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A badass, battle scarred J4 that would lead an army of mixed race warriors from all over Runeterra that got captured by the noxians, breaking his way out of the noxian jail-whatever, conquering the "badlands" there, to reclaim his place and take back Demacia would probably be peak Riot lore writing ngl. But alas, we can only dream...
Imagine the reason why the Black Rose sent Katarina to kill his dad was because LB clone Jarvan would be king and rule Demacia to it's demise with a civil war that would go on for many months and even years BUT THEN HAH REAL JARVAN COMES OUT OF THE FORESTS IN TOKOGOL AND AND AND-- (league would never)
as cool as this idea is, it'd take away all the agency J4 had in his lore. It's a cop out. Instead of it being J4 being this rash, immature king who needs to learn how to properly lead his people, it'd take all his mistakes and pin them on someone else making him completely blameless in all these events. it's way more interesting for J4 to learn from his mistakes, driving Shyvana away should be his wake up call, and putting him down his path to becoming a better man
But it also basically implies that LeBlanc fell in love with Shyvana, like, by the end of Mageseeker going "Okay, I don't care about all this destroying Demacia by instigating civil wars deal, please, come back so that we can have a half-dragon family with my alter-ego, babes!" I'm not saying LeBlanc can't be sapphic but in the same way that Jarvan comes across as an incel, LeBlanc turns into a smelly femcel herself lmao
i once heard somebody say that the opposite of hate and love is indifference, because both hate and love are strong emotions. jarvan is the pinnacle of this in a game to me
I'd say he has potential for a redemption arc. Imagine him and Garen being guided by Lux got a story when them just go into town where he sees the mages helping out people rebuild the town, seeing a mother use her fire powers in a way Milio kinda does, when she becomes like a heater for her child, stuff like that. That would help a lot to his character to say "oh, I DID f-ed up". Would be cliche, yeah, but sometimes you need clichés to get something going.
I main Swain support and I understand what Nicky's saying about his theme because he is a demon powered battle mage. But I feel more like an actual general and I'm directing my team(army) to get kills. Like Azir but instead of sand soldiers I have a bot laner.
I made the same comment! Even the joke about ADCs. I should have just read more to see your comment. I also pointed out that Renata is a leader in the support role.
@@Egefomo She's honestly as perfect as it's gonna get as far as a villain enchanter. I love villain supports and how they redefine the theme.(not to say Nami and Alistar aren't some of my most played champs)
my ranked duo last season was swain/jhin and it worked wonders when the jhin managed to avoid inting before level 6, at which point I could just walk into most matchups, press ult and win with fire support from behind. especially when you build him tank, you become an insane frontline that just cant be killed. rylai's then jak'sho was so good for this. I've been meaning to play him more this season, try out the ridiculously cheap frozen heart to become immune to the ADC
Are you thinking it would it be more of a ruined Demacia with everything collapsing around him or would it be an even worse authoritarian Demacia where he got even worse?
man, for the longest time before actually looking into League's characters back when i was a child, i though Xin Zhao and Jarven IV were the exact same character lmao
Ok genuinely how is Jarvan one of the most popular. champions in China? His design is wack, his gameplay is boring and his personality is bland, yet he manages to overpass champions like Talon, Shen and even Lewis who at least have more interesting gameplay
It's because people play to win and he kinda just does it all easily and effectively he's tanky has good engage synergizes with a lot of people and does decent damage on priority targets. He's just not on priority for a facelift because he still works
I think him looking sort of non-demacian could be a interesting way of storytelling if done right. That he doesn't look like normal demacian because he is or wants to be a reformer king who wants to move his country in a different direction. I always thought that the whole demacian story going back to the Lux comic and warriors cinematic felt like it was gonna boil down to a Garen vs Jarven civil war (where the most loyal and straight laced Garen eventually breaks with Jarven out of his protectiveness of Lux). And then it would make sense that Garen would symbolize traditional, old, good Demacia and Jarven symbolizes like perverted values/a twisting of those values/the import of new bad elements to those values, so then the spikiness and black elements from the LOR design would make sense. Like Jarvan got corrupted by too much fighting of Noxus and becoming hard hearted.
