Part 1 of the Riddler ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tXa_MDgekPA.html I think penguin is going to be the last one, he has so many scenes, after ed maybe mad hatter or scarecrow
Warner Bros: You're not allowed to use The Joker in this series. Gotham: That probably just means we're not allowed to do it exactly once. Let's do it twice!
1:48:09 THERE HE IS, THERE MISTAH J I prefer Jerome over Jeremiah buuuuuuut that gave me hope that there can be a lil Joker 🃏 insanity in him, because the jokers smart, like Jeremiah, and obsessed with batman/Bruce like Jeremiah but Jerome has that insanity and laugh that the joker had, put em together, and we got the joker up there with heath ledger and mark hamill
I honestly find their backstory fascinating. Jeremiah claims Jerome was pure evil and wanted to kill him. Jerome claims Jeremiah was the actual evil one and turned everyone against him making up lies. And it's never confirmed who of the two was telling the truth. We are left to speculate who really created the Joker. Maybe Jeremiah was telling the truth when he said the gas only had "cosmetic effects" and he was the real evil one all along, shifting all the blame to Jerome as kids and sacrificing his brother's life so that he could get out of the circus and build his career, driving Jerome mad in the process. Or maybe it was indeed Jerome the one that was always insane and he did make his brother snap with the gas to continue his legacy. Or maybe both created each other. Or maybe their actions didn't matter that much and they were both destined to become what they became. There is just no way to know. Gotham might have given the Joker a name and a past, but it still respected a core element of his character, in the sense that his past is a mystery and it's multiple choice.
Maybe it's one of those "I made you, but you made me first" moments in the DC world. That was a quote from the 1989 batman. If he really did abuse jerome, then it would seem like jerome would turn out to be the other crazy side of jeremiah that nobody saw to defend jerome. Also alot of evidence kinda shows that jeremiah intended to destroy gotham before he had even been sprayed with the insanity gas, He basically made a bomb and made bruce think it was an extensive energy source so he could make him trust him enough to fund the making of more bombs. Also he does say the gas supposedly had no mental effect on him just cosmetic. There are alot of theories within theories
jerome's diary: ice cream design, fun fonts and overall colorful. inside: plotting jimbo's death and bruce's. plans to take over gotham and gruesome drawings. now that's the definition of 'dont judge a book by its cover.
It makes me laugh because I can’t stop thinking of Jerome sitting on the floor surrounded with markers, stamps, and sparkly pens and he’s just giggling and scribbling things down 😂😂😂
Cameron really hit the villain jackpot here. He got to play 2 very different (one insane and charismatic, and one sadistic and calculating) but equally evil characters in one show. His acting is amazing, I forget that it's the same person and like with this and shameless, damn he is just too talented!!! He deserves so much praise
Jerome is Joker as a child. Jeremiah is Joker as a man. One is clearly more mature than the other. Both are very intelligent and insane. However, Jeremiah does it with debonair. Long Live Joker.
That’s why I’m interested to see what direction they’re taking Jeremiah in s5. He’s clearly the more clever calculated killer of the two and now they’ve said that he will become even more unhinged in the coming season. Almost like he’ll be the ideal joker? Certainly looks it in the trailers. Super excited for it
The Terrible Twins alternated frases: The 'artist' line Jerome: I'm an artist I just wanna paint the town crazy Jeremiah: All artists must start with a blank canvas, soo... This all needs to go
Cameron was actually nominated and awarded for his roles in Gotham and he retweeted a new Joker ranking list. Think Cam was three. Behind Hamill and Ledger.
