Jordan Peterson's STUNNING Ideas On SCIENCE vs RELIGION Debate 

Jordan Peterson & Ben Shapiro DEBATE: Christianity vs Judaism (and the difference between them) - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-k-RagAyRG8w.html

May God continue to bless Jordan Peterson with a closer walk in Christ.

This gave me equal tears of joy and pain. I wish my father was still around to listen to and discuss this man's thoughts, with his son.

Science and religion being pitted against each other like this is one of the dumbest rivalries in history. It's a battle between people who don't actually know science or religion. People who think like this are proof they use science or religion for selfish and stubborn reasons only.

Science and religion are two sides of the same coin: they are both the search for truth. One is the search for "how", the other the search for "why". You need the best of both to understand things fully.

Dr. Petersen often refers to the difficulty in identifying a direction when you suddenly realize you don’t know who or where you are…that is an understatement! That’s been my experience for over two years so far. So appreciate that he shares so it can be heard. Thankful for his return to health and his family.

I marvel when someone claiming to be a scientist tries to apply the physical sciences to the spiritual, and then go on to claim absence of proof as proof of absence. Some scientists today are the Sadducees of yesterday. Truly astonishing.

Religion is a discipline of the Spirit but religion is not the spirit

In the dark ages when I was studying at the University I took a statistics class and the math department and in my psychology program. Both professors were wise and began the class with the same line "give me a statistical study and I can make the numbers say whatever I want them to say". People would be wise to understand that when they take statistical analysis is hard fact.

This is a really well thought out and very refreshing presentation of ideas. I live my life very much in the union between science and religion - my career and my personal beliefs and I find that the age old debate between science versus religion is very tedious and unimaginative. Thanks for such a refreshing expression of your ideas.

Science and religion aren’t enemies. Understanding how the creation works does not answer the question of why. It simply tells us how.

Smart man, one of the smartest in the world. It would benefit everyone if they shut their mouths, open their ears, and listen.

A pursuer of truth and reason in a bewildering world is Dr Jordan Peterson.

I just found out about Jordan Peterson through Joe Rogan a few weeks ago (yea I must be living under a rock) and he opens my mind to new positive levels. God Bless him!!!

"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." - Robert Jastrow

The better way to deal with confusion is to just accept that you don't know very much, in my experience.

Couldn't help it, watching this one again. It's like listening to myself think. You are so inside my head it's crazy. This stuff is Wonderful. I don't get to talk much to friends about philosophy, it goes over their heads or upsets them. 😔 It makes a Philosophical heart very lonely, when it knows the truth and no one wants to hear it. Thank you for having the GIANT cajones to put your voice, online, to put it up for scrutiny and face your critics and then even further to push them back, you are a Spiritual Warrior bro. God Bless and God Speed.

The way the struggle between science and religion as it's been traditionally been conceptualized in popular culture is itself a part of an outdated quasi-scientific narrative which Jordan here says we'll hopefully move on from and I really hope that we do because if we turn that narrative's critical eye towards itself it's no different from what it criticizes. There is a more scientific way to view these things and which actually would allow us to get even started at solving the underlying issues. That more rational way is what Jordan is outlining here.

God is not against science but vehemently against arrogant deceitful liars.🙏

this is how i feel about English classes. its write a big nothing burger and hit the minimum word count or else, it doesnt matter about density of information only that its inflated. this system is whats rewarding journalists to just write down a bunch of garbage and there just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

