I think a big factor at play here is the economics of social media. Polarizing content generates more comments, more shares, and more views. Which, in turn, trains the algorithm to favor that type of content since it keeps people watching ads. So on the supply side, there is an economic incentive to generate content with extreme opinions. On the demand side, social media is not really built for nuanced discussion by it's users either. It favors short comments, it makes it hard to follow longer threads of conversation, and since you are not likely to interact with people again, there's no incentive to be nice. Finally, the design encourages binge watching, which makes it easy for a person to consume an insane amount of polarized content on a daily basis. I'm no psychologist, but it seems to me that if you watch that much extreme content everyday, you'll internalize at least some of those extreme opinions. Be it music fandom, politics, or sports all topics are becoming polarized. I think the business model of social media plays a huge role in that.
Kudos to you brother for standing on principles and not allowing your channel to be compromised. So much of hip hop media (and music media broadly) is in the pocket of this or that artist that it's hard to even watch. Love the channel bruh.
big respect for keeping everything as authentic as you see it and cultivating a community that i feel shares similar values. as a kendrick fan, ngl it's been a high lately but i agree that it does nothing for me lol i still gotta go about my life and i understand that. but the stan vs fan convo is something that i been thinking about since twitter popped on the scene and more and more people have been dishing out wild controversial ass takes whether it be music, fashion, sports, and politics. the internet has wiped critical thinking and comprehension, cancel culture and stans have become the new bullies, and the free thinkers are being boxed out of mainstream society and culture. i find it alarming how much the internet has raised and influenced kids and even some adults - some of these ppl need to go outside fr lol. i remember thinking when like that dropped, i was speaking with some homies and i was like "whenever this beef ends, it's not going to change how i feel about drake or kendrick" because i personally just resonate with kendrick's art way more than i do with drake. still bump drake, but that's just how i felt and still do with the beef winding down. i think it's hilarious (and a bit sad) to witness grown ppl fight over these dudes like its biden and trump. but i think that's just where we are in today's society when it comes to any type of disagreement. the expectation is to choose a side and stand 10 toes down on that side, which is fucking crazy if you ask me lol. no one's hearing anybody out anymore, they just waiting for the person on the other side to stop talking so they can get their shit off. i really hope as a society we can get past this, but until then i won't be participating in any "discussion" or communities that are incapable of putting their egos aside and having an open minded dialogue.
So many good points in your video. I think this battle hits different. Jay-Z and Nas were both from New York. Ja and 50 both from Queens. You pick your favorite MC and move on. This Drake/Kendrick battle was Industry vs. Culture. It's more than just pick your favorite MC, it became about morals, and who do you want to represent us. Also both of them have also been in the game longer than other rappers at the point when they got into beef, so they mean a lot more to their fans - thus making their fans be more like stans! To tell a Drake fan that their fave lost and might be guilty of a lot of things brings them to the edge because his music was the soundtrack of their life.
I think a lot of this has to do with what I think is a major problem on the internet: too much hyperbole, not enough language comprehension. Fandoms are being led by children who can't comprehend anything but something being the absolute best or worst thing they've ever heard. I saw a tweet today that described it best for me; "...everything is either 'jesus christ' or 'holy shit...'" The worst part of it is the stans, going to the greatest lengths to ensure the narrative living on in their head survives the river of public discourse. Honestly, they used to be pretty creative in a way that was almost admirable; now, with the rise of generative AI services, the desire to be the first and the loudest outweighs the use of their creative thresholds. I often wonder how many stans are able to read objectively, or interact with other human beings without such an incredulous bias affecting their presentation and personality. Great video, as always. Rob Markman is the best hip-hop creative and artist on RU-vid right now, bar none.
Man, this exactly the perspective that the culture of Hip-Hop needs. But end of the day, it just goes-to-show, that odd difference in definition between “Hip-Hop” and “Rap” (or every other sub-genre that was born from Hip-Hop). Lately, I can’t allow myself to pay any attention to anyone’s take on music/art within this industry unless I see they have the ability to provide some kind of opinion with unbiased perspective. And ya, I got so many friends that are die-hard for certain artists, and I still give them their time to throw their opinion just cause I ain’t got really no one else to throw shit around with about the topic… but man… ain’t no one I know got an unbiased perspective like this @Rob- and this is a perfect event/topic to speak on this man. So much respect brother, keep em comin
Kdot vs Drake is like chick fil a vs McDonald’s. Two huge successful businesses at war. You can have your favorite food but it’s not an excuse to tear each other apart. A book definitely should be made on being a Stans.
It's the internet. It makes people talk crazier than they would in person not to mention how algorithms reinforce our opinions. But I never met a stan in real life who really rode for an artist to the point of acting like people do online. That said, I do see Drake as being different - it's political. Some of what you're seeing is about something bigger than a person's view of his music. I see Drake that way myself and I could talk for hours about it (passionately even) but I've never come at anyone crazy online about it.