The spray Jerome had Scarecrow concoct "just for" Jeremiah wasn't an Insanity Gas. Jerome insisted that his brother was already just as crazy, but managed to fool everyone, so what would be the point of it? No no no, Jerome wanted to _expose_ Jeremiah for the liar he was, wanted to prove Jeremiah's convincing "I'm the meek, scared, sane angel & my psycho brother is the only crazy sadist" act was a facade. Jeremiah thought his brother's spray had failed, because it didn't induce raving psychosis & cackling like the regular victims of the insanity gas suffered. But Jeremiah was wrong, Jerome's gift worked perfectly. Aside from the characteristic cosmetic effect, I think really the _only_ initial effect it had - at first - was to strip away his desire to conceal the psychopathic tendencies & narcissism he'd successfully kept hidden from everyone for so long. It stripped away Jeremiah's desire to bother continuing to hide behind the "innocent" mask he'd used for so long to manipulate everyone into underestimating him while he misdirected blame where he wanted instead. Jeremiah doesn't think he's better/saner than Jerome because he has less of a desire to kill, he thinks he's superior because whereas Jerome is erratic & chaotic in his violent tendencies, he himself is more controlled & better able to hide it. It was both Jerome's revenge & his gift to him that the gas did, in fact, set the "Real" Jeremiah free. (In Season 5, there is some indication that he's starting to develop some subtle symptoms of delusional psychosis, a brief blink-&-you'll-miss-it moment where he's angrily verbalizing both side of an argument with himself, but that's probably a latent more long-term progressive effect of whatever the chemicals did to achieve their initial goal of removing his inhibitions & impulse control) A few of the reasons I say this: 1) That bunker. Thaaaaat bunker...that bunker labyrinth isn't a hiding place, it's a zoo cage. It's the kind of maze a scientist drops a rat into & then observes in an experiment. Jerome's cell had a camera to observe from, but no visible door; it was built to imprison & voyeuristically watch its captive to see what they'd do...but he finished construction 1-2 years _before_ Jerome killed their mother, much less before he proved smart enough to escape Arkham, and had been designing it years before that...so who was it meant for? 1) He straight-up admits that stories about his brother trying to kill him was a lie. While it's entirely possible that Jerome already showed signs of being violent or aggressive as a child, Jeremiah acknowledges that he was _not_ an attempt murder when Lila had Uncle Zach spirit him away. But those lies aren't just how he manipulated hims way out of the circus & into a better life at the expense of his brother, they are excuse he uses to justify building the voyeuristic-prison-maze to "hide" from Jerome in the first place. Again, years before Jerome actually killed anyone. In fact, I get the impression that those _lies_ are the only reason Jerome is threatening to kill him now, that Jeremiah used them both to abandon him & cause him to be subjected to abuse. 3) In both of their confrontations, Jerome's _entire_ driving motivation is calling out Jeremiah on the fact that they "still think the same". The hill Jerome was willing to die on, _literally_, was showing the world Jeremiah had been _fooling_ everyone into thinking that he's sane. That would be a hell of a conviction to throw himself on his sword for if there's been a change of being wrong. 4) Jeremiah's _entire_ "meek & afraid" persona is an extremely well performed facade (the exact same fake persona Jerome displays the very first time we see him at Haly's Circus, if you recall), designed to show people what he wants them to see, how he wants them to perceive him in order to suit what he wants/needs from them. The facade slips before the spray, though. When Gordon is trying to convince him to agree to be delivered into Jerome's hands at the concert, he's playing at being some victim who has been so terrified of his murderous brother his whole life that he's lived in hiding underground for 6 years; but a single sentence from Bruce - who he'd met less than 60 seconds prior - implying he'd be seen as a hero & the fear just _drops_ like switch has been flipped, because the fear wasn't real to begin with. It isn't that Bruce - a stranger at that point - is such a reassuring presence; it's that his narcissism's satisfaction at the idea of being recognized as heroic (thereby superior) outweighed the usefulness of being underestimated that the "fear" facade had afforded him. If his brother was eliminated as a threat, his purpose is served better by showing him the poised stoic self-sacrificing courage he wants Bruce to see. He slipped off one emotional persona for another in seconds like a costume change, because neither of them were real. (Cameron Monaghan's a pretty consistently solid actor, that abrupt of a shift wasn't an oopsie). "From an early age, I showed a proficiency for Maths & Design, and Jerome, mainly the mutilation of alley-cats" I'd imagine that both boys, as children, were displaying disturbed behavior, some budding hints of violent urges & lack of empathy. While it wouldn't surprise me if Jerome were the type to lash out & expel violent outbursts of pain/anger/frustration on hapless random stray small animals, it would surprise me even less if Jeremiah were the type to squeeze the cat's next slowly until he could make note of the exact amount of resistance to calculate pressure required to snap its neck & then meticulously cut it apart in order to study how it goes together. If anyone were to find the remains of Jeremiah's feline victim, however, he would be quick to wide-eyed & quivering-lipped claim he'd seen Jerome cutting it up & confide how frightened he'd been.
I agree with your theory. Especially since Jerome pretty much told what was gonna happen when they first met up. “We can could all go insane with just one bad day....or in your case one bad spray. Ah you’ll see what I mean!!” They both think the same, one is just poised while the other is wild
xalaq bv He didn’t make him do anything. And as he said, he was quite right about Jerome. What Jerome was wasn’t caused by his mother being an abusive drunk whore. He has something in him. Some monsters are made and some are born. I think he was born a monster and his mother didn’t make it any better for sure.
