The problem with due process is that it's literally whatever they say it is. It's the same stupid game as "cruel and unusual punishment", when they make cruelty common and then do as they please because it's not unusual.
@@kidwave1 Amen to that!... Governed by consent, not by executive order... Executive orders or any order without consent is a dictatorship (a form of slavery/communism) don’t be the slaves they want us to be.
@@kidwave1 Masks, vaccination and public health issues are explicitly covered in Jaccobson vs Massechusetts, 1905. I suggest you read up on it and how often it's been both cited/upheld in the last 115 years
Exactly, they didn't give away someone else's money. They gave their away own money. Imagine a court case, that money I owe you, I gave it someone else. That is convincing.
$70,000 is $17,000. It's meaningless to talk about "this" $17,000 or "that" $17,000. It's stupid for the police to say they "can't" pay this man's $17,000 because they don't have that "particular" $17,000 anymore. (It reminds me of the time Paddington Bear complained to the bank because he couldn't withdraw exactly the same £1 note he'd deposited six months before.)
In the UK even if it is the government the loser pays the winners legal costs. As I understand it there is a power in US courts to order your costs paid but is rarely used.
Every now and then you'll see a sheriff and his deputies put their hands on their revolvers after cops have refused an order by a judge about 50 times, and then the cops reluctantly do what they're told.
Judge could have ordered the city to pay the gentleman $17k out of city funds, and placed the burden on the police to get their money back from the feds.
I didn't make E5 in the Army for refusing to say honorable in front of a senators name. I was happy with that. Corrupt bastards should be in front of their names.
I just read somewhere that "civil asset forfeiture" brings more money than burglary last year!!! The government is making more money than the "criminals"!!
I remember this was happening with firearms in Louisiana after Katrina. Police would stop you and ask you if you have a gun in your car(its perfectly legal to have a gun in your car in Louisiana), they would then confiscate the gun and tell you to come pick it up at the station once you could prove it belonged to you. I know many of those firearms never went to the station, they went to the into that cops private collection.
I had a relative who had a rare, expensive shotgun that got seized under questionable circumstances. No one was ever convicted of any crime. He had lots of relatives in that area. He went to the sheriff’s department and told them if anyone was seen with that shotgun, they would die. Then mentioned that he had a few hundred relatives in the area that would be watching. The next day, his lost shotgun was found and returned to him. Sometimes small towns and innumerable relatives can work for you.
Had an FTA warrant arrest in Dothan, AL a few years ago while driving. Cop seized a handgun for safe keeping and told me where to pick it up from. The woman working the desk tells me I need the original receipt to get it back. I told her I didn't have it, and she tells me it's forfeited. Things got escalated, and one of the Sergeant's come out to see what the yelling was about. Before she had time to say anything, I asked him, "Hey, if I run a red light, and you discover a gun in the car, would you run the number to make sure it wasn't stolen?" Of course, he said yes, so I asked, "If the gun doesn't come back as stolen, do I need to show you a receipt before I leave the scene?" "No, that's stupid... why would you have to show a receipt?" Five minutes later, I walked out with my gun. She tried the "It was seized during an arrest and not a traffic stop.", but he asked her if it was used in the commission of any crimes, she said no, and he said "Then give it back."
I know people like this. They always have an excuse. In this case, the cops finding $17K cash. They conveniently can't imagine any legitimate reason (as if the limits of their imagination should be the basis for making law) why someone would be carrying that much cash. And it certainly isn't ever going to happen to THEM, therefore it is no problem.
I support a law that sentences the DEATH sentence for those that have implemented and executed this evil that has ruined so many lives. If that sounds crazy, then is it more crazy than the same people being held to ZERO accountability for ruining lives unconstitutionally?