When I worked at a government lab in NJ, as someone with MS degrees in math and statistics, I was shocked at the attitudes of the management, some scientists, and the majority of the engineers in regard to statistical practice and planning for testing security systems. Some examples were: using incorrect methods given the data and objectives, collecting data before having a complete study or test plan, seeing.clustered data as a simple random sample (thereby underestimating standard errors and error bounds), using continuous response models on binary response data, and applying adaptive sampling on a critical mission. When these errors in reasoning and practice were pointed out, the response was to aggressively go after the credibility of the messenger, blame shift, rewrite narratives, go to alternative sources, triangulate employees against each other, and use shame based punishment strategies such as demotion and negative performance reviews. So, it went from errors in reasoning and a Duning-Kruger state to a full-blown toxic and narcissistic work environment. The pressures to publish and / or satisfy project deadlines, career advancement, grandiosity and the non-acknowledgement of technical limitations in training the need to be viewed as an expert by peers, the need to control subordinates, and the need to defeat those viewed as competition or career threats are all drivers of the misuse of statistical science in both reasoning and practice The "sexiness" and certifiability of statistical language, the ease of use of statistical software, and the belief that the internet sources can keep the trained statistician out of the loop are confounding conditions. In my experience, this hurt the mission and employees. Months of resources were wasted by poor management and lack of good practice and quality standards. And yet, the guys who were wrong were rewarded.

I have a math degree and I go to church every week. I think of science as an attempt to answer the how questions and religion as the attempt to answer the why questions. Scientific thought has made tremendous strides over the centuries, while religious thought hasn't changed all that much. For that reason, the problems with religion are obvious but the problems with science are more subtle. I think the biggest problem with science is it CANNOT tell us what's good and what's evil. It makes no distinction. That may not sound like a problem but it is. Science is a necessary but not sufficient condition for human prosperity. We need science, but we need more than that.

Science deals with facts, not truth. They are not the same. Science can only address that which can be measured. "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that is counted counts." Einstein.

Stress is uncertainty, and anxiety is confusion. When you realize this, not only does it make sense, but you have some idea of what to do about it. They are both an excess of chaos, but the type of chaos is important

Science and religion can’t even compete with each other because they are different things. This is like saying art can’t beat science.

One might find it interesting that at one time science & religion were the same.

The intellectual and beautiful lecture on science and God could not have been spoken more eloquently than the truthful words expressed by Jordan. It is all intertwined. Thank you, Jordan. ❤️✝️❤️🥰

I typically admire and sometimes agree with his newfound beliefs. But this time I have to disagree. Scientifically speaking, science is continually winning over religion as it eliminates things we once believed were of "god(s)", but we now have an empirical understanding of, instead, because of scientific discovery.

"Science" will not win over religion, but neither will religion win, because nobody performs "Science" anymore if it contradicts daily Twitter opinions. Providing grant money for favorable studies to a political position was one of the worst ideas administration's were allowed to get away with.

Get your hopes up. Start expecting God’s favor; start believing for the unusual. God wants to make you an example of His goodness. He’s already set in motion something better than you can imagine. You can’t see it yet, but that doesn’t mean it’s not in route. Keep believing, talking like it’s on the way. Keep doing the right thing. You’re going to see God exceed your expectations.

There can be no science without God and no God without science.

G K Chesterton said something like this about miracles. Believers look at the evidence and decide on the basis of evidence whether a miracle has occurred. Atheists don’t need to look at the evidence because THEY BELIEVE miracles are impossible.

Much of science is a religion for many people, but when both are truly understood they don't contradict one another at all.