You hit fhe nail on the head with this because that AI Megan video is absolutely nuts!! Social media really is at fault for it tho, people say certain things only for engagement or to go viral. I think more media needs to stop trying to protect their relationships and speak down on stan twitter cause it's truly out of hand lol
I think music culture, whether knowingly or not, creates these fanatic paradoxes. We always hear how music has saved my life, many notable artists have records about how hip hop (the culture) saved their lives, and for it to boil down to this ride-or-die mentality is a byproduct of protecting whatever peace or sanctuary music has given them. Not to mention how we are in that "keep that same energy" era, this whole issue of fandom has been around. Kpop fandom can be notorious for such things. It also kind of mirrors gang culture in a way where when people find acceptance, they can be eager to put in work or prove they're down for the set and all that - I believe while the environment is different, the same social pressures are at work. Unfortunately, there is no societal cure-all because all this sells and I believe there are entities higher up at play, knowing this and taking advantage of it all. People have been monetizing conflict since the dawn of man and to fight such a machine would take the same amount of group thought to counter it. I just ignore it all and while I have regional bias in this beef, I also got bills to pay, dinner to cook, and work to do. It's not that serious. BUT to be transparent, Kendrick really did frame this in a way Drake would find difficult to win and it's that this is the culture of hip hop vs hip hop consumerism. I grew up part of hip hop and while now as an adult I can compartmentalize my growing up in a culture vs. me the individual, it is still ingrained within many parts of my being. That and knowing what hip hop was, Kendrick is the perfect flag bearer to sway my bias and "pick a side".
I think the dichotomy of both sides are interesting. I believe there is a chunk of the fan base that isn’t a fan and just hates the other side. I’m west coast till I die but Drake did his Drake thing. To lie and say Drake didn’t drop a good song is crazy the same way it’s crazy to think Kendrick lost.
I know music is subjective and everything, and Drake definitely rapped well on a couple joints. But this stan notion that Drake rapped better than Kendrick in the battle is crazy. I knew it was all cap when people said Drake had crazy bars on Heart 6. Like can we just be honest? Can we judge the music for what it is?
Thank you for addressing this topic! The critical thinking skills of gen pop are depricating. You are cooking with this topic and you definitely should consider this for a book. Donald Glover did the movie "SWARM" that goes into the unhealthy behaviors of fans. Social media has fueled the exponential rise of unhealthy parasocial relationships. When this current battle started, Metro Boomin tweeted "Once you pick a side, stay there.. #WEDONTTRUSTYOU" I looked at it as album promotion but a lot of fans received it differently. I also believe that entities other than fans jump into the social media mix to fuel strife and division. Lastly, the obsession with "fact checking" these songs has drove me crazy! It's almost like fans think they are in a vigilante movie trying to solve a case. I blame Marvel movies for this! LoL!! j/k
Ha, ha! I was just teasing to see if you would make it to the end of my comment. LOL! ..definitely just google the SWARM project because a lot of good discussion came about. The fanbase in SWARM is inspired by Beyonce's Beyhive. 😊
The fans that you are talking about have always been there. We are able to see it more with social media and people also are able to connect with people that feel the same way. Which is probably adding to the obession. I believe that you need to reach out to Professor Skye about the book.
i watched this battle bring a super fan outta one of my homies. love him and its sad to see. like the support from one person will effect an artists career in any way smh
I think we should enjoy the battle and let extreme fans do what they do. Stans are all over the place not just rap. Sports politics they are everywhere And its ok to pick a side. If you arent cool with the antics and behaviors alleged. Also you always dont have to be getting something material to pick a side in a rap battle. Maybe you like what one person stands more than the other. Opinions and views can change. Its funny to me that every battle Drake loses ppl try to find ways to ease the pain for him. Nah fuck that! "This aint rap its Bloodsport" You need to be thorough in the arena or get eaten up. He isnt thorough and its ok that some the audience is turning against him. Much of it is his fault too. We forget all the dissing of innocent women he does
At this point in the beef it’s hard to see how you could still have this perspective. Drake has literally been exposed for stealing music from up and coming artists, then using his power to have them black balled. He’s also been exposed for his sick obsession with younger girls. Drake is literally an imposter and has been exploiting our culture right in our faces. So for me it’s not even about picking a side. It’s about Drake’s lack of integrity and the fact that I can’t even listen to his music without wondering who he has ripped off for it. This ended up being a way bigger picture than just a simple rap beef.
Nah we were absolutely picking sides. But we still rocked with Nas. We didn’t stop rocking with Nas. I didn’t. None of my friends did. I can only speak for us
@@WolfAdonai100 Kendrick fans are just as if not more hypocritical. Kendrick still hasn’t denied Drake allegations, Whitney has not denied allegations and he lied about Drakes daughter. Drake fans be on that bs too tho.
