He was too busy watching people fight and torturing subjects other than ruling. Same as Robert (Whoreing, drinking, and hunting) both of them actually made sensible statements.
@Adolf Hitler He could not unite the Westerosi the way you united the Germanic peoples under one flag. Some Lord should've gifted him your book for his birthday ceremony.
How did Joffrey make a great point? Its devoid from logical/rational thinking. Just because you are correct in hindsight doesnt make it a great point the fuck. Tywins thinking always had great points, dragons hadnt been a real threat for 300 years and his experts all said that these dragons wouldnt be an exception. Joffreys "good" points comes from fear, not rational thinking.
If he applied himself and wasn't a psychopath, he would have been a smart ruler. Like Tywin told Tommen, knowledge is good, a good king knows what he doesn't know. And Joffery did just that, about the dragons.
Him being a psychopath would not have stood in the way of him being a smart ruler, if anything it would help because he'd be much more capable of brutal and merciless action when it was needed (Like with the High Sparrow. Wife's brother gets arrested? Send some cutthroat like Bronn in, capture the High Sparrow and send him back to the sept one piece at a time until Loras gets let free. Then have the lot of them killed discreetly). Joff's big fault was an enabling mother and a 'father' who didn't give a shit about him, leading to him growing up with a total lack of self-control. Psychopaths with self-control often make genius politicians and businessmen (Just look at Littlefinger and Roose Bolton), those who've had a bad upbringing are the ones you hear about on the news, the rapists and serial killers.
It wasn’t even him being a sociopath, but being a low functioning one. Had he learned how to at least pretend to most people that he wasn’t a cruel sadistic prick, and learned that he couldn’t just instantly off any one he hates, he would have been a lot better ruler than his father who suffered from being a good soldier not a good politician. But everyone was focused on trying to make him their puppet ruler and not a good ruler
@@venisabdijevic1148 it was the one idea that could've prevented all the squabbling and drama that happened though. But it didn't matter anyway they still won against the white walkers regardless of how much damage the living did to themselves so whatever
@@Ben-vg6ox Nah, in a feudal kingdom the vassals power is dependent on the fact that they can give military protection to their smallfolk and vassals. A royal army in kingslanding would have made this much more difficult .
On the dragon issue I think that is less Joffrey being smart and more Tywin exemplifying the closed-mindedness and stubbornness of many old men. Joffrey is just speaking some pretty common sense, while Tywin is refusing to accept that the times are changing and require a different approach.
@@scientia.veritas That's a good point, except Tywin does know for a fact that large Dragons have existed in relatively recent history. 200 years is really not that long ago and I feel like the reemergence of powerfully sized Dragons shouldn't be that outlandish of a thing to believe.
I think it's a really alarming plothole and to put it to arrogance is a cheap move. The dragons are a competitive advantage as evident by Joffrey's words. As a leader you would either strike an alliance between the two factions to prevent a devastating strike and gain the support of a dragon or if the dragons are not owned by a powerful force infiltrate and take them for your own. It is ridiculous when you think about it.
@@ollybirkbeck8888 That isn't so easy in what's essentially medieval times. Remember, Westeros is supposed to be the size of South America, and Essos almost as big. Getting information back and forth over that distance would be difficult enough, but sending some sort of force to capture her dragons is entirely another question. They'd have to secretly leave Westeros, travel god knows how much land to reach Daenerys. They'd then have to get past her dothraki and unsullied, to capture or kill dragons of unknown size, and do this all when she has people like Jorah Mormont with her who could probably sniff out something like this happening, and get back, with the dragons in tow if they decide to capture them. Considering the massive civil war still raging, I think they've all got much bigger problems to deal with that some farfetched plan to steal dragons from the other side of the world.
@@ollybirkbeck8888 it's not a plot hole and it's not a cheap move. tywin's downfall is his overwhelming pride. he's smart but he absolutely loathes admitting that he's in any sort of bad position
zlozlozlo cool scene, but he Tywin was being too arrogant. The king should be in small council meetings and he should have say in whats happening, but Tywin wanted to assert his domimance and now Dany's dragons are full grown and she has an even larger army.
@@Prince_the_One Joffrey wasn't in power cersei was still his regent which means that in theory she rules Edit : Robert tried to kill her since he won the rebellion sooo how does Joffrey want to accomplishe that
@@Prince_the_One When a vicious idiot ascends the throne, it becomes the job of those around him to manage him as best they can and try to limit the damage he causes. Just like they're doing with trump in Washington right now.
