Is this really the best we can expect for £3000 now? The 2023 Giant Propel Advanced 2 Aero Road Bike 

I’ve been trying to get more details on this. The new model is a bit different. It looks like the local shop has to choose to fulfil the order and has a tight time schedule to accept the order. I do wonder how it works if the bike gets discounted. I’m sure creases will iron out.

@@charlesmansplaining sounds like a challenge

@@charlesmansplaining Not sure a 10-year old would be able to cut a steering tube down...... ;)

@@charlesmansplaining Assembly is easy, quality control is another. Most people cant check bearing free play (especially gcn) They can't torque all the cap screws, can't check or align derailleur hangers etc

@@charlesmansplaining I suppose I'm also looking at it from a warranty point of view too. Eg if I cut my own steerer it is likely to void it. Use an official giant dealer with that after service care and you'll be OK in that aspect. But you're right in term of actually assembling the final bits. I'd be happy building it myself, not sure the average Joe would though.

True, although the new falath is simply too heavy. Might be worth waiting for the new Vanyar that I hear is being designed atm.

Late to the game but unlike wheels, UCI certification on frames has nothing to do with quality or safety. It simply means that the frames dimensions are conforming to the UCI regulations to save time and avoid doubt in a race commissaire's mind. See UCI regulations.

@@sylvainmichaud2262 ofc yeah, but you can still have problems if you want to enter a uci race without a certified frame But also, the new falath is just shit

Oh. What is it?

@@Mapdec for advanced 2 in ml size is listed as around 8.74kg or something

Most of that excess weight must be the wheels and tyres?

Oh boy were you wrong

True. Some large cross section aero bikes have gone slack angles to get stability back.

I didn’t look too closely. I can’t get excited about off the shelf bikes at that price. Custom build is the way to go for the ultimate bike, I can’t imagine anyone lusting after a Propel in that price bracket.

Cool. I really think these will be in the sale very soon too.

Ah. Old Skool strength training. Heavy wheels and slow cadence hills.

Thanks Eddy. A kilo is a lot to find in upgrades.

Kind of comparing 2 different tiers of bike here regarding the weight, this is the Advanced range and you've bought the TCR in the Advanced Pro range. Of course there will be weight savings..... If weight was the issue and you were dead set on a Propel, should maybe have looked at the Propel Advanced Pro range. PS. Aero trumps weight in most situations ;)

@@ssbagley The point of this video is what's the best value you can get for £3000.I'm aware the pro propels will be a bit lighter but they are all north of £5000. I already own a propel so know all about aero versus lightweight

@@ssbagley Yeah but if you are honest the aero gains of the Propel over the TCR are likely overstated and minimal, doubt with a rider on board you would notice any difference.

@@gregmorrison7320 yeah I agree, most riders maybe wouldn't notice, but unfortunately I do. I have 4 bikes with the propel being the heaviest, however it's by far the easiest to race on. Holding speeds of 25-30mph is sooo much easier than on my TCR and other bikes.

For sure. Hundreds of options. Do any of those enable a better sub £3k build?

Thank you.

The old one is ugly.

Strength building wheels… look out for the first brand to use that for marketing.

Yes. It’s almost like they make more money on the parts they don’t make than the part they do.

Yeah to off load an old bike you really have to almost give them away, it's at the point where it makes if more worthwhile to just keep it, I have several that I have kept after not wanting to give them away and glad that I have kept them in the long run.

My guess would be same silhouette (obviously), some tweaks on tube profiles, and adopting propel's cockpit integration

@@kitpandikit I'm curious to see if it'll be an Aethos type bike. Ride quality aside, I don't see why anyone would pick the TCR how it is now over the new Propel 🤷🏽‍♂️

@@kpizzle1985 Yeah a couple of ticks for the TCR for the easier head set maintenance and the compact frame design, it has its fans.

E-bike, hairdresser tools by default and inbuilt coffee-machine.

