Jim's death (Rockstar Logic #1 - GTA IV) 

Johnny kidnapped Roman, Niko killed some of the Lost members. Both don't realize they've been doing harm to each others people lol

I think johnny contacted ashley because he feared that ray would use her to get johnny, pretty smart if you ask me.

it feels like The lost and damned is missing like 10 missions. It seemed to escalate so quickly without reason. You kill Brian off pretty early, do a few missions for ray, and then go kill Billy. Jim just dies off screen which is pretty lame. We needed more to this story

Jim didn't deserve to Die. He was a true Soldier, man

4:01 Some realistic shit right there, I mean...sometimes we mess up our words

I'm adding on to what others have said now, after thinking about it for a while: Johnny shows up, gives Jim and baldy the money. Perhaps after Johnny left, Jim gave the money to baldy to hold on to and hide it, probably inside one of the buildings they were outside of. Jim gets abducted, and him and his bike are brought to Ray's restaurant, where he is tortured. Johnny comes and saves him, Jim tells him he'll get the brothers but first he goes to get the money. He meets baldy at the building and parks his bike right next to his, while another biker, long hair, shows up and parks his bike at the other end. Both of them guard the outside of the building while Jim goes in to retrieve the money. Niko shows up, and baldy, in the heat of the moment, gets onto Jim's bike while long-hair gets on baldy's, leaving Niko to chase after them with long-hair's bike. Considering one of the bikes blew up, I'm sure it'd be hard to identify that one, so baldy riding Jim's would make more sense. The police identified baldy as Jim due to the make of the bike, not appearance. A crackerjack job by the LCPD, if you ask me. Overall, Jim takes the money and hightails it with his family out of Liberty City. BOOM.

Does anybody else agree that both Ray's "No's" and his " I'll See You Later" was hilarious? 😂😂😂

Me and my friend was talking about this last week. I didn't even remember Jim dying I thought he survived. It was confusing since he's a fat bald dude in GTA IV apparently. I thought he was alive and was thinking what if he went to Los Santos to avenge Johnny's death. But that's clearly not possible. I don't understand why Rockstar made this part of the story so confusing. We get to see where the diamonds end up at the end of TBoGT but not the money. That's pretty dumb.

6:41 *“Shiet, Dats de kocsacker dat johnny ripped off for de diamond loot.”* ~ Fake Jim, 2008

I miss jim,..He was an amazing character..

6:41 probably the worst voice acting in GTA IV

I loved Jonny and Jim's friendship! That scene where they just look at each other and smile is one of my faves! They didn't need to kill them off...

That was obviously jim's body double and he fled to Vice City with the money. One does not simply bet Johnny's balls and then die, we'll have to wait until GTA VI /s

This confused me because we never see his death in the game beside being told about it. Really good video

you should make a video called Rockstar logic regarding Vic vance's death.

Some answers to your questions: 1. That actually have no clear answer. There was another biker with him at that alley, maybe he was trying to come up with a plan with said biker when Niko showed up? 2. Remember that the events of "No Way on the Subway" and "Was it Worth it?" happen at the same time, so one could argue that Terry and Clay were already busy helping Johnny fight off Ray's goons while Jim was being chased by Niko. Once the shoot out whit the goons was finished it was already too late to save Jim. 3. The most likely theory is that Rockstar did not want to spoil Jim's fate in GTA IV. So they used a different character model in IV to represent Jim. If they used Jim's actual character model in IV, the players who paid attention to the game would immediately recognize Jim in TLAD and already know that he would die by Niko's hands. 4. Johnny mentions at the end of TLAD that the money was delivered to Jim's wife, to help her raise her and Jim's son without a father. There was no point in keeping the money to the gang, since The Lost was pretty much finished by the end of TLAD.