@@inpursuitofexcellence750 Regardless of all that what you said you just proved my point 😂 I'm not even going to there witcha I been going at with Drake fans for 2 months now especially after the Not like Us video dropped the delusion has gotten worse to the point a Drake Fan told me that Kendrick beat no alleged with a straight face beat Whitney to do the video I completely couldn't say anything about it because even him showing doesn't even work 😭 so there you can have that
I really wish the old head.big hip hop media would stop acting like the loud and weird minority IS the temperature. Like bruh ain’t nobody in real life tripping like that. It’s all jokes
We have had fandom’s in the industry for ages…Beyoncé was being pitted against Taylor swift & Taylor against Beyonce & all it took was for them to take a picture together to stop the rhetoric.The barbs made the Stan culture unbearable because they want to paint Nicki as this wholesome person who we all know ain’t that @ all.I can say that Nicki is a great artist but I don’t like her personally & that is what made me root for all the other girls.I don’t go onto pages to argue with them about Megan unless it’s a lie I feel needs to be addressed but pushing them against each other isn’t what I am here for.U like 1 more than the other then just support them to the fullest but to go down a time line & see narratives being pushed on people that isn’t true is asinine to me.But what makes me even more flabbergasted is the fact that the artist never come out & tell their fans/stans to keep it cute & leave it on wax..They go out of their way to bring the beef into their real lives & doxx people who don’t agree…It should definitely be studied!! 💯✌🏾
@Rob Markman you have been an inspiration for me for years been watching you from day one. Your ability to be objective is refreshing, I seen people pick sides back when Pac and BIG had their thing. It’s madd weird lol, we should be able to enjoy the art without pledging allegiance. Keep up the good work. I’m no psychologist but I’m an author so yo that book idea is dope holla at ya boy and I’ll get down with you on it lol
You already hit the nail. It’s the same fan stuff as akways, but the internet amplifies it. Especially since you can be whoever you want on here. Enjoyable video, good shit.
@@RobMarkman aye not trying to keep you commenting on here, but I did have some thoughts on the African homie and him getting attacked for it.. and I just have to say.. that’s not just a hip hop thing, lately all us blacks of different backgrounds are becoming even more divided.. it really does sucks that prejudice is becoming principal.
I'm currently working on an I/O psychology degree for undergrad, and did some research on parasocial relationships back in community college. During the pandemic I noticed that the attatchment some people have to certain celebrities got much more intense due to that isolation. For some people it may have been a positive way to find a community or culture that they felt they belonged to, and as a temporary stop-gap for a lack of social interaction it could be fine. But, for some people they became obsessed and their entire identity got wrapped up in some particular celebrities' online personas, which likely leads to what we've seen in these fans opinions on these rap beefs. Love your videos by the way!
Thank you for the comment. You may be the one to really lead us into understanding these parasocial relationships. This is great perspective, I appreciate you
Real talk bro thats why your videos and coverage is so refreshing. I think this battle transcended hiphop so a lot of different people chimed in including the gossip channels and online detectives and that is what is wack to me. Until allegations are proven true this is just sport and dot played his angles way more effectively imo. Drake still did his thing though and we gotta give him credit for going up to bat but that is just my two cents
You gotta remember that a lot of what you see on social media, especially those willing to argue, typically tend to be on the extreme side of perspectives (As I listen I've noticed you are addressing this but I'm still sending the comment lol). Things have been trending this way in social media in pretty much every subject/genre. It has made it a pretty toxic environment for discourse. Fortunately, I think "in the real world" things are a bit more normal.
In fact, as a kendrick fan a lot of the discourse I've been seeing surrounding him makes me roll my eyes a bit. Ironically since Mr. Morale the perception of him as the Savior of hip hop/black culture has only increased in spite of his attempts to shut that down on that album. Like you said, it's unfortunate that in the world we live in people tie their identities so closely to these celebrities. My theory is that life right now is difficult for a lot of people so they build these parasocial relationships as a way to feel good about something in an otherwise chaotic world.
