Is what happened to the Downes Family Arthur's fault? 

Nobody is innocent here. Strauss shouldn't target the desperate, Downes should have thought more of the potential consequences and dangers to himself and his family before taking the loan, Arthur shouldn't have beaten him like he did. Overall though I'd blame Strauss over anyone else.

It's not entirely Arthur's fault, what he pretty much did was speed up the process of driving the Downes into poverty. Thomas Downes was the one who willingly borrowed money from Strauss, so agreed to the terms of paying it back which he failed to comply with. Also, they were on the way to poverty whether Arthur was involved or not, since Thomas was dying of TB and that would have definitely put a strain on their finances.

In my opinion Arthur might have accelerated Downs' journey to the grave but ultimately the result would have been the same. The family was already in financial troubles and tuberculosis would have killed him at some point down the road.

Interesting thing is that you can do the mission without laying a hand on Downes. You can just choose the intimidate option and Arthur won't hit him. He'll throw him to the ground in the cutscene, but no punches will be thrown.

Two things: 1. Edith actually comes to Horseshoe Overlook to confront Strauss after Thomas dies, informing him that Thomas had died and even pays off some of the debt. 2: some NPCs around Valentine will elude to Thomas’ passing. I heard the shopkeeper at Wallace Station mention it and another instance, I heard the doctor in Valentine mention it as well all of this is before Strauss informs Arthur himself that Thomas had passed away.

A minor easter egg, that connects RDR2 and GTA V: the golf club in GTA V were called by the name of Edith Downes. A small detail that perfectly connects and finishes this story

9:58 she knows who Arthur is she even says “oh no, not you” she’s scared Arthur will hurt her family further

Arthur: stop lending money to desperate people who cant pay Strauss: rich people dont need my help, but my work keeps us fed

11:55 I think Charles played a major role in the way Arthur turned out, especially his sacrifice. Charles demonstrated that you can be a loyal friend but still do what’s right, and he rightly called Arthur out on it. Virtue isn’t always convenient and we often don’t understand it. Until you end up in a better place, despite it’s difficultly. In this case Arthur found a better place to camp. Thats certainly one way in which God will test the hearts of men, unbeknownst by them. I’m also proud of Arthur’s humility when speaking with the nun. Rockstar and Obsidian have the best story writing imo.

I've played computer games since 1983. This one is the best game I ever played.

You need to cover the fact of how Arthur could have been an amazing father. Like literally just how much the youngsters meant to him despite of him being a ruthless and honestly a cold killer but he’s a teddy bear once you get to know him. And I know you’re up for the task of him being a father or a father figure.

I think the duality of Arthur between high and low honor is fascinating. Both are just as much who he is as the either, but this projection of what's inside to the outside world (to us, the audience). The honor system isn't come cosmic alignment between good or evil. It's how the character feels about themselves. Ultimately, playing Good Cowboy or Bad Cowboy doesn't make a difference. But the expression of the characters' internal dialog gives us real insight into the characters. Jack's expressions are much more plain to see because there really is no future for him, the story is over. If you think the concept is interesting as I do please cover it because your analysis is very welcome in the community.

I think it was good for the Downes that Arthur came into their lives since without the money he gave them in the last encounter, they wouldn't be able to get anywhere. Even if Arthur hadn't beaten Thomas, he still would've died from the TB, making his family have no money and thus sending them deeper into poverty.

I'll make a case for Strauss and Arthur here. Ultimately, they were doing what Dutch wanted them to do, which was make money the only way they knew how. I think I would be tempted to treat the gang like a business and say Dutch, as the leader, should be held responsible for the actions of his underlings. The gangs actions should be ultimately done under his supervision, and him held responsible for consequences. Everyone else was just surviving the only way they knew how. As the gangs leader, he had control over how Strauss and Arthur collected the money, and I believe Strauss is a Red Herring, or a scapegoat. Not that Strauss and Arthur have no responsibility whatsoever, to a degree they had their own agency, I just think people go way too hard on Strauss, when Dutch signed off on all his actions, and would not have kept him around if he wasn't making money.