This happened to me in Kentucky. I was driving through Kentucky and the police pulled me over without giving me a reason. I asked why, however, they just said "License, registration, and insurance, and I will tell you when I come back". When they came back, they told me I was driving on an expired license....However, that can not explain why I was stopped....and I knew that wasn't true, as I had no prior driving infractions or issues with my license. I was then placed into custody and my car was searched. I owned a business in Ohio and was driving through Kentucky into WV to my bank to make a deposit. (I lived in a Tri-State area and it was faster to cross a bridge into KY, then a couple miles to my bank in WV across another small bridge).... I had around $7,000.00 in a bank bag which was sitting on my passenger-side front seat and they asked me where it was from. I told them I was a business owner, the name and location of the business, provided my business card from my wallet, and stated I was headed to the bank to make a deposit. I also had my deposit folder under the bag that I would take with me to add my bank slips to, which I attached to my daily reports. They said it was suspicious that I would be driving with that amount of money, so I made a joke and said "I would think it is better to drive with it than walk it 10 miles away"... I was put in jail for a "suspended license" and since it was on a Sunday I had to wait until the next morning to see the judge. When I went before the judge, it was found that my license was perfectly fine and that it was not suspended...The police themselves provided that information and said it was an error on their part and apologized. However, I never could get my money back. This was back around 2002.
Either your lawyer was a shithead or you didn't have a lawyer. It's not too late. Get the meanest damned lawyer and go after them. Sue for the money AND lawyers costs and for mental anguish caused by the incident. If it doesn't hurt them, there is no reason for them to stop. I fear if it happened to me and they were just pigheaded about it, I'd go Rambo on their damned police station.
This why I call bs when people say the side of the road isn’t a place to argue your case, court is. We have seen countless times where local judges, DAs, and the coos are all buddies and could give a shi* less about you, me, or their own wife and kids. The gang is all that matters. I’ve seen way to many times where when case is lost they go to appeals court and win all while the currupt peace of shi* jusdge just keeps getting away with throwing his opinion out as law when the judge should be disbarred
Anything they confiscated as a result of that stop should have been returned. The stop and the results are invalid. The money was not illegal. Even illegal stuff should have been returned. *I am not a lawyer.* I studied Admin of Jus.
Problem is it would most likely play out like: "He did it." "But She told me to." You would probably end up getting the name of some low level clerk who actually did the sending but had no input into the decision to do so. Meanwhile, the person who ultimately ordered it probably put three degrees of separation in there for just this reason. They would take the 5th and whoever says, "He/She told me to do it." would be 1> Hearsay and 2> The next best suspect.
that's what I was thinking.... "someone's name is on that action, and that person should already be considered in contempt of court." I also wonder, did they "black hole" the check - send it somewhere in the government they know it won't be cashed? (maybe even to a department they know someone in that's going to sit on it and then "lose" it) Because then they get to say they don't have it anymore, AND they get to keep it anyway.
They routinely charge people with destruction of or tampering with evidence if the person has disposed or destroyed something before they were ever directly investigated or charged with a crime, if what they destroyed or disposed of was considered potential evidence after the fact. How the police handled the $17k in question here is really no different. So they are also guilty of tampering or disposing 9f evidence.
Absolutely! Once the PD knew the case was coming up, they had the responsibility to make the funds available for refund if so ordered by the court. That's not the time to give it away!
@@virt1one-- good point. Judge could order the police to post another $17k with the clerk of court, since it hid the subject matter of the action beyond the court's jurisdiction.
She is absolutely the exception, not the rule. Judges in our country almost never go to the bench out of law school. Defense attorneys either have a passion for helping people who wouldn’t stand a chance in our courtrooms or they were county or state attorneys caught doing the usual shady stuff that they all do and can never work for the government again. Basically, 99% of the supposed impartial, non-biased judges presiding over trials in America today were prosecutors beforehand and probably are responsible for thousands of man-years of incarceration time to innocent people. Freedom, liberty, innocent until proven guilty, justice is blind, they all look good etched in stone on the walls of federal buildings but it is just gaslighting and anyone who has been through the system knows this.
I'm sure she will be an example. They'll probably destroy her career as a warning to others ! She needs to get rid of all her red scarves and doorknobs !
