Is This Silver Worth The Investment?...VERY Surprising! Winchester Silvertip .45 ACP AMMO Test! 

John Moses Browning made the 1911 to shoot hardball ammo and he extended his ghostly hand from beyond the grave to squeeze the bullets and keep them from expanding.

That's crazy results, I would never guessed. Thanks for always giving us honest results!

I would suggest that the faster bullets are "cookie cutting" the clothing and thereby filling the cavity on the bullet making it act like ball ammo. The slower rounds may have more effectively pushed the fibers out of the way, rather than cutting them and thereby allowing the cavity to open properly upon hitting the gel. Examination of the entrance holes in the denim may support or deny this theory.

I've watched hundreds of ballistic gel tests on RU-vid at this point, and I've literally never seen the same hollow point bullet get less expansion from a long barrel than from a short one. This is one of the most interesting tests I've seen, and thanks SO much for doing the 3rd Glock 30 shot (After the second G30 shot, I was thinking "maaan, there's enough room there for him to do another test if he stops now, but I really want to see if the round expands on a good shot from the 30....") I have only a few even theoretical ideas for what could have happened, and these are all wild guesses, I've never heard any of this actually claimed: * - A different rifling pattern stabilized the bullet differently, and the extra spin (or reduction in spin?) aided in expansion * - The specific shape of the cavity caused an air bubble or something to form at the tip only at the 1911's velocity, which disrupted the Venturi effect * - @Zantar45's explanation. All seem equally plausible? I guess? I definitely wouldn't run this ammo, for the same reason I wouldn't use a computer if I saw evidence that Tron was real. If the way something works can only be explained by nonsense that I don't understand and shouldn't be possible, I'm out👋

I can tell you from personal knowledge that my agency used glock 21, with Speer hollow points. They expanded fine. It must the rifling of the Glock or the make up of the ammunition.

Yea, Very wierd that the longer barrel didn't open up for sure. What's really weird for me is my first .45ACP was my first handgun 4.6" barrel, and have never put anything through it that's a HP, just FMJ's. For me shot placement with "The Lords' Caliber" is my main concern.

Great vid Tools!! Thanks.....I think the moral of this story is" If you want to use this ammo get a G30 and call it a day".

This might sound stupid but maybe because it's such a wide projectile, the faster velocity is cavitating the gel as it passes through and is causing a gap between the leading edge of the projectile and the gel. The gel can't resist enough to cause expansion on the faster projectile. Just a guess

A 5" barrel .45ACP is too big for me to carry concealed anyway. So very rare and unusual for a defensive round to perform better out of a shorter barrel. I'll take it.

Thanks for all of your videos. You give some of the best assessments of different ammunitions that I've ever seen. I am curious, where are you located

Maybeso try some phillips screwdriver slugs .

Nice I’ll have to pick some up for my shield and see what it’s got

I wonder if the polygonal rifling of the Glock vs the conventional rifling of the 1911 has something to do with this ???? interesting results

Just when you think you got it all figured out, sometimes you get thrown a curveball. Most of the time it's more speed needed for expansion, this was a strange one. Such a narrow window for good performance from short barrel to the 5" 🤔 Have a good one brother see you on the next one.

Something tells me that you and I would’ve had fun, if we met in my younger days. Thanks for the info. I subscribed a few months ago.

I've got some of the old silvertip in 44. Still a couple of boxes in the stash. They expand out of 44 spl. not full mushroom but they are a wicked projo. Truly evil in mag loads. Old means from the late 80s old.

Odd results. That’s why you test. I’d have never assumed that would happen. Thanks for the Jelly tests.

I’ve seen other tests where .45 expands fine at a given velocity but expands very poorly at higher velocity. Military Arms Channel did one a while ago where that happened.

Seem like the round expands at optimum velocity below 1000 fps

The CCOC from RIA is my creation. You're welcome.

Things that make you go hmmmm. Definitely weird it was awesome in the G30 and horrible in the 1911. Haven’t tried ST in years, but wouldn’t mind getting some for my G36. Thanks for the jelly test Tools!

Bizarre results. I am trying to think what might have caused the bullets fired from the longer barrel at higher velocity to fail to expand. It keeps coming back to bullet construction but that makes no sense since you fired multiple bullets and all of the ones from the 5" barrel failed to expand. So the only thing left is the denim cloth in front of the jello blocks. Maybe the higher velocity somehow causes the material to stuff the bullet holes which prevents expansion. You should try to fire the 5" barrel in the plain jello blocks with no denim cloth. If they expand, that is the answer.

