I've thought about this for a bit recently... the most love shown to the "newer Kirby" is in the Galacta Knight and Dark Meta Knight skins, the Masked Dedede final smash and the song selection for the stages, but that latter one is more of a small boon, I really do wish we could have a new stage based on the DreamStalk flower with Sectonia or Taranza adding stage effects, or something similar with the Star Allies altar and having the Mage Sisters. I will forever riot until Bandana Waddle Dee is represented and allowed the spotlight.
Great video, man. Although I would absolutely love for there to be more non-Sakurai Kirby representation in the Super Smash Bros. series, I wouldn't use that as an excuse to demonize Mr. Sakurai; I mean, he's made some pretty awesome works and while Shinya Kumazaki and co. deserve the credit for the Kirby series as it is today, without Sakurai there'd be no Kirby! Also, it's pretty great that despite leaving HAL to go freelance in the early 2000s, he's still on great terms with them. Again, great work on this!
Nicely said. Agree. We have Kirby because Sakurai and Iwata basically helped save HAL's finicial future after an ambitious game bombed. Sakurai's work has influenced the narratives (Shinya Kumazaki has stated on 2 occasions that Kirby's Adventure is a big influence on the narrative structure of the later ganes) and set the standard for the design. Easy for beginners but more complex under the surface. I can't imagine the Kirby we have today without him and everyone whose worked on Kirby since his departure has been amazing as well adding their own touches.
Sakurai is a legend, but he's also only human. It makes sense he would be biased towards his own version of Kirby instead of the modern one... but that's why I feel like its important for multiple perspectives to be involved. Sakurai has a lot of one-sided viewpoints, often miss-portraying characters (looking at you Bowser) I assume because of his more old-school views... (he grew up with the original Mario games after all, where Bowser was just some evil monster who kidnapped the princess). Nobody can make Smash Bros. like Sakurai can... but that doesn't necessarily mean nobody else could do it well. There's only so far Nostalgia can go, and I feel like a lot of Sakurai's bias comes from nostalgia and references to older less-modern versions of things. But the thing is... living in the past hinders the work of the future. The newer generations don't have nostalgia for older games, they have nostalgia for the games they grew up with. I myself grew up with Kirby's Return to Dreamland as my first real Kirby game, and I have deeply rooted love for the newer generation of Kirby and its characters. Even going so far as to say its the peak of Kirby, far greater than its predecessors. Sakurai has done phenomenal work, far beyond what any would've expected. He works so hard, but inevitably time takes its toll. Supposedly, Ultimate is going to be his last Smash Bros. game... and I feel its a good thing for Sakurai to finally be able to get some rest. Smash Bros. will come back eventually, its too big to die out anytime soon, and Nintendo will surely keep bringing it back as long as it makes substantial profits, meaning whether Sakurai is involved or not it will continue to grow. I often here about Sakurai's dislike for making sequels, and he has very particular beliefs on the subject... but I feel that sequels and continuations are more than just a way to make money, its a way to carry on a game's legacy, expand the worlds and creativity of those concepts, and inspire new and even greater creations. I'm hoping that whoever comes next to take the baton from Sakurai will be able to learn from Sakurai's accomplishments and faults and further expand the potential for the series, just like Shinya Kumazaki did when continuing the Kirby series in Sakurai's place.
A subtle thing regarding the move sets of the Kirby gang is that many of their animations and sound effects are more reflective of the older games. I think the biggest example of this is Kirby’s inhale noise. Though I don’t blame Mr. Sakurai for representing the games he was involved in more than the others (I think many of us would do the same in his place), I feel like when creating a crossover tribute to video game history, it would be ideal to represent the entire history of the series involved in the crossover. As someone who has grew up with the newer games in the series, it’s kinda a bummer to not see them come up all that much in Smash Bros. At the end of the day though, it doesnt take anything away from Smash Bros, the games still really fun
Going through the Brawl descriptions for King Dedede and Meta Knight's trophies...they're actually...kinda lore accurate. Give a point to Mr. Sakurai for that one!
@@SonicoVT Sakurai has never said anything about lore ever Ppl need to stop making up opinions for the guy lol he's only ever wanted HAL to keep the mystery of Kirby’s abilities in tact which is smart for game design as it leaves the door open to what Kirby can do in games.
Isnt sakurai like one of the people that thought of the kirby series? Idk i hear people say that he isthe creator or something of kirby. I mean we had brawl meta knight running tournaments since day 1
@@allen2reckless676 Sakurai created Kirby the character and a lot of programing and sprite design of the original Kirby's Dreamland. He also was the person who wanted to and implemented the idea of powers for Kirby. He directed some of the earliest and influential games in the franchise. Dreamland which launched Kirby, Adventure which gave him his powers and made King Dedede an ally (also the story structure of future games according to Shinya Kumazaki) , and Super Star which influenced the gameplay of Smash Brothers and the moveset powers of later Kirby games. Kirby Super Star also introduced co op in the series and one of the Earliest Nintendo platformers to have co op.