While Arthur didn't kill him he definitely accelerated Thomas's demise. If you remember the first time you meet Thomas is when you go to Valentine with Uncle and the girls. He's building a charity house, which goes unfinished due to his death. That charity house theoretically could've fed his family for years after his death if he could have been left to finish it. Tuberculosis would've killed him within a few years but at least his family would have been taken care of.

Arthur is no more responsible for Thomas Downs' fate than Thomas is responsible for Arthur's, they are both symptoms of wider issues in each others lives. For Thomas, Arthur is the embodiment of his desperation brought about by his failing health & finances. Turning to a loan shark to try and fix things in the short term which leads to Arthur shortening his life. For Arthur, Thomas is the embodiment of the consequences resulting from the lifestyle he has led for most of his life. While he may not have been actively aware of it Arthur's actions do have an affect and eventually these things catch up to you. This is shown literally when Arthur contracts TB from Thomas, something that wouldn't have happened if he wasn't collecting debts for Strauss. If I were to point a finger I'd point both fates to Strauss himself. Strauss targeted the Downes family specifically because they were destitute and had no alternative, Arthur himself tells Strauss how foolish it was to loan money to a family that had no means of paying it back. Meanwhile Strauss specifically instructs Arthur to not go gentle on Thomas because he 'doesn't like his sort' an act that would lead to Arthur's own downfall which Arthur comes to realize during his last days when he reflects on his life and the choices he has made.

I did catch this interaction of her in camp this last play through. I slowed down for awhile and caught a lot more conversations I’ve always missed.

Has anyone noticed when Arthur picks up the cross of the floor and mrs downes is in the same shot u think it could be the first time he starts to feel bad about his choices that's what I got from it just a nice little detail I put together the other day during my 3rd play through (probably just me😂)

Just started up an old save I was playing early last year. And I ran into Mrs Downes in Saint Denis. Could not for the life of me remember who she was. And this video pops up. Thank you!

Makes you wonder what would have happened if Arthur didn't beat Mr. Downes. Obviously he still would have died but would his family have been any better off? Perhaps, but maybe not, one could make the argument that had Arthur not done what he did and given them money they may have stayed poor and destitute. Im not suggesting what Arthur did was right but maybe it gave them a life they wouldn't have had otherwise.

I am simply amazed about the level of detail Rockstar put in this story. And also about your effort to uncover and explain allof this. Thank you!

I am loving these analysis videos. Keep up the good work my man!😁

14:00 - You couldn't have worded that ANY WORSE

How many other families have suffered a similar faith after their father or husband or brother or son was gunned down by Arthur's own hand?

There are several answers to the title, as it is more nuanced than a broad strokes question. Is it's Arthur's fault that Thomas died? Sort of, with a stronger bias to yes. The beating surely accelerated the TB, Arthur's TB also accelerates when he takes beatings and other similar bad health situations (Like Colm's torture, Guarma as a whole, the ending). Thomas was going to die anyway but it would have taken longer and Arthur was particularly brutal to Thomas who he knew was poorly because he didn't like him. If had been more merciful or pulled a gun on him instead of beating him, Arthur would not have caught the TB. Is what happened to the Downes family Arthur's fault? No. It's Strauss' fault. He predates on people who won't be able to pay back properly and Arthur was basically just a sentient baseball bat that Strauss used to extort the money out of Downes. Strauss is probably the worst of the gang, including Rat Bell and Dutch the Plan Man.

alright, here’s a couple of 3 things Guy hands you a light envelope, it’s just the beginning The Downes shoulda compromised Arthur’s lungs didn’t have the makings of a varsity organ

It honestly all comes back to Dutch, there's a conversation between Arthur and Dutch where he convinces Arthur to help Strauss if you wait on the missions. This is also why I don't believe Dutch was ever a "good" outlaw, he knew what Strauss was doing was immoral at best but because it made HIM money he allowed it and even pushed for it.

