CJ6 XU6RU you don't know how lucky you are actually. most people are introduced to Christianity through mega church and evangelical types, which is terrible.
As a former "insider," I find conversations like these to be immensely valuable. I grew up in a very fundamentalist evangelical Christian home (abandoned it at 18) and watching these videos and Peterson lectures has really opened my eyes to how unbelievably hollow and shallow my religious upbringing was. It's no wonder millennials are leaving the church in droves; the superficial moralizing and literalist way the Bible is taught in evangelical circles is staggering in its arrogant and immature approach to scripture. I've come to have a newfound appreciation for Christianity because I was never taught the deeper symbolism and how much depth it can have when you actually engage seriously with the text and not just apply these incredibly simple-minded and superficial interpretations. It's a downright travesty how modern churches refuse to humble themselves and grapple with the text and traditions with the seriousness they deserve.
@JonathanPageau I've been listening to your talks for months. You've been an almost daily source of inspiration as I return to the Christian faith. Jordan Peterson totally deconstructed my leftist ideology, and then you helped me find something beautiful to replace it. I hope I can meet you someday. Thank you!
yes, please talk more Jonathan. I am an Anglican who grew up Baptist but I love the Orthodox. I love my Catholic brothers, but I would love to see you take on the fragmentation of the Church. I was very confused for a long time.
WizardOfTheNous Sage? No. Your background is interesting. I just attended a small new church and the pastor is an ordained Baptist pastor AND Anglican priest. The gathering was a mix of the two traditions.
I think, the great thing about JBP's relationship to religion is that it enables ecumenical conversations like this. Peterson is discussed by Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Jews, Buddhists and even Atheists. And people in all of these groups try to claim JBP as on of their own while others decry him heretic. It's beautiful to watch! And all the while Jordan remains the sole member and metropolitan of the "church of saint Joachim of fiore". JBP once said that Jung was dangerous for the established churches because Jung was a "true Christian". If anyone, I would categorize Jordan the same way.
Kek is working through Peterson. JBP is a unknowingly a prophet of Kek - The One True Messiah of the Primordial Watery Abyss The "Ogdoad" ANKH of Khemenu called El Ashmunien today. The Ogdoad of Khemenu is the oldest company of Gods and contrary to popular belief Dhwty (Thoth) of Khemenu is the One True God who gave birth to Reeeee - NeKekUr - "Nefer" - The Son who Cometh Forth By Ancient Day (Micah 5:2) The Ogdoad is four aspects divided by two - the law of duality that lives and breaths inside me and you. The Frogs of revelation and serpents of the abyss. The frog is always the natural food of the snake. Nu is the Primordial Watery Abyss, The Chaotic Flood itself. Now we call Nu "Noah" Kek is the Eleventh Hour, the emergence of the light of Revelation from the abyss. Heh is Eternity, Infinity, in life and in death The fourth is the manifestation and goes by various names often Amun or Amen! Kek + Heh = Khem (Hm) The Eternal Light of Nu "Khemenu" Nu is the flood called Noah And then came Khem (Hm) Ham The early Egyptian Kings made pilgrimage to the Isle of Elephantine to pray for the flood The Temple of Elephantine was to Khnem (Khn n) Canaan Kings would make pilgrimages to Khnum's temple to secure the inundation (and with it, the life of the Two Lands) for another year. Khnum therefore was “King of Kings” Khnum was identified with many other gods. The Great Hymn of Khnum lists his forms of apparition in various localities: Ba-of-Re in "First-of-towns", Ba-of-Shu at Iunyt, Ba-of-Osiris in Shas-hotep, Ba-of-Geb in Herwer, Horus-Metenu in Semenhor. He was a protector as Lord-of-the-booth (i.e. Anubis) looking after the embalmment of Osiris. Senusret III thought of him as a warrior god protecting the country Khnum, binder of the (Nine) Bows, smiter of the Shasu” J. H. Breasted, Ancient Records of Egypt, Part Two, § 170 Kek is Keb (Geb) Sun of Nu (Shu) Kek is Khem, Khnem, Min (Menes), Ptah, Anubis, Khenti-Khem, Khemti-Amentiu, Osiris, Re, Eshmun, IshmaEl, and Nefer too. Kek is the Ka, Ba, and Khu Kek is the Sun of Nu Kek is Khem which is Hm which is Ham and Shem too This can be seen in another important city called Akhmim. In Sahidic