F12 😳

@@Mapdec A MAMIL's bike lol , will probably ride it once and hang it on the wall being that its too expensive

I have. Nobody watches them 😥

@@Mapdec send mr the link I will watch and share with others

@@Mapdecplease send me the link I will watch it

Thanks Benno. I think I had the GH5 in picture rather than movie mode. I’ll get there.

@@Mapdec No worries, usable shot still! But if you have an artificial source lighting your scene, the frame rate of your clip better be off of multiples of the flicker of the light source ;-) Our eyes just detect roughly 16 to 20fps, and light flickers around 50-60 times per sec...

Go to any marketplace for used bikes and sort by rimbrake. Faster, simpler, racier.

Tyres… there is a big subject. My ultimate fave tyres right now are the Pirelli P Zero. I also like the Schwalbe Pro 1. Vitoria Corsa are fast, but they seem to damage easily. Conti GP5000 don’t really live up to the hype of their predecessor. The side walls are flakey and they wear fast. Hutchinson Fusion are a great, reasonably priced and all season option.

We did a vid explaining this a while back. It’s just one of those things that needs a more careful eye when buying.

But more trail is almost always associated with less overlap? If the S and XS had the same trail as a M then the reduced front centre would increase the risk of overlap. The wheelbase is within a few mm at the same chainstay so why would this be an issue of overlap? Surely the issue for smaller riders is that this workaround has changed the steering response not caused a toe problem?

Sounds about right. It’s a good upgrade platform. A set of wheels is really all it needs.

Oh. A bit of heft there

Back to the 80´s!!! Rgr

Step away from the ribble, there is only heartache and trouble down that road. Depends on the bike and how you ride.

Crazy

Prices always going up 🙄

Checke R2-bikes, crazy prices there, Sram Force for the same has the 105 di2

Mostly the new one looks significantly better and has a neater stem set up.

Scott Foil Springs to mind first. I think they do a model with Di2 about the same price.

Thanks. Defo don’t go broke! Tips for you. Go as aggressive with your fit as your musculoskeletal system and core strength allows. A good bike is made from the fine detail that hardly anyone notices.

​@@Mapdec I had wonderful opportunity to use friend's 105 Canyon Endurace CF SL for whole '22 season. It fit me perfectly. So I bought 2023 model (just CF without SL) and once I took it for the first ride, I was like "Yesssss! We're home.". But again, what should I train towards? Are GCN ideals way to go? And my personal answer was to train for what I love - more relaxed, but really long rides as frequently, as it gets. And I believe, lots of other riders would need to realise the same think, as they are getting into cycling.

It’s a blur

It seemed like poor/low lighting and or camera setting not set to handle it.

It’s the vodka

Oh. Scott makes some excellent bikes. People forget about them too much. Cube is ok. Some good value bikes, not very exciting.

Tricky. We did a Ti vid a short time back. You might find that useful.

@@Mapdec also you can probably guess I'm looking for more budget options, cause otherwise I'd go with a Ribble or any other decently reliable brand, but they usually start at 2100 quid, which is more money than I ever had on my bank account :D

@@KNURKonesur check out lynskey. I just got a frame for 1500 and bought rival axs for 700

The way they did the aero on the frame makes it look more streamlined. The frame geometry seems weird though.

Umm. I had never heard of them until now. Looks like a bike shop painting up open moulds. Good luck to them.

Aye. Something went a bit mythic here.

@@Mapdec It happens! Still great content, thanks.

2022 model?

@@Mapdec 2023 model, but just been told by Tredz that it won't be available until June

Looks that way

I am sure bikes like this will be on sale soon.

@@Mapdec Giant have just put up the prices of almost all their bikes by a large amount here in Korea. It would be funny if they ended up having to drop them again. 😂 They’ve been progressively putting prices up over the last few years during COVID and the 2023 price increases are just a joke imo! I can’t say I’ll feel pity for any brand that struggles through the next year or so!

In the advanced range not much now, but careful. It a really heavy bike. An SL7 might be a better bet. In the Advanced SL range you could have a LOOK RS Blade the new one for the same money.

