I appreciate the sentiment, Tim, but there as so many people out there who should learn the basics. Intervals -> scales -> triads. That's enough knowledge to get **much** more out of the gear you already own. I really think people blow "learning theory" out of proportion... it's not that hard and it enables you to make decisions with confidence. I am a much, much better musician now that I taught myself the basics. There are folks out there with $10's of thousands of dollars worth of gear that aren't getting anywhere (i know some, personally). They would be orders of magnitude more productive and able to produce the music they want if they learned what notes are available to them.
I went to college and got a BA in music. And I had to forget much of what I learned to find the music that I wanted to play. This is the big secret. We are all just fumbling around until it sounds right to us. No matter how much we learned in school. Certainly school helped me but it is a guide only and nothing more.
1) No rules in music... it comes from the heart and if it moves the listener you've won 2) Nothing wrong with getting lessons. Never too late to learn. 3) You're a great teacher. Your Jupiter XM content (for example) is amazing. More please! That beast is so poorly documented by Roland and your videos are super helpful!! 4) EVH, SRV, and countless others couldn't read or write music but that didn't stop them from being legendary. At the end of the day music that makes you want to hear it a second time is way more entertaining than music made to impress other musicians. 5) We're all fumbling along. Even the most well studied music school grads would be lying if they didn't admit the same. Keep fumbling! I think I speak for a lot of others when I say we appreciate what you do!!
Point 5 is very accurate IMO, I'm considered fairly highly trained by most standards and how most my pieces get wrote is still mostly fumbling around other than sometime restricting myself to a particular key. Only thing music theory really helped me with is learning how to break most of it's "rules" while sounding good. Another thing is too many people like to act like music theory is prescriptionist when it's actually descriptionist in nature and is always playing catch up to some extent to real world practices by musicians and music writers.
Tim, you have provided wonderful validation for how I approach music. People often ask me, "What are you going to do with your music?" and they don't know how to take it when I say, "Not much, I just enjoy creating it." When I make something I really like, I polish it up and add it to my list of tracks I like. When that list gets around 10 to 12 tracks long, I put it together as an "album." Wash, rinse, repeat. The thrill of discovery in making music sustains me. No real formal training. (violin in grade school, choir in high school) But I've managed to learn a hell of a lot about synths since I got a new Yamaha DX100 for my 17th birthday... Thanks for what you do, and for your perspective! (Oh, and I really enjoyed your track!)
Honestly, the real reason to know your theory and lingo is so that you can more easily and effectively communicate to other musicians. It's harder to play in a band and have a workflow if you can't talk shop. If you mostly self-produce in a one-man operation, the terminology can take a backseat to instinct.
Regardless of what you said (and it was heartfelt and relatable), I would recommend taking a little time to familiarize yourself with a bit more synthesis techniques. For example - and please excuse me if I'm wrong - from at least a couple of your videos I gather that you don't seem to know the difference between linear and exponential FM. There is a somewhat substantial difference between the two and, IMHO, by you knowing the difference it would help you to expand your pallet of sound creation considerably. And even if you do know the difference I still recommend digging up a new technique or two to fumble with. It couldn't hurt to jolt the old inspiration circuit now and then.
I'm a fumbler too, I don't know music theory I just go by my ears, I think if trained music theory people were the only people who made music you wouldn't have all the great electronic genres we have now, they were all pioneered by fumblers.
There's no doubt that happy fumbling is valuable and unplanned exploration can lead to interesting places. What I think people misunderstand about getting into the technical side of a craft, though, is that it shouldn't be about discovering arcane secrets to make your music better; it should be about recognizing the patterns that you intuitively lay down in your fumbling so that you can have more freedom and intention in where you take them.
Great video, Tim! Appreciate how honest and transparent you are. That's what makes you one of the most respectable RU-vidrs around. Love the "fumbling" track! Beautiful music as always :)
I’ve been fumbling along for 36 years. Wrote or co wrote must be over 1000 pieces of music. Still can’t read or write music (or play any particular instrument to any decent standard). I wouldn’t want to have done anything differently though (other than maybe a little bit of tuition when I was 14 before I started).
