Joseph Smith's First Vision (Pt 2)-Dan Vogel 

Keep it up.does dan also pount out the faults in other relgious histories like the jews and baptists and adventists etc

@@CyrusmagiDon't think he is, or is required to, muddy the already nasty waters with that at present. Don't worry about them; their own are already addressing them. Don't try to lead the discussion down a pig trail.

Because to do so would be to concede that Joseph Smith was lying about his first vision. If Jesus Christ and His Father appeared to you in 2021, you will never forget the year such a momentous event occurred. For example, every American old enough can tell you with their hands tied behind their backs that Al-Qaeda attacked the United States on September 11, 2001

@@kevinevans8892 Yes. And I would be one of those Americans. It seems to me that Mormons have more than a significant problem with the First Vision. There's no way for them out of the problem

trueedge:. A.G.E.N.D A. must support agenda. Which ultimately supports $$$$___$$$$$$_$$_$$$$$$$$

Probably correct but so what!

True. Also, 1820ish would have still been in the “Little Ice Age” where the temps would have been lower than normal for north eastern US.

Google ''Answering the CES Letter You Tube'' Click on the video ''Answering the CES Letter 22 to 23 First Vision PART 2''. Notice that from the 8:18 to the 8:30 min mark of that video that they show proof of the revivals in Palmyra in 1820. Dan Vogel is saying on his above videos that there were no revivals in Palmyra NY in 1820, is he not?

How are you going to ever know that your only going to live a few decades

+Richard Holmes .... The "Answering the CES Letter" has been DEBUNKED!. Dan Vogel has done the research properly and presents how it actually happened.

Ya can thank him personally in Hell.

You have no authority to condemn someone to hell. Shut the f**k up.

@@thepreacher5934 Have you had the blood levels of the psychotropics checked recently Pastor? I wonder how Rusty Nelson feels about your "ministering" tactics?

But his standards Joey standards as well as his understanding about religion or even how to understand our prey is way way far from the light

ChristinaO:. It's RELIGION itself that is problem. Throughout OT GOD declares that all such distinctions will be done away, BY HIM. Because men try to appropriate God as a possession to obtain & exercise personal power over others. The Beginning End (objective) is an INDIVIDUAL, PERSONAL relationship between each created soul & the CREATOR OF ALL SOULS. Mankind has to finally get this. Another 4+half billion years, maybe,?

Buy a new computer 😀

Yes, I have always thought that Lucy joined the Presbyterian Church after Alvin died. So that puts the first vision somewhere around 1824 if the revival story of Smith is to fit into the story. It just seems odd to me that the most important event in Joseph Smith's life has so much wrong with it. The time period, the 1832 handwritten account by Smith himself being so much different than the 1838 official version and then the other two versions of the first vision that are different (I realize there are many versions, but there are four different versions that are significant to me). It just seems to me, that if I had seen God the Father and that God the Father introduced his Son, Jesus Christ to me and there were two different personages, I would never tell that story any differently. The fact that the date is wrong is troublesome, but does not bother me nearly as much as the confusion of the most important detail of the vision - that both God the Father and Jesus Christ were present in the vision as separate beings. The more I study the subject, the more I feel the story was changed to fit the evolving view of the Godhead. It is very clear that Joseph Smith still believe in the one God of the bible when the Book of Mormon was produced. The Book of Mormon is very much like the bible - almost too much like it. It is very clear to me that the Book of Mormon mirrors the bible that there is but one God. After the Book of Mormon was published and the Church was organized, Joseph Smith's belief changed regarding God. Smith changed his belief from one God to separate personages for God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Hence the 1838 official version of the first vision was changed from the 1832 version to support this changing view of God. I have read many apologist arguments on this subject and to date, I have not found anything that really explains the 1832 version of the first vision leaving out the two personages, which is significant when considering the official 1838 version of the story that is taught in Sunday School.

@@srreiley769 well i am far from been a perfect or completly open person about all my life and i doubt you are or wd be but your expecting Joseph Smith to do everything in some sort of precise order. He did his best no doubt , and remember he had a great deal of opposition and no doubt various stresses and harrassment to cope with and i doubt anyone even including you would have coped any better. There is no one in this life who can do all things .The legacy of joseph smith is marvellous like the legacy of many great women and men and if your like me you have doubts but one thing for sure the church of jesus christ of latter day saints is one of the great and sucessful religions of the world achieving more than many in doing good.

Which of any church have you had a personal witness of the lord himselve and of the father too via the spirt of the holy Ghost this is what you should ask yourself if you have stop debating the whys and wherefores and get on with your spirtual life if you have not got this witness unto your self seek it else you will be debating forever and get nowhere special.

