When I was a teenager back in the 60s my father told me of a time, in the late 1920s or early 1930s when the local quarry sacked all its workers on a Friday afternoon and then set up recruitment the following Monday at a much reduced rate of pay. People had little choice but to sign up again because there was no other work. Unions fought over the years for rights for workers to prevent such exploitation. People who have benefited from those rights now take them for granted but without constant effort they will be lost. P & O anyone?
Alas, when people grow up accustomed to certain rights and freedoms it is easy for them to take them for granted yet be completely unaware of how these rights and freedoms came to be. See also the attacks on human rights and the resurge of authoritarianism.
Here in US Reagan's presidency foretold EVERY disaster we now face. First breaking the air traffic controller union then raging like COVID through every safety net, firewall built over 247 years.
Beyond depressing. As an NHS worker myself, the last time staff went on strike I was the only one on my team of 20 that walked out. My team leader asked me the day before if I was going to strike, I explained I would call in the morning to inform them on my decision, the response, "that's inconvenient as were trying to provide a service"!!. And And And............. I am now looking at being medically retired as I have had my health destroyed by covid and by lack off PPE, and terrible safety protocols during the pandemic . At least my UNION is doing everything they can to protect me.
@@jamesbutler1949 James do you know about the Vaccine injuries and have you been injected yourself. I don't wish you no harm but the injection program will be your last decision you make for yourself .
I am seriously starting to believe that some people's perception of reality is built upon unicorns and rainbows. To hear working class people argue against their own interests is deeply troublesome. Worse, it's a colossal dis-service to the preceding generations who fought for the rights we enjoy today.
It's a ghastly demonstration of the power of the media, that's been going on most of my life. And the nearest we've got to an alternative is Starmer and his Blairite careerists.
It is fine until you need a knee replacement at a later age and you get sacked for taking time off. Suggesting workers in the same workplace cannot group together and care for themselves and their colleagues.
@@deanrogers6028 If your employer rejects your requests for better pay or conditions, your last resort is to withdraw your labour. This confronts your employer with the reality of what your permanent withdrawal of your labour would mean for their business. If you scab, you may gain short-term relief from unemployment, but you are undermining the position of labour in general. You are accepting conditions of employment that others have found unacceptable in the long term. Are you independently wealthy? If not, consider your position.
I often wonder what sort of working class person votes for someone like Boris Johnson who, to me, absolutely and clearly does not have their interests at heart at all. This guy, apparently.
James: "Who is going to make sure you don't get fired for being poorly" Caller: "My employer" Me (after playing it four times): "He said what? Is this guy for real?"
These are the people who take for granted all the benefits and think they just happen naturally. Why would employers abuse their employees just to make a few extra bucks? It's not like that's what they did for YEARS before unions.
@@davidty2006 The "chimney sweeps" in England were children because they could fit up the chimneys. They were basically child slaves, and the practice lasted 200 years, from shortly after the 1666 fire, to the late 1800's. Children as young as 4 were "bought" from poor parents by a "master" sweeper. They received no wages, but often died of cancer or other ailments directly related to their "work".
Honestly, point these people to how Amazon treats its workers in the U.S. because, while there are a lot of union protections afforded to those workers unions are desperately needed to ensure protections are afforded, because I can assure you individual representation means nothing, every Amazon Associate (the entry level position) has complained that they need some kind of break, or exception so they can go to the bathroom without it negatively affecting their rates, here in Southern Arizona where the warehouse would get upwards of 85 degrees away from the machinery (and upwards of 95 while at a work station) people constantly complained about it and were practically begging management all the way up to the guy who managed the whole building to bring the temperature down especially for those working 12 hr shifts in these conditions, or the copious amount of other health and safety issues we face... There is an Amazon Union in the U.S. just one for one location, Arizona you can be fired for attempting to unionize and it's legal for that company to do it so it wont be coming here, but if every state that offers protections for workers who want to unionize does it then the likelihood of it being passed to those in Republican led state legislatures like my state greatly increases.
I think it’s about time now that every person who works and pay taxes should join a union to protect ourselves against a greedy employers. Don’t forget the employers have their trad union which is the Conservative party protecting them all the way. Get together and be strong as a team.
These are the types of people who constantly vote against our collective interest not realizing they are voting against their best interest at the same time. Jesus Christ 🤦🏾♂️
When companies put you on disciplinary action for having time off for cancer treatment is beyond disgusting - I have seen people affected by this and were lucky to have their unions get involved. Thank goodness they exist!!
