PoliticsJOE vs The Spectator on doctors' strikes | LBC Cross Question 

Why - pray tell - is an American (land of the medically bankrupt) allowed a platform to tell us what she thinks about our healthcare system? These think tanks need to be outlawed.

That American girl was very rude and was always interrupting. Please don't invite her again.

You know things are bad in the UK when 25k is considered well paid

How much do we think this lady gets paid for attacking the NHS? More than any NHS employee

Kate is another IEA think tank goon there to manufacture consent in favour of the super rich. she can kick rocks

"Let me finish my point" proceeds to interrupt everyone else.

How is Kate being allowed to dictate this conversation? Inequality in this country is greater than it's ever been and greater than most other developed countries, not everyone has suffered cuts over the last few yrs!

Kate Andrews carefully skirting around the fact that the billionaires who groomed her have made vast increases in their wealth in the last 20 years, in fact by 73% since 2020. They are careful to keep the framing within the scope of the working/middle class where most have lost out. It’s a very “don’t look up” piece of gaslighting. These are the people that need tax rises, not the rest of us.

From a woman paid VERY WELL to shill for the tories. Over 100k per year I would guess

As an American whose life was saved thanks to a "socialized" medical service as a Sailor, I think it's beyond the evil of the devil himself for her to advocate for Americanizing the NHS.

As a Cancer Patient I back Doctors and Nurses 100%. For My Children & Grandchildren They will never forgive us if we lose the NHS. !

The Spectator is dishonest, unhelpful and truly disgusting.

An MP ON £45 an hour ,a cabinet minister £60 an hour plus expenses. A 35 % rise for doctors = £19.60 an hour .

That wasn’t a debate, it was the usual Kate Andrew’s show where she tells everyone they’re wrong and doesn’t really let them get a word in. She’s been discredited enough times now. As usual she doesn’t actually put anything forward, she’ll try and claim that if doctors want any kind of pay rise then the NHS needs to be made private because the NHS is unaffordable. If they do that healthcare becomes unaffordable and the economy as a whole will suffer as productivity goes down the drain as people end up sick more often with chronic conditions and life expectancy will decrease. The basics for the NHS still apply as much as they did when it was founded. It’s been the constant meddling of governments that keep making it worse. Go back to the basics of what the NHS is meant to do and meant to prevent. Stop selling bits off to private providers, this isn’t about making money it is about ensuring that there is an efficient, effective and productive work force. It pays for itself. If it is working properly and people are responsible about their healthcare, don’t eat so much junk, make sure that they keep active and keep some things at bay as a result the NHS doesn’t come under so much pressure in the first place. It’s an excellent service and principle that has been consistently eroded for decades now. It needs to stop.

Ah yes, Kate Andrews of the IEA, who were the primary backers of Liz Truss’s economics. How about we just completely disregard everything she says

4:25 Kate Andrews, formerly of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says "everybody has lost out". That is not true. The ultra wealthy who fund the Tory Party and shady think tanks like the Institute of Economic Affairs have seen their wealth grow under Tory rule. It's the vast majority of ordinary people who the the ultra wealthy leach off have seen things get worse.

I've suffered significant health issues in recent years - still under the doctors. And I support the doctors over people who know nothing of what NHS staff have to endure. Long live the NHS, sod what governments have done to it.

I used to work for a recruitment company supplying the NHS. The money is definitely there.

Ollie hit the nail on the head!

*People working underpaid and over worked* "Lets not pretend this is for patients" Yeah, I always want the nurses and doctors to be underpaid, best way to get the best people for the job. I mean, who actually needs money anyway? The people performing heart surgeries? Radiologists? Diagnostics specialists? Pfft, You can just just use a food bank. People go to university for 3-8 years to study medicine so they can build a life time career helping to or directly saving lives and then they want a fair wage? How selfish. Vote conservative! Lets make sure no one gets a pay rise...or pay!

I find it absolutely staggering that anyone would need to explain it so someone on the political Right that *market forces* are dictating that my clinical colleagues aren't being paid enough. We paid them enough in 2008 and then we elected people who decided not to. Then we kept electing them.

