**Let's address the common questions!** *1) Does this mean hybrids aren't reliable?* No! Just because something is challenging or problematic, does not mean there aren't solutions to overcome it. Toyota has repeatedly proven hybrids can be insanely reliable, as discussed in the video. Good engineering can overcome real problems. In the car world, it's often thought that "simple = better" but you can have something complex and reliable (Prius), and you can have something simple and unreliable (ahem, you know who they are). There's a lot of fascinating engineering that goes into making these things run reliably. *2) Are the problems overblown?* It depends! As mentioned in the video, it's completely scenario dependent on whether you build up water/fuel dilution over time. Modern hybrids will have algorithms to address this as much as possible - with scheduled longer run times to help boil off water. For long distances, you can get temps high enough, consistently enough, to get rid of water/fuel. Even still, versus non-hybrids, you will see lower average temperatures, and short trips can exacerbate this issue (especially if the engine is turning on/off during these trips). *3) How do older hybrids deal with these problems?* Many ways! One of the easiest solutions to ensuring you don't have too much oil/fuel dilution is a shorter oil drain interval. Changing the oil is a guaranteed way of getting those fluids out. The more frequently you do this, the less of a challenge it is. Modern engines are calling for longer and longer oil drain intervals - the video discusses a product which is designed to handle these longer intervals reliably. *4) What about electric oil pumps; does that help with start/stop?* Sure, in many modern hybrids you have electric oil pumps - this can help provide oil flow prior to re-starting the engine. But not all hybrids have electric oil pumps; plenty (especially older hybrids) have mechanical pumps that only run when the engine is running. When you don't have oil flow, you're reliant on the properties of the oil - what film is left behind, as well as additives (like ZDDP, as discussed) to protect the engine in these scenarios.
One of the reasons I bought a hybrid is how many miles I drive in heavy traffic, frequently 110 miles a day. Shouldn't have any problems with the engine not being hot enough.
Seems like we have some major hypocrisy here.... 😂. I remember you doing a video defending the efficiency of vehicles with start stop systems and how much the engines are consuming while at idle.
no, what is hard on engines are bean counters. hybrid engines should be dry-sumped with electric oil pumps that keep the oil circulating and at pressure... i mean youve got a minimum 48v charging system with huge batteries... but thats expensive to build so the shift the cost to the consumer with expensive oil and planned obsolescence in engines that fail shortly after warranty...
The amount of hybrids on the market going hundreds of thousands of miles on the original engine is proof automakers have enough measures in place to compensate for the issues raised here.
@@androiduberalles No. He is saying that there are more good sides to hybrids than down sides. So even if there are some issues, in general they are great.
4:00 I have a 2001 Prius, and when I bought it in 2020, I thought it idled after initial startup for a worrying amount of time. Turns out it just waits until it's completely warmed up (coolant and oil) to go into full operation and be able to shut off and start up at will. It will idle continuously until everything is warmed up to operating temperature, and only then will it shut off.
As a engineer who has worked in PCV systems, the first time we saw the condensation/moisture problem from repeated starts was not in PHEVs and hybrids... but actually normal ICE vehicles in dealership lots. During the winter, we noted that some dealers would move cars from one side of the lot to the other side as they clear the lot of snow. Over 30-40 of these 'cycles', they end up with substantial amounts of water in the crankcase, and we had to instruct dealers to leave the vehicles on to fully warm up to prevent this happening. Typically in small amounts this doesn't cause an issue, but as you imagine, problems started to crop up when that much water has accumulated in the engine. This experience was really useful when we got into PHEVs, because we developed two things: a counter to force the engine to turn on after a number of 'cold starts' to force a warmup cycle, and then an algorithm to modify (shorten) the oil change interval minder if the engine is still not given the opportunity to warmup (say if the customer has constant short drives). As a tangentially related topic, moisture in oil is also how some oil catchcan manufacturers mislead, or at least inflate, claims about how well their products work. Today's PCV oil separation systems are basically like science experiments and incredibly efficient under most circumstances, but they do not filter out fuel and water vapour (those go back into the intake to be ingested). So when you see forum posts from oil catchcan manufacturers showing how much fluid they're capturing from new/modern street driven vehicles not subject to high G-loads, chances are that it's mostly water and fuel, and they never put that fluid into an oven to evaporate it and show you the true amount of oil they're actually capturing.
Excellent comment - thanks for sharing your insight! And yes, "lot rot" is certainly a concern for dealer cars that just get shuffled around and never warm up to temperature - probably has to be frustrating from the OE side to try and implement a solution!
Funny I learned this from older guys back in the late 1970s. When only drove short distances during the winter moisture would build up, hence why mufflers rotted out faster so once a week you drove a long distance to dry out the engine and of course short times between oil changes. If you didn't there would be foam around your PCV and likely the carburetor. Take a drive of 20-30 miles one way and it would mostly dry out.
So based on the video I think he is refer to plug in hybrid, then I assume manufacture will put a loop on battery oil heater, my wife's Mitsubishi Outlander has a loop for that reason so when engine do start they are halfway into warmth, unless the battery itself is dead then the engine will have some degree of restriction in power output, we felt that too.
Sure you didn’t. It’s unbelievable that you actually expect us to believe a 22 year Toyota dealership employee over a guy paid to hawk expensive motor oil. I should report your comment for misinformation. 😂 😝
Toyota Hybrid engines use 3 phase veriable speed water pumps and oil pumps controled by the engine computer. Even though the engine may not be running the water and oil pumps are running while driving. So thats two reasons why Toyota Hybrid taxi's with 600000 are still running strong.
@@funlovingJohn my 2001 Prius doesn't. The only thing I hear under the hood while my Prius is idling is the inverter coolant pump and if it's on, the HVAC blower.
