@@ZenMonkeyGod Yeah I didn’t play the damn game maybe because I don’t wanna pay 70 dollars to watch the girl who murdered my favorite character survive.
@@The-real-negansaying that when your username and pfp idolize a guy who killed a more beloved zombie apocalyptic character than even Joel is hilarious RIP Glenn
@@willisstillhere8846 Well the only difference is I didn’t give a shit for Glenn, and well negan made up for it instead of attempting to justify it, don’t compare negan to some lesbian teenager.
Yes the big lie was bad but she totally took it to another extreme level. Like I wish joel could have been like so you're mad at me because I saved you? She's like well maybe you could have just. Let me die because my life would have meant something that's like terrible. But literally yes that's what Ellie would want. But what are the chances that a cure could have been even been made?
@@Andy-rf8rryes, that's why the whole game happened. Her genocidal spree wasn't just because Abby killed him, but more fueled by regret from moments like these. She realized that she acted like a child, which really ignited her bloodlust.
@TheCelestialFox I'm a mom but after losing everything Joel had lost and her talking about what she wanted to do after (she didn't know they were gonna kill her at the time) I'd of made the exact same choice Joel did regardless of whether she hated me for it or not
@@Kasha0211 As you are a mom, I'm sure you haven't played either game. Ellie always knew she was going to die. She wanted to and said her life would've mattered if it did. Of course the show retcons this among countless other things to really sell you that Joel/Ellie relationship, which includes the ending of the game that was changed so egregiously it negates there even being a part II game, let alone a show to build off of it. I do not acknowledge the show. To address your actual comment: Then congrats, you're equally as terrible of a person. I'm glad that you think a kid you barely started caring for (shown by you robbing them of their decision to die for the cure, then lying about it for years after, all after telling them they weren't your kid and you sure as hell ain't their parent after they poured their heart out about not wanting you to abandon them on the journey) 6-8 months after meeting is more important than actual mother/daughter relationships that should be saved. Especially when your daughter would hate you just the same. I hope you say the same thing when you take a golf club to the brain for making such a poor decision that killed an innocent man, taking him from his daughter, who then rightfully gets revenge on you.
I think Ellie was just lashing out because of the firefly thing, not cause she was actually angry with him. And story-wise it gives her a lot of guilt that helps explain why she becomes so hardcore about getting revenge for him.
I feel like you can see after how hurt Joel felt from hearing Ellie express such hostility towards him. But as Joel fully accept her wish walking away, you can see in Ellie's eyes watching him leave how she regretted what she said. I wonder if Dina had a talk with Ellie after that made her rethink her relationship with Joel.
Have you played the game? Last scene Ellie said she will work on forgiving Joel. That’s why when Joel died, she was full of guilt and wanted mad revenge.
@@ForceInEvHorizon i think they wouldn’t make a vaccine rightaway. I can’t imagine how they could in those conditions with only one person and one subject. To me it sounds tough. Anyways. They should get volunteer moms to get pregnant and get bitten during birth and produce more immune people 😂
@@issac82983 Which is honestly fucking stupid too. The whole of the characterization of this game contradicts so much from the first game that it’s ridiculous.
@@rainman3164 what? Joel lied to Ellie for YEARS. She asked “tell me everything you said is true” and Joel said it was. Then she found out the only person she had in life had been lying to her for so long. I’d be pissed too.
@@guyinagame4793 she knew from the moment he said it. Thats why she went back to the hospital to check. Also shes not mad he lied. Shed mad because marlene was right. She woyld have gladly done the surgery she wsnted her life to mean somethinh
@@guyinagame4793 The ending of the original implied that she knew the whole time and was content to live in blissful ignorance. She knew it and she accepted what happened and why he did what he did, so how and why did she regress past her younger self in Part II? All he did was save her from dying in a fruitless endeavor that would have yielded nothing.
Joel literally sacrificed the world to protect Ellie it’s honestly really sad and hurtful how she treats him when all he does is try to love and protect her
Yes, absolutely. Of course she’s mad that he’s dead and mad at the people that killed him but she’s also equally as mad that she found terapie things before he died
Not necessarily. If you played to the end of the game (which this is part of), you'd know that Ellie and Joel meet up later, have a heart to heart, and make peace with each other. She was devestated because they started to make things right, and she was never given total closure because she was ribbed of the opportunity to truly turn things around.
