John Shelby Spong - Fourth Gospel Warns Against Literal Reading 

I had served Mass with him as an acolyte

How is it different from "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism?"

not at all sir, the bible uses metaphors, figures of speech an is not always to be taken literally except where its literal. the bible has to use metaphors and figures of speech cause its trying to communicate to us from an infinite perspective as we are finite. spong is far overdoing it in many areas in His lieralism. when jesus says he IS the bread life -he is not saying he is bread!! the devil is like a dragon or serpent but he is really not. However when jesus says I AM the alpha and omega or i rose from the dead. thats literal but again spong decimates the holy bible in many areas an is heretical thru and thru. not because i say it-because the bible very is clear on essential doctrine. you had been do more research friend.

Appreciate the threats. Happy Holidays.

@@bobfree1226 - I appreciate the nuance in your post. I believe in God. I believe that Jesus Christ was real. I don't believe that he was the son of God, except in the way we all are children of God. My lack of belief in his specific divinity does not, in my opinion, hurt the core of Jesus's message as generally portrayed in the Bible. I have never understood why the trinity is important. Given the broader message of the New Testament, I have come to believe that the statement attributed to Jesus as him being the only way to God is a misquoted statement. It seems more likely Jesus was saying that as he had to think about God personally, so must we all. Clearly, I am taking liberties with the Bible to come to my conclusions, but I think they are reasonable conclusions. Stay well.

@@StrategicWealthLLC ALL heresies begin with the Nature of GOD,as Jesus said to the Apostles , Who do men say that I AM? here Jesus is provoking a direct answer. Only GOD can forgive sin,and Jesus must be GOD, as He told the Pharasees ,which one of you can convict me of sin! In order for our sins to be forgiven we must look to the cross in order to recieve Salvation.Thats what the Gospel is all about.GOD pitching HIS tent with us as Isaiah said.Son of GOD means God.You cannot be part God. When Jesus was talking with the pharasees He said to them, which Good deeds do you want to stone me for? An they said we dont want to stone you for any good deeds but for Blasphemy,your a Mere Man,yet you make yourself Equal to God!! the Pharsees also were persecuting Jesus because He called God His Father,making again himself Equal to GOD!! They knew exactly what He was saying!! ALL people are Saved by Jesus Alone,but we dont have to KNOW jesus to be saved.All in the old testament and before Jesus did not know jesus but was told that a deliverer was to come.Jesus again told the pharesees Moses who you put your hope and faith in,is the very one who will accuse you,for not believing in ME. In Romans Paul says no man has any excuse for not believing,as We all have the light of conscience and the light of creation within us. john 1 verse 4-9 says All men have grace n light which is christ. IF we have faith in GOD and respond to the light, then he will give us the lIght of christ. Read 1 john ,where he says we beheld HIS GLORY,we touched HIM,ate with HIM. Thomas my LORD and MY GOD. Titus we are awaiting the Great God and Our Savior Jesus Christ. So BRUCE its imperative where and who you put your faith n trust in. GOD reveals Himself as 3 persons or personailties within the GodHead. We cannot comprehend that but we Can apprehend that from scripture. NO man can forgive Sin,as ALL men are Sinners. ONLY GOD can forgive sins!! God Bless

Bob Free - So says the Bible, but the Bible was not written by Jesus or God. It was not organized by Jesus or God. It was written and organized by men that say they were inspired by Jesus or God. Feel free to organize your beliefs off of someone else’s beliefs all you like. I prefer to use my own mind.

I do not know if I can agree on that. I would assume that people are honest about their religious beliefs and try to worship what they believe to be true. But their depictions of their God/Gods do not line up. They contradict each other on nearly every point of doctrine and description of the Deity and its actions even within the same religion and the same denomination. It is the inability to spread their beliefs via rational discussion that leads to the sword as the only method to ensure their religious ideas win. As for me, I do not pray to any God because I do not believe in one. There may be one that exists. I do not know. What I do know is that I do not know nor do I have any justifiable reason to believe in one. As such I must be content in admitting that I do not believe in one yet. I used to believe in Young Earth Creationism as I was a Non Denominational Christian for 18 years. That version of God cannot be true though so I quite that line of thinking for more philosophical thinking and a search for the truths we have found in the sciences. Science is neutral in regards to the Question of what we ought to believe about supernatural things and so I try to remain open to what others might present as evidence of their God but I cannot find it. I must be content in knowing that if a God exists then it is the job of that God to reveal himself if the deity so chooses.

The "Gods" sound an awful lot like an allegory for the inner dual nature of man (peace:wrath; love: hate; vengeful; merciful) to me. These are indwelling Spirits in all of mankind.