Tywin was also right though. Dany was a potential threat, but she was years away from being able to challenge the Lannisters and, so far as they knew at the time, might never be able to at all. They didn't have the resources to take out every potential threat at once, and it didn't make sense to focus on a distant one instead of the ones on their doorstep. Frankly, the only reason Joffrey cared about Dany at all was because her dragons sounded fantastic, as opposed to the 'dull' threats in Westeros he considered beneath his attention. And both Tywin and Joffrey ended up being killed by closer threats long before Dany set foot in Westeros.
At the time when Tywin said that Dany and her dragons weren't a serious threat. The dragons were little fire breathing vultures. Dany was nearly defeated fighting an insurgency from the Masters because of her rash decision to free the slaves, not compensate the masters, and generally disrespect the Meereen culture. Joffery and his grandfather were both undone by mistreating people in their own inner circles, rather than any outside threat. Had Tywin kept his most able minister Tyrion around him Dany would never have been able to run Meereen much less attempt an invasion of Westeros. Even when her dragon grew they were useless against small scale insurgency that wasn't in large battle formations.
Assassinating Dany would have been a very prudent move. Without her leadership, no matter what chaos takes hold in the far east, there's very little chance that those forces would then choose to sail to Westeros. Obviously, the bannisters shouldn't have worried about expending large amounts of resources on Dany given that they had enemies closer to home. But it's absolutely true that it was Lannister arrogance, not their cold calculations, that caused them to dismiss the future threat of Dany. The Lannisters don't tend to believe in forces greater than themselves (in fact, neither does Dany really). Other more cautious houses would probably have recognized the fact that the birth of three dragons could pose a serious threat in a few years time.
Robert tried to assassinate Dany and that only made things worse. Assassins are expensive, especially faceless men, and can be very hit or miss. At the time this conversation takes place Dany has no way of reaching Westeros to begin with. Tywin was probably hoping she would either be taken care of by her enemies in Essos, or that she would eventually give up on reclaiming Westeros and start her Kingdom there (which is actually what Tyrion suggested as the logical move when he met her). Worst case scenario, if she DID reach them, he'd have much better odds than Cersei, since he'd still have the Tyrells on his side, maybe even the Dornish and the North, and she hadn't yet united the Dothraki to her cause. Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think Tywin's decision to ignore her for the moment was a bad one given the circumstances and the information he had at the time.
They have all the money in the world for extravagant marriages, but not enough to take out the magical creatures that a few centuries ago casually brought the entire realm to its knees ... Varys even informed them that they're rapidly growing and Dany already acquired an impressive army. I think their flippant attitude about the threat Dany presents was a deliberate flaw.
Only the last one was right, the whole point about 1 standing army just wouldn't work in the Fuedal era system of government. Large standing armies didnt become a thing until the development of nation states.
Joffrey was right about several things, regarding what a smart woman does, what a british cigarette is, the type of pathetic men his grandpa tywin, and the lannisters are.
Well-trained well-disciplined army already exist in the form of Lannister army. Tywin will not allow the creation of a professional army loyal to the Iron Throne. He will lose his control of Joffrey.
Kind of interesting to think that if all the Lord Paramountships in Westeros were ruled by the Lannisters then they would have had a strong centralized and fluid government that would end Feudalism faster than if they were ruled by a ton of separate families. Even if they were tyrants, it seems the peasants would be better off. Not sure that is a good enough excuse for the way they play the game but whatever.
@@firstnamett4656 Ending feudalism would lead to an easier transition into a new form of government that would be way more stable. Dynastic disputes are pretty much the most common reasons for bloodshed in Westeros, so ending that seems important. It would be like the Wars of the Roses leaving one very powerful family to centralize their power and progress to a new stage of English government.
@@firstnamett4656 After the battle of Agincourt the French moved to a professional army system, like Joffrey suggests, as that was what the English beat most of the french nobility with in said battle. When the French did that they finally ended their feudal rivalries, united and kicked the English out of France. It is not an efficient system and was a leftover from the fall of the Roman Empire, where commanders of roman army units used those units to make themselves rulers of small pieces of lands. The word Count is derived from Comte which again is derived from Comitatenses which was a roman frontier army in the late stages of the empire. Note that the roman armies were supposed to be loyal to Rome itself, but as the empire declined most soldiers were more loyal to their commander than Rome, by the end. However that wasn't the case early on. I'm curious to why why you think that the feudal system is efficent in any way shape or form?