@@Tyler_WYes, exactly, but in the end, the only thing that motivated Ellie was the anger she was feeling with herself for treating Joel like that before he died. Everything that happened in Santa Barbara had NOTHING to do with revenge, Ellie's revenge arc ended the moment she killed Owen and Mel in the Aquarium.
@@countedcoin9738 yeah her leaving the farmhouse again wasnt about revenge it was that she was so fucked up with ptsd that she left because she thought killing abby would fix her
They really did. I felt like he needed space to grow. To move forward but Naughty Dog fucked it up and wasted time on doing a "remake" than rewriting the whole game for part 2.
@@bigbrotheriswatching3234 exactly! Joel is still the only likable character. But then again, if he actually lived through any more of the game, they'd probably fuck him up too
@@bigbrotheriswatching3234 he took away humanity’s only chance of survival by being selfish and putting Ellie above everyone else. He also lied to her about it for years when she asked him for the truth. Of course she’d be angry with him, but she forgave him in the end. It’s realistic. She’s not going to be happy Joel killed a bunch of people to save her against her wishes.
@@711ptj3 imagine different kinds of people exist and this game shows that different people do, in fact, exist even in an apocalype since just because some fungus zombies are roaming the world doesnt mean only straight white cis people exist now. Oh nvm i guess your tiny brain cant compute that
@@711ptj3 how about bill? the game barely inferred that he was gay, but he definitely was. who gives a fuck? if the story is bad then that’s fine but i can’t stand people hating this game bc they say it’s about gay people being jammed into the game. ellie was gay in the first game. it’s about love bro, that’s what the first game was about. gay people exist, and they will after the apocalypse. it only makes sense that they exist in a game that’s centered around people and relationships. the game is about the PEOPLE, if it were about Jesse and Ellie fucking and having a kid nobody would give a shit 🤦🏻♂️. these stupid double standards exist for idiotic right wing people too and it pisses me off.
@711 PTJ fallout is an aggressive criticism of capitalism for one. And every game goes out of its way to condemn your exact way of thinking here fam. Inclusion isn't bad.
Ellie's behaviour is genuine always, thats the best thing about her character. As soon as she reacts in a angry manner, she instantly realised she shouldn't have made the personal thing going on between them public and later goes to talk to him to share her reasons for the reaction she did. Beautiful character so genuine and honest in her expression.
@@I-need-2-win him being a main character doesn't mean he can't die The world they live in is brutal and violent It makes sense that he died in a brutal and violent way
@quagliarella I understand that but the way it was executed was just bullshit and stupid. They don't focus on the infected much except for humans are assholes
I like how Ellie thinks that Joel did that to “protect” her. It wasn’t about that, he knows she can protect herself. Remember the rifle scene in the first game? Cuz the writers don’t. Some ass clown just called his daughter a dyke. Notice he didn’t intervene until then. Almost like he was giving her space until he had enough. Ellie would understand this, why isn’t this used as a way to heal their broken relationship. Part 2 could’ve been a story about forgiveness and acceptance. It could’ve been just as beautiful as the first game.
I really liked your theory. Maybe she does start to realise it at the end of the short as her eyes look like they cast some doubt on her outburst? Especially in a later scene which is meant to be after she attempts to salvage a broken relationship. But imo feels guilty she was t able to repair it to what it was. What do you think?
The irony is this absolutely was used to mend their broken relationship. Literally the last flashback scene in the game is a continuation of this night where Ellie goes to talk to Joel and try in her own way to learn how to forigive him.
I would have liked to have a similar story but without the revenge theme, like maybe Joel gets bit and Ellie has to figure out how to heal from that wound just as Joel did when his daughter died. I feel like the only thing Neil cares about when he wrote this was shock value. He put the shock of the story over the character and themes. It would have worked well in a stand alone tittle but this is a sequel, you just can't do this shit
An ex hunter who lost his daughter day 1 and basically lost his surrogate daughter 1 year ago yeah if Marie didn’t get involved he would have got curbstomped look in Joel’s eyes that look that only he and a handful of others have
@@cocopus its unnecessary for them to write Ellie as an unlikeable jerk towards Joel right before they kill him off barely an hour into the game. Horrible writing, horrible plot, completely destroyed everything the first game built up with absolutely no payoff at the end.