@@l_m9494 it was disciplinary action for management of attendance, taking a lot of time off work for sickness. Unfortunately it was due to cancer but that didn’t stop management from not using their discretion and continued along the disciplinary route. The union got involved and saved that person from further aggravation.
@@adee4507 that seems odd. But then you also cant pay somone indefinitely just because they get sick is there not a social welfare where a person can go on sick pay if they are too sick to work?
My grandad always used to say "Empty vessels make the most noise." This caller is the definition of that. It would be funny if it wasn't absolutely soul destroying.
Absolute truth James, every benefit that working people have,( weekends off,holidays with pay,sick pay, tea break,safety in the work place, protective equipment,) none of this was given through the the kindness of employers,it was achieved by the unions, and sadly people have forgotten that and need to be reminded every day,
"Do you know where you'd be happy? 1852!" A perfect response and end to this call. It is shocking at how little so many know about the role of unions in securing the rights workers have enjoyed for over one hundred years.
Did he think you negotiate a contract after you’ve got the job? Employer: nope, we don’t agree to those terms, you’re fired. But…, But…, You can’t…, I’ve got a con… what are pleb
Brilliant. Workers many do not get it at all. If have to work to live regardless of status you are a worker. Job today gone tomorrow. Take nothing for granted. Never doff your cap to Tories, big corporates etc do nothing for you. All employment rights you have, everyone of them have and are brought about from and by unions. Thank them. Wannabe Thatcher and wannabe PM Liz Truss will take away what Tories name Red Tape and they mean shred workers rights, working conditions and pay etc. Working rights are part of human rights and the Tories can't wait to tear it up Unions have to win 2022/3 choice off latter or welcome Victorian Times.
Thats why they demonise the unions, and brainwash people into believing that they just want to wreck the country, its all part of their strategy to create a class war, then stand back and blame everyone else. ✌️😎✌️
I have met people like the caller, They are tough on the left, hard supporters of capitalism while it applies to others. Once the wind turn into their direction they are all for workers rights.
I knew a lady in the states like that. She was especially dead against free healthcare and education, anything ‘socialism’ without understanding the word at all. Then she got cancer. She lost her job as she couldn’t work. Her treatments cost so much her entire life savings (she had been well off enough to have some) were gone including her kids’ college funds and they ended up homeless! What saved her life? Go fund me.
It's sad...like a growing percentage of right wingers he has absolutely no idea what he believes...he just knows what groups his tribe doesn't like...the details are trivial.
It was 60 years ago but my father (a joiner / carpenter) used to be laid off by his employer at Christmas to avoid having to pay him holiday pay and in the new year he was reinstated to his old job with no compensation or assistance ! He was paid by the hour and would regularly work an extra 4 hours a day (called a half shift) making 12 hours a day !
How foolish this guy sounded. I’d have loved to see his face as he realised how clever he wasn’t. He totally embarrassed himself with his absolute lack of understanding.
@@andydudley1775 agreed. I get the “sympathy for the conned” thing but it’s about time people have a mirror held up to themselves as coddling stupidity is how we got here in the first place.
Excellent! Trade unions came into existence because without them employers walked all over staff. The idea that today, with an even greater drive to make money for shareholders and bosses, things would be any better is delusional. Strikes happen, not because individual workers can negotiate a decent deal, but because they can't.
What really makes me angry is the idea that some people seem to have that the union makes people to go on strike. They lack the understanding that this is a decision from a ballot of the workforce. How can so many be so ignorant of this whole area?
@@warweezil2802 The anti-union propaganda is astonishing. The whole challenge for the Right is to get ordinary people to vote away their police, nurses, doctors, etc and leave themselves worse off. Incredibly, it clearly works!
@@danteshydratshirt2360 quite right, the National Union of Mineworkers were labeled by Thatcher as “the enemy within” this was repeated by her propaganda supporting newspaper rags of the Sun, the Mail and the express. The real enemy of this country is the corrupt Tory criminals led by Johnson. Despicable mobsters, who like to paaar-ty when they tell us we can’t see our dying relatives. Have Sunny garden parties when we couldn’t attend funerals of the people we loved. Only “Enemy within” is the self interest riddled Tory party. They should be in Prison, Not in Power!
Exactly! You can't ask for a decent pay rise because it will push up inflation. So basically your standard of living falls year on year, how is that fair. The rail companies are charging extortionate fairs so they should be able to pay more. And maybe give the greedy bosses less. How someone can be justified to be paid millions or 100,s of 1000,s is beyond me.