Very good video but I will say something about Dedede’s character in Subspace Emissary: it actually IS very accurate to his character. As the prologue (on the SmashDojo website) states, Dedede had created the badges to allow some fighters to remain alive after Tabuu turns everyone into trophies. This showcases the technical finesse he has since he’s often shown creating his own gadgets, like the Dedede Hammer 2.0, HR-D3 (which was likely considered to be his own invention since Kirby GCN was in development at the time) and the Dededestroyer Z (the latter being nearly ten years later but whatever). He also gives up his own badge for the sake of Peach/Zelda, essentially sacrificing his own life for hers. As for why Kirby and the others started attacking him? Well, it’s simple: he’s doing the right thing in the wrong way. Harkening back to Kirby’s Adventure, it’s just the classic misunderstanding trope that Dedede and Kirby have been through many times. Kirby assumes that Dedede is up to no good and wants to put him in his place. Overall, Dedede was represented near perfectly in Subspace Emissary
Sakurai should really embrace more of the new stuff his pink boy has to offer. 1. New Movesets: Kirby's moveset should have more copy abilities in it, not just the ones from Adventure and Superstar but also from the newer games like Return to DreamLand, Triple Deluxe, Planet Robobot, and Star Allies. Meta Knight's moveset should be more like his moveset from Super Smash Bros Brawl and include some of Sword Kirby's moves. King Dedede has to have more of Hammer Kirby's attacks and his Masked hammer's attacks as well. 2. New Fighters: Bandana Waddle Dee is a fan-favorite of the Kirby franchise and could represent modern Kirby + his moveset from Return to DreamLand and Star Allies, and also some moves borrowed from Parasol Kirby. Magolor would make an excellent fighter as well with his moveset derived from his attacks from Return to DreamLand and it's remaster and Star Allies. 3. New Stages: There should be a stage where it takes place in Another Dimension from Kirby's Return to DreamLand and the Lor Starcutter and Sphere Doomers could be stage obstacles. Another stage could be Floralia from Kirby Triple Deluxe where it takes place on the Dreamstalk and it carries the battlefield into the levels from the game (Fine Fields, Lollipop Land, Old Odyssey, Wild World, Endless Explosions, Royal Road). There could also be a stage taken from Resolution Road, the second level in Kirby Planet Robobot and the Waddle Dees driving in cars could come from the background and drive into the foreground as stage obstacles. 4. New Remixes: There should be more remixes of songs from the non-Sakurai Kirby games. For example: Rick's Theme, Coo's Theme, Kine's Theme, and Dark Matter's Theme from Kirby's DreamLand 2. Grassland 1, Grassland 4, Ripple Field 2, Sand Canyon 3, Iceberg, Hyper Zone, and Zero's Theme from Kirby's DreamLand 3. Popstar, Rock Star, Neo Star, Factory Inspection, Ripple Star Map, Ripple Star, and Dark Star from Kirby 64. Drawcia Sorceress and Drawcia Soul from Kirby Canvas Curse. Masked Dedede's Theme and Greatest Warrior in the Galaxy (Galacta Knight's Theme) from Kirby Superstar Ultra. Fountain Gardens, Flower Fields, Rainbow Falls, Big Bean Vine, Lava Landing, Melody Town, Splash Beach, Snowy Fields, Mt. Slide, Future City, Tube Town, and Stellar Way from Kirby's Epic Yarn. The Adventure Begins, Magolor the Distant Traveler, Doomer Dimension, Vs. Sphere Doomers, Through the Forest, Snowball Scuffle, Sky Tower, Vs. Grand Doomer, Dangerous Dinner, Vs. Landia, Another Dimension, CROWNED, and Road to Victory from Kirby's Return to DreamLand. Title Theme, Floral Fields, Hypernova Theme, Reflected Laughter, Old Odyssey, Endless Explosions, Moonlit Capital, Beautiful Prison, Taranza's Theme, Sullied Grace, Moonstruck Blossom, and The World to Win from Kirby Triple Deluxe. The Noble Haltmann, Venturing Into the Mechanized World, Pink Ball Activate!, Lovely Va Va Vrooms, My Sweet Time, Dried-Up Sea, Sky-High and Smitten, L86, Crazy Rolling in Money, Vs. Star Dream, and Vagrant Counting Song of Retrospection from Kirby Planet Robobot. Song of Supplication and Void Termina's Theme from Kirby Star Allies.
this was a great video! very informative and engaging! also every time you referred to Wheelie as "my son" it made me laugh lol can't wait to watch your KatFL review!!! :^D
A video about Mario’s representation in Smash would be interesting. Considering that Mario overall priorities the mainline games over the spin-offs in smash (notice how long it took for Daisy to get in as a Peach clone and only now added due to fan demand, and notice how Waluigi and Paper Mario are missing in action), and that people on Twitter and/or GameFAQs always nagged on how dated or inaccurate the specials and even normals are for the big 4. And then there’s Wario, who’s a who other can of worms.
Some notes/Mistakes I and other people have noticed: -Despite how I say Sakurai worked in Amazing Mirror I still counted every AM reference, I should have said that Sakurai was a "Special Advisor" meaning that he didn't have too much involvent and seeing how niche the references are I counted them (I asked some other Kirby youtubers for this blame them lol) - Dedede's down air in brawl could have inspired hammer twirl in RtDl but it was changed in Smash 4 -There was going to be a cutscene explaining why Meta Knight lost the Halberd but it was cut due to time If anything else is wrong feel free to tell me!