I wish Jerome didn’t die but succeeded in making Jeremiah’s crazy because each of them represent different incarnations if joker but the story should have rapped up with one dying but we don’t know which one this would keep the joker mystery is it Jerome or Jeremiah. And what’s left they could have blended the two versions into one true joker that would have been perfect
eoghan_d4ly they could have still did something like the cemicaks could have still messed up there faces or Jerome gives Jeremiah the scars what ever it is but it would have been better this way so that way I dyed of getting the best of two jokers in deprecate people we could have a full whole perfect joker and we wouldn’t know who it is so it would have kept that mystery
Wolf Hunter same actor but completely different portrayal of the same character. That’s what makes him such a amazing actor. He’s playing two different characters that are also the same character, but portraying the two so differently that one is largely loved by the community while the other is rather looked down upon. The two act and feel so different in fact that I honestly thought that it was just the brother of the original actor the first time watching it through.
PixelHavoc it’s called “death in the family” where joker’s face is ripped off willingly by the dollmaker and the former’s face is later stapled back on.
I feel like Jerome and Jeremiah represent the 2 key sides of the Joker;Jerome represents the Craziness the Loony side of the Joker and Jeremiah represents the “Schemer” side the cunning side of the Joker or in simple terms: Jerome+Jeremiah =The Ultimate Joker that Bruce will fight in the future as Batman
This is why I think Jerome was more evil than Jeremiah was. Jerome was aware of his insanity and evilness, he just didn’t care about it, he enjoyed it.
@@lovellhorrors1586 lmao yes! his and Jeremiah's expression I died they looked so damn confused kinda like okay where the hell did they pop in from? 😂🤣
I hate how Jerome's intelligence is understimated, he did rely on random luck a lot and acted like a minor Anarchist but he did have a lot of good plans.
I really like jerome's whole delevopment during the entire show... He started out as a conplete nobody... A simple murderer who killed his mother and was sent to arkham... When he joined the maniax, he made a name for himself, and attention was brought to him (similar to the joker in the dark knight, who wasnt a concern at first). Once he single handedly caused abolute chaos after his revival, Along with a scary, new, cut-off-face look, THATS when he was really seen as a true massive threat to gotham. And from then on, his plans kept getting bigger and bigger in scale, and more complicated to pull off, especially with his last plan to turn gotham into a madhouse. Even the LAUGH evolved from a normal-sounding but high pitched laugh in season 2, a raspy jared leto styled laugh when he was first revived, (presumably cuz his trachea wound was in the process of healing) in season 3, and in season four, we finally get a combination of both, a raspy, high pitched, mark hamill joker laugh. By the his death, we really see how he impacted many people's ideas on life, cuz as he said, he was is an idea and a philosophy. Overall an excellent interpretation on the crazy side of joker... Now lets see what the calculative genius side of him is REALLY capable of in season 5 :D
Why do I feel like Jeremiah fell right into Jerome's trap since he destroyed Gotham which is what Jerome wanted from the beginning he didnt care what happened to Gotham afterwards so long as it was destroyed. Meaning Jeremiah completed Jerome's mission for him without even knowing it
Actually it was all Jeremiah's mission because as jerome said he had turned everyone against him as a child, meaning Jeremiah had been planning this since he was a little kid
papastew I think that Jeremiah just felt unsafe around Jermone as a child so he planted everybody against Jerome. I think Jerome's revenge against Jeremiah was because Jeremiah believed more than ever that he was completely sane, but Jerome knew. Jerome knew that they were both crazy, no matter what Jeremiah said, so his ultimate revenge was to make him exactly how Jerome was. Jerome's plan was to cause a little chaos. He knew that he wasn't planned far enough ahead in time to complete his ultimate goal--to end Gotham. So thats where Jeremiah came into play. He was so bent on NOT being Jerome thats exactly what he became.
@@caden8239 to turn everyone against his brother is not a plan to destroy gotham.. is just a jealous and hate act about his brother nothing more... so no it was nt jeremiah plan.... jeremiah wasnt insane as a kid he was just a bad kid with brother issues.... But all this made jerome who are now, his plan was to kick jerome out of the family no to make him insane it wasnt on purpose
Jeremiah was crazy as a kid, jerome was not. Jeremiah made Jerome crazy by turning everyone against him, trauma. Jerome is a sociopath, Jeremiah is a psychopath.
@@hanz2904 Jeremiah needs to be a little more crazy in my opinion, he's just not joker enough, too emotionless sure he's intimidating, cruel and has fun plans but where's his stage presence?
This more "traditional" Joker as you call him is actually called the Silver and Modern Age Joker. With the Joker we see in Jeremiah being the Golden Age Joker. Meaning Jeremiah is basically how the Joker first started out in comics.
Yeah, he was also more of a cold hearted guy. A thinker more than a psycho. With the smile stuck on his face of course. Same with Jeremiah. Well aside from the smile which we rarely see him don.
I love the first conversation between Jerome and Jeremiah. That’s one of the times Jerome looked really disappointed and sad before that insanity took over. Like all he just wanted was to talk with his brother. And you see Jerome loved Jeremiah. In a strange way but still kinda like brothers. I think that’s really fascinating!
