I was at the game and singing the anthem with a full stadium of proud South Africans 🇿🇦 might have been the best moment of my life. It was truly incredible and a great 👍 first test match experience for me! 🎉
Back "in the heyday" Mike Tyson wasn't fighting at the MGM Grand. His fights were at, the now shutdown, Trump on the boardwalk in Atlantic City in New Jersey.
@murrayterwin Also love the show. Two great rugby minds debating topics. No biased feelings towards either but I tend to agree more with Zels on the playing of the Springboks game at the moment because he is a rugby coach at a high level, and in my opinion has good insight into styles of play. Keo is a well respected Rugby journalist so also has great insight in the game. So happy Springboks on winning streak.
I 100% agree with Zels, Yeah it is a massive point why go away from our winning formula and DNA to try and play flashy, this isn’t Currie Cup or club games. This is test matches it isn’t meant to be flashy it’s meant to be clinical and efficient I agree we should have put 20 points differential. The only reason I think and can justify is maybe Rassie is preparing for WR law changes which we do see happening to speed up the game, to be fair then we don’t have much of a choice then. And we have to be prepared. Or to develop all the skill sets not just crash ball
Not the same thing or sport but keeping the analogy, every now and then Tyson would come across another fighter who could throw punches just as hard as him. Be aggressive just like him. And he would lose. Thats why Mike is trying to box a little differently to make him a more all round fighter. This is more what the Boks is trying to do in the boxing analogy
Hi Keo and Zels. I totally agree with you Zels. The poorest I have seen the Boks play for a long time.First half had me almost crying with frustration. Bongi missing four linout throws. Penalty after penalty for infringements in the breakdown [ All Blacks getting there first and forcing Bok to illegally hold on. Handling errors. Missed kicks. Penalies [ 14 in all I think ]. I am 81 years old and have been an ardent Bok supporter since I was a child in the 1950's. Yes, we won the world cup, but by one point in the last three games of the series. We recently drew the Irish series. We have beaten the AB's in the last two weeks by a whisker coming from behind. This is agreat Bok side, but by golly mate, they are winning aginst the top teams by very close margins which so easily could have been losses for us starting with the World Cup quarter final. Best wishes from George and thanks for great rugby commentary and entertaining show.
You must understand that the Boks are not nearly streets ahead of France, Ireland and New Zealand. These teams are in the same league. Take the one point wins. It's great to be a Bok supporter if beating the All Blacks included watching the Springboks play "their poorest" in a long time.
Boks may have had a lot of handling errors playing expansive rugby. But I remember the days when they made handling errors picking driving and kicking. Watching Sasha walk through the AB defence makes it all worthwhile for me. Oh, and the win 👍
NZ was forced to play with 14 men due to pressure. Penalty after penalty took its toll and that was all due to pressure. So who is Lomax again? Dont believe the hype. He had a good couple of games. Thats it. So yeah, Twickenham is the blueprint
As an AB fan, it can get insufferable listening to pro opposition podcasts after a loss.. that’s what it’s like listening to northern hemisphere podcasts but not pro Bokke podcasts.. even after feeling kak after a loss, you guys are truly the old foe with mutual respect even after thumping us.. keep it up.. love your work.. enjoy this generational team.. we’re watching greatness continue to unfold.. cherish it
Agree Cape Town really showed off. Put up one hell of a show. Logistically flawless. Parked at Canal Walk. The My City bus gees was awesome. What a game. A battle for the ages. Think I must have been behind you Keo. Was section 109. Row 25.
The same can be said for Johannesburg flow in from bots, used my city buses. Awesome day well spent enjoyed the beer park along the way with my 5 liters of Klips and Cola. Next i want to do the Cape town experience 2026 here we come, Boks by 10 ha ha
What would Zels say to the notion that law changes risk making the traditional Boks game less and less effective heading into 2027 and that Rassie is building a law-change-proof winning squad?
@@Cameron_JK quite, but the point I'm making perhaps inelegantly is that law changes might limit the scope for the power rugby of the typical Springbok sort and that Rassie is setting up a squad that could make the best of any law change.quite, but the point I'm making perhaps inelegantly is that law changes might limit the scope for the power rugby of the typical Springbok sort and that Rassie is setting up a squad that could make the best of any law change.