Nicely said, I'm a Toyota mechanic and we never have had issues described in the video. The only cars that usually do have mayonaise under the oil fill cap is usually on the ICE's and like 0.01% on the Hybrids. Long Live Toyota♥
I'm a technician and I just bought a new Ford hybrid 2 months ago. I waited extra time so I could get the hybrid package in my Maverick. Ford and Toyota embraced the technology 20 years ago and have a lot of R&D in the segment to work with. They're the only ones I really trust when it comes to a hybrid. If you want to choose a vehicle that is durable and meant to last, look at what taxi companies use. You can't touch an old Prius or Escape hybrid at an auction because the taxi companies will pay top dollar for them. Seeing either with 2 or 300k miles on them on original engines and batteries is not uncommon. The reason is simple. Neither the ICE or the electric drive system is ever fully taxed. The engine comes on and runs at the point its under the least amount of stress, and the batteries are maintained at an optimal charge level almost constantly. This makes for a very durable, efficient drivetrain that will last a very long time.
@@corneliouscook6062 As someone who owns and uses a 2004 CVPI for the last 10 years, that is absolutely the case! It's been my dependable commuter while the nicer truck gets used on the weekends or for longer trips.
I have a 2013 Prius C, it's been on 3 continents, across the ocean 4 times, and driven through the artic circle. Only things I've had to do since buying it used in 2014: Change oil, coolant, plugs. My 2021 Ram 1500, is not doing as well.
Love your videos but this one is just a little too connected to an oil company marketing its product. Hybrid engines are known to last a long time. My family owns three hybrids and never seen any signs of water in the oil in any of them. As you point out, oil sticks to surfaces keeping a level of protection in place and this is especially the case for frequent hybrid start/stops. Hybrids are also often managed to turn the engine prior starting to pre-lube it before turning on injectors and ignition systems. Finally, electric oil pumps are increasingly being used which can operate independently of engine rotation. So, Mobil is really highlighting a solution to an already solved problem to try to convince people to buy their oil.
It all depends where u live .. if u live in tropical country where is low rain or very little moisture like in UK u good.. In uk is lot of air and water cars rusting and degrading faster...
Taxi driver from Europe here. We use Toyota hybrids a lot. They dont have any issues if maintaned corectly. Personally I drive a diesel Mercedes and I have problems all the time
@@aramesh428 Because I sit in it for 9-10 hours a day and Toyota isnt good for that. It has the plastic interior and the seats are not that good for long hours. The driving position cant be adjusted as in a Mercedes. The ride quality in a Mercedes is also on a different planet then on a Toyota. I can also get better rides while driving a Mercedes, can arange some deals with 5 star hotels, embasys and that type of thing. I cant get that with a Toyota. So its my comfort, comfort of my passangers and more quality work/rides coming my way. But its very demanding to keep it tip top thats for sure
German luxury brands used to be good. Not anymore. Famous "german engineering" got so overly complicated, everything just keeps breaking. And every repair is hella expensive too. VW is also affected.
Son in law is on the third battery pack in his first gen Prius. Engine still strong. It will probably out last the body as he is on the Island of Okinawa.
My brother in law has an '07 with 120,000 miles of daily stop start commute on the clock. The thing looks and runs like new and he has done nothing but routine maintenance to the vehicle in all that time. What's more, it still get's exactly the same fuel economy as the it did when it was brand new.
Hybrids do not *cold start* their engines every time. My 2001 Prius waits until it's COMPLETELY warmed up to shut off initially. Ironically, that helps the engine stay off longer and under heavier throttle scenarios.
yeah ive seen some teardown video of the earlier prius and it literaly had like a kind of hot water storage or a heating system for the engine for it to stay longer in operation.
By completely warmed up, you must mean more or less warmed up. However it's kind of nice that the Prius has a small container for "warm" engine coolant, which is insulated, and when turn off your car, the coolant gets pumped into, so that it doesn't completely cool down. :)
I have 168,000 miles on my Prius plug-in Hybrid. No problems at all. The "starting" is done with the electric motor, not with a starter. The Atkinson Cycle keeps the stresses on the pistons to a minimum.
And yet toyota hybrids are THE MOST reliable vehicles in toyota's fleet of options. I know people who have 15+ year old toyota hybrids that have 300k miles on them, no battery replacements, and basic oil changes every 10k miles. Zero issues.
@@garyandtricia1 What he is saying, is that you can go 300K miles in total and the ice engine will be fine, with all the starting and stopping, it's a 100% complete non issue.
@@garyandtricia1Most of them are running on the original ICE. I worked at Toyota for quite a bit, routinely see older hybrids with well over 300k and all original
How many 15 year old hybrids on road? It's far less than gasoline powered even adjusting for numbers. Even with perfectly fine engine, dead battery means throw away due to high repair cost and only 1 year warranty.
For cold or idle starts, Toyota addresses the first concern by spinning up the engine to about 1000 RPM w/ the hybrid motor-generator closer to the engine (MG1) before introducing fuel and spark. This, along w/ anti-drainback valves in the filters, helps generate oil pressure more quickly. They've also tried various methods of pre-warming or quickly warming the engine, from hot coolant stored in a thermos (2nd gen) to routing coolant through a radiator in the exhaust stream (3rd-gen), though arguably, both of those strategies were more for emissions than wear.
Pretty much every hybrid does that. It's wild doing a compression check on a hybrid. You disconnect the injectors and "start" the car. It spins away at 1000RPM while you compression check.
