Though it was frustrating for me, I did listen to the full two hours. Dr. Paul appears to be saying: 1) Yes Palestinians have been treated inappropriately, and 2) yes the Israeli response is saddening, however 3) October 7 counterbalances and supersedes all else, especially because Israel is historically oppressed. This is a very simple position and I didn't find the two hours of discussion added much to support it, though other interesting points were raised for other reasons. Every commenter I respect says the opposite: 1) Yes October 7 was an atrocity, but 2) Israel and the world's years of aggression prior to that action and 3) the genocidal actions following October 7 vastly counterbalance the Palestinian actions. This seems patently obvious to me, and apparently to most of the public. Palestinians have been made desperate over decades and when they finally have a noteworthy enough reaction to decades of oppression, they're met with genocide. I heard two hours of begging "but October 7 must be acknowledged" while simultaneously not hearing a single word weighing this incredible disbalance of power and half century suffering AGAINST October 7. Israel has now killed vastly more Palestinians than Israelis killed October 7. Even if you took a very cryptic, Biblical eye-for-eye stance! A disproportionate number of them are women, journalists, and especially children, and the disproportion only grows when compared to numbers of Israeli women and children killed. If you're going to look at both sides, they must be, at minimum, compared and contrasted against each other! The inability to do that over 2 HOURS is infuriating.
Thank you for the response even though we fundamentally disagree. My main two contentions with your reply would be 1. Please stop misusing the word “genocide” - it’s a sad reflection on the state of public discourse that the basic meaning of words is undermined. 2. I think you make a false equivalence when you compare the number of deaths on both sides. My point was different, it was the specific *barbarity* of Oct 7th that I was highlighting. We can talk equivalency when you can show me similar footage of IDF soldiers filming themselves committing atrocities and celebrating them.
@@ReadersoftheLostArt @paultaylor202 Thank you, appreciate your reply. Your mention of "celebration" helps me understand your position better. I can understand the visceral emotion of that. I personally think that an icy cold machine of war can in some ways more terrorizing and more worthy of condemnation, specifically because it's more subtle in a sinister way, but like I said the emotion is understandable. Could you please explain why it does not qualify as genocide? Israel's actions seem to me to be a systematic and indiscriminate killing of the Arab/Palestinian cultural group due to their religion and ethnicity, per the definition.
@@nomadiccleric5672 my understanding of genocide is that it refers to the attempt or desire to exterminate a whole people. Hamas do desire (it is in their constitution) to eradicate Israel but Israel is not seeking to exterminate the whole Palestinian people. This does not mean that I am unaware or unsympathetic about large scale Palestinian deaths but that is not the same as genocide. I also acknowledge in the talk my unease at the Jewish “right of return” and I have always been scathing about the behaviour of some settlers. I agree that military action can cause tremendous suffering but in this sense the IDF is no worse (and in some ways much more careful) than other armies around the world. The Dresden bombings were horrendous but Churchill was fighting for the survival of the UK. Armchair leftists are only free to protest because they are protected by huge Western military power and to that extent they are hypocrites, and in the case of “Queers for Palestine” irredeemably unreflective. There is an unusual degree of scrutiny applied to the Israeli State whilst it is just assumed that we cannot expect to judge various Middle Eastern dictatorships, or Hamas, by the same criteria (not to mention other human rights abuses elsewhere in the world). In the past, as I said in the talk, I have always been sympathetic to the Palestinians but whilst Hamas continues to receive their widespread support, even when it acts with barbarism, I refuse to apply moral standards unequally. Finally, I find a lot of the outrage at the Israeli retaliation to be disingenuous because provoking it was a key part of the Hamas strategy when launching the Oct 7th attacks. People marching in London and elsewhere appear pathologically incapable of recognising a) the unique degree of barbarity and b) the basic culpability of Hamas for what followed. (Unfashionably perhaps, I believe that actions have consequences). Best wishes, Paul.