As an Irishman, i thought the Boks should win both Tests handily. They kept giving NZ chance after chance and were lucky in both Tests to win . You must earn the right to go wide . The Bok pack is formidable yet the ball was spread wide allowing NZ to turn over so much ball. Play to your strengths to crush the opposition and the wide opportunities will come . I'm with Zel on this . These should have been crushing victories. The Bok scrum was not at its best and the line out malfunctioned. A lot to work on
"As an Irishman" God one would say ya'll are world champions the way yall talk. This NZ side beat the Irish in the world cup semis, never underestimate these guys
@@ZiphoWophula-mb5wihe is saying you should have won by more and he isn’t wrong. Watching that game the boks made a lot of mistakes but New Zealand in test 2 offered nothing in the back line. As for Ireland nobody was beating new zealand in that QF they made zero mistakes it was a masterclass one off performance.
I think Zelim forgets how many games we lost playing the bok way, there's a reason that 2009 team only managed to maintain that form for the year, the demands of that styles catch up on the boks too. Maybe the balance hasn't been spot on between the old ways and new attacking style, but rather try now, than bemoan the fact that we tried nothing new and fail at the next world cup. If nothing else, we'll have answers
Once again, Zels has taken the words out of my mouth. These should be massive, not narrow victories. He is the only pundit with this perspective and I respect it.
Sure, but this perspective ignores the facts. Rugby popularity is in decline globally, which means its monetary value is declining. This is why the Boks are now part owned by a US hedge fund (other unions are following suit) and why World Rugby keeps tweaking the rules to make the game faster. The more popularity declines, the the tighter that inflexion point is going to become. Either we rebel against this very obvious trend and eventually get overtaken and left behind, or we get out ahead of it.
And that's a dream to think we should be beating New Zealand by massive margins, we beat them by 1 point in the world cup final and they were a man down for most that game.
Yes should have been if we weren’t playing new caps and trying out different playing style courtesy of our new attacking coach. The Boks are experimenting still not playing their old game so yeah. We won narrow or not
Zels might be an "expert" but I don't agree. We have shown that we can revert to our old style at any time in the game. Having more styles of play is better than having 1 style only. We have players suited for Tony Ball and we have players for our traditional style. The Springboks were never a team for record 100 point win because a 120-0 win and a 40-20 win has the same results. We have always experimented during World Cups and to experiment and win cups and break records, is a wow
I don’t get why the bigger picture is hard to understand here. Objectives are clear: - Build player depth and experience (50 man rotational side). - Expand playing style and develop approach to the game (we have the best defence. Time to build the attack). - Win games and trophies in between world cups. We are hitting literally every mark and just beat our arch rivals for 2 consecutive weekends. Its the ABs and that should never ever be under estimated. We are well on the way to being and peaking exactly when we should. And have this team become immortals by winning the repeat 3peat. Rassie knows what he is doing and we should all admire this golden age of Springbok rugby and soak in the glory. Times change and we will not always be the best in the world the way we are now.
Exactly, we're building massive depth, the squad is going to be insane by 2027. Dominating against the other SH sides, 4 wins in a row against NZ and Aus, 6+ against Arg. It's a similar story against Wales, England, Scotland. I'd love for the Boks to build that same dominance against France and Ireland as well.
My unpopular take: I rate Razor will not make the next world cup. The NZ public are not ready for a rebuild. Quite similar to Man United in the Premier league. There's more pain coming for the ABs in my view.
How is Razor rebuilding? They had almost 300 more caps than the boks last week -He's not done one new innovative thing . His 9 10 does not work but he is persisting with it ......I'm not seeing him last past 2025
My Fav moment was Kolisi Scoring and the lineout steal to end the game. Stadium errupted wow what a feeling to be there. My first time watching the Boks live and could't have asked for a better experience!
The result means so much for the Bok players and Management. They have found a recipe for beating the old foe. Also building constantly towards 2027 WC.
