Is the problem that some Star Wars fans don’t understand or care about the "story" of Star Wars? 

Because imo the world and lore is a mess

Exactly other than animated shows made by Dave filoni, none of Disney Star Wars has contributed to the lore of the Star Wars universe

I agree with your assessment regarding the post Disney fandom, but I disagree that the pre Disney fandom care about the lore and world. Many of them don't even understand or know the lore. We all see SW as we want it.

@@Redrgon25 then how does the fandom even exist if everyone is viewing so differently? I despise the prequel films. Other love them more than the OT. How can we both call ourselves star wars fans at that point when we like different parts of star wars so much? If you only like EP 1-6 but hate EP 7-9 how can you be a fan while at the same time someone likes EP 1-9? At some point the fandom is too big AND TOO DIVERSE and can't please everyone.

@@Thed538dhsk Because all of it is still SW.

Borderline? It IS genius.

This and the Darth Bane trilogy are my most listened to books on audible. There’s just something so compelling about hearing a story from the point of view of the “bad guy” Honestly James Luceno is the only author I would trust to write a novel about Dooku, as a sort of sequel to the Darth Plagueis novel. And while it’s not as good as Darth Plagueis, I really enjoyed the Tarkin novel that he wrote as part of the new canon.

Literally the only writer (other than Frank Herbert) whose novel kept me awake until i realized that it's 5.00 AM in the morning.

It makes me mad he was forced to conform to TCW's retcons, though. DATHOMIR DOES NOT HAVE SPACEPORTS.

​@@saberiandream316 I didn't even know that. All I knew was that it was blockaded Post-RotS by Palpatine because he understood the potential danger of letting agents of the various Nightsister clans roam the galaxy.

Pretty much. For them, the superficial stuff makes it Star Wars.

This also depends on your definition of casual and even then it varies from person to person. For most "casuals" it's about the hero's journey, the characters, the action, and to a certain degree about the world building (even if it mostly is on the level of "hey cool world". Disney Star Wars is failing because the "casuals" get nothing out of it. No characters or character building, not a cool world and mostly really bad action.

Doubtful. The 6 films are stories in their own right that were made to not need Explanatory Universes. Legends is a separate universe that completely retcons a lot of the things the films imply for the purposes of some other story, so you basically have to tell them things aren't as they seem because Traviss or Karpyshyn or Anderson or someone else said so.

@@mpnuorva A large portion of the EU was created between the OT and PT (or during the PT) and so only had whichever existing movies were available at the time to provide a foundation. When Lucas made the active decision to create the prequels (and to pilot new technology with the OT Special Editions) in the 90s, he set a rule that new products (used to build up market recognition and expectation) would tell stories that fit together in a shared universe. (Marvel Star Wars and Splinter of the Mind’s Eye were considered as canon as the Holiday Special, and so were ignored.) Timothy Zahn was the launch point of the new Expanded Universe with the original Thrawn trilogy, years before Lucas overrode the presentation of cloning and the Clone Wars with AOTC, and the stories adapted after each new installment of the PT.

I feel it's the opposite. Those who just care about lightsabers hitting each other dislike the show. And those who understand the themes of the OT and the PT are fine with the show. Then a 3rd group of the lore masters are having brain aneurysms from this show

Who do you feel actually likes star wars and doesn't?

Exactly Star Wars is so much more than just a platform it is pure escapism and they took that away. But the EU and the real Star Wars will always serve that purpose

​@@Thed538dhsk If you ask someone what they like about Star Wars and their answer is current day problem, that is a pretty safe bet to say they don't actually like Star Wars

@@AndreNitroX what do you consider the real star wars?

@@Ihavethetouch what do you like about star wars?

Why did it grate you?

​@@Thed538dhsk Because if the story doesn't follow the rules of the universe it's set in, it's a bad story. Just because you don't care about the plot holes doesn't mean they don't exist

@@Ihavethetouch I agree that just because you don't care about a plot hole doesn't it means it exists. But I think like a sith you are using an absolute. If someone dies care about a plot hole, it doesn't automatically mean they feel it does exist. It can simply mean what you said "YOU DON'T CARE" about the plot hole. In a new hope why doesn't obi try to use Jedi mind trick on Vader? That's a plot hole thats exists. People do 1 of 2 things about this plot hole. Option 1: ignore it. It doesn't matter to them and they don't care. It still exists but they just don't care. Option 2: Rationalize. People make up in their heads that it wouldn't have worked anyway and somehow obi knows this despite in the film that not being canon officially especially for the 20-ish years before a phantom menace was even made. So why does it bother you if someone simply doesn't care about a plot hole?