@@Mapdec I believe it's around 8.2kg in size S, do you think that is heavy for around 4,500kg? I am also curious to see other (better) options at around 4k

It is not a brand I see very much.

@@Mapdec it comes equipped with full ultegra groupset,the best value aero bike out there

Yeah. it probably is. wow.

That would be interesting thanks.

@@Mapdec How do I send?

@@GNX157 insta, FB, TikTok,

@@Mapdec okay, I don’t use any of those. I’ll send a few to the sales email. Give you a starting point for a video at least. Maybe if someone comes in with a suspected fake chain you can spot it easier and use that for the story. This applies specifically to Shimano 11 speed CN-HG701 model. There may be other fakes, but I’ve only encountered the 701 so far because that’s all I use.

Good shout

Excellent bike 👍

Umm. www.cube.eu/uk-en/cube-agree-c-62-grey-n-black/678050

@@Mapdec well I guess prices in the UK are different. Here that bike I said costs less then 3500€

This I can totally agree on. Sadly those that have, have discover poor choice in tyres and wheels

What is the advantage?

@@comedyman112 saddle to bar drop that allows full glute and quad movement and a low aero position. Also much easier to handle.

Trek Madone, Cannondale System Six,

I don’t think Canyon have an aero bike anywhere near this price.

@@Mapdec evening 👍 they don't but for £800 more you get Ultegra R8000, deep section DT swiss wheels and you get too pretend you're Van Der poel with the same colour scheme!🤣 thanks again for the content 👏

Get the TCR. The propel is a needlessly heavy aero bike of little use to anyone riding slower than 40kph.

@@Mapdec Okay thank you so much! I hope the discount lasts a little longer

@@Mapdec I was also wondering.. the TCR advanced 2 (2022) is on sale for 1899 right now. It has alu wheels but with the savings i could the some Zipp 303s. One thing i don't like is the color tho. It also has a worst saddle and Overdrive tech

@@carloverhamme9322 you can do better than those Zipps.

@@Mapdec What do you suggest? (keeping it in the budget of around 3k in total)

It’s due to arrive mid feb. I will defo have it on the channel.

It’s weird. The last one is like it too. All looks in focus on the camera, then export for edit it is just ever so slightly out

Totally. It is still a ridiculous price. It should be more like £1500

I don't get the logic in that argument. Anyone who has £3k to spend on a bike is likely to have zero need for an "ok 2nd hand car" Bikes can be expensive, but there are always decent options at a person's price point (especially in the used market)

@@mjf1975 you don't get the logic that alot of people have to choose between buying a utilitarian mode of transport like a used car and an expensive toy like a high end bike?

@@jmswilliams70 No I don’t. You don’t HAVE to buy a £3k bike. If you’re looking at a £3k bike you’re likely to already have a car. If you need a car then you wouldn’t be looking at a £3k bike. Quite simple really

@@mjf1975 well since most people don't need and thusly won't buy these expensive bikes where does that leave the bike industry.

Did you see the Dolan series before they got removed?

I haven’t met a customer in the last 3 years asking for rim brakes. It’s totally driven by demand.

@@Mapdec if like me you want to keep one old rib brake bike on the road, alongside more modern stuff, no need to go to a shop. People are offloading their old bikes and wheels on eBay. I just got a NOS frame for 30% of retail, and the likes of merlin still have bits for cheap. Disk for winter, rim for sunny days.

I know. Amazing deals on rim brake stuff. I’m just not interested though. Personally, I like disc brakes. They open up much more wheel and tyre choice. I feel this is a good subject for a video.

@@Mapdec but one nice rib brake bike in the shed for old times sake never hurt anyone... Better if you want to fly with a bike too, not that I do anymore. But I fully appreciate I'm living in legacy land here, and I've fully embraced bigger tyres and disks everywhere else, this is just a sunny day special.

Rim vs disc is a classic engineering trade-off, but as a rider you'll have to decide which side of the trade-off you are (weight, terrain, weather, grip strength, training level, etc.)