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding in the comments, so I would like to try and break down the contents of this video for those interested. Feel free to share your thoughts, correct my interpretation, or engage in respectful dialogue by commenting below. The primary thesis is that religion is still "in control of" science, and it will probably stay that way (for however long, who knows). However; Peterson's use of the word "religion" does not imply belief in the proposition that God exists, and is not the "foolish belief in outdated propositional quasi-scientific hypotheses" as he states in the video. It also does not imply belief or faith in any specific religious doctrine (Religion is further defined below). Religion is a combination of the personal and collective narratives and mythologies that guide our thinking and behavior. At the 2:00 mark, he provides an example regarding how statistics is used in the social sciences, and Peterson uses this example to support his thesis by showing that even this important scientific tool is still ruled by "religion" or rather, the dominant myths and ideologies (our narratives, in other words) that govern us which are responsible for a lot of "replication" (the repeat of specific studies) in modern research. Again, religion here is the narratives that we conform too that are our sources of cognitive biases and so on that lead us to interpret statistical data one way over the other (as there is not scientifically defined "perfect" way to interpret statistical data). At the 3:30 mark, he supports his thesis further by defining "religion" as the narrative structures we perceive life through, and claims that "we cannot frame our perceptions outside a narrative structure, and there are no narrative structures without value", and he then he claims that narrative is united by an "ethical structure" (largely formed by collective narratives and societal meta religion, I add) and that no one likes nor wants "internal ethical disunity" which is what results if there is no "religion" (even scientific religion, again, no implication of the "God proposition"). Internal ethical disunity is what happens when someone doesn't know how to live, what to do, how to be, etc. It's a life of uncertainty and confusion with no purpose or meaning. It's despair and no-one wants it. At the 5:00 mark, this same point is emphasized with another example about marriage and he explains why infidelity hurts so much; because it disrupts you at a "deep and profound" level, which is also the definition of "religious"; deep and profound in the sense that your core or most fundamental beliefs that make up your narrative are disrupted. That's your religion as it is made up of those core beliefs which he defines as the beliefs that all other beliefs rely on. At 6:00, he simply says that we are only propositional in our thinking but not always in our actions. We watch movies that are purely fictional but enjoy them because they appeal to our liking and innate desire for narrative. So that's just another piece of evidence that we need narrative. At 7:00; he exclaims that we use narrative to teach children for this reason. He wraps up by saying we communicate in narratives because we think in narratives. Again; it's more evidence that we instinctively crave/need narrative (which is religion!). Ultimately, "religion" is the binding narrative and/or "mythology" that guides our ethics and purpose at the micro (individual) and macro (societal) level. It doesn't imply belief in the God proposition or faith in any specific religious doctrine, but it does imply that we think in narratives that help us form solid ethical compasses to live life with a sense of internal unity; otherwise, without this structure that we seemingly need, we would be confused, lost, and living in despair. Thus each of us is in some way "religious", living and conforming to a set of beliefs, many of which are meta and shared with others in our communities and some which are personal, and these religions will continue to govern the decisions we make in science using the Scientific method, scientific tools, and state of the art technology no matter how advanced they become. In this way, "religion" conquers science, but that doesn't mean that science "loses". It just means that we need to be more responsible and conscientious regarding how we organize our religions. Thanks for reading, and if you disagree with my interpretation or any part of it, please respectfully post your thoughts below with as much support as you see fit. Looking forward.

Science and religion answer different question they are not at odds. Science seeks the answers the question of how and religion answers the question of why. Today's education system is an embarrassment to the human experience and an insult to logic.

Viewing the enjoyment of narrative as a fundamental instinct of human cognition is quite profound. Simple put- the human mind thinks in narratives.

JP (like Jung) never managed to overcome his religious indoctrination. This was made perfectly clear in his interview with Stephen Fry.

"When science finally peers over the crest of the mountain, it will find that religion has been sitting there all along." -Dr Harry Wolper

I am 39, since 6 months…1 year, i am not an atheist anymore. I love science, study universe, black holes, quantum physic, what is time, what is all. More i study more i am confuse, more i say what the fuck is that. There is something there, i can’t see the full picture but there is something there.

Science is our discovering of God’s perfection in making the order of this world ,and making this perfect design and structure of the universe, by using the tools and blessings He Almighty had given us, that is, mind,heart, senses, the ability to think,write, observe, speak, declare. We can feel and realize his 99 names, in our journey to discover.

I agree with him on everything else except his stance on religion. I was a Christian for most of my life, taught it by my parents. I was told the entire universe was made in 7 days. Until I took a class about astronomy and learned the truth according to science. And it was the best thing that happened to me. Ever since then I’ve been into science and scientific discoveries for the better part of a decade now.

Man I always knew Jordon Peterson was smart but I didn't know he is on a completely different level.

Augustine said, "love God and do what you want". When we truly love God with all our heart, mind, and strength, we become oriented toward the good in all areas our lives and our hearts and minds become integrated with our actions.

