Is the Trinity "True or Not?" Debate #1: Are Trinitarians Polytheists as Jehovah's Witnesses Say? 

What is also interesting is the fact that other heretics that deny the Trinity (Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, etc) usually deny that Jesus is God in the flesh as well (Col 2:9, John 1:1-14, etc) but they get upset at both of the debaters here because both debaters accept Jesus as God. 2 Corinthians 13:14

Wow, what a wise, intelligent and bright revealing explanation given by this Trinitarian Christian! How confused is the Oneness man...

I am a former Oneness Pentecostal and one thing that I came to see in Scripture is that Jesus Christ is not God the Father and He is not the Hoy Ghost . People who use Scripture to prove that He is are lying . I detest lying because God detests lying . I do not care how sincere that someone is , they cannot get around the truth found in Scripture , that God the Father , Jesus Christ , and the Holy Ghost , are eternal with personal distinction . They have a personal relationship with one another and with Christians . The fact that Oneness Pentecostals have devoted so much time and energy to disprove what is in Scripture says a great deal about the God whom they believe in . Thank you CAnswersTV for taking a stand for the doctrine of the Trinity . Despite the efforts of many people to refute the doctrine and the ignorance of many people who condemn the doctrine , it has stood strong among most good Bible believing Christians in the world . When I departed from the Oneness heresy , I was able to see God for who He really is and at the same time , I was able to see many Oneness Pentecostals for who they are . The Oneness heresy is not accepted by very many people in my local area of Humboldt County , California , and it never will be because there are too many Christians who have taken the time to study Scripture regarding the identity and existence of God .

John 14 : 24 " And the Word which you hear is not mine, but it belongs to the Father who sent me."

The Word was "face to face" with God?? True or false?

Two Jehovah Witnesses visited my home, I spent two hours trying to explain to them the deity of Christ to no avail, I then asked them who is the savior of the world? One of them responded " it might be Jesus" I then responded "He either is or isn't the savior of the world." It's very sad to see them being deceived by the organization. When I was eight years old I remember picking up the bible for the first time and opening it to the book of John chapter 1 and as I read the first chapter I understood right there and then who Jesus Christ is. I had no one trying to explain this chapter to me, I wasn't confused, I kept thinking to myself and saying "wow" Jesus is my creator, I had a full understanding of the bible verse that reads "God was manifested in the flesh!" and that All things were created by Christ! Jw's say that jesus was a god but he can't be one because if he was a god then they're saying he was a false god because there's only one true God!

In the Trinity about Creation was, the Father thought it, the Son spoke it and the Holy Spirit implemented it.

Thank you for responding, appreciate your efforts and father God bless you, I will read these scriptures.

Now also, the Oneness position mentioned SENT. Now if i was sent to do something, you would assume that someone else sent me. I wouldn't send myself to do the will of someone else.

The comment Steve McCalip makes at 44:59 is utterly unbelievable. I really can't believe he even said that. This is sick theology.

Good comment. You put your comment up two weeks ago but I'm only seeing it for the first time now since I got several weeks behind in keeping up with my RU-vid video comments. I get very busy sometimes & I fall way behind on reviewing our video comments so don't be surprised if it takes awhile before one of your comments goes up. I'm on vacation from one of my 2 secular jobs & this has given me an opportunity to catch up on video comments. It's taken me 3 days to slowly catch up on 146 videos.

Thanks and welcome back. many blessings

Your question & answer are bogus. You're looking at the works of God from a base carnal mind (1 Cor 2:14). We know Jesus is not the Father because the Father sent the Son (John 3:16-17). They are two distinct witnesses (John5:31,32,37) & see also John 1:1-14 & 17:5. We also know Jesus is not the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is another comforter (John14:16). Jesus sent the Holy Spirit (John15:26). The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus (Luke3:22) and seeks to glorify Jesus (John16:13-14).

Jesus is God in the flesh Jesus made everything Jesus is Lord of Lords Jesus is King of Kings Jesus is the Lamb who we praise At the name of JESUS every knee shal bow!!

The religion of Islam is a totally man-made religion with nothing whatsoever to do with the true & living God as revealed in the Bible (which predates Islam by 600 years). See our website MUSLIMHOPE COM for documentation that Islam is false & Mohammad is the man who made it up. See our website BIBLEQUERY ORG to document why the Bible is true. The Qur'an is so false it doesn't even know who was the first to believe. Was it Abraham (Sura 6:14) or was it Moses (Sura 7:143)? See our videos on Islam

I love the way the Trinity is explained here.. I hope I'll be better equipped to speak on the Trinity.

1 Thessalonians 1:7-10, "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe." Repent before it's too late.

“Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” -Luke 13:23-24 Do you understand the question in the above Scripture? “Lord, are there few that be saved?” Someone came to Jesus and wanted to know if “few” people were saved. It's interesting that the person didn't ask if “many” people were saved. Evidently the person had been listening to Jesus' preaching and became convinced that few people were really saved. When the Bible speaks of being “saved,” it means saved from God's wrath upon Christ-rejecting sinners in Hell (for more on hell see our playlist "Dealing with Hell, Lake of Fire, Unpopular Bible Doctrines" with 30 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLE04A1D0DFE95B95E & "Eternal Punishment, Part 1" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12607145320 & "Eternal Punishment, Part 2" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12607143539). Romans 5:9, “Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.” All Christ-rejecters go to Hell if they die in their sins. If a person is “saved,” then they are going to Heaven when they die. Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” We are saved from the eternal consequences of sin, which is punishment in hellfire. To be saved is synonymous with being “born again.” When a person becomes a born-again child of God, they are saved eternally. EVERY human being MUST to be saved (i.e., born again) to enter into Heaven. John 3:3, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” If a person dies in their sins without believing on Jesus as the Savior, the Son of God, they will burn in Hell forever (Revelation 20:11-15).Just as the disciple who asked Jesus the question in Luke 13:23, I myself often wonder how few are truly born again believers. I dare say not many. Let's consider the question again...“Lord, are there few that be saved?” There are over one billion Catholics in the world who errantly believe that the Catholic Church is going to save them. Roman Catholics do not trust Jesus Christ alone; but rather, rely upon manmade traditions and self-righteous works to save them. According to the Word of God, genuine Catholics are hellbound in their sins because they are trusting in self-righteousness (Romans 3:20; 10:3-4; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5, see our playlist "Dealing with Roman Catholicism, Idolatry & the Virgin Mary" with 129 videos & counting at ru-vid.com/group/PLFFA8D69D1B914715). There are over one billion Islamic Muslims in the world who deny that Jesus Christ ever died upon a cross for our sins (see our playlist "Dealing with Islam, Muslims: Sunni, Shi'ite, Alawites, Sufis" with 67 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL1C7F68B548009FDD). According to the Bible, they are antichrists and liars on their way to Hell (1st John 2:22-23). There are over 183,000 cults in Japan alone that deny Jesus Christ as the only Savior of the world. Other false religions include Scientology, Hinduism, Wicca, Buddhism, Seventh Day Adventism, Zoroastrianism, Greek Orthodox, Judaism, Jehovah Witness, Mormonism, Freemasonry, and many more (see our RU-vid channel CAnswersTV at ru-vid.com with over 615 videos covering most of these anti Christian religions in detail). Why do I call them “false religions”? It's simply because they all corrupt the Biblical teaching of salvation, i.e., the gospel (see our playlist "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 48 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB). Most false religions ADD works to faith. Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses DENY the deity of Jesus Christ (i.e., that He is Almighty God) - see our playlists "Dealing with Mormonism, the Religion of Mitt Romney & Utah" with 20 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL11CD0EE613306BB5 & "Dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, Watchtower Society" with 22 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLCF0ADB29C0EB8C40. Seventh Day Adventists falsely and deceitfully redefine faith to mean works (see our playlist, "Dealing with Seventh-day Adventism & Their "Prophetess" with 23 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL5316CC6F66F24283). There are hundreds of millions of followers of Hinduism who deny Jesus as the Savior, the Son of God (see our playlist "Dealing with Anti Christ Cults, "New Age" & World Religions" with 42 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL69A3047B3497590A). Judaism denies that Jesus is the Messiah. The same Pharisaical Jews who crucified Jesus 2,000 years ago are crucifying Him today. The Campbellite Church of Christ deceitfully speaks of faith in Christ, but also requires water baptism and living the Christian life to be saved. That is works salvation, which is a lie of the Devil (Romans 3:20; Romans 4:5-6, see our playlist "Dealing with "Saved by Works & Baptism", "Church of Christ" with 72 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLBD55090718DA6D3D). Every Catholic claims not to worship Mary, but the second commandment (Exodus 20:3-5) forbids even bowing to Mary (which every Catholic does, for more on the Roman Catholic installation of the worship of saints, images, & polytheism in church history hear "Perseverance of the Saints & the Worship of Saints (Historical Theology Vol. 1, #17)" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=14101149112 & "The Worship of Images & Civil Authorities (Historical Theology Vol. 1, #18)" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=15101057200). There are hundreds of millions of so-called Charismatic & Pentecostal "Christians" who trade the Word of God for their own wild emotional experiences & replace the Biblical gospel for a gospel of "heath & wealth" despite 1 Timothy 6:10 saying, "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows" - see our two video series on this: "Blasphemous Charismatic & Pentecostal Mayhem #1: Mad Delusional Experiences Replace Scripture Alone" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Kbv7YsyMf0I.html begins one series while "AGONY OF THE PHONY WORD-FAITH TV PREACHERS #1: MIND SCIENCE ORIGINS OF KENNETH HAGIN & HIS DISCIPLES" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VwQ5BLrYD_U.html begins another series. Even secular humanism, atheism & agnosticism can be considered faith based religions due to the fact that atheists & humanists have a faith that God does not exist while agnostics are willingly ignorant concerning God (see our playlist "Dealing with "God Hating" Atheists, Agnostics, Know-It-Alls" with 20 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL640E505B96CD6B39). Many animistic religions exist throughout the world as well which are described in Romans 1:18-32, see our video "FOREIGN MISSIONS FOR CHRIST: PREACHING TO CANNIBALS, WITCH DOCTORS & TRIBAL NATIVES" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ACnDLyXa9H0.html. All of the religions I have just mentioned account for well over seven eighths of the earth's population or more. Keep in mind, besides all of this, Jesus said, "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24). Who are considered "rich people"? It's not just millionaires & world leaders but many lesser wealthy persons who exceed the vast majority of mankind in money & possessions (Luke16:19-31 is a good example of this in the parable of the rich man & Lazarus). See the video "It is Difficult for Americans to Enter Heaven - Tim Conway" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bDwNGXciNCQ.html. Statistics provided in this video show that even the poorest Americans living in the United States have a better net income than most of the world. For instance, according to Forbes magazine, June 1, 2013, the bottom 5% of United States citizens are richer than 68% of people living throughout the rest of the world; U.S. citizens who make $50,000 a year are richer than 99.69% of the people in the rest of the world; U.S. citizens who make $20,000 a year are richer than 96% of the people in the rest of the world, U.S. citizens who make $10,000 a year are richer than 84% of the people in the rest of the world; U.S. citizens who make $100,000 a year are in a category that only 8 out of every 10,000 people achieve in the entire world. Will it be difficult for rich Americans who don't think they're rich to enter into the kingdom of heaven? Jesus already gave the answer. For more on this hear "Those Whom God Hates He Is Often Pleased To Give Plenty Of Earthly Things To, Edwards" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=427121150346 by the well known theologian Jonathan Edwards who also preached the most famous sermon on North American soil called, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=770213541. If you don't like what I am telling you then get mad at God because He wrote the Bible. If you take the Bible at FACE VALUE, you can only interpret it one way. The best way to interpret the Bible is with the Bible. God said what He meant and meant what He said. Let the Bible speak for itself. Jesus answered the question in Luke 13:24 with the following words...“...for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” Most of the people in this world are going straight to Hell when they die because they have not been born again (hear "Few Saved From A Burning Hell" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=3514145121). Lies and deception are everywhere! Catholics and Jehovah Witnesses claim to be born-again but they are NOT. You can't get born-again by doing good works, confessing your sins to a priest, getting water baptized, joining a church or keeping the Sabbath Day. Salvation is NOT found in any religion; but rather, in a Person-The Lord Jesus Christ! Most people today have churchianity without Christianity, and they are all going to Hell if they don't repent toward God of their unbelief (for more on this see our video "TRUE BELIEVERS & NON BELIEVERS ACCORDING TO THE GOSPEL OF THE REFORMATION: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3_dN0oC57Rk.html). The vast majority of so-called "Evangelical Christians" in the world today do not know what the Biblical gospel is or what "justification by faith alone" is (see our video "SAD STATE OF THE CHURCH: 87% OF EVANGELICAL "CHRISTIANS" DON'T KNOW WHAT GOSPEL JUSTIFICATION IS" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-im4ozy_EiR4.html. There are only two types of religions in the world: DO and DONE. Either you believe that you have to DO something to go to Heaven; or else you believe that it is DONE, paid for by Jesus' precious blood. Jesus said in Luke 13:24 that “many” will seek to enter into Heaven but will not be able. That is quite startling. Jesus said the same thing in Matthew 7:21-23 . . . “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” The reason why these religious people were not allowed into Heaven was because they attempted to enter Heaven through their own self-righteousness. In Matthew 5:20 Jesus spake concerning the religious leaders of His time . . . “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Most of the religious churchgoers in the world today are as lost as can be, still hellbound in their wickedness. They have not done the will of God concerning salvation, which is to BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST (John 6:40; Acts 16:30-31). Jesus provides two contrasts in Luke 13:24, the contrast between seeking to enter and striving to enter and the contrast between seeking to enter through the narrow door and seeking to enter by any other means. Let’s now focus on the second contrast. Look at verses 25-27:"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.' 26 "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; 27 and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.' (Luke 13:25 NAU) Jesus’ statement at the end of 25 and the middle of 27 is translated well in the NIV: “I don't know you or where you come from.” In effect, He is saying, “I don’t know you at all! You may think that you are mine, but I have nothing to do with you - I don’t even know your family, your village” So what does Jesus mean by the narrow door? What is His intended contrast with other methods of entering? Again, let’s begin by considering what the narrow door is not: The narrow door is NOT being in a church, reading the Bible, listening to sermons, looking to others like a Christian. This is clear from verse 26: these evildoers looked just like believers who had been with Jesus. They had listened to His preaching. But He does not know them, and they stand condemned.The narrow door is NOT being prominent in this life. Jesus says in verse 30 that some who are presently first will be last. Prominence now is no guarantee of one’s entering through the narrow door.The narrow door is NOT being a descendant of a great believer. See verse 28. Remember, Jesus is speaking to descendants of Abraham and Jacob. I sometimes like to use the expression, “God has no grandchildren.” Each of us must come to Jesus on our own, not through our parents, our grandparents, or other ancestors. Then what does Jesus mean by the narrow door? Elsewhere, Jesus says He Himself is the door: I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. (John 10:9) In what sense is this door narrow? In two ways. First, the door is narrow in the sense that no one comes to the Father any other way (John 14:6). No religious activities - Christian or non-Christian - bring us into the Kingdom. Sincere beliefs do not bring us in. Good works do not bring us in. Good feelings about our relationship with Christ do not bring us in. Though in our pluralistic society this message is despised, we must preach, teach, and live out this truth: There is only one door, and that narrow door is Jesus. The Lake of Fire is waiting for "many" when they die. Jesus' disciple asked Him if few people are going to Heaven. Jesus replied that many people will attempt, but fail. When the floods came in Noah's day, many people tried to get on the ark, but it was too late once the door was closed. When the bridegroom came in Matthew 25:1-13, the five foolish virgins were left behind because they were gone buying oil at the last moment. Do not likewise make the mistake of delaying salvation, for you will be sorry when it is too late. Few souls are going to Heaven. Jesus said, "Only those who find that strait gate and narrow way that leadeth unto life (Matthew 7:13-15), which is the righteousness of Jesus Christ will make it to heaven. So many churchgoers have religion, but they have never truly been born of the spirit of God, which is the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9, hear "Why Are So Few People Saved?" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=111710103558). Salvation happens when a person acknowledges their guilt of sin unto God in repentance; believing on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, to be forgiven (this is a supernatural action caused by God in the heart of a repentant sinner in 2 Timothy 2:24-26; see also "SUPERNATURAL BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING JESUS THE JEWISH MESSIAH (PART #1)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DVByqkjwChs.html). We are SINNERS and Jesus is the wonderful SAVIOR! Acts 10:43, “To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” Salvation is given to those "few" who have been ordained to eternal life by God Himself (Acts 13:48). And who are those "few"? Jesus answers that question in John chapter 6:37,39,44,63 & 65: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." " It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." For more on this see our video "The Sovereignty of God Versus Man-Made Religions, Hollywood Movies & Petty Emotionalism" - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1UQABR_9gGI.html. Keep in mind that God works with relatively few numbers throughout world history (remember how Elijah thought he was the last prophet of God left in Israel in 1 Kings 19:13-18 & the Lord had to correct Elijah about the number but still the number God told Elijah was small). The God of the Bible has always had His way of operating His plan in this world & it has always been consistently with small numbers (1 Corinthians 1:26-29, "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence." For an excellent message concerning the small numbers God has historically employed please hear the outstanding theologian Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his sermon "Sermon 113 - Three-score and Fifteen Souls" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=99217141430450. We also have a video along these lines called " Biblical Predestination #6: God Only Chooses a FEW for Salvation (Many Called/Few Chosen)" - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-veCdGzYsc70.html. See also our video "Strive To Enter - But Many Will Not Be Able To - Greg Van Court - Dayspring Fellowship, Austin, TX" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qr2Rn-7o4RA.html. 2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Thank you for this video

Acts 5:3-4, "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God." The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. He is fully God. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, has a will, can speak (Acts 13:2, 1 Cor 12:11, etc).

Heretical critics of the Trinity doctrine claim that since the word, "Trinity," is not found in the Bible, it isn't true. Furthermore, some assert that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity, He would have stated the doctrine clearly. First of all, it is illogical to claim that since the word, "Trinity," is not found in the Bible, that its concept is not taught therein. This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity. Instead, the person should look to God's Word to see if it is taught or not. Second, there are many Biblical concepts that people believe in that don't have a specific word describing them used in the Bible. For example, the word, "bible," is not found in the Bible, but we use it anyway to describe the Bible. Likewise, "omniscience" which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence" which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence" which means "present everywhere," are words not found in the Bible either, but we use them to describe the attributes of God. We don't have to see a specific word in the Bible in order for the concept it describes to be true. Following are other words that the Bible does not use, but the concepts are mentioned: Atheism is the teaching that there is no God. "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God,'" (Psalm 14:1). (See atheism) Divinity which means divine quality or godlike character. Yet, we speak of the godlike quality of the Lord God. See Psalm 139 and Col. 2:9. Incarnation which means the word (God) who became flesh. Yet, this is definitely taught in the Bible (John 1:1, 14). Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10, 44:8). Rapture is the teaching that the Christians who are alive when Jesus returns will be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-18). So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Furthermore, to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have clearly taught it in Scripture is also an invalid argument. Not all things taught in the Bible are perfectly clear. Take a look at the Book of Revelation. It contains many things that are cryptic that must be interpreted after examining all of the Bible. Even then, there are disagreements as to what some things mean. Yet, we know that the truths there are true whether or not we discover them. Nevertheless, there are Scriptures that demonstrate a Trinitarian aspect of God. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." Eph. 4:4-7, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift." Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." 1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5). 2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity. In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity. 3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity-the Father. 4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16). 5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14. 6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things. The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent. The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit. Recommended Resources: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White. See our playlist "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 54 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB. Titus 1:9-16

I did go to the Ravi Zacharias video & watched the entire presentation. I thought it was very good on the subject of the Trinity & at the same time dealing with the laws of non-contradiction. Thanks for the tip!

This is one of the BEST comments I have ever read in my life.

@EzekielTheWatchman Excellent point! You may be interested to know that Steve McCalip participated in a 4 hour debate with Christian Answers director Larry Wessels & your point was brought up during that debate. Check out "Did Jesus Die for Everybody Who Ever Lived or Not? Debate #4: WHY DOES JESUS SPEAK IN PARABLES?" (copy & paste this title into the RU-vid search box to see it). Even though Mark didn't catch Steve on this point here, see what happens when Wessels & McCalip go after it.

@afterray I quoted Paul from 1 Corinthians 2:11-14 to prove the Biblical point that men, without the Spirit of God, cannot accept the truths of God because they are "foolishness" to them. Not only that but Paul goes on to say that the man without the Spirit of God cannot know the things of God because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor 2:14b). This is why Jesus said men must be "born again" by the Spirit of God before they can see the Kingdom of God (John 3:3-8). The Trinity is changeless..

Yes. The doctrine of the Trinity emerges from both the Old & New Testaments scriptures in several noteworthy places: The Incarnation of Jesus: Luke 1:35, The Baptism of Jesus: Matthew 3:16-17, The Great Commission: Matthew 28:19. The Resurrection of Jesus: Father (Acts 3:26, 1 Thessalonians 1:10), Son (John 2:19-21, John 10:18), Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11, 1 Peter 3:18). Each Person of the Trinity is Eternal: Father (Psalm 93:2), Son (Micah 5:2, Isaiah 9:6), Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14). Etc. Etc.

@MrJayguess Since we believe what the Bible plainly teaches we can't help but totally agree with you! Blessings, 2 Corinthians 13:14.

@OneEyedJack1970 Great point! Only God can take the punishment for sin throughout all human history & actually accomplish atonement for it (Hebrews 1:1-8). No created being is capable of this incredible sacrifice (John 1:1-14, Colossians 2:9, Philippians 2:6-11 cf. Isaiah 45:23 cf. Romans 14:11, etc).

@MrJayguess You're correct about church history. We have a whole website on the subject (HISTORYCART COM) & a multi-episode video series on early Christian church history. Check out our "EARLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH HISTORY #2: TRINITY DOCTRINE TAUGHT LONG BEFORE COUNCIL OF NICAEA IN 325 A.D." here on RU-vid. An easy way to find a bunch of our Trinity videos is to type "LARRY WESSELS BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY" in the YT search box. My KJV Bible shows 2 Corinthians 13:14 to be correct. Comment?

For more on the Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity go to our website www.BibleQuery.org and once on our homepage scroll down to our newsletter section on the left side of the screen then click on our newsletters "The Trinity" & "Oneness Pentecostals." See also our playlist "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" on RU-vid at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB with 43 videos. What is the Trinity? The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other yet identical in essence. In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the other persons of the Trinity. Each has a will, loves, and says "I" and "You" when speaking. The Father is not the same person as the Son, who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, and who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods but one God. There are three individual subsistences or persons. The word "subsistence" means something that has a real existence. The word "person" denotes individuality and self-awareness. The Trinity is three of these though the latter term has become the dominant one used to describe the individual aspects of God known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Included in the doctrine of the Trinity is a strict monotheism which is the teaching that there exists in all the universe a single being known as God who is self-existent and unchangeable (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8). Therefore, it is important to note that the doctrine of the trinity is not polytheistic as some of its critics proclaim. Trinitarianism is monotheistic by definition, and those who claim it is polytheistic demonstrate a lack of understanding of what it really is. The Trinity God is three persons. Each person is divine. There is only one God. Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God. When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals. But in God there are not three entities nor three beings. God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons. Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead. Each of the three persons is not the other two persons. Each of the three persons is related to the other two but are distinct from them. The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible, but this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere" are not found in the Bible either; but we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Is there subordination in the Trinity? There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity regarding order but not substance or essence. We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 15:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16). This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine. For example, we see that the Father sent the Son, but this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature. The Son is equal to the Father in his divinity but inferior in his humanity. A wife is to be subject to her husband; but this does not negate her humanity, essence, or equality. By further analogy, a king and his servant both share human nature. Yet, the king sends the servant to do his will. Jesus said, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38). Of course Jesus already is King; but the analogy shows that because someone is sent, it doesn't mean they are different from the one who sent him. Critics of the Trinity will see this subordination as proof that the Trinity is false. They reason that if Jesus were truly God, then He would be completely equal to God the Father in all areas and would not, therefore, be subordinate to the Father in any way; but this objection is not logical. If we look at the analogy of the king and the servant, we certainly would not say that the servant was not human because he was sent. Being sent does not negate sameness in essence. Therefore, the fact that the Son is sent does not mean that He is not divine any more than when my wife sends me to get bread, I am not human. Is this confusing? Another important point about the Trinity is that it can be a difficult concept to grasp, but this does not necessitate an argument against its validity. On the contrary, the fact that it is difficult is an argument for its truth. The Bible is the self-revelation of an infinite God. Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand--especially when dealing with an incomprehensible God who exists in all places at all times. So, when we view descriptions and attributes of God manifested in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we discover that a completely comprehensible and understandable explanation of God's essence and nature is not possible. What we have done, however, is derive from the Scripture the truths that we can grasp and combine them into the doctrine we call The Trinity. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." Eph. 4:4-7, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift." 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure." Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." ______________ Sources: Baker's Dictionary of Theology, Everett Harrison, ed. Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1960. Berkhoff's Systematic Theology, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1988. Grudem, Wayne, Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1994. Hodge's Systematic Theology, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1981. Seven Simple Facts About the Trinity "Trinity" was a term used by Theophilus of Antioch (168-181/8 A.D.) and Tertullian (c.207 A.D). It describes seven Biblical facts. Are there any you have not seen before in the Bible? 1. There is an Undeniable "Threeness" in Scripture Mt 3:16-17; 28:19; 2 Cor 13:14; 1 Pet 1:2; Eph 2:18; 3:14-17; 1 Th 1:3-5; Rev 4:8; Rom 15:16; Heb 9:14; Jude 20,21; Isa 48:16; 2 Th 2:13-14; John 15:26. Is the work of our salvation at the cross a work of man or a work of God? 2. The Three Are Inseparable in Some Ways Mt 28:19; John 10:27-30; 12:44-46,49-50; 14:9-11; 15:26; 16:13-15; 17:10; Rom 8:9-11; 1 Cor 2:11-12. The Father & Jesus share at least 25 names and titles (Lord of Lords Rev 17:14; Dt 10:17, Alpha & Omega Rev 1:8;17-18). How often have you said the end of 1 Cor 12:3? 3. The Three Are Distinct in Some Ways Mt 3:16-17; Lk 3:21-22; Jn 1:1;6:38;14:31;15:26;16:28;17:5; Acts 5:31-32; Heb 5:7-8. Heaven was not empty when Jesus came to earth. The Three communicated when Jesus was baptized. 4. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God 1 Pt 1:2,3; Jn5:18;8:54 Heb 1:8-9; Rev 1:8; 22:12-16 Rom 8:9-16; 1 Cor 12:6,11 Ep 1:2-3,17;3:14;5:20 John 1:1,18; 20:28; Luke 1:35; 1 Cor 2:10-11 1Th1:1,3;3:11;Phm 3 Hosea 1:7, Is 7:14 1 John 4:12,13,15-16; Jn 14:16,26 2Th1:1; 2:16; Ga1:1,3 1 John 5:11,12, vs. 21 1 Cor 3:16 vs. 1 Cor 6:19 Titus 1:4; 1Cor1:3;8:6 Col 2:9 & Mt 1:23 Acts 5:3-4; Job 33:4; Ps 139:7-10 Ep3:11;Jn17:5 (eternal) Heb 7:3; 13:8 (eternal) Heb 9:14 (eternal) In some verses idols are referred to as gods, (Gen 31:30,3; 1 Cor 8:5) and in two places men are referred to as "gods" (Ps 82:6-7; Jn 10:34-36). "God" here though is defined as: 1) One whom we and all the world are created through. 2) Rightfully worshipped by angels and men. 3) Rightfully given praise and devotion by men. 4) Rightfully called our Lord and our God.

According to Chuck Missler, the Trinity had already been evident as early as in the creation of man in Genesis when God said "Let US create...". God couldn't be speaking with the angels becoz angels don't have the power to create. Clearly it was an indication of a plurality in terms of person, and singularity in terms of power. Also, Missler explains that the Hebrew word for God, "Elohim", although spoken in the context of ONE entity, has the quality of plurality. Simply said, "Elohim" is a plural word used in the context of singular. It's Trinity all the same.

Poor Oneness tripped over his words. I would have asked Steve why did Jesus wait 3 years to identify Himself to His disciples? Steve said the Father died for him. That is ancient Modalism which was condemned by the early church.

@Gr8eskape Deuteronomy 6:4 (Shema), does not disprove the Trinity. The Trinity is the teaching that in the one God there are three distinct, simultaneous, co-eternal, and co-powerful persons known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). The verse is saying that YHWH alone is God and is teaching monotheism. Also, the word for "one" in Deut. 6:4 is "echad," which is often used for describing a composite unity such as one cluster of grapes. See also Genesis 2:24 (1 yet 2).

Interestingly, when a Muslim says that the Bible has been corrupted, he's contradicting his own revelations. While Muslims today often claim that the Bible has been corrupted, the Qur'an says something completely different. In the Qur'an, Allah affirms the inspiration (3:3-4), preservation (6:114-115; 10:94; 18:27) and authority (5:47; 5:68) of the Christian scriptures. See our website www.MuslimHope.com (playlist "Dealing with Islam, Muslims: Sunni, Shi'ite, Alawites, Sufis" at ru-vid.com/group/PL1C7F68B548009FDD) & another excellent site www.AnsweringMuslims.com (see their videos "Muhammad and Aisha (His Pre Puberty Six Year Old Wife)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-psznHJCFZ9c.html, "Why Did Muhammad Wear Women's Clothing?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--50CraaniT0.html, "David Wood: Five Reasons the Quran Is Not the Word of God" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NvlzlBov9zc.html, "Muhammad Explains the Universe (Islam and Science, Part One)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-P7I0IAl88jg.html, "Muhammad Explains Human Reproduction (Islam and Science, Part Two)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-w7JuBivkNSA.html, "The Quran, the Bible, and the Islamic Dilemma" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nNAS0aaViM4.html & many others at ru-vid.com). See our video "MOHAMMAD'S THREE GODDESSES OF ALLAH: ISLAM'S "SATANIC VERSES" (QUR'AN 53:19-20)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OAaYKH7NbNI.html. Muhammed's "Satanic Verses." Muslims often are very quick to tell others that God allowed the Bible to be corrupted. What they are implying is that the Qur'an today is the reliable word of God while the Bible is not. The Bible has many minor textual variants, but the evidence of any doctrinal changes in negligible. The Qur'an has more evidence of corruption in light of Ubai, abrogated verses, 'Uthman, and other Qur'anic problems. However, the most drastic Qur'anic doctrinal variation, brought up by Muslims themselves, is "the daughters of Allah". The Christian web site answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/sverses.htm says, "One of the most embarrassing events in Muhammad's life occurred when Satan put his words in Muhammad's mouth. Muhammad spoke Satan's words as the word of God. This event is documented by several early Muslim scholars and referenced in the Hadith and Qur'an." Embarrassed Muslims later changed the Quranic verses to something else. This topic is one of the most controversial in Islam. Satan caused Muhammad to recite his words as God's words." What Did the Qur'an Originally Say? The Star Sura (Sura 53) verses 19-20 say, "Have ye seen Lat, and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?" Allah was prominent in Pre-Islamic Arabia, as a god with three daughters: al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat. (Note that al- means "the".) The four early biographers of Mohammed wrote that they verses originally were followed by: "These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for." Interpretation: Allah's daughters were considered heavenly beings of intercessors. High altitude Numidian cranes were a metaphor for them. An alternate reading for "is to be hoped for" (turtaja) is "is accepted with approval" (turtada). (From Alfred Guillaume's translation of Ibn Ishaq's The Life of Mohammed p.166. Al-Wahidi/Wakidi (died 207/823 A.D.) wrote Asbab al-Nozul. "On a certain day, the chief men of Mecca, assembled in a group beside the Kaaba, discussed as was their wont the affairs of the city; when Mahomet appeared and, seating himself by them in a friendly manner, began to recite in their hearing the 53 Sura.... 'And see ye not Lat and Ozza, and Manat the third besides?' When he had reached this verse, the devil suggested an expression of the thoughts which for many a day had possessed his soul; and put in to his mouth words of reconciliation and compromise, the revelation of which he had been longing for from God, namely; 'These are the exalted Females, and verily their intercession is to be hoped for.' The Coreish were surprised and delighted with this acknowledgement of their deities; and as Mahomet wound up the Sura with the closing words 'Wherefore bow down before God, and serve him' the whole assembly prostrated themselves with one accord on the ground and worshipped. ... In the evening Gabriel visited him; and the prophet recited the Sura unto him. And Gabriel said, 'What is this that thou has done? Thou has repeated before the people words that I never gave unto thee'. So Mahomet grieved sore, ..." Ibn Jarir al-Tabari (died 923 A.D.) was a Shafi'ite Sunni who wrote a 38-volume Islamic History of the world until 915 A.D. He has been titled "the sheikh of commentators". He writes in volume 6 p.108-110, "When the messenger of God saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from God, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from God which would reconcile him with his tribe.... And when he came to the words: 'Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?' Satan cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words: 'These are the high flying cranes; verily their intercession is accepted with approval [alternately: to be desired or hoped for].' When the Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the message which he brought from god, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake. ... Then [later] Gabriel came to the Messenger of God and said, 'Mohammed, what have you done? You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from God, ...'" Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15

This debate appears to be two Trinitarians arguing over the defnition of what "3 persons in 1 God" actually means. If Trinitarians can't agree upon their theological definitions regarding what is actually meant when talking about "3 persons in 1 God", the unbeliving and non-Christian world is certainly not going to settle the argument for them.