"The attorney Consider this forfeiture acts as highway robbery" I'm pretty sure that the whole forfeiture system is the text book definition of highway robbery.
Spoiler: they will pay the victim back and get their $17k back from the Feds. Nobody will go to jail. They are just trying to pick low hanging fruit, and this one is no longer worth it.
@@dannymccarty344 Steve's been putting up videos on RU-vid for years already . . and he is a lawyer, so I'm pretty sure he'll be around as long as he wants to be.
Not the department, that is just tax payers. When government officials breach the law, and this case the constitution, they need to pay for it out of their personal assets.
If the city refuses to return the money, I would love to see the court seize city assets such as the police station and sell it at a Sheriff's sale to recoup this man's money.
@@finish_my_projects That would be great if it could be done legally but I suspect that could not be done. However, if the city had its police station sold the embarrassment it would cost the police department and the city would send a chill done the spines of municipal employees everywhere and maybe make them think twice prior to confiscating a person's money.
Remember the govt and especially the parts with badges and guns can actually be predators. In this example, two court hearings said to return the money and still not doing it.
@@Alverant ... Uh, why? Why would the judge _trying to put her foot down_ suddenly imply they have dirt?? The fact she's trying to flex is evidence _against_ such a stupid conspiracy theory.
Need to lock up the upper staff in the department until they turn over the cash.They rob people and there is no accountability.! Time for Qualified immunity to go protecting LE DAs along with some unethical judges
This case just illustrates how convoluted the legal theory of law enforcement has become. If I was to rob a bank and then give it to associate and use that as a defense I would probably be locked up in an insane asylum some where.
Like other, the older I get the less respect I have for law enforcement. This asset forfeiture, speed traps, planting evidence, skewing evidence to help the prosecution. Mis treatment of county prisoners. This actually hinders honest judges, who are constantly facing corrupt dishonest local sheriffs and police departments. The accused is no longer treated as an honorable citizens. Bad people are almost alway addicted by drugs or alcohol.
It's called "normalizing." Once an unjust action is executed several hundred or several thousand times, the general public will regard the action as normal. Over a period of time, people will be born into the phenomenon and will absolutely not question it as unjust. That is why agencies can literally rob someone on the street at gunpoint and have it deemed "civil asset forfeiture" instead of police malfeasance.
The only update to this story is the town filed an appeal, Stating "The Town of Mooresville is disappointed with the Court's recent decision in the Sanders case. We believe the seizure by our police department was lawfully executed and the funds rightfully turned over to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security at their directive, pursuant to established federal law. The Town did file an appeal yesterday, which by law stays enforcement of the order until the Court of Appeals reviews the merits of this case. The Town does not plan to further comment at this time while an active criminal case and this civil matter is ongoing." Coincidentally I hear tar and feather sales are up over 200% in the area.
In my oppinion it is tampering with evidence which is a crime. The judge would would likely need to bring in a Prosecuting Attorney from outside the town were the crime took place. The people on trial would be the same people who stole this person money in the 1st. place. Stealing is stealing I don't care if you were a unform, a badge and carry gun. You no difference then a guy who enter a Bank and take the Bank money by thread of force. This is my personal opinion.
moving money through the US mail via check like this could also be eligible for Wire Fraud. That's a fun one the feds love to use as a lever or to tack on additional charges to the rest of us.
@@virt1one It is mail fraud, but when the check clears the banking system electronically it is Wire fraud. Plus, the PD converted the cash into a banking instrument, so that is money laundering. DAs and US Attorneys charge criminal defendants every day with stacked charges. Oh, and PD & Feds were working together so that is conspiracy too.
It may depend on how the PD and Feds interacted. If the PD said to a Fed buddy, "here, hold this sack of cash", that's one thing. But if the PD tells the Feds "we found $17K in a car with out of State plates", the Feds might have replied, "crossing State lines is our jurisdiction, give us the money." It's still wrong, and the PD owes $17K + interest to the owner, and it's their problem getting reimbursed by the Feds.