As for more evidence that Sakurai and Kumazaki are on good terms. Sakurai has shown that he has purchased modern games by showing Kirby Triple Deluxe in his collection and in an interview in NintendoDream Magazine, Kumazaki has stated he consulted a previous director for advice. That director was MOST likely Sakurai so Sakurai and him have spoken on Kirby and design. I don't think Sakurai would advise, support with purchases, and show up to events for modern Kirby if he disliked modern Kirby. He interested in Kirby's success as creator.
the mechanical hammer in smash may come from the cancelled gamecube kirby game that sakurai apparently worked on that became kirby's return to dreamland, smash brawl famously uses models from the cancelled game in the trophys
i think you failed to mention that Meta Knight's tornado attack is a move he uses when fought in games like kirby super star (& ultra) and has been seen used by the other knights as well (also i sometime barely understood what you said but i managed to get most of it)
@@famaki8072 I did call it the "mach tornado" which is the official name used in the boss fights but I should have mention that it comes from super star. Also my english is not the best, sorry about that, hopefully you could still enjoy the video
Funny thing, considering the cut kirby gamecube content we know of, it's likely that dedede's jet hammer and meta knight's shuttle loop might have originally come from that.
This can all be solved if Sakurai just adds 2 more characters to the series honestly Kirby fans would be content with 5 Kirby fighters Bandana Waddle Dee and Magolor being the last plus he could use the Lore Starcutter as a Stage and make another Stage based around King dedede's castle were Mid-bosses from the modern era appears as stages hazards see 5 fighters 3 stages. Kirby and MK main stage is Halberd B.W.D and King Dedede for King Dedede's castle and Magolor for Starcutter and yes Kirby's moveset needs a tune up lol plz add more punching moves ditch Final Cutter and Hammer
35:34 actually we do! If you go to the old smash bros dojo website (which was basically Sakurai's smash bros blog) he mentions how there's a taken out scene where the subspace army takes over the Halberd and Dedede unintentionally stalls Meta Knight from preventing it from happening
Sakurai may have created the Kirby series, he may have given us some of the most memorable characters in Nintendo’s history. But that doesn’t mean that the current team haven’t done so and I think the newer Kirby games deserve more credit in Smash than they’re given, especially with how outside of ONE new remix, the modern Kirby series has no other remixes, all the stages and items are from the older games, and even Bandana Dee Hans:t gotten in yet despite being a heavily requested character from what I see. Sakurai really needs to step up his game.
Amazing video. It's impressive to see how much work you put into it and definitely how much you care about this series. Let's hope that the next smash game will have maybe... An Amazing Mirror Stage, a new modern character and maybe some new remixes too. Also, thank you so so so much for the shout-out at the end, I now like to imagine that your viewers will know me as "The Pez Guy"
If I could add any Kumazaki-era Kirby representation to Smash, I think it'd be Another Dimension as a stage. Not just cause it's such a cool area, but also because they could have the stage hazards be rifts that spawn other modern characters like Magolor, Taranza, Susie, and the Mage Sisters, who could attack the fighters with some of their boss moves. Basically that'd be the perfect way to represent a ton of modern Kirby all at once, and finally shut down the idea Sakurai has a weird grudge against it.
Is it possible that the teleportation of the Warp Star at the beginning of World of Light is inspired by the last seconds of the Grand Opening cutscene from Super Star Ultra (that remake was directed by Kumazaki), where Kirby and the Warp Star disappear with a similar effect?
Maybe! I went back to check how they look and yes, they look veeeeery similar, I don't know if it's a coincidence or a reference but either way it's really cool!
Ok I finished the documentary. I will say, "misrepresentation" is perhaps the wrong word to use when discussing the Kirby series in smash. Ultimately, the series is just "biasedly represented," primarily showcasing the older games to an absurd amount, while essentially starving the newer games dry. It's a gripe but at least what was represented was done very well... _STOP LOOKING AT THE BS MOVESETS! LOOK AWAY!_
@@SonicoVT the older games being overrepresented isn't bad imo. They have the most impact on the franchise in terms of design, staples, and framework. Not to mention their huge impact on how Smash itself plays. It's not just Kirby history but Smash history. Like yeah more of a bone could be thrown to a new game but I wouldn't say that representing the classics is bad either considering their importance.
@@MegaKirbySuperstar I here where you're coming from, but it's still weird that the newer games are barely being represented. I think they're pretty important to the series as well.
@@magic2546 Kirby isn't the only series that does this. As someone knows about Kingdom Hearts, Sora in Smash is reduced to only KH 1 references, with the side special coming from Dream Drop Distance.This is a good thing, because a full KH 2 moveset would make Sora broken in Smash. So maybe Sakurai wants to keep the references to the modern Kirby games to a minimum to make sure that the Kirby characters are balanced?????
I haven't fully watched the documentary yet, but might I say, you nailed exactly how I feel about the movesets of the Kirby trio. If I may add a bit for King Dedede, I've always found it weird that his up air (upwards hammer twirl) wasn't made to be his down air, which would be based on hammer twirl from the games. And I also find it odd that Bandanna Waddle Dee still doesn't appear in King Dedede's final smash. He's sort of an important character; it's kinda weird he's not there. Ok but where are my Morpho Knight and Shadow Dedede echo fighters?
Almost 4 hours later but the HD version is finally out for everyone to enjoy! Sorry for the long wait, I should have known this could be a problem and should have waited until it finished. Again, Sorry...