@@ReadersoftheLostArt Thank you, you've given me reason to read and learn further. I see that just over 30,000 Palestinians have been killed, or right around 1.5% of the population. 10% are in catastrophic famine, with estimates it will be 50% in the next few months, and 75% are in Rafah where Netanyahu intends to strike. Apparently, Israelis are preparing to settle further into the north of Gaza. I now think it's poised to become a genocide, but you're right it isn't yet comparable to the million killed in Rwanda / 77% of the Tutsi population. I also learned more about the single-minded terroristic intention of Hamas. I think the heavier scrutiny on Israel comes because they're directly funded by us as Western tax payers, much like we have heavy criticism of our own politicians who we pay. I think it also comes because Israel is in such a crushing position of power in this conflict, and therefore also bears a disproportionate amount of the work to move toward peace. I think people have been upset on Gaza's historic behalf for a very long time and are now motivated to show that. I can see that Hamas has made peaceful resolution a non-starter. Still, I can't help but see Israel as the initial aggressor, and to your point, to see the popularity of Hamas as the direct consequence of Israel's actions over decades.
@@nomadiccleric5672 I think you make some very good points, and, to repeat, for many years I have been supportive of Palestinians and critical of Jewish settlers. I do think, however, that you’ve too uncritically accepted the “decades of oppression” argument. I cannot conceive of a situation (other than Israel’s complete destruction) that would satisfy Hamas - that means rational negotiation is no longer possible. I understand your point about tax payers money, but that still doesn’t address the inverse racism of allowing Palestinians and others to act with barbarism whilst making excuses for it rather than calling it for what it is. Are we assuming Palestinians are incapable of non-barbarism? I think much of the dire situation now experienced by Palestinians is a direct consequence of Oct 7th - their support of Hamas has caused terrible consequences. They are not uninvolved bystanders.
Aw tearing up just thinking about a letter 🥹 Must be some letter! Certainly there is great strength in finding meaning in books. My family hid books, and my mother would tell me about their (Russians in this case) desperate attempt to wipe out all literature, all meaning and hope.
Richard I felt goosebumps when you read the Israeli poem that seemed prophetic in its message .. and the other day I cried at the disproportionate and devastating horror that the Palestinians are experiencing and suffering right now as I write this.
After a while of reading comments, certain patterns and tendencies have become noticeable and worth commenting upon: - Some people seem unable to listen to a discussion, hear the full context and then engage with what they may disagree with. Instead, they provide a running commentary of their immediate impressions as they are watching it. I genuinely don’t mean to be snippy, but this is a sign of psychological immaturity - there doesn’t seem any ability to delay satisfaction/judgment, everything is reduced to instantaneous emotional incontinence. - There is a repeated tendency to claim that Richard or I said something and then to go off on a tirade based upon the thing that we did not in fact say, I appreciate that this may be more convenient for the person unwilling to listen, but it does nothing for advancing ideas. - One comment from one non-listener to another was along the lines of “we need to get the truth out there”. This commentator seems blissfully unaware of how much that makes him sound like a cross between an agent from the X-Files and a Jehovah’s Witness. I am not claiming I have “the truth”, I have a perspective based upon decades of reading that I presented, I don’t expect people to agree with me but I do hope they have a more sophisticated response than a Neanderthal insistence that their truth club is the biggest. Finally, it would take forever to list the misrepresentations people have made of what was actually said during the discussion, but one feature that has surprised me most is the determination of some of my critics not to address the central issue of Oct 7th. It is perfectly legitimate to argue that the IDF response is disproportionate and horrific, but in the midst of that, there seems to be a pathological unwillingness from some to confront the specific, medieval, nature of the barbarity committed on that day. All deaths on both sides need to be acknowledged, but I have been taken aback at the cowardice of those who find ever more inventive ways not to consider, head on, the barbarity of the Oct 7th acts.