+Anthony Train ... The problem with Mormonism is they say they are the ONLY true church. Mormonism contains SOME of the truth but not all. Just like other denominations who also have a portion of the truth within their doctrines so does Mormonism. But it's a long draw of the bow to say they are exclusively the truth when plainly they are not.

I disagree. I think a lot of it is simply a lie.

If you watch my First Vision videos, I present evidence that something happened in 1820 that was probably like a born-again experience but that he changed it over time. I also argue that he added Jesus to the experience in 1832 so that he could claim to be an apostle. In his 1832 history, he also claimed Cowdery had seen the Lord, who showed him the plates, before they met in April 1829. Thus the two were apostles before the church was organized.

@@danvogel6802 . Thanks. Apparently he was working with the idea of the Gospel being lost and needing to be restored from very early on. One source says that Joseph's granddad predicted someone in his line would be the restorer.

This is normal human pattern and had always existed in human existence so yeah sounds like today's time but you can pick any time or era along human existence and it'll still be true. Mahalo 🤙🏽

No mormons do not fear anyone of Nordic blood lines in fact significant numbers of Norwegians and icelandic people were of the first converts to the church in the early 1800s emigrating to the USA probably some of your blood line.

They probably thought you were gay.

@@Cyrusmagi maybe a couple who were not robbed & murdered. The commenter is just relating his experience and occasion. A self-supporting anecdote. No more. No less

It is clearly shown on that You Tube video, DID you even see that video?

RE-READ.

''I used to feel sorry for you with the way people treat you, but now I see you demand they treat you that way.'' What people is that?

No, I don't skim across the surface. Skimming across the surface is what the bigoted anti-Mormons do.

+Richard Holmes ... Stop lying. You have skimmed over many points put to you in many other threads. Mormonism depends upon you skimming the surface because if you dig just a little under the surface and heed the truth then you will see that Mormonism contains only a portion of the truth like all other denominations except Mormonism claims to have THE exclusive truth and THE ONLY way back to God, thus LDS Mormonism is lying.

If you are going to take a shot at her, at least spell her name correctly.. It's Hillary not "hilary".

It's 'The Hilderbeast"

@@roberthodge5045 I stand corrected - Hitlary it is.

@@roberthodge5045 Just like the Mormon religion is being exposed for the fraudulent deception that it is, so are our "elite". Hillary is not just a liar, she is part of a lucifarian society that practices sexual ritual abuse of children, and human sacrifice. Now before you all.start thinking I'm a tinfoil hat wearing nutter know this. The Wikileaks emails had correspondence between her, the Podesta brothers, and others including Obama that talk about it all. But in the end they are all just sad little puppets to the people who are really in charge, who are calling the shots, do you think while Hillary was secretary of state it was her idea alone to invade the sovereign nation of Libya? To kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people to remove Kadafi, to destabilize that entire area causing more death. Famine. and a flood of refugees? No the truth is out there why so many had to be .murdered. The truth is out there about Bill and Hillary and how they started by trafficking cocaine via the CIA through little rock. How Bill is a serial rapist, and hillary his apologist, and enabler. Look up the lolita Express that Bill flew on to pedo island multiple times with his good buddy Jeffery Epstein who is now in jail for human trafficking, look up how many children went missing in the Hatti disaster, and the woman who.was exposing the Clinton foundation for trafficking said children and how she was murdered, look up the Clinton body count and tell me it's a coincidence. Dont look at mainstream media for your answers that's like going to Fair Mormon for answers. These people own the media. The CIA is the most corrupt organization to ever exist. Every was we have ever fought since WWI is a staged planned event that we were lied to by our government and media to Feed the war machine. So yes maybe let's not talk politics here, especially if you haven't opened your eyes to what's really going on in the world, and how truly evil it is. But before you start defending a murderous sociopath, and child trafficking puppet of the elite like The Clinton's Obama, and their ilk, please put in the same amount of research you're doing about the Mormon church. Have a great day.

@@roberthodge5045 HILARITY.

Did you learn anything?

It doesnt because it is NOT truth. I only stated that statement to show what Mormons (Moroni Christians) believe. They have added to the Bible and these Golden Plates, Moroni Christ and Second Revelation of Jesus Christ Book of Mormon is their doctrine NOT biblical truth.

Then you are a Moroni Christian or an Atheist.

@@MrPabloingles if your going to make critism of the mormon church dont do it with mumbojumbo

@Jeff Carlin but many learned and sincere greeks did so and their human just like you