Tl;dr: While I love modern Kirby, I still think it's well represented franchise with a large yet understandably bias towards one specific part of it. Long read version: As someone who's introduction to Kirby (and gaming in general) was a modern game, that being Return to Dreamland, it's always been kinda sad to see an era of Kirby I'm so attached to not be represented all that much. It however has also been quite understandable. Kirby is probably very sacred to Sakurai considering he made Kirby. I feel like it's natural he would mostly focus on games that he developped because that's what he has created. I'd probably be guilty of doing the same thing if I was in similar shoes. Plus, Kirby could've gotten much worse. What we have now is great. I would even somewhat vouch for the movesets because while not having as many references as they could do go for what the character is trying to convey from their games with Kirby being a beginner character who's easy to pick up Meta Knight being a nimble swordsman, always on his opponent and Dedede being a boss character that does big damage but with telegraphed attacks that can be easy to avoid and counter. Still, a part of me will always wish we had something big from modern Kirby like at least one remix or, and this just me spitballing here, a stage in Smash 4 that wasn't just another stage from Super Star because we already had the Halberd. I swear who thought the Great Cave Offensive was a good idea. We already had a new Kirby stage from a game Sakurai made on the 3DS so it would've been a great chance to get a modern Kirby stage on the Wii U. We could've gotten the plave where you battle Sectonia, Another Dimension, Egg Engines, Moonlight Capital. Literally *anything* that wasn't this giant overly cluttered mess of a stage you would have to pay someone money to actually play. Wow that GCO rant went a bit longer than expected. Bottom line is Kirby's well represented just not from the modern games.
@@SonicoVT Kirby isn't the only series that does this. As someone knows about Kingdom Hearts, Sora in Smash is reduced to only KH 1 references, with the side special coming from Dream Drop Distance.This is a good thing, because a full KH 2 moveset would make Sora broken in Smash. So maybe Sakurai wants to keep the references to the modern Kirby games to a minimum to make sure that the Kirby characters are balanced?????
My main problem with Sakurai will always be his favoritism towards the stuff HE likes. Sonic's kit being based on Sonic the fighters instead of Sonic Battle still bothers me (also the lazy as heck Up B), and cant understate how the FE characters are constantly rushed in so Sakurai can play the games early (DLC is decided before the game launched people. Stop trying to make these conspiracy theories of how Byleth was originally Tracer or Monster Hunter or something.) While im not a huge fan of Kirby, it definitely would've been nice if he put in references to more modern kirby games outside of Trophies or PNG's. I do also want to make it clear that despite the favoritism, he still makes an effort to give fans what they want which is nice, and I've DEFINITELY seen worse character interpretations out there then "oh no, Kirby's kit hasnt really been updated since 64"
My problem with Bandana Dee not being in the game isn't because he's not a fighter. It's because he's not in the game at all. Most other highly requested characters get an assist trophy, or get to be part of another character's moveset. As much as people make fun of them, characters like Waluigi, Shadow, Bomberman, Rex, or Issac ARE in the game. You just can't play as them, but they have fully made 3d models, attacks and voice acting. But stage cameos are also a neat way to have a character appear. Such as the Phantom Theives or King Of Fighters characters. They do make appearances and help bring life to stages. Mii costumes also help make it appear as if you're playing as a specific character, such as Doom Slayer, Cuphead or Sans. Or if all else fails, they'll appear in a final smash or get a spirit battle. Spirit battles are very fun ways to represent a fighter, even if they haven't appeared as they reference traits specific to the character's spirit Bandana Dee doesn't have an assist trophy, he doesn't appear in another character's moveset or final smash, he doesn't make a cameo on a stage, he doesn't even have his own spirit battle or Mii costume. Badana Dee appears as a mediocre spirit. One of the worst spots of representation you could get. Meanwhile, Chef Kawasaki, a character who only appeared rarely in two early main games, and appeared as a joke character in the anime that even the protagonists didn't like, gets an assist trophy. Kawasaki was basically deemed more important that Bandana Waddle Dee. I don't care if he becomes playable, I just want him to have a more specific role On the subject of spirits I hate that Dark Matter, Magolor, and Sectonia can't evolve into their powered up forms but Nightmare, Marx and Daroach can. Inspired of the fact that Daroach was merely possessed by Dark Nebula unwillingly, and Marx's "True form" is just him revealing his wings and not some great big transformation like Ultimate makes it out to be. Hurts on Magolor and Dark Matter the worst because the latter is stuck in it's weakest form despite all the more powerful versions it could evolve into including it's true form, and the former, Magolor Soul, is one of the most popular bosses in the series
The most insulting part for me is that Bandana Dee is an evolution of normal Waddle Dee, *We* know he is its own character but it comes off as Bandana only being a stronger Waddle Dee, doesn't help with "Goomba with a hat" case
@@SonicoVT Personally I only find it insulting because it means he doesn't have a spirit battle. Captain Toad evolves from a normal Toad, King Boo evolves from a normal Boo, Petey Piranha evolves from a Nipper Plant. Granted, Petey and Captain Toad appear in other forms with 3D models.
Marx’s “True Form” isn’t that correct either What happened to Marx Soul? I get it’s non canon, but Marx Soul is more of what Marx’s true form to be than.. just him with wings.