I’m at the 14 minute mark and listening even though I have to grit my teeth at times and shut down my biased human thoughts. I’m Arab and proclaim loud and clear that what happened on 7 October was horrendous and was the catalyst for what is happening today. But I also hate the Idf so much for what it is doing to the humans in Gaza. It is so unfair. It is so unjust. Why are these kids and babies paying the price with their lives? The whatsapp messages that come out of Gaza and get forwarded all around the Arab world give a picture of monstrosity and horror unlike anything else that you see in the news and on social media. I just received a written message pleading for food for starving families in north Gaza. October 7th was a crime and Hamas are barbarous criminals, yes I proclaim it loud and clear until my throat is hoarse. But please please please for the love of all that is good and holy, please stop killing and maiming and starving the Palestinian children . They are just children. And I swear it - I know they are disgusting, backwards, towel headed Arabs - but they are human, I swear it, they are. 😞
The number of misrepresentations in this very comment is immense, but I'll try to deal with each. 1) there is no requirement, nor should there be, to watch an entire 2 hour video before commenting. Comments are meant to apply to specific statements as much as the entire context of a video. That's why people do this constantly on RU-vid, and there's nothing unethical about it. If you want people to watch an entire 2 hour video, you should be intriguing enough to hold their attention, and not insult their intelligence in the first 5 minutes, as you did in this video. When you make claims that are patently false almost immediately, I have no obligation to watch 2 more hours of such nonsense. And we have every right to comment as such. If you had made a more honest approach in the beginning, I would have listened to a lot more, as I clearly clicked on the video because I was interested in what you had to say initially. It was your own failure to give balance to the discussion that resulted in me deciding to not waste more time on it.
2) it is completely unethical to tell others they are emotional immature simply because they criticize your views statedin the video. You claim to be a doctor and should have more humility than this, especially if you are emotionally "mature" (I'm seriously questioning that fact). Getting triggered by the fact that we have a different interpretation of events and then using that to make statements about a stranger's mental health is clearly unethical. You should know better!
3) yes, people need to get "the truth" out there about what happened on the 7th. This isn't a claim that there's a universal truth that only we are in possession of, but rather a statement about the fact that we've been fed a lot of lies about the 7th that have since been exposed, and also many completely false statements about what's occurred since. No one possesses the ultimate truth, and one would think that's obvious to a doctor such as yourself. You seem to think the propaganda only comes from one side and that you haven't been subjected to it at all. I tried to discuss these things with you honestly and openly, but instead you came straight at me with insults about my mental health. And then you complain that there's not a discussion... Please point out where I ever stated "my truth club is the biggest." This is yet another case of projection. All because I told another commenter that it was important to speak out about the truth, as if that means we are holding some ultimate Truth that isn't available to others. That's such a poor assumption to make that is completely out of context. Again, I thought you were better than that. If you can't handle criticism, you really shouldn't be posting on RU-vid. I didn't even make a single bad faith argument or character attack. That was all you...
4) Just look at the language being used. "X files, Jehovah's witness, Neanderthal...." All while complaining that it's the commenter who isn't willing to speak in good faith or that they are the one who make ultimate truth claims. This is clearly manipulative language that is meant to insult the other. Not exactly how a doctor should behave...
Hi Sally, maybe to avoid such incredible disappointment you should provide Richard with a list of pre-approved speakers and ideas (this does seem to be the direction society is heading in). Very best wishes, Paul.
Nobody but me has access to this channel, and I haven’t logged in since setting this to premiere yesterday. I doubt your comments would be deleted by YT unless they used a lot of profanity.
@@richardgrannonphilosophy thankyou sir for responding, I certainly did not use profanity, nor was I accusing Richard Grannon of deleting my comments. I did use the words Israel, MOSAD, Hamas, CIA, false flag, 9/11,, and other various key words, the g-word which apparently only applies to ww2, the c-word (obviously not 'see you next Tuesday') references to land being grabbed, and other ideas in certain orders which stated that there are agencies at work behind Oct 7. This apparently triggered an automatic censorship algorithm. Several attempts at making this assertion were deleted. Will see if this comment stands.