@@Darksyne I don't think you know what horrible is you're just biased that is exactly what good writing is their relationship is complex and Joel doesn't get to spend an eternity alive and explain everything he loves about Ellie and get back on the best terms he gets taken away before he can do those things like real people do That's why ellie was so mad that she lost joel after treating him that way until she remebers that she tried to get on good terms before died having the conversation on the porch In this scene ellies says she's doesn't know if she can forgive the firefly situation but she want to try, joel realizing he has another chance to be a father to ellie sheds a tear and nearly cries Joel is shown be a better person in general and better dad to ellie and is shown to have zero regrets even if it hurt ellies and his relationship he'd kill all those people again just to keep her safe They also showed us him singing playing guitar he taught ellie to like he said But ohhhh no a 57 year old man got to see his daughter figure in his final moments after saving a young womans life An no it wasn't poorly done joel didn't gib his name until Tommy had already said they're names to Abby Abby had saved Tommy's life Tommy and joel were in a blizzard with nowhere to go except the nearest safe building which happens to be abbys ski lodge area Within 30 seconds joel was suspicous of the group
@@johnmarston1419 literally everyone else doesn't agree. Joel deserved better than to be tossed aside like garbage. Remember this is a video game meant to entertain people and you can't do that if you kill off a beloved character because the developers want to push an agenda with a different companion for Ellie. All for an ending with no payoff.
@@Darksyne agenda? I think you're the one with an agenda it was bound to happen one day And also entertainment no media is an artwork art evokes emotion joels death amels angry so angry that you'll ignore things you disagree with and act like the whole thing is bad for reason you can't be specific about And the endings payoff was to make you feel bad it's kinda the point of ellies story as well as joels Not all media is supposed to pander to what you want
Jesse: Okay, let me give you a recap. You kissed Dina Ellie: She kissed me. Jesse: Which triggered Seth to call you a homophobic slur. Ellie: Yep. Jesse: You were about to fight him, and then Joel decked him. Ellie: More like a push. Jesse: And then you mad at Joel. That part confused me. Ellie: It was a strange night, man.
@@MightySoup234 I think that’s why she took his death so hardly. She struggled to forgive herself for treating Joel that way and not being able to forgive him sooner.
@@MightySoup234 I don’t think you fully understand just what Joel did to her • he escorted her 3/4ths of the country to find the Fireflies because they were on a mission to save the world. • he didn’t give her a choice on if she wanted to do the surgery, he stripped that from her. Now the Fireflies were awful to those 2 but what Joel did was equally awful. • he LIED to her about them stopping to look for a cure, and SWORE ON THAT LIE • years later, she discovered that lie for herself, which is arguably worse than it Joel just fessed up. • she made it very clear that she and Joel were done, and that she doesn’t need him to protect her anymore.
These scene hurts when you realized the regret Ellie feel because they had this argument before Joel died and Ellie's stuck regreting not forgiving Joel for what he had done
Dude really cares that the kids don't see two people of the same sex kiss while in an apocalypse where they constantly see corpses, fungus zombies and death.
Dina: Yeah like you're setting such a great example! 😂 I loved Dina's comebacks her and Ellie had such amazing chemistry it's a shame it was so short lived for reasons relating to the story and so forth.
@@dmaxwell910901 hey if you can’t get a game to sell with a gay protagonist just start it with a straight one and then kill him and force everyone to play as a gay protagonist in the sequel😂 I’m not hating on it, I love Ellie. But I hate that they killed Joel for no reason beyond having more focus on Ellie
Remember y'all: this may be you talking to any of your parents. Sometimes they do thinks we don't like or understand and then we we get mad at them, but nobody knows what the future is saving for us. You never know when you are talking to your parents for the last time
Ellie in this scene nerves me so bad. As a queer girl with a homophobic father, I would give ANYTHING for him to stand up for me the way Joel did. EDIT: Since some of y'all missed the point, allow me to elaborate. All these comments telling me "Joel isn't her real father" or "She has a right to be mad" are insane. I know that Joel isn't her real father, but he still basically adopted her. I am NOT saying that Ellie doesn't have a right to be pissed off. I also understand that she wanted to stand up for herself without Joel's help. But sometimes it's nice to have the support, you know? Especially when NO ONE ELSE said anything. Not Dina, Not Jesse, nobody! The only other person who said anything was Maria. I'm so sick of repeating myself. Please read through the comments before you reply. If your comment sounds anything like another one, I won't be as nice.