Imagine if it becomes common to have actual jail time consequences on corrupt government official practices. Imagine if it becomes common for corrupt financial institution executives to wind up in jail.
@@bn880 Hopefully good people. Like those who took up arms too create said Nation. Way too many in power today rely on the government paycheck and protection. Pretty much Lords and serfs today.
I'm new to the channel but I'm really enjoying the content and your take on things. Thank you for the knowledge and entertainment. Keep up the good work!
As more liberal judges are appointed, I foresee that happening far less. Judges today believe that they have the right to create laws, via edicts, rather than interpret or enforce existing, legislatively-enacted laws. These people are more liberal, political operatives than unbiased judges - like they swore an oath to be.
@@waynegroves6922 doesn't matter if they're liberal or conservative, they usually rule in order to grow the police/nanny state. Torres v Madrid and Brownback v King are the next cases to watch; their arguments were made back in last Autumn and decisions are due as early as March
If the disposition of the money is lawfully subject to a court proceeding, how is sending that money out of reach not a slam dunk for criminal obstruction of justice?
Please keep doing videos like this one. This has to be overturned and police departments have to sued. This will or likely has caused some unnecessary violence. Great job on this video.
I hope she just lines up the Police Chief, Deputy Chief, whomever officer, City Attorney, Mayor, Councilfolks, and starts asking "did you bring your toothbrush", and sends them off to the slammer.
Steve, did you cover that under the federal equitable sharing program, up to 80% of the money turned over by state/local police is given back to the agency that seized it. That's how police get around local restrictions on CAF
"Haven't got it anymore..." Well, it doesn't matter that you don't have it, you took it. Whether you gave it away or went on a spending spree or whatever, you took it so you are responsible for returning it. (I'm not a lawyer nor did I take any law class.) Best return it with interest plus extras.
@@admthrawnuru but that's the taxpayers money, and for far too long the police have used OUR money to fund their failures... Take it from the police retirement fund
@@finish_my_projects...Let 'em make their excuses to the taxpayers. See if the public will excuse their thievery. They act on our behalf, with our power after all. .
@@jgcelliott1 no, they always get to act and see if they have consequences, usually zero... We need to out in AUTOMATIC consequences for their crimes, just like we are accountable for our actions... We should all be pushing to end the use of tax payer dollars to fund their mistakes, they can find their own mistakes and maybe they will start to police their own bad behavior when their precious retirement becomes threatened
@@finish_my_projects...Nah, whenever someone complains about the potholes, remind them where the money went. We are the ones who fund their pensions. .
Put the Sherriff in his own jail for starters. When the deadline comes and goes, throw the Mayor in the jail right beside him. Continue throwing officials in jail weekly until the debt is paid.
An update after some googling; the Sanders case is now in federal court and the court of appeals, with the city having filed an appeal which halts the judge's contempt order. Nobody has been jailed so far. Since then, Ashley Cannon, the attorney for Sanders, has taken up the case of two men who had money taken under similar circumstances. Having learned her lesson, Cannon made sure that their money is still kept in the city's coffers. Notably, the city of Mooresville has been able to keep about 40 000 a year for the last two years(2019 and 2020) under this scheme. So far this year they have collected 93 000, One of the things the Mooresville PD was able to treat itself with was a 15 000 system that shoots a GPS tracker from a police cruiser onto a vehicle being pursued.
I’m literally going through the same situation right now!! With Martinsburg police in West Virginia they took $6000 and my car from me in front my kids. No drugs at all, the case got drop in Oct. they took my stuff on May 25th and they missed the forfeiture court date but still won’t give it back 😡
6:48 "Can you imagine if that defense actually worked? 'Cause criminals could do that all day long." Yup, and they have. Local PD's have been running this switcheroo with the federal govt for years. The feds even made an entire "revenue sharing" program out of it.
They do it to cover up violent crimes, too. Look up Brownback v King. That really should have been a simple assault charge for those geniuses, instead the guy had to take it all the way to SCOTUS just to rule that he can sue.
