying filament path with its pseudo not quite all metal hotend. I'm sure >f you googled it you'd eventually find posts complaining. Thats not to say this channel isn't definitely still useful though. I do miss the more interesting projects he's done like the filament measuring thing or the multi bed Voron. I really liked projects like those.
@Foxhood
@Foxhood 5 месяцев назад
I build laboratory CNC machines that actuate at a resolution in the microns for a living and last week built myself a MK4. I wish the lab machines were half as solidly engineered as the MK4. Like i built a MK4 and nothing went wrong during construction, tuning was stupidly easy and the first set of inaugural test-prints all came out without a single little flaw with IS on. I expected some tiny little artifacts, but nope. It is perfectly fine. A BBL would have been cheaper sure, but i highly doubt it would have left me feeling like i acquired a device designed to outlast me if given the chance. I am impressed to see a company that actually delivers on promises even if later than intended.
@g3i0r
@g3i0r 11 месяцев назад
Thanks for the thorough investigation! I'll stay at the stock firmware with my Mini for now. I also have small extrusion issues, especially with top surfaces. I will try the hotend fix.
@MadeWithLayers
@MadeWithLayers 11 месяцев назад
Thank you very much!
@Jakeypoo-di6hy
@Jakeypoo-di6hy 11 месяцев назад
Last week I got Ender 3 and Chromebook . Unfortunately I am at stop sign. No TF Card on screen. Please help me .
@jameslamb4573
@jameslamb4573 11 месяцев назад
Gloves! I always wear mine when cycling, having saved my hands twice I won't stop wearing them any time soon. If you came down directly on your hands you're lucky you didn't damage a collarbone. Be safe. GLOVES!
@dalerogers1134
@dalerogers1134 10 месяцев назад
Great video! I replaced the heat break and PTFE tube on my Mini, per your video tips. Printing much better now, like new. Thank you. Also, I don’t expect my Mini to print as well as the newer and more expensive machines with better technology.
@FerTechCH
@FerTechCH 11 месяцев назад
Tom, fantastic video as usual! This video must have taken a long time to produce due to all the tests! Thank you for all the hard work! Hope you can recover fast from your bicycle accident!
@edumaker-alexgibson
@edumaker-alexgibson 11 месяцев назад
Tom, thanks very much for this in depth investigation of a question I've been asking myself. Hope you get some downtime to recover your hands fully!
@monkeywrench1951
@monkeywrench1951 11 месяцев назад
Sorry to hear about your accident. Hopefully you get better soon.
@RoccosStuff
@RoccosStuff 11 месяцев назад
Input shaping has been great on the MK4 in my experience so far
@VincentGroenewold
@VincentGroenewold 11 месяцев назад
For me it's a bit meh. I also have klipper on a Ender and there I can tweak it completely and it prints less ringing artifacts then the MK4. I hope we can change it ourselves in the future.
@rcmaniac25
@rcmaniac25 11 месяцев назад
Of course, I typed too much... Good to see you revisit this, and reminder "alpha and beta firmwares are not finished programs... use them to give feedback to the devs, not as review targets or production systems". I had my own experimentation like this. I installed the IS ALPHA on the Mini... it plasters labels that indicate it's an alpha on basically every screen. I did a small test not unlike the low poly wolf. The quality was nearly identical... but that wasn't what impressed me, what impressed me is that it didn't get louder. They managed to do a 20-40% speed increase with, for that test, no real quality changes... and it didn't get louder. Compare that to the MK4 which has rubber paddings between every bearing and mount (and is pretty quiet itself when printing at speed). I had a larger decorative print (2+ days without IS, 1.5 days with IS) and I opted to print the base (8h with IS) on the Mini before I dropped the big print on it... needless to say I went "ok, ALPHA is not ready to do the big print" because it had extrusion issues along the way and I didn't want that on the big print, which is currently printing on the MK4 instead. My expectation is that they're going to keep tweaking things on the MK4... a new firmware with features but also a slight adjustment to IS. Some extra settings in PrusaSlicer 2.6.2 and later. Etc. I did not have "Prusa Mini gets input shaping" on my bingo card, so it's impressive in and of itself since it's a lower-power 32 bit board compared to the MK4 and XL without the stepper cooling and physical parts to reenforce it. I will be curious to see future firmware on it (and the eventual final addition of power panic which has been "coming soon" since 2019 but has recently gotten actual code additions and configurations). Please keep contacting support on issues. The more they get, the more they either update their processes to include IS prints, but it gives real reason for them to do some code changes in the slicer and firmware (no really. Make a ticket on Github saying "there's ringing because I can't calibrate IS against my surface my printer is on", IF they ack. it, it just goes to a list that they may or may not get to. But if you contact support, and a trend comes up that ringing is happening, and support can't produce but you can, and they get photos and other things showing "yes, it's happening here. With proper belt tension, etc." then eventually managers review it and say "yo, fix this" and the engineers will be required to