​@@Thed538dhskWhy would Obi-Wan try to use mindtrick on Vader? He used it on random stormtrooper and obviously Vader is above that. Or course I admit there are movies/games/etc where I'm too entertained to mind plot holes, but if someone points one out to me I'll admit it.

I’m tired of the “it’s from a book or comic” nonsense. I don’t care about the DLC content for Star Wars.

Neither did Lucas

It’s nothing personal but standards should be extremely high to become a writer in entertainment, because it seems to me they just hire any wannabe writer these days

@@AndreNitroX lots of nepotism and who you know but Hollywood has literally always been like this

​@@Thed538dhskthats a dumb statement he understood it fully..he created it he is the only one that fully gets it cause it came from his mind and all the star wars he created made sense and went with each other unlike disney star wars your not ok in the head he may not be the best writer but he made the universe on which we all love ❤❤ so get it together

​@@AndreNitroXthey hire activist not writers

Yes this is why I love Thor. He feels genuine and doesn’t give in to the two extremes

Agree 100% with you. Such a great summation of what I think SW is and should be, rather than the mixed up or wishy-washy morals the show seems to be suggesting, as Thor said. Lord I hope he is wrong, but I'm afraid he is right.

Agreed. I have a neutral opinion on the show, but it's nice to see someone breakdown it's core problems and why most fans dislike it. I think very few people would have issue with this show if it was set in any other sci-fi universe

That's what the motto was for the first star wars film. He did tell the actors to hold on. A new hope or as it was originally called, Star Wars was saved in the edit

They had the script and knew what it would be going in they just didn’t know what it would look like because it is impossible to know what a finished film looks like. This is something that has been 90% bad so far so who cares if it has a good ending when the path to get there is awful.

"Wait for it to pick up" is what I keep being told about TCW as well, and I just don't have the time to waste on art I don't enjoy.

@@AJadedLizard The thing with Clone Wars is you can skip episodes you don't like and watch the episodes you do like since there are only a few relevant arcs are the Maul's return (season 4 finale), Maul takes Mandalore (second to last are of season 4) Ahsoka is framed arc (season 5 finale), and the Clone Conspiracy arc (season 6 premier) are all you need to see to have season 7 finale make sense If you skip the first 5 episodes of the Acolyte then the last 3 will make no sense but if you skip the first two seasons of Clone Wars (what I am told are the weaker seasons but I love them all) seasons 3 to seven make total sense and what doesn't can easily be guessed since the only kind of relevant arc in there is the season 2 Mandalore arc which helps put later season events into greater context.

Yup its the "defund the police" generation

​@@Hanoua2wdym? The hippies back in the 1960's were for fighting the "man" or anti-authority and anti-police.

Isn't that just called self defense? If I stop you from posting your comment with force or violence don't you have a right to resist my attack with equal force or violence?

Trying to justify negative behavior in fiction because it’s relatable in modern times is scary

This is literally a sith idea. If you are a being of pure passion then you would find any rules as a prison. Let's not forget that he is supposed to be a Villian in the story

I don't trust disney Lucas film with it.

Hell no, imagine how much of a girl boss Zannah would have been

I hope Disney forgets how to read before then.

@@Ihavethetouchshe already was but not because it was pandering, because she genuinely was creative and cunning and dangerous. They wouldn’t have had to do any work except basically translate it page for page from the books (which admittedly is all they needed to do for the sequels as well). The chick succeeded her master to become a Sith Master, that’s the definition of girlboss even if the concept has been butchered by culture wars in recent years

Imagine Disney writing a definitive end to that battle between Master and Apprentice and all the... Modern day allegories they could make with that. I think I'm perfectly content for this to remain untouched.

Lucasfilm has always had a petty vendetta against the EU and EU fans from day one after George left. That's never going to change anytime soon.

Actor David Harewood may be playing DarthPlagueis

Instead we get Darth Obvious

@@saberiandream316the sticks in the mud (not everyone at Lucasfilm) didn’t like the books even before the prequels came out , EU was always good lore it just competes with Lucasfilm, so I feel like they are threatened by that

That’s why I love thor, he’s very coolheaded and gives credit where credit is do but is not afraid to criticize

Star Wars hate baiters you mean,just the thing Thor has become. Theres so much to take from the show and they only focus on comparing it to things that are not even canon.