Coptic: Ϣⲙⲓⲛ/Ⲭⲙⲓⲛ/Ⲭⲙⲓⲙ Shmin/Kmin/Kmim but was probably pronounced locally something like Khmin or Khmim. Monasteries abounded in this region from a very early date. Khem (Hm) and Shem are the Same. I Samuel 1 there was a man name Elkhanan who was the son of HeruKhem Khemenu is the Origin of the Ogdoad, Cosmic Egg (Re), The BenBen Stone, the oldest chapters of the Book of Coming Forth By Day, NeKekUr "Nefer" - The Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. The First Exodus was FROM Khemenu after the death of King Pepi II and the fall of the 6th Dynasty and ONE TRUE God, Dhwty called Thoth of Khemenu. Khemenu (Ḫmnw) was the Ancient Egyptian name of the Middle Egypt city which stood on the border of ancient Upper and Lower Egypt close to the First Cataract of the Nile and consequently very near the location of Nazlet Khater discoveries. The meaning of Khemenu is often attributed to "eight-town", after the Ogdoad, a group of eight deities who represented the world before creation. The Greeks called it Hermopolis, after Hermes, whom the Greeks identified with Thoth and the city was the main cult center of Thoth (Dhwty), the GOD OF THE WORD and the patron of scribes. According to the Egyptian “Book of Coming Forth by Day” (erroneously called “Book of the Dead”), he possessed all secret knowledge on 36,535 scrolls. “Thoth” itself is a Greek translation of ḏḥwty “Djehuti”. among the Phoenicians (Canaanites) Thoth (dhwty “Djehuti”) was called Taatus and the Greeks called him Tartarus. Dhwty “Djehuti” is “Thoth” of Khemnu and “Thoth” of Khemnu is Tatenen of the Memphites, Tehuti in Heliopolis, Taatus of the Canaanites and Tartarus of the Greeks. The Phoenician creation story involves Taautus, whom Philo of Byblos (Kebni) identified as Thoth (ḏḥwty “Djehuti”). The Mother Goddess Môt is produced and intelligent animals formed together as an egg. Then Môt came forth by the light and the heavens were created and the elements found their stations. To Ancient Egyptians Ma'at was the personification of the fundamental order of the universe, without which all of creation would perish. She was also considered the wife of Thoth (dhwty). In Greek Myth TARTAROS (Tartarus) one was the primordial god (protogenos) of the stormy pit of Tartaros that lies beneath the foundations of the earth. He was the body of the pit itself rather than an athropomorphic deity. Tartaros was envisaged as the opposite of the sky, an inverted-dome lying beneath the flat earth. Together the Ouranion-dome and Tartarean-pit enclosed the entire cosmos in an egg-shaped or spherical shell. On the topic of Tartarus, it is worth noting Tartarus mated with Gaia (Earth) and produced one offspring named Typhoeus--a monstrous, serpentine storm-giant who attempted to seize the throne of heaven. Zeus vanquished the creature and cast it back down into the pit of Tartaros where it remained as the cosmic-source of hurricanes and storm winds. Another offspring of Gaia was Kekrops a mythical king of Athens who, according to Eusebius reigned for fifty years. The name is not of Greek origin according to Strabo Kekrops was a culture hero, teaching the Athenians marriage, reading and writing, and ceremonial burial. He is said to have been the first who deified Zeus, and ordained sacrifices to be offered to him as the supreme Deity. He is likewise affirmed to have been the first who built altars and statues of the gods, offered sacrifices, and instituted marriage among the Athenians, who, before his time, it seems, lived promiscuously. Pausanias tells us that he forbade the sacrificing of any living The name survived into Coptic as Ϣⲙⲟⲩⲛⲉⲓⲛ(Shmounein), from which the modern name, El Ashmunein, is derived. This transposition of "Kh" and "Sh" is interesting as it illustrates a direct connection to the "Land of Khn n". An inscription at the Temple of Thoth in Khemenu call Thoth "The Lord of Eshmun". Eshmun (Phoenician: lʾšmn) was a Phoenician god of healing and the tutelary god of Sidon. Eshmun was worshipped in Tyre, Beirut, Cyprus, Sardinia, and Carthage as well. We can see Khemenu's modern-day name of El Ashmunien references "Eshmun" or more literally, the modern-day name of Khemenu is "Ishmael". Khemenu does in fact have some connection to the number eight but it likely means "THE EIGHTH". According to Eusebius of Caesarea, Phoenician author Sanchuniathon wrote that Sydyk, 'The Righteous', first fathered seven sons equated with the Greek Cabeiri or Dioscuri, no mother named, and then afterwards fathered an eighth son by one of the seven Titanides or Artemides. (Kotharat). The name Eshmun appears to mean 