do such a thing and may eventually go "ok, we're gonna send you an accelerometer and instructions to run it. Please use it and send us the numbers back" and take those into account. It's hypothetical scenario, but people vastly underestimate contacting support for any company. If you ever read "why do they keep adding features we don't care about?! They need to listen to their customers!" yea, they listen to them via support channels... not random shoutings on Twitter and Facebook) I will have to look at that filament as it looks nice. Last on the accelerometers... , I don't see it in the current set of top comments, additional reminder that the accelerometers are used for calibration, not when the printers are running (as you seemed to discuss it). Also, I've mentioned it in Maker's Muse video (and others added onto it): there's been many "traditional" reviewers and commentors who have commented about recalibrating printers on different surfaces, but "klipper" reviewers (biggest being Nero) have commented that you don't need to and that the differences will be minimal at best on a properly tuned machine. Key words "properly tuned", such as belts. I know at least one Bambu user who swears on the recalibration fixes print quality issues when moved to new surfaces and such... but after poking them with questions, they admitted the only times they've moved the printer is when moving house, doing system repairs, etc. and that they often need to readjust the belts. So every time they had print quality issues, they adjusted belts, and then recalibrated and the issue when away... commentators on Maker's Muse video pointed out that it keeps being missed that the calibration is less to do with the surface it's on and more to do with the gantry's motion relative to the bed, so hanging it from rafters, hanging it upside down, etc. and other arrangements that will change that relative interaction, not unlike belts having more slop or backlash or stretch. I do hope they eventually either sell the accelerometers or at least indicate what senors they're using so 3rd parties can [provide them + firmware update so we can run it locally. It may not be needed, but having the option available is still useful. If anyone is wondering: the connectors Prusa uses on the MK4 and XL are Molex CLIK-Mate. So normal JST connectors won't do it.
@TROPtastic
@TROPtastic 11 месяцев назад
Once the Prusa Mini gets its finalized input shaping firmware, it would be good to compare it with the Bambu Lab A1 Mini (focusing on the base printer, not the AMS multi material system). That seems like it will be the Prusa Mini's best competition for people who want a cheap printer that just works.
@AevnsGrandpa
@AevnsGrandpa 11 месяцев назад
Sorry to hear about your biking boo boo!! Had those myself. Thanks for such a comprehensive review and analysis.
@avejst
@avejst 11 месяцев назад
Impressive amount of prints. Wow. Great video as always 👍 Hope you are up and using your Bike again soon. Thanks for sharing your experience with All of us 👍😀
@xzombieslasherx
@xzombieslasherx 11 месяцев назад
I've been running the input shaper with my mini for a week now and have seen a massive drop in printing time. I did two prints one before and one after the update and the quality was actual slightly better and printed about 30 minutes faster. I've been printing minis for about a week now and all of them have came out really good for the most part (at least for a FDM printer printing minis). My mini is still running the first alpha release firmware.
@Sebazzz1991
@Sebazzz1991 11 месяцев назад
The v5.0 firmware for the Mk4 has many known issues, including some blocking ones like not being able to home on Z. For the affected users rolling back to v4.x firmware works fine.
@DennisVris
@DennisVris 11 месяцев назад
Hey Thomas, you've always been one of my favorite 3D printing channels. I've been running a 3D print farm for a few years. Even after I sold my printers, I still watch your videos every now and then. HOWEVER You shouldn't try to compare one printer to another while using different filaments. You know this.
@bzqp2
@bzqp2 11 месяцев назад
I'm totally not seeing the bad results on the old, gray parts in the video. I'm not sure how they look like in person but are you sure it's not just subsurface light scattering that is making the lines look blurry?
@teitgenengineering
@teitgenengineering 11 месяцев назад
I feel like prusa just needs to make a speed corexy enclosed printer that isn't huge
@MetalheadAndNerd
@MetalheadAndNerd 11 месяцев назад
Yes, please more tiny printers. We all know that tabletop figurines are the only thing 3D printing is useful for.
@teitgenengineering
@teitgenengineering 11 месяцев назад
​@@MetalheadAndNerd um I didn't say tinny I said not huge
@toddkerns4493
@toddkerns4493 11 месяцев назад
Me too! I’d love to have that for printing polycarbonate.
@teitgenengineering
@teitgenengineering 11 месяцев назад
​@@toddkerns4493 and nylon and abs there's so many plastics that print so much better with a heated chamber
@andreas.grundler
@andreas.grundler 11 месяцев назад
They have enough parts and 3D printers at Prusa to build a Voron 0.2 in Prusa colors and with Prusa logo but I don't think they will sell it to you. 😁 I don't know if a small core XY printer would be such a good idea for Pusa. They have the most experience with Cartesian motion system printers or also called bedslingers. I think they need to gain experience with the Prusa XL before they go further in that direction.