@@RobMarkman I really appreciate your unbiased takes for real, while at the same time being able to perfectly articulate your preferences. Especially living abroad in Athens, Greece, your news source and analysis is a big inspiration and a really valuable perspective in understanding more about tthe Culture. Again thank you, much respect and appreciation for your answer
I agree to an extent... Fandom in and of itself is problematic... Im a lover of truth, art and culture... I wouldnt call myself a fan of any particular artist... I might love their work but i dont know any of these people personally to like or dislike them personally. These people that act like they are bestfriends with an artist, or in love with an artist are crazy to me... But i also comprehend feeling so represented by an artist that the connection feels personal... What they create resonates so much with who you are you can feel their essence so it can be personal for you and ultimately that should be the goal of creating art is to reflect the lives and expierinces of your audience... The other side of this is like a jayz where he works to embody the hopes dreams and aspirations of the people where there maybe overlaps of your lived expierence in his past. He really capitalizes off of being the personification of your worldly desires. Having the money status and access to resources so many of us work our entire lives dreaming of and most will never achieve... and many have given up on entirely so they live vicariously through these artists and at least when they listen to the music they can feel like they to have accomplished something... If only in their mind... The music is the soundtrack to our lives its interwoven into our grind when we make love when we celebrate when we fail... It can be inspirational and it can help us through our darkest times and when we feel we have no hope it can let us feel like there is someone who feels our pain has been there is there or made it through... All of this is extremely personal and connects to deeper sociological and political issues... I think that should answer the whats in it for us question... As nas said these are our heroes. And villians That being said my issue with your take and position and the whats in it for you perspective is that it misses a big point... Culture... Whats in it for you is a very selfish and individualized perspective. for me Its not about me. Tupac is one of my favorite all time artists... Not because he had the best flow the best rhymes the grestest club hits or any of that shit its what he represented for the culture the work he put in to carry on tradition.. the black aethtic and politics and expierences he wove not only in his music but his life... From his first song on his first album he let you know he was representing the voice of what it was to be a young black male in america... The history the world view.. the culture good and bad right and wrong he understood his music was bigger than him... Hip hop was bigger than him... Those who stand for nothing fall for anything... What do you stand for thats bigger than you? To paraphrase tupac what do you bow down to that is greater than yourself... This is not the deification of the artist... Idolizing the artists its principles values its tradition its what is right and what is wrong... And the metrics by which you determine what is good and what is bad.... Now this is present in both kendrick vs drake and to a lesser degree nikki vs meagan. Nikki vs meagan is still industry vs the street... Nikki is a far more talented artist. Meagan in many ways is hand picked and backed by some powerful people in the industry... They both are industry to a degree... And they both represent the streets to a degree... From my perspective they both are kinda the same thing at different points of their career... The dialog with this beef is a little more nuanced... But there is a right and wrong... If you ask me... Nikki looked out for meagan did a feature for basically the free and then meagan was used to begin to supplant nikki.. she then sides with her enemies... I dont have a dog in that race... If were asking who best represents the culture id say rapsody.. if were asking whose more damaging to the culture id say alot of the things in meagans music lifestyle and attitude are problematic But with drake and kendrick the dichotomy is much clearer... This battle more so than any in history in my opinion is industry vs culture... Drake is sn industry plant and has been pushed and backed by powerful people from day 1... Its no accident he ends up on young money with a co-sign from the arguably biggest artist of that time lil wayne... Drake has never talked about anything of substance ever. He has relentlessly force fed us party and bullshit music sex drugs and rock and roll... He has the subject matter of a toddler... Hes violated several of the tenants of hip hop since he arrived on the scene but because he embodies the american wet dream(ironically being a canadian and coming from a pretty upper middle class back ground) he has managed to force his way into the culture... The ghost writers and endless features reek of industry plant... The image of what drake is, is s complete fabrication... While Kendrick is an organic artist... who represnts the culture... His music contains real life lessons and expierences... Morals values and principles... He embodies hip hop not just as a fan but a practioner... He lives by the hip hop code... What is at stake is the future if hip hop... Are we going to stay in this endless loop of meaningless fabricated made to order hits... Or authentic artists and creators who make timeless music that speaks to the soul of the black expierence... As scarface said a side of society we dont see on tv... The booty shaking club anthems and love songs are cool... Its not representative of peoples real life... It speaks nothing to the lives and pain of young black youth... Its just entertainment a distraction from the pain and struggle of real life... Its not art... And that is why this matters.. that is why this is bigger than what you get out of it... I personally am tired of the rap and bullshit... Where the wack nigga taking the loot and relooping it... Im from the school of rakim rza dmx scarface icecube dead prez mos def that rugged gritty reflection of authentic black expierence that trancends black culture and relates to all people that people can feel... And also shows our humanity our strength... Our culture the thing that made people fall in love with our voice... I hate that commercialized nonsense that often seeks to profit from our weaknesses and to often shows black people in the worst light and actively destroys our image i dont care if its drake or drill thot or twerk music all that shits cool and it is part of black life to a degree and the party and bullshit music has a place but for far too long there has been an inbalance hopefully this battle inspires young and upcoming artist to see the value in thier culture in being authentic and creating great music and not microwave tik tok dance anthems all the damn time....thats what is in it for me... Reclaiming our voice and taking hip hop back to the people... Because offers a way out a way forward a way to be somebody it has saved lives as lupe said hip hop saved my life
This reminds me of the never ending MJ/Prince "beef". If you a fan of both (like me) you end up being caught in the middle between stans who sh*t on the other artist to prop their guy up, meanwhile you rocking with both and enjoying the music lol
Like how can you not enjoy MJ or not enjoy Prince?! Maaaaaaaaaan both those guys are absolute legends. You can have a favorite for sure, one you prefer, but to the point that you trash one is nuts. I’ll be honest, i don’t see that AS much on social media when it comes to those too. Could just be my timeline tho
I'm 38 years old and I've noticed that the younger generation aren't being taught to think critically. This beef really exposed the dangers of parasocial relationships with artists.