Apparently the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of Jehovah's Witnesses has no fear of Revelation 22:18-19. The easiest way to demonstrate contradictions in the Jehovah's Witness New World Translation of the Bible is by contrasting it to the Watchtower 1969 Kingdom Interlinear Translation also published by them & also their original 1950 edition of the NWT which differs significantly from their more modern editions. By pitting their own translations against each other the Jehovah's Witnesses lose either way. I use my 1969 "K.I.T." (The JWs call it their "The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures" which has a purple cover but I've always referred to it as the "Purple People Eater" as a joke among my friends) & in meetings with JWs I have pointed out such passages as Acts 10:36, Colossians 2:6-12, Romans 1:20, Philippians 3:11 cross referenced to Philippians 1:19, 1 Peter 1:11, Revelation 3:14, Ephesians 3:19, Hebrews 12:9,23 etc. showing differences in their Greek renditions that differ from what their English NWT says. Of particular interest is their own violations of their own "rules" of translation given in both their "Forwards" of the KIT & NWT such as : examples of biased paraphrase in John 15:5,7 "in Christ," John 17:26, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Galatians 1:16, Romans 8:9-10; examples of non literal translation of English - Colossians 1:16 "other," Philippians 2:9 "other," Hebrews 9:27 "for all time;" not following their own rule of "assigning each word one meaning or definition: Matthew 25:46 "cutting off" cf Acts 4:21, Matthew 27:50 "yielded up his breath" cf Luke 23:46 "spirit" cf Hebrews 12:23 "spiritual lives;" Philippians 2:10-11 "Lord," but translated in Romans 14:11 as "Jehovah," see also John 1:1, John 8:58, Romans 10:12, Acts 12:23, Acts 4:12 & 1 Peter 3:15. Their NWT translates "torture stake" in Matthew 10:38 instead of the word "cross" but both the KIT & NWT would refute that in John 20:25 by the plural use of the word "nails" since you need "nails" for a cross (a nail for each hand) but only one nail for a "torture state" (one nail going through both hands at the same time) as they say (pages 1154-1155, KIT, 1969). I cover some of the above information in our videos "THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES FRAUDULENT BIBLE: EVALUATING THE "NEW WORLD TRANSLATION" VERSE BY VERSE" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CtqstNm5WI4.html & "EXAMINING THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS "NEW WORLD TRANSLATION" OF THE BIBLE" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oGT82qj4cj0.html. An internet search on "Contradictions in the New World Translation" will yield further results (such as www.eldaleonwhite.com/jw/jw3.pdf). For example I found the following useful information just doing a quick web search. Is The New World Translation Accurate? The New World Translation of The Holy Scriptures (NWT) is the main bible used by Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide. After only a casual reading of it, lovers of God’s Word will quickly realize its peculiarity. It has sent shivers down the backs of many well-known theologians and contemporary Greek scholars. Many proof texts Christians use to teach and defend the foundational truths of their faith are rendered quite differently in this translation. Often, the verses presented represent radical departures from orthodox Christian beliefs. However, just because something is different doesn’t mean that it is wrong. According to the bible, we need to test all things (1 Thess. 5:21). How can we test the accuracy of the NWT? Well, since the New Testament was originally written in Greek, we can compare the New Testament of the NWT to a widely recognized, accepted and scholarly Greek text. In fact, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has already done that for us. In 1969 and again in 1985, the Watchtower printed and published the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (KIT). This book compares the NWT’s New Testament to the scholarly 1881 Westcott and Hort Greek text of the New Testament. The KIT is arranged so that the Greek text is on the left side of the page with the English rendering below it and the NWT is on the right side. According to the 1985 KIT on p. 5, the arrangement is beneficial because, “....the accuracy of any modern translation can be determined”. So, lets compare some verses in the KIT to see if the NWT is in fact accurate. Before we dig in, I want to refer to 2 statements found in the 1985 KIT. On p.9 it says, “We offer no paraphrase of the scriptures. Our endeavor throughout has been to give as literal a translation as possible ....”. And on p.10, “To each major word we have assigned one meaning and have held to that meaning as far as the context permitted”. So, with those statements in mind let’s check out the 1985 KIT. Scripture Verses: John 8:58 John 17:3 Hebrews 12:22-23 Philippians 2:9 Colossians 1:16-20 Colossians 2:9 John 1:1 Matthew 25:46 vs. Acts 4:21 Acts 11:14 Summary John 8:58 NWT- “Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been””. Literal Greek Text- “Said to them Jesus Amen amen I am saying to you Before Abraham to become I Am.” Why has the NWT violated their own standard and paraphrased the Greek words ego eimi (I AM) into I have been? After all, the NWT translates ego eimi accurately into I am in versus 18, 23, 24 and 28. To answer that question, one needs to read Exodus 3:13-14 in any approved bible translation. For example, in the King James Version (which Jehovah’s Witnesses used prior to 1950), Moses asks YHWH (LORD) what His name is. God’s answer is “I AM”. This presents a problem for the Watchtower, because Jesus is claiming to be the I AM, the Almighty God of the Old Testament. Notice the next verse in John 8:59, “Therefore, they picked up stones to hurl at him....”. The religious Jews of Jesus’ day knew very well who Jesus was claiming to be. They acted as if Jesus was a blasphemer (see Lev 24:16). Return to Scripture Verses John 17:3 NWT- “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” Literal Greek Text- “This but is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you the only true God and whom you sent forth Jesus Christ.” Notice the change? “They may be knowing you” has been translated into the NWT as, “taking in knowledge of you”. Witnesses will say that both wordings mean the same thing. However, this is not true. One may take in an abundance of knowledge about the president, for example, but never actually know him personally. The same is true of Christ. Many people know about Jesus but they don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Jesus actually spoke about this in Matthew 7:22-23. He said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. See also John 5:39-40. Why would the Watchtower want to distort the meaning of this text? Because by saying that eternal life comes by “taking in knowledge”, the Society keeps the Jehovah’s Witness dependent on them for salvation. Studying their literature becomes a matter of life and death and therefore, the Witness remains under the complete control of the Watchtower. Sadly, one never knows how much knowledge he must take in to gain everlasting life. Return to Scripture Verses Hebrews 12:22-23 NWT- “But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect.” Let’s look at the end of v. 23 in the Greek: Literal Greek Text- “....and to spirits of righteous (ones) having been perfected....” Why has the Watchtower again violated their own standard and paraphrased the word “spirits” from the Greek text into “spiritual lives” in the NWT? Because, since the text is clearly speaking of heaven, if the NWT used the accurate rendering “spirits”, it would conflict with their doctrine of soul sleep. Soul sleep is the belief that man does not possess an immaterial nature that survives the death of the physical body. The Watchtower teaches that once a man is dead, he remains unconscious in the grave until the future resurrection, which began, according to the Society, in 1918, when dead members of the anointed class (the 144,000) were raised into heaven as invisible spirits. However, the above verse clearly states that in the first century A.D., when it was written, there were already spirits of saved men in heaven. The doctrine of soul sleep can be refuted by many other scriptures such as Mt. 10:28, Jn. 11:25-26, 2 Co. 5:8, Rev. 6:9-11. Return to Scripture Verses Philippians 2:9 NWT- “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name....” Literal Greek Text- “through which also the God him put high up over, and he graciously gave to him the name the over every name....” Why has the Watchtower inserted the word “other” in the NWT? Again, this conflicts with their theology that Jesus is a lesser being than that of the Father. If the word “other” is taken out of the text, the verse says that Jesus has been given the highest name in all the universe. This puts Jesus on a level equal with Jehovah God. Return to Scripture Verses Colossians 1:16-20 NWT- “because by means of him all [other] things have been created....all [other] things have been created through him....Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist....” Literal Greek Text- Suffice it to say that the word “other” is not found in the Greek text. Why has the Watchtower added the word other four times in the above passage? Without the word “other” present, the text says that Jesus is the Creator of all things. By sticking the word other in, Jesus becomes Jehovah’s “master worker” who was created by Jehovah and was then used to create all other things in existence. Interestingly, the very first edition of the NWT’s New Testament didn’t even bracket the word “other” to show that it was added to the text. Later editions became somewhat more honest. However, many times when the Watchtower quotes the above verses in their literature, they remove the brackets. We see that again, the Greek text contradicts the Watchtower’s own theology. Return to Scripture Verses Colossians 2:9 NWT- “....because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.” Literal Greek Text- “....because in him is dwelling down all the fullness of the divinity bodily” Why has the Watchtower translated the word divinity as divine quality? Again, just as in John 8:58, the verse has been paraphrased to strip Jesus of His Deity. The Watchtower teaches that when Jesus walked on the earth, he was nothing more than a perfect man. His very essence or being was not divine, he only possessed the qualities of divinity. It is interesting that the 1969 KIT used the word godship instead of divinity in the literal Greek text, although the NWT on the right side still translated it “divine quality”. Although in Romans 1:20 when referring to the Father, the Watchtower translated the word “godship” in the Greek text into “Godship” in the NWT text. Does the words double-standard cross your mind? The fact that they changed the English word from godship in the 1969 version to divinity in the 1985 version is also revealing. On p.5 of the 1985 KIT, it says, “Between the lines of the Greek text will be found the word-for-word English translation of 1969”. However, we find an example here where it is not word-for-word from the 1969 translation. The Watchtower can’t even conform to their own standards. Return to Scripture Verses John 1:1 NWT- “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” Literal Greek Text- “ In beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward the God, and god was the Word.” Of all the scriptures in the NWT, this one in particular makes Christians cringe the most. The difference is obvious. Notice that their is no “a” in the Greek text before the last rendering of “god”. It has been inserted into the NWT. Why? The Watchtower argument from p.1139 of the 1985 KIT goes like this: “.... because the Greek word ....(theos) is a singular predicate noun occurring before the verb and is not preceded by the definite article.” What this means is that since the definite article, the, is before the first mention of God but not the second, and the verb, was, is after the second mention of god, then the rendering “a god” is justified. (If you’re thoroughly confused, don’t worry.) This is a perfect example of the Watchtower making up a grammatical rule and only applying it when it fits their theology. If they applied this rule to the rest of the New Testament, the outcome would be ridiculous. The following are some examples of how a few scriptures would turn out in the book of John if they applied their rule consistently: John 1:12 “However, as many as did receive him, to them he gave authority to become a god’s children.” John 1:13 “and they were born, not from blood or from a fleshly will or from man’s will, but from a god’s.” John 1:18 “No man has seen a god at any time....”. John 3:2 “....Rabbi, we know that you as a teacher have come from a god....” Obviously, the Watchtower has gone to great lengths to deny the Deity of Christ. They are hard-pressed to find any reputable source to agree with their translation of John 1:1. (see article Does the Watchtower Endorse Spirit Mediums) Even B.F. Westcott, whose Greek text is used in the KIT and is the basis for the NWT, doesn’t agree with them. He said, “The predicate (God) stands emphatically first, as in iv.24. It is necessarily without the article (theos not ho theos) inasmuch as it describes the nature of the Word and does not identify His Person....No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression, which simply affirms the true deity of the Word.” The Gospel According to St. John (Eerdmans, 1958 reprint), p.3. Similarly, Greek scholar Dr. Julius R. Mantey, who was quoted in the 1969 KIT p.1159, called the Watchtower’s rendering of this verse, “A grossly misleading translation.” Return to Scripture Verses Matthew 25:46 vs. Acts 4:21 Matthew 25:46 NWT- “And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” Literal Greek Text- “And will go off these into lopping off everlasting, but the righteous (ones) into life everlasting.” Notice that the old English words “lopping off” in the Greek text have been translated as “cutting-off” in the NWT. Why haven’t they translated the words “lopping off” into “punishment” as do all reputable bible translations available today? Because, since the Watchtower doesn’t want any Jehovah’s Witnesses to believe in hell, a place of eternal punishment, they have to use the words “cutting-off” so that it will agree with their doctrine of annihilation. This is the belief that no one will go to a place of everlasting punishment, God will annihilate the unsaved so they will just cease to exist. Let’s compare this verse to another verse. Acts 4:21 NWT- “....they released them, since they did not find any ground on which to punish them....” Literal Greek Text- ....they released them, nothing finding the how they might lop off them....” How did the NWT render the words “lop off” in this verse? PUNISH! Obviously, the Watchtower is not consistent with their translation. When the words “lop off” are in a verse that doesn’t challenge their teaching, they use “punish”, but when it doesn’t agree with their doctrine they use “cutting-off”. Remember the statement written on p. 10 of the KIT: “To each major word we have assigned one meaning....”. Their goes that promise out the window. Return to Scripture Verses Acts 11:14 NWT- “....and he will speak those things to you by which you and all your household may get saved.” Literal Greek Text- “....who will speak sayings toward you in which will be saved you and all the house of you.” Why has “will be saved” been translated into “may get saved”? Because a rank and file Jehovah’s Witnesses has no assurance of his salvation. The Watchtower’s gospel is a works based system so the Witness never knows if he has done enough to merit eternal life. There is no end to knocking on doors, taking in knowledge and serving at the Kingdom Hall. Even if he makes it into the thousand reign of Christ, he still may be annihilated if he doesn’t measure up to Jehovah’s standard. The Jehovah’s Witness is kept in a state of spiritual bondage. If he only knew that Christ’s blood frees us from dead works and gives all who place their faith in Him alone the assurance of eternal life (John 5:24, 10:28; 1 Peter 1:3-5). Return to Scripture Verses In summary, it is obvious that the NWT is not an honest translation. The Watchtower has secretly smuggled in their own peculiar doctrines to the scriptures by paraphrasing and changing verses where necessary. No wonder why the Watchtower won‘t reveal the names of the men on the “New World Translation Committee”. Who would want to take the blame? Finally, one must wonder what kind of organization can publish such a corrupted translation and say in their publication, All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial, “The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is a faithful translation of God’s Word....” p. 331. And, “Thanks be to God that he has provided the New World Translation, with its clear and accurate Bible text.” p.327 For those interested please see our playlist "Dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, Watchtower Society" with 22 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLCF0ADB29C0EB8C40. Matthew 7:15, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is one of the Ten Commandments found in the Hebrew Bible (לא יהיה־לך אלהים אחרים על־פני; Exodus 20:3 = Deuteronomy 5:7). Who is God? - The Fact The fact of God’s existence is so conspicuous, both through creation and through man’s conscience, that the Bible calls the atheist a “fool” (Psalm 14:1). Accordingly, the Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God; rather, it assumes His existence from the very beginning (Genesis 1:1). What the Bible does is reveal the nature, character, and work of God. Who is God? - The Definition Thinking correctly about God is of utmost importance because a false idea about God is idolatry. In Psalm 50:21, God reproves the wicked man with this accusation: “You thought I was altogether like you.” To start with, a good summary definition of God is “the Supreme Being; the Creator and Ruler of all that is; the Self-existent One who is perfect in power, goodness, and wisdom.” Who is God? - His Nature We know certain things to be true of God for one reason: in His mercy He has condescended to reveal some of His qualities to us. God is spirit, by nature intangible (John 4:24). God is One, but He exists as three Persons-God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:16-17). God is infinite (1 Timothy 1:17), incomparable (2 Samuel 7:22), and unchanging (Malachi 3:6). God exists everywhere (Psalm 139:7-12), knows everything (Psalm 147:5; Isaiah 40:28), and has all power and authority (Ephesians 1; Revelation 19:6). Who is God? - His Character Here are some of God’s characteristics as revealed in the Bible: God is just (Acts 17:31), loving (Ephesians 2:4-5), truthful (John 14:6), and holy (1 John 1:5). God shows compassion (2 Corinthians 1:3), mercy (Romans 9:15), and grace (Romans 5:17). God judges sin (Psalm 5:5) but also offers forgiveness (Psalm 130:4). Who is God? - His Work We cannot understand God apart from His works, because what God does flows from who He is. Here is an abbreviated list of God’s works, past, present, and future: God created the world (Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 42:5); He actively sustains the world (Colossians 1:17); He is executing His eternal plan (Ephesians 1:11) which involves the redemption of man from the curse of sin and death (Galatians 3:13-14); He draws people to Christ (John 6:44); He disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:6); and He will judge the world (Revelation 20:11-15). Who is God? - A Relationship with Him In the Person of the Son, God became incarnate (John 1:14). The Son of God became the Son of Man and is therefore the “bridge” between God and man (John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). It is only through the Son that we can have forgiveness of sins (Ephesians 1:7), reconciliation with God (John 15:15; Romans 5:10), and eternal salvation (2 Timothy 2:10). In Jesus Christ “all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9). So, to really know who God is, all we have to do is look at Jesus. Who is God? - Revealed by the prophets & apostles as the Trinity (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) 1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5). 2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity. In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity. 3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity-the Father. 4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16). 5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14. 6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things. The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent. The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit. There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration. The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34). Those who worship a god or gods other the Triune God of the Bible are doomed to damnation to an eternal hell (see our playlist "Dealing with Hell, Lake of Fire, Unpopular Bible Doctrines" with 33 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLE04A1D0DFE95B95E. There is only one God (Is. 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5) in all existence and in all time (Psalm 90:2) with God being a trinity of three distinct persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and not three gods. Recommended Resources: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions by Millard Erickson , The Forgotten Trinity by James White & our playlist " Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 55 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB. Titus 1:9-16

I know the Holy Spirit has many similarities with God. All I need is a short answer with proof. Where in the Bible does it say that the Holy Spirit is God?

Just because Jesus talked to God the Father does not make Him any less than God in divine essence (Philippians 2:6-11) & the eternal Son of God from all eternity (Hebrews 13:8, " Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever", Hebrews 7:3, "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually", etc. - see also "What is the doctrine of eternal Sonship and is it biblical?" at www.gotquestions.org/eternal-Sonship.html). The proper understanding of the Biblical nature of God is all that is required to grasp this concept. Once you understand that God has revealed Himself in scripture as three eternally distinct persons within the nature of the One True God then the question about Jesus being God the Son yet talking to God the Father is cleared up. The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other yet identical in essence. In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the other persons of the Trinity. Each has a will, loves, and says, "I" and "You" when speaking. The Father is not the same person as the Son, who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, and who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods but one God. There are three individual subsistences or persons. The word "subsistence" means something that has a real existence. The word "person" denotes individuality and self-awareness. The Trinity is three of these though the latter term has become the dominant one used to describe the individual aspects of God known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Included in the doctrine of the Trinity is a strict monotheism which is the teaching that there exists in all the universe a single being known as God who is self-existent and unchangeable (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 8). Therefore, it is important to note that the doctrine of the trinity is not polytheistic as some of its critics proclaim. Trinitarianism is monotheistic by definition, and those who claim it is polytheistic demonstrate a lack of understanding of what it really is. The Trinity God is three persons. Each person is divine. There is only one God. Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God. When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals. But in God there are not three entities nor three beings. God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons. Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead. Each of the three persons is not the other two persons. Each of the three persons is related to the other two but are distinct from them. The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible, but this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "Bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere" are not found in the Bible either, but we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Is there subordination in the Trinity? There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity regarding order but not substance or essence. We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 15:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26, 15:26). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16). This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine. For example, we see that the Father sent the Son, but this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature. The Son is equal to the Father in His divinity but inferior in His humanity. A wife is to be subject to her husband, but this does not negate her humanity, essence, or equality. By further analogy, a king and his servant both share human nature. Yet, the king sends the servant to do his will. Jesus said, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me," (John 6:38). Of course Jesus already is King, but the analogy shows that because someone is sent, it doesn't mean they are different from the one who sent him. Critics of the Trinity will see this subordination as proof that the Trinity is false. They reason that if Jesus were truly God, then He would be completely equal to God the Father in all areas and would not, therefore, be subordinate to the Father in any way, but this objection is not logical. If we look at the analogy of the king and the servant, we certainly would not say that the servant was not human because he was sent. Being sent does not negate sameness in essence. Therefore, the fact that the Son is sent does not mean that He is not divine any more than when my wife sends me to get bread, I am not human. Is this confusing? Another important point about the Trinity is that it can be a difficult concept to grasp, but this does not necessitate an argument against its validity. On the contrary, the fact that it is difficult is an argument for its truth. The Bible is the self-revelation of an infinite God. Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand--especially when dealing with an incomprehensible God who exists in all places at all times. So, when we view descriptions and attributes of God manifested in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we discover that a completely comprehensible and understandable explanation of God's essence and nature is not possible. What we have done, however, is derive from the Scripture the truths that we can grasp and combine them into the doctrine we call The Trinity. The Trinity is, to a large extent, a mystery. After all, we are dealing with God Himself. It is the way of the cults to reduce Biblical truth to make God comprehensible and understandable by their minds. To this end, they subject God's Word to their own reasoning and end in error. The following verses are often used to demonstrate that the doctrine of the Trinity is indeed Biblical: Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons." 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." Eph. 4:4-7, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift." 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure." Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." __________________ Sources: Baker's Dictionary of Theology, Everett Harrison, ed. Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1960. Berkhoff's Systematic Theology, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1988. Grudem, Wayne, Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1994. Hodge's Systematic Theology, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1981. For much more on this topic see "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?" at www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html & our playlist "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 50 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB. At the same time Jesus Himself claimed to be God in the flesh thus unless someone wants to call Jesus a liar then they are forced to accept His testimony. Did Jesus really say He was God? That’s exactly how Jesus’ original audience seemed to take it when He said, “I and the Father are one.” In fact, the Jews were ready to kill Him right there! Why? “Because you,” they said, “a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). On another occasion, He used the personal name of Israel’s God-the name revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14)-to refer to Himself. And He even used the Torah for context, so no one would misunderstand Him: “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). This would be about wild as telling a Muslim, “I am your God, Allah.” Don’t try that in Saudi Arabia! It’s no wonder the Jews tried to stone Him to death. That was the exact penalty for blasphemy under the Jewish legal system. So, he wasn’t saying something like “I’m some other, generic god” like he was advocating polytheism. Not at all. It was pretty clear to everyone there that He was being much more specific… Jesus was saying, “I am Israel’s God.” So did Jesus say He was God? Not in the way you might have expected him to. But as Dr. Michael Kruger says, “We should not confuse the directness of a claim with the existence of a claim.” The historical evidence shows that Jesus actually claimed to be the God of Israel. But Jesus didn’t have to say the words “I am God,” in order to claim to be divine. But why is this a problem? Look, I don’t have to say the exact words, “I am married” to indicate that I’m married. I can tell you, “I’m her husband,” or “this is my wife,” or “it’s our 12th wedding anniversary.” The question is, what did the people who were actually a part of conversation think about what Jesus said? “Jesus didn’t have to say the exact words ‘I am God’ in order to claim to be divine." (For more on this see "IS Jesus God?" at carm.org/jesus-god & "Is Jesus God in the flesh?" at www.gotquestions.org/God-in-the-flesh.html). Jesus often showed people, by his actions, that he had divine authority. For example, he claimed to forgive sin (Mark 2:1-12)-something which Jews beleived only God had the authority to do. He also clarified what you could and couldn’t do on the Sabbath. By the way, keeping the Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments. Who’s got the authority to lay down the law when it comes to obeying the 10 commandments? Jesus also called himself the “Lord of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:28). Question: Who runs the Sabbath? Um… that would be God. So Why Don’t People Get It? Honestly, some never look into it. It’s interesting how so many intelligent people seem allow pop culture to form their opinions on the history of Christianity. Others never look into it honestly. But some will actually be open-minded, looking into the data for themselves and give the Bible a fair hearing. Why don’t some of these people get it right away? Jesus claimed to be God in ways that were pretty clear to the people He was talking to. Our problem as 21st century readers, is that we might not easily get what some of Jesus’ sayings actually meant to the people who were part of the conversation. For example, Jesus also claimed to be divine when He said He was the “Son of Man.” I’ll admit that the first time I heard this title, I thought it was kind of like Muhammad saying, “I am but a man like you” (Qur’an 41:6)-Now there’s a religious figure who never claimed to be God! But this isn’t what Jesus meant at all. Let’s take a look at the term, “Son of Man.” Jesus claimed to be the Son of Man “Son of man” was often just used to refer to a regular guy, but many times when Jesus used it, he was referring to a very specific “Son of Man;” The “Son of Man” the prophet Daniel talked about back in the day. Interestingly, this seems to be Jesus’ favorite thing to call Himself-He uses it 80 times in the New Testament Gospels. And it’s only used 1 time outside the gospels (Acts 7:56). So this probably wasn’t something the church made up. Think about it: How many modern worship songs can you think of that use the term, “Son of Man?” So this title probably didn’t emerge later on in history and it probably wasn’t written back into the earlier traditions about Jesus. But why is this reference to a specific “Son of Man” important? Because it’s referring to a figure that Jews recognized as having divine authority. Here’s what the Jewish prophet Daniel wrote (7:13-14): In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Here’s my point: The “Son of Man” in Daniel’s vision is rightful heir to the divine throne. According to the prophecy, He’ll rule forever. Nations will worship Him and His kingdom will be unstoppable. (see our video "SUPERNATURAL BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING JESUS THE JEWISH MESSIAH (PART #2)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SC2qgY1X4Xw.html). Keep that in mind for a minute. I’m going somewhere with this… Jesus claimed to be the Divine Messiah Back to my family get-together. I asked the lady where she heard that Jesus never claimed to be God. I let her talk and explain her ideas. Then, I gently took my Bible back from her and asked, “Could you read this for me?” I turned to Jesus’ trial, as recorded by Mark (14:60-64). She read the record of Jesus’ cross-examination: Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” They all condemned him as worthy of death. (63-64). Jesus publicly claimed to be the Messiah. He claimed to be the Son of God. He even used the divine name in His answer: “I AM.” Now, at the very least, Jesus answered, “Yeah, I’m the Messiah. I’m the Son of God.” At that point, the High Priest probably thought something like, “Gotcha!” But then, Jesus follows up with, “I’m also the Son of Man. And you’ll see me seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” That’s when people freaked out. Why? Saying you’re going to be “sitting at the right hand of power” is a massive claim of exaltation that’s super-offensive to the Jewish leadership because of the strong conviction that there is only one God-who doesn’t share space or power. Saying you’re going to be “coming on the clouds” is also pretty wild because, to Jews, that’s totally a God thing. To the Jewish leadership, Jesus basically said, “Look, there’s going to be another trial one day. And you won’t be judging me. You know that guy in Daniel’s vision? That’s me.” The high priest didn’t misunderstand Him for a second. The guy’s response was essentially, “Yikes! You just said you’re God and everyone should worship you!” While some may choose to reject the high view of Jesus in the Gospel of John, it seems tough to give Mark a fair reading without acknowledging this scene. But all this just expressed what Jesus already seemed to assume by walking around and doing the things He did-things like claiming to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-11, Luke 5:20-24). Heaven and earth come together in the title, “Son of Man.” As Darrell Bock says: “Here was a human figure who also possessed divine authority. Jesus chose this name [Son of Man] for himself because it was the perfect mix of who he was-a human figure who also possessed the functions of God.”[1] Jesus said He was God through His words and actions If you’re willing to look at the historical record, you’ll find that there’s a reasonable explanation for the early Christian belief that Jesus was divine: Jesus Himself said He was. Even people who hated Jesus attest to the fact that this is what He said about Himself. And He certainly didn’t object when people worshiped Him or called Him God (John 20:28-29). So if anyone ever asks you, “Did Jesus Say He Was God?” You can answer, “He said it through a combination of his words and actions.” Just be ready to mention at least a couple of these talking points. It doesn’t hurt to memorize at least a couple of the Scripture references, too. Try it! (see "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?" at www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html; see our video "IS JESUS GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE FLESH MEANING THE SECOND PERSON OF THE TRINITY OR IS HE SOMETHING ELSE?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_BlPm7M7uv8.html). [1] Darrell Bock. Jesus the Christ: Reasons to Believe. Dallas Theological Seminary. p.9 For more information go to our website www.BibleQuery.org (particularly notice our newsletter section & look for our newsletter on "The Trinity" & our newsletter on "Oneness Pentecostals"). 2 Corinthians 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen."

Good debate! Another victory for the Truth.

Proving the the nature of the God-head is unbelievably easy and simple, for instance, Isaiah 42:8 48:11-12 {God will never share his glory} I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, and I will not give my glory unto another. I am he; I am the first, I also am the Last. Revelation 1: 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty. Philippians 2:5-7 {of what did he empty himself} Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man: {The Greek reads as follows} Who in form of God subsisting not rapinesteemed it to be equal with god; but himself emptied. John 14:28 {Jesus in human form occupies a lower position then the Father} "You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'" Hebrews 2:9 {Jesus Humbled himself while walking among us} But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone Galatians 4:4 {Jesus set aside his divine nature to be born as a human} But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, Colossians 2:9 {Yet he was still GOD} For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, John 17:5 {God shares his glory} {of his right to exercise his deity} And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Matthew 28:18 {which he takes up after the resurrection} And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, all power {authority} is given (surrendered) unto me in heaven and in earth. Revelation 1: 11-14, 22:13, 16 {Jesus assumes his correct position as GOD} Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: … And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;… And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end the first and the last… >> have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. Revelation 1:17-18 {John states Jesus is the First and the Last?} And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, fear not; I am the first and last: I am he that liveth, and was…………….. Dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, A-men; and have the keys of hell and of death …..When did the First and the Last (GOD), the Beginning and the End (GOD), the Alpha and Omega (GOD) taste death? John 1:1, 2,3,14 {John calls Jesus God} In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton Theon kai theos was the Word . ἦν ὁ Λόγος. en ho Logos He was in [the] beginning with God. All things through him came into being, and without him came into being not even one [thing] which has come into being. And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us, Matthew 26:53 (Jesus was obedient to what was prophesied) Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?”… Daniel 7:13-14, (Daniel fore saw all this) In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” …..This explains how Jesus created all Hebrews 1:10 {The Father tells us the SON created all} And, Thou, Lord, {kurios} in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Colossians 1:16-17 {Paul states Jesus created all things} In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins. Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him. And for him: And he is before all things. And by him all things consist. John 1:3, 14 {John states Jesus created all things} All things through him came into being, and without him came into being not even one [thing] which has come into being. And the Word flesh became, and tabernacled among us, Isaiah 42:5 44:22 {The Holy Spirit states God created all things} Psalm 104:5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heaven alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; Who laid the foundations of the earth, Genesis 1:1 ( So who is GOD) In the beginning God ( 'ĕlôhîym (el-o-heem') Plural ) created the heaven and the earth. Jeremiah 32:17 Ah Lord God! Behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee. In His Service,

@afterray The apostle Paul - "Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teachest, but which the Holy Ghost teachest: comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him." (1 Cor 2:11-14)

President Barack Hussein Obama (Barack is an African name meaning "blessed,"; his middle name Hussein is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hassan, this name was not used in the pre-Islamic period, and is recorded to have been first used by the Islamic prophet Muhammad when he named his grandson Husayn ibn Ali, saying he had been commanded to do so by the archangel Gabriel; his last name is an ancient Kenyan surname found frequently among the Luo, the third largest ethnic group in Kenya - sources : Dictionary.com & Wikipedia) says Orlando jihad killer inspired by “propaganda and perversions of Islam.” Exactly how was the Orlando jihad massacre a perversion of Islam? Obama didn’t say, of course. It would have been refreshing if he had actually addressed the fact that the Qur’an says: “If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.” (4:16) The Qur’an also depicts Allah raining down stones upon people for engaging in homosexual activity: “We also sent Lot. He said to his people: “Do you commit lewdness such as no people in creation committed before you? For you practise your lusts on men in preference to women: you are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds….And we rained down on them a shower of brimstone: Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!” (7:80) Muhammad makes clear that Muslims should be the executors of the wrath of Allah by killing gays. A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.” (Abu Dawud 38:4447) And: “Stone the upper and the lower, stone them both.” (Ibn Majah 3:20:2562) Perversion of Islam? How? No Islamic apologist has yet explained why, if Muhammad said that Muslims should kill gays, that they actually should not do so. In February 1998, the Taliban (who the Afghan immigrant father of the Orlando killer thought was great) who once ruled in Afghanistan, ordered this punishment for three men convicted of sodomy: On Wednesday, the Taleban ordered the execution of three men for sodomy in the southern town of Kandahar, southern Afghanistan. They were ordered to be buried alive under a pile of stones and a wall was pushed on top of them by a tank. Their lives were to be spared if they survived for 30 minutes and were still alive when the stones were removed. Simple and clear reason says that executing homosexuals is wrong today, but where do the Taliban get the punishment of pushing a wall on the guilty men? Also, the article reports that while the religious police were meting out a flogging on a woman for fornication, a speaker chanted, "Thanks to God that we are followers of God not of the West." This devout Muslim understands the deeper, spiritual conflict-two religious systems are at work. In its 1991 Constitution, Iran adopted the extreme punishment of execution for sodomy. Articles 108-113 say: Sodomy is a crime, for which both partners are punished. The punishment is death if the participants are adults, of sound mind and consenting; the method of execution is for the Shari'a judge to decide. Various authoritative Islamic hadiths confirm that homosexuals should be killed under Islamic sharia law. The hadith are the reports of Muhammad’s words and actions outside of the Quran. The four most reliable hadith collectors and editors are Bukhari (d. 870), Muslim (d. 875), Abu Dawud (d. 875), and Tirmidhi (d. 892), who was a student of Bukhari. The Quran and the hadith are the foundations for later legal rulings. But in the matter of homosexuality, the Quran is not as clear, so the hadith guides Islam more clearly. Here's just a couple of examples: The Sunan Abu Dawud, named after its editor, is another reliable collection of hadith. Ibn Abbas reports the following about early Islam and Muhammad’s punishment of homosexuals: . . . "If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done" (vol. 3, p. 145, no. 4447). The next one from the same collection says that an unmarried man who commits sodomy should be stoned to death: "Ibn Abbas said: if a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death" (vol. 3, p. 1245, no. 4448). Finally, Muhammad Aashiq Illahi Muhajir Madani, a modern-day Mufti (jurist), wrote Illuminating Discourses on the Noble Quran, 2nd ed. trans. and ed. Mufti A. H. Elias, (Karachi: Pakistan, Zam Zam, 2003). In his commentary on Sura 4:15-16, he is open to the interpretation that the two verses speak of homosexuality, so he provides two hadith that he considers reliable, which deal with punishing homosexuals (vol. 2, pp. 365-69). This early ruling repeats the one that homosexuals must be burned: With regard to the method in which these people [homosexuals] are to executed, Abu Bakr after consulting with Ali and other Sahaaba [companions of Muhammad], ruled that they be burnt. Mufti Madani’s next citation says that convicted homosexuals should undergo this terrible punishment (cf. Maududi vol. 2, p. 52, note 68): . . . Ibn Abbas ruled that they be thrown headlong from the highest summit. For more on the subject of Islam and homosexuality see the following: "Understanding the Ramadan Massacre at a Gay Nightclub in Orlando (David Wood)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-a13Rj5yrAhg.html & www.answering-islam.org/Aut…/Arlandson/homosexual.htm. Always keep in mind that there is no Golden Rule in Islam meaning Muslims only have to respect other people that they believe are true Muslims & all the rest are considered to be unbelievers (kafir) & can be lied to if necessary in any situation (for more on this see "Bill Warner, PhD: Sacred Deception -- Taqiyya" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Vg5TY5CPrzk.html). Islamic ethics include deceiving the kafir. The doctrine of deception is found in the Sunna and the Qur'an. The Arabic name for sacred deception is called taqiyya. See also "What Is Taqiyya?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6F4wBeshTsw.html & the websites www.AnsweringMuslims.com & www.thereligionofpeace.com/. 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Steve McCalip has proven that he does not understand the scriptures old or new. He would read the verse and proceeds to contradict the same scriptures he finished reading. He kept saying "my doctrine" which its true , it is his doctrine , but its surely not the word of God. He failed BIG TIME! Mark McNeil on the hand stood his ground on what the word of God teachings on the Trinity and passed with flying colors. Praise God, Father , Son, and Holy Spirit, the etrenal One!!!