Most likely theories are that Rockstar either fucked up big time, or that they have made that on purpose, meaning that Jim might reappear in a future GTA. Look at that - he took the cash. Couldn't it go like that that when he left the alley with that biker, he stashed the cash at some safe place. Sooner or later he might've been kidnapped by Ray, for example, some goons cornered him and had him beaten up, I dunno on that part. So as Jim is in the basement, Johnny comes there. Then they escape. In the meantime, the unnamed Biker comes back to the alley. Ray tells Niko to go to that alley - it was the last hangout of Jim, so he suspects they fled there. This doesn't happen though. Johnny fights the Italians in the meantime, while Jim escapes to Thomas Stubbs in order to cover up everything - he pays him the money he got from Johnny in order to go into hiding. The cover up thing came very nicely together - Jim planned to make the news say it was him that gets killed. However, since Niko killed the Biker and his friend JUST as he was planning it with Stubbs, he could have used that story so they identificate him instead of the biker. So technically, it's that Jim goes into WitSec, kinda betraying the Lost by faking his death and taking the cash for him. Wouldn't this be possible? (lol what a wall of text lmao).

Another question: How did Ray got calmed so quickly? I mean he has lost one of his men in front of him, and Johnny and Jim escaped

you deserve more subscribers man, you have awesome content!

As for Ray catching Jim, Ray associated with the Lost and prolly knew their hangouts well, likely had his guys to snatch up Jim since Ray nvr rly did shit, himself...and they must've caught Jim while he was alone, after stashing the money. Other comments has stated my same thoughts on why Johnny wanted to contact Ash, I have no guess for the remaining questions.

4:01 Jim do a beatbox

Maybe they were sitting in the alley after Johnny gave them the money and ray texted Jim to come to the restaurant and he left the money with the other biker and he hid it or gave it to someone and either stayed at the alley or went back to it waiting for Jim. After Johnny and Jim get away from Ray, Jim probably goes back to the alley.

Just another reason why Rockstar should remaster GTA 4

The guy who voices Jim does a damn good job

This error bothered me, I know the bald White guy was supposed to be Jim since it said in the LC paper, but I still refuse to believe it. I like to think Niko killed TLAD Jim off screen.

Why was Ray just casually chilling in the restaurant after his henchman was killed and narrowly escaping death? When Ray tells Nico to deal with the bikers, he acts like that whole ordeal with Jim and Johnny never even happened in the basement.

Amazing video man... i can see that you really worked hard on this one im really impressed

I like to think that since some characters look different and sound different throughout ewch story it's what the character remembers them looking like or sounding like.

the truth is that despite being great, the DLC has big plot holes, probably because it was only thought of after the release of GTA IV, so it was disjointed and the pieces were put together to form the story, I found it very fun, but out of nowhere it arrives That explosive ending didn't make any sense to me. But it's fun and worth it, you can't get attached to the details.

3:22 white line on Johnny K's face. Maybe it was breaking :P

While Rockstar obviously messed this up, I contribute Jim looking different in L&D to GTA IV being centered around Niko. From Niko's perspective, he just went in to do the job. There is no incentive for Niko to remember details like how they look or who they are (Ray doesn't give him much to work with other than "bikers"), only what is necessary towards his objective. All they were to him were targets. This could explain why Luis and Johnny look different as well. Its Niko's perspective.

4:50 this is the last time Johnny see jim alive...did he get killed by Niko...or did he fake his death and take off with the money and meet up with his family to escape the game.....guess we will never find out

1:29, on the right, we see the green sabre...

Ray had some of the most aimless ass comebacks in that torture scene lol

The money was already split after Johnny gave it to Jim. You get a cut of it when you complete the mission in TLAD. So that was Johnny's cut, the rest of it was probably given back to the Club house and to be divided by Johnny. In the epilogue of TLAD Johnny said in a phone call that he will give the rest of the cash to Jim's family. So Jim is dead for sure and the cash was used in the end. That clears up one loose end.

You're not rewarded 2 mil from the museum mission, but I thought the Lost still ended up with it & Jim had stashed it at the clubhouse...maybe not, but since in the last phone call with Angus, Johnny mentioned sending money to Jim's wife&kid, I was thinkin' he meant cuts from the 2 mil...or maybe just money they had left over, but Johnny didn't mention Ray's money missing.