This almost certainly reduces the wear on the engine considerably in comparison to an ICE. An ICE is forced to immediately begin combustion to sustain itself. And it must run richer (least efficiently), and under higher load (because friction is greatest). This inefficient, significant load happens when parts are coldest - before thermal expansion creates clearances that the engine is designed to operate under. And internal temperature differences are greatest as well. There is no doubt that the hybrid system is actually dramatically LESS susceptible to engine wear upon "cold" start, for all the reasons you list. It's the ICE cars that stop their engine every time the vehicle stops moving that this video should be about.
Toyota also fires up 1 cylinder first, then the 2nd, 3rd and finally 4th cylinder so it's a smoother transition to running and not felt by the occupants and greatly reduces wear too. Not a fan of this video since it speaks more towards ICE than most hybrids. And if there were hybrids which caused these problems they should have been called out instead of lumping all together.
This guy is talking about problematic issues that don't really seem to affect there's most hybrids, so therefore this is all incorrectThis guy is talking about problematic issues that don't really seem to affect most hybrids, so therefore this is all incorrect. .
Only if you hear the part that said buy Hybrid oil, not just motor oil. I don't recall seeing Hybrid oil at the store but I still have an ICE and look for 10 w 30 .
1:40 @1:40 Electric oil pumps are already a thing. So the parts can get lubrication before they start moving. Most of the issues raised in this video can be mitigated already. Edit: Cars that come with them aren't as common as I thought. So it's not an issue that is mitigated often. Also I first learned about cars with electric oil pumps when I heard of a rare car with an auxiliary electric oil pump. Had no idea they'd make cars with only an electric oil pump. But at least if it were a hybrid, you could have the engine turn off if the oil pump died and still be a le to drive to safety with no engine damage.
Yeah, this really comes off as FUD by oil companies. Real shame to see this channel be sabotaged by BS like this. Up there with seeing Mythbusters peeps shilling for Shell.
If it's an HEV you're only going a mile or so without the engine. If it's a PHEV then you might get home or to the mechanic, depending on the battery's state of charge.
My man has been hypnotized by Mobil 1 :( while all the challenges mentioned make Sense but they are not as major as explained. Besides that engineers also have taken these things into consideration while designing the engines.
The fact that it was taken into consideration is the point, this is payed advertising for mobile one bragging about how good they did making oil to help hybrids last longer, so as you said the engineers took it into consideration
1:53 "For a cold engine start-up" seems hyper critical here as the engine doesn't shut off until it is up to temp and 90% of the startups there after or on a warm engine
In a hybrid, you have a perfectly good battery, so why not a) heat the oil to operating temperature and b) pre-presurise to oil circuit with an electric oil pump? Is that thinking too hard for ice engineers? No, of course not, they WANT your engine to wear out.
@@carnonPL so true! Friend had a prius. Got it fully serviced. Just after the warranty expired suddenly there was an oil leak in the engine that required the whole engine to be removed at considerable cost.
Yep, and so pure ICE vehicles have this same problem or actually worse when they aren't reaching nominal operating temps and can't cook off moisture in the oil as at least most hybrids have electric oil and water pumps to pre-lube the engine and even warm up those fluids from the electric motors.
Still somewhat true, but nothing like back in the days of carburetors. Modern fuel injection does not wash down the cylinders with liquid gasoline like a carb did with the choke on. On short trips the choke may not have fully opened so raw gas was getting past the rings into the oil, resulting in upper cylinder wear (causing the common ridge at the top of the cylinder) and oil diluted with gas causing bearing wear.
Facts. And the hybrid with a relatively smaller engine will still be by far the smarter choice for a short trip car. This same issue plagues ICE engines that are too large to let themselves fully warm up.
@@garrettmillard525 Yeah, i drove an i30N back then and the engine just warmed up on my commute, but not so much in winter. Now i drive an teeny weeny i20 with a 1L motor and it is warm immediately.
Hybrids (at least the Prius), have electric oil pumps. These pumps are run before the engine is started, and generally while driving even if the engine is off. This almost completely avoids dry starts. I have not (yet) seen a non-hybrid that has an electric oil pump like this. Not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen one.
@@coryfogle5353 I think another comment mentioned the 2012 or 2013 and up are all electric oil pumps, so you're right that older Prius models have mechanical oil pumps.
Typical sucky 4 tard stroke POS that everything cars is obseesed with. i can stop and start my sled motor many times and it wont harm it. Whats up with these cars with all these issues.
My grandfather had a car for city driving, a big truck with a camper, and an SUV for hunting. It's honestly kinda foolish to have a single vehicle for everything if you can avoid it. Even a cheap used compact car for city driving will save you money and wear on your truck. It's absurd to see huge lifted pickups doing grocery runs with an empty bed. :/
@@garyandtricia1 Hard to tell but I know my Corolla Cross Hybrid I just got shows me the percentage of driving that was EV only. That usually sits around 65-70% when I turn the car off. Mine is the new 5th gen hybrid system, so it's probably more than his. I'd assume his would be around 50%, so 175-200K maybe?
Well, hybrid vehicles are in sell for about 20 years and are more popular than ever. I think that problems mentioned in this video were already solved by car manufacturers some time ago. Also generally I don't hear about hybrid vehicles breaking more often than gasoline only vehicles
It's more of a click bait video to steer the pot in favor of EVs.. it's been well documented that 20yrs old Prius 2 has been able to get well over 300-500k miles with minimal engine failure.
I'm pretty sure that the main reason my maverick gets lower mileage in the winter by a significant margin is that the engine almost never turns off. Pretty sure they made it such that it keeps itself warm enough to prevent excessive moisture accumulation.
most hybrid do that to keep the engine operation temperature, also if you turn on your heat, which is coming from coolants, the engine will keep the engine running to warm up the coolant, hence never got turn off
I think that's more for cabin heat, my 3rd gen Prius will do the same time. You could test by turning the heat off (once fully warmed up) and seeing if the engine will stop.
