Karlheinz Stockhausen, Gruppen - Ensemble intercontemporain 

😂😂😂

🤣🤣🤣🤣

😂😂😂😂

"I thought we were playing Mozart tonight"

😂😂😂😂😂😂

è vero

Everything vibrates.

lmao. Imagine this being the last remnant of humanity.

Maybe he had no choice, as the director of the paris conservatoire, since the orchestra of the conservatoire was performing along with the EIC...;-)

Nor one i thought id ever read.

oui c'est totalement vrai !

It is still the sound of me going insane from the nightmare!

That's because it's one of the few pieces left which radio stations like KUSC here in Los Angeles hasn't played literally a hundred times in the first six months of this year alone--- and isn't that dreadful "minimalism." Like "In C" ("C" standing for "Cruel and Unusual Punishment"). In case you've ever wondered why "top" musicians love playing In C, now you know. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_C

I don't like Serialism but I do enjoy Gruppen. It even moves towards Minimalism later on in the piece with the use of repetition. A marvelous experimental piece.

@@patrickcrosby3824 Surely you don't see Reich's highly developed, syncopated and and melodic music as punishment? His understanding of music is really comprehensive.

As someone very ignorant of Stockhausen other than a few snippets and a bit of reading, I found it very interesting and (surprisingly, at least to me!) listenable. It must be incredibly difficult to orchestrate and rehearse. Very dramatic musically but I'm not sure 'melody' would spring immediately to mind. Can you explain? Thanks.

i know im asking the wrong place but does anybody know of a tool to get back into an Instagram account..? I stupidly forgot my login password. I love any help you can give me

All visual art is shit, doesn't matter who it is. The Mona Liza is lame masturbation

The youtube comment section is truly awful. Just awful.

@@bartyouknowme1699 gr8 b8 m8

@@bartyouknowme1699 yeah dude good point

@@bartyouknowme1699 you seem like a miserable bastard. Maybe you need a vacation.

Thanks !

You could do the same with entire movements of Mozart works and nobody would be able to tell the difference

amateurs.

Wasn't that an indeterminate note?

This music was created, for people to stand to the side, peeling off magnanimous words will great intellectual prowess, and assuming the Avantgarde by proxy.

Perhaps, but at least with Gruppen, if half of it was in error, the audience would never know.

I'm just amazed all of the effort wasted composing and rehearsing this piece only to have it sound like rubbish.

@@pikachuchujelly7628 It is very interesting or else we wouldn`t do it. And it is great for horror and sci-fi.

@@drivinsouth651 Yes, it can be used to great effect in movies, but listening to a 20 minute piece with nothing but this is not pleasant.

@@pikachuchujelly7628 After you finish laughing, reeling in terror, or both, it stops being interesting and becomes quite annoying. It literally sounds insane and I wonder if I am losing my mind along with the orchestra. , lol!

Down hill since then.

He was certainly THE MAN if you wanted to proclaim him as the AVANT AUTEUR du jour. Nor sure if it sounds so transgressive now.

And Stravinsky thought that anyone could have composed Messiaen's "Turangalila-Symphonie" given enough manuscript paper. The difference is that just about everyone who hears Turangalila loves it, while this Stockhausen piece is completely forgotten 30 seconds after hearing it (and ditto most of late Stravinsky).

docsketchy That's not true whatsoever

I agree with Docsketchy completely...@@davidbrant390 The only reason this piece is remembered is because of it's unorthodox arrangement.

@Boris Sitnikoff Stockhausen was all about the theatre of a performance, you shouldn't need me to tell you that. Half of his piece was the concept, whether helicopters of 3 orchestras... Most people wouldn't pay to see this, it's laboratory music, nothing more, in my opinion. Sure, he won't be forgotten in a hurry, but I believe that's just BECAUSE of the craziness of the music. There are lots of ensembles/conductors that want to keep this music going, but there isn't a large audience for it. Compare that to a philip glass, arvo pärt, nico muhly or max richter concert.