To answer question 5: I believe Johnny wanted to contact Ashley because she was sleeping with Ray, which Johnny knew. He though Ashley should know Ray was now an enemy of the Lost MC, and he would want to warn her against giving any information to him Now, I believe this is what happened: In GTA IV, Jim is not the bald guy, but the silent ponytail haired one, as he doesn't speak, he doesn't reveal his voice, making more sense. Alson, in TLaD, we can see a bald biker standing next to Jim, which kind of proves it. The bald biker is inmortal until they leave the metro station, while the hairy one, which I believe it's Jim, can be gunned down at any point, even way before going inside the metro tunnel. If you don't shoot him, he crashes into a train. Now, Niko shoots Jim, who was holding the money. Jim, however, survives that attempt and tries to get away while Niko is still chasing the bald guy, but he doesn't take time to get the money, as he is so injured he just cares for nothing but his own life. If the briefcase is in the metro tunnels, it would eventualle be destroyed by the first train that runs over it, hence the money is lost forever. Eventually, Jim would be caught by Ray's goons, captured and tortured. Johnny then rescues him, but Ray sends lots of cars to chase them both down. Since Terry and Clay are the ones protecting Johnny, Jim would be left alone, making him an easy target to the hitmen, specially since he's already been shot down by Niko and tortured in the basement before I know Rockstar wanted Jim to be the one Niko kills in GTA IV and everything I said before is clearly non cannon, but it's the theory that makes the most sense, since the plot as it was written has a lot of holes...

5:17 how can he ride like that, while in telephone😂

About Jim's goon and the corner on V and Ecxeter, my theory is that they got split up (Ray got caught, goon escaped) and that he left the case in Jim's place (or his place) before Ray contacted him, they agreed to meet up right there to discuss their next step, call his other guys and everything goes downhill from there. Also, lets pretend the dialogue at 6:41 NEVER HAPPENED and that Jim got freaked out and got in the bike.

Johnny: hold onto the money ok? Jim: bet your balls on it! Few hours later Ashley: Jim’s dead Johnny: damn what I gonna do with my balls now?

well its possible he actually is alive. it would make sense. he takes the diamond money, pins his death on the random biker and leaves the city to Los santos or vice city. he has a family and probably couldnt take the heat so he became LOST. If Jim survived he'll be in Gta 6

Wonder why no-one's made a mod or something along those lines to try and rectify this discrepancy. It's strange.

Maybe I missed something but how do you know the bald guy is supposed to be Jim? Why not the long-haired one if bald is also with Jim in GTA IV?

Another Rockstar logic: how do Ray's goons know where to find Johnny and where to follow him?

Jim was such a good character

Things Johnny is Afraid: =Downfall of Lost MC =Ray =Trevor

*Ring Ring* Jim: "Meet me at Ray's..." *What? Oooohhhh* That timing

No lo sé, simplemente debe de ser un error de Rockstar, no lo investigue pero creo que debe de ser un error de Rockstar y nada más, en ese entonces no lo debían de tener completado al personaje de Jim, un ejemplo es Luiz López, en el juego gta4 dónde aparece no es la versión final de el. Ya que en ese entonces se estaba desarrollando el DLC no?! Solo es mi punto de vista. Acepto cualquier respuesta y díganme si me equivoqué en algo porfavor. Muchas gracias.

I read on GTA Wiki that Johnny (cage? kidding :p) sent the stolen money to Jim's family after his death

My theory would be that Jim wanted to fake his death so he had those two bikers and had one of them pretended to be Jim. I believe Jim left Liberty City with his wife and kid along with the money. Perhaps he probably moved to Vice City.

5:16 omg I can't breathe lol

7:28 i think this guy was meant to be Jim,because the bald one that you kill last is seen with him when you go there as Johnny to drop the cash. Back when GTA 4 came out they didn't have TLAD and TBOGT in mind. You could tell that by Johnny and Luis' GTA 4 models that are lower res and less detailed than the ones in the DLC,and Tony's clubs did not exist on the GTA4 map either while the lost clubhouse also looked very low res and different and i think the AOD clubhouse didn't exist either