We may be fairly similar. Like you I have a technical background as a programmer. But in my youth had a passion for music making and just learning neat creative things. I’ve gone on to know a lot of subjects at a competent level. But for those involving pure creativity I shy away from getting into the technical weeds. Not because I can’t, but because it somehow drains something of the spontaneous joy from the experience. Over the years I’ve had instances to brush up on my music compositional theory, and to varying degrees it was helpful. But almost always it was helpful as a purely intellectual pursuit. I “understood” a bit better why some chords work together, for instance. But somewhat paradoxically I found the actual music I was making tending quite dull and formulaic. By contrast, listening to my nascent musical attempts, there were plenty of embarrassing false starts, but also some amazing happy accidents that I can’t regain because my neural pathways - even as I’m aware of it - now tend me towards “correct form.” I miss some of that truly naive magic. I try to get it back a bit whenever I find myself playing on my analog synth. A novel sound comes out every now and again and it just takes me on its own journey and feels wonderful.
I like that music at the end. It sort of reminds me of Because it's There by Michael Hedges. I think your message is good. There are as many ways to approach music as there are musicians!
Learning music theory, studying composition, it's just an expansion of your musical vocabulary. Theory isn't prescriptive, it's descriptive. It doesn't tell you how to do things but how things were done in the past. It's a history lesson. And it also doesn't remove "heart and feel" from your music, it only gives you a larger colour palette. No one NEEDS it obviously but we also shouldn't make the mistake of calling it pointless. (Not directed at you, Tim, I know you didn't do that)
Authenticity is your strength. 'Fumbling along, winging it'. Using skills and talent with the mind of a beginner. In Buddhism it is called Beginners Mind. If we feel we are experts, we confine ourselves and restrict possibilities that happen outside of our knowing. You're doing just fine Tom. Thank you for the channel.
The state the Bbc is in its good you didnt get the job. I like this idea of fumbling as the Beatles fumbled all the great hits. No music theory. Nobody could read music🥰. Macartney said if it sounded good then thats all they wanted for a good session. Nice one Tim at the end.
We're many in this case. Ask me how I compose music, what "technicaly" is in it, I'm totaly unable to reply. And I don't care. Yes, somehow I know few things, when I need to edit some notes in my piano roll, I know I'm no more in 4/4 but in 5/8, or more complicated time signatures, or this particular chords should me modified in order to fit with what will going on after. But it's after the composition process, after the idea. And as you create and sculpt air vibrations on purpose, you ARE a musician, whatever is your style of music. Maybe nobody hears you, as almost nobody hears me too, but again, I DO not care and we've to be naive.
Much appreciated topic. Relatable, couldn't explain the theory of what I make either, but the intention is always the same. Making something that feels true and brings me joy whilst creating it.⚡
Your ears will always be more powerful than your eyes when it comes to music. I live by the acronym: HAMA Havin A Mess Around. It’s a lot of fun. Great advice. Stay safe. Keep jammin.