@@skywalkersbutido6375I don’t think there is a way to dislike the show and dislike it without you labeling as “hate baiting”. He gave it far more of a chance than most potential viewers did.

​@@ian-flanaganyeah Thor is not too bad. He can be at times but he never seems as blinded by hatred as other channels

Thor is certainly more grounded than most youtubers i'm seeing. But still i think he is going out of the way to criticize this show. I don't think the show is good. But he is overtheorizing on this plot hole of Kid Adi Mundi and Sith being revealed before the time while Kid Adi mundi hasn't even learned the "facts" in the series.

And even if they think it's some Dark Jedi and try to cover it up, it still doesn't explain why the Order doesn't train Padawans to do proper lightsaber combat and how to fight in real battles.

A true Sith would still follow a particular creed (including, at this point, the Rule of Two, as Yoda pointed out in TPM) that can be examined against a claimant's actions and words. SIth is not a general term for "Dark Side user" just as Jedi is not the general term for "Light Side user". No known living Jedi would have personal experience with the Sith, but the Archives would have full records of what was known from the past. It is reasonable to speculate that the Council could review everything that is happening in the show and determine that Qimir was not a true Sith, in the absence of revelation for how Qimir trained and built his "Stranger" persona.

This is just like Rogue One was a movie without Jedi. Just because Chirrut doesn't use lightsaber doesn't mean he isn't pretty much the same as Jedi

Even if it's a pretender, that's still not going to raise some questions about how this single guy was able to fight so many Jedi at a time? No one is going to wonder why near half a dozen Jedi just...disappeared? No one even might consider the possibility that this Force User may have some ties to the Sith in some fashion, even if he isn't one? Also them not telling the Council because they would "tell the Senate" is completely dumb as an argument, considering that the Council is under no obligation to tell the Senate anything. This is a Jedi Order matter, it's not a Senate or Galactic Republic matter. To add on, the Council was hiding from the Senate that there was apparently an Army....for the Republic to quote Yoda and Windu from AoTC. "Blind we are if creation of this Clone Army we could not see." "I think it's time we inform the Senate that our ability to use The Force has diminished." "Only the Dark Lord of the Sith, knows our weakness. If inform the Senate, multiply our adversaries will." ....So let's understand this....the Jedi Council in the PT, won't just go and inform the Senate that "hey we couldn't see this creation of a Clone Army, made to fight for the Republic." But they'll apparently according to The Acolyte, would go and inform the Senate that there's some Dark Force User running around, even though this wouldn't be something that they would have to tell the Senate, because it has nothing to do with the Republic and more to do with the Jedi Order.

How does it break the lore? No one from the Jedi council knows this guy or the sith exist yet. They still feel this is a splinter Jedi order trying to compete with them which imo is more interesting

Both sidesism.

You do realize KotORII outright stated there's a Jedi-Sith pipeline in early 2000s and that has been both part of the lore and a beloved meme in the fandom since? And that wasn't Chris Avellone making shit up, but merely observing that Anderson and Karpyshyn had brought no less than three mass conversion events into the lore, one of which was explicitly about disgruntled former Jedi.

@@mpnuorva From what I understand about Kotor 2 is that it was fairly well written and it was more focused on the Force. Plus it is a game and does not need the same level of writing. Games were usually consider below books but above comics in the cannon ranking. On screen live action is the strongest level of cannon with films above TV/Streaming. The Acolyte is a mangled version of this trope. The show should be better written than a game.

@@mpnuorva Give me info about 3 mass conversion events.

@@MrSpajserthe times I can think of when a bunch of Jedi fell to the dark side as a group are the first and second great schisms the ones with the legions of Lettow and Ajunta Pall and his group going on to become sith both groups were doing experiments with life itself and creating monsters so the Jedi saying don’t do that makes sense. The next mass schism was the Revanchist movement led by Revan and it’s not like they all immediately descended to the dark side. They were corrupted by the Mandalorian war and starting to use the Mandalorians same tactics against them. The final large group of Jedi falling were the initial ones that left with that one Sith phanius and who started the new Sith wars that lasted a thousand years. But that was only like twenty masters it wasn’t a huge chunk of the entire order. So I don’t get what this guy is acting like the Jedi just create Sith. A few Jedi always get full of themselves the wiser smarter Jedi say don’t do that you’ll become evil and then the arrogant ones don’t listen and guess what become evil. The Jedi don’t create Sith. While many Sith were Jedi there is no teachings or actions of the Jedi that create Sith they actively try and stop them from falling