Yeah i think social media amplifies it, so in that way it’s a generational think. But look at Mark David Chapman who killed John Lennon. He was a Beatles fan, clearly he had a deeper mental thing going on than just being a super fan. Thats an extreme case. Just today I saw Chris Brown post a video of one of his supposed fans talking about harming his dancers. Again extreme extreme situations but It’s a lot going on.
These rappers brands have become so big that their fan bases look and support them like sports teams. You’re immediate peer group is equivalent a division rival
I'm no expert, but I think with stans, it could be a case of either lack of self identity or a longing for a tribe, where they fit in. Could be both for some. Because they take their fav Celebrities wins and losses as their own, living vicariously thru them. Blurring the lines, making anything that happens, or anything someone says about that Celeb, personal to that Stan. Plus having a group that you can align yourself with makes people that lack a brotherhood/sisterhood or tribe to feel less alone and give you a sense of belonging. Both situations have Natural human desires at the root just fed by the wrong substances
I agree. In some cases, the fan army feels a void, and feeds into a sense of belonging. There’s a part that’s naturally human and then there are the extreme examples that go further than most
Great video as always. I think sadly American culture is moving more and more into an “either or” culture..if you look at politics: gotta be with the right or the left, no middle at all..sports: Can’t appreciate one players greatness without denigrating and comparing it to another ex: LeBron and Jordan…and the same with this battle. People are so blinded by whatever side their on that they can’t sit back and appreciate how great this moment was in Hip Hop history smh
I feel like the technology via social media does so much to amplify that either or culture you speak of. It’s scary if we ever get to the point where we can debate and disagree with nuance
I'm a The Weeknd Stan. I enjoy his music and hold it close to me because I relate the music to my personal life experiences. When he's attacked, it's easy to get offended because it feels like a person is attacking a part of you. It's similar to when C Delores Tucker was attacking hip hop. You felt like she was attacking a part of you and your culture. With that being said, I didn't like Drake dissing The Weeknd. But I didn't take it personal because I know the two had personal issues with each other in real life. And who am I to give commentary on Drake and The Weeknd's personal situation.
Regarding your Fandom question,the way it got here is social media. People are able to say what they want without being face to face,which also means there is no true consequence. With no true consequence,they build this false confidence more and more each time they say something, and it just gets worse and worse. It's one of the biggest cons about social media,everyone has their own opinion, but people will definitely go way over the top and then get some sort of clout on top of it. It's a drug, and so many are addicted to it,it's crazy.
Not like us being “over” would be the great thing to happen because like with ja rule still being asked about 50 and pusha still being asked about Drake the media will make it hard to move on while also making it seem like you need the other artist to stay relevant. It’d be a dream for everyone to move on organically. With that being said though the track is going up for at least the remainder of the summer.
These parasocial relationships are scary. Genuinely don’t understand how people cant have nuanced conversations and be objective about things they dont agree with
Everybody needs to read "Caste" by Isabel Wilkerson. Black and White is an American construct. Isabel writes about a Nigerian born playwright coming to one of her talks and stating, 'You know there are no black people in Africa'. The statement the playwright made stuck with her, and startled her with it's simplicty. All skin folk are not kin folk. I don't agree with weaponizing our differences, especially because of a rap beef but some Africans do have a different mindset then native born Black Americans. Research some of the statements Emmanuel Acho or Burna Boy says about the Black American community. Also, research Afro-pessimist. You, Rob Markman are more Black American, even being of mixed-race, than any African who migrated to the United States in the 20th century. That is why I understood Kendrick was dealing with Drakes culture and not his etnicity.
Thanks for the recommendation. I need more context to really comment, there are obvious differences between our culture here and African culture in Africa. I also have my own personal feelings and experiences based off of my background. These things are harder for me to articulate than my music opinions. But I don’t feel like there is a “more Black” (and I know you said “More Black American” specifically)… I just believe being Black, or being anything in this world is not a monolithic thing. There’s a range of backgrounds, identities and politics across the diaspora. I find myself most interested in where our center is, where our common ground is as people in general.
@@RobMarkman I appreciate the response and your honesty. That is why I tune in. You are bringing something different to this 'medium' and I already see some changes in other channels, borrowing your technique, format or the way you go about your business 🤣.
Unfortunately it’s only going to get worse from here. I believe the fandom has increased due to the internet “mob” mentality and how everyone believes their opinions should be validated.