Your statement shows you are a Muslim. The Qur'an says to consult Christians & Jews in Sura 10:94. From watching this Bible debate did you get the impression that Christians believe in 3 gods (Father, Mary & Jesus)as Mohammad taught in Sura 5:73-75, 116. If Christians don't believe this is Mohammad wrong? The Qur'an says creation was done by Allah in 8 days in Sura 41:9,10,12 yet in Suras 7:54 & Sura 10:3 it says creation was done in 6 days. Is the Qur'an wrong here & if so which Sura is false?

I listened to this debate and it amazing how the Oneness Doctrine just Dodges Questions they don't have answers to. They don't have an answer for John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me?"

A free transcript of "SPIRITUAL COUNTERFEIT: ONENESS PENTECOSTALISM DENIES THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY" is available at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52015115043. Once there scroll down to "Sermon Transcription" where you have the following options: 1. View transcript, 2. Download PDF, 3. Send to Kindle, or 4. Google Translation making this message transcription available in 27 foreign languages. Everything is free with nothing to buy. 2 Timothy 2:15

The Bible makes a distinction between Jesus and the Holy Spirit in a number of ways. They include the following: 1. Jesus Was Led Of Spirit And Full Of The Spirit. After Jesus' baptism He was said to be full of the Holy Spirit and led by the Holy Spirit. Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil (Matthew 4:1). Luke writes. Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness (Luke 4:1). He did not fill or lead Himself. 2. He Was Given The Holy Spirit Without Measure. The Bible says that Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure. He who has received his testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true. For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for he gives the Spirit without measure (John 3:33,34). Jesus is not equated with the Holy Spirit. 3. The Spirit Will Testify Of Jesus The Bible says that the Spirit will testify of Jesus, not of Himself. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever he hears, he will speak; and he will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify me, for he will take of mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are mine; therefore I said that he takes of mine and will disclose it to you (John 16:13-16). This makes another clear distinction between the two of them. Summary Scripture makes a distinction between the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Bible says that Jesus was led of the Spirit - he did not lead himself. Jesus was also filled with the Holy Spirit - he was not filled with himself. Also the Bible says that Jesus was given the Holy Spirit. In addition, the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will testify of Jesus not of himself. Jesus was never said to be the Holy Spirit. Consequently we conclude that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person from Jesus. The Holy Spirit is almost the forgotten member of the Trinity. Christians know that He is a member of the Godhead. But, too many Christians know very little about Him? is the Holy Spirit a force like radar? Is He alive? Or, is He a person like the Father and Son? Though many think they know, a lot do not. The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Christadelphians teach that He is a force like radar. They are wrong. The Mormons teach that He is a male personage of flesh and bones. Actually, the Mormons teach that the Holy GHOST is a god, the male personage, and the Holy SPIRIT is the presence of God the Father. They also are wrong. The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all creation, all time, and all places. This one God exists as three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each person is not the same person as the other, yet there are not three gods, but one. The Holy Spirit is just as much God as is the Father and the Son. But remember, there are not three gods, but One. The bible has many references to the Holy Spirit and a quick examination of them reveals many interesting characteristics about Him. The Holy Spirit is mentioned on equal level with God - Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." The Holy Spirit is referred to as a person by scripture - Rom. 8:11, "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." The Holy Spirit grieves - Isaiah 63:10, "But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit. Therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them." And, Eph. 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." The Holy Spirit loves - Rom. 15:30, "Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me." The Holy Spirit has a mind - Rom. 8:27, "and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God." The Holy Spirit speaks - Acts 8:29, "And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot." And, Acts 13:2, "And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, 'Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.'" It should be very obvious that the Holy Spirit has self identity, is aware, and is not merely a force because a force doesn't speak, love, grieve, and have a mind. But the cults tend to ignore these verses and tell us that the Spirit is nothing more than some presence or power. Sure, the Spirit is a presence and a power, but that is not all He is. He is the third person in the Trinity. He is the one who applies the redemptive work of Christ to the believer. He is the one who convicts the world of sin (John 16:8), who teaches (John 14:26; 15:26), and who anoints (1 John 2:27). But, the Holy Spirit is also humble because He points to Jesus (John 15:26). Therefore, anyone who is truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit will likewise bear witness of Jesus. Okay, so what is the devotional aspect here? Simple, the Holy Spirit indwells you and convictions of righteousness and sin. The Holy Spirit is very active in working in your lives as Christians to bring you into a closer relationship with Jesus. We should know more about the One who makes so much possible with our Savior. For more see our playlist called, "Dealing with anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 71 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB 2 Corinthians 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

The Qur’an shows great respect for the Bible & the teachings of Jesus & doesn't say the Bible is SATANIC like you. When the Qur’an speaks of the "people of the book", it is referring to Jews and Christians, because the Bible, and not other religious books, are recognized as from God. Jesus was taught the Gospel according to Sura 3:48, and Christians are the people of the Gospel in Sura 5:46. ‘Aisha says Mohammed listened to the Gospels being read in Arabic (Bukhari vol.4:605 also Sahih Muslim).

@ChristusVlCTOR Trinitarians believe there is only one God (Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit - Matthew 28:19) but not as "Oneness" heretics do. "Oneness" heretics such as Steve McCalip in this debate believe that the Father is Jesus & the Father is the Holy Spirit which is not what the Bible clearly teaches. John 17:5 is a prime example of this, "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Jesus here is not the Father & is distinct.

Nice analysis.

To deal with a major Muslim erroneous argument see our videos: "Why the Islamic Prophet Mohammad & the Baha'i Prophet Bahá'u'lláh are NOT in the Bible (Part #1)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qP_cUAyn5R0.html & "Muhammad is NOT in the Bible & the Bahai Bahaullah is NOT in the New Testament (Part #2)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-prCmOfEc3Ok.html. Please notice that we have produced 67 videos on the subject of Islam on our playlist called, "Dealing with Islam, Muslims: Sunni, Shi'ite, Alawites, Sufis" with 59 hours of teaching material at ru-vid.com/group/PL1C7F68B548009FDD. Next please notice that we have created an entire website devoted to investigating the validity of Islam at www.muslimhope.com/. Besides our ministry, "Acts 17 Apologetics" (ru-vid.com) on RU-vid has many useful videos on the subject of Islam such as: 1. "Who Killed Muhammad?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6st_tFj6ouM.html 2. "Top Ten Reasons Muhammad Is Not a Prophet" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MO8sZ1JyP1A.html 3. "Ten MORE Reasons Muhammad Is Not a Prophet at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-T4p7HuuhF8k.html & 4. "Muhammad, Cross-Dressing, and the London Muslim Patrol" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UlSknRlQSqs.html. Islam is a religion that we are well aware of & have investigated fully based on many years of research. Either all religions are false or only one of them can be true. Based on researched evidence, Islam is easily found to be completely false (see "The Quran, the Bible, and the Islamic Dilemma" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nNAS0aaViM4.html). Since Muslims the world over consider the Qur’an their book from Allah we need to check out its claims. The numerous contradictions it contains can be categorized into six (6) groups: Scientific Contradictions Historical Contradictions Geographical Contradictions Theological / Ethical Contradictions Contradictions with the Biblical statement Internal Contradictions Scientific Contradictions Sura 27:18-19 records that King Solomon overheard a conversation between ants. This is scientifically impossible as ants use smell, not sound, to communicate and the context of the story indicates that this is not a miracle of Allah! Sura 51:49 reveals that everything was made in pairs. Whilst there are many things that are made in pairs, there are many that have no counterpart, and there are species where there is only one gender such as starfish and sea anemones. Sura 18:85-86 reveals that the Sun sets in a muddy pool. Historical Contradictions Sura 20:85-87, 95-97 reveals that a Samaritan molded the calf that the Israelites worshiped in Moses’ time. This is an historical impossibility as Samaritans wouldn’t exist for another 500-700 years. Sura 28:38 states that Haman was a chief minister of Pharaoh in Egypt. Historically, Haman was the minister of a Persian King, Ahasuerus, called King Xerxes I by the Greeks. He lived about a thousand years after the time of Moses, but the Qur’an says this Persian minister, Haman, lived in Egypt at the time of Moses. Sura 66:12 reveals that Mary [the Biblical Miriam and sister of Aaron and Moses] is the same as the virgin Mary [the mother of Jesus]. Some Muslim scholars try to explain that Mary was only a sister/daughter in a figurative sense because Aaron and Mary were both saints. To the ill-informed, it sounds plausible, but in fact this is not the case at all. Sura 3:32-35 relates that Imran’s [the father of Aaron] family was one of the preferred above all creation. Imran’s wife fell pregnant and gave birth to Mary, who became mother of Jesus. More than 1500 years separated Mary the mother of Jesus, and Miriam [Aaron and Moses’ sister]. Geographical Contradictions Sura 36:37/38 reveals that the sun goes to a place of rest at night. Baidawi said that the phrase, ‘the sun runs to a fixed resting place’, means to a certain limit at which its daily cycle comes to an end. Sura 18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. Even school children know that it is the earth that moves, not the sun. Sura 2:187 commands Muslims to fast between sunrise and sunset. How is this possible near the North and South Poles when the sun doesn’t go below the horizon for months at a time? Theological/Ethical Contradictions Sura 5:116; 4:171 and 5:73 reveal that Christians allegedly believe that there are three gods: God, Mary and Jesus. Consequently, Muhammad repeated over and over that God is one. However, no Christian believes that there are three Gods. In fact, they expressly deny it, while affirming their belief in the Trinity. Sura 6:12 reveals that people are to be blamed for belief and disbelief but, in Sura 10:100, Allah is responsible. In Sura 31:15, a Muslim is permitted to keep some sort of kindly relation with non-Muslim parents. However, in Sura 9:23, a Muslim is not allowed to befriend unbelieving parents. Sura 4:78 reveals that both good and evil come from Allah; but in Sura 4:79 only good comes from Allah. Adultery is forbidden in Sura 25:68 and 60:12. But in Sura 24:33, Allah allows non-forced prostitution and concubines in Sura 70:29-32. There is no compulsion in Islam according to Sura 2:256; but in Sura 9:5, 8:39, 65, and 67, Allah commands Muslims to fight against unbelievers until they either convert or die. Murder is forbidden in Sura 5:30 etc, but murder for the sake of Allah is permitted against unbelievers, e.g. Sura 9:5; 8:39, 65, 67; 2:191, 217 Contradictions with the Bible Because Muslims believe that the Christian Bible is corrupt, they have no problem with the Qur’an contradicting the Bible - but this denies that Allah is capable of protecting his word. Internal Contradictions Muhammad claimed to be the first Muslim (Sura 6:14, 161-164; 39:11-12). But in Sura 30:30 and 7:172 everyone is born a Muslim and many people are described as Muslims: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (2:127-133;3:67); Jesus (Sura 3:52); the disciples of Jesus (3:52; 5:110-111); Solomon (27:30-31, 42-44); Moses the first of believers (7:143); Moses’ mother (28:7); Aaron (7:121-122); others at the same time as Moses and Aaron (40:28-35, 36-38) and all Jews before they went astray (22:78) etc. In fact, all the prophets were Muslims (see Sura 2:140; 3:81). On the one hand there is a minimum age of marriage (Sura 4:6) [usually regarded as puberty or 15 years of age], but Sura 65:4 contains directives for the divorce of girls who are too immature to menstruate. Sura 2:221 forbids Muslims marrying non-Muslims but Sura 5:5 allows it. According to Sura 2:106 and 16:101, Allah changes his revelations with something better; but in 10:65, there is no change in the word of Allah. Sura 2:106 teaches that Allah causes people to forget his commandments/revelation whereas Sura 6:68 says the devil causes them to forget Allah’s command not to sit with disbelievers. In Sura 2:122; 2:47; 44:30-32; 45:16; Allah prefers Jews above all people, but in 62:6, it appears that he disapproves of them, threatening them with death and turning them into pigs and monkeys (Sura 5:60; 2:65; 98:6 etc). Sura 3:55 teaches those who follow Jesus [Christians] are above those who disbelieve till the Last Day and 2:62 teaches that Christians will not grieve on the Day of Judgment-but in 98:6 Allah reveals that Christians are the worst of all creatures and abide in hell. In Sura 4:48, 116 teaches that Allah can forgive every sin except ascribing a partner to him; but in 6:76-78 Abraham ascribed a star, the moon, and the sun to Allah, but Allah still forgave him. Moreover, in 4:153, the Israelites worshiped the calf and Allah forgave them. Muslims are to get truth and wisdom confirmed from Christians and Jews (Sura 10:94 and 5:47), but in Sura 9:30; 2:65; and 98:6, Christians and Jews are deluded! The Qur’an claims that none can change the Word of God. (Sura 6:115-116; 10:65; 18:27-28; 48:23). However, as seen earlier, the Qurán teaches that the Jews corrupted the words of the Scriptures (Sura 2:41/42; 3:71, 3:78, 4:46) and even Allah needed to change his words (Sura 2:106; 16:101) Sura 22:52 admits that Satan sometimes influences the content of the revelation, but Allah abolishes it. Conclusion These are just some of a plethora of internal contradictions. If God can so change his mind, his promises cannot be trusted with certainty. The God of Christians, however, cannot lie (Titus 1:2 etc.) and promises eternal life (Titus 1:2 and others). More than that, he promises that you can become a child of His (John 1:12). God makes many promises throughout Scripture, and asks to be held to them. The most important promise in Scripture is that "all who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved." (Acts 2:21). See our RU-vid channel at ru-vid.com for more information about the God Who actually exists in reality. John 14:6

Did you read my reply to "zia Alpa" concerning what the Qur'an says about the Bible? The Qur'an shows respect for the Bible. Muslims however disregard this fact (& indeed they have to) & say the Bible is corrupt, etc just like you're saying. The reason for this is simple, the Bible contradicts Islam on almost every major doctrine that Islam believes. The Bible & the Qur'an both cannot be true at the same time. To escape this problem Muslims say the Bible is corrupt thus contradicting the Qur'an.

@7pentecostal7 I'm not going to sit here everyday debating one verse after another with you (I have to respond to over 320 other of our posted videos also). The context of Acts 22:16 in relation to your question about "name" is found in Acts 22:8 thus Jesus is Lord, get it? This doesn't disprove the doctrine of the Trinity. Type "LARRY WESSELS TRINITY" in the RU-vid search box for much more on this topic. See also our website BIBLEQUERY ORG, click the "Experience" box on homepage & scroll down.

If Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, then what Spirit is the apostle Paul meaning, and which Lord, in the following verse? 2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Also, if Jesus is not the Holy Spirit then did the apostle Peter make a mistake? For he said that the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets that spoke of the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow: 1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Peter the apostle, in his second letter identified the same 'Spirit of Christ' as the Holy Ghost: 2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The Trinity doctrine categorically states that the Son is not the Holy Ghost, how then does this exemplify the above passages of scripture?

Isaiah 9:6...the everlasting Father could mean that Jesus is the continual leader that is mighy, strong, and brave and is the head of the Church. Searching the Hebrew meaning of these words gave me this definition.

For more on the Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity go to our website www.BibleQuery.org and once on our homepage scroll down to our newsletter section on the left side of the screen then click on our newsletters "The Trinity" & "Oneness Pentecostals." See also our playlist "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" on RU-vid at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB with 43 videos. What is the Trinity? The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other yet identical in essence. In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the other persons of the Trinity. Each has a will, loves, and says "I" and "You" when speaking. The Father is not the same person as the Son, who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, and who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods but one God. There are three individual subsistences or persons. The word "subsistence" means something that has a real existence. The word "person" denotes individuality and self-awareness. The Trinity is three of these though the latter term has become the dominant one used to describe the individual aspects of God known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Included in the doctrine of the Trinity is a strict monotheism which is the teaching that there exists in all the universe a single being known as God who is self-existent and unchangeable (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8). Therefore, it is important to note that the doctrine of the trinity is not polytheistic as some of its critics proclaim. Trinitarianism is monotheistic by definition, and those who claim it is polytheistic demonstrate a lack of understanding of what it really is. The Trinity God is three persons. Each person is divine. There is only one God. Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God. When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals. But in God there are not three entities nor three beings. God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons. Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead. Each of the three persons is not the other two persons. Each of the three persons is related to the other two but are distinct from them. The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible, but this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere" are not found in the Bible either; but we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Is there subordination in the Trinity? There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity regarding order but not substance or essence. We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 15:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16). This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine. For example, we see that the Father sent the Son, but this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature. The Son is equal to the Father in his divinity but inferior in his humanity. A wife is to be subject to her husband; but this does not negate her humanity, essence, or equality. By further analogy, a king and his servant both share human nature. Yet, the king sends the servant to do his will. Jesus said, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38). Of course Jesus already is King; but the analogy shows that because someone is sent, it doesn't mean they are different from the one who sent him. Critics of the Trinity will see this subordination as proof that the Trinity is false. They reason that if Jesus were truly God, then He would be completely equal to God the Father in all areas and would not, therefore, be subordinate to the Father in any way; but this objection is not logical. If we look at the analogy of the king and the servant, we certainly would not say that the servant was not human because he was sent. Being sent does not negate sameness in essence. Therefore, the fact that the Son is sent does not mean that He is not divine any more than when my wife sends me to get bread, I am not human. Is this confusing? Another important point about the Trinity is that it can be a difficult concept to grasp, but this does not necessitate an argument against its validity. On the contrary, the fact that it is difficult is an argument for its truth. The Bible is the self-revelation of an infinite God. Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand--especially when dealing with an incomprehensible God who exists in all places at all times. So, when we view descriptions and attributes of God manifested in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we discover that a completely comprehensible and understandable explanation of God's essence and nature is not possible. What we have done, however, is derive from the Scripture the truths that we can grasp and combine them into the doctrine we call The Trinity. The Trinity is, to a large extent, a mystery. After all, we are dealing with God Himself. It is the way of the cults to reduce biblical truth to make God comprehensible and understandable by their minds. To this end, they subject God's word to their own reasoning and end in error. The following verses are often used to demonstrate that the doctrine of the Trinity is indeed biblical: Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons." 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." Eph. 4:4-7, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift." 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure." Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." __________________ Sources: Baker's Dictionary of Theology, Everett Harrison, ed. Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1960. Berkhoff's Systematic Theology, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1988. Grudem, Wayne, Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1994. Hodge's Systematic Theology, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1981. Seven Simple Facts About the Trinity "Trinity" was a term used by Theophilus of Antioch (168-181/8 A.D.) and Tertullian (c.207 A.D). It describes seven Biblical facts. Are there any you have not seen before in the Bible? 1. There is an Undeniable "Threeness" in Scripture Mt 3:16-17; 28:19; 2 Cor 13:14; 1 Pet 1:2; Eph 2:18; 3:14-17; 1 Th 1:3-5; Rev 4:8; Rom 15:16; Heb 9:14; Jude 20,21; Isa 48:16; 2 Th 2:13-14; John 15:26. Is the work of our salvation at the cross a work of man or a work of God? 2. The Three Are Inseparable in Some Ways Mt 28:19; John 10:27-30; 12:44-46,49-50; 14:9-11; 15:26; 16:13-15; 17:10; Rom 8:9-11; 1 Cor 2:11-12. The Father & Jesus share at least 25 names and titles (Lord of Lords Rev 17:14; Dt 10:17, Alpha & Omega Rev 1:8;17-18). How often have you said the end of 1 Cor 12:3? 3. The Three Are Distinct in Some Ways Mt 3:16-17; Lk 3:21-22; Jn 1:1;6:38;14:31;15:26;16:28;17:5; Acts 5:31-32; Heb 5:7-8. Heaven was not empty when Jesus came to earth. The Three communicated when Jesus was baptized. 4. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God 1 Pt 1:2,3; Jn5:18;8:54 Heb 1:8-9; Rev 1:8; 22:12-16 Rom 8:9-16; 1 Cor 12:6,11 Ep 1:2-3,17;3:14;5:20 John 1:1,18; 20:28; Luke 1:35; 1 Cor 2:10-11 1Th1:1,3;3:11;Phm 3 Hosea 1:7, Is 7:14 1 John 4:12,13,15-16; Jn 14:16,26 2Th1:1; 2:16; Ga1:1,3 1 John 5:11,12, vs. 21 1 Cor 3:16 vs. 1 Cor 6:19 Titus 1:4; 1Cor1:3;8:6 Col 2:9 & Mt 1:23 Acts 5:3-4; Job 33:4; Ps 139:7-10 Ep3:11;Jn17:5 (eternal) Heb 7:3; 13:8 (eternal) Heb 9:14 (eternal) In some verses idols are referred to as gods, (Gen 31:30,3; 1 Cor 8:5) and in two places men are referred to as "gods" (Ps 82:6-7; Jn 10:34-36). "God" here though is defined as: 1) One whom we and all the world are created through. 2) Rightfully worshipped by angels and men. 3) Rightfully given praise and devotion by men. 4) Rightfully called our Lord and our God. By the above definitions, Christ is God according to the following scripture. 1) Jn 1:3; Col 1:16-17 (other in Jehovah's Witness New World Trans. is their own addition) 2) Heb 1:6,9 (proskuneo in Greek), Rev 5:8-9, John 9:38 3) 2 Cor 11:3 4) John 20:28-29; Heb 1:8-9; Rev 22:20; Php 2:11 (Lord). If you refuse to recognize Jesus in these four ways, there is no need to continue until you decide to repent and obey the Bible. God’s people in the Bible boast of and give glory to Jesus Christ. Do You? Gal 6:14, 1 Cor 1:23,30,31, 1 Cor 2:2, John 1:14, Php 2:10-11, 2 Peter 3:18. How many times have you boasted of what Paul boasted of in Gal 6:14? 5. There is only One God, Not Three Separate Ones Dt 4:35-9;6:4; Mk 12:29-33; Isa 43:10-2;44:6,8;45:5-6,14,21;46:9; Joe2:27;1Tm1:17;2:5;6:15-6 6. They are Co-equal in a Similar Way as a Father and Son Are Co-equal John 5:18; 5:23; Col 2:9-10; (Is 44:6; Rev 1:8 vs. Rev 1:17-18; 22:13) As John 5:18 shows, a father is equal in nature to the son he begets. Otherwise, your father must be greater than you, your grandfather greater than him, and your 100th ancestor must have been one super guy. People make things but "beget" only people. God made created things but "begets" only God, his only begotten Son. Shouldn't church worship be modeled after heavenly worship? If you have never sung or given glory to God and the Lamb, prayerfully read Rev 5:9,12-14. 7. They Differ in Role and Rank in a Similar Way as a Father and Son Differ 1 Cor 11:3; 15:25-28; Mt 12:18; Eph 1:17; John 1:33; 14:16,26,28; 20:17; Rom 8:26-27; 1 Peter 1:3-4. A Father is the head of a son, and God is the head of Christ. (1 Cor 11:3) Starting with Augustine, who did not know Greek and probably had not read Tertullian, some Christians tend to neglect the 7th fact. This tract has been endorsed by these University of Texas at Austin groups: Chinese Bible Study (CBS), Longhorn Life Campus Mission, the Navigators - UT, International Student Friendship Ministries, Baptist Student Union, and A.C.C.C.F. (1994) The Holy Spirit According to Genesis 1:1 the Holy Spirit moved over the waters. Jesus and believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does have the aspects of a force (like wind), or a thing (like water or oil). JW's believe that therefore, since the Holy Spirit has these aspects or a force or thing, the Spirit cannot have the aspects of a person. The last statement is merely human wisdom, not God's revealed truth. Whatever man may say or think, the Holy Spirit has the aspects of a person as shown in the following passages. A JW might argue these scriptures could mean the Holy Spirit is still a thing, but more like a radio that communicates, a robot that moves, or an artificial intelligence program that guides. However, being comforted by a comforter that is a thing is cold comfort indeed. Living by a thing, a thing being like a parent to us, being loved by a thing, and having fellowship with a thing seem rather inconsequential. To say that "the Holy Spirit is a thing, but God made it to appear like a person" sounds like calling God a trickster. Since the Holy Spirit is a force (whether personal or impersonal), either He is a Person and all the scriptures listed below are full of meaning, or else He is impersonal and I do not know what meaning these verses have for you. As a witness of Christ (Acts 1:8 Rev 20:4) as well as of Jehovah, I testify that the Holy Spirit guides me teaches me, and yes, even disciplines me in a Personal way. Better are even the discipline and rebuke from God's hand than the fairest pleasures apart from God's presence. Here are the verses: Parakletos (the comforter, the one John 14:16,26, John 15:26 along side us) Speaks to us Acts 13:2, Heb 3:7 Reminds us John 14:26 Like a parent, so we will not be John 14:18 orphans (orphanos in Greek) Guides us John 16:13 Teaches us John 14:26 1 Cor 2:13 Lives in us 1 Cor 3:16, 2 Tim 1:14, Rom 8:9,11, Eph 2:22 In our hearts 2 Cor 1:22 Gal 4:6 We live by the Spirit Gal 5:16,25 Led by the Spirit Gal 5:18 Rom 8:9 He intercedes for us Rom 8:26-27 Can be insulted Heb 10:29 Testifies of Christ John 15:26 Has a mind Rom 8:27 Can be grieved Is 63:10, Eph 4:30 Chooses who to give gifts 1 Cor 12:11 Possesses love Rom 15:30 Can think things are good Acts 15:28 Is given to us Rom 5:5, 1 John 4:13 Searches deep things of God 1 Cor 2:9-10 God in us 1 John 4:12-13,15-16, Rom 8:9-10, 1 Cor 3:16, 6:19, John 14:23, 15:4 With us always Mt 28:20 Groans (and thus cares) for us Rom 8:26-27 Gives joy 1 Thess 1:6 Does your religion ever make you feel lonely and alone? Christ promised not to leave us a orphans (orphanos in the Greek), but Christ promised to come to us. (John 14:18) That's right, Jesus Himself promised that he and the Father would actually live in us (John 14:23). Does Christ live in you? Perhaps you say he does not based on John 14:24. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit, for you can grieve Him (Ephesians 4:30). 1 Corinthians 3:16 declares that it is God's desired will that we be Temples of God, and that God's spirit dwells in us. To see how the Spirit can feel, read Romans 15:30, where Paul witnesses of the love of the Spirit. The phase "by the love of the Spirit" means a) the Spirit's love for us, b) our love for the Spirit, or c) both. If the Spirit has love for us, He is a Person. If you have (or at least you are supposed to have) a love for the Spirit like your love for Christ, then He is a Person. If c) is true, then... the case is closed. Do you love the Spirit? If not, I invite you to repent and pray the short prayer below. (A short note: Jesus in the Lord's prayer addressed the true God as "Our Father, who art (is) in heaven". Thus we can be confident that this is a proper way to address God and begin a prayer.) Our Father, who is in heaven, I want your name to be glorified upon the earth. I repent of relying on man's religious books above your Holy word. Forgive me of the false prophecies and teachings I have believed. For even the errors I believed in ignorance, I admit I did not check them against the truth of your Word. Jehovah God, I do not even think I can find the truth without your Spirit, which I have not asked to come in me. But now, Jehovah, I ask the Holy Spirit, your Spirit, to dwell in my life. You promised not to despise a contrite heart, so please teach me, and guide me out of my errors and sinful ways, that I would walk according to your Spirit and learn what is meant by the fellowship of the Spirit. In the name of Jesus Christ, whose shed blood opened up the way for me to be with you, I pray. Amen. If you have sincerely prayed this prayer then remember that God has promised the Spirit to all who earnestly seek Him. There is a very important book you just must read all the way through - the New Testament! If you cannot read ancient Greek (and most people cannot), I would suggest a translation done where all the translators knew Greek and Hebrew. Examples are the updated New American Standard, The New King James, or the New International Version. If you choose to read the Jehovah's Witnesses New World Translation, I need to tell you that one of the translators (Knorr) testified in a U.S. Court of Law that he did not even know Greek. Indwelling of the Trinity Indwelling, Not Mingling It is crucial to both understand the intimacy of the relationship between Jesus and the Father and between them and us. For each statement, there are specific meanings 4 , and limitations on meaning D . Italicized verses give examples, Tilde "~" verses indicate but do not prove, and the other verses prove the points. 1. As Jesus is In the Father, We Are In Jesus, and Jesus Is In Us ü There is a connection between these relationships: Father-Jesus, Jesus-Us, Us-Jesus. Jn14:20;17:23;6:57 D There is more to the Trinity than just this analogous relationship. Mt28:19;Jn1:1,18;Php2:6-7;Co1:15 ü 4 The Father, Jesus, and us all share some things, like eternal life.Jn16:13-15 The Father & Jesus "own" all in common. Jn16:15;17:10. The H.S. reveals this to us. Jn16:14-5 D The Father does not have some things we share with Jesus after His human birth. He1:6-10;2:14;7:3 2. As the Father and Jesus are One, We are to Be One ü We are to be one with each other in some ways similar to the Father and Jesus. Jn17:11,21-22 D They are One in some ways we cannot be one. Jn 5:23 3. The Father lives in Jesus ü On earth the Father lived in Jesus. Jn10:38;14:10-11. Jesus was filled with the Spirit. Lk4:1,18 ü If you really know Jesus, then you know the Father and have seen the Father. Jn14:7-9 D The Father did not become, progress, or turn into Jesus.He13:8;1:9;Jn14:10,24,26;15:1;16:27-8,32;17:5 4. Jesus lives in the Father ü On earth Jesus was in the Father. Jn10:38;14:11 D They are distinct; Jesus was not a ventriloquist. Mt3:16;Jn8:18. Jesus was forsaken at Calvary. Mk15:34;Mt27:46 ü No one comes to the Father except through Jesus. Jn14:6;6:45;~8:24;Ac3:12 D As close as they were on earth, Jesus still would be going to the Father. Jn14:12;Mk16:19;Jn20:11 ü Jesus is called Everlasting Father, which may refer to being the source of everlasting life. Is9:6 D Jesus did not become, progress, or turn into the Father. He13:8;~Re5:13;Jn20:17;14:10,24,26;15:1 5. God/Father/Christ/the Spirit is in Us ü People see God through us and in us. D God does not live solely in us, any more than stars exist solely in telescopes. 1Tm6:16;Jr23:24;Re19:11 ü Father/Jesus/the Spirit also actually dwells/makes their home in every believer. Jn14:17,23;17:26;Rm8:9-11;Ga3:6;1Cr6:19;1Jn4:15-16;2Tm1:14 D God/Father/Christ/Spirit did not become us, or turn into sinful man. Jas1:13;He4:15:1Pt2:22;1Jn3:5 ü God works and acts in us and through us. Php2:13;1Cr15:10;Rm15:18-19 ü God's people, the church, are together Christ's body. 1Cr6:15;10:17;12:27;Ep4:12;Co1:24. D We are not Christ's physical body. Co1:22. God is not limited to acting though us. Gen1;Ac9:1-6;Rev ü Helping/Not helping us is the same as to Jesus Christ. Mt25:35-45;Jn13:20;Ac9:4-5;22:7-8;26:14-15 D People can praise or revile God directly without doing things to believers. Rm1:18-32;Rv9:20-21 6. We Live in God/Father/Christ/the Spirit ü We are in Jesus and the Father. Jn17:21;Co2:6,12;3:3-4;1Jn4:12,15-16;5:20. ü We must remain in Jesus Christ and in His love. Jn15:1-9;1Jn2:27 D We are not fully with God now; we still need to go and be with God. 2Cr5:8;1Cr13:12;Php1:23 ü Because Jesus lives, we will live. Jn14:19;Co3:4;1Cr15:12-22;~1Th4:13-17 D We do not become, progress, evolve, or turn into God or Christ; rather we become godly and Christ-like. Is42:8;43:10;~Re7:13;Rm8:29;1Jn3:2;Php3:21 ü We're new creations in Christ. 2Cr5:17;~Rm7:1-6. We've the mind of Christ. 1Cr2:16;~Rm12:2 D We do not become zombies; we are still to have our own (renewed) minds & personalities.1Cr6:2-6;11:13;13:11+14:20;Rm14:5-6 Early Church Teaching on the Trinity The following church leaders of the early and post-Nicene church taught the doctrines of the Trinity. It is interesting to note that the Jehovah Witness Watchtower publication Can You Believe the Trinity? quotes most of these church fathers to attempt to show they did not believe in the Trinity. Leader References Statements and Beliefs Ignatius: disciple of John the Apostle died 107/116 17 places: Letter to Polycarp chapter 3 Ephesians 7 "Jesus is God" "God Incarnate" Diognetus (130) To Mathetes Christ sent as King, God, man, and savior Justin Martyr: died 110/114-165 Dialogue with Trypho ch. 55-56,59,61-64,66,74-78 "Deserving to be worshipped as God and Christ." Erred in thinking a time before Christ existed. Theophilus of Antioch (115-181) To Autolycus 2:22 what else is this voice [in the Garden of Eden] but the Word of God, who is also His Son? Tertullian died 200-220/240 Entire book Against Praxeus First to use the term Trinity. Irenaeus: disciple of John the Apos-tle. 120-202 Against Heresies 3:19:2 "Jesus is Himself in His own right, ...God, & Lord, ..." Clement of Alexan-dria 153-220 Stromata 5:14, The Instructor "the Holy Trinity" Hymn in praise of Jesus: "Lord of all time and space; Jesus Savior of our race;" Hippolytus disciple of Irenaeus 170-236 Against the Heresy of One Noetus "Son of God who, being God became man." Origen of Alexan-dria 184-254 de Principis 1.3.8 Origen was very contro-versial in his time, but his views on the Trinity were not questioned. "the power of the Trinity is one and the same." Origin erred on pre-existence of souls and eventual human universalism Novatian 210-280 Treatise on the Trinity enough said. Athanasius died 296-373 Sermon on Luke 10:22 United without confusion, distinguished without separation, Indivisible without degrees Basil of Cappadocia 329-379 Letter 8 to the Caesareans, On the Spirit The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God. Discusses Arian controversy Gregory of Nyssa 335-394 On Not Three Gods, Against Eunomius nature of the Father & Son is the same Hilary 353-368 Wrote a book on The Trinity Enough said Ambrose of Milan 340-397 On the Christian Faith Holy, Holy, Holy in Rev 4:8 referred to the Trinity. John Chrysostom 370-407 Homily 3 on John 1:1 Word’s eternity as a person; uncreated Augustine of Hippo 354-430 Book: On the Trinity Did not accept any difference in rank Nestorius: Council of Ephesus 431 Started Nestorianism His belief that Jesus was God was never criticized Cyril of Alexandria 431-444 Nestorius’ main opponent at the Council of Ephesus Started emphasis on Mary the mother of God. (unfortunately) Patrick of Ireland 389-461 did not write much famous cloverleaf analogy. The Church Fathers on the Trinity Ignatius (died 107/116) About the Lord’s second coming "Look for Him that is above the times, Him who has not times, Him who is invisible, Him who for our sakes became visible, Him who is impalpable [beyond touch], Him who is impassable [beyond passion], Him who for our sakes suffered, Him who endured everything in every for our sakes." Letter to Polycarp chapter 3. Diognetus to Mathetes (written 130) "As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so sent He Him; as God(1) He sent Him; as to men He sent Him; as a Saviour He sent Him,..." ch.7 The footnote (1) says "God" here refers to the person sent. Justin Martyr (110/114-165) "for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abcission, so as to lessen the word [which remains] in us, when we give it out; and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same;... The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter, will bear evidence to me..." Dialogue with Trypho ch. 61. Theophilus bishop of Antioch (115-181) "For the divine writing itself teaches us that Adam said that he had heard the voice. But what else is this voice but the Word of God, who is also His Son? To Autolycus 2:22 Tertullian (200-220/240) "The Word, therefore, is both always in the Father, as He says, ‘I am in the Father;’ and is always with God, according to what is written, ‘And the Word was with God;’ and never separate from the Father, or other than the Father, since ‘I and the Father are one.’" Against Praxeus chapter 8. Irenaeus (120-202) "But that He [Jesus] is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have obtained to even a small portion of the truth." (Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:19:2). "Know thou that every man is either empty or full. For if he has not the Holy Spirit, he has no knowledge of the Creator; he has not received Jesus Christ the life; he knows not the Father who is in heaven;..." (Against Heresies 3:16) "She [the church] also believes these points [of doctrine] just as if she had but one soul.... For the churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different nor do those in Spain nor those in Gaul, nor those in the East nor those in Egypt nor those in Libya, nor ..." Hippolytus (170-236) after quoting part of John 1:1 "If, then the Word was with God and was also God what follows? Would one say that he speaks of two Gods? I shall not indeed speak of two Gods but of one; of two Persons however and of a third economy (disposition), viz., the grace of the Holy Ghost. For the Father indeed is One but there are two Persons because there is also the Son; and then there is the third the Holy Spirit. The Father decrees, the Word executes and the Son is manifested, through whom the Father is believed on. The economy of the harmony is led back to one God; for God is One. It is the Father who commands and the Son who obeys and the Holy Spirit who gives understanding; the Father is above all, and the Son who is through all and the Holy Spirit who is in all. And we cannot otherwise think of one God, but by believing in truth in Father and Son and Holy Spirit." Against the Heresy of One Noetus chapter 14. Athanasius (296-373) "United without confusion, distinguished without separation. Indivisible and without degrees." Sermon on Luke 10:22 "For it is only on the cross that a man dies with his hands spread out. Whence it was fitting for the Lord to bear this also and to spread out His hands that with the one He might draw the ancient people, and with the other those from the Gentiles and unite both in Himself." Incarnation 25:3 Basil of Cappadocia (329-379) "when all the while they ought to confess that the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Ghost God, as they have been taught by the divine words,..." Letter 7 to Caesareans (p.116) Hilary (353-368) "The deeds of God therefore are beyond the understanding of our human nature and do not fit in with our rational process of thought because the operation of a limitless eternity demands an infinite comprehension of measuring things. So it is not a conclusion of reason but a limitation of power when God became man, when the Immortal dies, when the Eternal is buried. Again, on the other hand it does not depend on our manner of thinking but on omnipotence that He appears as God from a man, as immortal from one who is dead, and as eternal from one who is buried. Hence we are revivified by God in Christ through his death." Trinity 1:14 "Since unless things are of the same nature they are never accorded equal honor, and equality of honor does not bring about a separation in those who are being honored. But the mystery of the birth demands equality of honor." (on John 5:23) Gregory of Nyssa (335-394) "When we say that the Godhead of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is one, and yet forbid men to say ‘there are three Gods’?" On "Not Three Gods" Ambrose of Milan (340-397) "These words, then, are written with regard to God, of which Name the dignity and truth are common to [both the Father and] the Son." Of the Christian Faith 3:3:17. Summary The church did not have non-Trinitarians. Gnostics, Arians, and other heretics were excluded from the church. The doctrines of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and others are modern inventions. Watchtower Statements on the Trinity Watchtower magazine 2/1/1977 p.95 in Rom 10:12, the identity of "Lord" cannot be established with certainty from the context. In other words JW’s cannot say who their Lord is. (See 1 Cor 12:4-6). "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15