And regardless instead of dismissing him they would take what Qui-Gon said as a serious matter since Qimir killed 8 jedi

@@averythehawk Exactly, they would have known even a 'fake Sith' could be deadly. The Acolyte events would change everything downstream of it, one way or another, and it would be quite a cover-up to hide all the dead Jedi. I think Thor is right about the 'red spores theory' which they might use to explain it all. In fact, they could claim that Sol went nuts and killed all of them. He returns to Coruscant with Mae, who is pretending to be Osha, and as soon as they land, she goes to the council and tells them Sol went crazy and killed everyone and somehow she survived and he brought her back with him. Sol of course refutes that, but with the poor story-line of this series, the council believes Mae (or there is a conspiracy to cover up everything quickly by blaming someone) and Sol is tried and executed for murder. Mae then has killed a Jedi without a weapon. Sounds hokey, but this could be the insane direction this series goes. I sure hope not, though!

​@@LumVaughan Long post and probably won't get looked at but personally I don't like the show but I have a few fixes that would've made it easier to like it. Set it over 1,000 years before phantom menace. Instead of the twins being born from the force let the witches be adoptive parents to them. Like the planet they're on maybe they are persecuted and blamed for things out of there control simply due to them being witches. Have the twins bio family attacked by a young Qimir completing his last test to become sith, the witches step in trying to save them and fail but find the twins and maybe they have a line about the thread is pulling them together and they adopt the twins showing they aren't evil. Now when the jedi show up to recruit the twins still have basically the same course of events but maybe Osha wants to go with the jedi so she can explore and see the galaxy. When Mae confronts her she force pushes her away into the room (remember Osha isn't good at blocking) and then locks the door, instead of burning the journal she simply sets it down and walks away but the wiring on the door she used to lock it sparks setting the journal on fire. Osha sees the fire and climbs out of a window and when she runs into Mae later the what did you do line from Osha is her blaming for the fire something we were shown is an accident. When they both fall have Mae see Osha also fall but doesn't see Sol save Osha, both twins think the other is dead. Mae survives and sees the witches dead from a lightsaber and so she blames the jedi starting her quest for revenge. Now present day most of the events still play out the same except Mae's mission of killing the jedi without weapons is her proving she is worthy to be sith and wield a lightsaber. When Osha and Mae meet the impact of it is much different maybe Mae goes to hug Osha and she recoils remembering the betrayal and also still blaming her for the witches death which she thinks is a result of the fire Mae accidentally set. Mae still escapes but begins questioning her mission and if it's really what she wants. Show us a flashback of the twins throughout the years with a bit of Mae's training and also that her master is manipulative, then on the flipside show Osha's training and how while her masters are patient they realize maybe being a jedi isn't for her. Now Mae decides to be with her sister because that's all she has left in the galaxy in which is a bit more believable, Qimir is betrayed but let's her go planning to follow her and get revenge. Mae goes to turn herself in but Osha explains why she doesn't trust Mae citing the fire saying you destroyed our home and then Mae counters with why she thinks the jedi are evil citing the lightsaber wounds on the witches and blaming them for their deaths. Before the jedi can answer Qimir show's up at Kalnaccas hut and Mae instead of flip-flopping, helps the jedi using Kalnaccas saber, jedi still die of course but give the main cast of jedi more time to be endearing to the audience so we actually care when then die. During the course of the fight with Qimir maybe from dodging a saber throw Mae's hair is cut. Qimir ends the fight by using the stunner to knock out Osha and Sol and then force pushes Mae off the cliff, he then kidnaps Osha as leverage to use against Mae. Mae recovers and realizes what happened, finds Sol and instead of parent trap he senses her intentions are pure which is to save her sister something he is partly responsible for as he brought her there. Mae still thinks the jedi are evil but through the course of forming an alliance to save her sister she sees that they are peacekeepers maybe a bit naive but well meaning and kind even having Sol say things aren't always black and white there are shades of grey like their current situation. When the catch up to confront Qimir have him beat Sol using his anger at him having killed his fellow jedi against him. Before he kills him Mae steps in and save him leading to Qimir having a monologue about when he was Mae's age he was a better student and talking about his final test he name drops the planet the twins are from and how his test was to kill this family the twins realize he is responsible for their bio families death he then also let's it slip he's responsible for killing the witches. He goes to force push Mae but Osha realizing her sister isn't responsible for the deaths of the coven and that the love she feels for her is genuine steps in and successfully blocks the push. The twins team up using a combo of lightsaber and force abilities in a fight to rival phantom. The twins succeed and both stab Qimir, maybe he has a line about being the last true sith which they think he means is the last sith in the galaxy, but what he really means and is the from his point of view hiding in the shadows isn't what real sith do. Maybe an earlier episode he admonishes Mae for being too sneaky in one of her kills saying it lacked honor or something and she counters that pretty soon that's all they''ll be able to do as the jedi are closing in and eliminating the sith. This leads to the jedi thinking the sith are extinct. Final scene of the show the twins are at a funeral held by Sol for the jedi killed by Qimir. He offers both twins a place in the order saying Mae has redeemed herself and Osha has unlocked her potential, they decline realizing they can do more by walking a line between light and dark saying the galaxy is full of shades of grey. Would this still have pacing issues probably, but it would at least be a much more coherent plot to follow.

