I completely agree with the idea that we should commit to a group of people and do ministry with them, I can't however accept that membership is a piece of paper or being included in the church phone directory. That's what I fight. I've served at the same church for years and years in tons of ministries, but I avoid the membership papers. I'm a member because I choose to do ministry here, not because I signed a document.
It seems to me you're getting overwhelmed by splitting hairs. A person that has a relationship with Jesus Christ will not be stumbling over membership issues. Have a vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ be cleansed by his blood and build Church.
People are stumbling over the fact that they have their name on a piece of paper at a local church. I would venture to say that there is heart trouble with individuals like that. Their hidden agendas and ulterior motives. God knows the heart God knows the mind and God will deal with people like that in his own good time.
A clear vision for this is ancient Israel. God gives clear instructions on certain acts that can lead to the exclusion of a person or family from being members of the people of Israel. We are to be accountable to one another in that we all move toward “the land which the Lord our God has promised our ancestors.” Keeping each other accountable in remaining in step with the grace of God by which we are saved. When Paul instructs the churches in his letters by saying “You”, it ought to be translated the southern way: “y’all” We are saved to a community: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And since God knows Himself as persons in communion, we find ourselves and each other as being gathered into that communion through the Holy Spirit; as a church community. The word community refers to a body of believers who are made one in communion; in unity. By saying to the hand that you don’t need the foot, it is a clear indication that the body is not in communion nor unity. By saying that church membership doesn’t matter; that the universal church is all that is needed, 1) Then Paul had no business writing to different churches, 2) Since some denominations are not in communion with one another, then how can the universal church body be a legitimate full body in communion?
We are the Body of Christ and Global Ecclesia (Church).. Local Building Church membership is not Biblical at all. The Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourself. It can be at home in a community, neighborhood, church, etc....Just not Biblical...Just an opinion. I humbly disagree his translation of member. Members are a part of the global Body of Ecclesia, not the local church down the street.....
I've been trying to get my pastor to tell me what can I do as member that I cannot do as a non-member? So far...nothing. So why take the risk of becoming a member and possibly feeling superior to others if it's not going to enhance my Christian walk?
I will say this, people often do not want to become a member because they do not want to commit. They want to be preacher followers and when the preacher leaves they leave. Members are committed to working in the church and staying even when it gets messy. I can remember in the 80's there were many pastors who wouldn't allow even a singer who was not a member of their congregation, to get up and sing or stand behind the pulpit. You could not hold any offices in the church if you were not a member. Still today, you can not vote on anything that goes on inside the church or make decisions if you are not a member.
Understood what John is saying here, still believe that our names are written down in the Lamb's book of life. What else is there to add? The motives for such things within the church can come from selfish ambition, position, fear of man and organizing a pecking order. Our commitment is to the Lord, our tie is to Him as His bride. Yes, we love the body and lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. But signing a document is of man and his need to elevate and secure himself. Making sure to fit into a group often focuses a person gaze on the group and away from Jesus. It's not a rebellious heart that drives me, it's wisdom in seeing the nature of man to make the church about self, however subtle.
There seems to be a lot of legalistic opinions here. Church membership is born out of biblical wisdom. It is more important now than in the 1st century when to be a Christian meant hardship and persecution. People didn't church hop or move from city to city nearly as often. There wasn't so much individualism and anonymity. Identifying true followers of Jesus was easier then. Church membership is biblical, whether in the 1st century informal form or the 21st century formal form. Therefore it is a wise thing, and helps both the existing congregation and the new believer who must learn to be accountable to an elder. One who is afraid of membership is afraid of commitment and/or involvement. They are almost always immature in the faith and overconfident in their understanding of God's word.
No! We do not have to be members of a specific church body or denomination physically, because once you are saved and born again you are now a new member of the entire body of Jesus Christ upon the earth everywhere! But you should not forsake the gathering with other brothers and sisters because like every new born you will need raising and instruction from those mature and strong brethren! "Discipleship" is so extremely important for growth but not often done at all as was ordered by Christ!