Just for giggles, I would try these Silvertips in a head to head comparison between a G21 and the G30. Just spitballin' here, but maybe the RI action might've had some effect on this outcome?🤔

Well, you had me terribly confused calling the RIA a G17. Maybe that’s why the rounds didn’t expand because they too were confused not knowing if the were .45 or .9mm

As long it Can Stop The WolfMan (Werewolf).

I may be mis-remembering, but seems to me the old Silvertip ammo was also plain brass cased and loaded to maximum pressure/velocity. Not +P, but it was definitely full power stuff. It was good defensive ammo in its day, but I think modern bullets like Federal's HST, Speer's Gold Dot, and Winchester's Ranger-T are better.

Well, short barrels need good ammo, too!

I am so confused by this one....🤔 Since when is speed the enemy of expansion.🤷‍♂ Ironically, I have shot the 180 grain 10mm WInchester Silvertip through a chrono, and they were in the 1240's out of my XDmE 3.8" 10mm, so now I am wondering how they expand.🤷‍♂

I was about to say that this looks like a good option for my 3.3 inch, but the fact that it won't perform out of a longer barrel raises too many questions to trust it.

Well wasn’t that just strange results!!🤷‍♂️. I am thoroughly confused lol. Passed with excellent results with the short barrel but bombed with the long barrel. Great test all the same 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸

There was a cloth plug in the first shot from the 5”. Was there a plug near the second 5” ? Very unusual results.

Golden Sabre .45 acp…185 +p… Please..?

Thats good kinetic energy.

I'm with you, they can't be trusted, So for that reason, I'm out, what are your thoughts on the magazine I mentioned on yesterdays video? Thanks Brian.👍🇺🇸

What is the difference in rifling? What if one has grooved rifling and the other has polygonal rifling?

Uuuuh... Maybe it prefers polygonal rifling?

I’ve seen the 185 grain +p golden sabers get 1,100+ fps out of a 5” barrel…

Nice shot placement tools ! Still good stuff - Ooo yeah .

Heck yeah thank you sir 🇺🇲 love me some 45aarp 😂 that stuff is moving 🔥

Do you think the rate of twist between the 2 could have any effect on the result I have no idea really just spitballing a random idea

Is The full size Rock Island 1911 100% reliable with JHP rounds ???

Happy Father's Day to all the patriot dads out there.

This makes zero sense, but this is why I appreciate so much you actually running these tests. Because making a "best guess" based on past results and expectations won't get us very far.

I never buy any ammo without Tool's recommendations, Tool's is the best ammo testin human on the entire planet!. 🇺🇲👍🏾👍🏻🇺🇲👍🏾👍🏻🇺🇲

As the great Paul Harrell says, "Hollow points are velocity based. The greater the velocity, the greater the expansion... up to a point." I think you just found that point, where the increased velocity resulted in no expansion

That is downright odd. I'd like to see a Glock 21 vs a 3" 1911 just to see if it's the gun or the velocity. If it's the velocity then I'm guessing there's a time window for expansion that the faster round is passing by. Might be nice to see the exact same test except with no cloth.

I bought this stuff for my full size 1911 bedside gun (based off of an old .40sw silver tip video you made). I am definitely making a change. Thanks again for all you do for the gun community and for keeping these companies honest!!

So use the shorter barrel for hunting werewolves 🐺? Odd results but makes me think commander size/4.25in might be a happy medium. Velocity was higher than I expected but recoil didnt look bad at all. I may buy/if on sale for the Commander to check out. Interesting video. Good video!👍🙏

I’ve been around a long, long time and I don’t believe I’ve ever seen faster velocities resulting in less expansion. Strange, very strange.

I think the extra velocity from the 1911 had just enough force to shove the denim down into the hollowpoint cavity whereas the g30 bullett was moving slow enough it was able to shed the denim. Im sure if you had cotton t shirt the 1911 would have done fine.multiple layers of denim IS the absolute worst case scenario. I wouldnt hesitate to use silvertip 45 in the summer... but i would be very cautious when it gets colder and people wear sweat shirts and coats.

To me, this is your most interesting test yet. Unexplainable that the bullets didn’t expand at higher velocity

I have never been a fan of Winchester pistol ammo and this just confirms it like many other tests. Thanks for doing this Tools.