@@averythehawk I like your version much better, it is far more balanced and logical and seems like it would fit the SW universe much better. If Lucasfilm would only let some of us true fans give them ideas....

I'd much rather see fan animators like WilkinsAnimations visually bring the Darth Bane novels to life, lol.

No. KotOR remains the only one that didn't botch the Sith, everything else is built on Karpyshyn's silly notion of the Dark Side forming cultures and missing how the Rule fo Two works. Fun fact: Lucas telling the people planning NJO otherwise is the reason we got Yuuzhan Vong instead of extragalctic darksiders.

@@mpnuorva Karpyshyn is literally the one responsible for fleshing out the Sith philosophy in KOTOR. And the Rule of Two makes the most sense BECAUSE Karpyshyn devoted an entire trilogy to it. And sentient beings DO form cultures from the dark side. That's how evil societies come to being.

There is an entire sith empire that could lead to game of thrones level stories but Disney is too stupid to use it

Old Republic is dead thanks to Lucasfilm. It's been dead ten years and they want you to move on from the EU, not to fight for it.

actually it was smart to put him in because we can blame him for the hubris of the Jedi without blaming the entire Jedi Order and making them out to be the bad guys.

@@mkhud50n except that he used to be a cool character that I liked and that line of thinking ruins his character.

@@FabuBrik I get that. Not saying he’s entirely bad. Nobody is perfect. I kinda like him too.

​@@FabuBrik A cool character? What did he ever do other than have 5 wives?

@@thedude925 Nothing really extraordinary. Just for me personally all of the prequel jedi and council were cool to me and nostalgia mostly.

You are a bold one.

If TCW were being produced by modern Lucasfilm, Anakin would've encountered Grievous in the series and you'd be a toxic complainer ruining Star wars if you took issue with that.

It hurts that the idiot writers for the acolyte had a wealth of examples from the EU and they didn’t use or learn anything. Probably didn’t even read any of the novels

@@AndreNitroX Why you lie ? Headland read all Bane books, played KOTOR and so on. If not then you wouldnt get Qimir as Sith Lord, maybe Tenebrous at the end and cortosis armor.

Darth Bane was already wiped from existence thanks to TCW.

@@saberiandream316 Your point? He’s been dead long before TCW.

@@ThespianPrince13 TCW used a completely different version of Darth Bane. He doesn't even look the same.

To be fair some canon changes were actually good, most of the bad stuff in Star wars comes from the directors and writers we've had. The people in charge of the book side of Star Wars have been doing good.

@@mycelia_ow I'll grant you that. But still, the live action has been mostly miss.

@@mycelia_ow Changes such as?

Why there are still people that talks about Disney Star Wars like if anything was Obi-Wan? That is like if I say the EU was bad because some of their bad books/comics

@@VoiceOfTheEmperor Yeah Andor was really horrible, sure.

I totally agree with you. Everything that came after RotJ is kind of just a "What If..." story for me. (Tbh, there are minor things I don't even like about RotJ, but it got the important storylines right). Not even George Lucas was the same person 20+ years later when he made the PT. Nor were all the same people still around who had a hand in making the originals (Gary Kurtz, Joe Johnston, Ralph McQuarrie, etc.). Even the PT are very different movies from the originals. Everything is a product of its time, it's impossible to recreate. The OT will always be a cinematic masterpiece that blew the world away for me, let everyone else have their lightsaber porn and the next "Darth Whatever" Sith that Dave Filoni recycled. (People don't even know that Darth was actually just Vader's first name lol).

Legends was the entirety of the EU outside of the movies. That's the entirety of the Old Republic, and the New Republic eras.