@@Murr248 Bandana Dee is just a playable in co-op games. Sakurai wants characters playable in single player modes. Good example is Meta Knight in the GBA game.
i’d like to see if bandana dee is in smash 6, sakurai in his presentation is just like “Excuse my language, but will you all Shut the fuck up now please”
I hate how Kirby is represented in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate because there's more Sakurai material than non-Sakurai material. I wanted more stages, characters, and music that had material from more recent Kirby games like Kirby's return to dreamland, Kirby triple deluxe, Kirby planet robobot, etc. I also would've preferred Magolor as a boss over Marx because he has a more unique design, memorable music, and a second form. The least they could've done is add Marx soul two-thirds into the fight as a second form with his other attacks. I would've loved to have Galacta Knight over Byleth because of his abilities with glowing knives, lasers, lightning, tornadoes, etc. Plus, it would've provided more Kirby content and wouldn't have given fire emblem even MORE content. Most non-Sakurai references felt hollow because they were pngs instead of fighters. To me, it's the equivalent of barely acknowledging someone by glancing at them and ignoring their presence afterward. I'm glad CROWNED, Moonstruck Blossom, and the world to win made it. However, it's weird how Another Dimension, Under My Control, and Sullied Grace weren't included. They don't even need to be remixed. Sakurai was THIS close! The pictures Sakurai took with Kumazaki and Sakurai's statements about the Kirby franchise look like a PR situation because they want to look good in front of everyone. I see this in various political figures where political rivals take group photos with each other to look good, not because they like each other. I may be wrong about Sakurai, but that's my impression based on what I see.
I just hope that someday there’s going to be another kirby rep, Bandanna dee, Magolor, Adeleine & Ribbon (I know I mentioned them like 20 times, but they really need more representation).
I'd say kirby is misrepresented. Not because there's nothing, but because there's more Sakurai references than non Sakurai references. The problem with this that you didn't mention is that Sakurai only made 4 kirby games, and one of them was a spin off title. Not to mention, they're the mid to low tier kirby games, with basically every kirby game not made by Sakurai being better than Sakurai, with a few exceptions like air ride and the curse games
@@Hamantha Kirby isn't the only series that does this. As someone knows about Kingdom Hearts, Sora in Smash is reduced to only KH 1 references, with the side special coming from Dream Drop Distance.This is a good thing, because a full KH 2 moveset would make Sora broken in Smash. So maybe Sakurai wants to keep the references to the modern Kirby games to a minimum to make sure that the Kirby characters are balanced?????
You say that, but that's kinda disregarding that Kirby Super Star Ultra isn't a remake of Super Star. And I would argue that SSU is one of the better Kirby games, as would many others. I agree there's a lot missing, but Kirby does reuse quite a lot of things (notably not the curry or the star rod, though) from it's original games. Also also, I expect Smash to not be built from the ground up for every iteration. Thus, having the movesets they have for the 3 Kirby characters not changing does make sense. There are some characters they change a lot, but usually just when they're too similar to other characters (from my knowledge. Thinking of Cpt Falcon and Ganondorf, Link and Toon Link/Young Link). Although they should have made something for Ultimate, since Star allies revisits a lot of what's in Smash.
Whispy Woods attacks using apples in Kirby’s Dreamland, which is why it’s his main attack in every game following. Don’t know why you singled out 64 as a reference for that.
Yeah. Even if he is, his work is some of the most iconic in the series considering how many folks just recognize them more. I'm an adult and all my adult friends just have played or recognize Kirby from his earlier works. They just never played much after because it just never appealed or trumped getting Mario or Zelda. Kirby just hasn't had the same appeal to long time gamers since. I mean I love the new works too but until Forgotten Land, most previous games felt like similar experiences to the earlier works but just with some touch ups which is fine but it's not getting that same long time gamer to run to the store to buy it. Meanwhile Forgotten Land came out and all these friends were legit considering buying it, playing it, and straight up loved it. Ppl just wanted Kirby to feel like a big hardware release again. This is something Kirby fans do not want to contend with. The reality that Kirby's appeal with more casual fans extends to the titles that either were a hardware essential like Dreamland on Gameboy, Adventure on NES, or pushed the gameplay more with evolutions to abilities or more demnsion like with KSS and Forgotten Land. That's not to say there shouldn't be more modern rep. There are enough fans of the later games and Return to Dreamland in particular is quite popular in Japan. I'd love more rep but I also get him just paying attention to big game rep from massive titles like Final Fatasy or Kingdom Hearts. It's just WAY bigger gets for Smash Bros.
@@GamingRedBirb Kirby isn't the only series that does this. As someone knows about Kingdom Hearts, Sora in Smash is reduced to only KH 1 references, with the side special coming from Dream Drop Distance.This is a good thing, because a full KH 2 moveset would make Sora broken in Smash. So maybe Sakurai wants to keep the references to the modern Kirby games to a minimum to make sure that the Kirby characters are balanced?????
@@orangeslash1667 the problem is though that kirby kinda lacks representation as a whole in smash, and its not like adding some more copy abilities to kirby's moveset would suddenly make him broken
@@GamingRedBirb Wrong Kirby characters are so powerful that they made it to the top of Alax's Canonical Tier list ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QGOjs7Z-pws.html. Sakurai usually simplifies characters that are too powerful.
What a well made video! Your knowledge of smash and Kirby is really polished and you've done amazing at looking at both sides. A couple of things that I wanted to mention however... First, I'm not sure you could say Meta Knight's Drill Rush is exactly based on Master. I myself always considered it simply a fusion of Sword and Wing's respective dash attacks. (Though I understand that the reference is loose either way) Second, I was also upset about the random image for the Halberd spirit, but it's actually a reused render from Kirby GCN. Third, I just wanted to go into further detail about the canceled scene from Subspace. It starts with Meta Knight piloting his Halberd when it is attacked by Tabuu and the subspace army. Meta Knight is winning until King Dedede attacks the Halberd (for unknown reasons). Now that Meta Knight is overwhelmed he is forced to flee his ship. King Dedede is now left with the subspace army when he notices something... Tabuu can use a shockwave attack that OHKOs everyone. With this in mind he then devises a plan to make medals that resurrect a trophy. King Dedede then flees the Halberd as well. This one scene literally explains the entire story.