Beautiful gel disruption, I think its the glock polygonal rifling that is the difference we see between the two. Thanks Double T!l!

I have a G 30 so I will be getting some of this stuff

It doesn't matter if its a hollow point or a fmj you get hit with a 45 your having a real bad day

What’s the barrel twist rate? Think maybe one has more causing easier expansion? Love your channel man!! Good work!

I shot 3 145 grain Silver Tips rounds for my.357 magnum, i was very disappointed by the performance out of a 4 inch revolver. They failed to expand, could have just been a bad batch, i don't know. I didn't have gel to shoot in though.I still have one of the rounds.I'm not a fan of new Ammo, When it comes to the .357, i want SJHP from Remington. Anyway, great video, thanks.

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I’m not an expert on physics, but maybe the extra speed from the longer barrel is just enough to cut a section of the denim and cause it to clog, while the shorter barrel is slow enough to tear and allow the hollow point to pass through? Might be a round worth a test through some more true to life medium, like a meat target. Can’t say I’ve ever seen a test like this before, definitely some interesting results!

Is this anothe case of Glock Perfection ??? LOL 😜😜😜

Evan Marshall gave the advice, pick the load that shoots well out of your carry gun, and has a good reputation for performing, and then assume it will fail. Interesting test. Thanks T&T.

Loved the Silver Tips ......

Hey Tools,try that same ammo in your dad’s Colt 3.5.I bet it will do good.

Interesting test. The G30 does it again. I think the failure on the RIA is projectile stabilization from the barrel.

My "guess" is that somewhere between the velocity of those shots is where they get thru the clothing barrier differently enough to make THE difference. We know that clothing often clogs a hollow point and turns it into a common round-nose with regard to its performance in various media. Nobody has studied it in detail but I think there's more to learn on that subject.

different barrel rifling and or twist rate is my best guess, strange but its still a 45 caliber bullet none the less

Yes they can be very good. I had a hi point 45 years ago it would run great with sliver tips and group very well. In that hi point.

Thank you for all the work. Getting my Vector into working order and I appreciate the 45 tests

Thank you for all your tests. I would like to see you conduct all your .45 tests out of one of the popular shorty 3.3 inch barrel pistols: - S&W Shield 45 (1st gen or M.2) or - Springfield XDs (1st gen or Mod 2) Again, both those brands have 3.3 inch barrels. Thanks.

🇦🇺😎👍Happy Monday brother

I have never understood why so many ammo manufacturers seem to treat their test barrel lengths as a proprietary secret. Why do they do that? No reason I can think of...

Great video brother 🫡

Wonder if different rifling as anything to do with it

I have noticed a very interesting trend. A lot if not most of the high-performance rounds you test work far better in the shorter barrels at slower velocities than they are supposed to. Like in this test, the longer barrel at higher velocity fails, but when they are going slower, they work as they should. Why? That is the 50K question. If you look back at a bunch of other rounds in various calibers, you tested previously, this trend seems to be a thing.

Smart bullets werewolf's..sprit walkers ..vampires all different consistency😎

This is bizarre and the exact opposite of what I would expect. I got nuthin'.

I had this stuff 30+ years ago for home defence. I remember shooting it into water jugs with no material in front. ( before FBI came up with clothing barrier test) I may still have that bullet but it did well as I remember. I think the jacket was polished aluminum if memory serves. My gun was an early Springfield 1911 from the 90s.

Maybe the Glock polygonal rifling helped to disrupt the jacketing and aid in the expansion from the G30?

Tools&Targets, I just started reloading 45 ACP in a 230 grain projectile. Well my results are 862 FPS in 6.6 grains of powder in Blazer WSP size brass. In the Winchester WLP brass I got 863 FPS with the same powder and bullet weight. Lastly I got 15 FPS on the extreme spread. Do you think this is a good load for 230 grain target ammo?

The FBI carried Silver Tip in the fateful day of 30 April 1986, the day of the infamous "Miami FBI shooting." The bullets then failed abysmally, that was 38 years ago. Today? Same disappointed results.

Speer Gold Dot 200gr +P JHP Federal HST 124gr Those are my go too’s for .45AARP but then I carried full size pistols… cause I don’t care if I print. Moved away from .45acp due to poor barrier penetration and low capacity for the vast majority of pistols. FN tactical being the exception.