10:15 "not Jim" is Jim for me because he's very similar to Jim :P

DEADASS JUST NOTICED MY BOY JIM WEARING TIMBS 😤😤

I know it was confirmed that, that guy was original Jim but I like to believe TLAD retconned that Jim gave that guy the money to protect it and the two guys Niko kills are different we'll call the bald guy (original Jim) Harry and the second guy James or Charles or Mitch or something whatever he doesn't matter. and Niko kills them and takes the money. Jim gets captured by some of Ray's guys. Niko hasn't got to him with the money yet Jim and Johnny escape we'll just say why Ray was mad that Jim killed that guy cause that was his brother in law or something so he sends a bunch of guys for a hit on Johnny and Jim. Johnny survives cause of Clay and Terry's help (optional for you if not cause main character plot armor) but Jim because he didn't have anyone to back him up doesn't make it back to the club in time and gets killed by Ray's guys by this time Niko gets ray the money. Just my own little headcanon

7:30 I love how his bike explodes from a train, launching whats left of his flaming body, just to get ran over from another train

Jim switched identities with that bald dude, which means the real Jim is still out there

The biggest logic here is that the two of them got a bead on ray. They should’ve just killed him. The only reason that they didnt kill him is because he is supposed to appear in the later part of GTA iv.

Rockstar can tell good stories (GTA IV is a prime example), but sadly, I just think they have trouble keeping details like Jim being dead cohesive throughout the main game and the LaTD dlc. It's like how Vic Vance, according to Rockstar, died at the beginning of VC when the drug deal with Tommy went south because of Diaz's guys shooting him down. My biggest gripe with that logic: That CAN'T be Vic mainly because of what happens at the end of VCS which takes place 2 years prior. Vic tells Lance he wants nothing more to do with the whole drug and crime game. Yet, when VC happens, using Rockstar's ass-backwards logic, Vic SOMEHOW gets pulled back into the game by Lance, and apparently gains quite a bit of weight, and sounds more Spanish when he talks with Tommy before getting shot down. It doesn't matter if VC was made first, the continuity is still WRONG! As far as I'm concerned, even though he lost his girlfriend, and his life fell apart, Vic still supported his girlfriend's sister and daughter, while Lance pulled in the 3rd brother (Pete), and THAT was who got shot down. So Vic was still alive in the end... Hey, that makes more sense than what Rockstar pulled out of their asses.

Jim isn't dead. he is on the beach in vice city with most of the 2 million.... i think. whoever that was in the alley, it CLEARLY was not the right Jim.

WTF that wasn't Jim.. For your awesome content, you should have 1M subscribers :/

Your content is insanely well produced. I subbed, and am glad to say i'll be watching a ton of your videos. I hope your fanbase picks up soon, i've never seen a youtuber that deserves it as much.

My theory: -he went to that alley and waited for more of his brothers to come expecting some tough guys and try and fight them, but Niko got there earlier -when he saw Niko he didn't look at him as much of a threat (underestimated him) so he wanted to challenge him, but he got killed in the end Theory 2: -he got killed by Ray's henchmen and it happened to be in the subway just after Niko killed these two, and the news thought he was related to the chase (technically, it's possible :P)

Great video as always. Very well detailed and researched.

Jim Fitz having the wrong model in GTAIV can be fixed with mods at least Returning to Exeter and Vauxter or whatever could be explained as Jim stashing the cash there, which would also explain why he doesn't have it on him What really bothers me is how quickly you go from giving the cash to Jim, to Ray telling you he's suspicious of you, to Jim being interrogated by Ray a Ray's restaurant.

I literally see no continuity errors at all. The game, almost every game, has things happen off camera at an unreal speed. Realistically the events in the game happen over months to a year or so but in play time it happens in less than a single day if you speed run.

Damn, I forgot how much I loved _The Lost And Damned_.

I love how all these stories tie together.

Jim looks like the TF2 Demoman in the Thumbnail xD

Maybe it's two different Jim's but we never recognized the white guy as Jim. We just saw him as a random biker

5:40 lmaoo nikos response is legendary

Tlad proves that the bald headed dude is definitely not Jim. That baldy dude was the original Jim in Gta 4. But they changed everything in Tlad. They completely changed Jim. So, to confirm that the bald dude ain't Jim, the bald biker was also there. Which proves that Jim crashed onto the moving train(the other biker).

Johnny K played by Johnny CAGE Get it??

