@@robotube7361 that’s the case in the books. The singer begged mercy and Joffrey replied that he would be merciful. Instead of taking both he would give him a choice between keeping his fingers or his tongue, and he was given a day to decide.
@Anjelica Snorcket He's saying that your logic "he didn't know he'd get caught" is flawed because he's LITERALLY BROADCASTING it to possibly hundreds of people. Stands to reason he'd get caught. It'd be like me trying to steal while announcing my presence and introducing myself before taking the giant TV from the store...
@Anjelica Snorcket Word spreads. Leak one nude video in the darkest most obscure part of the internet 10 years ago and it may one day be headline news at TMZ. They can't prosecute everyone, but that doesn't mean they won't prosecute anyone. You'd have to be an idiot to believe that...🤦
That poor guy, he knew as he obeyed the order to perform that he was in for a bad time. The worst part is that Robert would probably have laughed at the song and sent him on his way. Maybe lightly scared him like he did to Lancel, but then he would have laughed about it with Eddard
Robert was a good guy in general, and I agree that he did care about his subjects. After all, Robert told Ned that the only thing keeping the peace was “fear and blood”, which implies he’ll do anything to keep peace in the Seven Kingdoms. Problem is Robert was a great general but a mediocre king. If Ned or even Tywin was the king, Westeros probably would have been a lot better.
@@cashthecurator666 In many ways, Robert was the best king. He just minded his own business and let the lords manage the realm on his behalf. If his succession was secure, I'm not sure there would have even been a civil war on his death. As far as father's go, he wasn't too great at that either but I'm pretty sure a peaceful Westeros would also have meant a Tywin as hand of the king, guiding and controlling Joffrey to limit the worst of his behaviours. Hopefully, he would have had some extra time to address the tyrannical tendencies because that was becoming a threat to the stability of the kingdom and Lannister control over it.
@@arandombard1197 Robert left things to others, which would be okay if all his ministers were good men like Jon Arryn, but he had no idea Littlefinger was doing his best to foment civil war and anarchy (and also putting the Crown hideously in debt) and Varys was plotting to bring the Targs back. If he'd paid more attention he might have figured that out.
wasn't Littlefinger acting on Robert's behalf? Robert threw tons of unnecessary banquets and tournaments for entertainment. he is a good person and a fierce warrior, yet i could never portrayed him as a good King... being ignorant is as bad as being tyrant
The fact that Cersei watches her son turn more and more into a psychopath and treats it like nothing, really infuriates me (in a good way since these are actors playing awful human beings and really nailing it). Apple don't fall far from the tree.
you can see in her face near the end of the scene that she does realize it is becoming a problem but she is probably unsure if she should try to do anything.
What's scariest is Joffrey was genuinely amused by the song. He not only doesn't execute him (Joffrey has killed and had people killed for less), he actually gives the musician a choice. Moreover, he's revelled in his cruelty in the past - the fact he doesn't even watch the guy's tongue being torn out means he actually didn't believe he was being cruel. He thought he was being merciful. Such a chilling character.
I don't think "joffrey has killed" anyone, he is not a fighter. He has had plenty of people killed though. I doubt he ever laid hand on anyone himself though, too cowardly for that.
Children of man and children of God, lend me your ears! The righteous father bids you Christians to prayers, and reflection! To you who do not know Christ, let this message be the start of your journey of understanding him, before he returns.
You don't understand the scene, why would they clap? The song is mocking Robert baratheon, the lannisters, joffrey. Ofc they only clap because he does, clapping before he does would be very insulting to him THat's why he's being judged here because the song is mockery to the crown
@@tenzinrapgay9746 In a tavern? It's not uncommon for common folk to make fun of their lords and kings, he was just unlucky that the wrongs ears heard and it got up the rank. For every one bard that gets punished, there'd be a 100 others who get off free.
He was caught singing it, and the person who listened to him the first time was probably checking to see it he was singing the same thing in front of the king, as he did 'in that tavern'. 1:13
He didn’t performed that song in the presence of the king by choice. Someone close to Joffrey (probably Varys) heard the bard singing that song in a tavern. Then the king would give the order to drag that bard into his presence and punish him.
@@Pablothus Varys doesn't enjoy cruelty and gains nothing from the mutilation of this bard. It wouldn't be him. It could be anyone. It could be a random royal guard or a palace worker on their day off in the tavern, overhearing this song. Or just a rumor that started to spread until it reached the wrong ears. Varys would actually do whatever he could to keep this under wraps if he was made aware of it and ask one of his little birds not warn the bard never to do that again, because he risks far more than he's aware of.
"I leave the rest of the matters to you mother"- I love how Joffrey thinks torturing and tormenting random people is his job as king while leaving the governance of the realm (his actual job) to others. What a silly yet brutal vilain.
Joffrey probably announced his intention. When he heard about the song, he ordered that the bard be brought to him and certainly mentioned he wanted to have his tongue cut out. The executioner was not there by happenstance, he knew he had a job to do that day.