As one of the few J4 mains out there, i do agree with most of the points said, especially with what role he's been placed in. Jungling just does not fit the aesthetic of Jarvan, which is why i like to play him in support, which i feel is a good helping role. He's at the battle, rallying, his troops with his standard most of the time hanging back, but goes all in when the fight gets started
@@washadaI completely disagree, his splash art makes him look 30s at the oldest. It also doesn't help that his contemporary art also paints him as a young man, when he's supposed to be much older, somewhere around his 50s nearing 60s.
I don't think Jarvan beng a hypocrite is a bad thing, the biggest issue is the execution because he feels confused. They WANT Jarvan to be a conflicted character, who hates mages for the murder of his father but who also loves certain magical beings and mages as individuals, but it just kind of doesn't come across. As for his beliefs about mages, and his hatred of mages, I think that's another thing that could be done better but isn't bad on its own. He hates mages for two primary reasons. Because his society as a whole hates them, and because he believes one killed his father. The angle of "he grew up in a society that hates mages which is why he's dogmatic against them" angle could very much work, there's a certain Empress (who should not live forever) in a certain book series who is the same way, and she's a fascinating character. The problem is that Jarvan just isn't written as well as this character, the Empress (may she fucking die hopefully) is such a complex character that is kind of sometimes genuinely hard to dislike even in spite of being dogmatically in favor of magical slavery and Jarvan just isn't. They TRY to make Jarvan complex, but like I said, it just gets muddy. (anyway read wheel of time thats hte series im referencing its so fucking good except when it isnt but it is really good)
At the part you mentioned about the Demacian theme being warped around Garen, also keep in mind that he got a visual update, and his old model looked very similar in color/aesthetic to Jarvan. Just without the dragon designs. We see Demacia in a lot of silver/white/gold now but in the past, most Demacian champions were blue/yellow. Xin, Quinn, and old Galio, they all share that general aesthetic. I like the dragon theme in Jarvan's armor tbh. But I wish he would get a visual redesign to match the new color aesthetic in Demacia, get rid of the weird body condom he wears, and get some new voice lines where he might actually pronounce the name of HIS KINGDOM correctly (I'm tired of hearing him say "Dem-ass-ia"). This is all coming from someone who considers Jarvan, along with Swain, one of my favorite champions all around (you can tell I love the Demacia/Noxus rivalry). Kit, story, all of it. I love how he's a nuanced character now with real flaws, and hope they can show that properly in a visual update some day. Probably FAR in the future, unfortunately...
I actually think in some way support fits Swain. I’ve seen some people describing support or healer role as tactician, who decides which teammate will survive (healing,buffs), or which enemy will be targeted first(CC, debuffs).
18:40 You dropped this king:🍯 18:43 the skinline can work if the suit fits them or adds to their character, like renekton is halirous as the lifeguard it contrasts so well to his runeterra design and character it justifies itself. Jarvan could've been a sand king, like he's some guy who put his main goal to be a king a sand castle he made, or more a wholesome one where he's the king defending his children's castle against the shenagins of the ocean and other creatures known as players.(probably could add a non canon confirmation of Shyivana ship since jarvan in this timeline isn't a bastard, Finally he earned the Muscular mommy)
I like lunar beast j4 because it takes a normal dude in armor and fits that size in a guy in just streetwear so jarvin just looks 3 times bulkier in that skin like he is just shredded.
Smolder didn’t turn out to be J5 like I was hoping, but I still think it would be cool for him to get a Demacia style skin that kind of ties him to J4.