I wonder sometimes if a lot of this comes from the fact that some of these artist are so big, that they bring in a lot of fans that aren’t students of the genre. The main example historically has been Eminem, who himself is an actual hiphop head and a part of the culture, but who brought in so many non hiphop heads who are in it more for the fandom than the music. The Stans. Drake & Kendrick both have this kind of star power too. Kendrick not only has these fans, but his core audience is more hiphop centric imo, whereas Drake’s core audience is probably much less so. For me, it doesn’t matter who I think won. It matters who the culture think won, which seems undeniably Kendrick right now. When I look through my playlists, every Drake song on it is hiphop drake, that’s it. Authenticity played a huge part in this back & forth. All that said, this has been a great moment for hiphop.
Agree with you on all points here. Not all Drake fans are necessarily Hip-Hop fans as a whole because he covers so much ground musically.. Like they’re just a fan of that artist and then everything revolves around that. Excellent points
Nobody is being objective since this beef started. Lean too far one way and the other side's fan base will attack you. I been very objective but the rest of the world is forcing you to pick sides. I appreciate you making this video very much.
I feel the opposite about the Jay and Nas battle..I think that Take Over is a better battle song then Ether..So I believe that Jay won the battle but I like Nas more then Jay but I love Jay too..To me Jay has gotten so much better to me since the battle...Like you said I love them both..Also I love Kendrick and Drake too..What I love about the game is I can like them All...Like when Drake went at Meek..I love Back to Back but I'm a huge Meek fan since then and I wasn't prior to Back to Back....Yo please talk about where does J-Cole go from the battle...We forget he released a whole project and nobody is talking about is it because the pulled out the battle after he threw a punch..?
Stan culture and sales culture is so sad, especially if you’re just a fan of this hip hop thing. I’m a Kendrick fan 1000%. But this battle ain’t gon stop me from listening or acknowledging drake an all time great. Sucks a lot of hip hop stuff is slowly becoming like politics. Just pick a side and ride non stop
@@RobMarkman lol the analogy don’t hit for me cause I think we should be eating healthy home cooked food the vast majority of the time. I was more so referring to the cultural and ethical aspects of what they represent. IMO, as a grown black man, I’m genuinely off put by most of Drake’s existence (for similar reasons Kendrick outlined)
I can agree, fandoms and stans were the worst part about this battle. Too many biased opinions saturated this battle. The real hip hop fans were not in denial or delusional during this. The real heads will always prevail 💯💯
I agree with everything you speaking on brotha but being from LA I will say this. We really don't like Drake in California like that. You may find few women who are fans or like songs here and there but what K. Dot spoke on is how we viewed and disliked drake for a koo minute now. Most of these Drake bashing vids are probably from us Angelenos..😂 "ITS NOT JUST ME, IM WHAT THE CULTURE FEELING"
Life in 2024 especially in this “social media” era lacks objectivity. Everything gotta be so extreme. Everyone wanna just scream loudest to be seen and heard. It’s a shame. But I’m with you, you can appreciate both artists for what they are. You ain’t always gotta play team this team that.
As a “blog” riding the fence is beneficial for you as it keeps demographics open and picking a side is beneficial to fans as it elevates their connection to the subject. Benefits include monetary opportunities and or emotional and mental enrichment. I don’t see where the confusion is coming from.
I still don't understand why people think Family Matters was that great. It wasn't as much of a self-own as the Heart part 6, but he was already proving Kendrick right. The video especially, with the chains and ring, dude was already calling himself a rap colonizer. He looked desperate, shook and corny. All of his confidence from Push Ups and Taylor Made was ripped out from under him, and you can see it in his movements.
the way companies have trained audiences to identify as fans of products is insidious and does need to be called out more as a comics nerd my first brush with this stuff was with mcu and star wars fandoms. but once u start seeing it u can find that kind of behaviour in allot of spaces parasocial relationships with companies, products celebrities and even content creators there needs to be more discourse on how to manage those kinds of relationships thats healthy.
@@RobMarkman We actually covered something like this on a podcast my boy John and I run called South Bay East. The world has been becoming increasingly more divided, not just in fandoms and hip-hop. Over the last ten years, the number of non fully red and blue states has almost completely diminished in the United States. People have actually started moving to be around more people who are "like them" in terms of belief. I'd have to go back and watch for the exact stats, but it's actually staggering how polarized ar least America has been becoming. It's not just rap.
Its crazy. Its usually never this extreme but hip hop is hiphopping for the first time in a while. Fans are jumping out. Hell even I’m on pages defending Kendrick. Folks are passionate about the artists that affect their lives. Both artists gave reasons to not like the other and fans are the troops
15:28 I blame Twitter for this. Early twitter had LOTS of artist-fan interactions. Often times giving these fanbases/stans validation with a retweet, follow, fave/like. Fans damn near tatting themselves with what follow number they were on their favorite artist’s pages. Nicki, Drake, and The Weeknd fans ran with this. And now we see the aftermath of that spill over to lyrical analysis of tracks.
