Which do you prefer - Jnats or Coticules? Why? Leave a comment below and share your thoughts. Etsy Shop - www.etsy.com/shop/tomonagura Website - www.tomonagura.com
I like both.That being said. The Jnat or even a Hard ark edge..Is just a different beast..I like a super sharp edge.However I really ENJOY the edge from a good coticule. The comfort is nearly perfect,A part of the fun with a coticule is getting that edge as keen as possible. When I can get a comfortable against the grain pass with a coticule I pretty much stick with that. The smooth comfortable Coticule edge is really amazing.The Jnat sharp edge is also really impressive..But that smooth Coticule is what keeps me enjoying a straight razor.It’s THE reason to shave with a straight.Comfort. Sharp can be found elsewhere.But that smooth SR feel…That’s unique.
Awesome videos. I can appreciate where you’re coming from and like your attitude Keith. I’m partial to the coticule as that’s what I started with. I lucked out with mine... it’s a fast cutter and sets an amazing bevel. Keep up the good work Keith! Maybe some day I’ll venture out and try the jnat. Thanks for the videos. Quite entertaining.
Catching up on the back catalogue, and another quality contribution - I have a few coticules now and enjoy them but still learning how to get the best edge I can. For now I still end up with CrOx. :) Thanks Keith - keep honing, keep having fun!
Excellent no bs discussion. I moved from de razors into straights years ago. Then promptly left. There were way too many know it alls, too many methods, stroke counting and all for natural stones.
Hey Keith, love this video. I like both Jnats and Cots, I find Jnats to be more sharp feeling than soft feeling and coticules to be more soft feeling than sharp feeling. My skin seems to prefer the coticule feel over the Jnat. I finish all my Wade and Butcher blades on coticules, there's just nothing like Sheffield steel finished on my blue/yellow combo coticule. Looking forward to your next video.
I am still jumping around and trying out different stones. I am leaning towards the hybrid coticules but they are harder to find and always expensive but i like the finishing options they have. Jnats are super beautiful, i love that "zen" from honing on them. Honestly just wish I could find a stone that can give a finish fine enough for a comfy shave with my course hair.
It's entirely possible that you already own the stone you seek, but you have not yet found the path to the top of that particular mountain. Patience, and practice go hand in hand here - and sometimes, it just takes more time. You'll get there.
Great vid, I enjoyed the conversation ;) You bring up some key reasons why I stay away from forums lately, as well. I'd rather chat with regular folks who just enjoy shaving. As for the stones, I enjoy all varieties and hone on both jnats and coticules equally. Well, maybe not entirely equally, I find myself reaching for jnats in the finishing stage more often. I find I can achieve a more comfortable/smooth edge that way, almost every time.
I’m a fan of both. Bought a few JNats from you about 10 years ago and they are sublime. I think I prefer the JNats myself but will always love my coticles While I haven’t shaved in years... yeah I went all ZZTop, lol, I do use them all for a mirror edge on some of my pocket knives. I learned how to sharpen for straight razors but it has treated me well for my kitchen and other knives. And my friends’ and my family’s lol. Thanks again. Subscribing!
excellent way to present both honing systems 💈 I don't have the experience with a coticule to get consistent edges I like, but when I do, they are very comfortable and l don't have to wear a ninja suit! 😉
Convexity - if it's not a word it should be. I think that's exactly right. I'm into shaving with straights for the art of it. I enjoy my coticule edges immensely - two particular razors of mine absolutely will not nick me no matter what sloppy technique I use. I did alot of experimenting with coticules before settling down to one and refining my honing technique on it. I've never shaved off or honed with a jnat and, to be honest, the terminology etc is a little intimidating. I'll keep watching your videos for more insight.
If I had to narrow it down I'd say I like the smoothness of Coticule and the aggressiveness of jnat edges, one not being better than the other just different. The difference for me using both is the tells on Coticules are a lot more subtle than jnats, when to stop or move on on the former is not as obvious. I'm feeling you on the rounded bevel coticule thing, the whole shape and integrity on the bevel is less pronounced on Coticules than on basically every other honing medium, this may be a factor why some find them difficult or inconsistent to use. The dilocut is a good platform to start I broke away from it and do my own thing but I will say it involves circles and more than one drop of water, thick or pasty slurry is not your friend where Coticules are involved. Great conversation, share your experiences.