And this is why hybrids work best in spring and autumn. When too hot, more power is needed to run AC and batteries are less efficient. When too cold, the engine needs to operate more to keep itself and you warm enough, and while the battery is more efficient, a cold battery can't deliver enough power, and at freezing temperature also wears out faster - so it's important to keep the battery warmer too! Ironically, most batteries are happiest at temperatures that humans are happiest at, which is why my hybrid's battery temperature management is just a fan to bring air from the cabin to the battery - because any temperature range you've set in the cabin is within its comfortable operating limits. It's cheaper and your battery is always as comfortable as you are, so you intuitively know how your vehicle is feeling based on how you feel even if you're not the kind of person to ever think about this.
Another big reason that applies to all cars: lower temps increase charge density and can improve efficiency, which is good, but lower temp air is also denser to drive through, so drag is higher. The former is is first degree effect, but the latter is a second degree effect.
I just traded my 2012 Prius for a new 2024 Prius. My wife loved the car, so I got her another one. 99K miles and got $8K for trade. You can't go wrong with a Prius.
just a warning about those new ones (assuming its the PHEV prime) i would highly recommend driving on engine at least once every 2 weeks. it is often easy to go a full month without using the engine. This causes many engine problems with both the primes and all other PHEVs. What usually happens is people don't use the engine enough and the head gaskets start drying up. You also want to do the same thing with the battery too. Usually not really an issue if its a daily driver but if you don't drive the cars for weeks at a time the battery will start getting voltage variation codes which will eventually make a replacement battery necessary.
@@ElMistroFerozI put a minimal of dollars in my delivery vehicles since I use them for work and they don't have much value since I bought them used. One is a hybrid. The highest expense is the tires & suspension wear. Even those I put off until they are thoroughly worn out. Since both vehicles are Japanese motors, all I really need to do is change the oil at a decent interval. Despite over 300,000 miles on one, it still has caramel colored oil. Just the odd serpentine belt or alternator or coil on plug needed every 100,000 mi or so. The starter took 300,000 mi to wear out with a ridiculous number of starts compared to most people since don't leave the car idling all the time on delivery work. I would have spent a lot more money if I would have followed the manufacturer chart that goes in the glove box.
Mine does really quick. I kid you not, a kilometer down the road the coolant it's up already. It's nuts. And it won't even use much petrol power when first started. It just keeps it at a high iddle and moves on electric in the first 30 seconds. Unless the battery is hot, that's when it basically has to use petrol to move until the battery cools off.
@@SoulTouchMusic93 Well mine, albeit it warms up quickly - but it still needs a few kms, the fuel consumption during the 'quick warm-up phase' is horrific. Horrific! I understand this is the way it's supposed to be, but it is so bad, that for a short trip, the avg. fuel consumption is not better than that of a 15-20 year old similar size ICE engine. After that fuel economy rapidly gets better and elevates to typical levels common for hybrids.
This video illustrates why the propulsion architecture of the Chevy Volt was such a brilliant idea. It operated as a pure EV for the first 40 miles or so before converting to a hybrid. The pure EV range was enough to satisfy 80-90% of the average driver’s trips, so no frequent ICE cold start’s incurring the problems you describe. If driven beyond the pure EV range, the ICE is fired up to turn a generator to develop the average electrical power necessary for propulsion. So on long trips the ICE tends to operate in a steady state fashion. In stop and go traffic the ICE does shut off frequently but the vehicle launches in EV mode before restarted the ICE smoothly and quietly with one of its two motor/generators. It’s important to note that in hybrid mode, once started the ICE is on most of the time and therefore warmed up and well lubricated.
Meh- sort of. Volt was based on the Cruze, but when it was introduced, after the Prius, it actually cost MORE than buying a Prius AND a Cruze! There are claims that it actually cost GM DOUBLE the retail price to build each car. So... maybe there are less expensive solutions.
The wife and I love our Volt. It charges overnight on 110v. We never plug in to a chargepoint, too much trouble. Just gas it up and go. We get phenomenal mileage. No trouble yet in six years. The one quibble I have is cargo capacity and the liftover rear hatch. Not bad, but was used to the Prius before I got sideswiped/totalled.
The Prius is a gas car with a battery backup/helper. The Volt is an electric car with a gas backup. While seemingly similar, that's just it, similar. The common problem with both is keeping that oil warm so when it's needed, the engine is not "ice cold metal".
I guess they had to kill the volt because it cost GM 3 times what they could sell it for. Probably better to buy the Cruise diesel with a manual trans for a 1/3 the price! GM killed both. Now everything they make is a gas guzzler or garbage or both.
I am a mechanical engineering student, and I drive a 2019 Ford Fusion Hybrid. My main commute is 85 miles in each direction, with about 90% of those miles being pure highway, so I have no real concern about the oil getting hot enough to mitigate the water and fuel dilution problems. That being said, now I want to get some gauge to show me the oil and coolant temperatures for my shorter drives just to observe for myself how they change for my specific situations.
In many fords the instrument cluster can be set to display parameters. Hold the odometer select button when you turn the key on. If the display changes your car is one of Ford cars that does. Cycle through for something labeled "OILT" or similar and it will tell you the temperature. I've had a couple of Ford Escape Hybrids. The temps are not an issue. If the engine starts cooling down, it will startup long before the temp gets to where condensation would be a problem.
My man... Your telling me that your full two way commute to school and back is 170 miles? Man, I hope you scheduled your classes in such a way that you only have to do such 2 days a week max (or even 1 day if some of your classes are online.) And here I thought I had it rough with my 1 hour commute to Uni.