The myth of the incompatibility between Faith and Science exists mainly because we are bad in history. That is why a tryied to make short videos to get that right: It was during the middle ages that Europe has become the world leader in science and technology (thanks to the great universities as Paris, Oxford or Padua) founded and staffed by religious people. In that time, the manuscript production in Europe were many times superior of the one of great civilization as China for example. See these data in the Epic video "Age of Reason" in 6 mn in my channel.

I really like the way how Jordan Peterson defines Religion. It is very similar to the concept of Dharma in Indian culture. Dharma is translated as Religion. But Dharma is more about Moral Integrity and a way of life rather than God and worshipping.

Love your work brothers/sisters. God bless :)

There should be no competition between science and religion, I think. Both are important.

Perhaps 200,000 years ago, some smart caveman picked up a shaft. He attached a point to its end. With this new spear he could kill his lunch. Better yet, with enough of them, he could slaughter large numbers of enemies. Fast forward two hundred millenia. A different caveman (a scientist, Praised be They), made a different shaft, (an ICBM), and attached a different point (a nuclear warhead). With this new type of "spear", tens of millions could be incinerated. Conclusion: human nature never improves. But maybe it can be Redeemed.

Namaste 🙏 👋 thankyou God bless all beings

Well said, personally relevant and sadly true

You have found the best of the best, thank you and thank JBP!

Well... professor Peterson kinda gets away with this argument. If you rely on statistics to "represent" the scientific discovery and advance, good luck. They are just an auxiliary method, a shortcut that mathematicians and physicists like to use now and then on their way to solving problems, but by no means should you try and explain the universe through it. Statistics can be wrong. They are just a prediction.

science and religion are not at odds.

2:52 Being a genuine scientist that searches for truth automatically makes me religious - and the only way for me to object this classification is ostensibly to define religion as "the foolish belief in outdated, quasi-scientific hypotheses", instead? I for one disagree with both propositions. I can respect religion, while not being religious myself. Religion does neither hold a patent on the idea of wanting things to be better (2:55), nor on depths and profoundness (5:56). The very notion seems outragously discriminatory towards non-belivers (agnostics and atheists alike). Not caring for/believing in god does neither imply worshiping the devil, nor being a shallow, unethical creature. Constructing such a dichotomy appears rather foolish and chauvinistic. The standing and well-established definition (according to e.g. the oxford dictionary) of religion is "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods". Simply redefining religion by saying that being religious has nothing to do with beliving in god (6:00) is a childish game. Everyone can become everything just through the redefinition of well-established definitions. The problem with such redefinitions is that talking to each other does not make sense anymore because we lose any comprehension.

Science and Religion can be equated to swimming. Science is how we swim, Religion is why we swim.

If you're desire is to win the argument, it helps to polarize everything into binary opposites: black and white, good and bad etc. Jordan asks, " is the scientific enterprise going to win out over the religious enterprise?" He then answers himself " no " and adds " all the decisions about how to handle your data, those are religious decisions " then equating anything other than a religious approach as something in which you're only going to " let your venal ambition and your malevolent competition and your desire to dominate be the determining factor in your application of statistical process, or are you going to be imbued with the spirit of truth? Then adding " a genuine scientist is a religious scientist, because they want things to be better. " I am sorry, but this is cloaking dogma in scientific terms while presenting " genuine science " as religious dogma. This is some serious B.S.

This is a great explanation of why our politics is so screwed up. Everybody just does a mindless search on the topic they want to talk about, grabs a "scientific" study with an abstract that supports what they want to say (because the abstract is all they ever read), and says "See, I'm right! The Science says so!" We've installed the social sciences as the foundation of our political structures, and they're 70% mush.

3:15. So it is JP's contention that religion is scientifically based. Noah's ark is scientifically based? The sun stopped in the sky for 24 hours? Miracles---how numerous?

AFAIK, society become more secular, and even more atheistic only when 3 conditions are all met: - Freedom of Religion - Presence of Welfare State - Highly educated society Lack of anything from those 3 won't tilted society from religiosity.

I learned to forgive infidelity. And to learn it, I had to first learn to listen to the Holy Spirit in my mind. Religion means experience, and I absolutely needed a religious experience to find a way out of that pain. A Course in Miracles saved my soul.