Let’s hope that one thing that comes out of the appalling behaviour of the Tories to trade union officials is that people actually learn something about them.
@David Young very nasty unions trying to keep workforces from loosing jobs, staying safe and getting somewhat pleasant terms and conditions such as sick pay, maternity leave and reasonable pay. Nasty, nasty unions. Maybe the rmt will pave the way for others to stand up to this government and say enough is enough. Maybe you’ll benefit from it.
The trouble is that there are millions of deluded individuals like this one who think that somehow they have personally and individually achieved a great deal for themselves.
@@michaelgoode9555 "I'll negotiate". Yeah because they would happily negotiate with him annual leave when they can hire anyone else with no annual leave 😂 These guys need to do some research on what employment used to be like before we had these rights. They taught it in my school in Humanitarian class didn't they do that with everyone?
@@agt155 So that prevents him from having the right opinion,how many torys went to private schools.Its not a difficult question is it?Are you opposed to workers having the right to a safe workplace?
It’s amazing when people who are arguing against unions continually bring up rights and employment laws that were fought for and won by workers unions.
@@deanrogers6028 you think things such as maternity leave, health and safety at work act, sick pay, union consultation on redundancy etc all came about because employers wanted to give money away?
@@mcdon2401, I object strongly to union leaders being paid the sums they are paid off the backs of those they claim to represent. Unions are all for one and one for all unless you are high up in said unions where it is just greed on their part.
@@deanrogers6028 never said they were perfect, it's an imperfect world. But given the alternatives, you take part and try to fix the problems within as you go, or you go without and take your chances.
I can't understand why Britain can't see what this Gov't is doing to the working mans rights. And now there is no EU laws to protect workers rights yes we are back in the 1800s. The lack of comprehension of the dire straights workers rights are in in the UK is flabbergasting. When will they wake up?
@@honeybadger3855 if you want to make a point, it's best to actually make it. Standing there being all smug like you've got some sort of super secret you're not telling anyone, and I'm sorry if this comes as a shock so brace yourself for this, is NOT convincing. You've thrown out a random insult and make some sort of vague reference to stuff being different in other countries but you've not actually said anything. The sensible assumption there is: you have nothing. Show us otherwise or don't.
I've been a union rep for 10yrs I've negotiated for better pay and conditions, employees rights and benefits for my members and non members over this period. Unfortunately like this guy who are not a member of the union have gained of unions and the members hard work to stop employers exploitation. Believe me an employer would give you nothing if they legally could. That's why more workers need to become members of there union the bigger the resistance the stronger we are. It's not about power happy it's about looking after those that can't look after themselves. Well said James and thank you for sticking up for the unions.
I've retired last year but I honestly think management have had it easy for years and got rich off our labours. Nobody wants it to be like the 70s , nobody strikes for fun . The Tories will change labour laws from under your feet .
I despise people opposing unions and workers rights, the mainstream media coverage of the strike is so frustrating saying the strike is "causing misery", the workers drive the economy and the working class are going to need to fight for better conditions going forward
When I first started work in 1962 I had to work on Saturday for half day 07.30 to 12.00.. Regarding pension age, some jobs that don't require much physical effort retiring at over seventy will, for some be okay. For those whose worked all, or most of their working life in industry, heavy lifting...'hard physical graft' in fact your pretty much done by the time your 65, for many before that age..Many didn't reach that pension age, others, like my father received a miserly pension for two years before he died...worn out by overwork..
It is sad that there are so many people, me included until I was about 25, that believe unions and union action is a bad thing. I am not saying that unions are perfect but nothing gets done without disrupting a few people (workers rights, women's suffrage, civil rights movement - aka heroes)and these days I am very very happy to disrupt the super rich.
It took me a while to see the benefits of a strong Union against an employer who would happily sabotage any workers rights given the chance. I used to see the Unions as more of a trouble maker than worker protection. How wrong I was!
I find it hard to understand how collective workers rights could ever be seen as a bad thing, no matter what age you are or were. Please educate me on why you thought unions were bad before you were 25, what reasoning were you coming to? I'm genuinely flummoxed, I thought everybody understood the importance of worker representation.
Same here although more like in my 50s, up to that ponit I was too busy earning money and ignored politics, then began to realise how much ALL governments take away our rights, I now support unions & striking, and only wish non union company employees would stick together and make their employers take notice.
Ditto. Many employers are more than happy to bully and harass their staff, knowing that if there's no/weak union representation, they're almost untouchable, and if you don't like it, tough. My stepdaughter put up with horrendous amounts of abuse because she didn't know her rights, and her rep was ineffective. She had to fight tooth and nail to get what was owed to her, but because I helped her with it, she was successful.