@@richardgrannonphilosophy alternatively someone tagged my comment for "hate speech"which I did receive a notice for, because I implied that Palestinians are victims of genocidal warfare by a certain chosen few.
@richardgrannonphilosophy oh and another comment was removed which I don't even begin to understand wherein I thanked the gentleman politely and said I am a God-fearing freedom loving person who only wants the best for everyone. Oh yes, i mentioned that people of all faiths (which i named) reside in the P territory.
"Israel - Hamas conflict" - this framing is both wildly dishonest and revealing. Imagine trying to lecture others on the importance of reading history and having a moral compass, then posting this B.S. Mirror, mirror, dude.
@@Kunjesvari the conflict is between Israel and Palestinians, not just Hamas. It’s a 75 year old conflict with a lot of history. 30,000 Palestinians have been wiped out in just the last 4 months. Accuracy of language precedes anything.
@@krystle8534 thank you for sharing. I thought it was just me. I really enjoyed him earlier! Hard to see such a dramatic change. Maybe I was wrong to start with?
Yeah, that seems to be making an excuse for the current genocide.... I wonder if he'd been alive during Nat Turner's slave revolt if he would have made the same argument. "Well, I was against slavery, but then they rose up violently, so now now I'm pro slavery instead....."
No, please don’t misrepresent what was said. At no point do I directly equate the two phenomena e.g. the Free Palestine movement is a diverse coalition of groups. The section I am most critical of are those (typically young) people who demonstrate Stalinist levels of certainty/self-righteousness in apparent inverse proportion to any actual knowledge. Yes, the degree of certainty is similar to that held by radical communists (who believe they have all the answers to social flaws) but, unlike communists, they have no actual matching thought out and argued ideology. Conceptual substance is replaced with strength of feeling and endless slogans. You can see this played out on this site through the person who childishly put pro-Palestinian slogans in a pile of replies before stropping off and unsubscribing. I have taught radical leftist cultural theory (The Frankfurt School etc.) and great leftist thinkers from the past would be turning in their graves at the behaviour of Hamas enabling “useful idiots”.
@@DrPaulAT ok, point taken. I guess I mean to say there are those of us who disagree with the way Israel is behaving towards Palestine who are not radical leftists at all. Libertarian thinkers do not believe that Israel has the right to encroach on lands held by these people for centuries, jews, arabs, Christians alike, and that the"chosen people" are insane to think they have some divine right to violently take their property. I am neither a Communist nor a left wing ideologue and I do not support Hamas either. Palestine is not Hamas.
Thanks for the reply. Palestine is not Hamas, but Hamas are the current effective and dominant power (to the point that Palestinians themselves are afraid of crossing them) so, we can quibble over who the Palestinians are, but as long as Hamas are attacking it is Hamas who need to be responded to.@@Kunjesvari
Er, don’t respond and let people be decapitated etc. Are you refusing to accept Oct 7th was an actual event that needs a response, (or whatever word you find more acceptable )?@@Kunjesvari
Thank you for another fulfilling couple of hours. I Loved the Tower of Babel discussion and the different interpretations of the Garden of Eden. Speaking of diversity and the ironic way that has manifested the opposite--a solution of intolerance--we are at cross purposes in almost anything we try to accomplish because of the hamster wheel of inclusion. Regarding October 7th, and the wider ramifications of terror and radicalization, it seems to me the only way to be is absolutist. We just can't have that. We can't have babies mutilated and burned alive in front of their families...and every other atrocity that took place on that day. No matter what the future looks like in terms of territory and if that will ever be possible, the one thing that can be simple and certain is that terrorists have to be abolished completely. I know that the matter is endlessly complex and an in depth understanding of history and geopolitics etc is necessary to get into the weeds of it, but as long as we waffle and try to placate and attempt to use reason and talks and accords to ameliorate terrorism, we are doomed. Violence is an addiction to these people. Peace is not going to satisfy a people bred on, steeped in and fueled by destruction. It's no different than gang violence, cartel violence or organized crime. It's not only a means to an end, they need violence like a fix.