I just bought my first hybrid a 2024 Maverick, what a wonderful truck! I have been averaging about 45mpg per tank of fuel!!! That’s actually 3mpg better than the 42mpg EPA rating for city driving. I realized pretty quickly that it’s probably not good to start driving down the road in electric mode, and then the engine turn on under load while being cold from sitting overnight. Now I turn the gas engine on, and let it run for a minute before driving. I also put the truck in sport mode for the first 5 minutes or so, until the engine warms up. In sport mode the truck will not go into electric mode, once the engine is warmed up, I switch it over to eco mode to maximize electric driving. I have periodically checked the oil cap for that milky condensation, but it’s always very clean, so this method seems to be working well. I have been using Valvoline hybrid vehicle motor oil, to help suspend any condensation that could develop from hybrid operating conditions. Thank you for all your informative videos!!!
That's good to check the cap for gunk, because if you get mayonnaise in your engine, you'll need to put a dry, ham sandwich under the valve cover, to absorb it.
We had a 2010 Prius that died due to engine wear & tear in 2022 at 180,000 miles. I always thought it was odd that the engine was what went first, but after watching this it now makes more sense as to some of the stresses it was dealing with.
I've been a fan of hybrid systems since I learned diesel locomotives are hybrid. I'm glad to see Toyota moving in this direction, especially the Camry.
@ArnoldsDesign Although, locomotives use diesel engines to power generators that power electric motors to power the wheels. The Diesel engine never directly powers the wheels, like is the case with a hybrid.
@@mattbrown1724 Yes, that imo is how a hybrid system should be set up. Those trains can move a ton of cargo about 500 miles on one gallon of fuel. It's unreal.
I wonder what Mobile 1's aim here is given how many and how long hybrids have been running reliably on the road. Missing the forest for the trees video.
@@jamesphillips2285 Tell that to GM/Ford/Kia who tried rushing the EV market. Hybrids have always been the answer and Toyota has been on top of that segment.
@@Argedis Toyota was the early entrant into the EV market. Their RAV4 EV was sued out of existence after Chevron bought up the NiMH battery patents. I believe the Tesla roadster used an overly complicated battery pack, with hundreds of commodity 18650 Li-ion batteries, as a patent work-around.
Good question! I think the result of much lower cylinder pressures really helps, these typically aren't engines that are pushing the limits. Again, most wear comes from start-ups, so the electric assist is helpful in that the engine runs less, but a good question as to whether that's enough to offset start-up wear.
@@EngineeringExplainedAlso they tend to work at a near fixed operating point, keeping the revs/load near the optimal efficiency island on the BSFC map, so the engine is less exposed to varying demand, apart from the entire start/stop cycle of course
The original hybrid, the Prius, is one of the longest lasting vehicles on the road. There are plenty of Prius taxis with over 500,000 miles on their original drivetrain.
@@keim3548There are several taxi companies that have done white paper studies know it all! If you want proof pay for the white paper data. The Prius e-CVT has gone over a million miles. If you don’t want to believe me keep on being a bone head with your head buried in the sand
Mobil 1 sponsoring this video and having you feature their oil, when other oils might perform as well or better kinda gives me the Icks. I look to your channel for unbiased engineering reviews.
Just FYI, Mobil 1 isn't the only company that develops/sells a motor oil specific to hybrids. It's an understood challenge with understood solutions. I have a ton of oil related videos on my channel, and they've repeatedly lent their expertise to help answer the common questions. That said, I completely get the skepticism - I try to keep anything sponsored fact based, rather than subjective, so you don't really have to question my intent. We're all here to learn!
Exactly, I do respect actually working engineers such as this guy, but when a company such as (Exxon)Mobil, whose main revenue stream is selling oil, is sponsoring a video that focuses on the negatives of hybrid vehicles (even though constructive criticism against their failings is totally valid), how can I trust him to cover the topic impartially when Mobil has every excuse to have hybrids and other BEVs be insanely harshly criticized so that gas vehicles are still sold, and thus are dependent on oil (ideally (Exxon)Mobil's) to function?
I used to work at Walmart Auto Care Center, and we had many prius's with over 300k, some with 350k, and still chugging along. Some were better maintained than others, but all still sounded fairly good compared to other cars with 300k. On an unrelated note, we had a Ford Explorer with 300k miles that had probably 12 quarts of oil in a poor v6
Toyota is a clear leader in hybrids. The oil they recommend is 0W-16 in the 2024 cars. The manual states that 0W-20 may be used, but at the next oil change go back to 0W-16. Toyota has branded oil with formulation specific to their engines.
Is it true Toyota oil is specifically formulated for their engines, where is this information would love to read about it? I believe it is made by Mobil.
Piston rings are the no.1 source of wear, this has been reduced on modern engines with thinner rings, crankshaft offset from bore, better oil and pump designs. Start/stop is on most new vehicles because of emissions and fuel consumption.
idk if I believe that, hybrids aren't particularly known for engine failure. in fact the Prius is known for making it hundreds of thousands of miles with no major issues. Maybe it's "hard on" the engine in a way that doesn't contribute to typical engine failure scenarios
I got rid of my 2006 RX Hybrid with 200k miles and still ran without issues, and still had great MPG. Toyota perfected the art of Hybrid cars which is why they didn’t care to push for EVs the way that others did. You bring up common issues, but also issues that were solved at least by Toyota a long time ago. So this is a bit misleading.
I remember on my old aircooled VW Beetle, if I did lots of short trips during winter, a certain amount of very mayonnaise like sludge would form on the inside of the oil filler cap. It would disappear after a long drive.
1:30 in I've got the solve already. Electric oil pump, constantly circulated with a valve to allow it to be used as a "cooler" for the hybrid system in order to keep the oil (and to a point the engine) temps up. I'll leave the fuel problem to someone else.