See our playlist "Dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, Watchtower Society" with 22 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLCF0ADB29C0EB8C40. YHWH - What is God's name, YHWH or Jehovah? Almighty God was referred to by a number of names and titles in the Old Testament. Jews traditionally say there were seven names. One of these names was YHWH. The letters YHWH are named in Hebrew Yod-Heh-Waw-Heh. The Jewish Encyclopaedia states: "Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh ( ), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form "Jehovah," which, however, is a philological impossibility." jewishencyclopedia.com (as of 25/09/2005) Prior to the time of Jesus, mainline Judaism came to believe that YHWH, the divine name of God, was too sacred to be uttered, and the ineffable name stopped being uttered aloud. Because written Hebrew contained consonants but no vowels, it is now unknown exactly how YHWH was pronounced by ancient Jews. However, there is consensus by scholars that God's name was rendered as Yahuweh or Yahweh. "There is almost universal consensus among scholars today that the sacred Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is to be vocalized and pronounced Yahweh. Probably the name means literally "He is."" New International Version: The Making of a Contemporary Translation CHAPTER 9: YHWH Sabaoth: "The Lord Almighty" Kenneth L. Barker Jews recognise the divine name in modern times as Yahweh. The Jewish Encyclopedia published between 1901 and 1906 by Funk and Wagnalls includes the divine name as Yahweh when translated into English. Nazarene Judaism is a source of information on the pronunciation of YHWH because they see importance in the use of the name and continued to utter the name after mainstream Judaism had ceased saying the word out loud. The following quote is from an article written by a Nazarene and explains that there is significant evidence that Yahweh is the correct. Nazarenes and the Name of YHWH by James Trimm states; "It is clear when examining the many sources that the pronunciation of YHWH can be recovered as YAHUWEH sometimes abbreviated as YAHWEH, YAHU or YAH. This is attested to by the Yahwitic names of the Masoretic text, the Peshitta Aramaic and the Marashu texts. The true pronunciation of YHWH is also preserved in ancient transliterations of the name written in Egyptian Hieroglyphics, cuneiform and Greek, all of which had written vowels. The restoration of the use of the name of Yahuweh with its correct pronunciation is as prophetically significant as the restoration of the ancient sect of the Nazarenes. Such a restoration of the name of Yahweh to his people is promised in scripture: For then will I turn to the people a pure language, That they may call upon the name of YHWH (Zeph. 3:9)" The first half of the Tetragrammaton is commonly used as an abbreviation for God's name and is included in the a number of Biblical names. The shorten form of YHWH is Yah. The New World Translation Reference Bible states; ""As Jah." BHSftn(Heb.), ki Yah; M(Heb.), beYah´, "by Jah." Yah is the first half of the Tetragrammaton, YHWH. It occurs 49 times in M distinguished by a point (mappik) in its second letter and once, in Ca 8:6, without the mappik. TLXXSyVg, "Jehovah." See Ex 15:2 ftn, "Jah"; App 1A." New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures Footnote to Psalm 68:4 This is attested to by a number of English Biblical references. The word Hallelujah means 'Praise Yah" and shows that YH was pronounced as yah. The names Elijah, Isaiah and Jeremiah all end with Yah. On the other hand, Jehosaphat begins with the incorrect "Jeho" in place of Yah. This carries the same inaccuracy as Jehovah. The inaccuracy is due to Masorite additions from the nineth century C.E. The correct way to transliterate this name is Yahosaphat and is a combination of the word Yah, with the Hebrew 'shaphat', which means 'judge'. The first letter was Y as the letter J did not exist in the Hebrew language. The Encyclopedia Americana contains the following on the J: "The form of J was unknown in any alphabet until the 14th century. Either symbol (J,I) used initially generally had the consonantal sound of Y as in year. Gradually, the two symbols (J,l) were differentiated, the J usually acquiring consonantal force and thus becoming regarded as a consonant, and the I becoming a vowel. It was not until 1630 that the differentiation became general in England." The pronunciation of the name of God has been preserved in a number of other languages that do contain vowels. The Murashu texts were found at Nippur and date back to 464 B.C. These were written in Aramaic cuneiform script on clay tablets. The version of the Old Testament used by Aramaic speaking Assyrians, Syrians and Chaldeans was the Peshitta text. In the fourth century CE vowels were added to the Aramaic text. When they added vowels to names that begin with part of the divine name the result was to start with Yah, such as in Yahosaphat. Egyptian hieroglyphics contain written vowels. In Budge's An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary page fifteen shows that the shortened form of YHWH was transliterated as "IA" or "YA", also supporting that God's name begins with the sound Yah. Assyrian cuneiform script has been found which had the divine name spelt with written vowels. A.H.Sayce published Halley's Bible Handbook in 1898. On page sixty two it discusses three clay cuneiform tablets dating from the time of Hammurabi which contain the phrase Jahweh. Josephus also can be used to support the idea that the sacred name was pronounced Yahweh. In Jewish Wars, chapter V, Josephus wrote; "... in which was engraven the sacred name: it consists of four vowels." Yahweh or Yahuweh contains four 'vowels', being pronounced as ee-ah-oo-eh, whereas Jehovah only contains three. In Jesus time the Greek transliteration of the divine name was Iaoue or Iabe. This supports Yahweh as it was pronounced ee-ah-oo-eh. In the second century Clement of Alexandria wrote: "The mystic name which is called the Tetragrammaton, by which alone they who had access to the Holy of Holies were protected, is pronounced Iaoue, which means 'who is, and who shall be.'" In Latin it was similarly written as Iabe. History of the word Jehovah It is interesting to understand how the word Jehovah was derived, as the history of the word shows why the word is incorrect. In an unfortunate stroke of the pen the Watchtower Society chose to adopt the rendition of YHWH that has least resemblance to the original name and incorporates the very reason the exact pronunciation is unknown. Ancient Hebrew did not contain vowels and so the pronunciation of words was handed down. In order to preserve the pronunciation of the Hebrew language, the Masoretes created a system for introducing vowels into the Hebrew language during the ninth century A.D. However, when it came to YHWH, rather than putting the correct vowel signs, they put vowel signs for Adonai (Lord) or Elohim (God), in order to remind the reader to use the word Lord or God instead of the name of God. Adonai (Lord) was predominantly used, however, in passages where Adonai and YHWH appeared together, Elohim was used instead, to avoid repetition of the word Lord. As proposed by the 19th-century Hebrew scholar Gesenius, it is generally accepted that mixing the vowels for Lord and God with the consonants YHWH that led to the manufacture of the hybrid word Jehovah. Hence, it was the effort to avoid pronouncing God's name that led to the manufacture of the hybrid word Jehovah. "The form Jehovah is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. The word "Jehovah" does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew." Revised Standard Version pp.6-7 "Yahweh-the personal name of the God of the Israelites . . . The Masoretes, Jewish biblical scholars of the Middle Ages, replaced the vowel signs that had appeared above or beneath the consonants of YHWH with the vowel signs of Adonai or of Elohim. Thus, the artificial name Jehovah (YeHoWaH) came into being. Although Christian scholars after the Rendssance and Reformation periods used the term Jehovah for YHWH, in the 19th and 20th centuries biblical scholars again began to use the form Yahweh. Early Christian writers, Such as Clement of Alexandria in the 2nd century, had used the form Yahweh, thus this pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was never really lost. Greek transcriptions also indicated that Yhwh Should be pronounced Yahweh." Encyclopedia Britannica (Micropedia, vol. 10) In the Hebrew Bible the Jews wrote the consonants of the Tetragrammaton as YHWH, but out of reverence for the sacred name of God (or out of fear of violating Exod. 20:7; Lev. 24:16), they vocalized and pronounced it as Adonai or occasionally as Elohim. It is unfortunate, then, that the name was transliterated into German and ultimately into English as Jehovah (which is the way the name is represented in the American Standard Version of 1901), for this conflate form represents the vowels of Adonai superimposed on the consonants of Yahweh, and it was never intended by the Jews to be read as Yehowah (or Jehovah). The Jewish Encyclopaedia explains the word Jehovah in a similar way. jewishencyclopedia.com (25/9/2005) "A mispronunciation (introduced by Christian theologians, but almost entirely disregarded by the Jews) of the Hebrew "Yhwh," the (ineffable) name of God (the Tetragrammaton or "Shem ha-Meforash"). This pronunciation is grammatically impossible; it arose through pronouncing the vowels of the "?ere" (marginal reading of the Masorites: = "Adonay") with the consonants of the "ketib" (text-reading: = "Yhwh")" The first time the Tetragrammaton appeared in an English Bible was on the title page of William Tyndale's Bible translation of 1525, where it was written as Iehouah. This was an interlace of YHVH and Adonai. The King James Version also originally used Iehouah, influenced by the Ben Chayim codex. The King James Bible changed the spelling to Jehovah for the 1762-1769 edition. Combining YHWH with Adonai is referred to as interlacing, fusing or superimposing. It could hardly be considered accurate or respectful. The illogical fusion of the sacred Name with the vowel points of another name is shown in the preface to The J.B. Rotherham Emphasized Bible: "To give the name JHVH the vowels of the word for Lord [Heb. Adonai], is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal - viz., Gormuna. The monstrous combination Jehovah is not older than about 1520 A.D." The Watchtower argues that Jehovah is acceptable as it is a translation. ""Yahweh" is obviously a transliteration, whereas "Jehovah" is a translation, and Bible names generally have been translated rather than transliterated." Awake! 1973 March 22 p.27 As already seen, this is not accurate as Jehovah is also a transliteration, but of two separate words. By combining the consonants from YHWH with the vowels from Adonai or possibly Elohim the word Jehovah incorporates the very reason the original pronunciation was lost. Advocates of the word Jehovah argue that it does not matter whether the word is accurate or not, what is important is that God is distinguished by a personal name. The Divine Name Brochure p.10, by the Watchtower Society states: "Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. While many translators favor the pronunciation Yahweh, the New World Translation and also a number of other translations continue the use of the form Jehovah because of people's familiarity with it for centuries." When translating between languages the pronunciation of names change and so it may not be essential that in English the divine name is pronounced as God originally spoke it to Moses. However, it is ironic that the word Jehovah mixes God's name with the very superstition that caused it to stop being used in the first place. Every time the word Jehovah is pronounced it is a reminder of this very superstition Jehovah's Witnesses claim Hebrew was the first language as given to Adam and Eve and that it will possibly be the language spoken in the New System. (g71 2/22 p.10) The Watchtower Society prides itself on possessing the pure language, on being the only religion to teach truth. "Through the Theocratic organization of his anointed witnesses he has been clearing up the Bible truth more and more and thus purifying their speech. So now they talk and live in harmony with the language of the approaching new world. And here, in this year of 1950, his providence brings forth this New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures as a further purification of the speech of his people. He has graciously provided it as a further powerful means for turning to the peoples a "pure language"." Watchtower 1950 September 15 p.320 One might assume then that the Watchtower would prefer to use the accurate version of God's name, rather than the superstitious rendition. The word Jehovah is not an accurate form of the divine name. It can be argued that it is the common pronunciation in English and it is not important to use the name in its correct version. It is strange though that the version chosen actually incorporates the very reason that the divine name stopped being used in the first place. The History of the name Jehovah's Witnesses Of key importance to Jehovah's Witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 is known as their namesake. Isaiah 43:10 ""YOU are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen ..."" Most Witnesses believe that there have always been a group of witnesses to Jehovah's name, and hence it must have been of great importance to Russell. In actual fact, Russell placed greater emphasis on Jesus than Jehovah, with his most important teaching being "atonement" through Jesus' Ransom Sacrifice. Russell's followers were referred to as Bible Students, and he remained opposed to being known as anything other than a follower of Christ. "It was an evidence that those Corinthians, who took the party names, had never really appreciated the oneness of the Body of Christ; that they did not really appreciate that Christ is the only head, leader and standard; and that his is the only name by which his followers should recognize themselves and each other. Where scoffers apply a name in derision, it is not the fault of the faithful. But the true, loyal soldiers of the cross, should never own or recognize such a name. Instances of names so originating are Methodists and Baptists, both of which were first given in derision, but were afterwards adopted as party names, representing sects, factions, or divisions in the body of Christ. All true teachers are not only sent by Christ but receive their instructions from him; and any man who attempts to put his own or any other name upon all or any portion of the church is an opponent, an adversary to the true and only Lord and Head of the church." Zion's Watch Tower Oct 1888 p.3 It is admitted in Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom that: "Isaiah 43:10, 12 was never discussed in any detail in The Watch Tower during its first 40 years of publication." p.152 Russell expressed that salvation is through Jesus, which is the core message of the New Testament. It certainly was not Jehovah, which is not a name that appears in the New Testament. "The correct Scriptural conviction that the only name by which any can be saved is the name of Jesus: - faith in his sacrifice, and obedience and devotion to him." Zion's Watchtower 1901 Aug 15 p.264 It was in 1926 that the importance of the word Jehovah was introduced by Rutherford, and it was not until 1931 that the term "Jehovah's Witness" was taken. "Especially since the year 1926 they have been making known the name of the heavenly Father of the King Jesus Christ, even going to the extent of embracing the name "Jehovah's witnesses" in the year 1931." God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached p. 288 In response to the radical new direction Rutherford was taking the Watchtower Society, many left the Organization and formed independent Bible Student groups. In an effort to distance his followers from this "evil slave class", Rutherford introduced the distinguishing name Jehovah's Witnesses. This is discussed in the Watchtower 1931 September 15 and October 1. Rutherford used Isaiah 62:2 as his principle reference. Isaiah 62:2 "And you will actually be called by a new name, which the very mouth of Jehovah will designate." This was poor choice of Scripture as just 2 verses later the name given is not Jehovah but Hephzibah. Isaiah 62:4 "but you yourself will be called (Hephzibah RSV) My Delight Is in Her." This erroneous reasoning was not corrected till several years later, and Isaiah 43:10 brought to prominence instead. "Although the evidence points persuasively to Jehovah's direction in selection of the name Jehovah's Witnesses, The Watchtower (February 1, 1944, pp. 42-3; October 1, 1957, p. 607) and the book "New Heavens and a New Earth" (pp. 231-7) later pointed out that this name is not the "new name" referred to at Isaiah 62:2; 65:15; and Revelation 2:17, though the name harmonizes with the new relationship referred to in the two texts in Isaiah." Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom p. 156 Footnote The Watchtower gives precedence to the name Jehovah's Witnesses based on Isaiah 43:10 in favour of the wealth of New Testament guidance to be "witnesses of me" (Acts 1:8) - Christ Jesus. Luke 24:46-48 "In this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, and on the basis of his name repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations-starting out from Jerusalem, YOU are to be witnesses of these things." Acts 10:43 "To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name." Hebrews 12:1-2 "… we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, … as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus." Revelation 17:6 "… the witnesses of Jesus." Further effort to shift attention from Jesus to Jehovah was made in March 1939, when The Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Kingdom was renamed The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom. Related to this topic is that the Watchtower promoted the Worship of Jesus until 1954. Jehovah's Witnesses worshipped Jesus until 1954, after which they were told such worship was idolatrous. This made them a polytheistic religion for most of their history. The core to religion is God, and to change the God you worship is to change the very essence and basis of the religion. Of the countless alterations in Witness doctrine, the one regarding the Worship of Jesus is most important of all. The major issues concerning the history and doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses are prevalent within the Watchtower doctrine of Jesus, clearly highlighting the manner in which the leaders operate. These pandemic symptoms are threefold. Significant teachings change The Watchtower misquotes its sources Current doctrines are not necessarily correct Changed Teaching on Jesus Russell taught that we should worship Jesus and the initial Watchtower Charter's specified that establishment of the Watchtower Society was to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. Yet since the 1950's, worshipping Jesus became regarded as wrongful idolatry. Russell promoted the worship of Jesus and prayer to him because he is our God. "It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3 "It is undoubtedly proper enough for us to address petitions to our Redeemer and Advocate, who loved us and gave himself for us....Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 May 15 p.157 "Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man." Zion's Watch Tower 1898 Jul 15 p.216 "In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles....They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience." Zion's Watch Tower 1906 Jan 1 p.15 Rutherford continued this teaching. "Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah's purpose (Heb.:3-6)." Watchtower 1939 Nov 15 p.339 "During the Millennium, "the princes will lead the people in their worship of Jehovah and of Christ." Vindication Volume 3 (J. F. Rutherford, 1932) p.295 "The people of all nations who obtain salvation must come to the house of the Lord to worship there; that is to say, they must believe on and worship Jehovah God and the Lord Jesus Christ, his chief instrument (Philippians 2:10, 11)." Salvation (J. F. Rutherford, 1939) p.151 Knorr continued to teach we should worship Jesus and the 1940's Watchtower articles still stated that Jesus was to be worshipped. "Now, at Christ's coming to reign as king in Jehovah's capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah's Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy." Watchtower 1945 Oct 15 p.313 In 1945, Knorr amended the Watchtower's legal Charter. Included within the Charter was the statement that the purpose of the Watchtower Society is to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. The 1945 Yearbook includes the Charter in full. Part of the current charter states as follows: "The purposes of this Society are: To act as the servant of and the legal world-wide governing agency for that body of Christian persons known as Jehovah's Witnesses to preach the gospel of God's kingdom under Christ Jesus unto all nations as a witness to the name, word and supremacy of Almighty Good JEHOVAH; to print and distribute Bibles and to disseminate Bible truths in various languages by means of making and publishing literature containing information and comment explaining Bible truths and prophecy concerning establishment of Jehovah's kingdom under Christ Jesus to authorize and appoint agents, servants, employees, teachers, instructors, evangelists, missionaries and ministers to go forth to all the world publicly and from house to house to preach and teach Bible truths to persons willing to listen by leaving with such persons said literature and by conducting Bible studies thereon to improve men, women and children mentally and morally by Christian missionary work and by charitable and benevolent instruction of the people on the Bible and incidental scientific, historical and literary subjects to establish and maintain private Bible schools and classes for gratuitous instruction of men and women in the Bible, Bible literature and Bible history; to teach, train, prepare and equip men and women as ministers, missionaries, evangelists, preachers, teachers and lecturers to provide and maintain homes, places and buildings for gratuitous housing of such students, lecturers, teachers and minister; to furnish gratuitously to such students, lecturers, teachers, educators and ministers suitable meals and lodging and to prepare, support, maintain and send out to various parts of the world Christian missionaries, teachers and instructors in the Bible and Bible literature and for public Christian worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus; to arrange for and hold local and world-wide assemblies for such worship to use or operate radio broadcasting stations for preaching this gospel of the kingdom; and to do any and all other lawful things that its Board of Directors shall deem expedient for the purposes stated." Therefore the Jehovah's Witness 1945 Charter states to worship Christ Jesus. It was not until 1999 that worship of Jesus was finally removed to simply state "arrange for and hold assemblies for religious worship;" Worship of Jesus Becomes Idolatry In the 1950's, the Watchtower changed their doctrine on Jesus to coincide with the release of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Contrary to most other translations, this new Bible version for Jehovah's Witnesses translated the word proskuneō as obeisance rather than worship whenever it referred to Jesus. This is despite the fact that with almost every other occurrence, the New World Translation translates proskuneō as worship. Proskuneō occurs 60 times in the Greek Scriptures. Of the 17 times it applies to Jesus, all 17 occurrences were translated by the New World Translation as obeisance. (In the 2013 revision, 2 of these times have been changed to "bow".) The only other instance where prokuneō is translated as 'obeisance' is when Cornelius bows to Peter. (Worship would be correct here as well. Peter interprets this act as a form of worship, as he rejects it immediately.) Of the remaining 42 times proskuneō appears, it is always translated as worship, regardless of whether it is referring to Jehovah, angels, humans, Satan, demons, the wild beast and its image, or idols. Why this unusual stance in connection with Jesus? This is because the teaching about Jesus was undergoing a dramatic change. The first clear statement that Jesus must not be worshipped was in 1954. From that time forward there was a new belief in the position of Jesus; that he should be neither prayed to or worshipped. "Should we worship Jesus? Consequently, since the Scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is not a trinitarian co-person with God the Father, but is a distinct person, the Son of God, the answer to the above question must be that no distinct worship is to be rendered to Jesus Christ now glorified in heaven. Our worship is to go to Jehovah God. However, we show the proper regard for God's only-begotten Son by rendering our worship to God through and in the name of Jesus Christ. Even now when we kneel in prayer, as Paul did according to Ephesians 3:14-19, we offer prayer in the name of Jesus Christ in obedience to his own directions (John 15:16; 16:23-26), but the prayer itself is addressed, not to Jesus, but to God his Father. In this way we keep things in their relative positions." Watchtower 1954 Jan 1 p.31 "Trinitarians who believe that Jesus is God, or at least the second person of the triune God, do not like to have Jehovah's witnesses say that it is unscriptural for worshipers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" Watchtower 1964 Nov 1 p.671 "Reverent adoration should be expressed only to God. To render worship to anyone or anything else would be a form of idolatry, which is condemned in both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. Accordingly, true Christians do well to direct their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty." Awake! 2000 Apr 8 pp.26,27 "Though some claim that prayer may properly be addressed to others, such as to God's Son, the evidence is emphatically to the contrary." Insight on the Scriptures Volume 2 p.667 Watchtower Misquotes On occasion the Watchtower use misquotes to hide its history or prove doctrines. For example, look at the way in which the charter is quoted since the doctrine was changed. Though a Witness is bluntly told not to worship Jesus, the Charter was not amended to reflect this new doctrine until 1999. Therefore, for 45 years Witnesses were counselled against worshipping Jesus even though to do so was stated as the express reason for the existence of the Watchtower Society. This is despite the fact that it is considered idolatry to worship and pray to Jesus and will result in a Witness being disfellowshipped. It is interesting to see how the Watchtower dealt with having in its charter that Jesus is to be worshipped. They either misquoted it or avoided it completely. The Yearbook of 1969 p.50 leaves the words "and Christ Jesus" out altogether, cheekily replacing them with dots. "for public Christian worship of Almighty God … ; to arrange for" The section of the charter shown above is quoted almost in full in the footnote of the 1971 Watchtower on page 760, altering one small but significant word (which it correctly places in brackets) to significantly hide and change the true meaning of the sentence. "for public Christian worship of Almighty God [through] Christ Jesus; to arrange for..." Watchtower 1971 Dec 15 p.760 The 1993 Proclaimers book, outlining a history of the Watchtower Society, failed to even admit what is in the Charter. Current Questionable Doctrine Up until 1938, the Watchtower title included the words Herald of Christ's Presence. In 1939, the title of the January 1st issue changed to The Watchtower and Herald of Christ’s Kingdom. On March 1st, 1939 the word Christ was removed and replaced with Jehovah. To this day it is now The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom. It is interesting to understand why it was originally taught that Jesus is a God worthy of our worship and prayers. Jesus is a God John 1:1 " and the Word was a god." John 20:28-29 "In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him: "Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe."" Jesus was worshipped The Bible repeatedly says that Jesus was worshipped. The New World Translation is virtually alone in translating the word proskuneo as obeisance. Yet look at the context of the following scripture to understand that the thought given is one of reverential worship. Hebrews 1:6 "But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels do obeisance (proskuneo, worship) to him." Jesus is our creator John 1:2-4 "This one was in [the] beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men." Jesus was prayed to Acts 7:59 "And they went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeal and said: "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Stephen prayed to Jesus whilst being stoned to death. Unlike most translations, the New World Translation uses the word appeal instead of prayer. However, the footnote to New World Translation, 1950 edition, states (footnote b: "invocation; prayer"). The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson and published by the Watchtower Society also refers to "the prayer of Stephen" in its' footnote. Regardless of whether Stephen appealed or prayed to Jesus, it is clear what the writer meant. The reason the New World Translation is averse to using the word prayer is that it is an indication of worship. Can you imagine what would happen today if an elder stood on the platform and prayed to Jesus instead of Jehovah? This leads to a very interesting problem. If Jehovah's Witnesses worshipped Jehovah and worshipped Jesus that means they were worshipping two Gods. Does that not then make them Polytheistic? Yet Deuteronomy 6:4 states 'Jehovah our God is one Jehovah". The first of the ten commandments stated at Exodus 20:2-3 "I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face." By current Watchtower teaching, until 1954 Russell and all Jehovah's Witnesses were idolaters, a sin Revelation 21:8 describes as worthy of the second death. If that is the case, they cannot be part of the 144,000 heavenly rulers. Early Jewish Christians grappled with this concept. Their background was Monotheistic, yet they were to worship Jesus, pray to him and refer to him as God. This left first century Christians with a Father and a Son and the Holy Spirit referred to as their God (Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," Acts 5:3-4, "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.") their creator and to be worshipped; yet they could not accept polytheism. Christianity worshipped only one God therefore the Trinitarian concept was understood to mean within the nature of the one, eternal God were three eternally distinct persons. The very earliest of the Christian writers describe Jesus as immortal (Mathetes), God (Justin Martyr) and co-equal (Tertullian) with the Father. It is with this understanding that a Jehovah's Witness can start to consider that the current Watchtower doctrine of God which has evolved over time does not have strong Scriptural support at all. For more information on the Biblical nature of God see our playlist " Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 48 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB. With significant & continual Watchtower doctrinal change on essential Biblical issues, concerned persons should really question whether the Holy Spirit directs the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses in anything they do or say. Once it is recognized that Watchtower articles have dishonestly hidden information from their readers & have been doing so for a long, long time how can anything they produce be trusted without suspicion. Jehovah's Witnesses, like a herd of cattle being guided unsuspectingly to the slaughterhouse, have failed to question the trustworthiness of Watchtower material & their truth claims leading to a fulfillment of Jesus' statement, "they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15:14) For more information see: www.jwinfoline.com, www.cftf.com & www.BibleQuery.org. Matthew 7:15, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

There are many reasons why Oneness Pentecostalism (background info at www.watchman.org/profiles/pdf/onenesspentecostalismprofile.pdf) is a counterfeit anti Christian cult & fairly recent in origin (see our playlist, "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC)" at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB&feature=plcp with 43 videos). Like most anti Biblical cults Oneness Pentecostalism excels at heresy. Oneness Pentecostalism does & believes the following: Denies the doctrine of the Trinity. Denies justification by faith alone by stating that baptism is also required for salvation. Jesus is God the Father. Jesus is the Holy Spirit. The name of God is "Jesus." Baptism is necessary for salvation. (see "IS WATER BAPTISM NECESSARY TO ESCAPE HELL & BE SAVED & ARE YOU "BORN AGAIN" (JOHN 3:3-8) BY IT?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wYJtMV9qrWg.html). Denies pre-existence of the Word as the Son. Teaches that the He existed as the Father. Being born again means repentance, baptism, and speaking in tongues. Baptism must be administered by an ordained Oneness minister to be valid. Baptism must be administered with the phrase, "In the name of Jesus" instead of the phrase, "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," (Matt. 28:19). Speaking in tongues is a necessary requirement to demonstrate that a person has been baptized in the Holy Spirit and is, therefore, saved. It is claimed to be the initial sign of the infilling of the Holy Ghost. (see "Acts 19: Gifts of the Holy Spirit - Baptism in the Holy Spirit & Speaking in Tongues" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-y2uXPzB0UmE.html). Restitution of all things though the devil and the angels will not be restored. Women may be pastors. (see "Unpopular Bible Doctrines #7: God Condemns Astrology, Witchcraft, & Sin; No Women Pastors Allowed" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ql_obI6wA9w.html). Only Oneness people will go to heaven. See "Out of Oneness Pentecostalism - David Vivas Jr.'s Story" at carm.org/christianity/testimonies/out-oneness-pentecostalism-david-vivas-jrs-story. See also our website www.BibleQuery.org & see the articles "Seven Simple Facts About the Trinity," "Indwelling of the Trinity" & see our posted newsletters there by clicking on "The Trinity" & "Oneness Pentecostals." Titus 1:9-16

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons, teaches that God the father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. The preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. Furthermore, faithful Mormons, who pay a full 10% tithe of their income to the Mormon church through Mormon temples, have the potential of becoming gods of their own planets and are then able to start the procedure over again. The Bible does not teach that God came from another planet, or that he has a goddess wife, or that we can become gods. In fact, the Bible clearly and definitely contradicts those teachings. But, the Mormon Church responds by saying that the Bible is not really trustworthy, that the true faith was lost, and that its leader, Joseph Smith, restored the so-called "true" Christian faith: god from another world, becoming gods, goddess mother, etc. Of course, the Mormon Church's claim is not true. These teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers: 1.Book of Mormon The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461.) 2.Devil, the A.The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192.) B.Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) 3.God A.God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). B."The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans..." (D&C 130:22). 4.God, becoming a god A.After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354). B."Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20). 5.God, many gods A.There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). B."And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3). 6.God, mother goddess A.There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443). B.God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516). 7.God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35). 8. Holy Ghost, the The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179). 9. Joseph Smith, Jr. If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670). 10. Heaven There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348). Matthew 7:15

I was discoursing with another Muslim gentleman the other day who told me that Muslims do believe in the bible as well as the Quran. Can you explain?