@ivolol
@ivolol 11 месяцев назад
Given the vertical integration that Prusa has and time period the mk4 came out, it's actually now baffling to me they didn't add any accelerometer on the print head. Can't see a reason why it wouldn't only add like $2 to the BOM cost.
@TheBoojah
@TheBoojah 11 месяцев назад
You'd need another one on the bed too, so a lot of inputs to the main board. Only need one on core xy. But yeah, would be good to have on board tuning capabilities.
@herr_rossi69
@herr_rossi69 11 месяцев назад
This does not matter at all. First you measure X, then you measure Y with the same acerlorometer.
@Unscientifically
@Unscientifically 11 месяцев назад
the mk4 board actually has ports for a accelerometer. I think they figured that since every mk4 or mini is exactly the same, input shaping results or data on one printer will be the same on another. Its easier than a novice person trying to figure out a accelerometer
@therick0996
@therick0996 11 месяцев назад
right? include 1 on the toolhead and 1 on the bed (wires are already running to both), and have it calculate either once, or for every print, based on some setting
@Dave_the_Dave
@Dave_the_Dave 11 месяцев назад
The mass on the bed will still change throughout the print, so while you can measure the actual resonances on X, they will change on Y throughout the print. Those adjustments will have to be pre calculated still. Although it seems like they have gotten it close enough on the MK4.
@TKs3DPrints
@TKs3DPrints 11 месяцев назад
ouch hope your hands heal soon. yes nothing worse than meeting a bike path the hard way.. done a few of them down mountains. get better soon. and another great video.
@MinnesotaHomesteading
@MinnesotaHomesteading 11 месяцев назад
I have to disagree on the mini. Granted my mini has a Revo hotend and Bondtech extruder, but my print quality increased to amazing with the input shaping alpha fw
@anbu94
@anbu94 8 месяцев назад
I got a MK4 at work and put it in the Prusa enclosure. The enclosure has a sheet metal bottom that is only supported by feet at the 4 corners so it's like the printer is on a metal trampoline. This definitely isn't taken into consideration with the input shaper. I ended up taking a 1 inch thick piece of scrap sound attenuation foam from our assembly department and setting the enclosure on that. now the floor is supported and the ringing has been reduced but still not like it was before putting in the enclosure.
@andy_warb
@andy_warb 11 месяцев назад
I used to get all sorts of inconsistencies with my Prusa Mini+ and then I swapped the hottend for a Revo and the extruder for the Bondtech and now my Mini produces perfect, consistent prints time and time again. I can't fault it.
@JulioBarg
@JulioBarg 11 месяцев назад
Excellent channel, very good information and analysis. I am from Argentina, unfortunately the recurring crises make it very difficult to have a fleet of printers updated, in the case of our only mini (original, but with a mod on the extruder and barrel) the alpha version with input shappe practically revived it, the speeds and The quality is excellent and the difference with the impressions you got is quite obvious. Do you think there may be other inconsistencies that cause the artifacts seen in the prints of the mini with the alpha version?
@LAKEKING360
@LAKEKING360 11 месяцев назад
I’ve found if you reset the mini hot end first by pushing it all the way up to hit a stop then snug down the top brass fitting it gets a better squeeze on the ptfe tube then just pushing it up by hand.
@walking_disaster_
@walking_disaster_ 11 месяцев назад
It appears that input shaping is always active on the MK4 starting with FW 5.0.0. When I compared gcode sliced with both IS and non-IS profiles, I couldn’t find any indication that the IS profiles actually enable input shaping. Similarly, I found no evidence that the non-IS profiles disable input shaping. That being said, it seems input shaping is both enabled and configured solely at the firmware level. The slicer does not generate any gcode related to input shaping. The “non-IS” profiles are really more like “quality” profiles. They still provide the benefits of input shaping without also pushing the printer to its limits like with the IS profiles.
@nimr0d85
@nimr0d85 11 месяцев назад
Gute Besserung!
@botcherbutcher7608
@botcherbutcher7608 11 месяцев назад
Hope your scratches and all that have healed by now. Awesome video and deep dive olimto the performances. And as always " 'tis just a flesh wound"
@malexander6367
@malexander6367 11 месяцев назад
This video makes me think that some printers need a second review a year or two after release. It would be interesting to compare how printers from different manufacturers improve over time.
@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass
@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass 11 месяцев назад
We can't just start accepting this kind of behavior from companies. We even have iPhones coming out now with features announced that don't even exist yet. We are we buying *promises* instead of products? Vote with your dollars. only buy COMPLETED productsw
@malexander6367
@malexander6367 11 месяцев назад
@@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass That is one point. On the other hand : Regular Updates can also improve performance in ways that are not advertised as features for the initial production runs. For example, they can improve print quality by tuning parameters and adding features that are not advertised but just generally useful. The Prusa Mini has just gotten input shaper and as far as I know, nobody was even considering that to be a thing for that printer back when it was released.