Exactly. He was strong willed and assertive, something his younger brother lacked when facing the religious fanatics. The Kingsguard even told Tommen they could wipe out the rabble for him, all he had to do was give the order, something Joffrey wouldn't have hesitated to do. Pycelle also said he had the potential for true greatness. His father just didn't care about him and his mother didn't teach him any self-control.
Robert should had him send to be fostered by either Tywin or Stannis. result would have been a brilliant King. but thanks for his mother, result is vicious, idiot King like Tyrion said.
I don't think that's the case. The point here is that he is an inbred lunatic. That's what ruins his genius, remember he is a kid, but he here with the professional army suggest something that's basically revolutionary in their age. If he was the actual son of Robert then he probably would have made an amazing king. But Game of Thrones is basically multiple stories concerning the same throne but with different equally flawed contenders.
Well even the most evil persons have made good in theie lives, Stalin for instance helped in WW2, robespierre for all the murder he did ,he pushed France out from the narchy after the execution of Louise the XVI and in the Watchmen comic Ozimandias actions (spoiler here but it is an old one) dispute the millions of death it caused the cold war to end in seconds. Now this deosn't work every time but it is a interesting thought non the less.
"Sometimes even the biggest spoiled idiots can have moments of clarity..." Except this isn't a moment of clarity, it's a wrong answer. Joffrey is focused on a future threat when there are immediate threats to deal with. It's like planning for a nuclear defense system when the Roman Legion is ten miles away and marching toward you. You're not going to be around long enough for nukes to be a threat. So as a result, he gets killed way before dragons would be a problem. Tywin's approach of continuing to get information from spies and ramping up action as it becomes more of a threat and thus more of a priority is far better in principle. The fact that his spymaster is a traitor is a separate issue, but at least his approach of prioritizing threats and dealing with the biggest and most immediate ones first is sensible.
Would be great to add in the scene where the Dothraki says that the lanister men are terrible fighters right after the scene where Joffrey complains about peasants who've never held a weapon before in their lives.
Eh the Lannister in that battle were in the Lannister army which is said to be one of the best in Westeros. They definitely were not a bunch of peasants.
CempetitivelyAwesome. Just because they are the best Army in Westeros doesn't mean they are not peasants. There are only some trained man at each castle, the household guard. The Armies raised by the Lords are the normal people that work normal Jobs, Famers, Fishers, Stonemasons and so on. The Knights and the Household Guards are the only man with some fighting experience or those of the normal man that have fought in battle before in the Greyjoy Rebellion for example. But the Lannister Army is not a standing Army, they were put together in the beginning of the War of the five Kings or even later during since part of their forces got killed, so they got some experience and a bit time to train since then. Just like most of the Nights Watch comes there untrained, and they get probably more training than most soldiers. What the Lannister Army has is the best equipment. But that can even be a problem in some cases when they are not trained enough for that equipment. Another reason why the Lannister Army was good was because they had Tywin who was a good commander. The main point you have already made yourself, they are one of the best in Westeros. That just doesn't mean much since there are no standing Armies in Westeros. The Reach also has a good Army, why? Because they also are the second richest region. But the Dothraki are real fighters, they fight all there life even among themselves. The Unsullied are trained and professional soldiers. Sellsword companies over in Essos have more training as well as the average Soldier in a Westerosi Army. The point is, the Lannisters have one of the best Armies in Westeros, but all Armies in Westeros are basically a bunch of peasants that get weapons and basic training. The only reason they would have had a small chance against the Dothraki oder would have been able to put up the fight if there were no Dragon involved, is that they had Speers and Shields and could do a basic battle line. And they had Archers against Dothraki who wear no Armor. But even then the Dothraki are far better fighters, only the Knights can put up a real fight.
Lannister cavalry would slaughter the dothraki savages like pigs. The only advantages they have are they numbers and the FUCKIN HUGE ASS Dragon. They have no armor and no discipline. Their arakhs are mostly useless against armour as Jorah's fight with Qotho clearly demonstrated. The infantry would also put up a much better fight if they were able to form a line without being harassed and had greater numbers. Unsullied are also op. Their weapon and armour is lacking, they have no archers and training would only get them so far. Dragons are the basic game changer in this fight.
Joffrey was right. Having a standing professional army and posting them in all the lands probably would have kept the 7 kingdoms under wraps. That way they wouldn't have to deal with Grejoy rebellions every couple of years.