And these kind of crazy cases that make me want judges that are not lawyers. The average person can look at that and immediately know this is unconstitutional and illogical on it's face. No complicated mental gymnastics, just simple justice.
@@admthrawnuru Considering how severely they beat him, I'd argue it should have been felonious assault. The bystanders who heeded his pleas to call the cops begged them to get there quickly, because they thought the out-of-uniform cops were muggers who were going to kill him. (And of course when the uniforms arrived, they forced people to delete videos "for the safety" of the "undercover" cops. All over mistaken identity, trying to pick up a guy who didn't resemble King at all - who allegedly stole some soda cans and liquor bottles from his ex-boss. America.)
I've been saying this for years - getting rid of asset forfeiture at the state level isn't enough. The states have to criminalize (note the word) the action of performing revenue sharing with the feds.
@@matthew9677 I don't know about "not lawyers", but the justice system desperately needs to deal with the massive conflicts of interest. Maybe we can work on that after we can even get the govt to DEAL EFFECTIVELY WITH A DEADLY PANDEMIC, like countries that took it seriously and have all-but-eliminated it within their borders. (Possibly would have eliminated it, if it weren't for the Americans bringing it back in every time they get it stamped out.)
The fact that they sent it to the feds indicates that there is not only consciousness of guilt, but they were pretty sure they would lose that case. Any time I get cash, it goes in an ATM or bank and is transferred to another account (I don't use my local bank for anything other than free notary, coin counter, ATM, and teller cash deposit). Stories like this make me sure that teaching cash is crazy. Civil asset forfeiture without a judge or charges is unconstitutional, regardless of what our corrupt SCOTUS says
This was a huge problem in Salem, MA in 1692. The majority of the Witchcraft Hysteria was because of Civil Asset Forfeiture. If you were convicted of witchcraft, the Sherriff got most of your property and holdings. Whomever accused you get some as well. Odd that after the first set of poor people were accused, most of the rest of those accused came from wealthy families or ones with land adjacent to their accuser.
That's one of the lesser known facts of the Salem witch trials; it had little to nothing to do with religious persecution, it was mostly people using schemes to seize other people's property either out of greed, spite, or both. (People could do an entire video about what most people don't know or incorrectly think they know about the Salem witch trials. People probably have.) A few other facts people don't usually know about the Salem trials, if you'll indulge in a quick off-topic list: Most of those accused were relatively wealthy, not poor. More men were accused than women. The church wasn't behind most of the accusations or trials; they in fact were mostly against the trials and arguing that people shouldn't be executed for witchcraft without much more solid proof than a mere accusation. Nobody convicted was burned at the stake; those executed were hanged.
@@troodon1096 I was a tour guide in Salem for 15 years. I have to point out a few issues. The Puritans were all in on the trials because of Cotton Mather a horrid minister (and founder of Yale). The Anglicans were against the trials and wanted more proof but they were barely tolerated by the Puritans. They led many of the trials in England before they got kicked out and sent to the Americas. It was brought to an end when they went too far and accused the Governors wife and maid. Many many poor people that the Puritans didn't want were rounded up and most died in jail because you had to pay for your time in jail.
yeah, but they KNEW the hearing was about to take place. They were under no obligation to give the money to the feds. looks like the town just donated $17,000 to the federal government.
Public Officials will continue with this corruption until it starts affecting their personal finances. Damages need to be extracted from their salaries, pensions and other benefits.
I'd like to know if, as claimed, the police were really "called out" to the hotel or did they just see a car with Connecticut plates and say "hmm, lookie what we got here."
And guess how it ended... With the cops filing appeal and not going to jail, so.... Yeah it was a empty threat, fish with judges trying to arrest police officers as police officers have to willing to arrest themselves, judges can't do it so nothing happens
"If you drop your lawsuit, we'll give you $8,500 back." "So, you've kidnapped my money, and now you're demanding over $8k ransom to give some of it back?"
Its literally extortion. They admit the money is legit and legally yours by offering you half. The extortion comes in when they threaten to take all of it if you don't fold and allow them to keep half.