@malexander6367
@malexander6367 11 месяцев назад
@@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass In my perfect world, Products would be released in a "completed" state and still improve over their lifetime.
@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass
@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass 11 месяцев назад
@@malexander6367 That's literally how it has been forever. I find it insulting that we are all accepting the fact that incomplete products are being shipped without features that were promised when it was announced. If the product isn't ready do not release it... It's pretty simple Stop accepting this as the new normal
@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass
@TGMisKillingTheMiddleClass 11 месяцев назад
@@malexander6367 absolutely and that's an entire different story. Getting new features that weren't announced at release is amazing. Not getting features that you were promised at the announcement is not amazing
@paulhamacher773
@paulhamacher773 11 месяцев назад
I really love yor attention to detail, Tom!
@stevenmcculloch5727
@stevenmcculloch5727 11 месяцев назад
Nice video and I love the panning timelapse in the beginning. I didn't click on this video to watch the mini maintenance and firmware flashing process, more interested in the experiment and results. So maybe those extra details would be better for a separate video. Just my two cents hope it's helpful
@woodturner1954
@woodturner1954 11 месяцев назад
Upgrading my MK3S to MK4 so this is good to know. Also, as for bikes, helmet and 'gloves' have saved my skin several times.
@roedyhellyeah
@roedyhellyeah 11 месяцев назад
Just a note: the volume is really low compared to other videos on RU-vid
@herr_rossi69
@herr_rossi69 11 месяцев назад
Hi Thomas, what I would really be interested in how the accerolometer is noticeable in reality. I don't think it makes much difference in terms of frequency. There is a test print at Klipper where the echoes are measured and the frequency is calculated. Marlin uses the same test print but does it differently. The print starts with 15hz input shaper and changes up to 60hz at the end of the test. So you can see very well the effect of the input shaper. And there you can see that it is not as extremely sensitive as many believe. There are other factors that play a role in the measurement at Klipper. Which input shaper, maximum acceleration or damping. But if these values are determined by an experienced team and it is ultimately only about the frequency, I do not necessarily see the need for a sensor. A video from you on this topic would be very interesting. It could be investigated what really affects the practice. Otherwise, I liked this video very much. Also please be critical when it is necessary.
@Etrehumain123
@Etrehumain123 11 месяцев назад
Thank you so much, because you could have just said shit to Prusa and never talked about it again, and I see you took good time to do all the tests. I learnt a lot, I will rethink of those test next time I get a new printer
@dovkruman5195
@dovkruman5195 8 месяцев назад
VERY THOROUGH PRESENTATION. ARE THERE ANY VIDEOS ABOUT THE MMU3 UPGRADE ??
@jakubhorky9782
@jakubhorky9782 11 месяцев назад
Hi, I work for a small printer farm and we ordered like 10 preassembled minis from prusa. We had a horrible time with them. Most of them had the wrongly installed ptfe tube FROM PRUSA directly so it might not have been the person you got it from. (Half of the minis also had faulty pinda probes so it was bad bad)
@terpcj
@terpcj 11 месяцев назад
I was looking forward to giving this a try on my Mini when it was announced. Unfortunately, I ended up with a boot loop when trying to print and a few hours of frustration as I tried downgrading to the stable release firmware, which finally succeeded. So, I'll wait until the official release before I try it again.
@StormBurnX
@StormBurnX 11 месяцев назад
This whole saga, between things like the mk4's laggy screen clearly being a cost-cutting measure, input shaping essentially being useless until they tweaked the slicer behind the scenes again, asking for your review unit back as a delay tactic since it clearly was not your unit causing the issue, etc etc, it all feels like the kind of "getting going" troubles I would expect to see from a small handful team making their first printer ever at an extreme budget value. Not from a company that's been running for 12 years and selling you a $1200 printer with a laggy screen. Truly baffling what's happened at the company over the past few years
@BeefIngot
@BeefIngot 11 месяцев назад
What bugs me more is that they seem to want to blame everyone but themselves. So much crap slinging on twitter at the company that simply outperformed them and forced them to wake up. Its all a very bad look when they should just be heads down in the lab innovating and making things ready.
@StormBurnX
@StormBurnX 11 месяцев назад
​@@BeefIngot Honestly I haven't followed the 3D printing world on twitter because of the insane amount of drama, scams, and just overall lack of professionalism. But even aside from that, every time Tom uploads a new Prusa video, I'm hopeful that it's finally the one that says, Prusa are on track to being a better company worth investing thousands of dollars in, when competitors are often offering the same or better hardware/features/etc for a third of the price. And, every time, it... seems like they might be getting closer, but it's far from definitive yet.
@DumahBrazorf
@DumahBrazorf 11 месяцев назад
We know Tom, we know. First rule of the Fight Club: you do not talk about the Fight Club.