Not to demean you because i honestly hope one day your dad will, but he isnt really her dad and he lied to her about something she remind him was extremely important to her before any of it even happened, i get you want joel to not be treated so roughly but this life, actions have consequences just like if you werent to do them, at the end of the day she was in her way coping with what happened and the results of it all, you can not judge her for how she feels. Ever. because you havent lived the exact same life. This thought process is coming from the same type of people who praise joel for the first game, when you reread what i have wrote for ellie alot of those apply to joel as well or atleast super joel fans will agree with.
@808hearmann Xea Ooohhh! I was waiting for someone to comment this! Because luckily for you, I already have a response locked and loaded for someone like you. So thank you so much for saying this! Ooohh! I'm so excited! Yes, I know that's not her real dad. I played the game, thank you very much. But he still CHOSE to love her. He could have very easily handed her off to Tommy, or even gave her to another firefly like the original plan was. But he didn't. I also get why she's upset. Really, I do! She said she wanted her life to matter. But her life ALREADY does, as she's literally the only thing that Joel has left. As someone who lives in the real world, that whole process definately wouldn't work out the way she expects it to. First of all, what happens to the people that are already clickers/bloaters/runners/etc? Is the vaccine going to turn them human again? If the vaccine did happen, I'm willing to bet every dollar I have that the vaccine would be ridiculously expensive. Not to mention the fact that there would DEFINATELY be a war over it. You want to know what I think should have happened? They should have asked Ellie while she was conscious if she wanted to do the surgery. And Joel should have been in the room. You're right. I can't judge Ellie for how she feels (which I'm not. Where you even pulled that from is beyond me). But that can go both ways, friend. Have you lost a child before? If not, then you can't judge Joel for what he did. I'm very aware that Joel does bad things. But guess what? Everyone in this universe does. It's a zombie apocalypse afterall. People are pushed to some pretty dark limits in this universe. Some people do bad things to survive, some do it to protect people they love, while others do bad things for power and fear. I'm aware that Karma is a running theme in this game too, thanks.
@@GamingWithGlacier see I get both yalls points, but I think the attitude Ellie has towards Joel and her discontent nature and her feeling of “lacking purpose” is gonna be an even more important and integral part of the overarching story. Ellie centers her entire worth and belonging on her immunity and the possibility that she is the key to saving a broken world. That’s taken from her and so her entire identity is stripped with it. Think about it. Ellie’s whole motivation and purpose was that she was the cure. Now that’s gone and it was stripped from her by the person closest to her, and then he lied and lied about it. I believe in the next last of us (they already confirmed it’s been written it’s gonna be a thing) part of Ellie’s story will be finding that worth. Finding her new identity and how to be happy. Coping with her trauma and finding that, being the world to those around her that matter and love her is just as important and valid as saving a broken and (honestly) evil world that would’ve exploited her sacrifice and used it for personal gain
I mean she showed up to his place shortly after. She still didn’t apologize nor did she forgive him. She said she could try but that’s it. Makes her pretty unlikable in my opinion
This was the one game that felt like a chore to complete rather than the first one. She could have said something better than that to the person who taught and kept her alive as a little girl.
People justify everything which is the opposite of what the developers/writers wanted. I don’t know how you can justify Joel murdering a hospital full of innocent people and the only doctor who could find the cure, which ruined Abby’s life. We were pretty much told that there would’ve for sure been a cure. Like if Joel is perfectly justified then how is Abby a villain when she was avenging her father ? If Joel did the same thing he’d get a pass
@@kyra2419”innocent people” bruh did you even play the game? The fireflies are straight up terrorists that blow up a building in a populated safe zone within the first hour of the game and they were gonna kill a child and backstab Joel because their vet (not even a real doctor) thought he could make a vaccine for a fungal infection (which is impossible) with 20+ year old equipment
And this is one of those scenes that really upsets me why people have the audacity to respond to people who feel saddened of Joel’s death by saying, “he’s not real” or “it’s a video game” like I understand you have no empathy but this portrayal this acting, this story, really immerses you to imagine that this character could be your father or someone you love, anybody or even imagine he’s real.. scenes like this seeing the way Ellie treat Joel really opens your eyes to how important it is to love the people you care about, and not treat them like this.