@@kipkipper-lg9vl yeah, and get way more other nonsense. Modern diesel engines are overcomplex, overcomplicated and still emit much more particulate matter and NOX than a gas hybrid engine could ever achieve. And the manufacturers have to deal with this crap ... well, or they don't, like VW. This stuff kills people. Stop it.
Our 2013 C-Max Energi (plug in hybrid) is still going strong with over 300,000kms on it. The high voltage battery is down to less than 50% capacity, but the engine has been perfect, except for one minor issue... When the car was new and had about 3500km on it, white sludge started building up in the engine and on the inside of the oil cap (the same concern Jason mentioned in this video). I checked the engine temperature using an IR gun and discovered that in cold weather (-20°C) in the city, the engine wasn't getting above 160°F. It turned out that the thermostat's vent hole (to help air escape after a fill or flush) was too big for the engine load in the city. A Ford TSB indicated a new thermostat without the air bleed hole and a different air bleed procedure (basically let the engine warm up with the engine coolant's cap off) was all that was needed to get rid of the white sludge. With the engine now getting to 195°F, it was now warm enough to evaporate the water from the oil. I've often wondered if Ford did anything else to make sure these engines can handle the constant starting and stopping. Whether they did or didn't, these 2.0 liter Atkinson cycle engines seem to be pretty bulletproof.
11:56 300-400k miles is not much.Older Priuses and hybrid Corollas (also Auris) used as taxis have like 450-600k miles on them with the factory battery! Here in Poland a lot of Priuses are also converted to run LPG, which is 2x cheaper per liter than a regular gas.
The key to making these cars last is to drive them a lot. It keeps the battery healthy. If you have a long commute to work everything, hybrid is the way to go.
@@ManuelFresh100especially if you are frequently in traffic. The benefits of hybrid are maximized if you have to slow down / speed up frequently during your commute
Ha, good catch! They actually have a few different products depending on the viscosity grade - there's an advanced fuel economy product specifically for hybrids with even lower grades. In fact, they have a 0W-8 (yes, 8!) specifically for some Toyota hybrids!
@@PhaseSkater Not true, the manual makes it clear that : “If SAE 0W-16 is not available, SAE 0W-20 oil may be used. However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-16 at the next oil change.” So another downside is that you can only use 0W-20 once and only if you don’t have a better option.
@@PhaseSkater Exactly. I don't have a hybrid but a 2015 Yaris 1.3L 90,000m...i use 0-20 for winter & 5-30 for summer here in the UK....over kill some may say. Sometimes i use 5-20 for winter if there's a sale,but i always use good oil & change at 6 months (Garage service with oil filter then 6 months later i just do the oil,no filter) I do short miles maybe no more than 2,500m a year. I will start to use Magnatec soon 5-20 or 0-30 all year round as prices are decent i noticed.
@@swimmerboy172Though the Toyota manual is a bit ambiguous, too: "An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."
Toyota hybrids mitigate some of the startup oiling issues by using the motor generator (MG1) to spin up the engine to the idle rpm before adding fuel and spark. While you still have the problem of cold oil, at least you don't have the rich fuel mixture dissolving the oil film from the cylinder walls.
I was worried that there was going to be some anti hybrid propaganda, but you're a top notch creator and you actually talk about how the problems are dealt with. Hybrids have been statistically more reliable than ice only counterparts including even the same model. The hate for start stop features are completely unfounded especially for Toyota because they assure you your starter will last 384k starts before it'll throw a code. They're great vehicles that end up saving you money on the back end.
Hybrid owner here. You briefly touched on the role of pressure in your video. In reality, water like all fluids, has a pressure-temperature phase diagram, so the picture is a little more complicated than what you have presented. Most of what you discussed about the properties of water vs temperature applies to water at one atmosphere. The pressures inside the combustion chamber vary all over the place, so that needs to be taken into account as well. A lot of the water exits the system in the exhaust gasses but just how much was not discussed either.
Still have to be careful with the 12V battery. They are even smaller in EVs as they are not running a starter. At least most modern EVs actually charge the 12V when you've plugged in to AC charge over night. Some early EVs did not. The car actually had to be on and the HV battery connected for the 12V to get charged. Most common reason for road side assistance for EVs in winter here in Norway is a dead 12V battery apparently.
Yeah, this is why I went from gas car to EV. It was a good call. I still think hybrids are good for many people. Plug-in hybrids could be a good balance.
Battery in Prius is 80 times smaller than a Tesla yet it still gets half the mpg rating. Not bad. Also batteries are pretty nasty to create, dumping a lot of emissions into the world. Really an EV may never be better for the world than an efficient hybrid. We won't be converting our grid to clean-ish energy for decades more.
I went the other way, from Tesla MY to new Camry. So nice not to worry about astonishing depreciation, very high insurance and expensive out of warranty repairs. Tesla was crazy fast though
motorcycle oil, it's typically designed for 4-stroke engines that are not water cooled. Meaning higher temperatures, an revs . They also make oil specifically for small engines like lawn mowers and all of the ratings I.e. "sae" are for different types of engines@@NotOftenPoliteGuy
Maybe an auxiliary electric oil pump on a separate loop isolated from the gear driven oil pump could help. Maintain some amount of oil pressure in the engine before start up , and use brushless efficient motors to drive it. Can’t imagine it would take away from the efficiency too much.
After months of vacillating between a ICE & Hybrid. I go with a Toyota hybrid. I see the tag line and my heart sinks. I'm back to being ok. I can live with 2-300.000 miles. I also follow a philosophy of, oil is cheap engines are expensive. Change it every 5000
My God. Probably the best product placement and advertising, like ever. A trusted, extremely knowledgeable, and loved youtube creator with nearly 4 million subs talking detailed tech and engineering info on his expert topic - outlining issues and relating that back to how the product addresses them. No flashy or gimmicky extras, just facts and data. I don't own a hybrid, but I want to go out and buy Mobile 1 just to admire it!