Yeah but what if the Iron Isles decided they didn't want to be part of the army, is there going to be a law enforcing that each house/area has to give a portion of their army. Would the current king/queen just go ahead and kill off an entire house because they decided they didn't want to fight for them? Isn't that the whole point of the Greyjoy rebellions in the first place? Think how bad that would make them look. And plus there are feuding houses, do they expect each house to get along? Dorne is it's own separate entity, but it's still in Westeros. Do they expect the Dornish to give some of their soldiers? There's a lot of factors for a unified army.
its quite obvious how it would work, it just like it did in real life...cost its cheaper for lords to pay for professional soldiers and loyal lords would get commands essentially you convince enough lords that this is better (voluntary service and cheaper costs while still haveing a larger army and to others commands in this army as larger armies require more higher ups thus more leadership positions) anyone who then make it happen any rebels are going to be both outnumbered and outclassed and thus loose.
I agree, Draka Shrakenburg Productions. They need a standing army, guys like Gregor Clegane would qualify as domestic terrorists in a developed country.
Feudalism and a standing army don't mix too well. Joffery would want sort of a Colonial English society, with lords and Ladies who owned land and peasants that worked them, but who didn't have soldiers, there was a full standing army. This couldn't work in the current westeros, though it's a very good idea, you'd need a whole new system.
1. I blame his parenting first and foremost it's easily a good 80% of why he turned out the way he did. 2. Despite his rampant immaturity he knew that no one really took him seriously despite the fact that he was king including his own family. Cersei was always caudling him instead of teaching him valuable life lessons, and he got sick of it. His mother and grandfather are easily the two snobbiest/heartless people to be raised by, and Robert may as well have been absent.
weeeeell actually joffrey was killing kitchen cats at a young age so he may have been a psychopath and beyond repair from birth regardless of his parents. psychopathy is a thought to be a genetic or inherited condition. his parents could try to mitigate the damage but without mental health help which doesnt exist in westeros, more likely than not he was going to turn out like the mountain regardless of cersei and robert. I'm sure it didnt help that cersei was also nuts, and robert was disinterested in him. but i will note that it seems like robert lost interest in parenting joffrey AFTER the kitchen cat incident. when he heard that joffrey cut a cat open he hit him and cersei threatened to kill Robert in his sleep if he ever did it again and after that he seems to have stopped trying to get in cersei's way.
This. This, and all of the royal house of Habsburg, is the greatest argument against inbreeding. Inbreeding leads to malformed retards like this. Made so much worse, if the incest-spawn has a position of power.
@@zamlat8118 Well, yes actually. Cersei didn't try to "train" Tommen and Myrcella to be kings. Whereas with Joffrey, she was constantly in his ear telling him lies about what it meant to rule. The show makes it very clear that Joffrey got a much different "parenting" than his siblings.
The first part is just amazing to me because of the fact Joffrey was actually thinking for his Kingdom. He could have been the first king with a whole Royal Militant section, along with the Goldcloaks.
+It's Me I'm not so sure about that. From this point forward, I don't remember Tywin ever scheming anything to get rid of Daenerys and her dragons before they grew up. What can I say? No man is perfect. Even Tyrion made some HUGE mistakes this season, though I'm still cheering for him to redeem himself. (heck knows Jaime is already on that road, proving to be an actually good commander and finally ditching that lunatic Cersei)
And yet, he was ironically wrong about Daenerys and her dragons. :\ If only he had done something about it... Oh well, roll on your grave now, old lion. Your stupid of a grandson was right for once. XD
+Dhillon Bhatt Well, there are other ways to deal with things other than sending armies. He could've hired more assassins, actually competent assassins to try and sneak in on Daenerys' camp and murder her in her sleep. He could've devided an ambush, a poisoning, a spy, something, *specially after Robb's death.* Unfortunately, not even after that did he take action. :\ I admire Tywin Lannister, but I have to admit Joffrey was right about worrying.
That standing army thing has always stuck with me because that is incredibly smart and progressive for a feudal society. If that was expanded upon Joffrey could have completely reorganized the feudal system and by the time Daenerys came to Westeros she would have had to deal with a system that doesnt tolerate feudal societies anymore.