Okay, I have first hand knowledge of TB. I can tell you that you usually don't just contract it and start showing symptoms. You contract it and your body fights it, making you have it BUT you are asymptomatic. It's called latent TB. My husband and brothers in law contracted it from my father in law who, as the doctor said, likely contracted it years ago from someone who was active, and the stroke he had, triggered it. His body was weak and couldn't keep fighting it, causing him to go into active TB and start showing symptoms and becoming contagious. Latent TB is not contagious. My FIL, when he was in the midst of active TB, even a minor beating from a tiny girl like me (5'4" 125lbs) would have killed him. He's quite lucky we have modern medicine. One year of antibiotics later and he was cleared entirely. He had to do like six months of antibiotics before he wasn't even contagious anymore. So yes, Arthur did kill him. But I see what you mean that back then, he would likely die of it, and Arthur just sped it along. My question is what caused Arthur to go into active as fast as he did? I have to assume he was latent or would have been for a while, until the beating from the Odriscolls, combine that with all the stress from the gang, and his immune system probably wasnt up to par and it's why he went into active so quick. But you can take solace in the fact, likely everyone in that gang caught it from him, Micah included. Yes, poor Tilly, Mary Beth, etc. Whether or not they stayed latent through their lives is another question. Had dutch not taken the leap of faith, had John not killed Javier and Micah, and they likely would have died of TB.

In the end, Arthur does show the Downes family that he truly was sincerely sorry and deeply regrets for where he put the family. Both parties know and acknowledge that he can’t fix what he has done, but the Downes were at least able to see that there was indeed a change of heart in Arthur.

Mrs Downes and Archie probably reminded Arthur of his own son and his kids mum

Arthur accelerated the inevitable. As you said maybe that's the better way for them cause now rather than blaming God they could blame Arthur and keep their sanity. I'm so glad they made money in the end. Beautiful story overall and that's just a side story.

Downes knew exactly what he was doing when he borrowed the money from Strauss. Arthur is in no way responsible for his death. Thomas would have died and his family would have wound up poor regardless of what Arthur did.

14:36 you know a game and character is written well when you start to tear up just thinking about Arthur

14:00 Deaf people🙂 Blind people💀

I love how that guy says "you couldn't kill no one" and then Arthur later beats the sh*t out of Micah about 1 min. before he dies of TB. Tough as nails to the bitter end.

Woah, I never noticed Thomas was there at the fist fight

I have a thought after reading some comments. I think contracting TB is what saved Arthur mentally and morally. It might depend a bit on how you played him, but generally the story seems to try and show that Arthur is more ruthless up until that point of being sick and seeing the damage his past actions caused for others, if not only mentally, since I think the Downes's where already on this path even if Arthur never was involved. The interesting point I have though is that if Arthur never contracted TB, I think he would have remained more ruthless and unsympathetic to others, although while still knowing what's right, but also just not caring because of his own strength in self-preserving. I feel that strength kind of enables him to be willfully ignorant of his opportunities to do good, like when Charles needed to push him to not ignore the german family's plight by "playing evil" when Arthur in fact knows better. It makes me wonder if that healthy version of Arthur would have deterred Micah from poking and prodding him, which only happens because Micah notices Arthur's weakness of being sick. Micah might have been more of a suck up instead, while trying to "recruit" him to his thinking and style. Arthur's social status would have been even more feared and respected throughout many events, and he might even have stayed sided with Dutch in the end over helping John and the other "defecting" members. He'd maybe even make it to the events of rdr1 as a target, provided John would even survive with Arthur on the Dutch's side.

i think guarma is the thing that made the tuberculosis truly come out in arthur, he was really fine before that

What always broke my heart is when Arthur says "don't thank me" after helping Edith and her son

11 years later and this video is still being used to teach apprentice mechanics about alignments