@logicalfundy
@logicalfundy 11 месяцев назад
I've been using the IS profiles exclusively - but seeing how perfect the non-IS profiles are, I might add them back.
@g.4279
@g.4279 11 месяцев назад
I really like my MK3, but Prusa printers have been dinosaurs for a while now. No accelerometer is a big loss too.
@thomasking9524
@thomasking9524 11 месяцев назад
My Prusa hasnt needed a single mod or maintence in 4000 hours. I guarantee I will wake up to a perfect print. Pretty good for a dinosaur.
@g.4279
@g.4279 11 месяцев назад
@@thomasking9524 Yea, and you could do the same with a Bambu Lab printer but probably only need 1500 hours because of their speed.
@icemanbldr
@icemanbldr 11 месяцев назад
my mk4 (kit) printer is much better than my mk3s. I'm not a perfectionist but the mk4 so far has met my needs. I do appreciate your analysis... I had not thought about the issue of print weight on a moveable bed before your video! Thanks for your reviews.
@DisgruntledPigumon
@DisgruntledPigumon 7 месяцев назад
Weird. I’ve watched your channel for years just because it’s interesting and I’ve been interest in 3D print for decades… but I’ve always printed in resin. I just realized, I have an FDM now and your videos directly affect me. 😂 after all this time.
@Pyriscent
@Pyriscent 10 месяцев назад
So no more PTFE tube hotends then. I agree. Printers without accelerometers are officially outdated thanks to Bambu but this just released. Bed slingers are also outdated due to the weight issue.
@KiterTMK
@KiterTMK 10 месяцев назад
Besides that being a Static Input Shaper (SIS), over Bambulabs Dynamic Input Shaper (DIS). Try to print tall narrow but heavy models. If the bed acceleration is too quick, it may dislodge the model from the bed from the leverage the weight exerts over the length and small footprint. And I say, MAY. So besides the fact that they can still create upgrade kits from SIS to DIS, the bedslinger construction will remain an issue at certain model sizes. The bedslinger design wasn't an issue at lower speeds, but will increasingly become problematic at higher speeds. Thus the MK5 can't be a bedslinger anymore if they want to do it right, it should become a CoreXY.
@herr_rossi69
@herr_rossi69 9 месяцев назад
The MK5 can only be a bed slinger. Because it is simply the fifth development stage of this model. When Prusa brings out a Corexy, it will be a new model. But as long as you have to wait weeks for an MK4, they are doing a lot right. And Input shaper also seems to work very well statically. Why make it unnecessarily complicated? Besides, Bambulab is now bringing a "never again Bedslinger" in MK4 size. Is everything prusa does so wrong? Apart from that, I don't like being lied to so stupidly. Prusa will never be able to keep up with the price. And everyone knows why.
@TonyBullard
@TonyBullard 11 месяцев назад
Re: wrapped hands - You should have said you were just being a mummy and this was your Halloween episode.
@dkmooninite
@dkmooninite 6 месяцев назад
Did you do an Input Shaping resonant frequency test on the mini and set the values? If the machine does not have an accelerometer I'm not sure how else you could address IS issues.
@phinok.m.628
@phinok.m.628 3 месяца назад
I would really like to see a comparison between input shaping and no input shaping at the exact same speed etc. Because I honestly don't feel like Prusa's input shaping does anything, apart from turning the speed up. And given that the resonance frequency of the Y axis on a bed slinger changes as you print and the MK4 has no way of measuring the resonance frequency, I honestly have no idea how they think they can input shape the Y axis in any useful way in the first place. 🤷‍♂
@maxhammick948
@maxhammick948 11 месяцев назад
I'm fine with alpha firmware not being fully tweaked, and just good enough for bug testing. There's still beta and rc versions to go before it's anywhere near "final".
@arklanuthoslin
@arklanuthoslin 11 месяцев назад
interesting. I use a mini, and my quality didn't change, to my eyes. Though I do have the bond tech extruder. But, still - had no issues like yours with the alpha firmware.
@gcerchio
@gcerchio 11 месяцев назад
Hey Thom, next time you go over the handle bars, remember to tuck, not stretch, you'll wind up on your feet without a scratch!
@Zden215
@Zden215 8 месяцев назад
After this video I’m just sadly watching low poly wolf which I printed on my Ender 3 xD Prusa’s print quality is just astonishing
@zwurltech9047
@zwurltech9047 11 месяцев назад
I've been struggling with the print quality of my Mini since day one. A lot of stringing, even with PLA, and bad quality over all. Because I am not willing to fix the QC issues by myself, I tried to sell the machine. But € 220.- was the highest offer on the selling-platform I can get so far. And my MK3S+ does not sell for € 400.- That's not a good sign for Prusa...
@808GT
@808GT 11 месяцев назад
In fairness, 3d printers second hand now are pretty much unsellable. Im trying to get rid of my super modded Enders and people dont bother unless its aorund 100 Euros.