Jana Winkler I would like to see a number of psychological profiles done on the Valeska twins. They're my favorite fixations for mental curiosties that I love.😊
I don't think the producers designed them to be entirely accurate to known psychological disorders XD I'm guessing they're each off-shoots of ASPD, but beyond that I'm not too sure. Jerome's flamboyance and Jeremiah's flat affect are some rather interesting things to consider. Flamboyance may hint at histrionic, but histrionic melodrama tends to be more like "Oh no I'm in so much pain, pity me, pity me" or a need for affirmation rather than Jerome's bounciness. A flat affect is consistent with certain instances of ASPD, which is really pretty interesting, because generally in ASPD (and in extreme cases of Conduct Disorder before 18 years of age) there's the tendency to "switch" one's emotions on and off as the situation demands, meaning the general mood is actually one of flatness. However, someone with ASPD would generally cover up the flat affect with a faked genial emotion in order to fit in. If Jeremiah is someone artificially made into a Psychopath by the gas, then perhaps the reason for his flat affect is that he was unwittingly thrust into this personality disorder, meaning he hasn't learned to properly mask his emotional flatness with a "normal" expression. So that one is perhaps a little closer to the DSM categorizations. I really don't know what to make of Jerome, though. It doesn't seem like his emotional bouncehouse-ness is faked, though he certainly is very skilled at acting (also akin to certain instances of ASPD, though not all). I dunno
@@briang.2218 As I commented in another "Valeska Bros vid" I believe the gas had nothing to do with Jeremiah`s psychopathy, it just unmasked his disorder, but he has always been like that. In other words, Jerome was a sociopath due to his abusive mother and overall, aversive childhood, while Jeremiah is the typical natural born psychopath, who used to hide it with his nerdy mask of sanity till the gas exposed him out. If you ask me, Jerome can almost fit (Almost) into Borderline personality disorder, he is like an emotional windmill, and if we look at his past… well, you got it. Jeremiah is indeed totally psychopathic. Excuse my english I`m french.
I change my mind, I don’t hate Jeremiah. I love a bad guy that can have backup plans for his backup plans. He’s smart yet evil 😍 I just hope he picks up the laugh in 5
This is amazing Cameron Monaghan is so talented, I love Jerome and Jeremiah. I am very inspired from Cam I could never play two characters at once but i would take Jerome over Jeremiah any day
Jeremiah is a psychopath who led Jerome into being a sociopath who in return led Jeremiah into being the joker. So all this started because their mom didn't know what protection meant.
@@reaper7328 well Statically Sociopaths are More Ruled by there Emotions, they’re Quick to Act, while Psychopaths are Calmer they Think Things Through Statically. In a Simple Way Psychopaths are ‘born’ while Sociopaths are ‘created’, so Yes Jeremiah would be the Psychopath, he’s the One that Thought Things Threw, he Manipulated Everyone Around Him, Made them Believe he was Innocent, and He Accidentally Created/ Caused his Brother, Jeromes Full Fledge Sociopathic Tendencies. But Jerome caused Jeremiah to Let Go of the Mask Of Innocence He Created for Himself. They were both Crazy from the Beginning, they just Feed into Each Other, Created and Molded the Other, Imagine if they Had Worked Together. Jerome was the Wild Insanity while Jeremiah was the Sane Insanity, still both Crazy.
The Valeska Twins Jerome : Proto Joker / Clown Boy He is Insane He has a mission Jeremiah : Proto Joker? He is Evil He has a vision Mr. J : He is both of them combine.
I'd switch the Evil and insane parts. Jeremiah thinks that he is doing sane and good things, which makes him crazier, however Jerome was aware of his insanity and he enjoyed being evil.
I think Cameron Monaghan is for now the best JOKER Actor ( Joaquin Phoenix we will see?). He plays two different Joker Characters like Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger with a voice like Mark Hamill in the Gotham Series. And he is only 25 years old and the the youngest Joker Actor!!!
@XXXCARTOON I watch the show with subtitles. When they showed who was speaking, the subtitles said "Joker" rather than Jerome. Not sure if they did the same for Jeremiah though...
He is the joker in comics and in the movies,but in this video he's the younger version of joker as you can see Bruce Wayne A.K.A BATMAN is in his teen P.s no hate just love😇
Dont know if people noticed but the way he sits in the Jail cell staring at Gordon while all other cops look at him @ 1:39:20 Its like an exact replica of Heath's Joker in the Dark Knight. All thats missing is the clapping.
I feel like Jerome is the more crazy and fun version while jerimiah is cold and calculating type . Both are amazing but I love jerimah more than Jerome . I also think that Jerome and jerimahs personality combined would make the joker