'the Eighth'. The Kotharat, or Kotharot, or Kathirat (various suggested pronunciations of Ugaritic ktrt), 'the skillful ones' were a group of northwest Semitic goddesses appearing in the Ugartic texts as divine midwives. They are the only Canaanite deities that only appear in a group and are associated with the swallow. They are personified by the Kohathite Levites. In the story of Aqhat the chieftain Daniel, in order to obtain a child, for seven days feasts the Kotharat who have entered his house. They are called: the swallow-like daughters of the crescent moon, those [artful] in the pleasure of the bed of conception. On the seventh day they depart. Daniel’s wife conceived. We also see the Swallows referenced in the Text of Pepi I in relation to the “Tree of Life”. In “Nietzsche's Zarathustra: Notes of the Seminar Given in 1934-1939 by C.G. Jung, Volume 2”, Lecture VII, dated 7 December 1938, first published 1969 (2014 Routledge imprint), Page 1437; Carl Jung references the swallows from the Text of Pepi I which was contributed by “Mrs. Crowley”. Mrs. Crowley was a member of Carl Jung’s inner circle and interestingly enough, the notion of a hermaphroditic God, drawn from Kabballah, was suggested to Jung by her, and commented on by Jung in Dream Analysis Seminar, Lecture VII, 5 March 1930 “This King Pepi went to the great isle in the midst of the Field of Offerings, over which the lords make the swallows fly. The swallows are the imperishable stars. They give to this King Pepi the tree of Life whereof they live that ye Pepi and the Morning Star may at the same time live thereof." The Morning Star is Pepi Also cited by James Breasted "This King Pepi Knows his Mother, he forgets not his mother the white crown shining..." (p130) "Give thou bread to this King Pepi, from this thy eternal bread.." (p131) "This King Pepi opened his path like the fowlers he exchanged greetings with the lords of the kas. He went to the great isle in the midst of the Field of Offerings over which the lords make the swallows fly. The swallows are the imperishable stars. They give this King Pepi the TREE OF LIFE whereof they live that ye (Pepi and the Morning Star) may at the same time live." Breasted, James Henry, Development of Religion and Thought in Ancient Egypt: Lectures Delivered on the Morse Foundation at Union Theological Seminary, Scribner's Sons, 1912, Pages 130 -135 archive.org/stream/developmentofrel00brea#page/130/mode/2up Utterance 486 of the Text of King Pepi describes the suffering of Christ 2300 years before his birth www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pepi1text.htm Text of Pepi I: Line 449: “Pepi is Thoth your avenger and not Set the one who stole it. The gods make supplication and the two companies of gods rejoice when they meet this Pepi” Budge, Sir Ernest Alfred Wallis, Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection, Volume 2, 1911, page 328
Jonathan, I don't think it's the weakness of the Orthodox Church to have it's hierarchy divided among various countries, cultures and territorial entities. It's decentralized nature prevents subversion, infiltration and drastic changes in theology. We don't want something like Vatican II happening in the Orthodox Church. The organization of the Orthodox Church is better than both RCatholic and Protestant, because the Orthodox Church managed to preserve both cultural diversity and richness of Orthodox cultures, and manages to preserve unified theology and the original teachings of Christ. In, USA,however, I do agree, all national and ethnic Churches should be organized into a single Orthodox Church of the USA, in English language, to ease evangelizing. Also, ethnophyletism is a problem, in Ukraine, for example.
Very glad you two brought up CS. Lewis. He was one of the big influences on me in my early days as a believing Christian. I especially remember him talking about how each age has its own spirit. The spirit of the age is an ideologue bubble that we're trapped in. So reading old books helps you to see past your own spirit of the age. Ideas that have pasted the test of time have proved useful to people trapped in different spirits of the age.
Absolutely nothing Christian in Person. A person who is not sure about Christ's resurrection which is the foundation of Christianity isn't Christian. He might call himself one but in the eyes of Christ, he's lost.
@Moto Moto yes I agree but believers are called by Christ to go out and share the gospel and be Christ-like. This includes coming alongside folks who are still grappling with their own worldviews. Our walk with Christ is a process.