Man i wish Mcneil would have ripped him apart when Steve said that Jesus didn't speak in a language that was hard to understand. Jesus spoke parables that even the Pharisees couldn't understand!

There are lots of cults. You could be a Herbert W. Armstrong cultist while the other guy is a Mormon. Herbie said, "The Hebrew for God is Elohim, a uniplural noun, such as the words family, church, group ... And so, in truth, God is not merely one personage or even limited to a 'Trinity,' but is a family" (The Good News, February, 1979, p.1). "The doctrine of the Trinity is false ..." Herbie said only the Father & Jesus were God now & billions would come later. False - Isaiah 43:10, Psalm 90:2.

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. John 5:37 ...You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

Oneness Pentecostals are the victims of what the apostle Paul calls "another Jesus & another spirit" (2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."). The Oneness Pentecostal god is a false god that comes with a false gospel (Galatians 1:6-9, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."). The healings they claim come from the same spirit as the Christian Scientists (see our video on that subject at NEW AGE HEALING CULT OF MARY BAKER EDDY: "CHRISTIAN SCIENCE" - NEITHER CHRISTIAN NOR SCIENTIFIC), the world of the Occult (see our playlist "Dealing with UFOs, Ghosts, Magic, Spiritual Warfare, Satan" with 19 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL2CF1129D311BF9A6) & all the phony "signs of wonders" of the blasphemous Pentecostal & Charismatic movement (see our playlist on "Phony TV Preachers" at ru-vid.com/group/PL2CDA855486B09128). Don't forget 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12, "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." What is Oneness Pentecostal theology? Oneness Pentecostal theology affirms that there exists only one God in all the universe. It affirms the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. However, Oneness theology denies the Trinity. The Trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who manifests Himself as three distinct, simultaneous persons. The Trinity does not assert that there are three gods but only one. This is important because many groups who oppose orthodoxy will accuse Trinitarians of believing in three gods. But this is not so. The doctrine of the Trinity is that there is one God in three persons. Oneness theology denies the Trinity and teaches that God is a single person who was "manifested as Father in creation and as the Father of the Son, in the Son for our redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in our regeneration." Another way of looking at it is that God revealed himself as Father in the Old Testament, as the Son in Jesus during Christ’s ministry on earth, and now as the Holy Spirit after Christ’s ascension. In addition, oneness theology also maintains that baptism is a necessary part of salvation (this is "another gospel" as mentioned in Galatians 1:6-9); that is, in order to be saved, one must be baptized and by immersion. If you are not baptized, you cannot be saved. However, not only must baptism be by immersion but also it must be administered with the formula "In Jesus’ name" and not by the Biblical command to baptize "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" which is mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 28:19 (for a complete refutation of the Oneness Pentecostal god see our playlist "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 50 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB). Finally, this baptism must be administered, as they say, by a duly ordained minister of a church that maintains oneness theology: United Pentecostal, United Apostolic, etc. or else the person's baptism is no good & thus they cannot be saved from the wrath of God (see "IS WATER BAPTISM NECESSARY TO ESCAPE HELL & BE SAVED & ARE YOU "BORN AGAIN" (JOHN 3:3-8) BY IT?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wYJtMV9qrWg.html). Oneness churches also teach that speaking in tongues is a necessary manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Since a person cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:9), it follows that only those who have spoken in tongues are really saved. There is, therefore, an emphasis that Oneness church members speak in tongues to "demonstrate" that they are saved and have the truth. The "tongues" that the Oneness Pentecostals is not supernatural however & is rather man-made, fraudulent & unbiblical (for more on this see "Charismatic Counterfeits: Do the Modern Gifts Meet the Biblical Standard? by Nathan Busenitz" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9_IdNv1Ju5U.html). The Oneness Pentecostals here too deny the gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) because true Christians do not have to speak in tongues in order to be saved. Unfortunately, there are groups, usually the Oneness Churches who teach that you must speak in tongues in order to be saved. Additionally, they maintain that speaking in tongues is a necessary sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit because in the Book of Acts after the Holy Spirit moves on people they speak in tongues (to see how Pentecostals & Charismatics pervert these verses in Acts see our video "Acts 19: Gifts of the Holy Spirit - Baptism in the Holy Spirit & Speaking in Tongues" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-y2uXPzB0UmE.html). The problem with this false "speaking in tongues" position is that it fails to incorporate the Biblical teachings that the Holy Spirit gives different gifts to different people in the Church. 1 Cor. 12:7-11, 28-31, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills . . . 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts. As you can see, not all have gifts of healings or tongues. Clearly, the Bible teaches that all do not speak in tongues not because they can't but because they are not gifted to do so. Therefore, the idea that someone must speak in tongues to be saved is a damnable false gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). Next, Oneness groups are strongly man centered rather than God centered in their heretical Arminian or Pelagian doctrine of salvation (see our video "DEBATE: ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED (CALVINISM) OR DOING ENOUGH WORKS TO KEEP SALVATION (PELAGIANISM)?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-H7e1aWfrQHg.html). They deny predestination despite what Ephesians 1:4-5 says "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" and maintain that it is completely up to the individual to decide whether or not he wants to be saved (works salvation at its worst, Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (see also our playlist "Dealing with Predestination, Arminianism & Calvinism" with 81 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLA932903698A56780). They also teach that it is possible to lose one's salvation which is refuted by Ephesians 4:30, "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (for more on this see our video "True Christians Cannot Lose Their Salvation But Fake & Deluded "Christians" Never Had It At All" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-meUD2vCv3oo.html). There is within the Oneness movement an attempt to represent themselves in a modest and holy manner but this is what most false prophets do such as the Jehovah's Witnesses & Mormons. Since this Oneness Pentecostal religion is built on the false gospel of works salvation & legalism it even requires their women to abstain from wearing makeup and pants. They also must have their heads covered. Likewise, men should be well-dressed--preferably in ties. Such practices are not wrong in themselves and are good examples of propriety, however, when they become requirements for acceptance in a church, it is legalistic. (these legalistic Oneness Pentecostals are similar to Seventh-day Adventists, see our playlist "Dealing with Seventh-day Adventism & Their "Prophetess" with 25 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL5316CC6F66F24283). Legalism leads to bondage and the requirements of keeping the law to maintain salvation which is strongly condemned in the Book of Galatians. It then becomes a means by which a person's spirituality is judged. Oneness churches strongly imply that if you go to movies or have a TV or wear makeup, etc., then you are not "really" a Christian. Oneness Theology necessarily leads to legalism (the heresy of the Galatians) since it is based on serious doctrinal error regarding the very nature of God. If they can't understand Who the God of the Bible is then how can they be expected to get anything else right (1 Corinthians 2:14, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."). Oneness Pentecostal theology maintains that baptism must be by immersion using the formula "in Jesus name" and not the formula "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as is found in Matt. 28:19. They reject the Trinitarian formula because they reject the Trinity. To support their method they cite various Bible verses that reference baptizing in Jesus' name and claim that this is proof for their doctrine. Following are some of the Bible references they quote. Acts 2:38," Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 8:16, "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 10:48, "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." Acts 19:5, "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 22:16, 'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’ Let's take a look at what is going on in the verses. The phrase, "in the name of the Lord," is not a reference to a baptismal formula but a reference to authority. It is similar to hearing someone say, "Stop in the name of the Law!" We understand that the "name of the Law" means by the authority of the Law. It is the same with baptism "in Jesus' name." To baptize in Jesus' name is to baptize in the authority of Jesus. Consider the following: "And when they had placed them in the center, they began to inquire, "By what power, or in what name, have you done this?" 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people, 9 if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, 10 let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by this name this man stands here before you in good health," (Acts 4:7-10). Acts 4:17-18, "But in order that it may not spread any further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to any man in this name. 18And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus." Acts 5:28, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us." Acts 5:40, "And they took his advice; and after calling the apostles in, they flogged them and ordered them to speak no more in the name of Jesus, and then released them." Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike." Acts 9:27-28, "But Barnabas took hold of him and brought him to the apostles and described to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had talked to him, and how at Damascus he had spoken out boldly in the name of Jesus. 28And he was with them moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking out boldly in the name of the Lord." Acts 16:18, "And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour." We can see that the phrase is used in the Bible as an expression of authority. This is particularly clarified in Acts 16:18 above. Let's look at it again. "And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour." We also see that when people were being baptized, they did it calling on Jesus' name (Acts 22:16); that is, they were calling upon Jesus who has all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18). The church is supposed to "call upon the name of the Lord Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:2) because it is by His authority (John 1:12) that we Christians have the hope and right of forgiveness of sins and adoption as His children (Rom. 8:15). Therefore, the Oneness Pentecostal people are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done with the formula "In Jesus name." Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," (Matt. 28:19). The proper way to baptize in Jesus' name is to say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Unless Oneness Pentecostals repent of the false gospel they are believing & turn to the real Jesus Christ of the scripture & the real Biblical gospel they will experience the consequences of their error which will be the Lake of Fire (see our playlist "Dealing with Hell, Lake of Fire, Unpopular Bible Doctrines" with 31 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLE04A1D0DFE95B95E). For more information concerning the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity & the true nature of God see our website www.BibleQuery.org (particularly notice our newsletter section which has a newsletter on the Trinity & a newsletter on the Oneness Pentecostals). Titus 1:9-16

i was hoping this would be simple..... i should of prayed

I would very much like to find a transcript or at least a list of the biblical references please. I as with many brought up Christian thought these experiences happened in bible stories ie in the past. Seems God wanted me to Know they can also happen nowadays. I can only conclude It is by Grace not belief that we are shown the Reality of Trinity.

The Shema had 3 names for God in Hebrew with 3 parts while the Rabbi pray with 3 fingers making the Hebrew character Shin. The Shema does not disprove the Trinity.

This is NOT what Trinitarians believe, Jesus is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.

Steve's "proof text " for his position. Isiah 9:6 seemed to me that it was not the whole counsel of God. When he was making his case, I thought of Gen.1:1 the first use of God ( in Hebrew Elohiym which is plural used in single tense. The first God in single context is Gen14:18 ) then there is Gen 1:26. "let us" .Then new testament. Jesus baptism which the voice ,dove and Jesus. John 17 who was Jesus praying to? these are but a few references that refute"oneness" position

1 Peter 5:8, " Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:). See our playlist called "Dealing with Mormonism, The Con Man Religion of Joseph Smith, Jr." with 23 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL11CD0EE613306BB5. Research the websites concernedchristians.com/ , www.MormonInfo.org, www.utlm.org, & for a host of other anti-Mormon websites see www.utlm.org/navotherwebsites.htm Jude 22-23, "And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh."

See our latest video on the Jehovah's Witnesses called "Who's Knocking? #2: Jehovah's Witnesses Hidden History, Spiritism, Racism, Doctrines of Demons" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-b9LFhzOb-_g.html. Although this video is from a lecture I gave to one of my Christian apologetics classes back in the 1990s on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses my video man & myself spent weeks in editing this particular video (we usually edit once a week for 4 to 5 hours). I decided to put the time & effort into placing primary Jehovah's Witness source material into this video which then made it into a very tedious project. Since I own many Jehovah's Witness books that are over 100 years old & are little known I thought it would be useful for viewers to see with their own eyes this material. With knowledge of these original Watchtower publications true Christians can then use this information as an effective tool in witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses who have been deceived by this false prophet organization (I even included some of the court documents from Watchtower founder Charles Taze Russell's divorce case with his wife Maria over his affair with an underage female). Over the past 33 years I have been able, by God's grace, to lead many people & families out of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. This has been done not so much by arguing Bible verses with them (playing "Bible ping pong") but by knowing their history (which they cannot change). Once you can crack their faith in the Watchtower with their own history then they are much more open to discussing what the Bible actually says rather than what the Watchtower tells them the Bible says. Be prepared to meet the Jehovah's Witnesses who come knocking at your door. See also our playlist "Dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, Watchtower Society" with 22 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLCF0ADB29C0EB8C40. 1 Peter 3:15, "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" See our playlist "Dealing with UFOs, Ghosts, Magic, Spiritual Warfare, Satan" with 18 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL2CF1129D311BF9A6. The background of the Jehovah's Witnesses' Watchtower Society is built on the occult (relating to magical powers, esoteric activities, mysticism, etc.). Hear "Occult History of Jehovah's Witnesses" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1120515352 by former Jehovah's Witness Lorri MacGregor (she was a guest on our radio show at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cGNnOs3UP1I.html). Hear her other lectures: "Ex-Jehovah's Witness speaks out" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12250542425, "What Mormons Wont tell you at the door" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12100515958 & "Counterfeit Christians" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=120516534. 2 Timothy 4:2-5, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."

If Jesus is the Father in the flesh then He talks to himself when He prays. Doesn't that make the Father flesh (Jesus) have a mind of it's own? Doesn't that make two separate minds? So without even thinking oneness is dividing the Father in two beings, one flesh and one spirit. My Oneness grandson said that Jesus is like a character the Father is playing. Well the characters actors play are fake they never take the place of the actor . Too complicated.

@ChristusVlCTOR First, you commit the logical fallacy of COMPLEX QUESTION when you ask for a verse that says what you say. The Bible doesn't have to have a verse that directly quotes you to prove a DISTINCTION between the Father & the Son, get it? You're not the Bible & you're deluded thinking you're "100% biblical." Next, for starters, try John 5:30-47 & cross reference this to Matt 18:16. How many "witnesses" (1 or 2?) does Jesus have in John 5, Himself only or does He have a second witness?

For more on the question "Can true Christians lose their salvation?" please go to the following links: "True Christians Cannot Lose Their Salvation But Fake & Deluded "Christians" Never Had It At All" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-meUD2vCv3oo.html, "Losing Salvation Sermons on Sermon Audio" at www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?currsection=sermonstopic&keyword=losing+salvation, "Can the Christian believer lose his salvation?" at carm.org/can-believer-lose-his-salvation, "ETERNAL SECURITY: Based in the Tri-Unity of God" at vintage.aomin.org/eternalsecurity.html, "DEBATE: 2 Cor. 13:14, Each Person (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) of the Trinity Actively Saves Sinners?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Fmf-BtnJJ3U.html & "The Sovereignty of God Versus Man-Made Religions, Hollywood Movies & Petty Emotionalism" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1UQABR_9gGI.html. We may live in a culture that believes everyone will be saved, that we are “justified by death” and all you need to do to go to heaven is die, but God’s Word certainly doesn’t give us the luxury of believing that. Any quick and honest reading of the New Testament shows that the Apostles were convinced that nobody can go to heaven unless they believe in Christ alone for their salvation (John 14:6; Rom. 10:9-10). Historically, evangelical Christians have largely agreed on this point. Where they have differed has been on the matter of the security of salvation. People who would otherwise agree that only those who trust in Jesus will be saved have disagreed on whether anyone who truly believes in Christ can lose his salvation. Theologically speaking, what we are talking about here is the concept of apostasy. This term comes from a Greek word that means “to stand away from.” When we talk about those who have become apostate or have committed apostasy, we’re talking about those who have fallen from the faith or at least from the profession of faith in Christ that they once made. Many believers have held that yes, true Christians can lose their salvation because there are several New Testament texts that seem to indicate that this can happen. I’m thinking, for example, of Paul’s words in 1 Timothy 1:18-20: This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. Here, in the midst of instructions and admonitions related to Timothy’s life and ministry, Paul warns Timothy to keep the faith and to keep a good conscience, and to be reminded of those who didn’t. The Apostle refers to those who made “shipwreck of their faith,” men whom he “handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.” This second point is a reference to Paul’s excommunication of these men, and the whole passage combines a sober warning with concrete examples of those who fell away grievously from their Christian profession. There is no question that professing believers can fall and fall radically. We think of men like Peter, for example, who denied Christ. But the fact that he was restored shows that not every professing believer who falls has fallen past the point of no return. At this point, we should distinguish a serious and radical fall from a total and final fall. Reformed theologians have noted that the Bible is full of examples of true believers who fall into gross sin and even protracted periods of impenitence. So, Christians do fall and they fall radically. What could be more serious than Peter’s public denial of Jesus Christ? But the question is, are these people who are guilty of a real fall irretrievably fallen and eternally lost, or is this fall a temporary condition that will, in the final analysis, be remedied by their restoration? In the case of a person such as Peter, we see that his fall was remedied by his repentance. However, what about those who fall away finally? Were they ever truly believers in the first place? Our answer to this question has to be no. First John 2:19 speaks of the false teachers who went out from the church as never having truly been part of the church. John describes the apostasy of people who had made a profession of faith but who never really were converted. Moreover, we know that God glorifies all whom He justifies (Rom. 8:29-30). If a person has true saving faith and is justified, God will preserve that person. In the meantime, however, if the person who has fallen is still alive, how do we know if he is a full apostate? One thing none of us can do is read the heart of other people. When I see a person who has made a profession of faith and later repudiates it, I don’t know whether he is a truly regenerate person who’s in the midst of a serious, radical fall but who will at some point in the future certainly be restored; or whether he is a person who was never really converted, whose profession of faith was false from the start. This question of whether a person can lose his salvation is not an abstract question. It touches us at the very core of our Christian lives, not only with regard to our concerns for our own perseverance, but also with regard to our concern for our family and friends, particularly those who seemed, for all outward appearances, to have made a genuine profession of faith. We thought their profession was credible, we embraced them as brothers or sisters, only to find out that they repudiated that faith. What do you do, practically, in a situation like that? First, you pray, and then, you wait. We don’t know the final outcome of the situation, and I’m sure there are going to be surprises when we get to heaven. We’re going to be surprised to see people there who we didn’t think would be, and we’re going to be surprised that we don’t see people there who we were sure would be there, because we simply don’t know the internal status of a human heart or of a human soul. Only God can see that soul, change that soul, and preserve that soul. Does Revelation 22:18-19 prove you can lose your salvation? As we approach this subject, it is important to read the Scripture rather than our present ideas and theology into the Word. What does the text say? It says:Rev. 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:Rev. 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.Rev. 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Notice that the text does not indicate that the person’s name is erased from the Book of life. It simply says, God will take the person’s part out of the book of life. We must be careful here not to misinterpret the text. In the study of Scripture, an important rule for biblical interpretation exists in hermeneutics. It implies that we should always interpret the obscure passages in light of the more clear passages of Holy Scripture. A good student of the Word of God understands that the Bible does not contradict itself, therefore, the unclear passages (very few exist) must be interpreted in light of the more clear passages.In this text, we have a controversial subject. Is it possible to lose your salvation? Some denominations insist that it is possible to fall from grace. However, their arguments are usually built upon small unclear passages rather than the entire testimony of the Bible. Here we have a warning about adding and subtracting from the Word of God. Some have argued that this one passage indicates that a person can have their name in the Lamb’s book of life and then erased out when they seek to harm the inspired text. In order to cover this subject, it is important that we view this possibility in light of Holy Scripture. Ephesians 1:4-5 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, If God did what Ephesians 1:4-5 claims - why would He later erase their name from the book of life and take away their inheritance from the Holy City? Does it make sense at all? Ephesians 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Notice what this text says. It says we have obtained. The point Paul is making is very clear. Those to whom God has elected before the foundation of the world, have already obtained an inheritance in Christ Jesus. The inheritance will not be possessed until later - but the point is clear - what Christ accomplished on the cross for those to whom the Father elected - it is waiting on them in eternity!The verb used here - we have obtained an inheritance - is in the aorist passive indicative form. The Greeks would often use this form to indicate something of the future that would occur with the certainty that it had already occurred. That is a wonderful way for God to inspire this text! What does that indicate about our salvation? What does that indicate about our inheritance? What does that indicate about our security? Does this inheritance of verse eleven speak of eternal inheritance? How do we know? We can be sure due to the context of the text. Context is always key! If we read further in the passage we see verses 12-14 unpack the details about our inheritance. It is described as sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise. How much more secure could our salvation become? Conclusion - As we go back to the passage in Revelation we must understand that the warning here does not include the true Christian. How could a person who has been elected by God before time, sealed by the Spirit of God, purchased by the Son of God ever fall from grace or lose his or her salvation? A Christian will never seek to harm the Holy Scripture by addition or subtraction. The people that have been guilty of this throughout history and even in our present day are heretics who have professed the name of Christ but they have denied Him with their actions, speech, and sinful practices. Therefore, the people who add to and subtract from the prophecy prove themselves to be heretics or apostates - they have not persevered until the end - thereby proving they are not genuine Christians.God has always preserved His Word. This warning serves as a testimony of God’s preservation of His Word rather than a passage about losing one’s salvation. The implications are clear - those who would do such a thing are not the children of God - they are enemies that will never take part in the marvelous blessings revealed and recorded in Holy Writ. The Biblical doctrine of the eternal security for the Christian believer is not an endorsement of the heresy of antinomianism, see our videos "Apostate Grace Evangelical Society (GES) Teaches Phony Grace & the Easy Believism of Another Gospel" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wMMvdPtyYvM.html & "Christ Has Fulfilled & Replaced the Law of Moses With Higher Laws of the New Covenant,Hebrews 8:6-13" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EkZ2Cn8TLzE.html. 2 Timothy 2:15

@moogandfender You're obviously very confused! Perhaps you're unaware of "oneness" advocates (see our newsletter on this at our website BIBLEQUERY ORG, once on our homepage click the "Experience" box & scroll down). "Oneness" advocates believe Jesus is the Only God playing all 3 modes by Himself but Trinitarians deny this (Steve McCalip would take great offence at you). See the second hour of this debate for a better perspective. McCalip hates the Trinity just like Jehovah's Witnesses & Muslims.