I mean doesn't Cersei point out the very obvious problem of the fact that all the Professional soldiers are already in service to the Various noble houses (who are used to a great deal of autonomy). And the fact that your standing army may have divided loyalties between the Crown and the places you recruited them which is a problem in both Smaller scale rebellions and continent wide civil war.
@@vincegalila7211 in the early that would be a problem but the main problem would be forcing all the great houses to bow out and accept losing autonomy, power and military.
I just have so much respect for the kid that played Joffrey, he managed to make the entire world hate his character the first time we saw him, now that's talent, shame he retired
How did Robert by drinking and letting Jon arryn do everything And even if Jeffrey's idea sounds nice westeros is too hard divided in the 9 regions and only the crown land is fully loyal to him.The starks are beloved in the north not the king same for the reach the vale and Dorne
The Middle Ages aren’t that simple. It took hundreds of years of fighting and war for England and France to become centralized, and in the HRE the rulers were the ones who lost out to their vassals.
Turning a confederation of duchies and kingdoms into a nation-state isn't something that can just be legislated into being overnight... had Joffrey tried to create a single crown-loyal standing army, it very likely would have been the end of the Iron Throne as a central government entirely. Neither the North nor Dorne would ever agree to be part of such systems, given their fiercely independent cultures as represented in the books, and those two regions are the most difficult to invade/hold places in all of Westeros. Joffrey's plan would have resulted in open rebellion and a war of attrition that the crown could never win; not even Aegon the Conqueror with three of the fiercest dragons the world had ever seen had actually conquered the North or Dorne, Torrhen Stark surrendered his crown peacefully after seeing what happened in the south, and Dorne was only brought into the Seven Kingdoms by Aegon's son through a diplomatic marriage (after a disastrously failed attempt to invade and defeat them through force). Trying to implement a modern-style standing army in that world would have broken the Iron Throne.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT BIG IDIOT WITHOUT BRAIN YOU ARE PATHETIC I SHUT YOU UP HE WAS WEAK AND STUPID HE WAS BAD CHARACTER HE IS BAD ACTOR YOU ARE NOT RESPONDING BECAUSE YOU ARE AFFRAID OF ME I AM NOT BECAUSE I DO NOT FEAR AN IDIOT LIKE YOU YOU WILL ALWAYS BE AFFRAID OF ME AND I WILL NEVER BE YOU COWARD.
Joffrey's caution concerning any Targaryen comes from that really looked up to his "father", Robert, who hated Targaryens more than anything (remember season 1?). He wasn't much like his father, but he inherited/shared his fear of the Targaryens.
Yes, probably. It wasn't in the series, but in the books it mentioned that Joffrey once cut the belly of a pregnant cat open and presented the unborn kittens to Robert. Robert was furious and hit Joffrey so hard over the face that Joffrey lost a few teeth, and both Cersei and Stannis for a moment thought that Robert had killed him (Robert was huge and strong in the books), which lead Cersei to threaten Robert that if he ever did that again, she would kill him. It's also implied that Joffrey sent the cut-throat to Bran to prove something to his father, as he overheard his father saying it would be a mercy if Bran died. It's also possible that this was Littlefinger's doings ... but Littlefinger was more than a thousand miles away and couldn't know that Jaime pushed Bran. Joffrey also had access to Robert's armory where the knife was after Robert won it from Littlefinger at the Tourney on Joffrey's name day as Robert , of course, bet against Jaime Lannister who fell to ser Loras. It's somewhat ironic that Joffrey, despite being a very pure Lannister (incest-pure), and whose whole reign was built upon Lannister might and gold, with his mother always wispering in his ear ... always, even until his death long after his father's demise, saw himself as a Baratheon. This can be seen in the series when he tells Tywin he hid under Casterly Rock during his "father's" real war. I think the book made that scene better - more grey, instead of being about the hardcore Tywin sending Joffrey to bed, as it afterwards, through Tyrion's eyes, implied that it really hit Tywin harder than he wanted to admit. Cersei tried to persuade Tywin that Joffrey cared nought about Robert, but Tyrion instead said that it did sound like something Robert would say. The series also removed the bit were Joffrey outrightly said that Tywin had been afraid of Aerys. It probably hit Tywin so hard because it partly was true - during his 20 years as Hand of the King - and he did a brilliant job - he never stood up to the Mad King who laughed and joked about him in his face, and then the Mad King even took his heir from him - when he added Jaime to his Kingsguard. Tywin didn't object openly, but instead leaved the capital for the Rock. As Kevan said "He gave the Seven Kingdoms plenty and justice, he bore that heavy burden for 20 years, and all he earned was a Mad King's envy" (paraphrased). Tywin hated the king after this, with good reason, yet he still didn't openly revolt with the other kingdoms. Not until Robert smashed Rhaegar on the Trident. The fear was going both ways, which was why Aerys added Jaime to the Kingsguard - to make sure Tywin behaved. In the end ... Tywin's fear kept him alive (the other Hands were either burned alive or exiled)and when he saw the chance at revenge, and of course a king for his daughter to marry, he claimed a revenge so brutal and horrifying even Tywin himself later said it was unnecessarily bloody. Wow. Wall of off topic text. Soz guys, but I couldn't stop myself.