Need to keep reminding Zels, we could have lost by 3 to France in that QF and been home watching the SF on tv. This team has to evolve their game plan. If you not moving forward, you going backwards. It doesn’t have to be all out attack but the hybrid model makes us unpredictable and dangerous.
The anthem was the moment for me. I am a super proud South African and this display of unity at Cape Town stadium gave me so much hope for our countries future and potential across the board. The whole show was a classy spectacle. Congratulations to all involved.
Another week, another balanced approach to reality. This is a massive advertisement for journalism yet again. I'm tempted to buy an SA Rugby magazine, paperback - imagine, thanks to this podcast. Keo is a library of knowledge and happy that a platform like YT allows the stories we didn't know about being shared.
Browns influence in that game can best be seen in two parts of that game, one was the build up to Siya's try, if you watch where that comes from the boks have the ball originally in their own half, they don't start a game of kick tennis, they keep it in hand and make all that ground, eventually leading to the score, there is also no question the Boks conversion rate in the 22 is WAY better than it has been in the last few years, you may say its just old fashioned smash and charge, but its because of this new variety in the Boks game that makes it more difficult for the opposition to deal with it, a few years ago we'd just go nowhere then get turned over.
Yesterday I just couldn’t function, keeping an eye on your video. It was an agonising wait. It is worth the wait, well done fellows for another great content.
Zels. Tony ball got us sweeping up field here and there. Got us knocking on and showing we need skills work. The truth is whether it’s perfect yet or still a work in progress is not the point. The point is we wiped Aus and NZ twice each and our best championship in 15 years. On that alone … don’t touch it. Koppe-stamp ruggers will always have its place. But we need to expand … and have … and got results. Just because we needed old school try’s doesn’t mean the rest was unnecessary. It could well have gotten us in position to do so and make history. Maybe they can’t handle the power plays because they’ve been run rugged. Dont mess with it … rassie has the right to do this
I would trust Rassie’s vision before trusting Zels. The boks must evolve. He forgets we only just won the World Cup by one point playing “bok stump kar rugby”. Wait till tony ball’s plan clicks.
Zels giving the same vibe as Rassie after that Ireland World Cup game - makes me feel like even I’m in the moeilikheid and have to think about whether I am efficient enough in life.
I don't agree with Zels. The days of full spectrum forward dominance by the Boks is a thing of the past. The new laws and the blooding of new young talent requires a more expansive game involving a multiphase attacking approach where retention of possession is vital. SA has exceptional young talent with tons of pace and handling skills to successfully implement the new expansive RE and Tony Brown style of rugby. The following facts disprove Zels direct approach: 1)The Boks scrums are no longer totally dominant 2)Our major opponents the AB's, Ireland, France and England have all bulked up their forwards especially in the second and back rows 3)Our new approach has resulted in territorial and possession advantage which the Boks hardly ever enjoyed under their previous approach and single point victories 4) The Boks territorial and possession advantage under our new expansive game has resulted in a very favourable penalty count in their favour which was extremely rare under their old style 5) The Bok new expansive game is more attractive and marketable and is in line with route that the powers that be want rugby to go.
Agree 100% with Zels. TB isn't doing it for our attack. We made NZ look better than they were with these narrow come from behind wins. I just hope against Argentina with their strong scrum and slick handling we don't come up short.
Zels : Agreed. Our Line-Outs were a mess ! What IS frustrating is how opponents are allowed to get back into the game due to soft; basic errors; let alone tackles missed ! Attention required to rectumfy such undeserved give-aways .... ! 🤔🤙✊️👊💫💥🏉🇿🇦
Think the new style we play is exciting and an obvious place for it. After all we never were that great at being innovative in the backline and making tries and attacking play a danger. However my thoughts are this new style should not be at the expense of direct play when necessary, and still a match winner. Perhaps a balance between the two styles is still being developed. I dont think we should replace our strong direct play, the new style we play should compliment and be another strength that we previously never had. As for team spirit and all for one - one for all... Springbok team is fantastic, an inspiration.