1. Yeah I'm also not 100% convince MK's Side B comes from Master but both attacks look very similar and they are both called "Drill rush" so I felt it was worth noting 2. I didn't know that! Would you perhaps have a source so I can put it in pinned message? 3. wow... That scene explains almost every inconsistency in the plot... Glad you liked the video! I have a lot of Kirby knowledge but for Smash, while I know more of the competitive side, I have to give credit to the Smash Wiki so I would recommend that if you want some more spicy Smash knowledge
To be honest I think that although Sakurai clearly loves the characters he created (you can see that in the games quite well), he only wants to represent them in the way HE intended, which is often very differeent from how they appear in modern games. For example the two main gameplay references to games he didnt work on are Dedede's and Kirby's final smash, and while the former is very good the latter is far from perfect: in krtdl the ultra sword changes shape every time you use it but in ssbu it always stays the same while you are using it on an opponent, this is such a crucial detail I still cant believe it was left behind. Other characters got a much MUCH better treatment when it comes to their final smash, just look at Joker. Also another example is how the abilities shown in the trophies look like their anime version rather than the one from recent games. However Sakurai really nailed it when it comes to Dedede's personality, which is simply superior to the one from the kirby games, especially when compared to Star Allies and Fighters 2 where he just seems... souless. Luckily in Forgotten Land we got another design inspired by the one from kirby 64 which is pretty promising, although it still doesnt have well defined personality (we only know that he is very lazy but would risk his life to save one of his minions). Absolutely amazing video btw!
Thats not such a bad thing. This just anyone who has ever created an OC lol we get it. Tbh I don't entirely believe this because if he felt that way he wouldn't have left HAL. After he was general director he was already helping folks doing their own thing with Kirby before leaving to expand his own horizons. He also stated in an interview that he was thrilled that many different creatives would probably love to do their own thing with Kirby because of the versatility of his design. I just think Smash is the one place Sakurai can play a little with his creations and have some fun along with the grueling workload he has to deal with. Honestly I'm fine with him having the opportunity to enjoy his creation for the couple moments in Smash that he does let lose like with the weird Marx boss fight and Halberd.
I will say that Dedede’s final smash is lacking another crucial detail in Bandanna Waddle Dee’s non-appearance in the background. Also, I don’t think Dedede is that Soul-less in the games is he? At worst he’s a totally normal bland king figure, and at best, we can really see his passion whenever we fight him. His relationship with Meta Knight is also given quite a glint of life in the KF2 end credits. He’s definitely not as quirky and loveable as he is in smash though, that’s for sure.
I agree that the personality of Dedede is better in smash and that the Ultra Sword is laking the changing weapons but I disagree about Dedede being Souless in the Kirby games, I think Triple Deluxe and Fighters 2 are good examples of that. Also the copy abilities use their RtDl design like I mention in the video so that's at least something. really cool seeing giant comments like this that take the original video and add in their own way, also thanks for liking it!
@@SonicoVT oh my bad, I didnt explain myself properly: with the term "soulless" when I talked about Dedede's appearence in Star Allies and Fighters 2 I was referring exclusively to his design His facial expressions in this two games are pretty bland in my opinion and he barely reacts to what's happening around him, kinda like an npc from gta v; this is easily noticeable if compared to how he appears in other games As for the copy abilities I was wrong, they use the rtdl design just as you said
I also though that at first but the moves he does are pretty different with the biggest diference being that in ultimate he sends you sideways instead of down so I didn't count it, still interesting to think about
@@SonicoVT wouldn't it make more sense in Smash tho to send a character off screen rather then back down to the stage? Just curious if it's more a change to accommodate smash gameplay
@@SonicoVT I guess so but sending ppl off stage seems better in Smash for kills but maybe those smashes are super strong too. Tbh I don't play with final smashes much so not sure what are the good ones.
not sure if its a case of newer kirby games referencing smash or smash referencing kirby, but his arials do havecounterparts. fair is spin kick, bair is double kick, and up air is moon somersault kick.
My main complain is Kirby's moveset. His moveset should be more akin to Megaman's, incorporating multiple copy abilities instead of the generic kicks Kirby does. And not just copy abilities but other aspects of Kirby to make him feel more like himself but at the same time not too different to how he fights to not alienate people used to his kit And it would work so easily Like beam for side tilt His slide for down tilt Staff for up tilt Plasma spark for down smash Uppercut fighter move for up smash Ice breath spin for nair Tornado spin kick for dair Sword slash for up air His fair could be blowing an air shoot Final Smash should be either Hyper Nova Kirby or Crash Kirby (unless Crash makes it to smash so to not confuse people) Everything else can stay the same pretty much
While i think theirs room for improvment i feel like how much of a problem it is gets overblown and its in a better state than most series in smash. Kirby as a franchise reuses stuff constantly. From enemies to power ups stuff from the early games appear consistently throughout the series over and over again and the trio of kirby dedede and metaknight apear in practically every game in the series. A crossover will generally focus on the most iconic and reoccuring elements for the series and thats what we got for kirby. If people didnt know about Sakurai lore I dont think this would even be noticed much at all the kirby franchise is one of the most static on the roster so whats its got reps it pretty well
Dedede having the badges that free fighters from their statues makes more sense than you might think in my opinion. Dedede has been shown, in the Kirby franchise, to always be one of the first people to jump on a problem to work out a solution. He sealed away Nightmare, trapped Dark Nebula, immediately started a (failed) counter offensive against the Haltmann invasion, and was also a key player in the defeats of Magolor, Queen Sectonia, and 02. The only reason we don't see more from him imo is because he keeps getting his mind hijacked. Him making those badges is not super out there. I do wish they had shown off him seeing something weird going on with Master Hand early, and starting on the badges then, but there are bigger complaints to be had with smash in general, aside from one game's plot holes.