I'm finding that my face prefers the edge off of a coticule then off of a JNAT. With the JNAT I get nicks, cuts and irritation. Off of the coticule, I don't get much if any of that. That is a coticule with water only, no slurry.
Keith I love Coticules and Jnat's. However, unlike most people I don't use slurry. I got my Cuticule from Jared, at Superior. It came with a slurry stone. I just use plain running water. I hone with 5k and finish with my Cuticule. It take about 10 minutes on running water. Im told that in the past, Coticules were not sold with slurry stones. I finish it off on your Firehose and mustang Horse hide strops .It works great for me. Jnat's give me a sharper edge, with a completely different feel on my skin. (Off topic) I also like ILR finishes for my skin. I alternate between the three. I don't meant to ruffle feathers, i'm just offering my honest opinion. In your word " joining the party."
It is believed that use of slurry on Coticules was a major advancement in sharpening technique that eluded the sharpeners from long ago. At least, that's how it seems. Nobody was around back then so we can only really guess. I have seen 1800s price sheets that listed 'rubber' stones for Coticules - so, who knows. These days, some use oil, some use water, some use slurry, some do not use slurry. Lots of techniques out there. Personally, I get the sharpest Coti edges when I handle a dulicot correctly. Sometimes I finish on slurry, other times water, sometimes running water - depends on the stone.
Nice video, I have all Naniva's from 1K to 12K, but rarely use them, I find that when I need a touch up, my Coticule and blue belgian gives a more pleasant shave, and I shave daily. But it's rarely I need it, stropping and paste stropping gives for me a realy usefull tool
excellent topic Keith... the problem of some is their way of thinking and approaching things... where they must have a list of the best stones sorted in polish rate or fastness or whatever..... I like how you look at it ... different flavours :) like having more than one perfume it just depends on the occasion and my mood as simple as that.... but some don't get it.... even such questions is very wide open, what JNat and what Coticule are we talking about.... I always have hard time selling my Coticules I always regret it, unlike my JNat which I rotate continuously except few stones.... I just like them all except the stones from Britain never had good luck with them. regards
Of all my stones the jnat gives me the best edj for shaving. Now I do use other different combinations of stones depending on how old and hard the blade is but l always end up using the jnat as the final stone.
I love both coticules and Jnats. For coticules mine have to be hard, fast, and fine. Some of the recent ones are too soft and slow imo. I like to raise a big slurry and just do x strokes s until it gets smooth and then add a drop of water. repeat. sometimes I add a jnat after because it's fun.
Having only used JNAT, I cannot really offer and opinion. However, I will share with my favorite FB wet shaving groups to promote some healthy discussion and I'll probably learn a thing or two on the differences.
Great video Keith, personally I prefer Jnats. I just can't seem to get a decent edge with a coticule. I know it's probably just my technique. I have tried slurry, no slurry, under running water only, you name it, all with sub par results for me. Also I seem to get a lot of edge chipping with a coticule.
Great vid Keith I had a coti and sold it I dnt have a jnat I have some kind of ocean jasper the seller said it has a hardness if 4 well ok I guess it is harder then my ark but the edge off my Belgium blue is kinder to my face but I wouldn’t go on some fours and say so lol cause a lot of old cranks still believe in norton 4/8 and still think that cnat is 12 k so that would be a lost cause
Agree with all of this. Hone by feel, keep it simple and don’t exert yourself by trying to sound so smart with a master bakers ingredients list. Doesn’t mean we have to agree on everything but your right, some people just want to complicate the recipe for ice.
I’m relatively new but getting the hang of the shave and the hone- I have a shapton ceramic stone progression of 1k, 5k, 8k, 12k, 16k. I also own 1 natural stone, a Yellow Lake oilstone (10k?) Ive been interested in exploring natural stones but I’ve been more interested in domestic stones, particularly the Arkansas progression. I know they’re not Cot’s or jnats, but what do you think of arks? Are they on a par with either jnats / cots? Thanks!