Zels you are spot on with every comment just a great summary of the game plan at the moment, I can feel and hear your irritation with this new style I'm 100% with you sometimes I just feel some of the guys is not sure their roll at the moment. I agree this will benefit us down the line but we are not managing our basics set-ups right now. Our breakdown 's is terrible at the moment our lineouts is not working I will say this had we played Ireland these two games I think we would have lost. My opium lets play territory first and then through the ball around. Forwards first do their thing upfront and leave the backs to play and through the ball around, I don't want to particular see the best player in the world at the moment Peter S du Toit running around on the wing. Great show guys thank you.
I've got a great movie, "The Zels Conspiracy": (in your best Ricky voice) "A rouge double agent coach (Tony Brown played by Owen Wilson) on the secret mission to sabotage the Boks game plan but has a sly detective is determined to expose him (Zels played by Derek Zoolander)".... a certain Boks office hit!
Zels has a tendancy of underestimating opponents or just repeating whatever's in vogue for arm chair experts. Last year he said "the springbok forwards are gonna mangle the irish forwards they don't have the pack to stand up to us"... and then they had parity with us and James Lowe famously lifts and tackles Eben. Ellis Park was fozzie's imposters that we should beat with a record score... then we lose it. Rassie knows better Zels, I trust his vision. In 2018 nobody thought our Rush D leaving space outside would work cause we leaked all those tries against England. Now its the best D in the world. In 2018 everybody thought Rassie playing with his bench cost us the match against the ABs at Loftus. Now we have the bomb squad. You don't know what Rassie knows. Let him cook. This isn't 2009 or 2013 or 2016, we have a coach this time that looks at all the data and plans ahead.
I like how grounded Zelim is. It's nice and sobering. It gives you a good idea how well the transition phase is because a lot of these Bok legends are in the winter of their careers, and 2027 could be a lot further away for them than we realise.
Great show as always guys, love the fact that you both enjoy talking rugby and having a laugh. Pity you couldn't get Tim from Eggchasers on your show. keep up the great show.
We need to find a balance between our DNA style of play and the Tony Brown style, these 50/50 offloads and passes take away from us being clinical. We were a held up maul and 2 drop goals away from an iconic run, I hope the team travelling to Argentina do the business and we go unbeaten this season. Speaking of travelling, I hope PSTD is gona be sent home to rest, we'll see him in MP! Give that man a rest
It was a fantastic atmosphere, very different from the Ellis Park experience but amazing nonetheless! We enjoyed the game and can’t wait to watch it live again 👊
I agree with Zels. As a Kiwi supporter I wasn't really worried about that game until the last 20 when we sort of fell apart. The Boks looked clunky when they ran the ball and weren't as physically dominant at the breakdown like they usually are. I felt most AB teams of the past would've beaten those Boks. But congrats to the Boks, they deserved to win in the end.
I can see why the Bokke boys are so happy. NZ won in SA in 2008 2010 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 and 2017. And in the second match of 2022. That’s a decent record. The Boks picked up two world cups in that period, we got two as well. Overall still 61-42 to the Darkness. And we will be back. 0:02
I dunno zels, I watched that game again and in the first half we went route 1 quite often, 1 pass crash ball to the forwards, always hitting the lead runner, when we started putting phases together. I think we did earn the right to go wide, we just made errors when we did. 2nd half we adjusted and started using dummy runners and passing out the back and it paid off, because we had laid that groundwork in the first half. I think we saw more of a balance this last game, I got a glimpse of what we're building towards
The two of you Guyz are quite on TOP FORM today, are you not, HEY⁉️⁉️ Like it a lot (I’ve also got headaches Zels ~ i do NOT understand comfortably the Bokke’s Game right now…the basic Bok pattern is nowhere to be seen❓) Anyway, ‘BOKKE BY TEN’ sounds safe and fair for the moment (do NOT underestimate the Los Pumas!) I can agree with you Zels, a golden ‘thumping chance’ gone… But the upshot is, Rassie and Tony are both getting what they want…and you are right, Rassie is now closer to a 40man Squad than before, en route to 50. Maybe we should all have patience with the RISK involved in favour of aiming at RWC 2027, however hard and difficult…❓ Again, you Manne had a helluva lekker vibe today in your Studio > excellent‼️ Until nxt time Thanks for your energy and flightfooted rugby mental jiving today. GREAT fun‼️💫🥂 beste 🪖
Very nice game i enjoy it but we could've score 1 more try towards the end if Cheslyn did not call the ball to try a drop goal cz we were so close to the line
Yeah, the man is very skillful but he did it twice in the WC final, missed. I really wish he'd stop doing that maybe domestically he has I've never seen it internationally, just keep it at the silky feet.