Hear "Why You Can Believe The Bible" by Voddie Baucham at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=91314616480 & Dr. James White concerning "Can I Trust My Bible?" at www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?seriesOnly=true&currSection=sermonstopic&sourceid=immanuelbc&keyword=Can+I+Trust+My+Bible%3F&keyworddesc=Can+I+Trust+My+Bible%3F which includes "Textual Criticism: Reliability, Answering Critics, Bible Versions & Sufficiency of Scripture." How Do We Know the Bible is True? Is it Really the Word of God? Many critics of Christianity attack the Bible’s truthfulness. Many don’t believe it because they say it was written by man. Is the Bible really God speaking to man? Is the Bible of human origin or a direct revelation from God? The Bible The word Bible is from the root word “biblios” which is Greek for “little books.“ The Bible contains 66 books and was written by 40 authors. The books you see in most Bibles have been tried and tested and were generally accepted by the early church. For centuries the Bible was not available to the general public due to their being only hand-copied ones available. The Bible has been banned from many nations, it has been burned by others, it has been declared out of date by moderns, but it has brought salvation to untold millions. It is the unbridled truth and the unchangeable Word of God that changes those who read it. When people read it, it reads them too! It comforts the afflicted and afflicts the comfortable. What follows is conclusive evidence that we can believe that the Bible is God speaking to us and not just the words of men. Thus Says the Lord or Thus Says Man? If the Bible were indeed a work of man, then we would expect some of the words to say, “thus says the prophet Jeremiah” or “thus says Peter an Apostle of God” but it doesn’t. From what I could count, “Thus says the Lord” is recorded 418 times. If it were of human origin, then we would read somewhere that the Bible or the message came from a certain author but we never see that anywhere. On the contrary, we read over 1,000 times where “Jesus said” and “Thus says the Lord” were written down. In fact, even the Book of Revelation is not called John’s Book of Revelation at all. In Revelation 1:1-2 we see where the words of this book came from: “The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John.” So John was just the recipient of the book as he just wrote down what he was told. Paul said, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Tim 3:16). Paul clearly said that all Scripture is God-breathed…not just the New Testament or the Old Testament, but all Scripture. Peter reiterates it by writing, “For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Pet 1:21). Peter would tell you that “you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation” (2 Pet 1:20). God gives a very serious warning to anyone who takes away or adds to any of the words in the Bible, indicating that only He gives the words of this book and no human had better tamper with it. In Revelation 22:19 God warns that if anyone adds to or takes away any of the words of the Bible, He “…shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city (heaven or the new Jerusalem)”. This same warning is given in the Old Testament in Deuteronomy 4:2. Alleged Errors in Transcribing When the Word of God was reproduced to make another copy, well before the printing press was invented, there were 70 scribes that worked on it with expert precision second to none. Imagine that each of the scribes had the other sixty-nine scribes check their writings for error. Each of these seventy scribes reviewed each other’s work and every written copy, letter by letter, line by line, book by book were examined meticulously. If any errors were found, the started all over again on that particular book or page. Imagine you’re one of the scribes and you have just finished a section. Now the other sixty-nine scribes check your work and compare it to the original. The amazing fact is that their methods resulted in such an accurate reproduction of scripture that only one error for every fifteen hundred words occurred and these errors were so slight that they never affected the content. This copying left absolutely no room for any private interpretation or mistranslation at all. By modern standards, the accuracy rate is superior to that of Microsoft’s Spelling and Grammar Check, which by the way is not perfect. When you consider the stringent guidelines and conditions, no one can dispute that the translation differences had any negative effect on the message of the Bible or its general context. Manuscript Evidence New Testament manuscripts have been preserved by the thousands and the fact is that no other ancient works in human history have such enormous documented and recorded histories as does the Bible. There are about 6,000 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and over 9,000 manuscripts in various other ancient languages. The dates of these manuscripts range from the 2nd century up to the invention of the printing press in the 15th century. Nearly ever year there are more New Testament manuscripts discovered that were handwritten in the original Greek format which continues to add to the enormous collection already on hand. In 2008, 47 new Greek manuscripts were discovered in Albania. Of these, 17 of them were unknown to Western scholars. The fact is that the amount of manuscript evidence is astounding. There are over 25,000 New Testament manuscripts of which 5,000 of these date from the first century. What that translates into for Historians is what is called a primary source. A primary source is a source that comes from eye witnesses. The nearly 6,000 Dead Sea Scrolls are so close in agreement, contextually, that there is only 0.01% in differences and the main differences are only in the differentiation of vowels. In no way do these miniscule differences affect the text or the context. One of the greatest supportive facts is that the evidence verifies the dating of Matthew’s Gospel as far back as A.D. 60. Scholars argue that Mark wrote the first Gospel. This places the composition of Mark to within 20 years of the events that took place and were recorded in his Gospel. With the evidence that the synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) and Luke’s second volume, Acts, were written so close to the time of the crucifixion, the record of the events of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection makes these facts indisputable. Luke and Acts was originally one book but was later separated into two books for the reader’s convenience but the content never changed. The fact that they were written within the lifetimes of those who were eyewitnesses is evidence strong enough to hold up in a court of law. Since the Old and New Testament manuscripts have been preserved by the thousands and there are no other ancient works in human history to compare to it, what we have today in the Bible is as a reliable source as any current historical account or newspaper printed today. The Bible is the Word of God, as men were moved by the Holy Spirit to write it. It is God speaking to us and it is without error and full of truth. If God has revealed Himself in propositional form, that revelation would have certain properties due to His infinite knowledge and moral perfection: It would be entirely true - His infinite knowledge would prevent errors and His truthfulness would keep Him from deception. It would be a coherent unity, therefore not self- contradictory. It would contain God's will for man, and provide the motivation to live according to that will (1). God has revealed Himself in the Bible without error. The Bible itself claims this inerrancy (2 Timothy 3:16-17 (2); Matthew 5:18 (3); etc.). Let's look at some of the proofs for the Bible's claim to be the infallible word of God. Archaeological evidence The first proof we have testifying to the reliability of the Bible is the archaeological evidence. Nelson Glueck, a respected Jewish archaeologist claims: "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contradicted a biblical reference." (4) The liberals made wild claims against the Bible a hundred years ago but now they are silent. This is not true of other religions. The Mormon claim for inspiration of the Book of Mormon has been categorically condemned by the Smithsonian Institute because of the fallacies shown by archaeology; this is not so with the Bible. A.N. Sherwin-White, a respected classical historian at Oxford says, "For Acts the confirmation of historicity is overwhelming...", although, not being a Christian, he still regarded it as being "propaganda."(5) Historicity of Jesus A case in point is the historicity of Jesus. Although many atheists state that Jesus never lived, He is mentioned by many contemporary, non-Christian historians. Let us look at the evidence. Flavius Josephus, a first century Jewish historian wrote of Jesus and the Christians: "so he [Ananus, son of Ananus the high priest] assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before him the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others (or some of his companions) and when he had formed an accusation against them, he delivered them to be stoned." (6) Other Jewish rabbinical writings, including Rabbi Eliezer and writers of the Talmud, talk about Jesus and his miracles. Surprisingly to many atheists, they never denied that miracles took place, but attempted to explain them as a result of evil (7). More information about Jesus in the Talmud can be found at Jesus Christ In The Talmud. Cornelius Tacitus wrote about Jesus and the first century Christians in his Annals (a history of the Roman empire): "Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus." (8) Thallus, a Samaritan historian, wrote ca. 52 A.D. attempting to give a natural explanation for the earthquake and darkness which occurred at the crucifixion of Jesus. Mara Bar-Seraphon wrote a letter to his son in 73 A.D. which tells of the deaths of Socrates, Pythagoras, and of Jesus, "What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king?...Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given." Jesus is also mentioned by Phlegon, a first-century historian, Lucian of Samosata (in The Passing Peregrinus), and Plinius Secundus, (Pliny the Younger). Scholars have made statements such as, "no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus ." (9) The latest version of Encyclopedia Britannica says in its discussion of the multiple extra-biblical witnesses: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries." (10) Even the atheist H. G. Wells spoke of Jesus, "...one is obliged to say, "Here was a man. This part of the tale could not have been invented." (11) Scientific evidence Recent scientific evidence is adding to the evidence supporting the reliability of biblical chronology from the scriptures. This study demonstrated the reliability of the Biblical record regarding the Egyptian plagues and demise of Jericho. Drs. Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht reported in the prestigious British journal, Nature (12), that the destruction of Jericho was dated to 1580 (+/- 13 years) B.C. (using 14C dating). This date is significant, since several archeologists have insisted that Jericho was destroyed by the Egyptians between 1550 and 1300 B.C. The recent study discredits the Egyptian theory, since the date is much too old. What is even more exciting is that scientists, using 14C dating and tree rings, have found evidence of a volcanic eruption from the Aegean island of Thera, which recently has been dated to 1628 B.C. (13). This would place the eruption at 45 years prior to the destruction of Jericho, at a time which coincidentally corresponds to the time of the plagues the Lord unleashed upon Egypt. Check out Exodus 10: Then the Lord said to Moses, "Stretch out your hand toward the sky, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even a darkness which may be felt." So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt for three days. (Exodus 10:21-22) Even the researchers commented that the 45 years difference in events was "rather striking." The Bible's Uniqueness and Unity The next proof is the Bible's uniqueness and unity. The Bible was written by over 40 authors who came from just about every walk of life conceivable, including fisherman, kings, a butler, priests, and a tax collector. The 66 books of the Bible were written over a 1,500 year span in three languages on three continents with one theme and no contradictions. C.J. Sharp captures this miracle well: "If a fragment of stone were found in Italy, another in Asia Minor, another in Greece, another in Egypt, and on and on until sixty-six fragments had been found, and if when put together they fitted perfectly together, making a perfect statue of Venus de Milo, there is not an artist or scientist but would arrive immediately at the conclusion that there was originally a sculptor who conceived and carved the statue. The very lines and perfections would probably determine which of the great ancient artists carved the statue. Not only the unity of the Scriptures, but their lines of perfection, suggest One far above any human as the real author. That could be no one but God (14)." Prophetic evidence Yet another reason Christians believe God is the ultimate author of the Bible is the predictive prophecies in the Bible. This aspect is unique to the world's religions because if one predicts something will happen and it does not, they are proven to be phony. The Bible is literally filled with detailed prophecies that have been fulfilled with 100% accuracy. Here is a list of 85 Messianic prophecies along with their fulfillment through the life, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus: Prophecies of Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah #Prophetic ScriptureSubjectFulfilled 1 Genesis 3:15 seed of a woman Galatians 4:4 2 Genesis 12:3, Genesis 22:18 descendant of Abraham Matthew 1:1, Acts 3:25 3 Genesis 17:19, Genesis 21:12 descendant of Isaac Luke 3:34, Luke 3:23-24 4 Genesis 28:14, Numbers 24:17 descendant of Jacob Matthew 1:2, Luke 3:23-24 5 Genesis 49:10 from the tribe of Judah Luke 3:23-24, Luke 3:33 6 Isaiah 9:6, 11:1-5, Jeremiah 23:5-6 descendant of David Matthew 1:1, Luke 3:23-24 7 Isaiah 11:1 descendant of Jesse Luke 3:23-24 8 Ezekiel 37:24 will shepherd His people Matthew 2:6 9 Isaiah 9:7 heir to the throne of David Luke 1:32-33 10 Micah 5:2 His pre-existence Colossians 1:17 11 Isaiah 9:6, Micah 5:1 eternal existence John 8:58, 11, 14, Ephesians 1:3-14, Colossians 1:15-19 12 Psalm 45:6-7, Psalm 102:25-27 anointed and eternal Hebrews 1:8-12 13 Psalm 110:1 called Lord Matthew 22:43-45 14 Isaiah 33:22 judge John 5:30 15 Psalm 2:6 king Matthew 27:37 16 Micah 5:2 born in Bethlehem Matthew 2:1, Luke 2:4-5, 7 17 Daniel 9:25 time for His birth Matthew 2:1, 16, 19, Luke 2:1-2 18 Isaiah 7:14 to be born of a virgin Matthew 1:18, 24, 25, Luke 1:26-27, 30-31 19 Psalm 72:9 worshipped by shepherds Luke 2:8-15 20 Psalm 72:10 honored by great kings Matthew 2:1-11 21 Jeremiah 31:15 slaughter of children Matthew 2:16-18 22 Hosea 11:1 flight to Egypt Matthew 2:14-15 23 Isaiah 40:3-5 the way prepared Matthew 3:1,2, Luke 3:3-6 24 Malachi 3:1 preceded by a forerunner Luke 7:24, 27 25 Malachi 4:5-6 preceded by Elijah Matthew 11:13-14 26 Psalm 2:7, Proverbs 30:4 declared the Son of God Matthew 3:17, Luke 1:32 27 Isaiah 9:5-6, Jeremiah 23:5-6 God's name applied to Him Romans 10:9, Philippians 2:9-11 28 Isaiah 11:2, 61:1, Psalm 45:8 anointment of Holy Spirit Matthew 3:16, 17, John 3:34, Acts 10:38 29 Isaiah 9:1-2 Galilean ministry Matthew 4:13-16 30 Psalm 78:2-4 speaks in parables Matthew 13:34-35 31 Isaiah 56:7, Jeremiah 7:11 temple becomes a house of merchandise instead of prayer Matthew 21:13 32 Psalm 69:9 zeal of Jews for the temple instead of God John 2:17 33 Deuteronomy 18:15, 18 a prophet Matthew 21:11, Acts 3:20, 22 34 Isaiah 29:18, Isaiah 35:5-6 blind, deaf, and lame are healed by the Messiah Luke 7:22, Matthew 9:35, 11:3-5 35 Isaiah 40:11, 42:2-3, Isaiah 53:7 Messiah will be meek and mild Matthew 12:18-20, Matthew 11:29, Hebrews 4:15 36 Isaiah 53:9 Be sinless and without guile 1 Peter 2:22 37 Isaiah 42:1, Isaiah 49:1 will minister to Gentiles Matthew 12:18-21Luke 2:32 38 Isaiah 61:1-2 to bind up the brokenhearted Luke 4:18-19 39 Isaiah 53:12, Isaiah 59:16 to intercede for the people Romans 8:34, Hebrews 7:25 40 Isaiah 53:3, 8:14, 28:16, 63:3, Psalms 69:6, 118:22 rejected by His own people, the Jews John 1:11, 7:5,48, Luke 23:18, Acts 4:11, 1 Peter 2:6-8 41 Psalm 118:22 Be rejected by the Jewish leadership Matthew 21:42, John 7:48 42 Psalm 2:1-2 plotted against by Jews and Gentiles alike Acts 4:27 43 Psalm 110:4 priest after the order of Melchizedek Hebrews 5:5-6 44 Zechariah 9:9 enter Jerusalem on donkey Mark 11:7, 9, 11, Luke 19:35-37 45 Haggai 2:7-9, Malachi 3:1 entered the temple with authority Matthew 21:12, Luke 2:27-38 46 Psalm 8:2 adored by infants Matthew 21:15-16 47 Isaiah 53:1 not believed John 12:37-38 48 Zechariah 13:7 sheep of the Shepherd scattered Matthew 26:31, Mark 14:50 49 Psalm 41:9, 55:13-15 betrayed by a close friend Matthew 10:4, Luke 22:47-48 50 Zechariah 11:12 betrayed for thirty pieces of silver Matthew 26:14-15 51 Zechariah 11:13 betrayal money used to buy Potter's field Matthew 27:6-7 52 Psalm 35:11 accused by false witnesses Mark 14:57-58 53 Isaiah 53:7 silent to accusations Matthew 27:12, Mark 15:4-5 54 Isaiah 50:6 spat on Matthew 26:67, 27:30 55 Isaiah 50:6 beaten Matthew 26:67, 27:26, 30 56 Micah 4:14 struck on cheek Matthew 27:30 57 Isaiah 49:7, Psalm 35:19, Psalm 69:4 hated without reason John 7:48, 15:24-25 58 Isaiah 53:5 wounded and bruised Matthew 27:26 59 Isaiah 53:5 vicarious sacrifice John 1:29, , 3:16, Romans 5:6, 8 60 Daniel 9:24-26 cut off, but not for Himself Matthew 2:1, Luke 3:1, 23 61 Isaiah 53:12 crucified with malefactors Matthew 27:38, Mark 15:27-28 62 Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 22:16 pierced through hands and feet Luke 23:33, John 20:25-27 63 Psalm 22:7-8 sneered and mocked Matthew 27:31, Luke 23:35 64 Psalm 109:24, 25 fell under the cross Luke 23:26 65 Psalm 69:9 was reproached Romans 15:3 66 Psalm 38:11 friends stood afar off Luke 23:49 67 Psalm 109:25 people shook their heads Matthew 27:39 68 Psalm 22:17 stared upon Luke 23:35 69 Psalm 22:16, 69:21 given vinegar for His thirst Matthew 27:34, John 19:28-29 70 Psalm 109:4, Isaiah 53:12 prayer for His enemies Luke 23:34 71 Psalm 22:17-18 soldiers gambled for His clothing Matthew 27:35-36, John 19:23, 24 72 Psalm 22:1 forsaken by God Matthew 27:46 73 Psalm 31:5 committed Himself to God Luke 23:46 74 Exodus 12:46, Psalm 34:20 no bones broken John 19:32, 33, 36 75 Psalm 22:14 heart broken John 19:34 76 Zechariah 12:10 His side pierced John 19:34 77 Amos 8:9 darkness over the land Matthew 27:45 78 Isaiah 53:9 buried with the rich Matthew 27:57-60 79 Psalm 3:5, 16:10, 49:15 to be resurrected Mark 16:6-7, Acts 2:31 80 Isaiah 44:3, Joel 2:28 sent the Holy Spirit John 20:22, Acts 2:16-17 81 Isaiah 55:3-4, Jeremiah 31:31 establishes a new covenant Matthew 26:28, Luke 22:20, Hebrews 8:6-10 82 Psalm 68:18, Psalm 110:1 His ascension to God's right hand Mark 16:19, Acts 1:9, 1 Corinthians 15:4, Ephesians 4:8, Hebrews 1:3 83 Psalm 29:11, Micah 4:3 peace proclaimed by disciples Luke 2:14, John 14:27, Acts 10:36 84 Isaiah 60:3 "Light" to Gentiles Acts 13:47,48 85 Isaiah 11:10, 42:1, 49:1-12 the Gentiles will seek the Messiah Romans 11:25, 15:10 Although some of these prophecies are vague and could have been deliberately fulfilled, many are very specific: 16. Place of birth (Micah 5:2). 17. Date of birth (Daniel 9:25). 18. Manner of birth (Isaiah 7:14). 62. Manner of death (Zechariah 12:10; Psalm 22:16 prophesied before the invention of crucifixion). 76. Piercing in side (Zechariah 12:10). 78. Burial (Isaiah 53:9). The Bible made several prophecies of the complete destruction of cities. Many of the cities it said would be rebuilt and several it claimed would never be rebuilt - The Bible is 100% accurate in both categories as archeology shows. One amazing example is the city of Tyre. Ezekiel 26:3-5,7,12,14 and (15) predict: Nebuchadnezzar will take the city. Other nations will participate in the fulfillment. The city is to be made flat like the top of a rock. It is to become a place for spreading nets. Its stones and timber are to be laid in the sea. The old city of Tyre will never be rebuilt. History records that Nebuchadnezzar took the adjacent mainland settlement of Ushu ("Old Tyre"), but the people escaped out to the island city. Later, Alexander the Great took the island off the coast by taking the old city's rubble and throwing it into the sea making a land-bridge (this caused the old city to look flat like a rock due to the scraping of the material). The old city is now a place for fisherman but no city has been planted there even though there is an excellent water supply to support a major city. Shelly, Rubel. 1990. Prepare To Answer. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, p 92. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16) "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished." (Matthew 5:18) Nelson Glueck, Rivers in the Desert, Farrar, Strauss and Cudahy, New York, 1959, p. 31. "For Acts the confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. Yet Acts is, in simple terms and judged externally, no less a propaganda document than the Gospels, liable to similar distortion. But any attempt to reject its basic historicity even in matters of detail must now appear absurd." A. N. Sherwin-White. 1978. Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament. Baker, Grand Rapids, p. 189. Flavius Josephus The Antiquities of the Jews 20.9.1 Matthew 12:24, Mark 3:22, Luke 11:15, Flavius Josephus The Antiquities of the Jews 18:63, Talmud P. Ta'an. 65b, and the Sanhedrin 3a Cornelius Tacitus Annals 15.44 from The Tech Classics Archive translated by Alfred John Church and William Jackson Brodribb Otto Betz. 1968. What do We Know about Jesus?, SCM Press, page 9. Encyclopedia Britannica (Article on "Jesus") H. G. Wells, Outline Of History. Bruins, H.J. and J. van der Plicht. 1996. The Exodus enigma. Nature 382: 213-214. Friedrich, W.L., P. Wagner, and H. Tauber. 1990. Thera and the Aegean World III Thera Foundation, London, UK. Kuniholm, P.I., B. Kromer, S.W. Manning, M. Newton, C.E. Latini, and M.J. Bruce. 1996. Anatolian tree rings and the absolute chronology of the eastern Mediterranean, 2220-718 BC. Nature 381: 780-783. Renfrew, C. 1996. Kings, tree rings and the old world. Nature 381: 733-734. Shelly, Rubel. 1990. Prepare To Answer. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, p 114. therefore, thus says the Lord God,` Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves. And they will destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers; and I will scrape her debris from her and make her a bare rock. She will be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea, for I have spoken,' declares the Lord God, `and she will become spoil for the nations.'... For thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great army.... Also they will make a spoil of your riches and a prey of your merchandise, break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses, and throw your stones and your timbers and your debris into the water.... And I will make you a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of nets. You will be built no more, for I the Lord have spoken," declares the Lord God.... "Then all the princes of the sea will go down from their thrones, remove their robes, and strip off their embroidered garments. They will clothe themselves with trembling; they will sit on the ground, tremble every moment, and be appalled at you." (Ezekiel 26:3-5,7,12,14,16) Is the Bible inspired? The doctrine of the inspiration of the Bible means that the Bible in the original documents is God-breathed, and that it is a divine product; and because it is divine, the original documents are inerrant. The copies of those documents are not inspired. We have copies of inspired documents. 2 Tim. 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." Paul who wrote this epistle was obviously referring to the entirety of the Old Testament as being inspired. The word "inspired" is literally "God-breathed." This is an interesting phrase since it implies that the Scriptures are from the mouth of God. Likewise, Peter says in 2 Pet. 1:21, "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." Notice that Peter is stating that prophecy is not the product of human will. Instead, prophecy occurs by those moved by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, we can easily see that the Old Testament Scriptures are full of statements and phrases claiming to be the Word of God. "Thus says the Lord" occurs 418 times in the NASB, 413 in the KJV Exodus 4:22, "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord, 'Israel is My son, My first-born.'" 1 Kings 11:31, "And he said to Jeroboam, 'Take for yourself ten pieces; for thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will tear the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon and give you ten tribes.'" Isaiah 7:7, "thus says the Lord God, 'It shall not stand nor shall it come to pass.'" "God said" occurs 46 times in both the NASB and the KJV Genesis 1:3, "Then God said, 'Let there be light'; and there was light." Exodus 3:14, "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you." Exodus 6:2-3, "God spoke further to Moses and said to him, 'I am the Lord; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, Lord, I did not make Myself known to them.'" God spoke through prophets 1 Kings 14:18, "And all Israel buried him and mourned for him, according to the word of the Lord which He spoke through His servant Ahijah the prophet." 2 Sam. 24:11-12, "When David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, 12 'Go and speak to David, Thus the Lord says, "I am offering you three things; choose for yourself one of them, which I may do to you."'" Zech. 7:7, "Are not these the words which the Lord proclaimed by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and prosperous with its cities around it, and the Negev and the foothills were inhabited?" The Spirit of the Lord spoke through people 2 Sam. 23:2, "The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, and His word was on my tongue." 1 Kings 22:24, "Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, 'How did the Spirit of the Lord pass from me to speak to you?'" 2 Chron. 20:14-15, "Then in the midst of the assembly the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, the Levite of the sons of Asaph; 15 and he said, 'Listen, all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and King Jehoshaphat: thus says the Lord to you, Do not fear or be dismayed because of this great multitude, for the battle is not yours but God's.'" As you can see, the Old Testament Scriptures are clearly full of statements showing the inspiration of God through the writers. The Old Testament assumes and speaks from the perspective of divine inspiration. Should we do any less? What about the New Testament? We see that the Old Testament is repeatedly spoken of as being inspired via the numerous references cited above but what about the New Testament? Are the New Testament books inspired as well? The Christian church has always considered the New Testament documents to be inspired. Though in the early church there were some debates on which New Testament books to include in the Bible, God worked through the Christian church to recognize those inspired works. Therefore we now have 27 inspired books for the New Testament. In 1 Cor. 14:37 Paul said, "If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment." In 2 Pet. 3:16 Peter said, "as also in all [Paul's] letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." Also, Jesus said in John 14:26, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." This means that the Lord has commissioned the apostles to accurately record what Jesus had said because the Holy Spirit would be working in them. So, we can see that Jesus promised direction from the Holy Spirit, that Paul considered what he wrote to be the commands of God, and that Peter recognized Paul's writings as Scripture. In addition, since the Christian Church recognizes the 27 books of the New Testament are inspired and since we see internal claims of inspiration in the New Testament, we conclude that inspiration applies to the New Testament documents as well. Objections Inspiration violates free will. A. Inspiration does not violate free will. What if the person through whom God is working has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and desires to have the Lord speak through him? Would this negate the ability of God to inerrantly speak through such a person? Would it also mean that the person has no free will if he has voluntarily subjected his will to the will of God? B. Certainly, God has the ability to work through individuals to bring them to a place where they can record inerrant statements. Cannot God manifest himself to someone, deliver to him a verbal message, and have that person record it? Would that statement not be inspired of God? C. Proverbs. 21:1,"The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever He wishes." This verse clearly states that God is able to work through an individual's "free will" to bring about what God desires. 2. What about the numerous contradictions in the Bible? A. It is true that there are difficulties with in the Word of God. But these are due to copying errors through the centuries. As more and more historical, archaeological, and manuscript evidence is uncovered, the fewer Bible difficulties there are. Nevertheless, for an examination of answers to the alleged Bible contradictions, please see www.BibleQuery.org. 3. The manuscript evidence doesn't support inerrancy of the originals. A. This is a subjective conclusion. The more I have studied about the ancient manuscripts, the more I have concluded that the original documents were indeed inspired and inerrant. B. The logical implication of the statements within the Bible is that they are inerrant since they claim to be offered from God. They either are or are not inspired of God. If they are not, then their claims of speaking for God are lies. 4. Inspiration applies to scripture--not people. A. God works sovereignly through people to inspire his documents. It is the people whom God indwells with his spirit and the people who are inspired by God to write his word. If inspiration only refers to Scripture, and somehow means that people are not themselves inspired, the Scriptures are still God-breathed and necessarily inerrant. For more see our website www.BibleQuery.org.

To begin with, if you had thoroughly listened to the scriptures being quoted throughout this debate your question would cease to have any validity. Biblical theology is completely foreign to any of the other mythical gods that are out there. Unlike the other phony religions, the Bible has 2000 fulfilled prophecies, archeology, manuscript evidence & real history behind it. See our RU-vid video "FRAUDULENT NEW AGE "ZEITGEIST" MOVIE DECEIVES MANY" which deals with "Horus, Isis, etc." John 14:6

See our playlist "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 45 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB&feature=plcp. John 10:30, "I and [my] Father are one." ] Not in person, for the Father must be a distinct person from the Son, and the Son a distinct person from the Father; and which is further manifest, from the use of the verb plural, "I and [my] Father", (esmen) , "we are one"; that is, in nature and essence, and perfections, particularly in power; since Christ is speaking of the impossibility of plucking any of the sheep, out of his own and his Father's hands; giving this as a reason for it, their unity of nature, and equality of power; so that it must be as impracticable to pluck them out of his hands, as out of his Father's, because he is equal with God the Father, and the one God with him. The Jew F16 objects, that ``if the sense of this expression is, that the Father and the Son are one, as the Nazarenes understand and believe it, it will be found that Jesus himself destroys this saying, as it is written in ( Mark 13:32 ) , for saith Jesus, "that day and that hour, there is knoweth, not the angels, nor the Son, but the Father only"; lo, these words show, that the Father and the Son are not one, since the Son does not know what the Father knows.'' But it should be observed, that Christ is both the Son of God, and the son of man, as the Christians believe; as he is the Son of God, he lay in the bosom of his Father, and was privy to all his secrets, to all his thoughts, purposes, and designs; and as such, he knew the day and hour of judgment, being God omniscient; and in this respect is one with the Father, having the same perfections of power, knowledge but then as the son of man, he is not of the same nature, and has not the same knowledge; his knowledge of things was derived, communicated, and not infinite; and did not reach to all things at once, but was capable of being increased, as it was: and it is with regard to him as the son of man, that Jesus speaks of himself in ( Mark 13:32 ) ; whereas he is here treating of his divine sonship, and almighty power; wherefore considered in the relation of the Son of God, and as possessed of the same perfections with God, he and his Father are one; though as man, he is different from him, and knew not some things he did: so that there is no contradiction between the words of Christ in one place, and in the other; nor is he chargeable with any blasphemy against God, or any arrogance in himself, by assuming deity to himself; nor deserving of punishment, even to be deprived of human life, as the Jew suggests; nor is what he produces from a Socinian writer, of any moment, that these words do not necessarily suppose, that the Father and the Son are of the same essence; since it may be said of two men, that they are one, end yet are not the same man, but one is one man, and the other another; for we do not say they are one and the same person, which does not follow from their being of one and the same nature, but that they are one God, and two distinct persons. FOOTNOTES: F16 Isaac Chizzuk Emuna, par. 2. c. 50. p. 438, 439. John 10:29 John 10:31

This is in response to Pentecostals who attack the Trinity & say criticizing Pentecostals & their "gifts" will bring confusion to the lost. The truth of the matter is it is Charismatics & Pentecostals who generally cause disgrace to Christianity among non believers. To prove this see our video "Blasphemous Charismatic & Pentecostal Mayhem #1: Mad Delusional Experiences Replace Scripture Alone" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Kbv7YsyMf0I.html & "Blasphemous Charismatic & Pentecostal Mayhem #2: A Hyped Circus, Sham Unity, Catholic Charismatics" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-E-BWQeCkFfM.html. See our playlist " Dealing with Phony TV Preachers (TBN) & King James Onlyites" at ru-vid.com/group/PL2CDA855486B09128. Muslims, atheists & numerous other non Christian religions utilize video footage of riotous, chaotic & idiotic Charismatic & Pentecostal "church" activities where their delusional participants bark like dogs, fall to the floor, scream, speak in tongues simultaneously (violating 1 Corinthians chapter 14), act like wild animals, laugh uncontrollably & on the list goes to prove to the world how ridiculous "Christianity" is. Some have said that Charismatic & Pentecostal TV preachers & their followers have caused more to turn away from Christianity than for any other reason. Titus 1:9-16, "Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

Hi I am writing from Bulgaria ...I am new in the truth of Jehovahs witnesses ... and something bothers me elders told me that i must not hallo to brothers who are disfellowshipped ... so far so good .... yes i agree because the bible say we must not even greet those people ...MY PROBLEM IS THAT NOW THE ELDERS TOLD ME THAT I CAN USE DISFELLOWSHIPPED EX-BROTHERS FOR BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS ... is that unbiblical rule or what? PLEASE HELP i am seriously thinking to go out from the so called "truth"

***** Greetings and God bless, I have a sincere and pressing question about 2 Corinthians 3:17 which says "Now the Lord is the Spirit" referring to Jesus as it is seen in the surrounding context. This scripture is used by Oneness Pentecostal's and modalists in general to prove that Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit and that there is no distinction in personhood between them.

I believe that the answer you are searching for is in Exodus 3:11-14 its specifically in verse 14. Part 1 of 2 The jews themselves translate this "THE ETERNAL ONE" so actually, because Gods name is unprononceable and because it transcends all human knowleadge they spoke of HIM the one who was the one who is and the one who always will be "Aijah"

Then you want to see the debate by Dr James White and the Oneness Pentacostal. James completely refuted ANYTHING the man could possibly say during his opening presentation and James presented first! Knowing Greek made John:1:1... explicitly trinitarian beyond any shadow of a doubt. The other guy had nothing really to add after that.

Then, in spirituality Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit and in spirituality and in NATURE ONE. To see the Father means that he would have seen the Nature of the Father. John 6:46 "No one hath seen the Father EXCEPT THROUGH me". Now if no one hath seen the father, and Philip wanted to SEE the father, Jesus didn't explicitly say I am the father. He said that the only way to see the father is through him which means that if we watch Jesus dead in his eyes and we look through, something must

The wicked hate the wrath, justice & judgment of a Holy God. Get an in-depth study of the Biblical Doctrine of Hell besides videos on our playlist "Dealing with Hell, Lake of Fire, Unpopular Bible Doctrines" at ru-vid.com/group/PLE04A1D0DFE95B95E by going to "Eternal Punishment, Part 1" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12607145320 & "Eternal Punishment, Part 2" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12607143539 by A.W. Pink. Great preaching on this subject can be found at "Heaven & Hell" by Charles Haddon Spurgeon at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=8702112616 & "The Sinner's End, Hell Opens Wide Her Jaws, the Sinner Falls To Destruction, Spurgeon" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1014131452290; "A Few Sighs From Hell" by John Bunyan at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=112903233617; "The Eternity of Hell Torments" by George Whitefield at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11307232342; Men Don't Regard Warnings of Future Punishment As Hell Doesn't Seem Real - Edwards" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1031121125362, "The Torments of Hell Are Exceeding Great, A Rich Man Went to Hell and Was Tormented" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=51513154140, "They That Are Gone to Hell Are All of Them in Despair, Eternal Damnation by Edwards" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=219131311338 & "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=113003134610 by Jonathan Edwards, "God's Hell" by John Wagner at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=6501212239; "A Tour of Hell" by E.A. Johnston at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=7251216250; other great Biblical messages about the doctrine of Hell can be found at www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?currSection=sermonstopic&keyworddesc=Hell&keyword=hell. See our newsletter on Hell with plenty of Biblical references on our website www.biblequery.org/ (once on the homepage click on the "experience" box to the left then scroll down to the newsletter section & click on "Turn or Burn." The wicked hate the Biblical doctrine of Hell & will create any myth to pretend it is not real or eternal in the conscious divine punishment of the damned. "Be not deceived, GOD IS NOT MOCKED: For whatsover a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Galations 6:7). "VENGEANCE IS MINE; I WILL REPAY SAITH THE LORD" (Rom. 12:19). "Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and THAT WILL BY NO MEANS CLEAR THE GUILTY" (Exodus 34:7). Jesus said, "It would have been good for that man if he had not been born" (Matthew 26:24). Why would Jesus say this if there wasn't something far worse waiting for that man after this life is over? Interestingly enough, over the years many atheists have flocked to our RU-vid hell videos with unusual curiosity. Why do they bother if they don't think it is real? 2 Timothy 2:15

The fact that Jesus withstood God's wrath seems proof enough to me that He's God. I mean, who else could do that?

@cvnt6 A point well made! John 17:5 makes this abundantly clear in the DISTINCTION between Jesus & the Father, "And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine Own Self with the glory which I had WITH THEE before the world was." Jesus was definitely NOT praying to Himself! There are many more examples of this. For further Scriptural information, readers of these comments can reference to our 4 hour video series, BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY (search LARRY WESSELS TRINITY on RU-vid). Matt 28:19

Why I send the two videos together. Using that logic, Judaism will prove Jesus, the Son of God is God. For example in Judaism, only God is: the light of the world; good; forgives sins; and is to be worshiped. The Son of God was involved in all these activities. Using the definition of "I AM" meaning self existing in Hebrew, the phrase is a name of God in Judaism, so the Son of God is not created by definition. Either the Son of God who is named Jesus is God or he lied in one/multiple ways.

Let's look at the original Hebrew Text: אביעד שר־שלום or Abi Ad Sar Shalom or The Father OF Eternity, Prince of Peace..The correct transliteration should be --אבי עד (Abi Ad)- Father of Eternity (or Eternal Father) because of the use of Makkeph (') between Abi and Ad..which normally connects the first word to the other...which is equivalent to the english word "of"...Father OF Eternity should be the most accurate translation rather than the Eternal Father...

This Oneness guy just got his doctrine ripped off and handed back to him. It is not too often that we see such a one (no pun intented) sided victory over the other. The Oneness fella was clearly outclassed.

Death can come suddenly & unexpectedly. Hear deathbed testimonies of the damned during their last days, hours & moments before going into eternity: "Horrifying & Terrifying Death Bed Scenes Of Atheists, Apostates & Reprobates (1/3)" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=731131047310, "Horrifying & Terrifying Death Bed Scenes Of Atheists, Apostates & Reprobates (2/3)" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=731131111372, "Horrifying & Terrifying Death Bed Scenes Of Atheists, Apostates & Reprobates (3/3)" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=731131132150, "Death-Bed of a Free-Thinker, Exemplified in the Last Hours of Hon. Francis Newport" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=72913130359, "Death-Bed Scenes, Death-Bed Repentance Rarely Occurs, As Men Live, So Do Men Die #1" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=927131122460, "Death-Bed Scenes, Death-Bed Repentance Rarely Occurs, As Men Live, So Do Men Die #2" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=927131158132; "Dying Testimonies Of The Unsaved, The Awful Death Of An Infidel Son Who Hated Jesus" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=104131120148, & although this next recording is not an actual deathbed testimonial it is highly informative concerning Judas & other reprobates, "The Repentance of Judas, or, the Lamentable Effects of a Startled Conscience" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=310141542316. Listeners will notice numerous similar patterns among the final words & actions of the damned. Many seem to sense the flames of hell & the presence of demonic entities before death overtakes them. An excellent Biblical analysis of eternal punishment in hell & the lake of fire is given by the outstanding theologian A.W. Pink - "Eternal Punishment, part 1" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12607145320 & "Eternal Punishment, part 2" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=12607143539 where he at the same time refutes the arguments of universalists, annihilationists & heretics who say God is "all loving" & would not torment the wicked forever while they ignore the fact that God hates the wicked (Psalm 5:4-6, 11:5, Hosea 9:15, etc.; see our video "The God of the Bible Does Not Love Everybody But Actually Hates Many Instead (Romans 9:22)" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0zHEJCHgQVg.html). Hear also Charles Haddon Spurgeon on this subject in his sermon "The Sinner's End, Hell Opens Wide Her Jaws, the Sinner Falls To Destruction" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1014131452290 & Jonathan Edward's famous sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=113003134610. Besides all this readers can click on our playlist "Dealing with Hell, Lake of Fire, Unpopular Bible Doctrines" with 30 videos & 31 hours of teaching material at ru-vid.com/group/PLE04A1D0DFE95B95E. Don't depend on a last second deathbed conversion to save you from the wrath of a holy God. Come to the Biblical Jesus Christ today for salvation in repentance & faith (2 Corinthians 6:2, "behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation; Acts 16:31, "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved;" Mark 1:15, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel;" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, "Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures," Revelation 1:8, Jesus is the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.", Revelation 1:18, Jesus says "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." Becoming a true Christian is not easy therefore count the cost. Becoming a true Christian is not saying a quick prayer & thinking you're okay. Becoming a true Christian is not getting water baptized as a baby or as an adult (see our video "IS WATER BAPTISM NECESSARY TO ESCAPE HELL & BE SAVED & ARE YOU "BORN AGAIN" (JOHN 3:3-8) BY IT?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wYJtMV9qrWg.html. You must be supernaturally "born again" by a sovereign act of God through the power of the Holy Spirit (John 1:12-13, 3:3-8; Titus 3:5-7; John 6:37, 39, 44, 63, 65; Ephesians 3:16-21; Romans 8:1-17; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Luke 14:26-35, “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it- 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.34 “Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” Luke 6:46, Jesus said, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Becoming a true Christian will change your life forever in this life & the next (2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."). Beg God to save you since you cannot get into heaven by your own righteousness & good works (Ephesians 2:8-10, "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."). Keep begging God for salvation through Jesus Christ until the day comes that He grants your request (Acts 13:48, "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." & 2 Timothy 2:25-26, "24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."). When you are supernaturally regenerated by the Holy Spirit you will know it & suddenly have the power to repent of your evil ways & for the first time you will actually love God more than your own life knowing that nothing in creation is more important than God alone. You will then spend the rest of eternity loving, serving & praising God for He is worthy. John 14:6, "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." See our video "IS JESUS GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE FLESH MEANING THE SECOND PERSON OF THE TRINITY OR IS HE SOMETHING ELSE?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_BlPm7M7uv8.html.

Our RU-vid channel CAnswersTV (which stands for Christian Answers Television) features over 639 videos from a Biblical worldview organized according to topics. Our main channel can be accessed at ru-vid.com where all our videos & playlists are on display. Here are our available playlists: 1. "Popular Uploads" at ru-vid.com/videos?shelf_id=2&view=0&sort=p 2. "Dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, Watchtower Society" with 25 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLCF0ADB29C0EB8C40. 3. "Dealing with Islam, Muslims: Sunni, Shi'ite, Alawites, Sufis" with 73 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL1C7F68B548009FDD. 4. "Dealing with Roman Catholicism, Idolatry & the Virgin Mary" with 140 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLFFA8D69D1B914715. 5. "Dealing with Darwin's Metaphysical Evolution Religion" with 21 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL0703E78058346A52. 6. "Dealing with Seventh-day Adventism & Their "Prophetess" with 26 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL5316CC6F66F24283. 7. "Dealing with Anti Trinitarians (UPC) & Early Church History" with 53 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL9931642C7C8FFEAB. 8. "Dealing with "God Hating" Atheists, Agnostics, Know-It-Alls" with 21 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL640E505B96CD6B39. 9. "Dealing with Phony TV Preachers (TBN) & King James Onlyites" with 30 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL2CDA855486B09128. 10. "Dealing with UFOs, Ghosts, Magic, Spiritual Warfare, Satan" with 19 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL2CF1129D311BF9A6. 11. "Radio Shows with National Christian Authors & Music Vids" with 52 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLF01B4264276D2990. 12. "Dealing with Black Muslims, Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam" with 25 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLD3B79AA00CCF21B7. 13. "Dealing with Mormonism, The Con Man Religion of Joseph Smith, Jr." with 23 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL11CD0EE613306BB5. 14. "Dealing with Hell, Lake of Fire, Unpopular Bible Doctrines" with 33 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLE04A1D0DFE95B95E. 15. "Dealing with AntiChrist Cults, "New Age" & World Religions" with 45 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL69A3047B3497590A. 16. "Dealing with "Saved by Works & Baptism", "Church of Christ" with 75 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLBD55090718DA6D3D. 17. "Charles H. Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, Our Spanish Videos" with 26 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLE91032ED05E42487. 18. "End Times, Supernatural Prophecies, Tough Bible Questions" with 49 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL141F261EEFCFD536. 19. "Dealing with Predestination, Arminianism & Calvinism" with 82 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PLA932903698A56780. We also have channels on Sermon Audio at www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=christiananswers & www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakeronly=true&currsection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Larry_Wessels. Although the 30 plus videos we have posted on www.SermonAudio.com are also on RU-vid the thing that makes these particular videos of interest is that we have produced written transcripts of many of them which has helped quite a few people. Once you click on one of the transcribed videos scroll down to "Sermon Transcription" & choose your options: "View Transcript!," "Download PDF," or "Send to Kindle." Viewers also have the option of over 20 different languages to get the transcription in by going to the "Google Translation" option. Everything is free with nothing to buy. Here are just a few examples of some of our videos that have free transcriptions available: "Early Christian Church History Proves Roman Catholicism False" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=113161415591, "Divine Curse of the Hebrew Roots Movement - Replacing Jesus with the Old Testament" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=108151527437, "Debate: Larry Wessels Versus Two Jehovah's Witnesses at a University Study Center" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=108141526191, "Spiritual Counterfeit: ONENESS PENTECOSTALISM DENIES THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF TRINITY" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52015115043, "Unpopular Bible Doctrines #1: The God No One Wants To Know" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=311141259524, "Islam's 1400 Year History of Violent Jihad For Sex Slaves, Money & Jew Hatred" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=324161224286, "The Sovereignty of God Versus Man-Made Religions, Petty Emotionalism" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52015125752, "The Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity- Part 3 (Answering Common Attacks Against the Trinity)" at www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=32416129330. There are many more but this is just a small sampling of what is available at no charge. Blessings to all. 2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

To those who wish to discuss issues brought up in our video posted here to a greater extent please know that you can email one of our ministry volunteers at certainandsecure@gmail.com. Also realize that we may have an entire playlist of videos on this subject on our RU-vid channel at ru-vid.com. Besides that know that we have three websites to answer additional questions at www.BibleQuery.org (answers over 8500 questions on the Bible & refutes critics of the Bible), www.HistoryCart.com (this website deals with an in depth analysis of early Christian church history) and www.MuslimHope.com (this website is a documented refutation of Islam, a false religious & political ideology of warlike jihad against all unbelievers invented by Muhammad while he was in Medina for the last 9 years of his life where he averaged one offensive military jihad of pillage, rape & slavery every month to six weeks against his neighbors which eventually led to conquering all of Saudi Arabia- see also www.politicalislam.com/, www.answeringmuslims.com/, answering-islam.org/, www.jihadwatch.org/ & our playlist "Dealing with Islam, Muslims: Sunni, Shi'ite, Alawites, Sufis" with 71 videos & counting at ru-vid.com/group/PL1C7F68B548009FDD). 1 Peter 3:15

@ChristusVlCTOR John.3:16 says God so loved the world, that he gave His Only Begotten son so that whoever believed in Him would not perish, but should have eternal life. It doesn't say that God so loved the world that He gave Himself. He gave His Eternal son Micah 5:2. If I was to give my son as a sacrifice to save your life I wouldn't be giving you myself, but my Genes my Son would have, Christ is God expressed. The exact image of the Father.in the flesh, Son of man, Son of God See Phil 2:6-9

We have a website, www.muslimhope.com/, which is meant to help Christians share their Christian faith with Muslims around the world thus we have it set up for several different languages. Our website covers: Arabic, Indonesian, Malaysian, Punjabi, Swahili, Turkish, & Urdu. For example, if a person's native language is Arabic who the Christian is dealing with they can go to that language on our website & once there click on the English topics to the left where this topic then will be translated into Arabic which can then be shared with Arabic speakers. The same applies for any of these other languages. For example, here's the link to our Urdu section at www.muslimhope.com/Urdu/index.htm. See also our playlist "Dealing with Islam, Muslims: Sunni, Shi'ite, Alawites, Sufis" with 67 videos & counting at ru-vid.com/group/PL1C7F68B548009FDD. "Google Translate" on the internet also affords Christians the opportunity to translate their own language into another language as well as taking written information from various Christian websites dealing with Islam (see our link to them at www.muslimhope.com/LinksOnIslam.htm) & translating valuable information from them into another language for sharing with Muslims. Matthew 28:19-20, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Using "Google Translate" Matthew 28:19-20 then becomes, for example, in Turkish, "Matta 28: 19-20, Bu nedenle gidin, ve Baba adına onları vaftiz, tüm ulusları öğretmek, Oğul ve Kutsal Ruh'un: Seni komuta var olursa olsun onları Öğretim her şeyi gözlemlemek için: ve, lo, ben bile dünyanın sonu dediler, hep seninleyim. Amin." John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." can then become "يوحنا 14: 6، "قال له يسوع، أنا هو الطريق والحق والحياة:. ليس أحد يأتي إلى الآب إلا بي in Arabic. Remember what saint Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:22, "To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." which translated into Punjabi is 1 ਕੁਰਿੰ 9:22, "ਕਮਜ਼ੋਰ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ, ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕਮਜ਼ੋਰ ਹਾਸਲ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਕਿ, ਮੈਨੂੰ ਦੇ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਕਮਜ਼ੋਰ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ:. ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਭ ਲੋਕ ਲਈ ਸਭ ਕੁਝ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ ਰਿਹਾ, ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਾਰੇ ਢੰਗ ਨਾਲ ਕੁਝ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਾਉਣ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ". 2 Timothy 4:2-5, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." Thus a Christian can take a passage like this & translate it into 91 different languages on Google Translate (use the official 'Google' site rather than something else that looks similar). Keep in mind that the computer translation is not always perfect but it is better than nothing at all. There has never been a better opportunity to "do the work of an evangelist" in this modern technological age.