I'll hear back when you want a replacement in years to come. You pay £4.5k for the bike, I imagine you want to ride it for more than a few years.

@@cccpkingu @Unbias I'm sure you're right, except on one point. My bike was only 930 USD! Expensive bikes are surely nice but personally, I don't see what I need there. I'm rocking Alivio level 9 speed and still quite capable of taking KOMs.

We did a vid on those a few years back. They are ok, you get what you pay for.

I’d say this bike is a fair reflection of what we would see in cat 3/4

@@Mapdec I see a lot of higher spec'd bikes in Cat3/4 too. But that's what bike insurance is for, right? :)

@@ssbagley if your racing in Ireland you wont get bike insurance touring or riding to work yes but racing no bike insurance .

A fit and flexible rider would probably be more than happy on it all day. However… everyone is different. The geometry could be called aggressive, a ever so slight bias towards TT type geo.

71.3 on a super six? Size Small?

No at size M (54)@@Mapdec

Yes. It is now you mention it.

They're going down the "one bike to rule them all" model.

Cool. Although I do think it’s very optimistic that a handlebar and stem will save you over a kg

@@Mapdec Edit... Was supposed to be under 8 :)

@@votwomax jeszcze korbę zmień na Ultegrę i osie kół na lekkie drążone i będzie waga spoko, ewentualnie jeszcze kierownicę na Pro Vibe Aero carbon.

@@Pablo_Coach Na korbie urwę 20g i nie będzie to ładnie wyglądać z błyszcząca 105. Osie w Propelu są drążone, wiec nie do końca rozumiem. Zintegrowaną kierę już mam (365g), tylko czeka na montaż. Pro vibe jakieś 35-40g jest cięższa ;)

@@votwomax na samej korbkę 69 gram realnego zysku. Co do osi to nie wiedziałem ze już są lekkie w Propelu, ale radzę zważyć i porównać do np Tokena. Co do kokpitu to jeśli jesteś pewny, ze nie będziesz modyfikował pozycji to ok, ja bym wolał Pro Vibe i mostek osobno.

I’ll see what I can do

A bit with Moda

@Mapdec Cycle Works cheers love your content, looking to pay £3500 but trying to get a decent aero bike with min ultegra and carbon wheels , very difficult 😀

I know

Defo not to be celebrated. Good post. Thank you.

Biggest scam ever and im not talking about the price of bikes

@@mabozza85 all about control.All misinformation regarding,climate change,USA and NATO proxy war against Russia comming from our Government and the Mainstream Media....thank the Lord for bike riding to get away from all that!

Felix your next comment didnt get put up on here but i read it on my email notification and i totally agree with you 100% Its all lies. Stay safe🤣🤣

Good rant. That’s where I was hoping this video would go, but prices have got so high it makes the custom build very hard.

@@Mapdec Sorry for it sounding like a rant lol.... I was lucky enough to fit what CRC were offering in the 105 rim package, upgraded the SS to GS and the 11-30 to 11-34 but all is not lost the "spare mech+derailleur" will be coupled with the £70 Sensah Team Pro shifters on their way from China to upgrade my bike on the KICKR for a better close ratio gearbox.... (You must've seen Merlins silly prices last week on Shimano- picked up a "spare" 105 chainset for £99 because I doubt you could even source 2 individual chainrings for that! (Even the "SenicX" chainsets from AliExpress are dearer than £99!!) At risk of repeating myself, some may call it "hoarding" but I'm future proofing my biking, I think big changes are already underway and it's heading to dog eat dog for survival for many companies...??

@@monetaryjack1705 oh god yeah. We bought a ton of stock from Meon last week. Cheaper than trade!

Good point. I came across that recently actually

by at least £1000 !

It has always been like this. A big move sparks a trend. Road bikes have little big innovation left, but I am liking how designs are. Is becoming refined and the practical elements are getting the attention they need.

I’d be keen read that if you have a link. I’m with you on alu, but not steel. Happy to have my mind changed.