If you’re looking for an epic sith story that will get you into the Expanded universe before Disney. Start with the Darth Bane trilogy

@@AndreNitroX Jedi Apprentice and Young Jedi Knights are also great.

While Legends/EU has its faults, it is waaaaaaay better than Disney "canon". My own fan-fic series takes place a long time after Luke reestablished the Jedi Order. Times have changed. They don't wear plain brown robes anymore. Droids are smooth and based on different kinds of animals or aliens. Force abilities have more variety based on the character. And there are other changes. If it's a different generation, things will be different. Plus, none of the antagonists are Sith (so far) but do represent corruption and darkness in their own ways. If I were in charge of Star Wars stories I would hire better writers than myself and do something like that.

I also appreciate that it indirectly explains one of the reasons the Jedi had heard of the Rule of Two: By leaving witnesses who lack any sort of credibility, rumors of the Sith's survival could be rationalized away as exaggerations. A complete lack of claimed sightings would be more suspicious than the occasional "tall tale," even if the Sith _were_ truly extinct.

It’s so good. Definitely my favourite. Does so much to flesh out the saga and world build.

Nope, that's Jedi Apprentice #8. The Day of Reckoning.

​@@saberiandream316 hmm, gonna have to look into this one. Also, did I just see you in the comments of Eckharts latest vid?

@@blackshogun272 Perhaps.

I personally don't like all these EU nods in Disney Star Wars that are engineered to trick people into thinking the setting of the EU remains intact, its history and world-building, when it very much is not.

@saberiandream316 I think that far too often, the EU nods are not truly there, but people want Disney stories to be at least passible that they attempt to read the EU into the new canon. Darth Bane is never mentioned in this show, neither were Plagueis or Tenebrous, nor any other Sith Lord, but people are speculating as to which one is currently in power. Simply put, none of them. This is Disney, and Disney is writing their own world without regard to any canon or lore from before. Not their own, not the EU, and certainly not anything from George Lucas.

it hurts their own idealogy of morality, so they can't have it. Even in a fictional world.

Before Disney, the dark side was pure nightmare fuel, even touching it could lead you down a self destructive path. In Disney “canon” it is treated as a yin Yang thing, complete fundamental misunderstanding

@@AndreNitroX exactly

@@AndreNitroX the more I think about it the more I believe it started with the concept of Vapaad, being able to use the dark side but not really so it's ok

@@TheEmperorsChampion964 That...would make a lot of sense, actually. Mace had the strength of will to be able to resist falling to the dark side, but as he was the only one _in the entire Jedi order_ at the time (as far as we know) we can conclude it's quite rare, something these new guys wouldn't have access to.

My moneys on it being one of the twins 🙄

And he's a Clawdite not a Muun or Cerean. Heh heh followed you here from SWT

Dude wtf LOL. HAVE U NOT SEEN EPISODE 3 WHEN HE DIES? DUMBEST THING U EVER SAID I EVER HEARD HERE BUT LOVE MY NERDS😂

@@richdiwz8183 exactly, he wasn’t expecting his apprentice to betray him during Order 66

@@captaindc3889 @richdiwz8183 I'm telling you, clawdite is the way to go with this. Palpy ended him that night he became chancellor, or at least he thought he did... Clawdite Plagueis never once let his apprentice know he wasn't a Muun, and after barely surviving Sidious' attack on him, he shifts to his Mundi identity permanently, plotting and scheming and trying to tip of the Jedi without exposing himself. He managed to plants seeds of doubt about the Chancellor in Windu's ear in confidence, but couldn't ever offer hard evidence, and then before he could take his revenge, he was betrayed again by his old apprentice during Order 66... Only the Galactic Marines who gunned Mundi down were ever aware of his true identity as he reverted back to his clawdite form upon death.

Well put! When people say Andor isn't "real Star Wars" I have to question what Star Wars they're talking about!! It's actually much more Star Wars than anything that has come after RotJ, including the Prequel Trilogy. If you think about it, the Original Trilogy didn't have a million Jedi/Sith running around, twirling multi-colored lightsabers, and DragonBall-Z Force powers. It was actually character driven and much more personal. The Force was subtle. Every other type of character far outnumbered the Jedi/Sith, including common people/aliens in all types of backwater planets. It's what made it feel like a real world. The galactic conflict was what was actually at stake! Not who wins the Jedi vs Sith battle. What is MORE Star Wars than Andor if it is the only thing that actually replicates the SW of the Original Trilogy?

I'm still diving into the EU. My favorites remain Jedi Apprentice and Young Jedi Knights.