1:40 I used to hate the Xin Zhao's weird aging, but now I just find it funny. Its like he has a different age everytime you glance. He even looks younger than Jarvan IV sometimes. Reminds me of WongFu's videos on guessing ages. I know other champions like Jayce has similar issues but Xin Zhao feels the weirdest when considering lore. I don't know how aging works in runeterra, but I kinda wish they make it canon that his inconsistent age be this unique anomaly.
"I can't think of anyone whose fav champ is Jarvan" is on you, warcraft fans like Jarvan as he resembles Arthas somewhat. plus he's one of the few classics still out there that resembles an important unit in any fantasy RPG
love the vids nicky, tho i think the chibies in the corner are a bit distracting since they are a layer above the game and have pretty viberant colors and are ofc moving
My favorite incongruency with Jarvan is how he says "Demacia" like a guy from Boston would say it, with the first "a" sounding like the one in "laugh". Every other character says that "a" like in "spa".
I love playing Jarvan IV, but he's so easy to counter. You can snowball quite easily with him, thanks to sundered sky and hydra, or even full lethality, but his all in combo with no way to get out, against more and more champions that can simply flash his ulti or jump out with abilities makes it difficult to play him well (even tho he's pretty easy). There's only so long you can fake an ult before the enemy catches on and starts saving their blink/flash/dash for it.
@@_pure1019 so like, say you've been consistently ulting immediately after you E Q auto, to the point where the enemy is conditioned to save their flash or escape ability for your ult. You "fake" the ult by pretending to all-in, or yea, by flashing I guess although usually I'd prefer to save that summoner spell in case. But yea, condition the enemy then break it suddenly until they don't know whether to expect to run or not.
Man, ofc he cares for Lux, she is his best friends(kind of brother) sister. He agreed to marry her bcs he trust them and likes them. That part was super logical, everyone would care. But they did it wierd since he in one likes shyvana in other agrees to marry lux and shyv exists(they are super consistent with their stories)
I think swain as a support makes a little sense, its kinda the style of his leadership that puts him there, hes a tactician hes a "support leader" someone who isnt on the front killing like darius but guiding his armies to skillfully defeat the enemy if you think about it like that support is a good role as support leans heavily on map control, vision control and pressure which allows their team to more easily defeat their opponents
As a Swain Support myself I think of the ADC as a key (if unstable) asset that requires personal management. Midlane acts as my hand. The jungler is my ace in the hole, an assassin of beasts and oppone ts aline. And toplane is my insurance plan for lategame defenses or splitting for key objectives while I sacrifice the others as pawns. That said I also like to play Botlane Swain even more so the support can be my personal aide.
I feel like swain support makes sense because he's less of a kingly leader and more politician, pulling strings from the shadows to get what he wants done. It's why I miss his pull being his passive, it felt like he was taking advantage of his ally's hard work.
Honestly Jarvan the third gets a little too much credit, he sat on his hands with the mage issue when he had plenty of time to change it (The same thing everyone rightfully criticized Azir for with slavery, arguably worse given Azir actually did have trouble securing said power.) Jarvan the Fourth thus makes sense to me, his father fencesat the mage issue his whole life and only started to act far too late. To me it makes sense Jarvan IV never really considered the complexity of the situation, he was born the crown prince and his father never outwardly addressed it. Jarvan IV's thoughts on it are still forming and changing because he literally never had to confront this.
I think labeling support as just about "supporting" is a smidge reductive about what the role actually entails. While I'm not a huge fan of Swain support, I'd argue it makes sense when you view the macro intensive nature of support through the lens of a tactician. The general fantasy of League pins Mid as the leader, but I think it's feasible to have support as the leader in some cases works given you need to think ahead and see the bigger picture and the supportive leader is a trope.
I have a love hate relationship with Jarvan. In that I mostly hate him, he's one of the few League champs whose personality and story I actively dislike, but I also respect that like...Mageseeker depicted him pretty much perfectly as an aristocrat who thinks he's being a good benevolent king but just can't wrap his privileged little brain around the fact that his decisions have consequences, very many consequences, for very many people. It's not until those consequences actually hurt people in his tiny bubble world (Shyv, Lux) that he recognizes them at all, and still thinks he can just handwave fix it because King, right? Great buddy, but you can't handwave resurrect all those Demacian citizens I mean mages murdered by your decree while you weren't paying attention. Spot on depiction of a royal leader. Dude makes Garen look smart and self aware.