lots of theory cuts your freedom to create.. yes its a unstoppable search... freedom to play what comes your mind this is the best for me nice to ear you always ❤
Fully agree Tim... I am exactly same with my music, for me I like to hear music since ever, especially progressive rock, and I try play this style for me. I dont had any education in music. I just listen what they doing and try to bring my ideas on that basic to life. Thats all i do. And it sounds quite good. My parents never alloweed me to study something in music, they said to me exactly same like for you. Learn a real job. Music in special rock music was for my parents a scene they not understood, there were drugs and a lot of alcohol, thats what they dont wanted I would come in. And the unsure factor nobody likes your music so you grow poor.. So their words. So finally my early music interests stood in the darkness until I was 19 and bought me short later my first two synthesizers, an Oberheim Matrix 6 and a KORG DW 8000. Third one a half year later was a Roland D 10. My parents react not amused... I dont had any Idea what I could do with it, but I start to read the manuals first and start fumbling around. Especially the DW 8000 gave me fast results in pads, those legendary Filter Reso Sweeps... Easy to program and understand it. Today after more than 30 years I had almost all important synthesizers of many different brands once under my fingers, even I dont own them all yet more... sadly.. But that gave me the oportunity finally to be or feel like a synth guru... I know everything of all kind of synths, how to program them. A knowledge maybe one day brings me a possibility to my life. Who knows... Until today its only a hobby, know that all and make my music, and I am happy. But I am trying now actually to bring back to life a music project I had 25 years ago with my brother then, and dozens of cool songs just wait to come to be finished. By the way... The real job I achieved on my parents advice then, I have still, I am driving trains. haha. But finally that gives me enough money to buy me interesting synths and stuff if I want them have. So the real job is not that bad at all finally.... and more stable than a musicians life... hehe
Your story sounds vaguely familiar. I had an interview with the BBC as a trainee sound engineer in the 80s. I wish I paid attention in Physics class, as the interviewer asked me about resistors in series and parallel and circuits. Perhaps it was my misinterpretation of what a sound engineer working for the BBC does, but it felt like they wanted me to repair Nagra machines rather than use them to make sound recordings. Good luck to all those who could fulfill the BBC brief. I too have been fumbling along since receiving a Music Tech degree in 2010. I take my hat off to you Tim for some excellent fumblings and making some inspiring videos. Best wishes.
BBC is possibly one of the most archaic producers of music imo, specifically for Doctor Who theme and Delia Derbyshire. Whilst Ron Grainer tried in vain to get her credit, it showed that the BBC was some sort of old man's club when understanding the impact of Delia's work. She was a pioneer in her field, her technical merit was amazing, using maths to make her bass line in the Dr Who theme. One can only imagine if they got new blood into the BBC how things would better evolve.
I have exactly the same point of view, or maybe style of being. There are some things I can't name or explain, but the end result often impresses others. I'm self-taught - I make music as well. As a "sound designer" I often fall into a kind of hypnosis and interesting things happen. That's probably why I can't create a tutorial that so many people ask me for. Where theory ends, interesting things start to happen. Cheers mate !
I love how a Brit needs to clear up “fumbling” as not being a sexual innuendo 😊 Over here in Canada, the thought never occurred to me, lol. Keep up the great work Tim. One of my favourite creators and your channel is fun and informative!
Well said...☀️ Music, and art in general, is created from feelings, impressions and emotions experienced by the artist. Theory is a great thing to master but can be a factor of limitations. Real new groundbreaking art is created by breaking some rules and just using your senses and following the heart...❤ That is the difference between talent and education...😊
Thanks for sharing Tim! If I had of been the 'Head of Cameras' interviewer - I would have been way more impressed by your photo portfolio being good enough for you to have gotten all the way thru to the important interview - without the technical knowledge. As it shows a natural gift that few have - the rest can be learned. 🙂 There cannot be any mistakes - with art that's made from the heart be it music or photography.
My main problem with music theory is that it is usually taught backwards (even in music schools). Teachers take an existing piece of uninteresting music and the pupils have to squeeze the contents of it into a music Excel sheet. If you look at music theory class rooms then there are usually no instruments in there, maybe apart from a piano for teacher. This says a lot. The only thing this is good for is to create repeatable test conditions for the grades. This has nothing to do with music. If the goal is to write actual music then I think it's really way better to learn by fumbling. First create the music and then look at it later. What sounded good and what didn't work? How does it work in my favorite artist's songs? And so on. Of course you need some basics like scales and chords but everything else will come as you go. And all the useful bits will stick because they are not theory anymore.
Yep, theory is the tail, not the dog. I once had to adjust a melody because the keyboardist would not play the chords I wanted to my original melody because to do so "broke the rules".