The fans are fanatics. We’re looking at fans that have had their favourite artistes in their ears giving them “guidance” more so since they could think, these artistes are like prophets or gods to them, the sight or sound or perception of their favourite artistes digital presence gives them a rush and a burst of energy. The message gets to the wrong people and they twist it to any agenda, becomes another division tool.
Kendrick got us to this point with his lyrics. And RU-vid breakdowns. Yeah when he sayin they not like us black folks are gonna assume he talkin bout us. African Americans. Not hard to understand why fans goin crazy like this.
@@inpursuitofexcellence750 its not ppl choose sides all the time. Im sure you have a sports team. or im sure you are voting for trump or biden or whatever ppl choose sides. It its what it is
@@demetriuscollins5470 Nah this is different for me. I like both of these guys and was just looking for a good battle. I’m not a fanatic I enjoy the art. I will give you this I’m a Falcons fan. As much as I hate what Tom Brady did to us in the Super Bowl, I have to tip my cap to Brady’s greatness. I don’t see where either side is willing to do that. We got some amazing groundbreaking music from both sides. The Stans on both sides are too busy throwing 💩 at each other to appreciate what we got. It’s gross in my opinion.
Kendrick Vs. Drake, Superman Vs. Goku, Apple Vs. Android, Coke Vs. Pepsi, Yamaha Vs. Honda, Lebron Vs. Jordan... no one wants to see their favorites lose. There's a difference between Fans and Stans, the latter is incapable of objective thought. Fans don't want to see their favorite artist, team, thing, etc. lose but WILL accept it. Stans can't accept their favorite artist, team, thing, etc lose and will deny it regardless of the objective truth and will make endless excuses.
@RobMarkman as humans it's difficult for us to be objective when it comes to the things we love. And, as a result, middle ground is hard to find for most people when it comes to fandom.
Can’t even have a healthy, logical conversation either way. I was waiting for this battle and hoped it stayed bars and lyrics. It has turned into something else. It’s not fun at all.
Watching these fan bases beefing is exhausting. As a fan, it’s not my purpose to inauthentically loop albums to help streaming numbers or to help my favorite artists out chart other artists. Or to buy every version of a song or album just to prove with numbers, my choice is the best. It’s my purpose to enjoy the music and buy records and songs I love. I wonder if it gives people some sort of validation or what type of self worth they are trying to gain by being fanatical like this, so much that they have to go at other people on social media. If a song or album is great, let the music speak for itself. As far as this battle, my purpose was to listen. The music spoke for itself and Kendrick in fact did win, and that’s it. We don’t need all this other bs.
On a professional level, like yourself, it matters to NOT sway either way. But as a casual and hard core fans, it's all we have. Like rooting for your favorite sports team. You may think it was a good game and your team lost, but you're gonna get mad. If your team wins though?!! It hits different. I agree there are some extreme fans that take it too far, but at the end of it all, we all have our opinions. Not to mention it's Art as well, which is subjective. Drake has slaps, quotables in damn near Everything he drops, but he's an entertaininer. Maybe he writes, maybe he doesn't, that will always be questioned. But Kdot, he's the real deal and he gets the W overall for me. Respect your channel bro! Not a K Stan here. I'm from Southern Cali, but also a father and husband, then a hip hop fan. ❤
Standom is a real issue. One of the things that made this battle so extreme is standom bleeding into the media space. I seen Ak, Rory n Mal use their large platforms to spread lies in favor of Drake. Been a hip hop fan for 30+ years and never seen that before.
Well Media has changed too. I don’t believe that any of the guys you mention come from a traditional media background. There are things that I learned while writing for print magazines and newspapers that inform how i move even today. I don’t think the players in new media feel as much of a connection to those things, and I don’t know that they pretend to either. But yeah i agree with you. And also that i haven’t seen anything quite like this in all my years
@@RobMarkman excellent point. Sometimes I forget that the new media aren’t true journalists. And that folks like you and Elliott and a rare breed nowadays.
Didn’t listen to Ja a lot back in that time (story to tell was dope, holla holla etc.) but 50 mixtapes were our thing and no one could listen to Ja after that, Fifty exposed him. On the west coast it was the same with Kurupt and DMX. People liked X on the WC before “Callin Out Names” came out but after that record came out you were a buster on the west coast if you still listened to X. He’s a Goat but battles are crazy and this reminds me of that. You prolly remember what Tacoma was like when Kurupt came out with that record lol S/O Rob good lookin out u doing real work. 🫡
Meme culture will forever be a thing. Even in the Kendrick & Drake battle. A.I. is only making the Internet a lot more interesting with now voiceovers of this kinda content.
@@RobMarkman you’re right. I think that the more advanced that it gets, we will have to make some form of new digital infringement law about the use of it.