Not at all! It has now had over 500k views, most probably being car enthusiasts/owners who have watched this guys vids before and like/trust him. Do you know how many companies would just die to get their product in front of 500k almost perfectly targeted customers, 90% of whom probably watched the whole thing because they are engaged with the engineering content? It's god level marketing.
In Montana, folks keep their oil warm by plugging in the oil warmer in their crankcase. There is a little hitching Post outside your house where you plug in the engine every night and then when you wake up in the morning you turn the electricity on from inside the house and this starts the oil warming up and you can have another warmer on your antifreeze that will warm up the antifreeze. So then after your cup of coffee you go out there and everything's warm you start it up. 😊😊😊😊
As much as I freaking love my Prius, and genuinely think given the age of it and so many others still on the roads that Toyota has sufficiently mitigated the issues mentioned here, this video confirms my opinion that Edison Motors design of a Diesel generator charging a battery pack for a fully Electric drivetrain makes loads of sense for getting the best possible performance out of synergizing both systems.
A fully series hybrid is by nature much less efficient. Losses in a generator, two converters and a motor is much higher than in a gearbox. TRW invented the power split device initially used in the Prius and now used by just about every hybrid out there. They send most of the power through just gearing at freeway speeds.
Pure EVs now have plenty enough range, excellent charging networks (mostly Tesla), and competitive prices too (above ~$35K). There's not much real need for hybrids anymore.
If its hard on engines toyota did a hell of a job on the prius. I've never seen a car that's lasts so long. I've worked on some with 400k on them and still in great shape
My dad lived a 1/4 miles from work. He drives his SUV there and back and nowhere else often. He doesn't really drive anywhere else. He thinks he can still change the oil at 5k miles. I told him Atleast once a year minimum. Probably should go 6 months instead. Oil is cheap.
It comes as no surprise. Hybrids also use smaller engines which need to work harder. Many of my workmates chose hybrids as company cars as they didn't want to commit to full electric. They are only getting 30-35 mpg(UK) long term. Yet the 2.0 diesels we used to have did 68mpg(UK). Personally I had a 2004 E220 diesel, it did 52 mpg(UK) on my daily commute, later I had a 2014 E300 hybrid, same engine and only 42 MPG(UK) on the same commute. I went full EV for my company car now, but only due to the tax breaks. Still have a V8 for smiles at the weekend, and of course, the Cortina with 1.6 pinto.
you talkin nonsense, priuses do 70 mpg in the city , even a 20 years old prius do 55-60 mpg in the city. a bmw 320d does 38 mpg in the city. im a delivery driver drive 150 miles a day in the city had al sorts of cars but so far my current prius is the only car it didnt break down has 250k miles. been england romania twice already with no issues. had 3 older bmw s in the past 2 petrol one diesel they all broke ,had to scrap 2 of them.
Meanwhile my Hyundai hybrid gets 70 city and 90-95 mpg on the highway. Everyone talks about Toyota. Sure the build quality and customer service is better, but Toyota hybrids get worse mpg across the board compared to Hyundai hybrids. Also shorter warranties and higher Msrp. But brand name means a lot to new buyers
Warm-up actually does not take longer for hybrids because a simple temperature switch prevents them from shutting down the engine before it has reached operating temperature. Even the first model Prius already had that, which my parents drove for nearly ten years, and it never gave any engine trouble. Empty battery - yes. Exacerbated by parents not understanding the warning light for this condition, or that it didn't have a reverse gear but was reversed by the electric motor, which doesn't work if the battery is empty. Climate control leaking and being too expensive to repair - yes. But no engine trouble. Ever. Also the fuel savings are mainly a result of the engine using the Atkinson cycle, which it can because the motor makes up for the torque deficit in the low rev range. But hey.
Why does Toyota recommend 0w16 and 0w12 in their engines but Mobile 1 only makes the hybrid vehicle oil as 0w20? Does Mobile 1 recommend ignoring Toyota’s recommendation for oil weight?
Toyota owner manual says you can use 0w-20 if you want. That’s their recommendation. Clearly you don’t own one. The 0-16 is suggested for “ maximum gas mileage in cold environments. “. Their words
At least in the current era, we need more plug-in hybrids. They're the best of both worlds, and the perfect solution during the transition period to electric. I think electric is still the future. We just need to develop solid state batteries to get there.
The running costs of hybrids suck compared to EVs though. TCO is much lower with EVs. Unless you're doing consistently long journeys very frequently they're not worth it. Even taxi drivers are usually better off with EVs.
It was proven so many times that Costco branded synthetic oils are no inferior to brand names oils that clueless people are wasting their hard earned $$$ on 😀😀😀
@EngineeringExplained OK, but then why is this a video about hybrids if the lesson is to maintain your engine (which is way below your personal paygrade in my opinion. )
Is this a sarcastic post? If you're really concerned, get a used oil analysis test. If you buy a quality vehicle and maintain it regularly, most people chuck the vehicle before the engine gives out.
In Engineering it is never a win-win game. Something always has to be sacrificed in order to other thing get improved. Excellent Video as Always. Greetings from Brazil.
Yeah, if you put your fun summer car in storage over the winter put in some premium fuel. If it's a very old car also fill up the tank completely to the brim.
Taxi drivers in Australia just love the hybrid Camry. They always talk about how reliable they are over a long time. 3 to 4 hundred thousand KM and over examples all around Australia are still going strong. Seems like Toyota has nailed it.
Wow! I've been subbed for a long time and this video was awesome! I've never considered the issues with water in engines like this, and each time I went "what about ___?" in my head, you answered it! Stellar video, The egg/mayo info was a bonus!