Yeah, he tried to be nice with people sometimes, especially when he was with Margaery. If Tiwyn would have trained him like he did with Tommen may he could be a better king, but nobody cares about him, they just spoiled him and let him do what he wants. I think at least he would be a good military commander.
I hated Joffrey more than Ramsey. Ramsey at least knew how to fight and got shit done himself. Joffrey was a whiney little prick who hadn't a clue of how to fight but acted like he was the biggest toughest person in the kingdom.
He was genuinely a psychopath. He gutted a pregnant cat and showed the fetuses to his family. He fed Tommen his own cat once. He had Sansa beaten bloody by people who were supposed to be the best knights. He was *not* just spoiled. The kid was full psycho asshole.
Funny thing, Dany's new world (breaking the wheel) will most likely remove feudalism in favour of something closer to what Joffrey told his mother about one standing army.
Thats a more dangerous scenario than what it currently is, what if another mad king/queen becomes the head of that army with no one left to challenge him/her?
"Breaking the wheel" in Daenerys' mind means crushing every house into submission and removing them if needed and establish Targaryen rule that last a thousand years..
and thus daenerys of house targaryan becomes the first absolute monarch of westeros bringing all her vassals to live in Kings Landing so that years later the republicans might overthrow them and finally the republic shall rise.
Red Floyd An army of white people to protect (dominate) Europe led by a German controlled political force, where have I heard that story before? You aren't fooling anyone, Nazi punk.
It's sad how often I missed Joffrey during the last couple of seasons and now have to be reminded that he was not completely stupid despite being a monster
This is probably the only time Joffrey was dead on right in the whole show. Tywin should have listened to him because the exact thing he was worried about is exactly what happened.
Yeah, should Tywin listen to his experts or to Jeoffreys unfounded complaints. But since this is a tv show, prophecies come true and miracles and the supernatural are real. So yeah, Tywinn didnt account for the supernatural and magic shit. So Jeoffrey is right, but it was based on nothing. The story of Dany is very unlikely (from slave to a dragon queen with the largest army and following, crossing the sea with the dothraki) and would make the story of Jesus lackluster in comparison.
"Don't you thing we ought to doooo something about it." They should've whilst they still had the chance. But, tbh it may not even matter anymore. Maybe if they had actually moulded Joffrey into a leader instead of using him has a pawn in the game, he might have turned out better🤷🏾♀️
we needed Joffrey who was properly educated. Tyrion tried, but it was too late, thanks to Cersei who spoiled him and taught him selfishness. Joffrey, fostered by Tywin since 5 would have had brought an golden age to westeros
"Dragon's haven't won a war in 300 years, armies win them all the time" Another time he dismissed the worry and eventually brought ruin to King's Landing. He was a stubborn goat about this.
At that time (if Robert died immediately) he could have the armies of the Stormlands, the Crownlands and the Lannister army. Ned as his hand could support the project (if he would have been nice to his daughter). I do not see that the other lords could oppose that.
Even the Targaryens realized that the population of each region was loyal to that region and its local houses, not to the crown. Where is this army supposed to come from and why would the lords allow themselves to be cut out entirely, when they command the realm's armies?
@@trence5 all the evidence available to them at the moment pointed to tywin being correct. he did a superb job at counseling his cowardly, superstitious grandson.
It is interesting to see that every opportunity Joffrey had to give genuine insight was all but snuffed by those he trusted (at least to a degree) which most likely planted the seeds of him making rash decision after rash decision. True he was messed up to begin with, but if someone like Tyrion or even Ned had an opportunity to give wisdom to him, there’s a chance things could’ve been different.