@@unclemick-synths we were always told to learn the rules so we could break them. All it did was contaminate my focus, rather than work with infused inspiration, it made it more clinical as you were always following rules. If you don't know the rules, then you have free forming flow. Whether it appeals to other people shouldn't really matter. Might as well stick to the the Axis of Awesome 4 chords and call it a day. Music is mathematics based, use these rules and then apply it to painting, might as well paint by numbers. I get why people like music theory, but I like to drive a car, not, how to put one together.
@@dankeplace yes "contaminate" is a good word. Theory is taught wrong IMO. It should be about understanding what your ear tells you to do so you know why it works so you can do the same thing in other scenarios. When things don't work, it's not because they break any "rules", it's just because they don't sound as good as a different approach would. Theory gatekeepers won't like my opinion 😀 It also bugs me that notation and theory often get lumped together as "theory" when they're two separate and separable things and should be taught as separate subjects. I'm glad I avoided conservatory lessons until I was old enough to pick and choose what I wanted to learn. It was a good thing my piano teacher was open minded so we had some fascinating discussions!
@@unclemick-synths Theory gatekeepers is like what I think some music teachers seem to be, so apt wording. The issue I have is that whilst having music theory being taught to us, we were also studying "History of electronic music" which dated back to the 1600s funnily enough. The influences on what made music today, but curiously it seemed genres where being governed by religion at the time, we were only really given specific music to listen to, whilst I was going back on a journey discovering this, we were being taught only Western scales with music theory. I mean I could see the train wreck before it was happening, that's why I used the word "contamination", I felt I was just been given only a part of the reality of music. We were given a glimpse of other cultures scales, microtonal, but never shown how to break those "rules" etc. This to me seemed a bias and would now stick with me forever, only having a little of the puzzle. This is why I don't care for music theory, not because it can't be useful, but the teachers not doing their respective jobs properly, and I think I had 4 different teachers with a similar approach. Only Western scales mattered.
Tim, I wouldn't worry about this! I sure that most of us are on your playing field! I'm 74 years and I've been involved with keyboards since I first seen the Dave Clark Five around 1964! And I asked my father to get me a Vox Jaguars! His only requirement was that I take lessons which was alright with me! Any ways come 1967 and I found myself in the United States Marine Corps! When I left the Corps after serving my enlistment thins were starting to change and it wasn't long before the mini moog was on the market but was to expensive at that time which hasn't changed! I instead got involved with strings synthesizers and I'm still involved at my current age! But when we keep at it even with the fumbling that we do everything seems to work out! At my age I'm still always scheming to come up with 5he dough to by that next synth! And so my fumbling just keeps rolling along! Keep up the great work with your videos and Thanks
@@TimShoebridge My philosophy has always been, that the only discipline or skill I need to be book-learned on is the one that puts food on my plate. Industry terminology, standards, patterns and ways of doing something become important in a professional context where being capable of speaking the lingo with clients and team members is a sink or swim matter. Of my two primary skills (software development and music), I made a conscious decision in college to go for safety and security and focus on software engineering - not just being able to cobble things together that I wanted to make, but being able to architect things with great purpose, and when needed and it was lucrative to do so, that someone else wanted me to make. Studying formal software engineering and being a hack at music turned out to be the right decision for me. I've worked with self-taught software developers that never learned the formal ropes and the outcome is usually a disaster. However, regardless of how disasterous my music might be to anyone but me (lol)... it's never resulted in millions of dollars lost, or even human lives lost (yes, I've seen both cases result from unskilled software labor). So now as I get older, I try to backfill my skillset with musical knowledge, learning a bit of theory here or there, learning something new about my hardware or a new production technique. It's very satisfying and there's an infinite amount to learn. If I had it to do all over again though, I would have kept one foot in music all along (still at the amateur level though), instead of going periods of years or even a full decade without induldging in the music hobby like I did. It is an incredibly therapeutical escape and a hobby I recommend to anyone. As a career, I think it's for the brave and passionate only.