The lack of understanding how the body works, and the Arthur meat riding in the comments is wild. Arthur 100% accelerated Thomas Downes death, his body is already quite weak with his immune system trying to fight off one hell of an illness, fever, cold sweats, shivers, and now it suffers the trauma of being punched, kicked and thrown about like a ragdoll by an absolute unit of an outlaw (hardened and used to fighting) in his physical prime. Downes even has to pull himself up with the fence because he's so weak after the beating he can't even stand on his own. Did he make a stupid, desperate decision in taking the loan ? Yes. Did he deserve what he got ? Absolutely not. Arthur CHOSE to beat an already dying man, and that imo, is THE most cruel and despicable thing we see Arthur do during the game that is out of our control, he also wouldn't have contracted TB if he wasn't so eager to beat Downes.

Aggravated assault which in turn aggravated Downes tuberculosis, tuberculosis itself has progression almost exclusively tapered by immune system strength when taken into account alongside how ideal the current environment is for tuberculosis replication. Healing is one of the more taxing immune system processes lengthy and resources intensive already being compromised, even if not from the beating itself this beating especially from a low honor Arthur would be very difficult on his body that was already fighting tuberculosis.

Saying that Arthur was responsible for Downes death is like shooting someone who is already fatally wounded. Perhaps Arthur shortened his time on this earth, but by how much? A few days? A few weeks? Maybe months? Typically, after symptoms manifest tuberculosis is fatal within 30 days to 3 years without some form of treatment. There were some forms of treatment, even in 1899, but most people couldn't afford to move somewhere warm/dry and relax. Just like we see Arthur continue to do his best for the gang as the sickness claims him, extended bed rest and relaxation just wasn't something the common person could afford. Which brings us back to Thomas Downes, he was out tending to his field, which is physical work. The area of the Downes ranch is just east of the Grizzlies, between Strawberry and Valentine. It can get pretty cold at night and during the winter, an environment that isn't great for TB patients. So realistically, at the point he's coughing when we meet him at his ranch, I would say he has at most a month left. We also don't know the exact timeframe from our beating of Thomas and Strauss telling us about his death. Possibly a couple of days to a week. At the end of the day, I don't believe Arthur was to blame for what happened to the Downes family following their first encounter. My grandfather once said that life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you deal with it. In the end, it was Edith's choice to become a prostitute and refuse to leave the region.

Arthur sped up the process, but Mr Downes would die anyway and his family would end up in the slums. The truth is all three of them are guilty - Arthur for being brutal, Strauss for being an agressive loan shark who will even target dead debtor;s family and Mr Downes for taking money to build fundation to get money for poor.

Love love love your channel brotha

It's not Arthur's fault. It was the TB and Strauss.

Nobody forced Thomas to borrow the money.

I think what makes Arthurs moments in Annesburg with the Downes family even more tear jerking is that when Arthur gets to Archie at the mine and Archie proclaims that Arthur killed his dad, Arthur just stays in silent agreement which turns into a subtle admition of guilt when faced with the foreman he just says he's gonna kill him too as if he's agreeing to Archies prior comment.

Debts are debts and should be paid. Any attempt to avoid the debt is trying to take advantage of the people you owe the money to and is highly disrespectful. When others wouldn't take a chance on your, they gave you a chance.

I feel like the Downes family situation wasn't supposed to be a direct comment on Arthur's wrongdoing, but rather a general collection of what Arthur has done wrong. While the Downes situation may not be entirely his fault, the interactions he has with them is supposed to be a symbol for every other awful thing Arthur has done. When Arthur helps them in the "Do Not Seek Absolution" he isn't looking for forgiveness or is not seeking absolution from them, but trying to put right in the world where he has done wrong, with the Downes being the people plaguing his mind due to the punishment he receives from his actions towards them. The Downes are a symbol for all the other people he has hurt.

No, actually not, she would've still ended up poor, plus her Husband knew what he was getting him and *HIS FAMILY* into, actually it's her Husbands fault, it was kind of Arhur to help, they/he knew the rules, and that's it.

