This. This is something NOBODY talks about. The long term maintenance on roller guns is horrific complete and total money sinks. If one thing goes wrong, you'll be scratching your head for weeks trying to fix it. Locking lugs, rollers, bolt gap, barrel shift, extractors failing after 2-3000 rounds. I've put 6,000 rounds through my Z43 and it's disgusting. Also fluted chamber that destroy your brass and roller delay guns are disgustingly filthy. Not worth it, buy a UMP. Simple, utilitarian, has "recoil", and won't fail you... And you can reuse the brass.
I haven’t personally shot one. However our Atlanta (Georgia) police department run the UMP 40 with the two shot burst lower. Talked to one of the officers that was running one and he was pissed when they forced him to hand in his MP5 in exchange for that. He said the only upside is it’s lighter and he has never actually and probably never will actually use it. So it’s a lighter paper weight swung around his shoulders lol
Dan Martinez, true. However, specifically speaking about .40 it’s a shortened 10mm and a bad compromise at any rate. Both 9 and .45 have some advantages over .40. And if brut power in a semi handgun is the game it’s hard to beat 10mm. Also .41AE is ballistically better than .40 S&W and similar recoil impulse.
@@nsatoday yeah and I'm a big fan of 10mm. I definitely agree about .40 being a poor excuse of a compromise round. What I was getting at is that if they're going to run a sub gun in best cm, their handguns should be in best cm to simplify logistics. But must cops aren't gun guys that are going to spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars out of their own pocket to train to use their guns effectively. 9mm is very forgiving for novice shooters and honestly isn't too far behind in ballistics gel testing so the guns are probably going to be in 9mm. For the agencies still using .40, it still makes some sort of sense to stick with them because the guns are smaller and can be made more compact.
Man I love the hell outta my UMP9 clone- but I'm also a weeb who has a collection inspired by Girls Frontline so...there's that. No lie, it was cool seeing one in the wild over in the Philippines used by Law Enforcement- same with the Galil ACE
not to forget .45 cartridges weigh nearly double as much as 9mm for basically the same performance, which is an issue in military applications when carrying a full load.
@@scottdunnington-smith9692 look basic nato fmj in .45 and 9mm both have about 550 Joule of energy. you can play around with +p or +p+ but that comes at a price like the .45 becoming supersonic (subsonic being one of its few advantages.) dont compare 9mm range ammo with the best .45 you can find. thats absurd and even then both are still handgun cartridgwes and need proper shot placement.
@@arumatai With comparable ammo, .45 absolutely performs better than 9mm. Only most LE and Military agencies prefer the control-ability and ammo capacity versus slightly better ballistics. Most .45 rounds have around 50-100 more joules than comparable 9MM, and energy aside, a larger caliber by itself makes the round more effective. (unless we are talking about going through body armor.)
For a gun that went into service 20! years ago, I think its a pretty damn good gun. Look at what was available in 1999 and the UMP was a pretty solid, modern choice!
@@F-5E3_Tiger_II IDK, I kinda disagree with that. While sure the MP5 is a lot softer shooting, what really bring the UMP into its own is the bolt release. Doesn't seem like much, but when you try to actually use it, the MP5's slower reload really becomes apparent. The UMP is way faster to reload. MP5 can't have a bolt hold open because if any dirt gets in the interfaces for the lugs, the whole gun seizes up tight and it is dead. Only the FBI contracted 10mm had a bolt catch, and that is because it was for "sterile" urban environments. That being said I would pick an Uzi over either. More compact, cheaper (if that matters), and a more reasonable stock length than the UMP's stock. I think to date, the Uzi variants are the most circulated SMG in the world.
@@F-5E3_Tiger_II The Tiger Tank was "infinitely better" than the T-34 in virtually every single way. The T-34 still won the war. Something that is low cost and easy to manufacture can also be seen as "superior" even if it isn't really superior in overall performance.
@@rockerdude8000 it probably happened when he was posing with a weapon in front of a mirror or when he was pretending top ramen was actually really good restaurant quality
H&K were bought out by Royal Ordinance which also owns Enfield, which is why British Police seem to have the latest H&K stuff before anyone. Sadly they are then hobbled by the Health and Safety squad being scared of law suites, so no full auto on 416, MP5, MP7 or G36 and also limited magazine sizes, very strange. It's is also why H&K are being forced to work on the stupid SA80/L85 rifle.