I live in Ireland. Our doctors are paid between 2 and 4 times that of the UK, and this is publically funded. So it is possible. Invest in your NHS, and public organisations

She says everybody has lost out - how about CEOs, footballers, MPs, the superrich. Have they lost out?

As a support worker I earn £25000 a year, a doctor, even a junior doctor should be earning more than me

Has MPs pay degraded similarly to doctor's pay over the same period, i.e., 2008 to 2023?

"tax them til the pips squeak" 😂💪

Everyone has lost out? I don't think mp's have lost anything, they have gained a lot by the looks of it 🤨

I love how Olli just says the most logical thing and essentially asks who pays you Kate? Than sits back and watches the zoo go beserk. I bet he was making an ethnogram on the paper in front of him, I would.

Why do we give these unknown "think" tanks platforms

The Spectator = Telegraph for those who need colour pictures to help them hate people they don`t know

“Everyone has had below inflation pay rises!” I don’t think that the super rich have. They seem to be doing quite nicely out of us.

How dare you use the name of PoliticsJOE clickbait me to watch the drivels of Kate Andrews!?

I wonder if she has a connection to American healthcare systems?

If you don’t pay healthcare workers better those in work will leave and those thinking about training to become one will choose not to. If you want a functioning healthcare system the government NEEDS to pay healthcare workers better.

Why was Ian allowing this American to interrupt everyone when she had the floor and said what she wanted??? Maybe a plant for big American Pharmaceuticals and if Ian knows this why was she allowed on his show to speak on doctors pay

A month ago my wife had a fall . Fractured her cheek.Cuts to face neck .Broken teeth .Damaged wrist .Went to.A&E . Took 14 hours to get a Scan .The place was like a casualty clearing station some had been there 24 hours .The staff and junior doctors were literally overrun . There were no beds to admit patients onto wards .The elderly were being helped to use the toilet by other patients .Food and water was distributed free in order to stop dehydration and hunger .Elderly people were cold and we went on the scrounge for blankets for them .People were on trolleys waiting to be admitted . The staff were amazing but unable to cope.I felt nothing but personal shame and shame in this government and this country for allowing this third world situation to be a reality here .140,000:staff short in all disciplines .45,000 nurses short.This didn't happen by accident .Hunt has much to answer for. Shameful, I say this as a veteran .

so 10k a day for MP on a side is fine but doctors should not get what they need? hmmm... I am looking forward to see her looking for help in one of hospitals... karma is coming for all of those like her

I’m not sure the opinion of an American, let alone one who writes for the Spectator, matters one iota when it comes to the NHS.

Ah yes: Kate Andrews: currently working as an Economics Correspondent at The spectator. Before that she was the mouthpiece/news editor for IEA - the Institute of Economic Affairs, a right-wing think tank and supporter of all things to do with de-regulation, privatisation and Brexit. Before that she joined the Adam Smith Institute as the Head of Communications - again, another neo-liberal organisation funded by the tobacco industry and other source that remain unknown. She has also worked in US politics for Mitt Romney and Linda McMahon: both associates of the Trump administration. Therefore, should we even have to listen to the diatribe and ideology that spills out of her mouth? Absolutely not.

That woman with the American accent objected to being cut off but she interrupted everyone else

Kate is not allowing others to talk. She keeps butting in. Her comments are incorrect. Who is funding her.

I love these free marketeers -- who're usually telling us that we should leave every decision to the 'invisible hand' and ask for CEOs and bankers to be paid 7-8 figure salaries and bonuses -- come out and say doctors shouldn't get a pay rise.

“Everybody has lost out” well maybe everybody should be angry and asking for wage rises too! What a world we live in where people asking for what theyve lost in the past 15 years is selfish, just because everyone else is also getting taken advantage of too. There's some people in this society who have done very well indeed, and they stay at the top by sending drones like this woman to pit us against the very people just like us we should be supporting!

We seriously need a think tank to discuss the relevance of think tanks.......

