Is the timing of the junior doctors' strike 'indefensible'? LBC debate 

How exactly do strikes impact the government?

​​@@chrisj9700 "inflationary" lol, but banker's bonuses aren't? whenever you go into a negotiation, you highball your demands and reach a mutually agreeable settlement. We've seen this with other sectors that have settled recently. Also, 35% isn't just a random number. It's how much their pay has been cut under the Tories.

@@hayleyxyz Their pay has not been cut.

@@chrisj9700that’s what the negotiations are for.

@@chrisj9700 Sunak said the 9% increase they received in July in line with the recommendations of the independent pay body was full and final and there would be no more talks no matter how many strikes they called.

@@taffyterriera real terms reduction IS a pay cut. Don’t be obtuse.

indeed

The scariest is Tom Swarbrick. He can not understand why anyone would want to own house. In other words it is beyond his comprehension that a person, in later life might want to ease their financial burden to make retirement more manageable. He has held phone in sessions on this seversl yet still this basic premise eludes him. Yet he was a Specisl Advisor to Theresa May.

@@davidsmith5523 Agreed, Tom Swarbrick is terrible too. They both sound rational with nice voices but they actually spout massive amounts of really unintelligent garbage a lot of the time.

The government doesn’t run the nhs they just fund it, the nhs decides working conditions, hours and wages.

Tory boy.. the government are responsible for a publicly funded service. Stop writing bull.​@unionjackjackson4352

​@@unionjackjackson4352 The NHS may decide wages and working conditions but it can't improve either without money which, as you rightly pointed out is controlled by the government. The fact that there is a huge shortage of healthcare workers and that hospitals are literally crumbling should tell you all you need to know about NHS funding.

@chrisj9700 that's coz labour are just like the tories... corporate owned and funded through lobbying

@@chrisj9700 I don't question that a huge reform is needed but one big problem is the shortage of workers. One big reason for that is that doctors and nurses get better pay and conditions in other countries and addressing that is much easier and quicker than reforming the whole NHS. Do that first and the strain will ease at least a little until the rest gets sorted.

They are striking to ensure the future of the NHS and prevent the need to recruit abroad. If doctors and nurses are paid like they are now then no new British workers will want the job.

“Because we are greedy” is the correct answer.

​@@chrisj9700 that's exactly why it's so important that the government are held to account and sort this out?

@@chrisj9700 Well get on the phone to your local MP and demand they push for a settlement that stops the strikes! No point complaining about it and not doing anything!

@@solentforest The government doesn’t run the nhs they just fund it, the nhs decides working conditions, hours and wages.

@@TheTwinn The government doesn’t run the nhs they just fund it, the nhs decides working conditions, hours and wages.

@@unionjackjackson4352 I mean, you can keep saying that till you're blue in the face, it doesn't make it true.

All of this is absolutely valid and true. But lazy journalists would rather just ask "Why strike now? Isn't that wrong? Don't you feel bad?", as doing real journalism to the degree that even you have takes much more research and insight than they care for

Very different in a lot of other industries. I've never met anyone selfish enough to 'go on strike'

This guy call himself a doctor? What a shame

​@@taffyterrier I think he's getting his point across in a less than optimilhm way and had some unfortunate ly phrased answers to pointed comments by the host But it doesn't change the fact that every day of the week the staffing crisis is happenning and if the news media covered the problem in line with how big it is having the host hearing about it and having some talk radio hours filled with chat about it would be laughably sparse coverage in comparrison. When the nurses and paramedics went of strike I k. Ow for a fact that in two regions at least their level of promised cover was actually greater than the normally staffed previous two weeks. How darkly humorous and insane is that? A normal shift can have staffing stretched so thin that managers jobs are doubled up and call centres are taking in requests for diminishing resources at painful levels... But when the staff want to strike to make their voices heard they are held to promises of staffing levels that see members on picket ready to return to work so they don't breach the safe agreed level Only for that staff member to return to a job that is seeong coverage that they would hope to see as the regular minimum... If only the bean counters weren't shaving the margins in order to make every penny stretch until it it sqeaks

​@@taffyterrierall year round he's a doctor yes👍

@@taffyterrieryou’ve got to be delusional if you’re unable to see the inherent goodness of Dr Bob Gill. I’d have him as my GP tomorrow. Time for you to grow up.

Doctors only care about money. Increased deaths are due to doctors negligence.

@@taffyterrier for their rich pals

You realise when you’re talking about the government, you’re meaning the NHS right?

@@lewismacdonald1516 NHS staff.

Doctor Dense

Other professions are welcome to strike. Myself and my friends support our nursing colleagues etc. however the BMA is a union that is for doctors, so can only organise doctors' strikes. I hope doctors get full pay restoration, and our colleagues follow suit.

@@TheJankerchief Pay restoration does not apply as doctors pay has not been cut.

@@taffyterrier imagine spending Christmas day on RU-vid complaining about doctors striking. What a sad little life to lead.

@@TheJankerchief Imagine overpaid doctors striking over Christmas and New Year putting the lives of vulnerable and elderly patients at risk in a cynical attempt to try and extort more money from long suffering British taxpayers. What a mean spirited little life to lead.