Coming from a Brit, it's a bit weird to hear that the British military and police get new HK stuff first when their sidearms are made by SIG and Glock, they still use the MP5 in airport security and counter-terrorist roles, and all of the L85A2 upgrades were complete decades ago.
@@stevenbobbybills It is indeed very weird, armed response units patrol with G36s, HK416s, MP5s and MP7s, even seen a patrol with a DMR spec HK417 (.308) once. But again they need to keep to some safety regulations, for example single shot only and smaller mag size, even the MP7 uses a none AP round because of over-penetration.
BAE sold H&K to German investment group in 2002. H&K has subsidiaries in the U.K., France and the U.S.A. They are a German company owned and run by Germans. Thank God!
@@OhioGuy216 They are now yes :) thankfully we still have a very good relationship with H&K and know the quality of their work. That's why UK police forces have all H&K weapons, MP5, MP7, G36 and HK417 to name a few are in current active service.
all real NFA guys and guns guys know there is a "butter zone" for RPM. 500-600 is easy and soft to control, 750-950 is jumpy and odd, 1000 and above are so fast they become easy to control and shoot. This concept has vetted and holds true. When you design a gun to fire full auto in this crappy zone you should expect crap.
Jacob Harris I thought he said the RPM was around 600 but it should be less. Is that what you mean? It’s crappy and needs to be lowered more into the butter zone?
STONE PHILLIPS I think it’s out of place for him to have mentioned the NFA in the first place as “gun guys” would have also worked, but how does him saying that make him a 19 year old that lives at home and why is that even an insult? Other than teens that go to college most 19 year olds do live at home with their parents...
Having the pleasure to shoot class 3, I find the UMP-40 to "swim" in fun mode. Instead of straight back recoil like the MP-5 I found the UMP to more or less oscillate.
So, a UMP 9 would be awesome in post-apocalyptic games? The thing that you find and have work immediately? And if you find the conversion parts you can use all your pilfered ammo.
Best operator certification course (mp5) i ever qualified on. Navy version and family is excellent and has stood test of time. Distance is a factor but for cqb it rocks. Would love to have a few sessions with the ump.
I legitimately believed that gun mag warehouse sold gun magazines like the ones in grocery stores, I don't know how many other fans are as autistic as me but you might think about clarifying they are actually selling a lot of ammunition magazines if you want to increase sales volume.
@@zibingotaeam3716 honestly, not really. The reality is both the MP 5/40 and MP 5/10 were not very good guns, and that's exactly why the end-users stopped purchasing and using them, long before HK stop manufacturing them. They have issues with their ability, they're not nearly as controllable, and the magazines are a little wonky. The truth is, the MP5 is still an outstanding Gun - in 9 mm. The other calibers don't live up to the hype. if you want a 10 mm subgun you're better off going with something like a Kriss Vector or the new CMMG stuff
Someone needs to tell Garand that loose tolerance guns like the AK have issues with dirty environments. Dirt doesn't "slosh" around, it gets into recesses like locking lugs, fire control components, and guide rods. Those guns have larger ingress points due to loose tolerances. They're really only good at wallowing in their own filth for years on end. If you want a gun that stands up to external dirt, base it off of a tight tolerance gun like the AR15 or SCAR.
EXACTLY. InRangeTV does a whole series of mud tests and with the loose tolerances of the AK, mud gets inside and jams everything up. Definitely worth a watch.
@@SSPspaz but whenever I try to point this out, the person I'm speaking to basically just says "bruh no dirt stopping no ak bruh" and it's impossible to get them to listen.
@@stevenbobbybills, don't get me wrong. The AK was an impressive feat of engineering in it's time. There's a reason why it's one of the most mass produced rifle of all time. Is it generally true that a typical AK will eat whatever you feed it, doesn't require a whole lot of cleaning, etc.? Absolutely. Does that mean that you're any less screwed if you submerge it in mud? Nope. ARs performed way better in those kinds of torture tests and the AK fanboys refuse to hear it.
Flannel daddy says "if this could go back a decade and a half, it would be a great gun, but in 1998 it's behind it's time" a decade and a half ago =2003
@@johnbacon4997 It was the impulse, not overall. My weekend gun is a Remington 700 PSS in 308, which is more pleasant than the USC with 230 gr fmj. Double taps or follow ups are impossible. A subgun that can't be used for a high volume of fire isn't too useful.