1.So you think people will let go of their sins for fear of being kicked out of the church ? 2. This is the kind of person who needs church the most, the one you want to kick out. 3. Who will bring him back to Christ if all believers distance themselves from him ? 4. Make people join church so they can be humiliated later by being kicked out. 5. Imagine Christ asking people to fill a commitment form... 6. Membership usually has a fee 7. Care only for members 8. Prayers only for members
I thought he put it the better than I've heard it. Church membership implies commitment to the Body of Christ. It implies that you understand what it means to follow Christ. It may be a factor in discerning if you're truly born again. It speaks of love which is PARAMOUNT to the Gospel. But I think we need to be gentle with some Christians who are hesitating to join a church. Unfortunately, in any group of people there is the common penchant to bully and abuse based on differences and a sense of camaraderie. We need to address that strongly as being unacceptable. Because it's not the Gospel.
+Jonathan Grandt: The way you ignore the teachings of the Word of God for the sake of your American individualism, makes me very concerned that you don't really believe in the Lord who commands true believers to live together as a church, clearly spelled out in Matthew 18:16-18, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, Hebrews 10, etc.
@@yeoberry We can even learn a lot from the old testament; peole of God lived together and they had their names on the list. How could you trust the government or school more that elders of your local church? Almost no one hesitate putting their names on the list for other circular commitments! As long as you're a child of God (born again) and find the local church teaching Christ (the Gospel) with other sound doctrines; why can you hesitate to join?!
Did he once suggest that membership was a salvation issue? No "for sake of tradition....make void ..pwr of God". Seriously ?! He is saying it is wise. Do you not think the disciples were an example for us. The early church was an example for us? And as for the body, functioning and function well are two different things. Agree? You can be attached to the body and still be borderline useless. They will know we are Christians by our fruit. Build your house upon on a rock. Make a good foundation on a solid spot. We as believers should desire to be close to and connected and involved in the lives of fellow believers. We should want to spend time with them in fellowship. So why fight against the suggestion? Think of the trouble Paul went through to be close to the early church. The time and energy used to travel to and from. And when he couldn't be in the presence he wrote to them. The strong bond between believers binding by a supernatural force. And I thank The Lord.
Hi Being a born again member of the universal church and sealed by the Holy Spirit. The local church says I can not be a part of them if I do not sign a membership foam. How does Christ feel that a member of HIS church can not enter the local church? How do the pastors know if their members are born again. By one signing a membership does not make him a member of the Universal church. If a born again believer does what other members do or even more. Just because he has not signed a membership form one can not belong to the local church Please could i get a membership form from your church to see what yhe REQUIREMENTS are yo be a member
NO. Only the Pastor & the church leaders have any legal status as "members" laypeople have no official status 'members' in the eyes of the law. The union with other believers is invisible & spiritual requiring no formal written or oral contract
Too many local churches are using membership for monetary reasons first and ministry second. This is abuse in the church. We need to give but out of consciousness from the heart by conviction of the Holy Spirit and not by guilt.
The content of this entire channel and other church channels are completely blocked for my country. No audio. I don't understand why... if they truly want to spread the word to all and if this is not a commercial organization for making money, why is it all blocked?
I'm still apart of the body of Christ even if you cannot have access or choose not to go to a building. There IS only on church. ;-) I'm an introvert and I don't talk well with hypocrites. I've gone to church all my life and it's never worked out well for me, I've tried, I've been hurt more than have given or befitted. Another thing is I can't make friends with people from the church, once you leave, you're out of their circle. Now why would I want to be associated with people like that?
Hi If I am born again, I become a daughter or son God, I am sealed by the Holy Spirit. Now If I DO NOT sign a membership church which requires various things, like you must be water baptized or you are NOT WELCOME IN THIS CHURCH. HOW DOES JESUS FEEL THAT A LOCAL CHURCH DOES NOT ACCEPT ONE OF HIS MEMBERS OF HIS CHURCH? How can a Bible believer join the church when he IS THE CHURCH? WE the church when we meet together we are gathering with other church members. ARE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS THAT ARE ASKED TO LEAVE FOR NOT SIGNING CHURCH MEMBERSHIP, LESS IMPORTANT THAT NON BELIEVERS ENTERING THE CHURCH.
Our lord Jesus Christ instructed us to go out into the world and make "DISCIPLES" not church folks! Disciples are taught the knowledge, wisdom and the revelation of Jesus Christ by their brethren and have their support in all things. They are also given understanding and imparted the anointing, and revelation of their authority in Jesus Christ over all power, and powers of the enemies of our faith! Church folks may look, and sound the part but may not even be saved!