I left my career 8 years ago. I was stuck between my virtues and why I purchased this business in 1989. During a recession. I do things against the grain. Sometimes was I foolish, of course. Growing pains. But what made me decide to close the doors was the demeanour of my clients. They really got ugly. The media, tv shows, vendors and so on changed my clients into " know it alls". Damn, I was the one who worked night and day at my profession. I was excellent at it because I had over a 1000 written praises, thank you notes and pictures to boot. Being creative in a career is like painting pictures...not everyone is going to like your style. But peoples hearts were getting too dark for my light.

I am not sure what the world record for talking nonsense is,but Jordan must be getting close by now.

"Something has to unite the ethical structure. And you might say, well, why?" Because the alternative is postmodernism replacing ethics.

God is the ultimate scientist

When you gain insight into anything , do not take that information and pass it on to another as if they have the full understanding of the information that you are trying to convey and demonstrate . Because them and you are at different levels of awareness of the information at hand . So what I am saying is see the whole process through collecting and presenting it . The truth of the matter was given to you and not those who are working alongside you !

Getting closer to the Truth. There is only Christ in the end.

JP is coming closer 2 the truth of Jesus Christ. May GOD guide u 2 his light

Any studies you take or any research that you wish to conduct about the human and the universe existence. You can never explain the exact answer or reasons why we human and the universe existed. Whether we like it or not. Whether we believe it or not. There is really a superior being that created everything. I always believe in God. I have faith in Him. I may not encounter personally/physically the God who created everything. But I trust His words. God bless everyone. ❤❤❤

Science and Religion are completely two different things. I've spent years talking with atheists especially the hardcore reddit kind. Spoilers, they lack understanding in a lot of things and they're the Lord's of psudeointellectualism is comedic rather. But the point is. It was never about the debunking of God or God's or the belief of anything but it's the projection of control. They want to be in control.

Here we go again. I agree with what Peterson is saying here about scientists‘ bias and the replication crisis. But by choosing to frame this as religion, he’s once again redefining words, confusing the rationalists with ambiguity and inadvertently propping up religious people who take his claim that science will never overcome religion out of context - and, even worse, take it literally.

Thank you this is genuinely the most concise well thought out response to this problem that I have ever heard. very helpfull I've been grappling with this.

I was a fan of Peterson but he is gradually getting weirder. I fear for his sanity.

As Dr. Frank Turek says you can't do science without philosophy and vice versa.

Science always beats religion. Some religious people are just too delusional to admit it. Note how the making and observing of this video has been made possible by technology, the useful result of science, not religion. Think of all the devices we use in our lives. None of them were invented through religion. All were invented through science. There is no real evidence for a god(s). If you're thinking about arguing about any of this, perhaps instead, you should consult a competent psychologist. Jordan: I have learned much from many of your videos. I have tremendous respect for your intellect. But I think you need to start accepting what your intellect should be telling you about your unrealistic beliefs.

Religion doesn't have facts, it has beliefs that fools think are facts.

God bought me back to my feet when DOCTORS couldn't, Hallelujah! LIFE

Every week there is literature from scientists with a new explanation for an old problem...The words I always take away from their conclusions are...theorize, estimate, speculate....If you were having a heart transplant operation, would you want a surgeon who was going to theorize and speculate his way through the procedure?.....I've never understood the conflict between real science and faith...In my view, science is simply the language that God has provided for us to understand his creation

Science will always supersede religion.

'Religion' is what non-believers call it.

Science has already won!

Амин! (BG) . Science is good but cant go without religion. God bless!