German Pereira he probably thought she would fall off at some point, a girl having that big of any army at her back for long was unthought of at that point
Yeah definitely especially when he remarks dangerous creatures such as dragons as curiosities. I think he was clouded by a sense of superiority that he didn't bother to look into it more after that discussion. I would imagine he should have had Danny at number 1 on his hit-list especially since bloodlines/claims to thrones are big political power moves in GoT.
But the OP's point remains. No reason he couldnt smash the home armies AND send a couple competent assassins. Its just so uncharacteristically stupid and short-sighted of him.... Like its literallly common sense, dragons are dangerous dawg. Particularly dragons behind the last living relative of the previous royal family. ...this is a man that had a woman and her two babies killed (and raped cuz fuck it, why not?) Because they were potential threats to a throne that wasnt even his... and they had NO dragons, and NO army. matter of fact it was PROBABLY his suggestion to Robert that he have someone sent after Dany and Viserys in the FIRST place when they were children... So he has a change of heart NOW, when she starts to rise dramatically quickly in power? It doesnt make any fucking SENSE... Literally the ONLY thing I can figure is MAYBE he respected it as like 'Ned Stark/Robert Baratheon's last wish' or something like that.... maybe he thought Ned might've known something that he didnt, or that hed be defying the gods to do something that Ned was ready to quit over... perhaps the years really did soften him though and he came to regret what he did with those kids....
*Tywin wakes up in hell next to Joffrey* *Joffrey: Should have listened to me bitch. How did you die anyway?* *Tywin: I was killed by Tyrion* *Joffrey: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA*
Aside from being a complete maniac, Joffrey was pretty the protector of the realm with this. I mean he saw the threat and wanted to prepare while the other Lannisters...well....they did what Lannisters did.
Mew well obviously but when your running a kingdom that's basically how all your decisions are made, how can I get x result and still stay in power. In this case it was, alright this girl on another continent is building an army with plans to come take my kingdom, she also has dragons which if anything like the dragons of old will royally fuck my shit up. Why are we not assassinating this girl now?
It is said he really truly wanted to be a good king. He just had ZERO comprehension on what a good king or a good person was. He was ultra zealous in his protectorate role and thought Ned and his family were all enemies to the realm. He was messed up in the head and his enclosed upbringing (with Cersei at the forefront) did nothing to help his case, and he delighted a bit too much in the suffering of his enemies. Im not excusing nor defending his actions, he was ultimately a monster...but I do wonder how things would have been if Margaery continued to pull influence on him over the years.
Something I like about Joffrey is that under his petulant persona lied a fairly competent King. It is a shame that he was spoiled rotten by Cersey and lacked a good father figure
A small dragon of Danerys incinerated a man like a full-powered flame thrower, there was nothing anyone could have done to save him at the point. If a big dragon came a city, everyone would know to shoot it full of spears and arrows. If a small dragon snuck itself into a city, started a fire and slinked away? Well, it could keep coming back for more while that city executed the wrong men day after day, suspecting there's an arsonist on the loose.
well, by invading the Slavers bay to kill her when her dragons were still small. He wouldn't have fought, or planned anything. He would just give the order.
I saw a bit of his audition for this part - he’s amazing! His whole face changed when he went into character. That’s some amazing acting. I wish he’d lasted longer in GoT, but he’s got a great future ahead of him.
Hiring a *mercenary to assasinate Dany* takes *small effort on Tywin's part* yet it could *prevent a potentially big threat* to the throne. It *wipes out the last of the Targaryens* so they won't ever have to worry about not only Dany but her *possible future generations* (she may not really be infertile) *coming back to reclaim the iron throne.* I never understood why Tywin took the Dany situation so lightly. People thought for a century *dragons were extinct* before Dany *yet she has three dragons,* something regarded *impossible happened.* Nobody really knows the *limit to these mythical creatures,* these myhtical creatures didn't even exist a few years ago. *Who's to really assume that these dragons will have a stunted growth?* Tywin's one of my favorite characters, but this was not a very wise decision.
Don't make me laugh... If sucessfully hiring an assassin to kill a ruler (on another continent, mind you) was possible then everybody would do it. I won't explain why, that should be obvious. Continuosuly paying to kill someone who has dragons that MIGHT grow big is a waste of money, and they are in a civil war. Sending a portion of the army to conquer Mereen is like waving a surrender flag.