Very interesting stuff! I'm an atheist, but I had similiar experiences of... lets call it "pattern-acknowledgement". But that is, because I'm a pretty nerdy and avid videogamer. despite my beliefs, seems like I was kinda religious after all, and from the very beginning. looking forward to more stuff!
I'm excited to watch this new video! I can't wait. Prof. Jordan Peterson has started an international 21st century renaissance of Christianity. Jonathan Pageau is my favorite person on Christian symbolism.
I was cracking up too listening to Jonathan Pageau recount his experience of church services in Africa. I used to attend Mass in Kiswahili in the 90's at Mavurunza Dar that went on for hours with the microphone, crazy choir conductor and ngoma drums accompanying zealous singing. Sitting on my perch of privilege on a mninga wooden backless bench, it was the children sitting on the floor silently who were a good example to me to stop being impatient through my Sunday ordeal. Shame on me!
This was such a joy to listen to! As a Roman Catholic (from the Philippines, just to help with the mandatory diversity and inclusion stuff we have to comply with ;)) who happens to be a Jordan Peterson fan, I am so glad that he's being a catalyst for religious discussions like these. I also loved the discussion between Peterson and Ben Shapiro contrasting Jewish and Christian traditions. Is there any chance we can get Jonathan Pageau, Paul VanderKlay , Bishop Robert Barron, and Jordan Peterson in the same room and get them talking for three hours or so?
Jordon Peterson help me reconcile my "science brain" with my Christian faith...because of him,I found myself here! How wonderful is that?!?Its in these discussions..I find some order in the chaos,we all do!🌺
Benjamin Wood You can say that again, I'm Unitarian and to me liturgy just sounds like some weird Catholic Hoodoo that we, at one time (because REASONS!), felt the urgent need to abolish or rename and perform in normal clothing. Lol
Wonderful conversation Jonathan!!! you got to keep doing what you are doing and being truthful to your call!!! ( I was almost in tears when you related about your friend priest wanting to disassociate with you... God bless you!!!
I am finding that soaking myself in the language and ideas of JBP and you - and thinking this stuff through with Paul's vids - is then coming out in the way I am presenting ideas. I was working this morning with my youngest 'buckos' (7-11 year olds!) and talking to them in their chapel service about Ash Wednesday and Holy Communion. Totally different approach to usual. I used the ideas of 2+2=4 truth does not cover everything. That other truth needs a different medium like dressing up strange clothes, standing behind an altar and telling a story with symbols and ritual.
I’ve been watching Peterson and you guys for awhile, and I am getting SO much out of this! As an evangelical Protestant, the symbolic truths embedded into scripture are mostly unknown to me. I find the entire discussion fascinating and deeply meaningful. I feel that these discussions have strengthened my faith and helped me see a whole new universe of meaning. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Your passion for this work is inspiring! God bless! Thanks
My experience in Papua New Guinea was very similar to Jonathan’s! It was extremely testing for a short attention span such as me, but it was amazing. Prayer and singing until 2 am, food, crying and laughing. Amazing experiences are to be had in third world countries when it comes to the church. Paul’s laughter about Jonathan’s church time in Africa was great.
Christianity was shoved down my throat growing up. I grew skeptical and become an atheist. I'm slowly allowing it back in my life because of JBP's logical approach.
I've been watching each of your videos now and then, and it was interesting to listen to you talk about your common denominator Jordan Peterson. Thanks for the video.
This talk was excellent. It was especially interesting to hear more about Jonathan's experiences in church in different countries and communities. He should talk more about that. Many of us want to give church a try but have little or none previous experience and are not sure what to expect or how to find a suitable place for us (weird JBP followers) in a religious community
Be prepared for a journey! I suggest you try attending different types of churches for several months, unless you get to a point of dismissing them earlier. There are several things to take into consideration: 1. Listen to the preaching. Is it in line with scripture? Is it oriented towards the glory of God or the conveniences of men? If it sounds like a motivational speech, it's probably the later. If you don't come away with deep things to think about, the preaching might be too shallow. 2. Observe the congregation. Are you being welcomed warmly? Do you see Christian love and humility among them? Be fair, they're only human, but there is a distinctly different feeling between being in a church filled with genuine believers and one with mostly Christians by name only. 3. Look at their programming. Is it mostly geared towards loving and helping those in need as well as serious study and prayer times, or mostly geared towards entertainment? These are just a few hints, by all means attend some mid-week study and prayer times and there you will see the actual strength or weakness of the church.God bless.