Did being a union rep ever affect your chances of career progression? I once worked with a man who was told to stop being a union rep in order to get a promotion.
@@skylarius3757 guess it depends what you want. I get far more satisfaction being a thorn in the side of management (even though I'm no longer a rep), and I haven't the slightest interest in joining a group who would gleefully stab you in the front, never mind the back 🤣
"Why are you arguing for making things worse not just for yourself but for the majority of your fellow citizens?" "Because the PM who is a proven liar told me who was to blame for literally everything and I passionately believe that without even entertaining the idea that there might be another side to the story or what the potential consequences could be!"
Painful listening, the ignorance of the caller was disturbing, but fortunately James was able to put across a well balanced counter argument where reasonable people could follow and come to a fair and balanced judgement.
As mildly amusing as this is, as witnessed by many spot on comments, it really is profoundly depressing that there is this scale of ignorance out there and that these dangerous knuckle draggers can vote.
This type probably still wears a face mask and swallowed the covid scam hook ,line and sinker . The Goverment love people like this that believe this anti union propaganda and Goverment speak false stop .
i agree its quite upsetting to see idiots have such nonchalant opinions about things that will ultimately effect them and their children. absolute stupidity at it finest, its no wonder the government keep taking us for fools.
I don’t think it is ignorance. It’s more that there is a certain number of people (typically boomers) who don’t need union representation because “I’m alright Jack” and they despise the fact that others (who aren’t as valuable to their employer or who are poor and have little agency) have access to representation that can give them more power than the boomers feel they deserve.
This caller needs an education, badly. 'How would you do that?' - 'negotiate with the employer and you have an employment contract'..... I don't even know what to say, pure idiocy.
Genius. Negotiate every single member of staff's needs for wages, holidays, sick days, pensions, maternity leave, working hours, health and safety requirements, break times, transportation, dietary needs, insurance, etc, individually. Why has no one ever thought of this before??
We are not taught about any of this in school, and that is for this exact reason. Keep the workers ignorant and submissive, from an early age, and the hegemony of the ruling class will not be questioned.
it wasn't until I read EP Thompson, the Making of the English Working Class, that I realised how hard our ancestors fought for the right to form a union, and I was never taught anything about the working class struggle while at school (50s & 60s),I oft wonder why?
when he asked the guy 'do you know where you'd be happy?', I thought the answer was the United States. Turns out, it was 1852. Says a lot about the United States.
It is a common fallacy to believe the left gave us the NHS. Churchill's war time government created the NHS after promising everyone who served free healthcare for life.
When I was working in a garage and was being genuinely discriminated against and bullied, my trade union rep sorted it out and did a bostin job, making sure people were punished for their actions, and when my leg muscle torn on the way to work and it took 6 months to recover, the trade union jumped in on my behalf to stop the company firing me for something that wasn't my fault, second I leave that job and go for a semi-self employed contactor job, the company could and did get shot of me after 3 years because they felt like it and I didn't have a leg to stand on, I was begging for union representation then, this bloke don't know what he has in terms of employment privileges and what the great unions have done for us.
@@agt155 if he was self employed then no...but as a self employed person he should have insurance to cover that. I honestly think you are clueless about working practices and you may be better off not posting
@@agt155 Patently not, but in his costings your builder would have included insurance against such an occurrence, so you would still be making a contribution towards covering the cost of his accident.
@@agt155 That being the case, you should keep clear of such a cheapskate as he won't stay in business long, what you describe is a self employed bricky with little business acumen, who would likely walk out on the job when things went pear shaped. The insurance would not only protect the builder's interest, it would also protect yours.
I have heard enough. Our children are uneducated until they are taught,in detail, how trade unions work, how they started and which country invented them and why ordinary working people are lacking if they are not a member of a trade union.
Oh no, we can’t have that - how would Tory governments and huge corporations turn the public at large against unionisation if people knew that trade unions represent their interests?
Trade unions started in middle ages, they are direct continuations of medieval trade guilds! Trade unions are archaic organizations that should be abolished!