So... theories: 1-yep he did not , after that he was probably roaming around algoquin 2-as some people said, maybe he left the money nearby the alley, one reason to go back there... ooor maybe he had the time to let the money at his actual house...? I dunno 3-as they went out the alley maybe they went separate ways, then when Jim said he was gonna contact the brothers,maybe the alley was a meeting point again? another reason to go back... 4-Ray seems to have a lot of contacts, I think after he called Johnny he sent some goons looking for some LOST Bikers,as Jim was still in algoquin they got him first 5-Not sure, probably because he started working with Ray because of her so she could have been kidnapped too?

Im pretty sure Johnnys' death in GTA V didnt make sense since he was still alive long enough to kill the president of the club in Lost and the Damned, and when he dies in V, Trevor tells that same guy Johnny was supposed to have killed.

Did the sit down with Niko, Bill and Ray happen before Jim was tortured?

How about: Jim got a heads up that Ray was after him, so he hid the stuff in Exeter itself and then tried to flee. Somehow, Ray catches Jim and probably kills the other biker. Thus, Jim goes back for the money before being chased by Niko.

4:10 guys, I think ray misunderstood me, sorry.

not Jim is actually jim

I've always wondered about all of that, glad there's a video clarifying it up

If Johnny akcnowledged that Niko killed his best friend, he might be after him.

Here’s how it all went down: After the torture cutscene, Jim leaves to go get the brothers, and he gets on his bike with another lost member and try to get out of there and tell Terry and Clay. Somewhere near there though, one of Ray’s men kills Jim, but the biker he’s with survives and goes to Bohan to hide. The person who killed Jim tells Ray that Jim is dead and the guy he was with survived, so Ray decides to call Ashley and tell her Jim is dead and they are trying to kill Johnny. That’s when Ashley calls Johnny to warn him. The text you get from Ray is either a: from Johnny’s imagination, since you can’t see the message afterward or b: Ray still has Jim’s phone and texts Johnny that to mess with him. Ray wants the guy Jim was with to be dead too, though, so he calls Phil and Niko and tells Niko to kill that biker. Niko does, and the way he canonically kills him leaves his body hidden, and all the lcpd sees is a bike with Jim’s name on it, leaving them to assume Jim died in the subway.

Man i really love GTA IV's story, it is so tied to each other and it is so fucked up too. First, the diamonds bought by Gay Tony, then the coke, all from the place where Niko came from.

4:02 "AHHGGTTBBETHSTV BACK THE FUCK UP" Love that part.

2:36 you know what Ray should have done? He should have had a sliver platter, with a clovers over it like one of those fancy ones and underneath it the head of the other biker, the guy who was with Jim. This would have shown, he means business before showing you Jim being tortured.

damn bro, this is amazing. you realy worked hard om this one. :)

Jim was skilled ,trustworthy and a good friend but he made a mistake challenging niko

The way ray reacts when the dude got his throat sliced makes me think that ray worries about his people while Mikhail kills even the most loyal ones for looking at him in a bad way

JIM REVENGE STORY IN GTA 6

Lol Jim’s death was completely botched. He was a great character and all he gets is a line of dialogue for his death. “Oh hey btw Johnny, Jim’s dead”

why didnt they just kill Rey right there and then????

i just think jim's voice actor had to quit recording shortly after the ray part and rockstar had put a lot of effort into him so they had to quickly kill him. Not sure why they didnt use the same model though maybe the data got lost somehow

4:20 exacly right ? Aways found It Funny.. the perfect reaction after seen a employe/friend in the mob get killed.

How is Jim gonna be that bald one in gta IV when the bald one is not Jim in TLAD that one with beard is jim in IV to be honest this is felling little weird and scary when the music comes from TLAD

theory: jim made the same as michael of de santa he interchanged dead with his bald friend and make believe to the media, he was Jim so jim finally left the lost gang and he is free (?)

When i played TLAD. I didn't paid attention to how Jason and Jim got killed, until I remembered some GTA IV missions

10:16 How do you know that the bald head is Jim?

I like how Elizabeta texts Johnny the number for Roman's cab business and knows his last name is Bellic yet doesn't put two and two together that Niko is related. He gets confused when people talk about "the cousin" as if Johnny doesn't know Niko.

When niko was chasing them the bikers looked different

I wish they didn't kill off Johny in GTA V they could've made missions for Trevor where u could race with them