@francootaola9172
@francootaola9172 11 месяцев назад
Wait... Up to what I know structural profile is the profile for machines with input shaper firmware but that it DOES NOT use input shaper. It is like print it with turn off vr. And the speed is the one with input shaper on.
@zerofox3d
@zerofox3d 11 месяцев назад
Sorry to hear you took a spill dude. Should have said you'd started "3D Printing RU-vidr Fight Club" and that UncleJessy guy fights dirty!
@ImolaS3
@ImolaS3 4 месяца назад
So, how did it compare to the Mk3s? It was mentioned at the start, then forgotten and as an owner of two mk3s, I would really like to know
@BeefIngot
@BeefIngot 11 месяцев назад
Tom, now that I'm at the end of the video, let me ask you to think about this from the perspective of the average regular 3d printer consumer. A Bambulab P1S is half the cost, prints faster, works right out of the box with no firmware finaglry, has you enter the WiFi info without needing an SD card, has all sorts of ease of use features we've not even seen before on purchasable printers like nozzle cleaning and basically just works. Then, it has both a enclosure and AMS availible all while still being under the cost of the Prusa, and from a company who has thus far earned a pretty good reputation for actually being innovative and being very different from 3d printer companies in the area. Why in all honesty would any person buy a Mk4 vs a Bambulab. The sales point used to be that Prusa is open source and has the best user experience. Now, they still claim they are open source but have been reluctant to actually release the necessary files, have admitted to making their boards awkward to make as a form of soft DRM to "stop cloning" (what's the point of you saying you're open source then???), and have said they want to move away from open source while having benefitted greatly from it and literally being unable to firmware and sowlftware wise since they forked from GPL3 on both. Now, they are very obviously nowhere close to the best user experience with absurd things like having to put WiFi credentials on SD cards, and not even having a method to tune input shaping where the compared printer just use modern methods iot products use and auto tunes IS. So I really have to ask you, why would anyone really spend their hard earned money on something that is objectively worse (worse not as in bad, but notably less good) in just about every way that consumers actually care about and costs more? It feels like the old arguments are dead, so all that remains is dislike of China (for which I will say it's not like people choose where they are born), and privacy concerns (which are legitimate concerns but ultimately a minority and a minority who theyve been addressing the issues of over time with more and more updates). Its just something to think about. Basically, I feel like Prusa has lost its way, and people are bending over backwards to find the good in what they do while bending over backwards to find the bad in what Bambulab does, and even when you do that, ultimately, pen to paper, when you write out the pros and cons, where does that leave Prusa. IMO in the regular people affordable range, Prusa is coasting on brand loyalty right now because there aren't many reasons for anyone to pick them over a Bambulab. The XL Is really awesome (even though it had the same plague of "how isn't this a finished feature yet??" and other issues), but ultimately how many normal people can justify a 2.5 to 5k printer (one which they stingily did not include an enclosure on despite being core xy so they can sell you an expensive one later). I have to say that I had a very positive opinion of Prusa a year or so ago, but there have been so many things popping up that give me an unsettled feeling in my stomach that I just don't know about that anymore. They have a lot to do to regain their status in my opinion. They need to stop with the mudslinging on twitter, stop with the release of unfinished products (of course I don't expect perfection but no completely missing or alpha features advertised to customers as if they were ready), they need to stop obviously cheaping out on parts (why doesn't the Mk4 have an accelerometer for the head and one for the bed when I as a hobbyist added those to my klipperized bed slingers for under 10 bucks???) and they need to stop with stingy things like excluding parts just so you have to buy them later. This was very long, but hopefully there was value to be had in reading this.
@LilApe
@LilApe 11 месяцев назад
A lot of words from someone that sever owned or touched a prusa printer.
@BeefIngot
@BeefIngot 11 месяцев назад
@@LilApe Ah the guy who has admitted to never having a Bambulab printer but goes around pretending they have and comments on literally every video involving prusa and Bambulab. Your criticism also makes no sense considering nothing I said had anything to do with, nor had any relevance to having owned the machine. Lastly, the fact you still upvote yourself is wild.
@LilApe
@LilApe 11 месяцев назад
@@BeefIngot I asked you before if you wanted to see my support tickets to all the BS BL put me through in regards to a broken printer and a refund. You went silent. Kinda like when I said I could provide you with the proof of the tolerances I was getting with my MK3. You said "it wont matter anyways" Tom doesn't give a shit about bambu lab or people opinions about them. He swore them off many months ago due to how toxic the employees and fan base were to him. He said one thing negative but truthfull and they doxxed him and the discord mods even supported it. Hilarious you say you "feel like prusa has lost it's way" when you never owned one or have the slightest idea about their morals and ethics. You're so clueless about prusa and their printers that you were asking the other day why prusa slicer doesn't have the multiple build plate selection like bAmBu LaB. Even though prusa printers don't need it in the slicer due to them having pre sets directly in the printer UI with the saved Z offsets.