You've should look into this 185gr 9mm from Seismic Ammo. They call it "QuakeMakerTM +M 9mm NATO". There are no videos on YT that actually have a meaningful display of the ammo, pretty much clips of people shooting it, or just talking about it (no jelly, no chrono). It's possibly a good option for suppressors, due to its lower velocity. You'd have a unique test in your library :)

My recollection is that Silvertips sucked in the 1986 Miami FBI shootout too. Unreliable expansion. So I've never trusted them.

Have you ever thought to test any .45 cal. 230gr. and 185gr. Hydra Shoks? I just know you'll be happy with what you find.

Careful man, apparently you have entered Bizarroworld. Where more velocity equals less expansion. So weird!!!

That one is a bit of a conundrum. Normally it 5” barrels that are needed to push the velocity needed for HP expansion in 45 ACP … I can’t recall seeing these results! I will be sticking with my Underwood 230gr +P for now! Thanks for the video

I used to handload 185 jhp (Sierra, I think) in this caliber at around 1100 fps. Nothing broke, no excess pressure signs. The harder I pushed them, the better they expanded. In your test, was the denim placed solidly against the gel? A very perplexing problem.

Good test, Brian! But I will have to say you have the weirdest luck! How in hell do you explain a faster bullet NOT expanding while the slower one does? I'd say it's time for a nastygram to Winchester *demanding* an explanation for your results! As in WTF, people? To be perfectly honest, I don't think I would recommend this ammo to anyone just because of the inconsistency of your results! So strange for something like this to happen. I'll admit, I have never seen anything like it in over 50 years of shooting! Downright bizarre, in fact! It's not likely I'd be trying these anyway, unless Winchester were to sell the bullets as components, which I'm pretty sure they won't. I'll stick with my Speer Gold Dots and Lehigh Xtreme Defender's! Cheers, jc

That didn't make a bit of sense. I've never had very much luck with Silvertips in .45acp. For me it never has penetrated much. This tests almost defies physics. Thanks for shooting multiple shots Tools. Maybe the polygonal rifling helped.

This was very odd indeed. I can think of no explanation for the wide difference between the two. 🤔 As for my own personal experience, I'm an old school caster and hand loader. Haven't bought factory ammo in decades. In the 45 Auto, I cast a 200gr RNFP or a 200gr SWC in what's equal to a 20:1 lead/tin bullet. Hard enough to not lead the bore, but soft enough to expand in hogs, coyote, and feral dogs I encounter on my place out in the woods. I've never used gel blocks, but I get enough critters that don't belong here to shoot. 😅

Good video. Those two pistols have different rifling. I wonder if that changes things. The original Silvertip pistol bullets had an aluminum jackets. They were changed to copper and plated. I think the 32 ACP still has the aluminum jacket.

Wonder if there's a difference in barrel twist making an RPM difference? Just reaching for something. In any event, the unexpanded ones still ended up 0.45" with a flat nose effectively. Lots of mid-size calibers can barely manage that.

Ok short barrel .45 acp defense load. Longer barrels should seek a quality 230 grain jhp.

🤔 I don't see "opposites day" marked on Winchester's calendar. 🤷‍♂️ What's going on 'round here? 😆 Interesting results 💥👍💥

Winchester Silvertip was my all time favorite ammo for 44 magnum. It's been discontinued and is out of stock everywhere. What, if anything, replaced it?

I wonder if it's because the different rifling on the glock? I don't know if that model or current models still have that weird rifling that you can't shoot lead out of, But I remember used to they shed you away from shooting lead ammo. (Cast)??? It's the only explanation I can think of. Thanks for the video

With all respect..... Velocity may not be the only variable affecting bullet performance . Inconsistency in the homogeneity of lead content of the individual bullets might affect performance BUT in this case..... I have to wonder about a difference in barrel rifling ( r/h vs. l/h twist , rate of twist , polygonal rifling vs. whatever else) and how that might affect bullet performance. I'm sure you recognize that there must be a scientific explanation for the difference in performance. Maybe you might compare same rate of twist , same twist orientation ( rh,lh ) same type of twist . Interesting to be sure .

Looks like i found my self defense ammo for my Magnum Research USS1911. Thank you for doing the research

This stuff otta kill a werewolf - Yes sir !

45 super can be fired from HK USP w/o modification. Buffalo bore 185 grain will throw you for a loop when tested in ballistic gel. You will see what i mean.