See our video "RISE OF THE CULTS: WHERE DID ALL THESE STRANGE AMERICAN RELIGIOUS SECTS COME FROM?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HfVTXbFrvh8.html & our playlist "Dealing with Mormonism, The Con Man Religion of Joseph Smith, Jr." at ru-vid.com/group/PL11CD0EE613306BB5 with 20 videos. The history of Mormonism is as follows: 1805 Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, is born in Sharon, Vermont. 1820 In response to his first uttered prayer, Joseph Smith purportedly has First Vision of God the Father and Jesus (Pearl of Great Price, "Joseph Smith - History" vv. 3, 17-19). (See 1832a, 1834d, 1835a, b, 1840b, 1842a, 1855a, 1879a.) 1827 Angel Moroni gives Smith the Golden Plates which will become the Book of Mormon (Ibid., v. 59). 1830 (a) Smith finishes translation of the Golden Plates and publishes Book of Mormon (BoM). This book contains two very interesting doctrines which would become pivotal in later years. First, only one God in the Godhead (Alma 11:22-35; cf. 1842a, 1844a, c, d.) Second, David's and Solomon's polygamy was an abomination to God (Jacob 2:24-35; cf. Doctrine &Covenants, 132:38-39). (See 1838c cross dates.) (b) April 6, church founded - Name: The Church of Christ (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 73). (See 1834b, 1838d.) 1832 (a) First Vision account recorded for the first time. Joseph Smith says he was "in the 16th year of my age," and "I saw the Lord ... (who) was crucifyed for the world." No mention of the Father (Joseph Smith's 1832 Diary). (See 1820 cross-dates.) (b) Joseph Smith gives prophecy of temple to be built at Independence, in Jackson County, Missouri. "A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith ... to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem ... in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri ... beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord..." (D&C, 84:1-5) This proved to be a false prophecy (see 1833b, 1871, 1996b). 1833 (a) First 65 revelations printed in Book of Commandments. (See 1835c.) (b) Mormons are driven out of Jackson County, Missouri. (See 1832b, 1871, 1996b). 1834 (a) Lectures on Faith first published for "School of the Elders" (Church News, 7 January, 1989, p. 4). (See 1835c, 1842a.) (b) Name of church changed to "The Church of the Latter Day Saints" (Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 73). (See 1830, 1838d.) (c) February 24, Smith receives revelation explaining persecution of Mormons in Jackson County, Missouri, wherein Independence, and the appointed temple lot are located. They are promised, "I have decreed a decree which my people shall realize, inasmuch as they hearken from this very hour unto the counsel which I, the Lord their God, shall give unto them. Behold they shall, for I have decreed it, begin to prevail against mine enemies from this very hour. And by hearkening to observe all the words which I, the Lord their God, shall speak unto them, they shall never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given to the saints, to possess it forever" (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:5-7). This, too, proved to be a false prophecy (see 1841). (See also 1838b, 1839b, 1840a.) (d) New First Vision information on Joseph Smith's age. "I shall, therefore, pass over that, till I come to the 15th year of his life" (Messenger and Advocate, Dec. 1834, Vol. 1, p. 42). (See 1820 cross-dates.) 1835 (a) New First Vision information on Smith's age in Mormon newspaper, Messenger and Advocate. "You will recollect that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr.'s, age - that was an error in type - it should have been in the 17th" (Ibid., Feb. 1835, Vol. 1, p. 76). (See 1820 cross dates.) (b) New First Vision account. Joseph Smith writes in his diary, "...a personage appeared in the midst of this pillar of flame...another personage soon appeared like unto the first, he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee, he testifyed unto me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; and I saw many angels in this vision when I was about 14 years old when I received this first communication" (1835 Diary, Nov. 9). (See 1820 cross dates.) (c) The Doctrine &Covenants, containing the Lectures on Faith (see 1842a) and the purported revelations of Joseph Smith up to this date, is published. This is a major revision of the Book of Commandments. Hundreds of words are changed from the original revelations (see 1833a). A new section on marriage (101), contains: "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. (See 1838c cross-dates.) (d) Church purchases Egyptian papyrus manuscripts from Michael H. Chandler. Joseph Smith claims to translate them by revelation, says they were actually written by Abraham of the Bible (making them thousands of years older than any extant manuscript of the Bible). Carbon-14 and most of the sophisticated dating methods known to modern science are still unknown. Study of ancient Egyptian language is an infant science and Joseph has no contemporaries who can disprove his translation. (See 1851, 1912b, 1966a, 1967.) 1836 First Mormon Temple is built in Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith would later claim to see Jesus, Moses, Elijah and Elias in this temple (Deseret News Church Almanac, 1979, p. 47). 1838 (a) April 17, Joseph Smith receives revelation to send David W. Patton on a mission "next spring" (1839) "in company with" other Mormon Twelve Apostles (D&C,;sec. 114; see also sec. 118). However, in October David W. Patton is shot and killed in mob action (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 171). (See 1839a.) (b) April 26, Smith receives another revelation, wherein the people are commanded to "build a house" unto the Lord at Far West, Missouri. They were to "recommence laying the foundation of my house" one year later, 26 April, 1839, and were to "labor diligently" on it "from that time forth...until it shall be finished, from the cornerstone thereof unto the top thereof, until there shall not anything remain that is not finished" (D&C,115:8-12). (See 1839b, 1840a, 1841, 1996b.) (c) Church publicly denies belief in polygamy. In questions and answers prepared for and printed in The Elder's Journal, Joseph Smith writes: Q: "Do the Mormons believe in having more wives than one?" A: "No, not at the same time" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 28). (See 1829, 1835c, 1838c, 1843b, 1844b, c, 1852b, 1853, 1854c, 1855b, 1856c, 1866b, c, 1876, 1879b, 1887a, 1890a, b, 1898b, 1906, 1963.) (d) Name of the Church changes again. "For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (D&C,115:4). (See 1830, 1834b.) (e) July 4, In a carefully prepared speech approved by Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon declares, "...that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us,...one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed" (Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, p. 441). (See 1838f, 1840a.) (f) October 27, Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs issues orders to militia Major-General John Clark, "...The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated, or driven from the state, if necessary for the public peace" (Document 61, LDS church Historical Department, quoted in Richard Van Wagoner, Sidney Rigdon, A Portrait of Religious Excess, p. 236). (See 1838e, 1840a). 1839 (a) Sometime between midnight and dawn of April 26, seven Mormon Apostles (two of them ordained on the spot) "officially" take their leave of "the saints" - eighteen of them present - for their mission to England. However, their vain attempt to fulfill Joseph Smith's prophecies of the previous year fails. David W. Patton is dead and unable to go with them as called and prophesied. Neither is there a full Quorum of Twelve in existence at the time, able to depart "in company with" each other as prophesied. Two of those in the Quorum at this time are temporarily dropped from it just eight days later. And not even all of the seven present actually go on their mission "over the waters." Of those who do, none leaves that spring as prophesied, but not until late August and September following. Frequently touted by Mormons as a "fulfilled prophecy," this "event" is in fact a complete failure (History of the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 336-39; Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, pp. 531-32; Vol. 2, pp. 22-24; Deseret News 1993-1994 Church Almanac, pp. 44, 46, 47, 52-54). (See 1838a.) (b) Another cornerstone of the "Lord's House" in Far West is laid in an attempt to also fulfill Doctrine &Covenants section 115 (see 1838b). However, this also fails as the Mormons do not labor diligently from this time forward to complete the building until it is finished. They can not. The forced Mormon exodus from Missouri is in full progress. (See also 1841, 1996b.) 1840 (a)Fully routed from Missouri and settling in Commerce, Illinois, the Mormons rename it, Nauvoo. (b) New First Vision information. "You will recollect that I informed you, in my letter published in the first No. of the Messenger and Advocate, that this history would necessarily embrace the life and character of our esteemed friend and brother J. Smith...I shall, therefore, pass over that, till I come to the thirteenth year of this life" (Times and Seasons, Dec. 1, 1840, p. 1). (See 1820 cross-dates.) (c) Lorenzo Snow, who will become fifth prophet of the Mormon Church, receives the following "revelation" according to his own words. "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." This is explicitly confirmed by Joseph Smith in 1843 (Ensign, Feb. 1982, pp. 39-40). 1841 January 19: in a revelation requiring the saints to build both a boarding house and a temple in Nauvoo, Smith finds it necessary to allay concerns over previous failed prophecies and commands to build temples (see 1832b, 1833b, 1838b, 1839b). "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept their offering....Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God" (D&C, 124:49, 51). By thus acknowledging both their diligence to obey and their failure to succeed due to their enemies, Smith inadvertantly contradicts promise of revelation given seven years previous (see 1834c), that if the saints diligently obeyed they would from that time forth always prevail over their enemies. 1842 (a) Section 130 is added to the Doctrine &Covenants, in which God the Father is declared to have "a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," and the Holy Spirit is said to be "a personage of Spirit." Official First Vision account also finally published. This is the account found today in the Mormon Scripture, The Pearl of Great Price, in which God the Father and Jesus appear to Joseph Smith in separate physical bodies. (See 1820 cross-dates.) These two additions conflict with former teachings contained in the Lectures on Faith, which from 1835 have been the "Doctrine" part of the Mormon scripture, Doctrine &Covenants (see Preface, "Lecture First" and "Section 1," D&C,;1835 ed.). The Lectures on Faith describe not the Holy Ghost, but God the Father as a "personage of spirit." They call the Holy Ghost the Holy Spirit, and include the Holy Spirit in the Godhead. However there are only two personages in the Godhead, the Father and the Son (cf. 1829, 1844a, d). The Holy Spirit is described as merely the mind shared by the Father and the Son (N.B. Lundwall, comp., Lectures on Faith, Lec. 5, pp. 48-53). Publication of all these conflicting teachings together in the same volume of scripture for many years (see 1921) inevitably leads to unbiblical Momon distinction between Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost. (b) August 20, Orson Pratt, one of the original Twelve Mormon Apostles, is excommunicated for apparent disagreements with Joseph Smith over polygamy and Smith's sexual advances to Sarah Pratt, Orson's wife (Nauvoo: Kingdom on the Mississippi, pp. 269-70). 1843 (a) Orson Pratt reinstated January 20 as member of the Twelve Apostles (Deseret News Church Almanac, 1979, p. 104) (See 1842b and 1875.) (b) Revelation recorded July 12, 1843, authorizes eternal, plural marriage. As noted in current editions of the Doctrine &Covenants, "it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831." That is, historical records show Joseph Smith was sexually involved with women other than his legal wife Emma, long before this revelation is written, despite published denials. (See 1835c, 1838c, 1844b.) Revelation makes eternal and plural marriage essential to exaltation (see 1852b, 1855b, 1866b). It is also called an "everlasting covenant," leading later Mormon prophets and apostles to frequently claim its practice was protected by God and could never be stopped (see 1856c, 1866c, 1879b). (See also 1829, 1844c, 1876, 1887a, 1890a, b, 1898b, 1906.) 1844 (a) In April, Joseph Smith preaches perhaps his most famous sermon. "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil so that you may see...He was once a man like us; yea that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did...Here, then is eternal life...you have got learn how to be Gods yourselves,...the same as all Gods have done before you" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46). (See 1829, 1842a, 1844c, d.) (b) May 26, Smith again denies polygamy: "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 411). (See 1838c cross-dates.) (c) June 7, first and only copy of the Nauvoo Expositor published. Accuses Smith of practicing polygamy and teaching polytheism. (See 1838c cross-dates.) (d) June 16, Joseph Smith preaches on the plurality of Gods: "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 474) (See 1829, 1842a, 1844a.) (e) June 27, mob attacks jail in Carthage, Illinois, where Joseph Smith and others are being held on charges of treason. Overwhelmed in an obviously unfairly matched gunfight, Joseph Smith nevertheless kills two men and wounds a third with a small pistol previously smuggled into the prison. Both Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum are killed (History of the Church, Vol. 7, p. 103). The mob's action is inexcusable. But fighting for his life with an illegally obtained weapon, Joseph cannot legitimately be called a martyr in the sense with which that word has been applied down through the centuries to Christian martyrs who were willing to suffer death for their faith. (f) Several splinter groups break off from main group in Nauvoo during the next few years (see Shields, Divergent Paths of the Restoration). 1845 Brigham Young, who will become the second Mormon prophet, seems to teach against Blood Atonement. "When men have come into our midst who were as corrupt as the devil himself, many have supposed it would have been better to have cut their throats with a feather and exposed their sins of corruption, and let them go to hell where they belonged, than to have borne with them as Brother Joseph Smith did; but this course would meet with a conflicting argument" (History of the Church, Vol. 7, p. 366). (See 1856a, 1977a.) 1846 (a) Nauvoo Temple dedicated. (b) The Oath of Vengeance is implemented into the Temple ceremony. This is an oath against the killers of Joseph Smith (Diary Journal of Abraham H. Cannon; as quoted in Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?, p. 475). (See 1926.) (c) Brigham Young guides the majority of the people left in Nauvoo in move to Utah (Nauvoo: Kingdom on the Mississippi, p. 306). 1847 (a) Mormons reach the Salt Lake Valley. (b) Brigham Young officially becomes the second Prophet of the Mormon church (Deseret News Almanac, 1079, p. 92). 1851 The first edition of the Pearl of Great Price, including the "Book of Moses" and the "Book of Abraham," is printed (see 1835d cross-dates). Moses 7:8 and Abraham 1:21-27 become "scriptural basis" for denying priesthood to Blacks of African descent (see 1854b cross-dates). 1852 (a) Young teaches Adam-God doctrine. "When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken - He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 50). (See 1854a, 1856b, 1873, 1903, 1912a, 1976, 1981a.) (b) Polygamy is openly taught in specially convened conference in Salt Lake City. Revelation dated July 12, 1843, which teaches, even commands, plural marriage to be practiced, is publicly read, then expounded on by Apostle Orson Pratt and President Brigham Young (Smith, Essentials in Church History, p. 394). The revelation is incorporated twenty-four years later (see 1876) into the Doctrine &Covenants. (See 1838c cross-dates.) 1853 Mormon apostle and later counselor to Brigham Young in Church's First Presidency Jedediah M. Grant quotes with approval pagan philosopher Celsus, "The grand reason why the gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed him." He goes on to say, "The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were 'Mormons'" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 345-46; see 1854c, 1963a). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) 1854 (a) Orson Pratt vehemently disagrees with Brigham Young concerning the Adam God doctrine. "But behold ye, there were some that did not believe the sayings of the Prophet Brigham. Even our beloved brother Orson Pratt told me that he did not believe it. He said he could prove by the scriptures that it was not correct. I felt sorry to hear Professor Orson Pratt say that" (Diary of Joseph Lee Robinson, pp. 102-03 as quoted in Joseph Musser, Michael Our Father and Our God, p. 23 ftnt.). (See 1852a cross-dates.) (b) Brigham Young speaks on those with a Black skin, the descendants of Cain, and the priesthood. "When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood...and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 143). (See 1851, 1866a, 1945c, 1954b, 1958, 1978b, c, 1979a, b.) (c) Orson Hyde, one of the LDS Twelve Apostles, explains the marriage at Cana found in the biblical account of John 2: "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana.... Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was.... We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified....[B]efore the Savior died, he looked upon his own natural children, as we look upon ours;..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 82; see 1853, 1963a). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) 1855 (a) New First Vision information given by Brigham Young. "The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven.... But he did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun.,...and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 171). (See 1820 cross-dates.) (b) Brigham Young preaches a sermon on polygamy in which he explains, "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned; and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given, and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266). (See 1838c cross-dates.) 1856 (a) Brigham Young teaches doctrine of Blood Atonement. "There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins,.... It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet man can commit sins which it can never remit" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 53-54). (See 1845, 1977a.) (b) Orson Pratt's disagreement with Brigham Young on Adam-God continues. "A very serious conversation took place between President B. Young and Orson Pratt upon doctrine. O.P. was directly opposed to the President's view and very freely expressed his entire disbelief in them after being told by the President that things were so and so in the name of the Lord. He was firm in the position that the President's word in the name of the Lord, was not the word of the Lord to him" (History of Samuel W. Richards, p. 15; as quoted in Musser, Michael Our Father and Our God, p. 23 ftnt.). (See 1852a cross dates.) (c) October 12, in a Sunday afternoon address in the Bowery on Temple Square, Mormon Apostle Heber C. Kimball declares, "You might as well deny 'Mormonism,' and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives. Let the Presidency of this Church, and the Twelve Apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 203; see 1843b, 1866c, 1879b). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) 1857 (a) Heber C. Kimball, First Counselor to Brigham Young in the First Presidency exclaims, "Wake Up, Ye Elders of Israel, and live to God and none else; and learn to do as you are told, both old and young: learn to do as you are told for the future. And when you are taking a position, if you do not know that you are right, do not take it - I mean independently. But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 32). (See 1945b.) (b) Mountain Meadows Massacre. Of the more than 100 people in the Fancher party passing through Utah, only a few of the children are not slaughtered. (See 1877a.) 1860 Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints officially organized in Amboy, Iowa. This is the largest of the many groups into which Joseph Smith's church has splinterd. Joseph Smith III is called as their Prophet (Shields, Divergent Paths of the Restoration, p. 65). 1866 (a) Brigham Young reiterates his stance on the Blacks gaining the Priesthood. "And when all the rest of the children have received their blessing in the Holy Priesthood, then that curse shall be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 272). (See 1854b cross-dates.) (b) Brigham Young states, "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 269; see 1852b, 1855b). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) (c) Heber C. Kimball exclaims, "It would be as easy for the United States to build a tower to remove the sun, as to remove polygamy, or the church and kingdom of God" (Millenial Star, Vol. 28, p. 190; see 1843b, 1856c, 1879b). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) 1867 Brigham Young publicly ridicules Orson Pratt's concept of God. "They appear to be bound in their capacity for acquiring knowledge, as Brother Orson Pratt, has in theory, bound the capacity of God. According to his theory, God can progress no further in knowledge and power; but the God that I serve is progressing eternally, and so are his children" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 286). 1870 Brigham Young explains one of the purposes of the sun. "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271). 1871 Orson Pratt, in General Conference, discusses Joseph Smith's Independence Temple revelation. "Here then we see a prediction, and we believe it. Yes! The Latter-day Saints have as firm faith and rely upon this promise as much as they rely upon the promise of forgiveness of sins...a temple will be reared on the spot that has been selected, and the corner-stone of which has been laid, in the generation when this revelation was given; we just as much expect this as we expect the sun to rise in the morning...But says the objector, 'thirty nine years have passed away.' What of that? The generation has not passed away; all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 275). (See 1832b, 1996b.) 1873 Despite opposition, Brigham Young continues to teach the Adam-God doctrine. "How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me - namely that Adam is our Father and God -.... He was the first man on the earth and its framer and maker....he said, 'I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation....I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh...'" (Deseret News, June 14, 1873; see Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, p. 175, for photo-mechanical reproduction). (See 1852a cross-dates.) 1875 Orson Pratt's seniority as one of the Twelve Apostles is stripped from him by Brigham Young. Pratt would have been third prophet had he retained his status (Deseret News Church Almanac, 1979, p. 104). (See 1842b, 1843a.) 1876 First edition of Doctrine & Covenants without revelation prescribing monogamous marriage is published. Section 132 (current editions) which authorizes polygamy is added (Temple Lot Case, p. 309). (See 1838c cross-dates.) 1877 (a) March 23, John D. Lee is executed for his part in the Mountain Meadows Massacre (Confessions of John D. Lee, p. 383) (See 1857b.) (b) St. George, Utah, temple dedicated. (c) Brigham Young dies. 1879 (a) New First Vision information given by John Taylor, who will become the third prophet. "None of them was right, just as it was when the Prophet Joseph asked the angel which of the sects was right that he might join it. The answer was that none of them are right....the angel merely told him to join none of them that none of them were right" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 20, p. 167; emphasis added). (See 1820 cross-dates.) (b) Mormon Apostle George Q. Cannon declares, "If plural marriage be divine, as the Latter-day Saints say it is, no power on earth can suppress it, unless you crush and destroy the entire people." At the October General Conference Apostle Franklin D. Richards declares, "...the government has determined that polygamy shall be abolished, but the government of heaven had previously determined that polygamy should be established..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 20, pp. 276, 314; see 1843b, 1856c, 1866c). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) 1880 John Taylor becomes third Mormon prophet. 1884 Logan, Utah, temple is dedicated. 1887 (a) The Edmunds-Tucker Act is passed in Congress. This legislation "sought to facilitate conviction of polygamists by permitting exceptions to standard judicial and law enforcement procedures" (B.Y.U. Studies, Vol. 26, No. 4, p. 117; see 1890a). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) (b) Mormon prophet John Taylor dies. 1888 Manti, Utah, temple is dedicated. 1889 Wilford Woodruff becomes fourth Mormon prophet. 1890 (a) "The final blow for Mormon polygamy was the Supreme Court's decision in The Late Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ vs. United States which upheld the seizure of Church holdings by the federal government" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol. 21, No. 1, p. 120; see 1887, 1890b). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) (b) Wilford Woodruff issues the Manifesto in which it is stated, "We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice ... Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages ... I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws ... And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land" (Doctrine &Covenants, "Official Declaration-1", 1981 ed., p. 291-92). Following Joseph Smith's earlier example (see 1835c, 1838c, 1844b), Church leaders continued to practice polygamy for many years after the manifesto, while lying about the subject to the government, the public and even church members (see 1898b, 1906). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) 1893 Salt Lake City, Utah, temple dedicated. 1895 December 9, "At a special conference held at Colonia Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico, the settlement of the Saints in Mexico were organized as the Juarez Stake of Zion by Apostles Francis M. Lyman and George Teasdale; Anthony W. Ivins, president; Henry Eyring and Helaman Pratt, counselors" (Jenson, Andrew, Church Chronology, 1899 ed., p. 210). This community is known for its polygamist activity. 1898 (a) Wilford Woodruff dies. Lorenzo Snow becomes fifth Mormon prophet. (b) October 17, "The Presbyterian synod of Utah, at its closing session in Ogden, passed resolutions declaring that polygamy was still practiced by the 'Mormons' in Utah" (Jenson, Church Chronology; see 1890b, 1906). (See also 1838c cross-dates.) 1901 Lorenzo Snow dies. Joseph F. Smith becomes sixth Mormon prophet. 1903 Mormon historian and member of the First Council of the Seventy, B.H. Roberts declares, "Some of the sectarian ministers are saying that we 'Mormons' are ashamed of the doctrine announced by President Brigham Young to the effect that Adam will thus be the God of this world. No, friends, it is not that we are ashamed of that doctrine" (The Mormon Doctrine of Deity, 1903 ed., p. 42). (See 1852a cross-dates.) 1906 The Congressional Committee on Privileges and Elections issues report on testimony taken in the Reed Smoot Case, stating, "A sufficient number of specific instances of the taking of plural wives since the Manifesto of 1890, so called, have been shown by the testimony as having taken place among Officials of the Mormon Church to demonstrate the fact that the leaders in this church, the first presidency and the twelve apostles, connive at the practice of taking plural wives, and have done so ever since the Manifesto was issued..." (Reed Smoot Case, Vol. 4, p. 476). There followed a long list of cases, including apostles of the church, of plural marriages contracted after the Manifesto. (See 1838c cross-dates, esp. 1890b, 1898b.) 1912 (a) In a letter to Central States Mission President Samuel O. Benion, dated February 20, 1912, the First Presidency officially renounces Brigham Young's Adam-God doctrine. Restricting their response to only one of the many places where Young taught the doctrine, they attempt to explain the whole thing away as a misunderstanding or misinterpretation (Messages of the First Presidency, Vol. 4, pp. 266-67). (See 1852a cross-dates.) (b) Headlines on the December 29 New York Times concerning Joseph Smith's "Book of Abraham" (found in the Mormon scripture The Pearl of Great Price) reads, "Sacred Books Claimed to Have Been Given Divinely to the First Prophet Are Shown to be Taken from Old Egyptian Originals, Their Translation Being a Work of Imagination." (See 1835d cross-dates.) 1916 The Father and the Son: A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency and the Twelve, standardizes Mormon usage of terms Elohim and Jehovah, applying them to God the Father and God the Son, respectively. Previously, Jehovah had been used to refer to God the Father by Brigham Young, John Taylor and others. Bulk of the exposition given to explaining why the Son can be called the Father. 1918 Joseph F. Smith dies. Heber J. Grant becomes seventh Mormon prophet. 1921 The Lectures on Faith, which had been regarded and published as scripture, are decanonized by removing them from the Doctrine &Covenants (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol. 20, No. 3, p. 71). (See 1834a, 1835c, 1842a.) 1922 B.H. Roberts performs study on The Book of Mormon< Mormonism does not even fulfill their own requirements for being a true Christian church. 17 POINTS OF THE TRUE CHURCH The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints prints a small card that is normally entitled "Seventeen points of the True Church." At times the front of the card will read "Does it meet the Test?" Whatever the form, many Christians have been handed this card. What of its claims? Are the 17 listed points true? Do the claims made by the LDS Church stand the test of the Bible? This article will examine, briefly, the claims made by this little card. It is not intended to be an in-depth doctrinal treatise on each point, as the card hardly attempts to be, either. Instead, it is meant to give the Christian reader more background into just what the Mormon Church is claiming, and how this does not in any way reflect the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles as recorded in the Word of God, the Bible. We will follow the outline of the card itself. (Some cards list more or fewer points. This card seems to be the most prevalent). #1. Christ organized the Church. Ephesians 4:11-14. This is true. However, we might ask our Mormon friends, since Ephesians 4:11 lists evangelists and pastors, where are these "offices" in the LDS Church? Since "apostles" in the original Greek language refers simply to a "sent one," does it not make sense to understand this to refer to missionaries, the very ones who, like Paul and Apollos, spread the word concerning Christ throughout the entire known world? Should we not also point out that the very same book here quoted (Ephesians) also says in chapter 3, verse 21, that God would receive glory "in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end"? How does this square with the Mormon teaching that the Church of Jesus Christ disappeared after only a few years? #2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:23. Exactly how Ephesians 5:23 relates to this is difficult to say. At any rate, the point normally made by Mormons in regard to this is that the name on the letterhead of your church must include the phrase "Jesus Christ." Just how official names are involved in saving someone is again not clear. Biblically, the Church is called the Church of Christ. It is also called the Body of Christ. Does that mean we should make sure the phrase "Body of Christ" is on our letterheads, also? Or is it more consistent to see that the Church as it is expressed universally is the Church of Christ, and the local assembly takes the name that would best describe it - such as the Church at Rome, the Church of the Thessalonians, the Church at Philippi? The Bible nowhere commands us to attach a specific name to our local congregation. Christians are Christians whether they worship in the same building and in the exact same manner or not. #3. The true church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets. Ephesians 2:19-20. This, again, is true, as far as it goes. Unfortunately, the LDS Church takes it too far. The Mormons take this to mean that the true church must have official positions entitled "Apostle" and "Prophet," which, of course, they have. This is not what Ephesians 2:19-20 teaches. First, the context includes verses 21 and 22, and these must be read also. The text actually says that the church is built on a foundation. Stop there. The word "built" as translated in the King James Version translates the Greek participle epoikodomethentes, which, properly syntaxed is translated "having been built." It is an aorist passive participle. It refers to a past action, one that (in this case) has been completed. To say that today we must continue to build the foundation of apostles and prophets is to misunderstand the text. Next, we would like to point out that the Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the foundation (1 Corinthians 3:10-11). The Church is built upon this foundation, and is continually growing unto an "holy temple in the Lord." The question must be asked, how many times does one lay a foundation? If one is continually laying a foundation, how will the house be built? The answer is obvious. The Mormon Church is still trying to lay a foundation that was laid two thousand years ago. Since this is so, it is obvious to see that in this passage Paul is referring to something other than a continuing office of apostle and Prophet. The phrase "of the apostles and prophets" is in a genitive construction that can easily give the sense that the foundation of the apostles and prophets is Jesus Christ Himself. This would be completely consistent with Paul's use of themelios (foundation) in other letters. Again we see how examining the actual text of the Bible we can avoid errors such as the kind propagated by the Mormon Church. One final thing. In the lists of "offices" in the church (e.g., 1 Corinthians 12:28), the apostles" are placed before the "prophets." Aside from the fact that there were obviously many "prophets" in the Church (rather than the one of the LDS Church), it is clear that the Mormon hierarchy of Prophet then Apostles is backwards, at least Biblically speaking. It is also plain to see that "apostles" (literally, "sent ones") and "prophets" functioned quite differently than the LDS Church believes they did. #4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ's Church. Ephesians 4:11-14. This point overlaps with the discussion given above. We have already pointed out that the organization the Mormon Church has forced upon the Bible is not an accurate understanding of just how the ancient church was organized. As examples of this have already been brought up, we will move on to the next point. #5. The true church must claim divine authority. Hebrews 5:4-10. The Christian Church does claim divine authority, for each and every believer, male or female, is a king and priest unto God (Revelation 1:6). However, again the LDS Church has forced its own theology upon the Scriptures instead of allowing the Bible to be the guide. Mormon leaders claim to have divine authority in that they have the "Melchizedek Priesthood." Younger men are called to the "Aaronic Priesthood," and at age 18 they can received the Melchizedek Priesthood. Though space does not allow a complete discussion of the topic of the priesthoods, it should be pointed out that the Mormon doctrine falls short of the truth at a number of points: 1) It ignores the fact that there is no distinction made between male and female in their relationship with Christ. This is not to say that in the home God does not ordain a certain order, as He obviously does. However, to claim the stupendous things that the Mormon Church does for its "priesthood" and yet deny those privileges to women (and blacks for 148 years) is certainly outside Biblical teaching. 2) It ignores the fact that the Aaronic priesthood was fulfilled and done away with at the cross of Calvary. When Christ died, the veil in the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The function of Aaronic priests, that of making animal sacrifices and, once a year, going through the veil to offer the atonement for the nation, was finished for all time. The intermediacy of a priesthood was done away with because of the immediate access each believer has to the throne of grace through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. To re-establish an organized, intermediate priesthood as the LDS Church has done, when God has done away with it at the cross, is nothing short of blasphemous! Though it is truly amazing to anyone who has studied the New Testament book of Hebrews, Joseph Smith once wrote, "...it is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e., the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus] was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in the future: but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the priesthood ... These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings." (Documentary History of the Church, volume 4, page 211). Again we see the depth of error that can be attained by ignoring the Biblical teachings on a subject. 3) It ignores the Biblical fact that there is but one High Priest (the Mormon Church has many), and only one worthy to hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, that being Jesus Christ (Hebrews 7:24-25). To claim to hold that priesthood is an affront to the person of the Son of God. #6. The true church must have no paid ministry. Isaiah 45:13, 1 Peter 5:2. The reader is asked to examine the two references given to gain yet another example of out-of-context reading. Neither passage has anything to do with paid or unpaid ministers. One has to do with Cyrus, king of Persia, and the other with the motivation of the heart of the minister. Also, note that the sections of the New Testament that directly address this issue are ignored. Paul clearly taught that a minister had the right to pay in return for his work (1 Corinthians 9:1-14). Paul calls it a "right" of the minister to reap material benefit from those who receive spiritual leadership. It might be pointed out that the leadership of the LDS Church in Salt Lake certainly do not live unrewarded. How does this square with their teaching? #7. The true church must baptize by immersion. Matthew 3:13-16. We agree. Again, however, the LDS Church goes beyond what is written and adds to this the ideas that 1) baptism is for remission of sins (when Jesus was baptized, was it for remission of sins? We are forgiven of our sins because of the blood of Christ, not the water of a baptistry (1 Peter 1:18-21), and 2) that the only persons "authorized" to baptize are those who hold the "Aaronic" priesthood. This error has already been discussed in #5 above. #8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Acts 8:14-17. Aside from the fact that it is Holy Spirit, not Holy Ghost, it must be pointed out that again the LDS Church is ignoring the majority witness of Scripture. Laying on of hands for the reception of the Holy Spirit occurs only three times in the New Testament: Acts 8:17 as a sign of unity between the Jewish and Gentile believers, Acts 9:17 as an identification of Saul, and Acts 19:6 where the baptism they had undergone was not Christian baptism but the baptism of John. In the vast majority of cases no mention is made of any special ceremony of laying on of hands being necessary for the Holy Spirit to come upon someone. Laying on of hands does show unity and support of an individual, and as such there is nothing wrong with it. But the Scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit comes into a person's life at the point of conversion (Romans 8:9, Acts 10:44-48), not at some secondary time later on. If this were not so, then Romans 8:9 would be false, as it identifies the Holy Spirit as that which makes a person Christ's (see also Ephesians 1:10-14). #9. The true church must practice divine healing. Mark 3:14-15. One of the gifts of the Spirit is that of healing (1 Corinthians 12:28). Of course, not all have this gift (v. 29). The actual operation of the gift is seen to be a corollary to prayer, as the special gift of touching someone was of apostolic authority, not present today. We have seen many people healed through the power of prayer in the Christian church, as God still is the great physician, and He still works miracles. However, to claim to have God on a string, and have Him in your control so as to be able to heal anyone, is not Biblical. Even the great apostle Paul had to pray that a close friend would not die, as his gift was for particular uses, not personal gain (Philippians 2:25-30, 2 Timothy 4:20). #10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals. John 17:11 and John 20:17. The true church must first teach that there is one true God. The number of passages that teach this is astounding. Just for an example see Deuteronomy 4:35, 39, 6:4, 32:39, 1 Chronicles 16:25-26, 2 Samuel 7:22 (1 Chron. 17:20), Psalm 86:10, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6-8, 44:24, 45:5-6, 46:9, John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 and so on and so on. Mormonism teaches that there are many, many Gods, while God denies any such thing (Isaiah 44:8). Hence, Mormonism is off track right from the start. This is the most basic revelation of God, and when one misses it, nothing after that will make any sense. It is true that the Father is not the Son nor is the Son the Father. As far as the above statement reflects this, it is true. However, the Mormon viewpoint is that the Father and Son are two separate and distinct individuals, and hence two separate and distinct gods (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 370)! This is completely contradicted by the Bible, and is based upon the error of polytheism. Mormons cannot understand the Christian doctrine of the Trinity because they reject the Bible's teaching of monotheism (one God). #11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone. Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 1:9-11. Here the Mormons take two references to the fact that Jesus Christ became flesh (John 1:14) and infer from them that God the Father also has a body of flesh and bone. What does God say about this? "You thought that I was just like you; I will reprove you, and state the case in order before your eyes" (Psalm 50:21, NASB). "...for I am God, and not man, the Holy One in the midst of thee..." (Hosea 11:9). "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent" (Numbers 23:19). Instead, Jesus taught that God was spirit (John 4:24). God is not limited to time and space as we are, but rather is eternal (Psalm 90:2), unchanging (Malachi 3:6), and omnipresent (Jeremiah 23:24, 2 Chronicles 6:18). What Mormons need to realize is that the gospel is not that man can become God, but that God became a man. #12. The officers must be called by God. Hebrews 5:4, Exodus 28:1, Exodus 40:13-16. As the Old Testament passages here quoted have little to do with the New Testament Church, we will look at Hebrews 5:4 (which also has little to do with the subject at hand, but it's closer than the others!). First, we agree that the leaders of the church should be called by God, and, in the Christian church, they are. However, again the Latter-day Saints are seen to be adding to what is written. The Mormons interpret this within their framework of "priesthood authority," again leading to error. It might be asked whether their Aaronic priests are called in the same way as was Aaron? A quick look at Exodus chapter 29 and Leviticus chapter 8 will reveal that they certainly are not! #13. The true church must claim revelation from God. Amos 3:7. This position can only be maintained by ignoring what comes after Amos 3:7. Luke 16:16 says "The law and the prophets were until John; since that time the kingdom of God is preached...." The New Testament presents a very different picture. Jesus Christ, the final and complete revelation of God (Hebrews 1:13) has made "further revelation" obsolete and unnecessary. To claim to have such a "revelation" is to say that Jesus really wasn't what and who He said He was, and who the Bible describes Him as being. In actuality, it is the simple fact that Mormonism's teachings cannot be supported from the Bible that drives the leadership to find another source of authority. Everything that has ever claimed to be "further revelation" has failed the test of Scripture, including the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. #14. The true church must be a missionary church. Matthew 28:19-20. We heartily agree at this point, and are forced to ask why it is that the Mormon Church has thrived on taking people from other churches rather than trailblazing into unknown areas, as the Christian Church has done for hundreds of years? #15. The true church must be a restored church. Acts 3:19-20. An examination of the text chosen to represent this claim will show just how weak this argument is. Acts chapter 3 is not in any way discussing the Church. This is seen in two ways. First, verse 21 says that the restitution of all things "was" spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." As Paul points out in Colossians 1:25-27, the mystery of the church was not made known to the past ages and generations (see also 1 Peter 1:10-12), hence this certainly is not talking about the church. Second, the prophets spoke of the restoration of Israel to its own land, and the restoration of the theocracy under David's Son. This is what Peter is discussing in Acts 3. Besides all of this, we must ask when it was that Christ returned, as verse 19 says this would happen at the "restitution of all things." As we pointed out, the true church founded by Christ did not fail (see #2-#4 above). #16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead. 1 Corinthians 15-16 and 29. The Christian church had never practiced baptism for the dead in the sense that the LDS Church wants us to believe. They are forced to take 1 Corinthians 15:29 out of its context and force their own peculiar meaning on it. First, the Bible does not teach that baptism saves anyone (even 1 Peter 3:21, upon close examination, does not do so), hence it certainly would not be needed to "redeem the dead" as Mormons put it. 1 Corinthians 13:29 is found in the "resurrection chapter." The needed clue to its meaning is found in the language in which it was originally written, that being Greek. The word "for" is the Greek term huper. It refers to the taking of someone's place, or to substitution. Baptism "for" the dead is not baptism of a living person in behalf of or for the benefit of a dead person, but rather the immersion of a living person in the place of or into the former position of a now deceased person. It is the baptism of a new convert who takes the place in the church of one who has died. The baptism of a young child, for example, the day after an elderly saint of the Lord has passed away could be viewed as the younger person coming to "fill" the position of the person who has gone home to be with the Lord. This vein of thinking is carried on in the context when Paul says in the next verse, "Why are we also in danger every hour?" (NASB). Being a Christian in those days was a dangerous business. Paul's whole point in the entire passage has to do with the fact that if the dead are not raised (v. 12) there is absolutely no point in bringing new converts into this dangerous position through baptism when there is no future life to promise them, no reward in the future for their faithfulness. Why not just let everyone die off without filling their positions in the church, since, if there is no resurrection, "we are of all men most to be pitied" (v. 19). Belief in baptizing the living to somehow help in saving the dead demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the New Testament teaching concerning the nature, extent, and purpose of salvation. #17. By their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:20. Indeed, but that is not the only test we are given, thankfully. We know people of many religions, and many of them are kind, decent, moral, loving people. Does this mean that they are all right? Of course not. At the same time, we know people of many different religions that are mean, nasty, unloving, hateful, dishonest, etc. and etc. Does that mean those religions are false? No, it doesn't. We know Mormons that fit in both the above categories. Does this prove Mormonism true or false? Neither. Instead, we are given other tests to utilize. The main one is, what do you teach concerning Jesus Christ (e.g., Colossians 2:8-9)? The Mormon Church teaches that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer (see, for example, "Ensign", June 1986, page 25). This is completely untrue, as the Bible says Jesus created all things (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17), which would include Lucifer (Ezekiel 28:13-15). Hence, how can the Creator be the spirit-brother of his creation? Such is nonsense. The fruit of this teaching is falsehood concerning the person of Jesus Christ. Again, even using the test prescribed by the LDS Church, we find Mormonism wanting. This little card ends with, "Why are these things important? HEBREWS 13:8." Yes, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. How different from the Mormon teaching that God was once a man who evolved (or progressed) to Godhood! Much more important than this is the dire warning of the Bible: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8-9). Those are serious words indeed. and the LDS people would do well to heed them. Questions for Mormons: Mormon Prophets 1. Why does the Mormon Church still teach that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple being built in Missouri in his generation (Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5)? 2. Since the time when Brigham Young taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited by people, has the Mormon Church ever found scientific evidence of that to be true (Journal of Discourses, 1870, v.13, p.271)? 3. Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? 4. If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)? 5. Since the Bible’s test to determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets? 6. Since the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct? 7. Since there are several different contradictory accounts of Joseph Smith’s first vision, how did the LDS Church choose the correct one? 8. Can you show me in the Bible the LDS teaching that we must all stand before Joseph Smith on the Day of Judgment? Mormon Scripture 9. Can you show me archeological and historical proof from non-Mormon sources that prove that the peoples and places named in the Book of Mormon are true? 10. If the words “familiar spirit” in Isaiah 29:4 refer to the Book of Mormon, why do familiar spirits always refer to occult practices such as channeling and necromancy everywhere else in the Old Testament? 11. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? 12. Why were the words “white and delightsome” in 2 Nephi 30:6 changed to “pure and delightsome” right on the heels of the Civil Rights campaign for blacks? 13. If God is an exalted man with a body of flesh and bones, why does Alma 18:26-28 and John 4:24 say that God is a spirit? 14. Why did God encourage Abraham & Sarah to lie in Abraham 2:24? Isn’t lying a sin according to the 10 commandments? Why did God tell Abraham and Sarah to lie when 2 Nephi 9:34 condemns liars to hell? 15. Why does the Book of Mormon state that Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:10) when history and the Bible state that he was born outside of Jerusalem, in Bethlehem? 16. If the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth, as Joseph Smith said, why does it contain over 4000 changes from the original 1830 edition? 17. If the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the everlasting gospel”, why does the LDS Church need additional works? 18. If the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the everlasting gospel”, why doesn’t it say anything about so many important teachings such as eternal progression, celestial marriage, the Word of Wisdom, the plurality of Gods, the pre-existence of man, our mother in heaven, baptism for the dead, etc? 19. Why do you baptize for the dead when both Mosiah 3:25 and the Bible state that there is no chance of salvation after death? 20. Since the word grace means a free gift that can’t be earned, why does the Book of Mormon state “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)? 21. Does the LDS Church still regard the Pearl of Great Price as Holy Scripture even after several prominent Egyptologists proved it was an ancient funeral scroll? 22. Why does the Book of Abraham, chapters 4 & 5, contradict Alma 11 in stating that there is more than one God? 23. Why does Doctrine and Covenants 42:18 say there is no forgiveness for a murderer when 3 Nephi 30:2 says there is forgiveness for him? 24. If the Adam-God doctrine isn’t true, how come Doctrine and Covenants 27:11 calls Adam the Ancient of Days which is clearly a title for God in Daniel chapter 7? 25. Why does the Book of Mormon contain extensive, word-for-word quotes from the Bible if the LDS Church is correct in teaching that the Bible has been corrupted? 26. Why do the Bible verses quoted in the Book of Mormon contain the italicized words from the King James Version that were added into the KJV text by the translators in the 16th and 17th centuries? 27. If the Book of Mormon was engraved on gold plates thousands of years ago, why does it read in perfect 1611 King James Version English? Bible Questions 28. If marriage is essential to achieve exaltation, why did Paul say that it is good for a man not to marry (1 Corinthians 7:1)? 29. Since the Word of Wisdom teaches us to abstain from alcohol, why did Paul encourage Timothy to drink wine for his stomach (1 Timothy 5:23)? 30. If obeying the Word of Wisdom - which tells us to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and tobacco - is important for our exaltation, why did Jesus say that there is nothing that can enter a man to make him defiled (Mark 7:15)? 31. If Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament and Elohim is referred to as God in the Old Testament, can you explain Deuteronomy 6:4 to me: “Hear, O Israel: the LORD (Jehovah) our God (Elohim) is one LORD (Jehovah)? 32. Why does the Mormon Church teach that we can be married in heaven when Jesus said in Matthew 22:30 that in the resurrection men neither marry, nor are they given in marriage? 33. How can worthy Mormon males become Gods in the afterlife when God already said that before him no God was formed, nor will there be any Gods formed after him (Isaiah 43:10)? 34. If God had a father who was a God, how come Isaiah 44:8 says that he doesn’t know him? 35. If God was once just a man who progressed to becoming a God, how do you explain Psalm 90:2: “…even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God”? 36. How can God be an exalted man when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man? 37. Why does the Mormon Church teach that Elohim had sexual relations with Mary to produce Jesus when both Matthew and Luke teach she was a virgin (The Seer, January, 1853, p.158)? 38. Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus paid for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane when 1 Peter 2:24 says it was on the cross? 39. Why did Bruce McConkie write that a man may commit a sin so grievous that it will place him beyond the atoning blood of Christ (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p.93) when the Bible says that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7)? 40. Why does the LDS Church teach that man first existed as spirits in heaven when 1 Corinthians 15:46 says that the physical body comes before the spiritual? 41. Since Jesus statement, “Be ye therefore perfect” (Matthew 5:48) is in the present tense, are you perfect right now? Do you expect to be perfect soon? According to Hebrews 10:14, how are we made perfect? 42. Why do Mormons say the sticks in Ezekiel 37 represent the Bible and the Book of Mormon when Ezekiel 37:20-22 tells us that the sticks represent two nations, not two books? 43. Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers when both the first chapter of John and Colossians teach that Jesus is the Creator of all things, including Lucifer? 44. Why do worthy Mormon males hold the Aaronic priesthood since Hebrews 7:11-12 clearly teaches that it was changed and superceded by something better? 45. If your leaders are correct about the complete falling away of the true church on earth, was Jesus in error when he said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18)? General 46. If having a physical body is necessary to become a god, how did Jesus become a god before he had a body? 47. Do you think the LDS Church will reconsider its teachings that the American Indians are descendants of the Jewish race now that DNA evidence has proven that they are actually descendants of the Asian race? 48. If polygamy was officially re-instituted by the Mormon Church, how would your wife feel about you taking another woman? 49. Since the LDS Church teaches that there was a complete apostasy of the true church on earth, does that mean that the 3 living Nephites and the Apostle John went into apostasy also? 50. Why are Mormon Temple ceremonies secret to the public when the Old Testament temple ceremonies were open to public knowledge?