I know this might sound stupid but I heard a theory that says that Jamie is not actually Mary Linton’s brother but he’s hers and Arthur’s son. However since her father despises Arthur’s lifestyle and the fact that he’s an outlaw, he raised as his own instead of grandchild.

They borrowed money and didn't pay it back. How could their fate be Arthur's fault because he was sent to make them to do what they agreed to??

I started a new game last week and noticed something. Arthur coughs at the end of the robbery mission with Javier, as Javier is leaving and he's in the barn. this happens regardless of whether Arthur has gone after Downes yet or not, because I chose to put that off as long as I possibly could so Arthur would be healthy for as long as possible during the game. we all know there's no saving him, but that doesn't mean we can't put it off just a wee bit longer. and while this could have been a throwaway thing on that mission, I don't think it was. Arthur doesn't start coughing again until the disease picks up, and I didn't notice anyone else doing it without some aggravating factor like a cloud of dust. Javier's mission doesn't show up until after Arthur has the bar fight that spills into the street. the one Downes intervenes in. and I think THAT is when Arthur got it. the thing with TB, the reason my skin crawled whenever Arthur got too close to anyone in the game, is TB is airborne. just the act of coughing or singing or whatever is enough to spread it. and Downes coughs in Arthur's face when he intervenes in that fight. I think Arthur was doomed after that fight, before he went to confront Downes at all.

In part, yes, because he still took money off desperate people and assaulted a very ill man. Thomas Downes was trying his best, despite his illness, to provide for his family at a time when poor farmers had very few means of getting medical or financial help. Arthur isn't solely responsible, the society of the time was brutal for the sick and the poor, but he isn't completely innocent either.

can you do a video on if jack got shipped to italy instead of going to bronte

If you don't think the attack did anything horrible to Downes, then you do not understand much about a sickness like TB and the strain it puts on the body. Cause when a person is at a late stage of TB like Downes was, the body isn't able to recuperate. It's unable to heal from the wounds. The body is in a tired state, where moving around is a challenge on patients. That's why when you see a person who is sick without the ability to walk or get out of bed, that's the result of a debilitating illness, which is what TB is. To say that it only affects the lungs, you don't know anything about the body, or even tuberculosis, for that matter. I think it's important for you to research this horrific illness before saying anything like that.

Thomas Downes doomed his family, not Arthur. Downes could have gotten a loan from any other loan shark and it would have had the same outcome. I've known people who are like Downes, so charitable that they put themselves and their family into extreme poverty. I had an Evangelical Christian roommate years ago, she gave so much money to charities and her church that she only had $40 for food every month. I told her that she can't help others if she can't help herself. She didn't listen to me or her family that was telling her the same thing and things didn't turn out well for her.

Arthur's VA really did a fantastic job in that last cutscene. The pain and remorse in his voice was just heartbreaking.

I've always interpreted the Downes' family situation as Thomas being the fulcrum of not only their moral compasses but also the reason they were able to live soundly. The two would rather blame Arthur for their husband/father's demise than own up to their shortcomings as people. Archie always came off as a lackadaisical "woe is me" kind of person that was living off his family's land, and Edith felt like she needed her husband's guidance to a more just life. I think it's a fairly accurate representation on how some mourn the loss of loved ones in real life, some fall victim to the grief and want to blame others for what's happened. Just another subplot in the game that I really enjoyed playing through.

Thomas should have never taken the money from Straus. It is Thomas fault.

I hope Arthur could've let go Thomas, the Downes would've probably end being there at Annesbourg. Being able to let go Thomas not only Arthur wouldn't get Tuberculosis, this would surely mean either Micah is even more of a rat and would try to take Arthur out in another way, because I'm sure Micah would have betrayed the Van Der Linde anyways, or Arthur would've taken Micah down quite easily. For the Downes maybe Arthur could've helped them with the mines and get some information in a possible "I have a plan" from Dutch and attack the mines, obviously failing because of the intervention of the Pinkertons.