The funniest part is how Joffrey, after only being there for like 5 minutes, cuts a guy's tongue off, and is like "Well I did my part, that's enough torture for the morning" and leaves😂
If I was him, I would have offered to write and sing offensive songs about his enemies all over Westoros, as I cannot do that without my fingers or my tongue.
I mean think about how scared shitless you would of been tho? We have the ability to look at this from a safe point of view but in the moment like that its hard to think clearly.
Joffrey: Very well! But you do not require legs to write, play or sing, do you? Ser Ilyn! You can manipulate Joffrey if you play your cards right, but not after you've pissed him off.
I love how they're cauterizing the blade. Like, we're cutting off your tongue but of course we wouldn't want to be responsible for any bacterial infections.
No, I believe firing up the blade wasn't even for disinfecting, they didn't have the idea of pathogens yet. Purpose was to seal blood vessels during the cutting so that the victim won't bleed to death. However they only needed the singer to not die so that he can be observed by citizens as a living example of the king's justice for bad behaviour.
I think it's for blood loss. The tongue is all muscle, I think people have died from bleeding out after losing their tongue. Or they drown in their own blood
@@captainflowers748 For centuries in real life doctors knew about plague and disease, but didn't know about pathogens. It's easy to observe an illness with your eyes. It's much harder to observe microscopic organisms using the same. So people had all sorts of hypotheses for what caused disease, from blood humours to scents to even spiritual failings. When someone first proved the existence of pathogens, the rest of the medical community declared them mad and buried the research because they couldn't bear the thought that they'd been carelessly infecting their own patients via transmitting microbes.
I just noticed how the Hound purposefully blocks Sansa's view and makes her turn to follow Joffrey, so she doesn't have to look at the scene. I hadn't really noticed the subtle ways he tried to protect the Stark girls
Doesn't he, like, show Sansa her own father's head on a pike after this? Thanks for the encouragement to come out here, the Hound. That was a great payoff, seeing my dad's head on a pike
If Joffrey truly did end up in the Seventh Hell, could you imagine if part of his punishment involved him being forced to listen to the minstrel singing this song for all eternity with a new tongue: Bravely bold King Joffrey Rode forth from King's Landing. He was not afraid to die, Oh brave King Joffrey. He was not at all afraid To be killed in nasty ways. Brave, brave, brave, brave King Joffrey. He was not in the least bit scared To be mashed into a pulp. Or to have his eyes gouged out, And his elbows broken. To have his kneecaps split And his body burned away, And his limbs all hacked and mangled Brave King Joffrey. His head smashed in And his heart cut out And his liver removed And his bowls unplugged And his nostrils raped And his bottom burnt off And his penis split... "That's, that's enough music for now! Now I shall recount my victories in the War of the Five Kings!" Brave King Joffrey ran away. ("No!") Bravely ran away away. ("I didn't!") When danger reared it's ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. ("I never!") Yes, brave King Joffrey turned about And gallantly he chickened out. ("You're lying!") Swiftly taking to his feet, He beat a very brave retreat. ("I'M TELLING MY MOTHER!!!) Bravest of the brave, King Joffrey! King Joffrey the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Father-Jaime - who had nearly fought the Wolf of Winterfell, who had nearly stood up to the his vicious dwarf of an Uncle, and who had personally wet himself at the Battle of Blackwater.
As cruel as this is this would have been the standard punishment for someone who wrote a song making fun of a King's death, especially if that king's son was currently ruling on the throne.
It’s definitely a common punishment in Westeros. In HOTD King Viserys says: I’ll have your tongue! After Lord Belaryion calls Rhaenarys children Bastards.
What a masterpiece of a show. They made Joffrey's death in his mother's arms so horrible that for a moment you forget what an absolute monster he was. Has to be one of the top villains in television history. Those old enough to remember JR from Dallas remember Hagman gave the character some humanity. Joffrey had none-pure evil.
He must be based on Nero. Someone like that wouldn't stay in power long, they would be killed in a mutiny. Thats why the magna carter was created, everyone got sick of the erroneous way of one or another lousy leader.
No, his death was clearly quite painful and I enjoyed watching every second, it didn’t make me sympathize with the young little psychopath at all lol. Especially when he blamed Tyrion, who had nothing to do with it. Sure he wanted to kill Joffrey, but who the hell wouldn’t? Literally everyone wanted him dead
As a song writer, I just have to say how easy it would have been for this guy to change a few words and make it a flattering story instead of insulting 😂😂
The context didn't let him do that, he was caught singing that in a local tavern by some of jofrey men, so they knew exactly the lyrics of the song, of he changed that un this moment he would be caught anyway and obliged-treathened to sing the real one...
Aegon made it uncomfortable on purpose. He thought no one should sit easy on it. In fact, not only was it uncomfortable but also dangerous. It had steps and swords on both sides. If one was to fumble and fall they could fall on a sword. The throne is not properly adapted in the show.