I'll defend Dedede and Meta Knights SSE portrayals because they are 100% accurate to the characters they were and still are at that Time. Dedede being a Secret Hero is completely accurate, and him still butting heads with Kirby made Perfect sense since this came out right before Revenge of the King, Kirby and DDD still butted heads many times despite being rivals, like when Dedede took Kirbys crystal shard, or when Kirby thinks DDD Stole his Cake, and the two arent the best at communicating, so it makes sense Kirby would try and stop Dedede from seemingly kidnapping people. Kirby himself is pretty accurate, dude is Powerful, but INCREDIBLY Stupid at times, Like how he essentially goes on an Anti hero-esq route in Squeak Squad by rampaging through Dream Land for Cake, even Meta Knights inclusion is less of him trying to Stop kirby from getting Cake, and more him Trying to stop Kirby from unleashing evil. Meta Knight is perfectly portrayed on both sides. What he does in SSE makes total sense regardless of what Game hes from EXCEPT For shockingly: Super Star! Though even then, He did it to stop Dream Land from letting threats constantly strike. Hes trying to stop his Own Ship from being used for Evil, And while he isn't full of References to his games, I like that his personality is! Hes trying to find Foes worthy of making him stronger! exactly like Meta Knightmare Ultra! While there aren't alot of acknowledgement of the Modern Day Kirby, other than Bandana Dee being essentially the new Ridley, i think the characters are Accurate to their current selves!
well to be fair, i think it just so happens that, the most iconic elements of the series, that have been there since the beginning, are from games Sakurai work on. But yeah ofc i cannot say there isn't a slight bias.
I don't really think he hates modern kirby all that much, but I doubt anyone wants to actually bother changing what they've already done. Same with Sonic in smash, was rushed and never fixed. But I think some changes should really be made because 4 points that affect gameplay is crazy
I feel like the fact Sakurai doesn’t add modern games/game he didn’t direct hurts kirby in Nintendo spaces especially in smash spaces. Most smash fans don’t play other games besides smash and Sakurai not added references to games outside of his own games makes Kirby seem like a small franchise and hurts it in the long run. Before FL came out I only ever seen Kirby fans talk about modern Kirby games and non Sakurai games while a ton of Nintendo fans talk about dreamland, adventure, super stars but not the modern games besides maybe RTLD. I feel like if Sakurai added more refs to other games it would give them the spotlight they needed to be recognized. If I’m being honest I’m kinda jealous and upset a lot of other big franchises have more games represented while kirby is stuck with four games since brawl. I’m tired of smash fans arguing with Kirby fans saying their rep is good enough or how other franchises have it worse. I know other franchises have it even worse then Kirby dose but those franchises with bad rep are either bad franchises, not first or second party or isn’t successful or popular. Kirby is a Active, successful and a popular series that’s also second party. Just like Pokémon which oddly enough is a second party, is super Active, successful and weirdly enough also came from the gameboy. I’m tired of other first ot second parties who are successful and active like Kirby getting more attention, rep, characters whole kirby is stuck with the same four games. At least give us bandee. :/ But I feel like with forgotten land I think more Nintendo fans will realized how under represented Kirby is outside is Sakurai games. I did remember seeing a article back in the brawl days in why Sakurai won’t add rep form other non Sakurai games, he said something about how he doesn’t want to play the other games thinking they would be better, but I can’t find the article so take that with a grain of salt if you can find it.
Absolutely yes! *Some* Smash fans only judge series depending on how they see them in smash, just look at Fire Emblem or Xenoblade for example, and Kirby is losing a lot of marketing potential by being less represented
I disagree. Lol what hurts those games is that they don't push the hardware or stand out in the franchise. They mostly just appeal to long time Kirby fans looking for more of the same. Sakurai can NOT be blamed for ppl not wanting to throw down money on the same RtDL style experiences for 4 entries!!! If it weren't for Kamiyama and Kumazaki finally doing a different looking 3D game, ppl would still be sleeping on Kirby. Kirby and the Forgotten Land has been selling amazing and reviewed well! NO SMASH ADVERTISING NEEDED. It was finally what ppl have been wanting from Kirby for years. I find it funny that Kirby fans would blame a guy not working on Kirby anymore for its lack of appeal rather than the ppl whose job it HAS been for awhile now on rejuvenating the franchise. The ppl who actually own Kirby, HAL!!!
@@MegaKirbySuperstar Kirby isn't the only series that does this. As someone knows about Kingdom Hearts, Sora in Smash is reduced to only KH 1 references, with the side special coming from Dream Drop Distance.This is a good thing, because a full KH 2 moveset would make Sora broken in Smash. So maybe Sakurai wants to keep the references to the modern Kirby games to a minimum to make sure that the Kirby characters are balanced?????
hell, kirby just straight-up has cellphones in 64 and amazing mirror. why not rework his moveset to let the player swap between him and ribbon? could play into the ultimate campaign, too. kirby whips out the cellphone after landing on the overhanging cliff and calls in ribbon to help him turn galeem into an oversized golf ball.
