'Jinnah to Blame for Repeated Military Takeovers, Pakistan's Failure to Become a Credible Democracy' 

Karan interrupted and stopped further discussion when ishtiaq sir explaining their personal laws reformed better than India. We know who will get blamed for this in India. Seems this discussion is to elevate Nehru rule than knowing failed democracy in Pakistan 😅.

Karan, you are a respectful journalist. Please wait for the speaker to finish what he is saying before asking the next question or commenting. These are fundamentals that you should know.

In Pakistan General Election means the General elects whoever they select.

First time Karan owned his Father in any show, I guess. He should discuss his father's role ( Positive and Negative) in managing 1962 Chinese crisis...

India is secular and democratic due to Hinduism

The success of DEMOCRACY in India and failure of DEMOCRACY taking root in Pakistan is very well explained.Both Prof.Ishtiak Ahamed,s replies and explanation very well made and Mr.Thapar,s questions were illuminating deep 🎉🎉

Dr Ahmed began answering each question clearly and in simple language everyone can understand, I didn't see the need to interrupt him with a "In other words you're saying..." and not letting him speak beyond 1-2 sentences. I know many people like me don't care much for interviews where the interviewer does 60-70% of the speaking.

Let's see how much our desi Muslims agree with the Wire when it talks about them.

Sir ji interviewer should have asked small questions.Long high sounding questions distract listeners.Patience of Ishtiaq Sahib is great.

25:30 The Host is taken aback by the guest’s comparison of persistent regressive muslim personal laws in India, with what Ayub Khan did away in early 60’s in Pak.

It doesn't seem like an interview but a "speak what I tell you to" session with Karan. The issue with Karan is that, first of all, he always invites people who are ideologically aligned with him, and for the few times where we get learned scholars like Prof Ishtiaq, the interview is filled with Karan throwing his words in Prof Ishtiaq's mouth instead of letting him articulate in his own language. Just a suggestion, this is an online portal you have ample time and slots and are not limited to TV-based airtime, why not start a separate series of Karan's reviews on any ongoing issue, and people more interested in listening to his analysis will directly go there. Let this be an interview and not an overwhelming session of an over-enthusiastic interviewer consuming all the time providing his own opinion instead of letting the interviewee express it.

Jinnah never wanted to have any vision for Pakistan as he never believed in Islam in its true sense and thus his idea of forming an Islamic nation was self contradictory.

Jinnah died seventy-eight years ago in 1948. It is little short oh insanity to blame him for the political developments that have taken place since then and not his unworthy successors.

Jinnah was only serving the Britishers. It is gathered from various sources that Jinnah despite being a good English law Expert, but not a true Statesman.

Jinnah was the first dictator of Pakistan. He stupidly gave his first speech in Dhaka that split with East and West. Had he not been GG, millions of people would not have been slaughtered. He is the one who divided Muslims into 3 parts. He gave a confused ideology. Facts.

Yes Karan Thapar you are very right that most of the people who came to power after the creation of Pakistan had their heart in prepartition India. Even today Zia, Bajwa and now Asim Munir have their roots in the Indian part and they never wanted to share power with real sons of the soil. When they saw they wre not accepted by mainland Pakistanis they started hobnobbing with fuedal lords who exploited the poor and these guys enginneered their control.

Jinnah had no vision because Jinnah was following a mission - His Master's Voice...

Thanks to Jinnah for separating that poison filled fang from India

Prof Ahmed makes a very valid and nuanced point. Great discussion!

A discussion about the differences between India and Pakistan without any reference to the character of their role models!! Because… secularism!!

Mr Thapar, You must make a video on the reasons your dad as the General of the Indian Army failed miserably in defending the borders during the 1962 war imposed on India by China. The people of India would be interested in knowing that.

How can Pakistan fundamentally change? It cannot. It was formed, based on religion.

If only Mr. Tapar could not interfere and keep cutting Ishtiaq sb off.

Karan Thapar be like- Although it's your interview, in reality, it's my time to convey my opinion & yours as well

Thanks Pakistan Army for making our election very dramtic and entertaining 😮

Prof Ishtiaq Ji, appreciate your fearless straight talk! 👏

Jinnah helped india by diving the country but our congress foolishly allowed Muslims to stay who actually voted for Pakistan but stayed in india

Basically, it is the difference in preachings in Islam and Hinduism (or Sanatan dharm) that is at the root. Forget about why there is failure of democracy in Pak. The fact is that democracy is practically non-existent in most of the Islamic world.

If you keep blaming the dead, no solutions can be found for the living in misery.

I think that Mr. Thapar, being an intelligent & critical journalist, should have the audacity to ask the last question (which I was sure it would be but he skirted) that looking at the traversed fallacies of religion based politics of Pakistan, should India take a lesson from it ?