I pretty much work the same way, Tim! ;-) In the past I had drum/percussion, piano, theory, and composition instruction for just shy of ten years when I was in school but that was long ago and a majority of it didn't stick well (and I didn't do too well in the classes at the time) except the drum performance stuff so I just have some "hints" of compositional technique that I can use from time to time. Lovely little tune you did at the end there! 👌😎👍
I’m glad i clicked on your video. I basically do the same thing for my electronic music especially. I do know some music theory but ifs more like i know it but its still disconnected from what I actually do when i sit down to improvise. I am self taught and at an age (60 in Nove) that i know myself and my limitations and also my ability to retain information. So i still try to teach myself music theory and electronic music terrms but what alwayd gives me the most pleasure is just sitting or standing at my equipment and getting into that flow and if i feel the video is sometjong that others might enjoy then i share and that’s a bonus! :)
Fumbling is a good way to phrase it, because for most of us it is the exploration involved in making music which we engage with, not the shiny shiny mass common denominator uber selling finished products.
Excellent, inspiring, wise, heartening advice that really gets to the heart of the matter, and with such brilliant simplicity. Thank you for taking the time to share this invaluable wisdom, Mr. Shoebridge.
There is a third category that often belongs to the "music theory first" : The great demo-players/performers who are often crap at creating interesting music. You know them! They are the ones who have a fantastic technique, can play and improvise with a great skill. Back in the day (late 80:s/the early 90:s) they had a preference to what is called "Jazz Fusion" or "Progressive Jazz". You know, the style that Herbie Hancock,Chick Korea, Jan Hammer (before Miami Vice) and the rest was famous for. These artists very often were featured in the Keyboard Magazine which otherwise was very Synth oriented. Very skilled but also extremely boring music, often with preset FM sounds. Often with lots of the typical brass ensemble sounds and always Fender Rhodes in the DX7. Examples of this style could very often be found in the demo songs of some Synths in the late 80:s/early 90:s. A prime example are the demo songs for the Roland D-10, which are very much about this type of Jazz Fusion Style.
I was lucky with my BBC interview in 1959, I had built an FM tuner and answered what was the difference between FM and AM, so I got a job in TV! aged 18. Your words are wise, and your music I would aspire to. I will continue fumbling or "dicking around". I believe listening to music or creating it (not RAP) is the most theraputic activity. After many years on Protools (I worked for Avid on Media Composer) I have settled on Reaper. All the best in your activities.
I'm a definite fumbler. I have a pal who is VERY well-educated musically speaking. He listens to my stuff and often proclaims "I'd never have written that. I never COULD have written that". Half of me desperately wants to learn to write music 'properly' but the other half wonders if I'll become averse to wandering and finding stuff beyond the rules.
Music Theory is fun and easier when recording and jamming by yourself when you understand it a little....Then you can bend it to your will and it becomes mesmerizing!
Just came across this, excelllent thoughts. Like many (in particular I feel) who play synths I just fumble around and (very) occasionally finish something. I disagree with those who suggest it's better just to fumble, any knowledge of your tools can only be beneficial - it's up to you to decide when to use or ignore that knowledge. I often 'hear' tunes in my head and spectacularly fail at translating them to the real world, I think ear training and more knowledge of music theory could really help me there. Re your BBC story, I'm one of the lucky ones who did succeed (at the 3rd attempt) originally applying to radio for sound engineering. Glad I didn't get it, as in BBC parlance 'engineers' fix things and (or used to) wire patchbays or these days - IT support...
Ha!! Almost the same journey as me. When I was much younger, all I wanted to do was music, Everything I did, involved being around music. At 16, I had an interview with the BBC as a Trainee Sound Engineer (back in the 80's they had superb trainee programs for everything!!). At the interview, I was asked technical questions which I probably should have known but I didn't. I wanted to be trained, I didn't have all the knowledge they required. I did my A levels to fill 2 years and got some work experience in local radio stations but always had might sights on a career in music. I wasn't technically good enough to go to music school and back in the 80's, sound engineering courses were few and far between (not like today). I was lucky enough to get a job in a small studio in Leicester. I loved every minute I spent there but like you, my parents always wanted me to get 'a proper job' so after 2 years, I changed to the career I still do to this day (30+ years later). My collection of synths continues to grow and I procrastinate with the very best!! I wouldn't change a thing though as along the way, I have had some fantastic opportunities with my music. When it is just a hobby, the pressure is off and I enjoy it now more than I have ever done.