Thomas was already a dead man walking at that point. Arthur killed him but honestly it was probably for the best that High Honor Arthur tried to make it right, because without him giving the Downes some money before he died (giving them a chance to leave and start new lives) then Mrs. Downes would probably continued working as a prostitute and Archie would get worked to death in the mines.

Downes borrowed the money. He had to know that someone would be by to reclaim the money.

I hate how so many people people just defend Arthur for no matter what. Like seriously, these people don't understand the story at all. Arthur himself knows he isn't a good person. At the end he just fixed what he could

You know, i never made the connection between the end slide and it being Archie and Edith, just assumed it was the Gray and braithwaite kids for some reason.

15:28 "arther puts his hands on the forman" forman: gets slammed to the ground

I think the Golf course of the Downes family is the Golf course in Los Santos (in GTA V)

ultimately it's the faullt of the dad and strauss

Imagine arthur getting salvia into the stew and everybody died of tb

If Arthur hadn't beaten Thomas, his family would have died. Wow, i never thought of that

3:39 Here's the thing, the first time I played this mission, I only threatened Downes, I never beat him. When he didn't give up the money, I thought there might have been an alternate ending to the mission, so I reloaded and did the mission again, beating Downes severely, with the same mission ending. The player doesn't have to beat Downes at all to complete the mission, therefore, Thomas Downes' fate would still have been the same, he would've have died, they would've have lost the farm, and the mother and son would've been left destitute. The son blames Arthur because the son has no one else to blame, and it's easy to blame a heartless thug who only cares about money.

Thomas Downes would’ve died from TB regardless, which would’ve resulted in Mrs. Downes and their son living in poverty anyways. It was inevitable.

Never realized Thomas stops you from killing the guy outside the bar, that’s crazy

The real villain behind all of this is Strauss

I don't blame Arthur for Thomas's death, Thomas has TB already and at its death's door, I blame Strauss for Thomas's and Arthur's death in the end.

Where did you get that bad T.B vest

Video idea: who's the more honourable mc john or Arthur

Thomas could have died next day anyways either with his meeting with Arthur or without. Who would she blame? They already were broke af, so I didn’t blame Arthur to be honest. Just that woman decided to put all her emotions on Arthur.

The thanks buddy part is very funny

Wait how did I not see Edith in that cutscene with Archie I must just be blind

rdr3 better be set in heaven where he tries searching for thomas and micah for killing him, having to kill god and stuff in the process

I actually felt bad playing through that mission.

I think the Downes were lucky Arthur agreed to visit them. Imagine what would have happened if he refused and Strauss would have sent Micah Bell instead.

You can assume to Syphilis killed her as it did to Al capone.

arthur paid the ultimate price for what he did to the family, he lost his life which he may have been fit enough to avoid, and his gang falling apart may have not been as much of a mess if he was still fit, I reckon the illness would have given micah leverage when whispering into dutch's ear

Here's a hot take: Strauss is worse than Micah, Micah is an up front scum bag but at least he gets his hands dirty, Strauss sends others to do his dirty work. Arthur was being an enforcer, it's the same concept as people who borrow money from the Mob you know what you're getting into best to stay away from loan sharks. How much Arthur did or did not worsen his condition is unknown but at the end of the day Thomas Downes is responsible for that entire exchange.

Mr. Downes, despite his charity and good intentions, knew he was heading into his grave soon, and what does he decide to leave behind to his family? a debt that could have at best left his family destitute, and at worst, for all he knew regarding one of the most dangerous gangs, potentially murdered if someone more heartless got involved. imagine, for a minute, what would have happened if he borrowed money from a more brutal gang that would murder his family, or worse, if Micah was sent to deal with the debt. hell, even a bank would be more heartless than chapter 6 Arthur. and if Arthur didn't come along and give them money, his wife would resort to prostitution indefinitely, and his son would be doomed into being worked to death in the mines.