It is worth asking if Islam is at odds with the concept of democracy. I am reminded of a speech by Javed Akthar in Rajya Sabha where he said, if you were to travel westwards from India, you have to go all the way to Israel to see a truly democratic nation. So why aren't there more muslim majority multi-cultural democracies to the west of India? Turkey is the probably the only exception, and you can thank Ataturk for it.

In a volte face, former senior bureaucrat Liaquat Ali Chattha who alleged that 13 candidates from Rawalpindi were forcefully declared winners in elections withdraws his allegations & says he is 'extremely ashamed' over his claims. Ex-Pakistani bureaucrat retracts poll rigging allegations, claims PTI promised him 'lucrative positions' In a surprising turn of events, former Pakistani bureaucrat Liaquat Ali Chattha who leveled accusations that the country's general elections were rigged retracted all his claims saying that he made the statements after "lucrative" promises made by former PM Imran Khan's PTI party. However, now, in a letter addressed to the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) Chattha retracted his statements and revealed that his accusations were made after Imran Khan's Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) party promised him lucrative positions in exchange for supporting their narrative of election rigging and maligning state institutions. According to Chattha, a PTI leader had approached him after the February 8 elections, offering him favourable positions. He confessed to being swayed by the offer, especially considering his impending retirement after 32 years of civil service. The former bureaucrat admitted that the proposal initially involved submitting a written resignation containing the fabricated narrative, but it was later decided to stage a press conference to amplify the false claims. The aim, as Chattha revealed, was to create sensationalism and drama. "It was in this meeting, that he made an offer to me that if I play a role in supporting the PTI's ongoing narrative of rigging in elections and maligning state institutions, he would ensure a lucrative position for me in future," Chattha said. This proposal was made by the said individual in consideration of the fact that I was about to retire from service. He was also aware of the fact that I was under pressure due to this forthcoming retirement. After having remained a part of the services for 32 years, it is naturally hard for any civil servant to let go of all perks, privileges, and authorities," he added. Indicating that the plan was also approved by PTI's top leadership, he said, "Initially, it was proposed by me that I would write the entire narrative and submit the same as part of my resignation. However, this proposal was dropped by the said prominent PTI leader as such written resignation would not create any sensations for their narrative building." He mentioned that the PTI leadership instructed him to name Chief Justice Qazi Faez Isa and Chief Election Commissioner Sikander Sultan Raja to further their agenda of creating mistrust in the electoral process. Reacting to Chattha's retraction, the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) accused the PTI of attempting to manipulate the elections and tarnishing Pakistan's image. "In the end, I feel extremely ashamed and embarrassed for making totally false, concocted, anti-state, and malicious statement in the press conference. This activity caused embarrassment for me as well as for the entire bureaucratic fraternity," Chattha added.

सारॆ पाखिस्तानी और सुउर करन थापर कॆ शॊ पर ही क्यॊ आतॆ है ?

Jinnah was never a patriotic but an agent Even being a Muslim from Pakistan I don’t agree the fact that one can break the country for any possible reason

Ishtiaq Ahmed is not residing in Pakistan. He didn't voted. Karan Thapar must interview the common Pakistani who reside there. Voted in elections and will suffer from the decisions of the Pakistani establishment. This professor is residing in Sweden and is far away from the ground realities of Pakistan.

11:56 "The Muslim League Movement which won the 1946-47 elections was rabidly communal." .... Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed. In these elections the Muslim League won about 95% vote. Yet, out of approximately 3.5 crore muslims, only about 75 lakhs went to Pakistan. Instead of pleading with muslims to stay back in India and thereafter giving them a privileged community status, why did Nehru and Gandhi not ensure that all these "Radidly Communal" people go to Pakistan? Dr. Ambedkar, one of the wisest leaders of India has stated that partition cannot be completed without 100% exchange of population.

We are a mess,our lives,our future uncertain.

Time for Karan Thapar to retire due to bad performance at the "job of interviewing". Such retirees should speak to the mirror.

Karan Thapar is nicely cutting an important point that Ahmed ji was telling about getting away with regressive Islamic laws 25:37

Chronology of Partition of India 1. Census of India in 1871 (by Britisher) 2. Separate/Communal Electorate in1909 (by Britisher) 3. Lahore Resolution in 1940 (by Britisher)

Dr Ahmed is a great analyst.

Good interview. But, for god’s sake Karan, please let him complete the sentences. He speaks plain English which we understand very well. Summing up with 5 sentences for every one sentence of your guest isn’t helping. Second, he’s a guest and we don’t need to add adjectives after adjectives to Pakistan’s leaders to a point of cringe. You could’ve been a bit more magnanimous actually. Otherwise all good.