This has probably been said already, but I think Kirby's Fair is based off of Fighter Kirby's regular air attack in Amazing Mirror. It looks very similar in my opinion. There he performs 3 kicks in quick succession as well, it also happens when you just hold forward without running and then attack. Kirby's up Smash may also be based off of Fighter's dash attack from that game,
This is a really interesting question because the answer we get is a result of a biased view of Kirby dependant on only one of his three Directors, we're seeing one specific take on the Kirby Universe as a whole. TLDR, SAKURAI's Kirby is perfectly represented in Smash. Kumazaki's Kirby, Shimomura's Kirby, and Sakurai's Kirby are three entirely different Kirbys, and while they do have some overlap, they're always going to be different because no two Directors think alike. They each have different visions for the series, and while Smash is evolving alongside Kirby's current Modern Era, this is Sakurai's world, so we're obviously going to see Kirby through the eyes of Sakurai. That's not to say there's a 'right' answer to which Director's vision you gotta believe in, the beauty of Kirby is that you can experience all three of these separate ideas and have your own understandings and opinions about what Kirby is to you while also seeing what Kirby is to all 3 Directors we've had across the series. I'd say Sakurai's Kirby is portrayed excellently in Smash, from Kirby's playful yet serious when the situation calls for it nature, Dedede being an anti-hero at worst and straight up protagonist at best, and Meta Knight following his own plan, but still being devoted to his core ideas of being a justice-loving swordsman. You can tell that Super Star is Sakurai's Swan Song and always will be, and because I'm a huge fan of Super Star, I can love it and make it a large part of my understanding and viewpoint of the series. (Also, more vids like this and my life is yours. I love it when people get in-depth about this little pink puff!)
The characters in Brawl are toy replicas. Tbh I love the sse depictions. They are on point. Kirby is young and brash, dedede isn't the bad guy and actually cares and mk is mk lol
@@SonicoVT also I dunno how I feel about general enemies only being called Sakurai rep when they are in all the modern games as well. They all return because they are staples. We wouldn't say Goombas are only old Miyamoto rep. Nah they are in all the Mario games. They are just Mario rep.
@@MegaKirbySuperstar it’s sort of caused by this hyper-tense focus on the fact that newer Kirby icons and references are very scarce, with many of the models of recurring enemies in smash being completely original or outdated.
@@ToxicPea I suppose but their presense seems like general Kirby rep. I guess I'm not entirely concerned with the models so much as yeah its Bonkers and Bonkers is in everything so yeah that's cool. I get wanting more rep but I wasn't too bothered by seeing Waddle Dees and such again since they are so intrigal to the franchise. I get ppl being into seeing ANYTHING tho but it's real particular stuff to bother me personally. I get it but it's real particular
the mechanical hammer in smash may come from the cancelled gamecube kirby game that sakurai apparently worked on that became kirby's return to dreamland, smash brawl famously uses models from the cancelled game in the trophys
Interesting theory, but there is no proof (that I could find) of that being the case but I wouldn't be surprise if we one day find out that was the case
You know, I always think that Sakurai barely thinks about owning kirby or cares about him. I mean, he was added later after the first smash 64 prototype with nintendo characters, when he could easily been the first one, he left the kirby series in 2004 because he was finished with the series, and besides smash, Sakurai doesn't really appreciate kirby, like at all. Dont get me wrong, that doesn't mean Smash is bad and Sakurai should just do kirby, but it shows that Sakurai's "Biases" for kirby (in my opinion) aren't really true. So, what I'm saying is that Sakurai should include more kirby in the next smash, and make new Kirby game, if he can.
I think Meta Knight’s rapid A combo is a reference to Sword Kirby’s Multisword Attack from Kirby and the Amazing Mirror but that might actually be a stretch. Just noticed it is the most similar in comparison and I think the jet hammer is more of a reference to the cancelled Kirby game for the GCN which I now how bizarre it is to say that a move is a reference to a cancelled game but there were a couple models from the cancelled Kirby game that were reused in the trophy gallery so who knows. Of course the jet hammer is reused in Superstar Ultra but it is a thought but at the same time… yea, doesn’t excuse the design of the jet hammer in Smash, in fact, it makes things a bit more baffling… though his final smash in ultimate is amazing.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I just wanted to say I think Metroid is misrepresented a TON. It's mostly due to Metroid Other M being the most recent game before smash 4, and the models being based off of that garbage. Ultimate sadly reused those models even though they could have gone with the most recent Samus Returns style, which in my opinion is the definitive Samus model, or even gone back to the Prime style in Brawl. We have Dark Samus to represent the good Metroid even if normal Samus is from Other M, but it really hurts to see Other M be acknowledged at all honestly since the game doesn't represent real Metroid. Also a lot of the music is from Other M or things like Federation force. Pretty disappointing for Metroid fans but at least we got Ridley and Dark Samus.
@@SonicoVT Yeah, the lack of Metroid in the past decade is probably one of the main reasons. Usually the series with the most recent releases and attention get the content. By the time Smash 6 releases, we'll have Dread, Prime 4, and who knows? Maybe Metroid 6. Metroid will no longer be a series of the past, and so we can hope it will get some love.
Actually I think Byleth is ironically quite good. Much better than the other Fire Emblem characters when it comes to representing a franchise. I think they missed out on giving him/her the crest of flames healing attribute, or allowing him/her to use white magic and grappling like in the games.