The lady who spoke last is absolutely right . Our society is unhealthy due to the powers that be, endorsing unhealthyness via poor education , poor regulation of food manufacturers , poor environmental planning and excellent bonuses for the CEO's who fund the government . It's all by design because the £ is more important the the people

I wonder how many shares Kate has in private health companies?

That woman's arguments are nonsensical. So because we've all been squeezed, doctors can't try to redress that? Ludicrous

I hardly recognised her. She looks well fed on her mysterious pay package

Oli is bang on point!!! Top Man!!!

Love how her argument is they don't earn peanuts because they can work overtime, weekends and nights ..

Absolutely 💯 there's plenty of money 💰 and yes it's definitely a political choice.

That bit where Kate says that everyone's losing out should be on a loop showing that the way in which capitalism is applied in this country.

Jr doctors more valuable than the poisonous princess

Isn't it funny how, when it's bankers pay being discussed, Kate and her ilk say "we need to pay more in order to get the best people". However, when it comes to the people who look after us, it is the complete opposite. I'd much rather have "the best" people working in healthcare than banking.

Like him or not, Oli Dugmore's patience here is STAGGERING.

Kate an American only mentioned Australian and European health services 😅

I can’t stand that Kate andrews she was awful on question time too!! 😡

Oli said "tax the rich" which then wasn't allowed to be followed up by anyone when the question of funding was asked. I've never understood why anyone who isn't in the 1% wouldn't continue to pursue this as a realistic policy. The protection the rich receive from poor journalism, right wing mouthpieces and silly people who genuinely believe they will earn that much one day, when this question is asked, is incredibly unfortunate

As soon as someone starts talking sense, the discussion is brought to a close.

I wonder why the NHS underperforms when it's been neglected for decades? How would you fund it? Tax the wealthy more for a start. Also, the NHS is paying hand over fist for massive private agencies to cover gaps, and yet we can't pay a decent wage to the staff they do have so they stay and others want to join? In the end, let's flip that funding question on its head: if we can't pay for decent healthcare, then what should we be paying for that's more important?

Kate Andrews of the IEA there. Biased. Disregard

“Every body has lost out”. No. The working class has lost out. The rich have gotten even richer. These are indisputable facts.

Why did they let that lady talk more than anyone else?

"tax them till the pips squeak". I love it

For a government that has already lost about 5% of tax revenue (more than military spending) due to corruption and failed projects, a pay raise for our doctors is a bargain investment

The fact that 350k appointments will be cancelled is justification for their actions. They are CRUCIAL to the wellbeing of our country. Paid the same hourly rate as workers on a building site!

She’s excellent in talking about how it can’t be done without coming up with a decent solution.

Oli Dugmore = Legend Kate Andrews = Thinktank shill

Lol American arguing against the nhs. Sadly I'm going to take the argument that Americans take when Europeans argue for gun control. I'm sorry I can't hear what you're saying over the sound of my freedom. It's shocking that Ian tried to stop the debate when it was hitting at the real issue. The NHS needs a clear public health strategy. You need to improve the the health of the population to make it work. A little know fact about the period of WW2 rationing is the health of the nation actually improved. Malnutrition fell Childhood mortality fell Rates of nutrition related health conditions fell. Why was this? The diet of the nation improved forcing people to eat vegetables and creating a market where everyone could access a balanced diet.

Love how the one who wanted to be allowed to finish speaking, had no problem constantly talking over the others!

Lets see Kate Andrews payslip

I suspect Kate Andrews is pitching to be the next Director of Communications at Tory HQ

I saw a surgeon who does Caesareans at the hospital about two months ago he told me he’s lucky if he’s able to do one at a month because they’re no longer being done the reason he has to do one every month is to keep up his license new doctors are not being trained in Caesareans this woman needs to get some of the facts straight

Thus is someone who supports austerity and all the excess deaths associated with it. Her fake concern should be seen as an slap in the face of all those countless thousands of needless deaths.

An American criticising NHS staff? Ha ha. The US healthcare system is so wonderful, isn't it? Nobody there dies or ends up in massive debt because they cannot afford healthcare, do they?