No one is forcing them to strike. GET BACK TO WORK !!!

NHS doctors are among the highest paid in Europe.

NHS doctors are among the highest paid in Europe but provide one of the worst services in a Europe.

@@taffyterrier NHS is the most underfunded across europe. After brixit NHS has worsened. No wonder doctors are leaving UK to other places for higer pay and better work arrangements and not constantly working like 90hours a week most of the weeks like here. I am sure PA's will look better after public health and do your major surgeries after 2 years of basic medical/science training and earn 30% more than most current junior doctors.

@@UnmaskedSociety The Blair government reduced junior doctors contracted hours from 100 to just 48 over 20 years ago so I don’t know where you got the 90 hours a week from. The average basic annual salary of a junior doctor is £55k - are PAs on £71,500 a year? Other countries can pick and choose and will select highly educated, properly trained doctors which excludes the vast majority of British medics and could explain why only a small percentage (< 5%) are leaving the UK to work abroad.

Doctors are overpaid.

Doctors are overpaid.

@@taffyterrier DIY.

@@danielreiss-cy4zr Ben wiped the floor with the overpaid doctor.

@@taffyterrier Ben was a valiant devil's advocate - I've admired him before - but no, he didn't win this round.

NHS doctors are among the highest paid in Europe but provide one of the worst services in Europe. British taxpayers are getting poor value for money.

His out his league

They really aren’t ffs 😂. They are unbelievably lefty

@@benward4538 The fact both of these comments exist actually prove LBC is impartial with presenters on the left and the right.

To be fair they have a range of presenters covering the whole spectrum i would say. Really depends on who's show it is

It's almost as if they take presenters with multiple different political viewpoints to have a broad number of views and discussions... Im a lefty voter and I know that

​@timstoddard3707 which presenter is demonstrably on the left? In what measurable way?

Doctors are working in the public sector, meaning the government get to manipulate the pay. So there's no way of knowing what the government will do to the salaries when I sign up after uni or even at uni Simply put doctors deserve the high pay. Their pay has to be based on skill which is high and is to be compared only with other doctors around the world But if u are gonna be crude about it and say too bad you sign the contact, well striking is an established part of the employer/staff relationship

@@SweetandSaltyyy Many doctors work part time. Why do they need more pay?

@@SweetandSaltyyy No, skill is relative. One doctor may be more skilled than another doctor. But you have no objective way of demonstrating that a doctor is more skilled than any other profession. Sure, a C# dev probably can't fix a brain aneurysm, but a doctor equally probably can't write coherent software in C#. So yes, while you can base pay on skill, than can only be within the specific profession, it cannot be in any way in relation to other professions.

​@LongbranchOlivetti smoothbrain take

Do you realise your "they knew the deal when they signed up" comment undermines your own point? I 'signed up' for med school in 2006 under a Labour government. I signed up for training in 2010. I am an ST7 due to finish in 2024. The period of pay erosion in question is SINCE I signed up. The government has a monopoly on training contracts and the ability to manipulate pay for this group knowing JDs cannot leave without losing training numbers. Also for JDs there is no signing a contract. The contract is assumed to be accepted if you remain in training. So there is no way to "if you don't like the contract don't sign". This topic has more context and nuance than you are presenting.

More money? They are being payed 30% less in real terms than they were in 2010, this isn't more money this is pay restoration.

@@Alex-cw3rz Doctors have received a real terms pay rise ever year since 2004.

@@taffyterrier what you said is factually inaccurate and you can just look it up and if you don't just admit that you don't care about the truth.

@@Alex-cw3rz Doctors received huge inflation busting pay rises from New Labour between 2004 and 2008 which the Commons Public Accounts Committee later denounced as ‘hopelessly unrealistic’ and when compounded more than compensate for any perceived “real terms pay cuts” between 2008 and 2022. Furthermore the alleged 30% real terms pay cut cited in your post is based on the discredited Retail Price Index measure of inflation and is therefore inaccurate and misleading. When the correct Consumer Prices Index is invoked the 30% figure reduces significantly.

@@Alex-cw3rz except they’re not counting shift allowance, on call, unsocial hours all built into their salary. They’re counting on people being thick enough not to be realise that.

6 days the junior doctors strike is 9 days it seems your story is actually caused by the defunding and privatisation of the NHS by the tories and not these strikes. Now please be honest with me, you made this up didn't you? I understand admitting it will be hard because it was disg usting thing to make up, but be honest and get it out there you will feel better for it.

@@Alex-cw3rz all true all awful

I understand your frustrations. However emergency and urgent services are still available. Waiting lists for cancer management and chronic disease management have lengthened for a very long time, since before any strikes. I wouldn't be surprised if this 6 day wait would have been par for the course regardless - I can say that when I've done referrals for patients they've had to wait weeks to be seen due to the chronic underresourcing in the NHS. Again, I'm sorry for your friend and the impact this will have on you. Please try to enjoy the festive period, and if at any time your friend feels worse, advise them to go to A&E.