Great discussion. From a person that belongs to the Reform Church I do enjoy both takes. As Christians we are to listen and look at everything critical. I really enjoy listening to Jordan and others around him. They are all great tools to continue searching for Truth
Prof. Peterson is a true mystery, not only gives he joy to the believers, evokes the hate and envy of the pharisees, he also creates Christian Atheists like maybe Carl Benjamin aka Sargon of Akkad and Calvinist (aka iconoclastics) worshiper of pictures also known as idolaters like, well you got me. I don't mean this mean. Stop of irony: I loved this conversation and still feel warm and fluffy inside. God bless you gentlemen and thanks for it.
I like that fact that these guys can laugh about their experiences and observations. A sense of humor, I believe, is a sure sign of the lightness of spirit we should all try for.
This was a real joy. You brought a smile to my face - many times in fact. Thank you for all your work, and hope to see in you guys together again in another video soon.
54:20 Oh my God, I think Paul is so right. I have been watching Paul's sermons and I think I watch them the same way I watch Jordan Peterson's lectures. I take a lot of deep insights from them and see things differently as I get them. I'll admit Paul stoked my interest in protestantism. But then I remember last Christmas I went to Christmas mass, with the new understanding from watching Jordan Peterson, having an open mind for learning something, and I had what I would call a deep religious experience. All the iconography, the liturgy, and the message converged and it was a profound experience. And I really like how Jonathan afterwards gave credit to protestant sermons and tied them back to Jordan Peterson's lectures. Maybe if we can have protestant sermons without the iconoclasm we can revivify the Church for modern people. Amazing, I knew this would be a great conversation!
Great interview!! Love your laugh, Paul! Thank you Jonathan for interviewing Paul! I also attend church in a French parish (catholic) with 20 people attending on a good day. It's the only French parish in the Winnipeg diocese (inside the city of Wpg, I should specify). What keeps us together is the communal coffee/lunch we always have afterwards. We have great discussions on everything and anything during that time... If you're ever in Winnipeg, come visit us! Thanks again!!
I really enjoyed the tangent about the benefits of living amongst the poor for a while. I did so for 3 years and would like to second Paul's thoughts on the matter. Jonathan, sometime I would absolutely love to chat with you about your time overseas. Kind regards! :-)
I saw your website and totally agree about big donors. We worked with MCC, Mennonite Central Committee which has a very hands on and local approach to help. Some of their projects, like the sand dam project in Kenya are amazing.
Wow, I would love to hear more about that sometime. I'm chatting with Paul today on my channel at 3pm EST. He spent 6 years in the DR and I believe thinks similarly about big donors. Sometime maybe the 3 of us can do a livestream to discuss all these overseas/poverty related issues. Thank you for your important work!
What a great conversation! Thanks for being open and random and thoughtful and sometimes hilarious. I have been following both of you and it is nice to see you getting together. Hope to see more!
It is such a delightful lived experience to eavesdrop on a real conversation between two new-found friends (read brothers), both of which I count as new-found friends, because the conversational tone is rich in candor and infused with love of truth. Jesus' prayer in John 17:20-23 will be answered yet. BTW, it just struck me that perhaps the centrality of the resurrection can be summed up in JBP's own words. The resurrection accounts for everything of the previous theory (read lived experience), plus the anomalies (read descent into chaos), resulting in progress (read rebirth into a new creation).
Antiochian churches in the UK are doing great work too. Our small (but growing rapidly) parish does all services in English and our priest is actually a former church of England priest so is great at leading people from that worldview into an Orthodox one. Loved this conversation, thank you both.
Mr Pageau! My girlfriend is Ukrainian and she is Ukrainian orthodox. I attended church with her a couple of times. Since you converted to orthodox Christianity I wanted to ask whether you have any recommendations (especially books) that could help me understand her Christian tradition better. Thank you for your insightful content!