With zero hour contracts, one employee benefits at the expense of another so that none of them can get enough hours, earn enough money or break free from the control of the Universal Credit vampire.
i used to work in Waitrose and one of the younger women that worked with me in a group threw a complete tantrum one day over the bs they were putting our groups through... she threatened to just leave. Oh it got our immediate team leader and lower level managers attention and the young woman was told things would change. The next 2 or 3 days for her were better but then they slid back again. they just make token efforts to appease you without any proper representation. IIRC the young woman quit a month later. IMHO you should just quit as the blackmail of quitting doesnt work
You can almost hear the gears in the guy's head as James feeds him notions that he's never even contemplated before. He thinks everything is there by some kind of divine right.
Everything worth having in this country is the result of agitation by the Unions. No Tory governments have introduced major social legislation. It has been Labour governments who are responsible for that. Businesses can function without a CEO . The workforce will keep it running. No workforce - no business. In the 3 decades after WW2 ordinary folk saw their living standards rise as never before. Since 1979 wages have stagnated. The 6th richest country in the world enjoys living standards that are 22nd in the world. Reason? The hobbling of organised labour. Our competitors welcome the Unions. The Germans work with organised labour. That's why they are much more successful than us and they always will be. Rugged individualism is hopeless. Collective action is the way forward.
Adam Smith was not the libertarian he is made out to be now. The "invisible hand of the market" is mentioned ONCE in his book (I do not know the title right now, it is the bible of so called "free market capitalists". That book is supposed to have a glossar but they do not have that for this now famous term - because it would be immediately visible that the phrase that is so famous with the free market ideologues was only mentioned ONCE in the whole book. And he was against greedy and ruthless profiteers.
I remember when we worked on saturdays and when it was abolished what a row came from the employers how are we going to manage and it was a nine hour day except saturdays which was six hours. For holiday pay we paid for stamps. If off work for any reason to get a stamp you had to complete a full week. This was the 1950's. The factory owner when he built his factory built the houses close to the works. Rent was part of your wages if you fell out with your boss you not only lost your job but you lost your. home as well. Some of the wool barons also owned the shops and would only accept the coinage minted at the mill or foundary. This started the Co-operative movement owned by the working classes who obtained a co-op number and dividends were paid from profits each quarter on presenting that number. Very little is taught on this history in schools and what is is glossed over or sanitised. But if the laws were changed today the employers would be quick to take advantage. Just take the recent action by a ferry company at Dover. Viewers have been enjoying Gentleman Jack on the TV a real person based on her diarys filmed at the original home. In the yard is a coal truck pushed by children underground in one of her mines. We saw in the last episode her politcs about supporting the Blue.
It's hilarious to hear people complain about how "powerful" some unions are and how "train drivers get paid really well already". Yes, because they have joined a union in large numbers and are well represented. If they have a problem with that, then.... Join a union. 👍
The mean average salary for full-time workers in the UK is £38,131. The average train driver salary in the UK is £54,000, a figure that some people complain is too high, even for a skilled and responsible job. Talk about low expectations. The basic annual salary of an MP is £84,144. MPs also receive generous expenses (from public money) for housing, travel and office costs. Many of them also have 2nd and 3rd jobs (where can they possibly find the time if they're doing their job properly?). When Tory MP Peter Bottomley says of newer MPs on that salary that “I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim”, I wonder if he ever thinks how the driver of the train that's taking him home manages?
Im hardly surprised. I recall the first job I had after leaving school ( basically packing , unpacking, hearing aids) Each afternoon at the end of the day I would have to take dozens of packages with repaired hearing aids to the nearest post office to get sent....in those days it was pre internet and self franking services. Each package had to be weighed and costed. It would take approx 40 minutes. This was OUTSIDE my hours. I did this for a few weeks and then took it up with the boss that I was doing over 3 hours unpaid work a week...I was told if I didnt like it I could leave....so did
@@danteshydratshirt2360 yeah, remember that attitude, from the works foreman, I.e. blue collar, undermanagement, lording it over his fellow factory underlings: "if you don't like it then you know what you can do", and that was supposedly WITH AUEW representation.
@@suzyqualcast6269 Because I was young and single with no responsibilities I left but can easily imagine someone putting up with that simply to be working
‘Everyone should negotiate everything for themselves’. Sadly there are people that think that’s a salient point, and not massively in the favour of the Employer or indeed a huge undertaking.
What the caller doesn't realise is that not everyone can negotiate for themselves. People vary in agreeableness so more agreeable people would get taken advantage of.
These people are the new middle class. Ignore how much the mega rich take out, focus on getting a better deal than the majority for your self. The Unions where created to fight the middle class for a fair share.
@@agt155 Whose side are you on - the corporations? No parental leave, 14 days holiday after many years of employment, ability to sack without cause, terrible terms and conditions unless you are in the top 10%