@@Mapdec I unfortunately don't have any hard evidence (though I'd love to see some biketubers test it scientifically!), just the words of people I assume are smarter than me. Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly is a huge proponent of steel bikes, and he talks about how their springiness gives you energy back or some such (I'm skeptical; think it's more an improved comfort allowing you to put down more power). Bike Fit Advisor on RU-vid has also talked about how the ergonomic benefits of a custom steel frame will be faster for you than an aero carbon frame. And I haven't seen the video itself, but I watched Waynos Fotos' video commenting on some other biketuber testing a high-end titanium frame against a top aero frame, and the titanium won. Plus Peak Torque's video comparing disc brakes vs rim brakes and finding almost no aero difference, makes me wonder if even Hambini underestimates how turbulent the air is around your frame. He's said that you can have a perfect aerofoil and it'll still perform shit in the eye wall of a hurricane. Do aero frames still have a benefit? yeah probably, but it's too small for us mere mortals to worry about.

Appropriate frame size, fit, geometry is the most important element. At those prices hardly entry level ! ..forget it ….there are no genuine entry level prices - on new) My advice go and find a used Colnago dream / De Rosa Merak frame set in good nick 500 quid, learn to ride rim brakes properly, add your chosen groupset chorus 12 / mech 105 / add decent wheels. A manageable financial proposition. Agree always more important what’s on top of the bike than the other way round.

In crit racing, having light wheels is highly important and yeah when most of the time you are behind many other rides, the frame aero performance starts mattering less.

The Propel or just this 105 version?

@@Mapdec Just the 105 version, and the SRAM Rival version (in red) as well. The cheapest version we gets starts at $5,200 USD. Hopefully they get the cheaper models over here later this year...

Someone else mentioned that too. Looks ok on mobile. Must have knocked something. Thanks for watching.

Only the channels that get paid for reviews will have that. It is tempting to try that 28 day policy. Buy it, review it and return it.

@@Mapdec if u advertise bikes on ur channel I bet day will let u review it and ride it because alot of bike company's are losing alot of money right now because no one is buying bikes anymore or riding them anymore and so there dropping there prices down on their bikes

I don’t want to be accountable to any advertisers or brands. We don’t sell bikes. Completely service only. I like it this way.

Great comment. There are good ones out there. I feel this deserves a whole vid.

@@Mapdec I know because I'm a 5'4" 162 cm man that is very frustrated by bike manufacturers.

My 2021 TCR size small has HORRIBLE toe overlap. It's dangerous in traffic and doing U turns.. i have to always remember

Ummm.

@@Mapdec As a rule of thumb, all 700c road bikes with front centre measurement below ~610mm have toe overlap. I'm approximating the value as shoe size plays a big role as well, but people riding M/54cm and below don't have, usually, large feet.

@@Mapdec as a practical test for you, a bike shop owner, you can simply clip in a shoe in a size 54 frame or smaller to test it. You can also do the math if you're keen on it, google the formula.

Wow. I haven’t actually seen a Merida for a while.

@@Mapdec the 4000 was my first race bike, picked it up for £2050 I think they go for £2250 now with full 105. Loved it so much I got myself the team edition this year

Maybe

Yeah but Giant do PF well, they make their own frames and can build them with a round bottom bracket shell, I don't know of anyone that has problems with a Giant PF.

I think that will soon be forgotten. I doubt it will amount to anything significant

@Mapdec Cycle Works wahoo is about to go under too... better get your trainers while you still can lol

I think we will be ok.

Been training 😘

Lol. Frame is £3000, but somehow a full 105 build is just £3500.

@@Mapdec Like Mrs. THATCHER said MAGIC of the MARKETS!!!!

@@jaredfontaine2002 😂 Maggie in Lycra

@@Mapdec Keep your dirty dreams to yourself Tory Boy 😆

@@Mapdec funnily enough the cervelo is cheaper in the us than the giant. I don’t get any 105 Propels here. All electronic starting at 6k.

Yeah but Giant do PF well, they make their own frames and can build them with a round bottom bracket shell, I don't know of anyone that has problems with a Giant PF.