@herr_rossi69
@herr_rossi69 11 месяцев назад
That is your personal view of things. I have bought a MK4 kit. Successfully and with fun built and he runs since then without problems. Am I stupid now? What really annoys me are all the Bambulab fan boys who think they can force their opinion on others. There must be something they have to justify their purchase. There are just different tastes. I would never think of using an Apple product. But I would never try to stop anyone from buying such an overpriced product. For example, I'm not interested in the wifi setup via the USb stick at all. I will do that once in the next 5 years. So it is with me with many of your "arguments". They are simply not relevant for me. With Bambulab, not everything went so smoothly at the beginning. There was also some technical problems. And if they had developed everything themselves, they wouldn't be that far along. Every printer will have problems at some point. No matter whether Prusa or Bambulab. What is wrong with Prusa making copying difficult? If it is so shamelessly exploited by Chinese companies, that can be right or fair. Use the sources, improve, return was the sense. Not simply cheapest copy. To the input shaper is to say that you can already set everything on the MK4. Since both probably use klipper so the same as on your Bambulab. Only without Accerolometer. But as you can see here in the video it seems to work on the MK4. What I can also confirm from my own practice. The prints are fast enough for me, beautiful and strong. He prints quietly and reliably. How he does that and if he does not need additional sensors is relatively unimportant to me. As far as I know, Bambulab started the mud battle. For me, the statement from Bambulab showed how they are ticking. And every person can choose that, no matter where he was born.
@redboom9874
@redboom9874 11 месяцев назад
@@LilApe Honestly, I own a p1p and have used an mk3s+ before, and i do like my bambu more. And have a fair amount of experience in open source 3d printing.
@kaasmeester5903
@kaasmeester5903 11 месяцев назад
I didn't really notice a decline in quality with the new firmware (I never tried the alpha). I was rather impressed though at the results from printing the Voronoy Lattice Benchy on the 0.20 speed profile.
@Duraltia
@Duraltia 11 месяцев назад
@05:29 _"Gummy Bears! Gummy Bears! Sprinkles! Sprinkles! Gummy Bears!"_
@mariemeyer2885
@mariemeyer2885 11 месяцев назад
That's why I sent my mini back to Prusa.
@kameleongreen
@kameleongreen 11 месяцев назад
The video audio is quite a bit lower than other youtube videos, you might want to look at that!
@thesledgehammerblog
@thesledgehammerblog 11 месяцев назад
My experience with input shaping on my Mini is just about the same, much faster but with significant drops in print quality. I rarely print anything that takes more than a couple of hours on my Mini, so I suspect I'll probably end up using the input shaping selectively. Then again, with the Mini now running on the same codebase as the Mk4, and Prusa talking about more features coming in the 5.x firmware, I am really starting to think that one of those features might end up being MMU3 support on the Mini, since that seems to be the way things are going right now.
@mamit3760
@mamit3760 11 месяцев назад
An awesome video. Just one small note. The in between notes (Like with the faulty stepper motors) bring a weird subtone to my head, the sounds are uncanny, and quite disturbing.
@fouzaialaa7962
@fouzaialaa7962 11 месяцев назад
im curious if anything will trickle down to marlin ,for us old school DIY'ers that are stuck with just a arduino mega and a ramps
@j4nch
@j4nch 11 месяцев назад
That purple color is incredible, what is the filament?
@MadeWithLayers
@MadeWithLayers 11 месяцев назад
Check out Material4Print and get 10% off with code tom_10 www.material4print.de/?sPartner=1.04
@Basement_CNC
@Basement_CNC 11 месяцев назад
i upgreaded my prusa mini with some 4040 extrusions that support the wobbly 3030 and run a dual extruder instead of the Standard one and used a adxl to determine the resonances , and installed a esp-01 so it runs wifi, and input shaper is great, it isnt as fast as a bamboo p1s or my V0.2, but it runs goot at 40mm/s wich is a huge improovement over stock but i had to change the part fan channel
@thefuzzbl
@thefuzzbl 11 месяцев назад
Can I send you some pegboard mounts with no strings attached? It makes me sad seeing those pegboards mostly unutilized
@hassosigbjoernson5738
@hassosigbjoernson5738 11 месяцев назад
Hey Tom, you forgot one thing in the video, I guess?! After showing the Mark 3 at the beginning you never mentioned it in the final verdict again ... so I am not sure, if such an "old" machine is not producing the same quality (with an up to date slicer, of course) as the newer ones with input shaping - only slower and because of the Papst fans maybe a good deal quieter?! And for me I am still a bit disappointed from Prusa ... because: Bambu Lab "saw" the need for fast printers just by taking a look at the Voron hype and the state that Klipper was like 2-3 years ago. And they delivered. It seems like Prusa didn't saw it (or didn't wanted to?) and still seem to rush out his firmware with Alpha status... I mean the development is interesting and so on ... but it's not like they saw the gap in firmware and software and closed it ones to ensure their "Premium prices" throughout all available machines on the market (looking at Sovol SV07 here) ... it's more like a hustle (also for the consumers). I think it would be beneficial for Prusa to just release products that are "final" again ... otherwise we have the same "Ender 3 learning spiral" we already had with much cheaper machines. A comparison with such a "out of the box Klipper machine" like the Sovol SV07 or Neptune 4 Pro could still be interesting now (also in term of print speed), maybe also included a Bambu P1x machine just for the clicks and comparison. And I hope you do a final video on the Mini, it's support path the last 3 years (compared to lets say an Ender 2/3 Pro or something) and maybe a comparison to the A1 Mini ones Prusa has the firmware final. Oh, und immer schön schauen, wo man hinfährt! ;o) Diese Bandagen sahen alles andere als angenehm aus! - Gute Besserung!