Be on the other side. Through makes this oneness seem a bit faulty. If we look through some glasses to see a word clearer, obviously if we could have see the word then we wouldn't need glasses. But Jesus in this verse is saying ( paraphrasing my understanding) I am your glasses to see the Father. You can argue that THROUGH is a LITERAL word because it means both seeing and gaining faith.

Do the apostles preach the Trinity?

When it comes to Mormonism see our playlist "Dealing with Mormonism, the Religion of Mitt Romney & Utah" with 20 videos at ru-vid.com/group/PL11CD0EE613306BB5. Particularly notice our video "RISE OF THE CULTS: WHERE DID ALL THESE STRANGE AMERICAN RELIGIOUS SECTS COME FROM?" at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HfVTXbFrvh8.html. Question: "What is Mormonism? What do Mormons believe?" Answer: The Mormon religion (Mormonism), whose followers are known as Mormons and Latter-day Saints (LDS), was founded less than two hundred years ago by a man named Joseph Smith. He claimed to have received a personal visit from God the Father and Jesus Christ (Articles of Faith, p. 35) who told him that all churches and their creeds were an abomination (1 Nephi 13:28; Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History 1:18, 19). Joseph Smith then set out to "restore true Christianity" and claimed his church to be the “only true church on earth” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670; 1 Nephi 14:10). The problem with Mormonism is that it contradicts, modifies, and expands on the Bible. Christians do not have a reason to believe that the Bible is untrue or inadequate. To truly believe in and trust God means to believe in His Word, and all Scripture is inspired by God, which means it comes from Him (2 Timothy 3:16). Mormons believe that there are in fact four sources of divinely inspired words, not just one: 1) the Bible “as far as it is translated correctly” (8th Article of Faith). Which verses are considered incorrectly translated is not always made clear. 2) The Book of Mormon, which was “translated” by Smith and published in 1830. Smith claimed it is the “most correct book” on earth and that a person can get closer to God by following its precepts “than by any other book” (History of the Church 4:461). 3) Doctrine and Covenants, containing a collection of modern revelations regarding the “Church of Jesus Christ as it has been restored.” 4) The Pearl of the Great Price, which is considered by Mormons to “clarify” doctrines and teachings that were lost from the Bible (Articles of Faith, p. 182-185) and adds its own information about the earth’s creation. Mormons believe the following about God: He has not always been the Supreme Being of the universe (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321) but attained that status through righteous living and persistent effort (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). They believe God the Father has a “body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22). Brigham Young taught that Adam actually was God and the father of Jesus Christ-although this teaching has been abandoned by modern Mormon leaders. In contrast, Christians know this about God: there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6-8). He always has existed and always will exist (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 90:2; 1 Timothy 1:17). He was not created but is the Creator (Genesis 1; Psalm 24:1; Isaiah 37:16). He is perfect, and no one else is equal to Him (Psalm 86:8; Isaiah 40:25). God the Father is not a man, nor was He ever (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Hosea 11:9). He is Spirit (John 4:24), and Spirit is not made of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39). Mormons believe that there are different levels or kingdoms in the afterlife: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, the telestial kingdom, and outer darkness (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348). Where mankind will end up depends on what they believe and do in this life (2 Nephi 25:23; Articles of Faith, p.79). In contrast, the Bible tells us that after death we go to heaven or hell based on whether or not we had faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. To be absent from our bodies means, as believers, we are with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8). Unbelievers are sent to hell or the place of the dead (Luke 16:22-23). When Jesus comes the second time, we will receive new bodies (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). There will be a new heaven and new earth for believers (Revelation 21:1), and unbelievers will be thrown into an everlasting lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). There is no second chance for redemption after death (Hebrews 9:27). Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-354). Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). Contrary to this, Christians historically have taught that no one can achieve the status of God-only He is holy (1 Samuel 2:2). We can only be made holy in God's sight through faith in Him (1 Corinthians 1:2). Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16), is the only one ever to have lived a sinless life, and now has the highest place of honor in heaven (Hebrews 7:26). Jesus and God are one in essence, Jesus being the only man who existed before physical birth (John 1:1-8; 8:56). Jesus gave Himself to us as a sacrifice, God raised Him from the dead, and one day everyone will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Philippians 2:6-11). Jesus tells us it is impossible to get to heaven by our own works and that only by faith in Him is it possible (Matthew 19:26). We all deserve eternal punishment for our sins, but God's infinite love and grace have allowed us a way out. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Clearly, there is only one way to receive salvation and that is to know God and His Son, Jesus (John 17:3). Receiving salvation is not done by works but by faith (Romans 1:17; 3:28). We can receive this gift no matter who we are or what we have done (Romans 3:22). “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Although Mormons are usually friendly, loving, and kind people, they are deceived by a false religion that distorts the nature of God, the Person of Jesus Christ, and the means of salvation. (Editor’s note: many of the references in our articles on Mormonism are Mormon publications, such as Mormon Doctrine, Articles of Faith, Doctrines of Salvation, History of the Church, Doctrine and Covenants, and so forth. Others are from the Book of Mormon itself, e.g., books such as 1 Nephi, 2 Nephi, and Alma.) Question: "Are Mormons Christians? Are Mormons saved?" Answer: Although Mormons profess to be Christians and say they believe the Word of God, there are many of their beliefs that contradict Christianity. In fact, Mormonism can be referred to as a cult, which can be defined as “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth.” Mormons say they are Christians, but because they reject foundational truths from the God’s Word, they are not. Joseph Smith, who referred to himself as “The Prophet,” founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the mid-1800s. He claimed to have seen a vision of God the Father and God the Son, in which they denounced modern Christianity and appointed Smith to reveal and restore “true” Christianity (Articles of Faith, p. 182-185). Three years later, Smith alleged that the angel Moroni told him about some golden plates on which the Book of Mormon was written. In spite of Smith’s questionable background and proclivity toward bending the truth (see The Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism, New York, 1861; and Mormonism Unveiled, Painesville, Ohio, 1834), many believed Smith, and a new “religion” was born. Today, the members of the Mormon Church number in the millions. The Book of Mormon is purported to be a new revelation, one that Mormons say is part of the new covenant to Israel and “another witness” to the truth of the Bible (History of the Church 4:461, 8th Article of Faith). Aside from the many theological conflicts with the Bible and historical and archeological fact, the writing of the Book of Mormon was shrouded in mystery and false claims. For example, Joseph Smith and his associates asserted that one Professor Charles Anthony of Columbia University verified the Egyptian characters on the golden plates. However, this same professor wrote a rebuttal letter soon after, saying that he never did any such thing and had, in fact, found the characters to be a hoax. In addition, many verses in the Mormon scriptures have been changed over the years, as the church leaders attempt to cover up something embarrassing in their past and to defend themselves against criticism. These facts alone are enough to cast much doubt on the veracity of the Book of Mormon. One of the many areas in which Mormons fall short of saving faith is their belief that God is merely an exalted man who earned his position by good works (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). This directly contradicts the Bible, which states that God has existed in His position as God of the universe from eternity past (Revelation 1:8; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:15-16; Psalm 102:24-27). God was never a man (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Hosea 11:9) and is the holy and powerful Creator of all things (Genesis 1; Psalm 24:1; Isaiah 37:16). Mormons also believe that they themselves can attain the status of gods in the afterlife through their works here on earth (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-354). However, no man can ever become like God (1 Samuel 2:2; Isaiah 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22), despite what the serpent told Eve in the garden (Genesis 3:5). Mormons also believe that Jesus was a god, but not God Himself (Mormon Doctrine, p. 547; Articles of Faith, p. 35; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372). It is essential to Christian faith that Jesus is one with God and that He is God’s only begotten Son who became flesh (John 1:1, 14; John 3:16). Only Jesus’ oneness with God would have allowed Him to live a sinless, blameless life (Hebrews 7:26). And only Jesus Christ was able to pay the price for our sins by His death on the cross (Romans 4:25; Acts 4:12). Those who follow the Mormon faith also believe that they can attain heaven through works (Doctrine and Covenants 58:42-43; 2 Nephi 9:23-24; Alma 34:30-35; Articles of Faith, p.92). While they claim faith in Christ, they also rely on following the commandments of the Mormon Church (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p 188; Mormon Doctrine, p. 670) and practicing good works (2 Nephi 25:23; Alma 11:37) in order to achieve salvation. The Bible is very clear on this point, stating that good works can never earn the way to heaven (Romans 11:6; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5) and that faith in Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation (John 10:9; 11:25; 14:6; Acts 4:12). Salvation by grace is incompatible with salvation by human works (Romans 11:6). Sadly, many in the Mormon Church are unaware of the religion’s shady past, amended scriptures, and even the full doctrine of their church. Many Mormons who have discovered these things have left the church and come to a true saving faith in Jesus Christ. As Christians, we must treat Mormons with love and understand that they are among those deceived by Satan himself (1 Peter 5:8). Satan’s goal is to distort the truth, produce false assurance of salvation, and extend a deceptive hope of godhood (2 Corinthians 4:4). Question: "How should Christians view the Book of Mormon?" Answer: When Mormon missionaries (properly called Latter Day Saints or simply "LDS") come to your door, they will often offer a free copy of the Book of Mormon and tell you about its author, Joseph Smith. Smith, they will say, translated the Book of Mormon from golden plates he dug up in a hill in New York in the early 1800s. This is supposed to confirm his calling from God as the new prophet on the earth in these latter days. Further, they will tell you that the Holy Ghost will confirm the truth of the Book of Mormon by producing good feelings in you. Next will come the invitation to "read the Book of Mormon, pray, and ask God to show you it is true." Of course you must do this with sincerity, or it won't work. Before you fall to your knees, there are some things you need to know that they are not telling you (and won't unless you ask). The first concerns many LDS beliefs that separate them from historical, orthodox Christianity. These are not found in the Book of Mormon. In fact, there is really very little in that book that is doctrinally disagreeable to orthodox Christians. The real meat of Mormonism is found in their other scriptures, The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price. These books, however, Mormons do not hand out at the door-and for good reason. If people knew up front what they were really going to be asked to believe (things such as God once being a man, denial of the Trinity, Satan being Jesus' brother, pre-existence of souls, etc.), they may not be quite so willing to put aside their skepticism. The second thing to realize is that in accepting the Book of Mormon, one is, in fact, accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet. So what about this test of a prophet? Isn't it legitimate to "give this question up to God?" No, it isn't. This is because God has already revealed His test for would-be prophets, and it has nothing to do with prayer or feelings, and God has no obligation to answer prayers that He has already answered! We do not have to ask God whether or not we should rob a bank or murder someone. Rather, James 1:5 says, "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God . . . and it will be given to him." Wisdom is applied knowledge, not lack of it. God never tells us to pray about what is true. When we want to know how tall a wall is, we don't pray about it; we get something that we know is true (a ruler) and compare it to the wall. The Bible, God's Word, is true. That is our measuring stick for truth. See Acts 17:11, for example, which describes a group of people who were considered noble because when Paul came to them with the Christian message they "received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so." Feelings are unreliable because they are subjective, easy to produce, and are not meant to discover facts but to tell us how we feel about facts. Psychological persuasion techniques, intensity, eye contact, or mere desire can produce feelings that feel real because they are real! But real feelings are still just letting us know how we are reacting to something, not the truthfulness of that thing. The Mormon missionary handbook specifically details these techniques, and missionaries go through training on how to persuade people before they ever leave the house. What are the biblical tests for a prophet? They are in God's Word: Deuteronomy 18:21-22 says, "You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Did Joseph Smith ever claim "in the name of the LORD" that something would happen when it did not? Yes-many times, in fact. Joseph Smith prophesied that New York would be destroyed if they rejected the [Mormon] gospel (D&C 84:114-115). He also prophesied that the rebellion of South Carolina and the War Between the States would result in war being poured out upon all nations; slaves would revolt; the inhabitants of the earth would mourn; famine, plague, earthquake, thunder, lightning, and a full end of all nations would result (D&C 87). Oddly, this prophecy is the one most often cited by Mormons to prove Joseph Smith's prophetic power! Further, Deuteronomy 13:1-3 says that "if a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul." Did Joseph Smith lead his followers to other gods? Yes. Joseph Smith was a polytheist. History of the Church 6:474 records Smith stating, "I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods." Joseph Smith declared that "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345). This is clearly not the biblical God. Galatians 1:6-7 says that people may be "turning to a different gospel-which is really no gospel at all . . . trying to pervert the gospel of Christ." And Paul pronounced a curse upon them for doing so. In Romans 1:16 Paul tells us that the gospel is "the power of God unto salvation"-that's pretty important. Did Joseph Smith teach a "different gospel"? Yes. Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon contains the "fullness of the gospel." The Book of Mormon says so itself in its introduction (see also Doctrines and Covenants 20:9; 27:5; 42:12; and 135:3). So what is the gospel according to Mormonism? It's a tough question for many LDS to answer. According to Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie, author of the book Mormon Doctrine, the gospel is "the plan of salvation [that] embraces all of the laws, principles, doctrines, rites, ordinances, acts, powers, authorities, and keys necessary to save and exalt men." In other words, the whole of Mormon theology. In the Mormon gospel we see belief + repentance + baptism + laying on of hands + temple work + mission work + church ministry + tithing + ceasing from sin + abstaining from the use of intoxicants and strong drinks and tobacco and caffeine + confessing Joseph Smith as Prophet + temple marriage + baptism for the dead + genealogy research . . . the list could go on and on and on. Only upon completion of all these things may Mormons attain to the third and highest level of heaven, thus achieving the ultimate goal of the Mormon gospel-godhood. (see McConkie, Mormon Doctrine 116-117; Book of Mormon [3 Nephi 27:13-21]; Doctrines of Salvation 1:268; 18:213; The 4th Article of Faith; Smith, Gospel Doctrine pg. 107; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 3:93; 3:247; 9:312; Gospel Principles 290; Doctrine and Covenants 39:5-6; 132:19-20). In essence, Christ's death means nothing more to a Mormon than the gaining of the ability to be resurrected so that his works may be judged. While we cannot judge another person's motives, we can and must judge what a person does or says. Joseph Smith, and hence the Book of Mormon, fails the twin tests of Deuteronomy 13 and 18. God takes false prophets very seriously. Deuteronomy 13:1-3 says, "That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God...; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you." Deuteronomy 18:19-21 says, "If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death..." And Galatians 1:8-9 says, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" The gospel is God's power to bring us to Him. He will not stand for those who pervert it. He has given us the ability and the responsibility to discern whether or not the gospel is being tampered with. We must carefully investigate the claims of the LDS if we are to follow what God has commanded. In fact, we are invited to judge by Mormons themselves: "Convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any" (LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.15). (Editor’s note: many of the references in our articles on Mormonism are Mormon publications, such as Mormon Doctrine, Articles of Faith, Doctrines of Salvation, History of the Church, Doctrine and Covenants, and so forth. Others are from the Book of Mormon itself, e.g., books such as 1 Nephi, 2 Nephi, and Alma.) The reason Mormonism is not Christian is that it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Here is a basic list of what true Christianity teaches as essential doctrine according to the Bible. There is only one God in all existence (Exodus 20:1-4, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 8, 45:5). Jesus is divine (John 1:1, 14, 8:24, Col. 2:9). Forgiveness of sins is by grace alone without works (Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 3:28, 4:1-5). Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21, Luke 24:39). The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4). Mormonism denies that there is only one God in all existence and also denies the forgiveness of sins alone in Christ alone. Therefore, it is outside Christianity. It is not a Christian religion. Mormonism teaches . . . Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation who was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the Biblical teaching that He is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator of all (John 1:3, Col. 1:16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that He is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the Biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 8, 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is (See also, false trinity). Because Mormonism denies the Biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the Gospel is, Mormonism is not Christian. What else does Mormonism teach? Mormon theology teaches that God is only one of countless gods, He used to be a man on another planet, He became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world, and He brought one of His wives to this world with whom He produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first spirit child to be born was Jesus. Second (though this is disputed among Mormons) was Satan, and then we all followed. But, the Bible says that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 8, 45:5) and that God has been God eternally (Psalm 90:2)--which means He was never a man on another planet. Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses--there is a mother goddess in Mormonism), the idea that Jesus is the product of a god and goddess couple is rejected. The Bible tells us that Jesus--The Jesus of Mormonism--is definitely not the same Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't exist. Mormonism says Jesus' Sacrifice is not enough Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God, that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness. Consider the late James Talmage, an LDS apostle who said, "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil," (Articles of Faith, p. 432), and "Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through obedience," (Articles of Faith, p. 81). This clearly contradicts the Biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 3:28, 5:1, 6:23, Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of becoming saved (Rom. 4:1-5) but a result of them (James 2:14-18). To further confuse the matter, Mormonism states that salvation is twofold. It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins--not universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone (2 Nephi 25:23, Moroni 10:32), the Bible does teach it is by faith alone (Rom. 3:28, 4:1-5). Both cannot be true. Mormonism and the Bible In order to justify its aberrant theology, Mormonism has undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible. The 8th Article of Faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn't trustworthy. This allows them to say and teach whatever they want even when it contradicts Scripture. Conclusion Mormonism is not Christian because it denies that there is only one God, denies the true Gospel, adds works to salvation, denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator, distorts the Biblical teaching of the atonement, undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible, says that God used to be a man who came from another planet and we can become gods, and there is a goddess mother in heaven, etc. CARM does not deny that Mormons are decent helpful people and that they do many good things. But that isn't what makes someone Christian--nor does putting "Jesus Christ" in your title make you Christian if you deny who Jesus really is. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (NKJV) Notice that Jesus condemns those who combine their faith with their works in order to be saved. If you doubt that, see also Luke 18:9-14 where Jesus teaches the same thing again. Becoming a Christian does not mean belonging to a church, doing good things, or simply believing in a god from another planet. Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, received the True Jesus--not the brother of the devil, not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism. Becoming a Christian means believing the Gospel of Christ, who is God in flesh, 2nd person of the Trinity, who was sent by the Father, bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), died, was buried and rose again (1 Cor. 15:1-4). You must trust Jesus. Believe what He did. Put your faith in Him. Mormonism is false and cannot save anyone. Titus 1:9-16