Mr. Peterson. Most all my adult life along the way of filing away and fitting the pages of experienced, learned and discovered always curious to learn and looking for answers. Especially around origins and existence, etc. Along the way there were more questions in what I sought than answers and so many fascinating facts/conclusions that didn't answer, stand alone or fit any equation but still fascinating, filing them away under w/u (worthless/useless info - at the time). Sometimes opening the drawer to file yet one more others would jump out to join the one in hand winning a new drawer. (grammar/formal English, no interest, apologies in respect Professor..) Sir. The more I listen to you thoughts the brighter my w/u beams when i open it questioning, looking for answers. For the 1st time I can see the entire cabinet as glass one day in the same hope that the Light, when reached, contains all that ever was will be and join. (Tesla, DaVinci free boarding the Light, may catch a wave with them, Albert too!) Especially involving Spirit, GOD, The Bible, Religions and being. I am literally eternally greatful to and for you goodSir. -c. *side note in finishing .. quite an oddity. stun'numbed me actually, then couldn't help but laugh in the irony. When i scrolled to click 'comment' four letters must have gotten cut off when in mid 'I sincerely ..', writing something else and left at the bottom of my comment/post. I haven't touched them, just hit enter twice and started typing, Yes, I am aware. Every day i am live flesh. imho- forgiven before you knew it is sin (you deny it, your gut told you when your butt puckered and heart pounded), no excuse once you do. >>> or coincidence ? .. life is but a 'toon. shbOOm, shbOOm. I sin

Why pit religion and science against each other?

People are so funny. The proof of God’s existence is us! Period. We are like kids playing with the building blocks of Universe including our mind all life and only in the end of it understand that we understand nothing.

We need to come to the realisation that Science and Religion are in harmony. That without Religion, Science can become unethical and dangerous, while without Science, Religion tends to express Superstation imagination and fantasy.

"If there is a God, He will have to beg my forgiveness." - Quote carved on the wall of a concentration camp by Jewish prisoner during WWII

I appreciate that Jordan Peterson acknowledges that it's impossible to do true science without some faith. He starts with a good point that in order for their to be objective value of anything, there must be a mind giving that thing or person value. However, when he says that something must "unite our ethical structure" i.e. create a system of morals and ethics... then explain the reason why is because we will be confused and that will lead to stress and anxiety, that's a weak argument that can easily be disproven. There are many people who live a lie and are quite comfortable fooling others, and perhaps fooling themselves. However, If we are "true scientist", then we must surrender to the truth. And I think this is what every "ashiest" scientist refuses to do. Instead, they are willing to reinterpret truth, so that it can be subjective or relative; and so it can be susceptible to personal choice. Or, create a theory of an alternative reality that will allow them to avoid the truth altogether - (e.g. multiverse theory etc.)

It is a pity to see great minds go down the religious rabbit hole .. a true shame

Amazing what a soundtrack will do. A prime example of a "feels over reals" video.

Oh. I think I got it. The actual existence of God is unimportant or beside the point because, for sure, narrative is important and God is the best, most satisfying narrative.

Wherever in this video JP says 'religion', try substituting ' Deep and profound Christian moral values'.

Faith and Reason. Religion and Science. They work together, not opposed.

I wish Id known you when I was young. Its too late for me now, but I listen to your wisdom, and pass it on to my grandchildren. Thank you.

It's all getting a bit Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance..

Im agnostic but this is on so much of a deeper level of how and why we think than your typical believe or burn attitude from religion. I can buy that parables and religious stories have merit to human pysche

Jesus is the way, the truth, the life. God bless you Jordan.

Once a man was talking to God, and he told God, we do not need you for nothing, we can do every thing now. The man then told God, we can even create a Man. God smiled, and told him, OK, what's next. The man told God I am going to create a man now, and reached down to get some dirt, but God said, hold on there, get your own dirt.

Indeed. That is why they call it 'blind faith'.

So therein is the problem. Science and religion are not at odds. All truth will be consistent across domains. The fact that the Bible says that all of nature will point towards the existence and power of God. What we find in the social sciences is that religion has a positive effective on well being. What we find in the natural and physical sciences is that the entire universe was created and that the cause must exist outside of our reality.

I am a religious scientist! I am currently building an ark in my backyard with the help of a chimp, who is the proof that we don’t originate from them… since he is having troubles with using electric drills. Thank God us religious scientists will be the first to discover that earth is few thousands years old.