This is a person who's on a six-figure salary, is a paid lobbyist for the private health companies to dismantle the NHS, and a columnist for The Spectator magazine, claiming that the Junior Doctor's pay demands are outrageous. There was a public sector pay squeeze in this country since 2010, the doctors are trying to claw back at least some respectability to their pay, I fully support them. And they do a job of infinite more value than Andrews, whose main role is a cheerleader for neoliberalism and NHS privatisation, I know who does and doesn't deserve a pay rise.

Interestingly I think all of them had a fair point, if you add it all together, our entire society is built and adjusted to just keep going and quick plastered to fill cracks as they appear. Labour "efficiency" cannot happen in a system of already tired and stressed workforce, but other adjustments and a reduction of managerial overuse would help but not soon enough, which leads to the unpopular option of reforming scope and purpose. The only way to keep the status quo is to tax the rich, because the working and lower middle classes are already on their knees trying to keep afloat.

Who does Kate "work" for

Odd how the amount of money the NHS wastes is never mentioned or bought to the forefront.

Anyone who says junior doctors don't deserve better pay needs to work as one for a week and then say that.

'who am I arguing with here, let's go' 😂

Barely Vs Politics Joe… Ollie said about 2 sentences.

The Govt's inability to negotiate is the key stumbling block to any resolution. That they are the primary cause for much of what ails the NHS (including working conditions for its staff) over the past decade, is why we all desperately need a change of Government!

I'm a Band 5 in the NHS. I take home £1800pcm. Rent £750, Council tax £150, Energy £200 (soon to be more), Car running costs inc fuel £240, internet and phone £50, water £33, credit card £60 (increasing as the last few months I've used it at the end of the month due to running out of money). What's left (£300) is meant for food, shopping etc for myself and my daughter. I last went out socially August last year. I don't smoke or drink. I cannot afford clothing for myself, I do not spend anything frivolously. My recent MOT cost £220 went on my credit card. I work in a Mental Health Trust supporting some of societies most troubled and damaged individuals. I feel I should be able to do more than simply exist.

Lol, The Spectator plonker saying the US is not the 'Free Market' healthcare system!

Is this the Iain and Kate show?

Texas Kate compares a junior doctor to a three year apprenticeship.

I'm with Kate on this. Doctors are one of the best paid professionals in the country. They may start on £28k but that soon raises to £40k after a very short period and keeps going up to £70k -£100k.

Tells people to let her finish and then interrupts and talks over others 😂

I think they should let her talk uninterrupted, then interrupt everyone else. But I doubt Iain Dale would allow himself to be that biased.

Not asking for an extraordinary Pay rise!!??? 35%?? If you don't like what the job pays then find another profession

The NHS needs Real investment. Get rid of the private sector leeching of the NHS.

Didn’t realise Kate had her own show on LBC

My message to brilliant students at school. Work hard. Get your high grades. Don’t go to study medicine. Choose a career path that will allow you to work for the maximum amount of money with the best working conditions that you can get. Allow the less able students to study medicine and plug the workforce gap using doctors trained overseas. Then everyone will be happy!

MPs have had a 28% pay rise since 2010 £65,738 to £84,144) What skills do they have to do their job? They're shuffled in and out of cabinet positions according to the whim of the PM and the pressure groups (e.g. Braverman to Home Office). Let's talk about pay rises and gold-plated pensions, shall we? An unqualified secretary-level MP gets around £150k per year, plus expenses. Backbench MPs (and some cabinet members) earn ££££££ from "second jobs" and paid directorships and advisors and media (Lee Anderson £100k a year to spout on KGBNews). And once they're out, as well as their golden parachute, they have their pension and kudos to become paid advisors to those they've 'helped' whilst they were in post.

A 35% pay rise for the wealthiest in society is a ridiculous notion when people are suffering due to the tories cruel policies.

The view of the general Tory on full display

It's all the fault of the Tories

Tax the think tanks out of existence

Time for people to come out and support junior doctors and save the NHS. Tories would be happy with NHS failing