Look at it this way Thomas took the money he knew the risk Strauss loaned the money he also knew Thomas was high risk and would most likely fault on his payment Arthur did the deed knowing what his line of work entailed regardless of what happens to the debtor whilst collecting what's due Thomas knew he was struggling and that taking loans he couldn't pay either through failed means or his demise could spell doom for his family or worsen it. Strauss should have assessed the situation better and look Into their situation to see if his return on investment would be met with guarantee and assurance which was a lapse on his part. Arthur in his usual fashion was just being dumb muscle without knowing the full scope of his job and what he's getting into just decides business as usual going to work on a man who was clearly frail and weak because the man presents no visible threat and pushes the man closer to deaths doors if not outright killing him because maybe in his mind adding murder to an unpaid debt is justifiable. Now weather the injuries Thomas incurred by Arthur were superficial or had a direct correlation to his already existing illness which lead to his death shortly after is unknown but it's fair game to assume Arthur beating up on him may have done the work. Now to put things into perspective for Arthur fanboys if someone is dying and you do something to push that person into the grave at a faster rate regardless of reasoning regardless of how it's done weather it an injection trauma blunt force or a bullet it still makes you just as much liable to that person's death even if there was no ill intent and even if it was meant to be a Mercy killing you're still liable. Now weather you face prosecution or not is a different discussion all together but from a humane and moral standpoint you are still wrong . Now to put things into context for a better understanding here's a prime example low honor Arthur gets either a bullet to the head or a knife in the back from micha yes Arthur was sick yes Arthur was dying he may have lived a few hours or a few days at best but in this case it was either a bullet to the head that killed him or bloodloss and shock from a stab wound that killed him possibly because he was already weak this is what brought about his death with regards to the stab wound and an instantaneous death with regards to the bullet to the head in those endings thus taking away the natural karmic circle of life away from Arthur. Now some might argue that micha beating up on Arthur in high honor could have been what also killed him but not lets forget that Arthur had just fought against several waves military and Pinkertons not to mention he had a brief grapple and scuffle session with Milton so we could add all that to contributing factors in Arthur's death in high honor. So in conclusion it's mostly Arthur and Strauss and to a degree Thomas's actions that ruined the downes family if Thomas lived long enough like Arthur he could have set something's straight and have a little money left over for his family after his demise had Arthur not pushed him into the grave quicker because we did see Thomas was still out working his land when Arthur rode up on him. It's also Strauss fault for his predatory lending methods And last but not least Arthur as stated before for making Thomas's trip to the grave quicker.

That's why Strauss when he was caught didn't say a dagum thing, in the end he blamed himself for what happened to Arthur because he's the one who sent him to collect the money from the guy.

Downes is to blame. He's the one that said yes to Strauss.

the Downes took out too many loans and relied on a known loan shark.. TB was not curable at the time. Mrs. Downes had some other options, she could have become a seamstress, worked at a factory, a nanny, a housemaid, anything. She chose that path. they are responsible for their own downfall. What happened to the Downes family is not completely on Arthur's shoulders. Saying as much implies that is Arthur had never visited them they would financially stable family. Mr. Downes even said they own more than the farm is worth. That implies that they owe multiple people.

If strauss hadn't joined the gang Arthur would've gotten sick

I didn't even hit him once during the mission and still got through it

0:03 Before watching the video I would have to say by the time Arthur got to them it was already too late because Thomas fell for Strauss manipulation’s I mean, if you think about it Strauss could have sent John or Micah and the outcome would be the same

i get it. you're trying to defend arthur. he's a bad person. being the protagonist doesn't change that.

I didn’t even beat downes I just kept threatening him until the cutscene played where he coughed on Arthur

In my playthrough, I didn't even hit him, although he shows cuts and bruises. I just threatened him.

I didn't know that they went from rags to riches in the end

The way I look at it, that mf Thomas Downes killed Arthur Morgan!