That was possibly Joffrey's one redeemable trait. He loved his "father". It was fecking unhealthy, but he thought Robert was a great hero and wanted tae be just like him.
I don't think he actually loved him. I think he just aspired to be like him, and if the bard was singing smack about his dad, he was singing smack about Joffrey
@@tom-vf1xv If I remember correctly, he tried to have Bran assassinated because of an offhand comment his father made. He was a crazy little shit and it's possible he couldn't love anything, but he felt something for his "father". At the very least he took him more seriously than he did anyone else.
@@davidprince6877 Robert was the only person other than Tyrion who tried to discipline him when it was called for, but ironically, Robert wasn't particularly good at committing to anything other than his vices. If Robert had actually made a real effort to be a father, and kept his mother out of his way, Joffrey could have turned out better. You can see the roots of Joffrey's sexism, love of violence, and entitlement in Robert's behaviour. Robert was Joffrey's inspiration, even though he never really learned anything from him.
@@mitchellhayward6492 There is more to it though, remember the scene when Cersei was actually and strangely talking and expressing remorse to Tyrion about Joffrey when the kid was born. She made a comparison of herself and Jaime with the Targaryens and their inbreeding issues. She also said that she and even Jaime should had known better about Joffrey when he was a baby, that when he was born he was a normal baby, but after, his cries started to sound strange. Medically and psychologically speaking, psychopathologies can be detected on children at a very early age based on their crying when they are indeed babies, so it was a great add that this was used on that scene. Tyrion being the sentimental guy he is tried to give comfort and encouragement to his sister, showing that he at least tried to be close to her, even when she hated his entire existence. Ironically, Tywin's kids were themselves a product of inbreeding since Tywin's own wife was Joanna Lannister, the last name was hers to begin with because they were in fact cousins...so go figure.
I’m not saying I agree with what Joffrey did, but I do understand on some level. The show doesn’t really show it, besides a few scenes, but in the books it’s known that Joffrey has a very high amount of respect for Robert. In the show, going off on even Tywin, claiming that Robert won the “real” war by killing Rhaegar, taking the crown & ending the Targaryen’s dynasty There have been kings who have executed men for less & considering Joffrey’s track record, I’d say he was being merciful
Overt mockery of the king or his father or other family is one of those things a bard or jester can do to spice up his act and add a transgressive thrill to his performance and his life. Often tolerated, too, as part of the normal functioning of a medieval style city or, even, at court up to a point. Right until the moment it isn't tolerated anymore. Anyone entering the barding or jesting trades should learn this sort of thing on day one. It's like rock and roll and drugs. Part of the game until it kills you. Or maybe you get to be the bardic Keith Richards.
Everyone's freaking out, I'm just remembering the time Henry VIII had Elizabeth locked in the Tower of London as a little girl for singing a children's song he thought was annoying. I can't imagine what he'd have done in a situation like this. Edit: my bad, he had her locked up elsewhere, not the Tower, in 1544, exiled from the royal court in disgrace and stuck under house arrest until the current queen petitioned for her return.
Some kings (and queens, too) have had rather...subjective sense of humor, especially when jokes become at their expense. At time of absolute monarchies, this was know as "Lèse-majesté": "to do wrong to majesty." Usually it involved insulting dignity of a sovereign, such as a joke. What happened then...well, that usually depended on said majesty. I assume that bard didn't think much of it at the time, since Robert didn't take himself too seriously and Joffrey's antics weren't that common knowledge yet.
@@lindsey7951 like it's SUPER COMMON KNOWLEDGE he locked up his wives AND daughters at various times in the Tower of London for random crap, you can Google it???
@@hydewhyte4364 I'm not sure. I don't recall that scene. I'm almost certain it wasn't in the books since Joffrey is never a POV character in the books.
As cruel and twisted as this was, it does hint at one of Joffrey's few redeeming characteristics which is that he genuinely loved and respected his father, or the man he believed was his father anyway
As cruel and unlikable as Joffrey was, I believe a punishment like that (or worse) would've been the response of many/most rulers in this movie. As a medieval ruler, you cant afford to not be very harsh in those punishments, or people would lose respect for you, which in turn would spark rebellion. The bard not only mocked his kings' fathers' death, but also his parents' relationship.
It's really sad how this ended for the bard. Especially the timing in which he chose to sing this song. Because Robert would have found it hilarious to his own expense.
In the german version he sings "the lioness took the manhood the boar the rest". Still the english version is good but damn I wish the german version would be online.
Shows again how Joffrey doesn't understand a thing. In medieval society, bards and jesters by tradition had immunity from punishment for insulting nobles and the king, since their job was to entertain and sing and joke, and they couldn't do that effectively if they were constantly worried about everything they said offending someone, and since entertainers were few and far between in medieval society, someone who ignored this would find themselves with no one willing to entertain them or their guests. So what does Joffrey do? Destroys the bard's livelihood by taking his tongue.