Another thing how this Boks team is defying things..Zels said tge Freedom Cup is not one to drink out of...Bongi drank some beer out of it in the locker
I hear you Zels. I dont think the plan is to abandon our DNA but rather to add a new string to our bow. It makes us less predictable and maybe a bit harder to play against. I agree the NZ front row is going to get good.
Great show gents, couldnt agree more with Zels’ analysis and insight. We can’t rest on our laurels or underestimate Los Pumas. The team definitely isn’t the finished product by any means, but how fortunate are we to be witnessing this golden age of Springbok rugby? 🇿🇦🏉💥💪🏻
Zels, the Boks are evolving. You are essentially wanting the Boks to go back to being predictable. That's not the Boks any longer. To be able to change our game plan and still win is commendable. So patience is required here, Zels. Love your show guys!
Just from watching on tv, the atmosphere in Cape Town looked like the best yet of the home games this season. Sad to see Newlands go, but the atmosphere is certainly strong at this ground
There is a fine line between genius and crazy. I think that this addition/evolution will either find it's balance and create an unmatched beast akin to the 2011-15 ABs, or will disjoint our attack and defence, and we'll need to restructure in the next cycle. It's essentially what Allister was trying.
Not sure about Zel’s view, however, agree that our experienced players look a bit out of place in the fast ball set pieces. But if they can get it together, awe! Then it will be a symphony to behold.
Springboks have played Gameplan A (and done it extremely well) for 6 years. In the post-WC year, they're doing 2 things: developing Gameplan B , and developing new talent (SFM, Moodie, Fassi, Grant W, Elrigh Louw, Nortje, Steenekamp etc). As long as the new talent learns both Gameplan B and Gameplan A - we're all good!
They need to organize an end of year fixture against Ireland at Twickenham. It’s obviously highly profitable for the franchises and exhibition of the game, Otherwise it looks like we will only play them again next year, November 25.
As always, some great chat. Glass half empty Zels makes some good points... But he is looking at these games, and all games, like must win WC matches. As in must win knock out, beat them up, grind them down matches. Agree we are playing outside our status quo approach. There is more happening behind the scenes here i think. Rassie is looking for a squad of 50 player's. He is looking at how the operate under different circumstances, and in different combinations. Agree the clunky play and reduce efficiency in play is concerning. But this will improve as they refine what they want to do. Agree that no.9 is looking less impactful without Faf. But even Faf looks out of it from time to time.
Law changes and work rugby drive to get ball more in play is what rassie is preparing us for I appreciate what tonyball can offer we just need to get accurate and lift our skill level
I Love Where The Team Is Heading ,After The Next World Cup We Can Say Jaaa We Beat You In Your Own Game,But 1 Can Hear What Zel Is Saying. . .Beat Them 50 - 0 Now While We're At It
This Bok team will be truely great if they can roll into Eden Park and be the team to break that All Black fortress. That will elevate them into the pantheon great echelons, the ‘09 Boks echelons. But still to be a Bok supporter is finally enjoyable and I’m so grateful to be experiencing this in my life time.. FINALLY! 😂
There are a few things the same vs 2009 and a few things different. These days two squads is the goal, analysis is next level (and application) etc. The key for coaches is to make sure they aren't predictable. Rassie knows this, I think. In a WC, crunch game, it would be nice for us to go into a game and the opposition have no idea what Bok team will show up. Tight, playing tony ball or a combination.