And the audacity to say that saving Ellie is selfish and the worst sin ever? But it’s A FICTION GAME! The outcome does affect us. So why should we care about a cure?? We’re not in the Story 😂
Anyone who actually paid attention to part 1 would know exactly why she's mad. "Everything we've done can't be for nothing." Lost Tess, Lost Sam and Henry, Murdered Marlene, Broke Tess's promise, Lied to Ellie, and doomed the world selfishly. Ellie wanted to save the world because what happened to Riley (her first love), what happened to Sam (her new friend) and Henry. And what happened to Tess and Marlene (the closest person to her at the time).
“Kids die all the time”, remember? And so do Adults. So realistic she couldn’t stop death no matter the cure. She was going throw her life away without living the rest of it. Humans can’t save the world. Look at all deaths that have occurred this year, no vaccine is going to prevent a car accident or a plane/ helicopter crash or stabbings and shootings.
I always start to get mad at Ellie during this scene cause it’s rude but I gotta remember that she’s still really mad at Joel for the whole fireflies situation
It was a whole year ago though you can’t be that petty of that it’s a waste of energy “forgive your enemies but never forget their names.”-John F Kennedy
This was the scene that made me fucking cry in this game, because when you think about it nobody is right in this situation joel obviously deserved hate from ellie for joel hiding ellies secret the entire time as much i love joel and he is my favorite character, he is in no means a good person. Ellie also in this scene acts mean to joel i feel like the timing of where this scene was placed was perfect im also very glad that at the end of the game ellie and joel really talked it out, this is one of the best pieces of media i have seen in my life
The last of us 1 established ellie was gay and that shit is one of the best games of all time 🤔🤔🤔🤔😮 And guess what? Joel was still an old white guy in that game 😵😵😵😵 Fucking weirdo
@@sashidze Technically it is, I seen alot Old people being Homophobia, My friend told me her family say this remind her when she was young, old people is just like that to black people, Like old people calling black people/lbgt a devil 💀 like they were devil for what? For who they are? That just ridiculous 😂
So I know a lot of people find it annoying that Ellie is holding a grudge against Joel, but you all have to think of it from her stand point in the story not just as a game, they're all living in a zombie apocalypse where hundreds of thousands of families and friends were killed and then turned to kill more, Ellie finding out that she could've been the cure for saving the entire world, puts a lot of shock into you, especially when because of what Joel did just left more people to suffer and die, even though I do accept it for what Joel did as he lost his daughter and didn't want to lose another, when it comes to a story driven game, please think of how the person feels in the situation, not treat it like just a game
@@LightFurry19 the fact that you defend ellie shows that you never play any decent games... So much for a gamer, i bet you don't even know yoko taro's game
@@linnen_elm I in no way am defending Ellie, remember the Ellie has a right to be mad at joel in that scene, but she must still be thankful that she has a father, Joel did it out of love not spite, and please don't tell me that just because I didn't play a certain game makes me all of a sudden not a gamer, I've played more than 200 games by now, maybe more I can't be expected to remember them all
The game socks balls, they killed off Joel and gave us an annoying brat built on the back of anger, envy, pettiness, over indulging lesbian, non logical, anti climatic asf and two bad endings. Major disappointment not even top 200
Ngl this scene feels extremely out of pocket from Ellie, like maybe if Joel ran up and punched the guy, but all Joel did was stop Ellie from getting herself into trouble, while doing the bare minimum to attempt to defuse the situation, yet she still gets all pissy
@@Hi-wz8fb ok but regardless defending her in this fashion should still go appreciated, at least its what i'd assume from the ellie we had in the first game, she wasn't THIS mean spirited
@@fobo3361 it does show ellie was ready to forgive him, in a flashback. right after this happened in the dance place ellie goes to joel and says she wil forgive him, she didnt mean it necessarily but she thinks of what joel had taken away from her
She asked him to stay away from her while. He violated her boundaries by trying to intervene and she’s allowed to be mad about that. Joel knows damn well she can handle an old homophobe on her own.
I know bro🙄🙄. The writing is laughable and questionable during the game. Like I don't understand how can people like this game and pretend to ignore the bad things calling it a " masterpiece " when it's really not. These Abby stans and fanboys get butthurt when i state facts then have to ask stupid questions later lol.