John Piper is an encouragement to the body of Christ but his words are not infallible. The Bible refers to churches by their geographical location not the name of their building or 501c3. We misuse the word church. It is not a small body that meets exclusively but the Church is a body of believers worldwide. Putting your name on a list does not make someone committed or accountable. Pastors - How many members attend your church and do not serve and are not accountable to anyone?
Do I have to be a member of your household for you to care about my soul and operate in your gift with me? So, regardless of whether or not I am redeemed, if I become disrespectful in your house, saved, sanctified, filled with the Holy Spirit or not, you have the right to put me out. One doesn't have to have membership for you to exercise your authority, and put such a one out of your house. Scripture says where 2 or 3 are gathered together he's in the midst. A husband, wife and children don't have to leave their home to go to a local church, for service, to be validated as believers and function, in who they already are.... *Members* They can have worship service at home in a family of 2 or more. So, putting someone out of a local church, doesn't take away their God given invitation and redemption status, as a *member of the body of Yahshua.* They are being punished, going to their time out, naughty corner, for self reflection and introspection, of their behavior. Our covenant commitment is with Yah. Shalom🙏❤️
Shoots himself in the foot regarding discipline... So what, you can only discipline members who have signed a piece of paper? And if someone in attendance who isn't a member is living in sin you can't discipline them? And if as a member you are disciplined and put out of the church, are you only being put out of the membership? No, may it never be! The clear biblical picture is that we are a Christian community, members of one another, the body and the temple of Christ, that we are accountable to eachother, with clear leadership, submission, discipleship, discipline, structure and order. But none of that is achieved by a formal membership process in the picture we see within the new testament and neither does it need to be. The picture of discipline is that anyone in attendance at the church IS submitted to them and may be expelled in discipline if necessary and that that expulsion is complete. There is no additional need for a formal membership outlined in scripture to make this possible, in fact it is counter intuitive.
Church membership is not biblical...If you are already a member of the body of Christ, you don't need to become a member of any church organization...The apostles of Jesus did not make church members of the body of Christ
Or, I'm a person who sits on a pew, as the ministry goes through the local leader of a church, I give my tithe, as the ministry goes through the headship or leader. That is not being a member of Jesus Christ. that is being a follower of man. Search the scriptures and you will be free of men. We are not suppose to have a pastor as our go between. No one is to be our head or covering only Christ! Peace!
where about the Bible talks about being a "member" in the local church? if anybody is in the body of Christ what being a "member" in a local church means?... Ah! man and his add ups to the word of God!
What he says involving 1cor12 is false. The passage does not talk about members being “the head”. It does say eye and ear, but not head. He snuck that word in. Either he’s lying or just hasn’t read it recently. Sure a head has an eye but the eye is not the head. Unless you really believe that an ear is literally the same as the head... I’m sure he interprets this to mean that each “local body” (another made up term) has a headship other than Christ and consists of elders who are the eyes ears and such... When will these men start teaching without adding?
+Jonathan Grandt: You're an individualistic pagan who needs to repent. Listen to what Piper teaches and submit to the commands of the Lord on how true believers must live together as a church, clearly spelled out in Matthew 18:16-18, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, Hebrews 10, etc.
His focus was more on the passage about being able to kick a person out if they weren't being repentant enough and that is more about control, not freedom in Christ Jesus Sounds like his loyalty is to the Pope, like so many others
Membership is not biblical. Signatures words of commitment and pledges or legal contracts are unbiblical. The Bible does not instruct believers to make covenant vows with people. Piper must know this.
+Jonathan Grandt: Your individualism is what is not Biblical. Membership is made necessary by Matthew 18:16-18, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, Hebrews 10, etc. The Bible has numerous examples of people making covenant vows to each other, such as marriage. Your claims are lies.
@@yeoberry show we where the Bible says I should make a covenant with other believers?? Please show me!! JESUS CHRIST saved me!!! I never read where HE preached I must make a covenant with my brothers or sisters in CHRIST
Why? I'm trying to understand this. If I attend a church, I'm a member. If I fall into sin, the elders and the congregation can put me out just like they would anybody else. I don't see why church discipline, in this case, would require me to become an "official" member.