Just finished JP/RB podcast, great stuff!! Can't wait to get into this one with Jonathan/Paul. My cable television subscription is sad and lonely like a rejected Valentine :)
Wow! Shudder! I just added a like and was number 666. I need prayers alright! This discussion was so good. I sometimes think there is a real advantage of being a convert. Jonathon your knowledge and understanding of our faith is so strong. I am a parishioner of the Russian Orthodox Church in Melbourne which JBP just visited. Jordan Peterson, I think is a messenger to the broader world because of his intuition about meaning in life. This has to be God sent imo. I only recently found out about you and will look forward to following more of your sharings. God Bless. Ps not all RO stand through all the those long Lenten services. Some of us actually do sit down. 'We are lesser sons of greater men'. In Christ, Mary
I loved this so much: two men of different faiths finding such unity. I follow Jordon as well and I am Roman Catholic. Your discussion illuminated a path I begin in the next few days. I am leaving to travel across Canada and will map out a pilgrimage to churches, retreat houses and abbeys. I follow Peterson as well and will see him in Seattle. I to believe he is prophetic. I would like t attend both of your churches though the USA is not part of my plan for the first phase. Johnathan do you mind mentioning your church. I am assuming you are in
...."But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the Lord Almighty. Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel. "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse." Malachi 4:6 Christian here in England. Have been listening to JBP for some time. Thank you for your observations. Have been praying for men across the world for some time. For the Father to pour out His Holy Spirit and fill men to all the fulness of His love, for them to take their rightful place in His Kingdom, fulfilling His purposes in this generation.
Great conversation guys, some insightful nuggets in there too. I specifically like this bit about the flat earth and the globe. Never thought of it that way before. Really flushed out that idea.
This was interesting. Two nice guys, both Christian, but from very different traditions in Christianity. Especially when you talked about liturgy, it was very clear how different the traditions are. Thanks for this conversation.
Great conversation to hear, especially the slaughters from you Paul and the bigger, bigger smiles from Jonathan. That's enviable, loving Jesus followers are; David and Jonathan in the Bible. PTL!!!
Oops I touched the blue arrow by mistake. Names of both of your churches would be appreciated and I will figure out how to get there. I am 70 and my life is still evolving. Thank you for your contribution. Blessings
Inspiring chat! This is the shape of things to come. Togeather you are more than the sum of both your parts. I see the church of the future. Maybe the fragmented sects of Christianity all have a valuable voice and if working togeather could create something resembling a whole body...perhaps the Body of Christ.
59:46. JP: "It's hard to know exactly how all of this is going to go, but for sure it's an exciting time to kind of... be alive! and to be able to talk to people."
WOW GRAT CONVERSATION. 2 of my favorite youtubers! Hey jonathan have you heard of Final Fantasy 7? and also, why nazis dressed in black(and skulls) if they represented order?
Prompted by Jonathan I have prepared a lesson for my senior philosophy students (16-18 year olds) getting them to explore the idea that they actually live on a flat earth within basically a Biblical cosmology. If it was suddenly announced that our understanding of the universe was radically incorrect and a different model was now to be taught it would make not a scrap of difference to anyone. OK the physics students would have to learn some new answers to their exam questions; but the rest of us ... ?
best anime crossover it's kinda sad that we only have greek and russian orthodox churches in switzerland as far as a i know they speak in that language....well, i always wanted to learn russian lol
30:06 when Jonathan talked about African geometric patterns and how their order can convey different meanings, it reminded me about the Hebrew Alphabet. Each symbol in the alphabet has a meaning in itself and can produce different thoughts depending on their patterns.
You guys brought up C.S. Lewis in this conversation. I've been dying to hear someone (Preferably Peterson or Pageau or Paglia) to discuss Michael Ward's treatment of the medieval world view and symbology of Lewis's work. The book is called Planet Narnia.
You both are on a wonderful journey in trying to carve out greater meaning and understanding within your faith and worldview. You may both want to reach out to Bernardo Kastrup , a Physicist who has some fascinating takes on both our state of physical reality and the use of allegory as a tether to the transcendent.
It wouldn't hurt the North American evangelical churches to bring back some of the sacred reference that the orthodox churches have preserved. Why not have a sanctuary where you lower your voices and cover your heads, because you came to be together in the presence of the Almighty. I always felt that the sanctuary and the fellowship areas ought to be sharply separated areas. Both is required, but by trivializing church services to a little entertaining get together we've not taught our children to be still before God and to bow before his Holiness." No wonder they leave the churches in droves when other better "entertainment " comes along.
If you told me a few years ago I was going to watch hundreds of hours of a professor talking about the Bible, then watch a pastor discuss every sentence of what that professor says, and then watch an icon carver explain it all to me, I would explode in laughter.
Jonathan and Paul are practitioners. In their day-jobs they are miners cutting away at the coal-face of meaning. That's why their content is so fascinating.
Interesting, what you said about the African Koba patterns sounds like the carvings of the "groove ware people" who were the pre-celts who are believed to have made Stone Henge.