The only thing I will ever think about whenever I see J4 is back when I started playing the game, in late season 2 or smth. A friend who was teaching me the game played him jungle and I was like «wtf thats just a dude” and then he built him full HP so he had 6k health and my baby brain was like “WOAHHHHH THAT IS SO MUCH HP!????? BROKEN”
He's only appealing because Shyvana's charisma rubs off on him. People fantasise about self inserting into a dragon romance. Otherwise, post-Mageseeker especially, he's just complicit in genocide. And he's not even a fun villain like Thresh chewing the scenery with over the top evil.
Jarvan is one of those like 10 champs that kist make me go "Wait, who the fuck is this" Like i consider myself an intermediate lore head concerning runeterra and i had no clue jarvan had any involvement with any other champ in the game
16:39 Mayb something similar sett but more diving based, Jarvan is a launching speedster who's basically an unstoppable force, so he should have aspects of his gameplay made to do something after the diving part like Vi and actually balcaned camilee.
Jarven feels like a side character who was thrown in around the same time as Garren, Lux, and Shyvanna because it was the beginning of league before they really had a plan for their story. I think he really needs a revamp to even be considered a legend in general.
J4's the kind of guy to describe Shyvana as "one of the good ones." I think as a whole, J4's hypocrisy kind of fits someone who was raised in a prejudiced culture struggling to reconcile that his entire world view up to that point was wrong. The mage rebellion would have just been an affirmation of his prejudice, but the death of his father during the events turned his prejudice into full-blown hatred. That said I would rather have the Le Blanc theory instead.
Garen's ability (I'm assuming you are referring to his ultimate) isn't magical - you made the connection yourself with kayle. Its worth to note that the "magic" kayle uses is very different from the "magic" that morgana uses. Ascended powers aren't magical, while actual runeterra magic like the one that Morgana uses is the magic that they shun. Rune Magic wreaked havoc in runeterra while Kayle's ascended powers were portrayed in legend as the savior of the people in the sacntuary territory that would be later known as Demacia.
honestly I think of the Jungler and Top as filling "Leader" role the most? Though I can see Support as a leader as well. Jungler manages all three lanes and also is generally in charge of objectives, giving them the most macro oriented role. Meanwhile top laners being fighters and tanks tends to have a Lead The Charge sorta feel to them. Support meanwhile can have a sorta Lead From Behind sorta policy to it, being the strategist who has their agents (other players) fulfill their plans for them. Middle being mostly Mages and Assassins makes me more think of a strong servant to power, with their focus on taking out enemy players. While ADC is the all rounder in terms of damage being equally as good at objectives and killing
I like your commentary but Swain definitely fits the support role thematically. He is the General that overviews the battlefield. He is not a frontline king/ruler like J4. Swain has nice parallels with Renata who still has a great leader aesthetic and is a support. Swain and Azir have a similar vibe too, but I like that Swain has this more versatile style rather than being relegated to one role. It makes him feel more willing to step into roles as needed. Also, he doesn't get minions like Azir so its funnier to think that the ADC is Swain's minion.
I played assasin jarvan top lane back in the day. You just picked and prodded amd you would trade mills if need be. You just delete their carries in low Elo and they can't do anything about it. It was a ton of fun
Why the heck does Jarvan sound like a 50 year old smoker? He’s in his mid twenties like Garen. When I first heard his voice in the Mageseeker it really threw me off. Also I’m so glad I’m not the only one who jokingly called him “Yarvin” Also also if Demacia’s aesthetic was warped around Jarvan, then Demacia would look like a bunch of Yellow Black and Spikey bumblebees which I see as an absolute win.