Hi, thank you for watching and commenting. "On Par" is a comparison concept but you're talking about apples and oranges here. Better to look at every stone type individually and evaluate them on their own. But you might find some answers in the 4-5 videos in a playlist specifically dedicated to Arks on my channel.
Lately I've been combining them. Set a bevel on a 1k synth, Dilucot method (sort of) with the Coticule, then move to a misty sort of slurry on a Shobu to finish the edge. Gotten some pretty nice shaves like that. RE your comments on some of the ridiculousness in the forums, I don't let it get to me. I know how to use the "ignore" function in my brain. Once a member reaches a certain level of that kind of stuff in my mind, I just automatically turn them off. As far as newbies go, a well placed PM outlining to them some of the points you mention above can help a lot.
I can't really comment on the main topic as I've only shaved off a Dovo factor edge and the ones I've tried to learn on with a Norton 8k. I gave myself a year to learn and wasn't able to get what I would call a great edge, so I went back to a DE. I do miss shaving with my straights though. I will say that I too have quit looking at shaving forums. I could really less about hearing about someone's shave. Especially when a "Shave of the Day" post with a picture of the pre-shave oil, shave soap, razor, and six different aftershave products that were used; then all the comments are "Great looking shave." WTF. Or even worse, lets all use this soap this month thing. The forums are sounding more like an elementary school playground than a place for adults to have shave related discussions. I could go on but I'll jump off my soap box now. Thank you for bringing up a subject that I was reluctant to.
I hear you loud and clear. One of my goals is to to promote healthy shave-related discussion here on my channel. Your Norton 8k is a 5k in real life. So I'm not surprised to hear you didn't have much success with it. It takes a while to learn how to use the straight proficiently, as well as learning to hone them - so the dues have to be paid but the rewards are great. Maybe someday you'll give it another spin - or not, DEs are great too! Anyway, thanks for stopping by!
The first time I landed my first edge to shave ready rubbing steel to stone I lifted the blade out in front of me with both hands and said “ “chrom“ and the Conan barbarian music started playing in my head Lol
I'm having lots.of problems with edge chipping on my "superior grade" coticule. Tried slurry, no slurry, water only rtc. This is coming of a 5k stone. I'll try to lap it to see if it gets better. But so far I'm.not impressed. Starting to feel.i dropped a good Chunk of cash on a coticule that is not so great.
Anything is possible, but a Coticule that chips edges is very very uncommon. First, I’d look carefully into the 5k work. Chipping after 5k is often the result of rogue scratches from the bevel-set that were never relieved on the 3k or 5k.
Keith V. Johnson I'm pretty sure the 5k was ok, was passing a HHT after light palm stropping. I'm also using a power scope so the scratches where fine. The stone just feels coarse, scratchy. Maybe I was unlucky
An underdone 5k can pass a HHT and a bevel can look great but the very edge that can still be not-done and prone to chipping at the next stage. If you have a new Les Petas stone, they have a habit of feeling weird, possibly coarse and/or bumpy under the stone - but those bumpy sensations have not chipped any edges on me. To be honest, they make some killer Coti edges even though the feedback reminds me of gravel. Of course, even though it is extremely rare to have a Coticule that chips a razor's edge, it could just be that you could have a bad stone, that is always a possibility with any whetstone, natural or synthetic. If you feel that is the case, just contact Ardennes and tell them what you are dealing with. Maurice likes to make sure everyone that has a coticule is happy.
To answer what is better? I got into honing because I love collecting pretty and rare stones. Jnats are so variable and there is a lot to learn and I love that. I’m an academic in anything I do. What I mean is that I get really into studying whatever I get into. Jnats give me what I’m looking for - because if honing was just synthetics I wouldn’t be at all interested in it. There really is no way to talk me out of using Jnats. This doesn’t mean I think they are ‘better’ than coticles or other stones. I’m also a fan of anything Japanese - well most things. Coticles are great, I’m sure -and a great thing. Just aren’t my thing. And that’s ok. Same with folks that aren’t into jnats. It’s ok. No problem.