Your statement could be correct if it were about Israel.... Babies weren't burned alive in front of their families on the 7th. That's 100% a made-up story of Israeli propaganda. ONE baby died on the 7th according to the official reports. Compare that to how many Palestinian babies have been killed (by bombs which could equate to being burned alive, or by starvation, which is the most horrific death imaginable, carrying out the suffering over months), often along with their entire families, in the months since... 10,000+ children at least! How about the children having to have limbs amputated without anesthetic? Or deliberate bombing of hospitals and blocking of aid (which would include what these hospitals need to treat these children).... Who are the terrorists? On the 7th, people who had never left the prison they grew up in, broke out and carried out a military attack on their oppressors. Some innocent people died, and that's sad, but they weren't targeted deliberately. Those people, btw, were holding A RAVE next to the fence of this CONCENTRATION CAMP! What kind of psychological make up do you have to have to party next to people living in such horrible conditions? Evidence suggests that Hamas didn't even know about the rave, so there's no way to say this was about terror. They captured hostages to try to trade with Palestinian hostages held by Israel in the thousands. Many of those are children who had simply been accused of throwing rocks. Literally! Throwing rocks! And they received no trial. How can you explain that? Should a child be locked up in prison for years for throwing a rock? Is that not terrorism? Israel also goes into Gaza every few years to, in their words, "MOW THE LAWN" What do you think that means? The idea that it's the Palestinians that want violence is absurd, with even the most basic amount of research. Please, do everyone a favor and LEARN about this situation before making such obscene comments. At least have the basic humanity to understand what their lives must have been like, even before the 7th. Because things have turned into hell on earth for this population, half of which are children btw, and thinking that Israel has any right to this behavior is essentially like being a nazi supporter in the 40s. The difference is that the Nazis tried to hide it, while today, Israel proudly proclaims it will commit genocide before it does. It's shameful that you can't see what's really going on.... But there's a chance to redeem yourself if you try. Being "absolutist" in this situation means you absolutely are the ones committing crimes against humanity
I honestly think you’re suffering from some level of emotional dysregulation judging by the way you’ve distorted what was said during the discussion and your caricature of Oct 7th. I hope you get the help you need. Very best wishes, Paul.@@MattAngiono
@@DrPaulAT aren't you a doctor? You should have way more humility and class to tell a complete stranger that they are suffering from emotional dysregulation! This is completely unethical. First of all, you don't seem to understand how comments work. I was responding to another comment and you jump in and say I'm misrepresenting what was said in the video. I DIDN'T EVEN REFER TO THE VIDEO ONCE IN THIS COMMENT. This shows a lot more about your own emotional triggers than mine. You find the need to constantly tell people they have mental issues when you haven't even met them. If you are in fact a doctor, you should know how ridiculous and unethical such statements are. You are not my therapist or psychologist and have no grounds whatsoever to make such claims. You also clearly don't understand facts. You bring up October 7th endlessly and it sounds like you have no idea what happened on that day. Please explain your interpretation for me AND PROVIDE EVIDENCE. I say this because you admit in the video that you haven't even watched the videos of the event which you seem to place your entire analysis upon. If you can't even watch the videos and then claim to know what happened, you are clearly not showing any good faith in your analysis, but rather spreading propaganda of someone else. Either you show me the direct evidence, or I have absolutely no obligation to listen to your claims. It seems that you are the one with a "caricature" of the 7th, as you seem so obsessed with forcing others to condemn it when it's not even the focus of the point being made. What is your goal with constantly bringing up what happened that day in the context of a literal genocide that has killed OVER TEN THOUSAND CHILDREN? Are you trying to say that the actions of a small group of rebels in one act of rebellion was so horrendous that it somehow justifies the collective punishment of millions of Palestinians? Can you really make arguments like that so shamelessly? If so, I'm afraid it's you that needs counseling.... It's so beyond what any sane human being should say about this horrific situation.... And you want to tell me that I need help? Okay..... You've shown your true colors just plenty here and completely discredited yourself. I'm not sure if it's because of racism or what, but your bias on this issue allows no rationality. You are dehumanizing millions of people because of the action of a small group of oppressed people and how they chose to revolt. And your only tool is projection, as you are doing the very thing you accuse your critics of, by misrepresenting our arguments and worse, insulting or mental health. No legitimate doctor should ever behave in such an unethical manner. But you do you. I gave you the chance to respond in good faith and you never did. Instead, you reply to comments that aren't even directed at you to make completely false claims and accusations. Are you familiar with what gaslighting is? ..... Unfortunately, like most of my honest and truthful comments, this one has been hidden from view and isn't even showing up any more, so RU-vid is clearly manipulating public opinion on this matter yet again.