@Kapitan Dupa "but then we wouldn't have her chapters - and that's the only reason" Are you dumb, or are you dumb? I honestly do not see any other way to call you after you said that. You know, it's kind of hard to kill somebody with 8,000 Professional soldiers protecting her, + some mercenaries added to that. I look forward to your reply, you are amusing. Right now, what you are saying is that Tywin was a complete and utter idiot even though he was pretty much the sole reason the Lannisters survived the civil war.
He had potential. His mind worked better than his muscels but he chose the latter, he ignored everything as long as he could torture and have fun, because that's how he discovered life at first, if he was raised right and aimed his head to a goal he would be a great person and a worthy king. a common story shared by a lot of people in society.
@@theopalmes0443 Tywin was probably right that massacring one wedding celebration saved many times that number of lives by ending the war sooner than it otherwise would have.
He had great insights and a matching mind. If only he had been brought up by decent parents who loved, provided him a healthy household and right education. They all did ignore him completely, didn't care for him just gave him the things he demanded so he tried every way to get their attention started to throw tantrums and had difficulties with bonding. Many of his troubles was rooted from the way he was brought up. He would have matched Tywin Lannister otherwise.
He'd still have been a murderous, duplicitous monster, but a _competent_ one. There's a story on Spacebattles where Octavian from _Rome_ mindjacks the poor bastard. He has the Kingdom stable in a few months, outplays _everyone,_ and conquers the Free Cities sometime after the story ends. Written by Hotpoint, of XSGCOM fame.
They suffered from opposite issues. Joffrey had the will and intellect to rule, but was never taught any self control. Tommen had the right visions and good intentions, and in a time of peace would have been a fine ruler, but in the shit show he was thrown in his was helpless. The kingdoms got a tyrant or a pacifist.
You might hate Joffrey. But out of every ruler the 7 kingdoms had during the show Joff was the best at his job. Robert was a drunk who didn't care and Tommen was ridiculously passive and Inactive. Cersei would be a decent queen but ever since Tywin died she's letting the kingdom go to shit.
Actually if Tyrion never joined Dany, she wouldn't be able to control one city not to mention trying to invade, conquer and rule entire kingdom. She was (and in some way still is) so delusional. So Tywin's alienation of Tyrion was in some way the catalyst to make this invasion possible. For all his feats, Tywin was a deeply flawed character.
Master Exploder tywin was incredibly gifted in his mind but where he lacked was seeing potential in those he deemed unworthy and thats what eventually destroyed him
Especially from the perspective of the books, Dany's shown to be a somewhat incompetent ruler... a very charismatic leader who inspires tremendous devotion, but also division... she's clearly written as "still a teenage girl despite her position of authority" and lacks the political acumen to be able to handle the complexities of rulership on her own... Tywin refusing to acknowledge the value and rights (especially as legitimate heir of Casterly Rock) of Tyrion is arguably the single biggest factor that has/will contribute to the threat Dany poses to the Seven Kingdoms/Iron Throne
I think one of the most overlooked aspects of Joffrey’s character is that he became what he became because of his parents. He inherited both of their worst qualities and none of their redeeming ones. He inherited his father’s bloodlust, as well his mother’s arrogance, cruelty and lust for power.
Wow mind blowing how much sense Joffrey made now that I look back. He knew the dragons would be a problem like they were before. And he also knew the Lannister army needed more experienced fighting soldiers. 2 things ignored and look what happened lol
It's weird that the Kings of Westeros relied on it's Wardens/Vassals for their armies instead of having multiple experienced commanders train a peasant army to serve directly under the crown. If they'd done this they would be a lot harder to kill or get rid of.
Joffrey was a psycho, but smarter than he seemed... When Tommen was king he was gullible and completely useless, If Joffrey had not been poisoned Margery could shaped him into a much more competent King, Tyrion wouldn't have been falsely accused and still wed to Sansa... albeit being ridiculed mocked and tormented by joffrey... and Tywin would be alive and well to hold everything together, would be a much more interesting dynamic between Tywin and the sparrow... If you fast forward to season 8, Tywin & king joffrey would be a far more interesting foe than cersei... not only that the revelation of Jons real identity would truly be world shattering, as the illegitmacy of roberts rebellion is brought to light.
Im close to catching up in GOT before season 8 comes out. Jack Gleeson played Joffrey so well. Hopefully he comes back to acting soon and find the right part for himself to play that makes him comfortable to be himself.
Regardless of how you feel about the characters, these actors were BRILLIANT. All of them. And the writing, the camera work, everything. The earlier seasons deserve to have been a cultural event.