@Boris Sitnikoff Dude i'm not going to be your reading list, go read about the man. I'd suggest 'My musical language' by Messiaen, there's a good section on Stockhausen. Do i really need to spell it out for you when the man was paid to write a piece for helicopters?

Not that different from an audience at a Mozart concerto

Nadie entiende nada y todos fingen que les gusta

​@@dianamarin3767If you don't like, why you don't give a damn and go to hell?

I feel like I'm summoned to hell and being beaten with hammers and sticks.

@@TheMikkis100 I know. Isn't it great.

I think it isn't a matter of the avant-garde moving on, it's more that something like this could be seen as a very brilliant dead-end. Even Stockhausen himself after writing this work and also making Kontakte changed! Personally I think this and Kontakte are his two great masterpieces. It's possibly too hard to explain here but the relations of tempos in the piece are harmonic ratios and the "model" of the piece is that of a three part counterpoint but with single pitches replaced by "groups" of pitches: each "group" is one note underneath. One reason why there are long sustained pitches towards the end is that Stockhausen stops articulating them in the way he does at the beginning, so it starts to feel "clearer". Stockhausen added "inserts" into the piece (such as the huge brass climax at 120bpm) which don't follow the model he laboriously constructed - the common idea of "serialism" as some kind of automatism is a complete falsehood by the way, a lot of this music is freely composed on top of an extremely rigorous scheme. I am glad that this piece exists. It is very often purely thrilling at a sonic level, especially when so well played as this. I would prefer this played a hundred times over even one scene of the late operas, which I regard as the biggest wasted effort in the history of music, not least because Stockhausen gave up constructing sound from the ground up when synthesisers became available and he could simply dial up a ready-made sound by the time of the Licht cycle.

Art can only ever reflect/interpret the age it was made in, but kind of parallel to painting having been changed by the revelation of African art... WESTERN painting having been changed... the influence of, say, gamelan on the work of Glass, Reich and others is, to me, undeniable. But in this case, and it might be something to do with being written in the post war period, the influence of Japanese music seems apparent to me; that move from a piece being effectively a melodic development, a cohesive structure to a "series" of "events" is, to me, an almost zen like way of telling the/a story.

@@porcinet1968 I have read your post twice and find myself in at least broad agreement with you. I also have this strange idea which I have carried around for some time, that post-WW2 art was in many cases a reaction to the horror of war and more particularly THE BOMB. "freely composed on top of an extremely rigorous scheme", again TO ME, sounds like a description of a Japanese influence. I could be wrong; I often am.

I can have the same experience walking into a middle school band room when they are warming up.

de hecho habria que taparselos 24 minutos es increible lo que la gente afirma con tal de parecer inteligente

​@@dianamarin3767unfortunately I think you're right.

Not only you can't SEE all conductors at the same time (thanks to the incompetence of the film-maker) but you can't even HEAR that there are three ensembles (grupen) and three conductors, supposedly in interaction with each other, because this coexistence is a pure concept, an abstraction, which defies perception. Someone who does not know the way in which this piece is conceived would never guess that there are 3 ensembles. A perfect exemple of how contemporary music has built itself on a wilful ignorance of physiological parameters of sound perception.

@@jean-francoisbrunet2031 You can see all 3 conductors at 14.07-14.28, 17.50-18.09, 18.19-18.30, 22.44-23.00 and especially at 20.27-20.37. Clearly this is a challenge for stereo recording but if you get closer than what might be your normal listening position, you can hear what a great job the sound engineers have done.

@emilianoturazzi A more interesting generalization might be to the Codex Chantilly or the 36-voice canon attributed to Ockeghem. But any debate is pointless without first agreeing on a certain fact: for the first time since the beginning of what can be called classical music (the late Middle Ages? The Renaissance?), and for more than half a century now, 99% of music lovers hardly ever listen to contemporary music (whereas before, they practically only listened to contemporary music). Only then can one profitably ask the question of the mechanism behind this strange evolution.