Today's program was unique! An avowed Anti India paid journo with a Pakistani who speaks with a forked tongue. Ishtiaq says pro India words when he is being hosted by Indians. He is a Muslim masquerading as a socialist. He justified Hamas hostage taking on 07.10. He refuses to condemn Islamic Jihad in Kashmir - I personally gave him proof of what happened with Kashmiri Pandits. Good combination.

Thappars problem is he has to repeat what the other person says but makes it his own spin. He likes to hear his own voice.

Karan, with all due respect sir why you have to always sum up and paraphrase everything that Dr Ishtiaq ahmed says, he speaks way better English for common people to understand , by paraphrasing everything it seems like you want to hear what you like to hear and not open to the discussion in a rational way

the interruption by anchor, especially when the participant says things that is not pleasing to anchor is very disappointing. It's good to note that Ayub Khan did social reform that so called secular Nehru failed to do, who, despite claiming to be secular passed civil laws based on religion.

Thapar should let the interviewee speak, not cut him all the time.

Because Jennah was working on behalf of English and thats why he doesn't have any version and he was sick old men and punjabi elite with their army killed him to take over this vissionless country and elite gived him the vission of Islamic theology..they knew that this the only common thing the children of this forced marriage have the provenances .

It's accurate to say that an entire Corrupt Military Pakistan Generals acts in a unified way based on the directions of USA. In both nations, there are mechanisms in place to do corruption by Corrupt Military Pakistani Generals and allegations should be investigated through proper channels to ensure justice and accountability.Pakistan Corrupt army Generals have raised serious doubts about their ability to lead our armed forces effectively. It is evident that the morale of the troops has been negatively affected, and public trust in the army's leadership is at stake.

Thappar is a genius at rhetorical questions ! He has mastered it well!

Shame on the Pakistan military establishment and the corrupt politicians who looted Pakistan

Indian Media's "Unhealthy obsession" with Pakistan continues.

Urdu has been a significant part of Islamic identity in the subcontinent, while one’s mother tongue is often linked to cultural identity. When local languages were replaced by Urdu, it inadvertently distanced people from their cultural roots, replacing it with an Islamic identity. Consequently, to find purpose in their lives, they establish ancestral connections with those who introduced them to Islam, often through forceful means. Since they feel disconnected from their roots in the subcontinent, they are constantly in search of a political structure like the Ummah or a Caliphate, where they might be subjects, despite the system’s imperfections. This is seen as a testing ground, and the fear of eternal damnation often leads many to adhere to the tenets of Islam, regardless of how harsh they may seem. It’s interesting to note that when Muslims renounce their faith, they often develop a newfound appreciation for their homeland

For once, Karan DID NOT bad mouth Modi 😆

(Reducing Corruption) I challenge Transparency International that Transparency International's report on corruption in Pakistan is based on lies? Judiciary is corrupt and is providing protection to every wrongdoing and corruption. With this corrupt judiciary, the economy can never recover. Corrupt institutions are making the situation worse in Pakistan. #anticorruption

The CJP took away the PTI election symbol, also he approved the staff from beurocracy instead of judiciary to oversee the polling

The real answer for the your question is that why, after independence, the leaders of India and of Pakistan, especially the military setup of both countries, tread different directions is vitally played out by the religions. India and its whole independence was spearheaded by mainly Hindus who were seeking a democratic ruling systems whereas Muslims were only after their region so were the Sikhs. Wherever you go , whatever interpretation you try to saturate, the ultimate answer is the region and what it makes you up.

In future in India will be heading towards same kind of political process

Big fan of Karan, but please let Professor Ahmed complete his sentences. Rather than summing up his premise, better if he asked actual questions and counter his arguments.

Finality of the prophet is the grand narrative which has impeded Pakistan from emerging as a democratic country- Prof. I. Ahmed has identified the core issue confronting Pakistan. its a pleasure to listen to this kind of talk.

What about the outsiders like US, UK, and terrorists???

Muhammad Ali Jinnah had no idea of so many Traitors in the Army. He passed away One Year after Pakistan became a Country.

The professor has brought out the nuances with clarity while answering g the loaded and blunt questions

@10:10. Karan: You're saying something very profound. Dr. Ishtiaq: Because I am a political scientist and not just a journalist. I feel by this point Dr. Ishtiaq had had enough of Mr. Thapar's constant interruptions.

Mr jinnah was a British trained alcohol consuming and prohibited meat eating Ismaili shia trying to govern a non urdu speaking sunni population who were forced to speak an imported language What could go wrong?

Imraan i believe is paying for his sins of cricket playing days. He was part of a Pakistan cricket team which played with 13 players. He benifired from the same. A play boy has turned momin.