@MisterEDcorp
@MisterEDcorp 11 месяцев назад
As some others commented, I find it crazy what is considered a good and a bad print. I have a El cheepo diy dolly i3 with a few upgrades over time and 90% of my prints are technical and rarely aestetical.
@javanree
@javanree 8 месяцев назад
Any chance of revisiting the MINI with final 5.1.2 firmware ?
@MisterkeTube
@MisterkeTube 11 месяцев назад
The audio of this video is way too low. I'd guess it's about 50% of other videos. Even at full volume on my tablet it's difficult to hear / understand ...
@SirFridge
@SirFridge 11 месяцев назад
I'm really curious about the mk3.5 upgrade and if that would be worth it. Especially with a revo hotend. While the mk3(s+) is older I think it still holds up to most printers out there. Feature wise too. So would the upgrade be a good idea and is therr any chance of input shaping working on it?
@bastienx8
@bastienx8 11 месяцев назад
On the mk3.5 the mechanical parts are not upgraded and some of them might cause problem with input shaping, for example the heavy extruder motor and the slim Z rods. On the mk3.9 and mk4 the extruder is now a pancake motor and the Z rods are about 50% thicker, probably to handle better the fast accelerations needed for input shaping.
@blackswandominiscis7715
@blackswandominiscis7715 11 месяцев назад
Thanks a lot for all this work! Very informative .
@TotallyGlitch
@TotallyGlitch 11 месяцев назад
I have the mini with the e3d revo. I am looking to install the firmware with input shaping once it's confirmed i can use input shaping with other nozzle sizes.
@eusouocara23
@eusouocara23 10 месяцев назад
Please make a video comparing MK4 and bambu P1P or XC. More specifically print quality and time. Thanks!
@kailin1496
@kailin1496 10 месяцев назад
Unfortunately, after some negativity from the bambu community towards Thomas, he will no longer review their machines.
@eusouocara23
@eusouocara23 10 месяцев назад
@@kailin1496 man, that sucks. I didn't know that. Thanks!
@xinox73
@xinox73 7 месяцев назад
What do you do with all the plastic parts, you print..??
@GreenFox1505
@GreenFox1505 11 месяцев назад
How do I find out of my MK4 are "faulty" stepper motors?
@hrmny_
@hrmny_ 11 месяцев назад
the audio seems to be like 12db too quiet?
@MrGerhardGrobler
@MrGerhardGrobler 11 месяцев назад
Nice video. Don't worry about being late. Life happens while you make other plans.
@MMuraseofSandvich
@MMuraseofSandvich 11 месяцев назад
Bike decided to dump you on the pavement? I've been there too. Bikes can be needlessly cruel sometimes. Hope you feel better, Tom.
@KennethScharf
@KennethScharf 11 месяцев назад
Is the new firmware available for the older Mk3 printers, or is it dependant on the 32 bit board, which would make a HW upgrade necessary on the MK3 to a MK4 (at least partially)? Also does Prusa Slicer now support other printers that have input shaping and pressure advance (printers running Klipper, or converted to run Klipper) such as Voron?
@stewiex
@stewiex 11 месяцев назад
Very thorough review! But... now that I've watched all 23 minutes and 46 seconds, can you tell us non-Prusa owners what input shaping is for? 😢😂
@antoniocross5956
@antoniocross5956 11 месяцев назад
Have 6 Minis running my print farm by now. Awesome printers but man do the hot ends, heat brakes and extenders of Prusa suck. Learnt directly after the purchase of the first printer to swap by default the extruded with the bond tech one and the hot end is now fully from slice engineering. Those are costly but unavoidable upgrades if one wants to print 24/7 the entire year.
@Raytenecks
@Raytenecks 11 месяцев назад
The volume on this video is really low compared to the rest of RU-vid. FYI.
@BartAfterDark
@BartAfterDark 11 месяцев назад
Sound is a bit low or just me?
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