​@emilianoturazzi I never said that 99% of the contemporaries of Dufay or Debussy listened to their music, I said that 99% of MUSIC LOVERS (by which I meant lovers of "classical" or highbrow music, with all the qualifications you want about the changing meaning of those words throughout history) listened to their music (and to practically none from the past, which is another capital point to consider). So, the first large half of your answer is moot. On the other hand, your story about the local contemporary music festival could be a valid answer, if it was not an anecdote in the face of which fly so many obvious observations that it would be tedious to list. To reformulate and reduce the scope: the average, decently educated classical music lover of around 1920 would listen to Puccini, Debussy, Fauré, Ravel, Mahler, Strauss, a bit of romantic, a touch of Bach (who was largely rediscovered in the XXth century, which says a lot!), maybe had a fight about Le Sacre du Printemps, et voilà: in other words, was immersed in quasi contemporary music. The same type of person today (it does not matter if there are much fewer of them), listens to the same as above + a lot of baroque music, and maybe some Renaissance, and will never touch with a ten-foot pole Le Marteau sans Maître or Carré, the Barraqué piano sonata, or you-name-it (60-70 years old pieces, i.e. the equivalent of Rameau for contemporaries of Beethoven). It is not a banality to say that, it is the exact opposite: a taboo (in the circles that are aware of the name “Stockhausen”, that is). I think they are deep reasons for that (which would lead to my original remark) but before considering them I like to establish this glaring state of affairs. However, there is little point in going on if I am confronted with a barrage of scandalized exclamation marks and treated like a nitwit who can’t even figure out by ear the obvious sound architecture of Gruppen. This said, I don't think you are stupid to like Gruppen, and I wish you a happy listening session.

I did exactly this with a piece by Gerard Grisey that uses percussion to outline those "harmonic rhythms" and it literally sounded like speech when sped up to a fraction of its actual length

@@porcinet1968 I need video demonstrations of that, sounds incredible

Scott Bradley (composer for the Tom & Jerry shorts) actually incorporated Schoenberg's 12-tone-serialism in his scores for a few episodes.

Agree!

el inmenso ego de strawinsky obligó al mundo musical a fingir que esto le gusta.

@@dianamarin3767 Stravinsky supo apreciar la buena música de todos los estilos, aunque no fuera su estética específica. En este aspecto no tenía ego. Deberías aprender una lección de Stravinsky en ese sentido...

And, moreover, he composed this piece in 1957, when the electric guitar was still in it's infancy.

Hi Seawall. I'm listening in a dairy barn in Illinois at 2:45am. Come have a coffee with me. Live stock seem to have a great appreciation for Stockhausen.

Also as collective instrument tuning session

I think your comment says a lot more about your psychological state than about the piece. I have rather the sense of enrichment instead of extermination while listening to it.

@@thomaslaubli1886 Lol a funny quip. I like to make bold claims that challenge people's perspectives. I think you're missing the point of my comment though due to either misinterpretation or presumption. Tell me the point of listening to music that's clearly designed to illicit dark emotional connotations (i.e. compositions by Lili Boulanger, or Bernard Herrmann)? Don't fall sway to the temptation of trolling due to anonymity, it's inappropriate and too normalized these days. Talk to me and others as if you cared about the human behind the keyboard.

How much acid were you on while listening to this?

Q massa cara.

I'd rather say that your comment is pretentious.

Mikhail Baryshnikov, definitely not John Travolta.

Yes it is......

claro, descansaste cuando se terminó. como todo el mundo

spatiality.

+Garrett -- thanks for that answer. I can interpret that several ways. I suppose it is similar to having Quadraphonic stereo speakers instead of just 2?

In a proper performance the ochestras are placed so the audience is in the middle and all the interplay between is shooting back and forth across the auditorium.

It is also written out as different tempos for the different orchestras