It looks like the interviewer wants his own rants to dominate the entire proceedings than the other person

Missed a great opportunity to listen to Mr. Ishtiaq due to interviewer unfortunately

Brilliant interview. Thank you for doing this.

Allah will take care of Pakistan. Allah willing!

Excellent Analys of this Genralistan .

It was because of the militarisation of the economically dominant province of Punjab, which is the single most dominant province and the center of Pakistan. Please read Prof. Tan Tai Yong's book The Garrison State, published way before Prof. Ishtiak's book. Prof. Ishtiak has completely minimized and ignored the Punjabi elite's role in inculcating a culture that accepts and depends on military interference in all state institutions.

Partition was not because of Jinnah or Gandhi.It was British 100 year vision, Pakistan was given 33% of the army Nehru and other Indian leaders don’t want part of India now Pakistan because of its latent defects.

Excellent candid insightful sincerely honest

Woud have been interesting to know how ataturk managed to create a create a secular turkey (till Erdoğan came along) but why gen ayub khan wasnt able to do the same in pakistan

Excellent interview. Both brilliant

I don’t know how was he able to get his PhD if he failed to address the elephant in the room: Two major points: #1. Prof failed to address international factors, ( i.e US pressure to topple govts and Support for puppet govt by Army). #2. Pakistan was created in rush, because Jinnah foresee what’s going on in India. Discrimination against Muslims. It wasn’t created to be secular democracy but as an Islamic republic. Just because he in his short visit to India get to have good time doesn’t mean that’s how the average Muslim of India is treated.

Excellent and quality scholarly discussion.

Quite an interesting and engrossing interview . Keep it up 👏🏽

Same is happening in India now in Modi times in different ways .Now Indian is fundamentally Hindu state not for Muslims.Sorry to listen Muhammad Ali Jinnah never like these British trained generals but these got strong hold with help of British establishments.

Karan, please stop interrupting your guests just because they don't give you the answer you want. These are intellectuals who have a lot to share.

Mr Ahmad is an intelligent person, I keep listening to him . He will say spade a spade

No respectful journalist waste their time on Pakistan!

Excellent conversation ❤️❤️❤️ nothing but facts ❤️❤️❤️

Pakistan has hope if it still can produce people like prof. Ishtiaq.

All Indians should be grateful to jinnah for saving us 😂

Sirs,Mr Jinnah's mission was not so much for muslims as was against hindus while he was a 2nd generation hindu convert. His legacy of animosity towards hindus was picked up at once by Pakistan army and the rest is history.

Mr Istiaq you underestimate Imran Khan that very poor of your vision on Pakistani Youth! Pakistani are very open minded and always welcome our brothers from India...

Deep inside there is a very valuable lesson for India and us.

Excellent talk ! Thanks Mr Thapar. Will our so-called 'Hindu Rastra' seekers take a lesson from such an important discussion?

Very gopd Point raised by Pakistan. Democracy didn't take root in Pakistan because the Muhajjirs ___ who are strangers in new Pakistan, they didn't fit anywhere , had NO Local LOYALTY and they ahd good alliance with Punjab, Sindh Feudal Class, Islamists and even Army --- have all Colluded with each other to Preserv their Status Quo ans Oppose Democracy, impose Dictatorship. Mostly its the Muhajjirs who faced rhe most insecurity like Jinnah and didnt trust locals .

Karan Thapar did his homework well. Prof Ahmed is a lucid historian and he is explaining the tragedy of Pakistan in many parts of India during his visits. Prof Surender Bhutani in Warsaw (Poland)

That's why mostly intellectual people don't live in papistan.

There are no linching are killing of Hindus in Pakistan. Only temple wad destroyed in Pakistan, but rebuild by government. Compare that to animosity against Muslims and destruction of musjids in India.

Was it not on the premise that Islam and Hinduism were two-nations, declared first by Sayyad Ahmed Khan in 1889 that the Muslim League and Jinnah had achieved creation of Pakistan? Therefore, democracy is incompatible for Pakistan and theology was congenital. Then, why waste time on democratic pretensions?

Such a learned Political Scientist he is..

SALUTE TO A BRAVE AND FEARLESS JOURNALIST.

Blasphemy laws are present in several other so called democratic countries. May be in Pakistan Blasphemy law there is room for improvement

Dr Ishtiaq's message from his research is for any country, any multi-denominational democracy. He brings out the serious damage which is inflicted on democracy, once religion is brought into its political space. This dangerous combination of religion with politics destroyed multi-denominational Yugoslavia , broke it into 7 entities. The Buddhist monks in Myanmar are using the military as its instrument in Myanmar to stir up nationalism against non Budhist minorities. A country which is extremely rich in natural resources has been fighting civil wars for over 64 years. And wherever religion is used by politicians, destruction of any democratic society follows.

Thank you Karan , you are simply the best