Leonardo's Truth You lost me at cretins. Everything after was blahblahblahblah! Wisdom from God is pure, peaceable, full of good fruit, easy to be entreated...James.

Motivated reasoning? I don't know, but this is a cesspool of delusion and demonic doctrines.

What do you call it when someone knows the guilty verdict and theory is known ahead of time, and uses white hot torture instruments that are ok because they don't draw blood? Any evidence of witches or heretics aside, that's Satan right there as an executioner. The churches own the world.

I read that Tolstoy said Jesus was his role model, but he did not regard Jesus as divine. He said his God was love, in some undefined way, and this his god did not create the world. He didn't say, as far as I know, whether the God of the Old Testament exists or not.

Do you agree with the Bible that gays should 'suffer death'', beat your sex slaves, and stone rape victims? How can that ever be holy? That's the devil, wanting to kill and hurt and destroy. However of some reason the Bible doesn't agree or love or mercy. Some deserve death and hate. Some not. Hmmmmm

Actually, the miracle of Jonah was that he did not die. Three times you expect him to die yet he lived. Jonah disobeys God. Jonah ch.1 v.3 *_But Jonah ran away from the Lord and headed for Tarshish._* Jonah is thrown overboard into a raging storm. Jonah ch. 1 v.15 *_Then they took Jonah and threw him overboard, and the raging sea grew calm._* Jonah is swallowed and then three days later, regurgitated by a fish. Jonah ch.1 v.17 *_Now the Lord provided a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights._* Jonah ch.2 v.10 *_And the Lord commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land._* So as we can see, Jesus was talking about walking out of the whole thing alive, when everyone thought he should be dead... Or maybe not! LOL It's all allegorical anyways.

Whales don't eat people dipshit.

Jonah goes to the underworld /sheol in that story

He's already here dipshit. He's in your heart. Keep believing your masters and stay a slave.

Isaiah 29:13-16 Revised Standard Version (RSV) 13 And the Lord said: “Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men learned by rote; 14 therefore, behold, I will again do marvelous things with this people, wonderful and marvelous; and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the discernment of their discerning men shall be hid.” 15 Woe to those who hide deep from the Lord their counsel, whose deeds are in the dark, and who say, “Who sees us? Who knows us?” 16 You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay; that the thing made should say of its maker, “He did not make me”; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, “He has no understanding”? Isaiah 3:18-26 Revised Standard Version (RSV) 18 In that day the Lord will take away the finery of the anklets, the headbands, and the crescents; 19 the pendants, the bracelets, and the scarfs; 20 the headdresses, the armlets, the sashes, the perfume boxes, and the amulets; 21 the signet rings and nose rings; 22 the festal robes, the mantles, the cloaks, and the handbags; 23 the garments of gauze, the linen garments, the turbans, and the veils. 24 Instead of perfume there will be rottenness; and instead of a girdle, a rope; and instead of well-set hair, baldness; and instead of a rich robe, a girding of sackcloth; instead of beauty, shame.[a] 25 Your men shall fall by the sword and your mighty men in battle. 26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; ravaged, she shall sit upon the ground. Matthew 24:9-14Revised Standard Version (RSV) 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then many will fall away,[a] and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come. Matthew 12:36-37 Revised Standard Version (RSV) 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Daniel Oliphant, Have you ever thought of the second coming as something that takes place within you spiritually speaking? Think of the possibility that you yourself could achieve the mind of christ. Christ consciousness is an intriguing notion that may answer your quest in a way that best meets your needs and your need for understanding.

Matthew 24:4-14 Revised Standard Version (RSV) 4 And Jesus answered them, “Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then many will fall away,[a] and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.

Daniel Oliphant I appreciate your interpretation is a literal one and that's fine, but I see the gospel stories as having layered meanings with multiple meanings that can be interpreted in many ways. If you don't mind, try looking up Bill Donahue.

If you believe that, you don't know much about John Shelby Spong's teachings and understanding of the resurrection.

No, he doesn't. iN 1998, Spong published in the newsletter for the diocese of Newark his "Twelve Points for Reform." Point No. 7 reads as follows: "Resurrection is an action of God. Jesus was raised into the meaning of God. It therefore cannot be a physical resuscitation occurring inside human history."

I agree with you John. I am not a fan of Spong's presentation above.

I don't think the entire Christian worldview -- turn the other cheek, for instance -- is based on the resurrection of Jesus. I agree that one isn't really a Christian, as is usually meant, if one doesn't believe in the resurrection.

I can't believe he has so many people fooled.