@@appleforever6664 Oil consumption alone is expected and necessarily isn't a reason to get an oil change. That's why people top off their oil in between oil changes. Synthetic oils are made to last 10k plus miles. The main thing you would want to worry about is how dirty the oil/oil filter is.
My 2014 Toyota Camry hybrid is at 205K and runs like it did when it rolled off the lot. Besides having to replace suspension components the only thing I've had to replace is the 12v battery in 2024, it lasted 10 years. When I replaced the 12v battery and the computer reset all of the learned trim values for the engine it started immediately and it didn't shake or show any signs of having to relearn those values, it just worked and was as smooth as it has always been.
The fact that so so many Prius cars of yester-year are still running strong, with mega-miles on them, leads one to believe that most synthetic name brand engine oils will do a good job of protecting the gasoline engine portion of the Prius. My feeling is this, ...change your engine oil and filter using quality oils and filters frequently. By frequently, I mean at minimum every 5,000 miles or 6-months, whichever arrives first. It's just good ju-ju and the "Internal-Combution-Engine-Gods" will thank you by allowing you to drive all the way to Valhalla !
*freed from the stress of a 9-5 job and built a 230k savings in one month, I now have a good house and cleared off my mortgage-* *thank you, Stacey Neal Brooks*
Nice meeting people who also work with Stacey, she's the only one I could trust, she got me proflts of 14,OOO with a little start up of 2,5OO and ever since she has been delivering.
Stacy Brooks has really set the standard for others to follow, we love her here in Ontario Canada as she has been really helpful and changed lots of life's
I remain eternally grateful to Stacey as well, for her efforts that got me to this point, finally paid off my mortgage and all debts, what more could l've asked for. She changed my life for good.
2016 Lexus ES 300h with 292k miles and still going strong! No leaks, no oil consumption, no issues at all! I'll never buy another vehicle brand if I can help it!
Yes it does because the main bearings and crank bearings do not have oil pressure up to a few seconds into the cranking and starting procedures. If you have oil pressure the bearings do not actually touch the shafts when you have no oil pressure you get wear, every time you start an engine you're going to get a small amount of wear because you do not have oil pressure yet, more starts means more wear. In industrial engines we have a pre-lubrication pump that sends oil up into the journals and bearings before the engine even rotates, and gives you oil pressure because the engines are so big and heavy that they cause extreme amounts of where when there is no oil on the journals and the cranks are so heavy that they push the oil out from underneath them and you do not have a film to protect the bearings without oil pressure
I think it's common to assume it's hard on the battery/starter-motor, but obviously these are sized appropriately, and as for the battery, most start/stop systems will only activate if the battery charge is high enough. Otherwise, the engine remains on as the battery continues to charge.
Many people saying “but Prius is so reliable”, That’s why only Toyota/Honda are being reliable with hybrid vehicles because they have so much experience doing this, meanwhile Hyundai/Kia/Jeep is already having endless power train failures on their hybrids.
I don't know about all manufacturer's hybrids, but Toyota's are ridiculously reliable. Even relative to other Toyota's, their hybrids are extremely reliable. For instance, Prius's go forever and are cheaper to run than their non-hybrid counterparts. That said, my Chevy Volt is a piece of s#!t. It's 6 years old and the transmission just blew. So even though I vastly prefer driving it due to its instant torque, I've swapped it out for a much more boring to drive Prius (which brings the bonus of literally triple the cargo space for road trips!)
@@MaxPwr176did you read the print under Toyota stating that? It also says based on climate and driving conditions. 0w16 for gentle driving in cold weather and best mpgs and 0w-20 for more aggressive summer driving
Amsoil (The First in Synthetics) carries 2 varieties of 0W-16 100% Synthetic Motor Oil available in a Hybrid formula and also their top-grade line called their Signature Series (SS). The SS does everything the Hybrid does, but even better in 9 categories! I use only the Amsoil SS in my 2016 Camry Hybrid and I could be happier.
Today's modern Toyota Hybrids are engineered to get up to operating temperature very quickly, much much quicker than a typical gas-only vehicle. In addition, once the ICE starts up, it rarely shuts down until operating temperature has been reached (literally 2-3 minutes from stone cold on a chilly morning when driving it). Thus, these vehicles operate below full operating temperature very much less than an average gas-only vehicle, certainly not more.
2 дня назад
Wife's Yaris Cross warms up insanely fast. Best winter car ever (Finland).
Jason, I love your videos, but I really don't understand how you can say that Mobil oil is guaranteed to "work" for a minimum of 15k miles, and then double down on that with multiple statements ensuring people that that's true.. Anyone who knows anything about cars knows you should change your oil more frequently, regardless of the type of car / engine / oil. That was just pure shilling of Mobile...gotta say I'm disappointed. Just because a manufaturer states that something is true, doesn't mean it really is, and that they haven't found a reasonable explanation / loophole in the law that allows them to state these things as facts. For example, BMW says you don't need to change oil for 25,000km, even in M cars, only so they can satisfy some "green" regulations. Not changing your oil for that long is just...absurd. And I know 100% you're aware of this. So why are you, basically, telling people not to change their oil for 15,000 miles? That's just malicious behavior. People, change your oil every 6-7k miles. Your engine is going to thank you, and it's really not that expensive. @engineeringexplained Have you *ever* not changed oil in any of your cars for 15,000 miles? Be honest.
My dad changed his oil every 30,000km and the car went 400,000km without a single issue (the car was stolen and he would still drive it today otherwise). I changed my oil every 30,000km on my old car, too, which I sold after 200,000km. Not a single related issue. In fact at 150,000km the top had to came off for a coolant leak. Wear was measured and the engine was like new. The claim is definitely not absurd to me.