Snall correction, Xin Zhao =/= "Zen Zao". Pronounced like "sheen jow". Chinese. 👍 Anyways, good vid. I can't say I've ever played played J4 or wanted to play him in the 11 years I've been playing. He just seems kinda... forgettable. Like Xin Zhao. There are just way more interesting characters now.
Jarvan does look like he belongs to Demacia since he sticks out like a sore thumb so you know the guy who PUNCHED THE EARTH HARD ENOUGH TO CREATE A WALL AROUND YOU is important.
Talking about Swain I love his design, gameplay and lore but I hate playing him in mid lane, constantly dodging skill shot and is slow to roam towards side lanes (I also don’t like support swain I rather have someone that gives me shield, healing and hard cc)
Xin Zhao is easily a decade or more older than Jarvan, he just suffers from being designed in the pizza feet era of league and having had no visual update.
I’d have to disagree. A leader has many roles, a leader in the support: making sure his team has utility, upholding, and protecting his weaker but very important member
I really like Jarvan's kit and I'm trying to find a playstyle and build I really enjoy for him in top lane right now. I don't like his character, though.
14:35 I mean, Swain is not really a front lane guy. He sure can, he has the power to, but isn't he more a "I see and control all and everyone"? Mage supports are not really supposed to protect ADCs, not entirely I mean In my mind, they are the plan B for botlane, moreover when they take kills instead of their ADC (which is a debatable bhvr yes, it is what it is) So Swain sup, not that incoherent for me. I consider him as Renata thematically. Agressive support, even when ADC die he can get double kill In the end, all of this was for himself Thanks for lowering enemy hp soldier, now I'll take my kill
Stonewall008 and his "voice check1 - voice check 2"..... maaaaan that is a name I haven't heard uttered in *_EONS_* - he was only mentioned in the ancient texts! He was the reason why I originally started maining jungle and tanks, and I followed his jungle clear guides religiously - than he went through some awfully rough times in his personal life, and he basically lost motivation to make content..... If i recall he was battling cancer and also got severe depression, so yah understandable
About Swain, I disagree with you. First of all, supports are the leaders of their teams. Mommys and Daddys. In pro play many supports are actually coaches of their teams. Support role is all about macro, supports are second junglers. So Swain fits perfectly. Secondly, I personally like to think that Swain on the Rift and botlane, in particularly, plays a role of a mentor. Like 'go my adc, go and win'. Here, I've made a setup(engage), go and conquer my plebs! True rulers don't make their hands dirty, at least on the surface. They make others do things for them.
14:11 well yes and no, it's more like your his pet and he enjoys the muder you commit mmore than he likes saving you from garen's Noxian might, and yeah a character should try as much as possible to fit into the gameplay to fufill their fantasy. Reneta works as she less fights and more so pays you to do it for her, aka She's your boss with the orders. Swain doesn't work since he's all about leading an army not supporting people through exage of reasources. is a same thing I have a problem with pantheon's gmaeplay rework as he's made uinto a sneaky semy assasin thatwallows away using cheap and cheesy strategues to his advatage, instead of the skirmisher he'd fit way better as. So for jarvan he's issue is his gameplay doesn't really feel like a commadnder it feels more like an annoying pest, like he should be more designed as top lane diver instead.
The way you pronounce “Xin Zhao” makes me cringe. I like the dragoon vibe J4 has and it matches well with Shyvana. I kind of like J4’s story as an exploration of grief, J3 was his only blood related family and a huge influence on him, and his death broke him. J4 wanted blind revenge at the cost of all reason. Meanwhile Xin Zhao wanted to off himself to cope with the loss and failure as a contrast to J4. It took realizing he had driven away the person he cared about most to get him to see reason.
I didn't know Shyvana actually left J4 during mageseeker, and all I can say is: You go, queen. Go and find your own home. And a SO that cares for you, unlike HYPOCRACY PRINCE.