Hello Tim, Just discovered you and subbed.. full respect to you for your honest deliveries on your videos, great coverage, great lighting and great topics. Like what you do and what you write music wise and your presenting is superb. You're a pretty cool dude..👍 Best wishes from nz Looking forward to going thru all your previous videos over a cuppa and I use different keys also. I'm fumbling along myself at a good age and your information of your own discoveries with gear is invaluable. You are so easy and clear to listen to at a pace I can fully get my head around. Thank you. 👍🎹👍
Very similar experience in my late teens. BBC interview for sound engineer where he was asking me all about how the electronics of microphones work and about logarithms ! Needless to say the outcome and I’ve been an aircon designer/draughtsman all my working life. Fumbling along is terrific fun.
Another word for 'fumbling' is froebling Like the architect Frank Lloyd Wright who got small blocks from his mother as a child and were call Froebel blocks
I’ve found that people who understand musical theory, and those good souls who can strip and rebuild a synth to its former glory, these people tend not compose a lot, and if they do, their music is typically middle of the road. I’ve found the greatest music to be created by self taught musicians, and those who just have a deep love for music. But then again, I think this theory of mine applies all across the board - typically, a car mechanic is probably not the greatest Formula One driver, or the Wright Brothers were probably not the worlds greatest flyers. Thanks Tim for a great video.
I am well educated in the discipline of music theory but I’d like to contribute that it is just one of many different languages used to discuss music, and is essentially just a tool of communication and identification . You don’t have to learn what things are called, unless you have a question about something specific that only a college grad would care to know.
This is always a tough decision. Theory is great I guess if you want to know how to compose a symphony, but for your own music it's best to stick with what sounds good to you. Theory can limit that by telling you the 'proper' way. Then again it could help in suggesting ideas if you're stuck. I prefer to know a little just to help me feel safe in decisions.
glad to know that self taught fumbling along seams like its a common trait among creatives, I too was want ing a career in photography but just didnt feel good enough or just wasnt competitive , when often create a song much later after its complete i often wonder just where did that actually come from ? it amazes me every time and why i carry on fumbling - music and creating just feels great - wether its good bad or just right -- thanks Tim
Wow. Similar dreams. I started off as a young photographer but rock n roll won. Now, after 40+ years, I make money at video and photo, to pay for the fumbling. I actively resisted music theory, for my entire life, so that it wouldn’t become predictable. Life is to short to figure everything out by the age of 30. Great riff. It will always be from your soul and nowhere else.
Some of my friends and friends of friends, people in the circles I know… are incredibly talented and knowledgeable… and know the lingo so they can work together. Ive conversed with them many times… and they tend to like music thats very progressive and not boring to them. But they seemed to be incredibly formulaic. Although complex and with depth.. they still kinda go about it in very objective, (pre) determined manner. Best thing someone said to me (a drummer)… i played him a bit of a tune and he said “i just wouldnt write drums like that… well, for a start I’ve only got 4 limbs… i suppose you could have a percussionist too”. So i tend to make sure I never have more than 6 drum hits go off at once 🤣And i give more thought to instrumentation.. thats a problem most bands dont have… they have a defacto tried and tested bunch of instruments. interesting stuff though… theres more than one way to skin a cat!
Yes, yes, and yes but, someday, not today, but someday you must write something more than fumbling tunes. They might be the most fun, they might be the most pleasing but someday you must write something great. You can't do that without some theory. It'll be the most challenging, but it'll be the most rewarding. Write all kinds of music, big tunes and small. But write at least one great song in your lifetime.
that's what I tell my students, between the sentences all along! It's honest and the only way. Education, nowadays is about regurgitating knowledge, while sharing experience is being neglected.