The wild disrespect some of these super fans have exhibited in the discourse is mad flagrant, people got too comfortable saying things that would merit shooting the fade over. Made the battle not fun or even hip-hop anymore 😢
damn thanks for being real, even mentioning the democrat part could see you struggling on whether you should, but your honesty brings this stuff to a different level we ain't usually getting. Thank you brother🙏
Yeah. I dunno, me personally, I can’t vote for Trump, but I’d be lying if I said I’m 100% on board with Biden. And there’s no way that I sit this one out. The process is to important IMO … thanks for the conversation
This would be a question for some of your favorite rappers and commentators as well. 50 Cent for example has been pretty biased in this beef. He’s made it crystal clear he’s sided with Drake. For the west coast rappers, it’s obvious they have to ride with the west coast rapper but for a guy from NY🤔
I don’t know that i let 50’s opinion affect my thoughts on anything. And i love Fif. But it’s clear that he marches to the beat of his own drum. I don’t go to 50 looking for everything to make sense
The difference is I never really liked drake. His popularity has been annoying me since 2011 because he's the most overrated rapper ever in my opinion. I can acknowledge that he rapped hard during this battle but it's so satisfying to finally see him put in his place
I can admit that I'm biased towards Kendrick. I'm from LA/Inglewood and lived through the East coast vs West coast situation. I'm 40 years old and I just connect with Kendrick's music. I do like a lot of Drake's music. My only issue recently was with is latest album. Hearing Drake still rap about issues with women he's involved with that are in their 20's was just off putting to me. I think this situation can help rebuild Drake's image or change the focus of his music (assuming that's what he wants to do).
I personally don’t DO NOT give a damn about Kendrick Lamar. He’s been a representative of my values for a long time. But the minute he comes off as unauthentic he is out! Although my loyalties are to the culture, not the artist. I cannot stand by as we allow Young Money to flourish for another ten years. RU-vid personalities and podcasts beg for our comments then complain. Drake is at the top. Before him it was jayz. Jay set the mold for the 2010s. Drake is setting the mold for the 20s. Drake is responsible for rappers feeling like bars culture and authenticity is not important. So yeah, we’re wildn out!! Because rap is the last African American genre that we have our hands in. We invented everything. But there’s always Elvis who comes in and steals from Muddy Waters! In the ghettos where this genre is born YOU DO HAVE TO PICK A SIDE!! And stay there! If you can’t understand the importance of picking side. Then this ain’t your culture. Pimps, Dealers, & hustlers. Or Activists, Organizers, & Entrepreneurs. A shooting in the gods sends a stray to a child. & you still want to buy drugs from the hustlers but claim your for progress. Fuck that. It’s personal for us! Yall just want to hear insults. Kendrick Will reign supreme for the 20s. He will set the example. And anybody listening to Drake , knowing he’s using your support as fuel to get him back to dominating the game along with Nicki & Wayne. I’m on your ass! It ain’t about Kendrick, Meek Mill, Common, or Pusha T! It’s about them! They gotta stop! Drake is a pop icon. He will be a millionaire forever. God bless him. But we’ve had enough!!!!!!!! Let’s do it for our children..
As a barb I have a real question everyone has a fanbase is it because Nicki is a huge artist that her fanbase has a microscope on it?? Because a lot of artist have fanbases but none of there tweets or posts hardly ever get discussed you bought up Nicki and Megan fans going back n forth but never bought up Megan fans tweets or posts.these are just my thoughts.
Nah i didn’t bring up Megan fan tweets you’re right. My basic point was all these fan armies got some mess with em. And more so than the specific artist that the base is tied to, my questions are more rooted in what causes these type of things across the board
Eminem Stans dont look bad now... 😅 I never ever liked drake. Listened to one song - "from the bottom" not sure about title. "Push ups" is a great track, can't deny that. Smooth flow, smart bars. 8/10. 4 stars out of 5. Euphoria is a best track , by far in my opinion. 6 - 16 in a L.A second 🕺 For me Not like us , is a worst of the bunch from Dot. I even prefer Meet the grahams. Incredible storytelling, atmosphere. Art 😎
I default at your position for the most part. I’m a huge Kendrick fan. I was more of a Drake fan as well in the past, but I’ve slowly started to respect him less and less over the years. I think a lot of it for me is being a MC at heart, I hate how he changed the standard perception of hip hop. I can only hear so many stolen song or reference tracks stories. To me he has a permanent asterisk in any hip hop debate. I hate how it’s so accepted to use ghost writers because of the pop fans that crossed over with him having such a huge voice. There is validity to the colonizer angle if we’re being honest too. He doesn’t really respect black American culture in general. I hate how he dissed Michael Jackson after riding his coattails for so long. He’s kind’ve the on the other end of everything I passionately stand for, so that kind’ve fuels me to torment his fans. Especially the ones who try and dictate the hip hop standards that they know nothing about.