Simple answer: Fuck NO it's not "overrated". Spent years as active Army Infantry and shot a lot of shit at gun club machine gun shoots. Overall, this was the best feeling, easy to shoot, great open sight picture of anything I've handled. The Steyr Aug on the other hand was the most miserable POS I ever shot. There's a lot of great choices like the Sig 552, MP5 and MP7.
My police department lent me one for my practical shooting test (I live in belgium, you need to pass both theoretical test about the legislation and a safe handling test with a live gun to get gun detention permits) and while I didn't really noticed the recoil, the weight really striked me as odd... While yes, they did stuck a bajillion tacticool shit on it, it felt like my 9mm MP40 replica had the same weight...
I didn't really shot it enough to get a solid impression; same for the MP5, I just dumped 1 mag at an HK sales demo once (a pr stunt for the newly released HK243 at the time).
You killed my dream gun, thanks. I'm late to this video party but I came here from the stribog review because that looks like this, to me. Well, it still looks cool at least. I was never going to own one so I guess it don''t matter.
I understand that a UMP9 & UMP45 have different calibers & probably different barrels to accommodate the types of ammunition (most likely they can't fire each others magazine) - I just want to know if a UMP9 mag can fit into a UMP45 mag well.
Not the most practical, but rhe ump is still a bucket list gun for me, civilian clone obviously. I already have a scorpion evo and ps90. Looking into one this year. But none of them are replacing my short ar15s though for a serious situation.
Need to check on the special-forces around the world if they had replaced their main weapon after using the mp5 and this for many years. Maybe the 9mm had also been deprecated to rubber-bullets only.
If it's straight blowback firing from a closed bolt the bolt is going to be heavier. Heavier bolt means more shaking of the weapon as that huge heavy bolt flies back and forth. This is inherently going to have the worse recoil.
Yeah, but what PCC takes Glock mags and is consistently reliable? The evo doesn’t get my dick hard. The mpx looks cool, but keymod sucks and no one makes a 1913 or mlok rail for it that I’m aware of. Also Sig’s recent qc is garbage. Let alone the cost for a piston gun and suppressor usage sucks, for gas to the face. Mp5 only cool with the giggle switch. And I don’t trust ar-style pcc for reliability.
Had a vector but sold it. It was okay but just too heavy on the shoulder wearing a sling. Its also too loud. Got the evo3, its great and got the usc/ump 45 and i love it.
Eventually the stock also flexes, and if someone should decide to abuse one of their department's umps, it might uh.. melt everything near the barrel and permanently ruin its point of impact. Not good plastic to keep in inventory for years in really hot environments where indoors/cars can be like 200 degrees.
Deformation happens below melting point. It's not like it becomes a puddle. The plastic gets more malleable at higher temperatures, and over time will lose shape. To draw a parallel, 1095 spring steel melts at over 1300 degrees C, but can be forged well below that, and can be worked somewhat at like half its melting point.
I think UMP-9 is about legalities or geographic availability of ammo. For example: your department or unit has been stock-piled with 9mm due to,...say, budgetary constraints. Let's face it, in my country 9mm costs way less than 45 acp... I just don't know in Texas if it is the same. Or, some kind of law deemed the .45 acp is to inhumane to use and only allows 9mm. But you want the reliability of the UMP, because... say you live in a tropical country, like I do, with all that humidity and mud during ops in the jungle, and... Oh man! That 600 cycle rate is far better than the m3a1 grease "thing" my grand dad used to teach me how to fire autos. Very economical too. The point is, the UMP seems a very flexible weapon system, as you say you can convert it to a caliber you like/need... But is it on the go? I'd really love if it is. (I hope you could show a video how it is done.) One thing about it, if you're on the field and you finally ran out of ammo, and you stumbled on a cache of ammo or a dead tango's body with unused clips of a different caliber, how fast could you convert it to accept that round?
Could you do the UMP .45? Maybe see if the different cartridge has different recoil impulse? I know in handguns at least the 2 cartridges recoil quite differently.
It was kind of designed around the premise just for the 45, adding 9mm and 40 to that platform was kind of unessicarry.. Other than the recoil impulse that kind of takes some getting used to, it's not bad😑
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