Looking good Richard! And I agree about the bureaucratic mindset. Power corrupts. But there are always exceptions and pros to any system. I don’t like blanket statements. BUT I do notice liberal and conservative industries are ridiculous in their own ways, and I get where he’s coming from. And I’m gonna leave my comments at that 😁
Inspiring and enlightening interview. To Richard or anyone else who can answer: I started reading Blood Meridian after a vid where Richard said it was his favorite book. I’m halfway through and kind of stopped bc I lost track of which characters were whom. I’m not a naturally voracious reader or book-finisher. Why is this Richard’s favorite book? Is it similar to the benefit of reading Dostoyevsky, someone else whose books I have only read the beginning of, where its fiction but you draw philosophical wisdom from the plot? Thank you
Hi Julia, without wishing to speak for Richard, I think Cormac McCarthy appeals to people (myself included) a) because of his use of brilliantly descriptive language and b) the atmospheric use he makes of American desert scenery. “Blood Meridian” is also particularly noteworthy for its psychologically forensic portrayal of evil personified in the character of Judge Holden - an amazingly dark and disturbing character. William Faulkner is a great of American literature and McCarthy isn’t out of place in his company - they’re relatively similar in style and McCarthy admits to having been influenced by him. I’d encourage you to persevere with “Blood Meridian” it’s certainly not a cheery read, but it shines a light on human evil and cruelty like few other books. Best wishes, Paul.
An exceptionally erudite and open mided conversation covering so many of the things that I am currently preoccupied with. Would be good to have a reference link to Dr Paul Taylor's work and writing. Thank you both!
Thanks for the positive feedback Marty, much appreciated. My past written work has been very academic. E.g books like “Zizek and the Media”, “Heidegger and the Media”, and “Critical Theories of the Mass Media: Then & Now” - none are a particularly light read. I am working on a book that aims to be more accessible with the rough working title “Lost Literacy” and it will deal with many of the themes I have been chatting with Richard about. It’ll be a good while before it’s finished I’m afraid because it’s quite ambitious in scope but I do aim to finish it! Thanks again, Paul.
@@DrPaulAT Thanks Paul, I will look out for your publications, but hope to see more in discussions like this. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Gracious of you. Cheers!
Here's another take on the Garden of Eden: Eve didn't tempt Adam; she was testing him. Would Adam be morally strong enough to be a trustworthy mate for her and father to her children?
Hi James, Christopher Butler’s “Postmodernism: A Very Short Introduction” gives a good basic overview. Then Mark Fisher’s “Capitalist Realism” is an excellent and short interpretation of postmodernism as a lived experience. Hope that helps, Best, Paul.
Of all the works mentioned in this discussion, I've only read Night by Elie Wiesel (please forgive my spelling if it's wrong; it was years ago). I have a LOT of catching up to do. I'm looking forward to the struggle. Thank you both, very much.