We are living with the favorites tag now and trying to set ourselves up for a longer stretch than McCaw's All Blacks. We have to gamble now while we have a union , fans and team that is buying into the system 100%... When this all comes out at the end with Siya lifting the World cup in Australia then we South Africa would have written the best movie ever... ❤❤❤
Never seen someone so depressed about winning 4 in row against AB's. The WC final we played "efficient" rugby as you call it. We never looked like scoring a try and were lucky to win the WC. Now we are the team looking like scoring all the the tries and not there yet in finishing but that will come. We are way more threatening now than we have been in the last 4 years. I am loving the way they are playing and the chances they are taking. Tony ball is the way forward. Putting the rugby world on notice....
Keo, please pull up some details from the archives. So the freedom cup was played for 19 times with AB's taking 16 and SA 3. This is apparently a bit of a joke amongst some AB fans, bit would like to know since the rules state the cup holder doesn't have to win both tests to keep cup, I would like to know how many times have AB's won both games to keep cup instead of only 1. Think it will bring a little perspective and could it mean the cup would stay in RSA for longer...? Would love to here what details you can pick up on those stats. Thanks
Speaking about building depth- Eben is hard to replace. We need a big strong enforcer coming through. Nicolaas Jansa VR is a monster in France. We need him in the system sooner rather than later.
Although excellent points made by Zels, he also half contradicts himself. If teams can withstand the juggernaut forward pack and pretty much neutralise our 'advantage', whereto from there. We've seen it in the past where similar maybe even better forward packs had been neutralised and we had nothing else. So you think its coincidence that all off a sudden our strikerate bashing it up with pick and go or one out passes close to the line have increased sihnificantly since Tony Brown arrived? We used to do that all the time with miniscule success. Twickenham, pool match against Ireland comes to mind. Teams have to fan out more, leaving bigger gaps to run at. So, I agree with Zels to an extent but also can see we need more on attack. I said during the game we're getting killed at the breakdown because of this new width based gameplan. And it is amazing to get this type of exposure to where we're not at our best or improvements should be made, and still win. I got no doubt Rassie and Tony will look at our breakdown work and make the necessary adjustments. Patience bro Edit: The one thing that I'm a bit confused about is the ball carrier being aware of keeping the ball alive with offloads and whatnot but the supporting players are focused on the cleanout? If we are to play this way and everyone is buying in, why dont we expect the offload? This, to me, plays a large part in our ineffieciency and lack of continuity at times
I am so glad Zels is not a coach or anywhere near the springboks system , the man is negative and not innovative if you think how we played in the last world cup will win the next world cup , you got jokes , the current springboks building blocks is on the right track will be unstoppable
I agree 100% with Zels. I was wondering what we were doing wrong and he just unpacked it for me - why we were getting beaten at the breakdowns. Personally, I can't see how the game has changed so much to warrant a shift away from Springbok DNA. Our old game plan was not boring - unless you think that 2019 World Cup Mapimpi try is boring. Come the 2027 World Cup, other teams are going to make our much vaunted attacking game look impotent. NZ rugby and Australian rugby are in the state they are in precisely because of the style of rugby we are trying to play. Zels is on the money. When the game plan comes off, it looks great. But when the rush defence is employed players start to look like ballerinas pirouetting all over the field when the aim of rugby is to go straight before going wide. Show me any World Cup final where it is raining tries. World Cup Finals are won by playing good, old fashioned SPRINGBOK rugby.
I agree with Zels these two tests against NZ we should have gone back to our power game and moer them physically Mainly because NZ squad are at their lowest in terms of talent and depth we could have easily won both by 20+ if our game plan had more structure and was more direct These two tests were a missed opportunity to demolish them at their lowest like they did to us in 2017 because we'll never get another opportunity again in future like this
I hear Zels & understand him but surely its worth a go whilst we at the top to try & add to our game? Not overhaul but add. In the end you might find that its Tony who adapts & changes kinda like Eddie Jones. So let's give it a go come RWC we will be clear as to what works doesn't.
One of the hardest things in any sport is consistency, like what more is there for the 2 World Cup winning players to achieve in the coming seasons, they have done it all. I think part of the search for 50 players and the change in tactics is to ensure that those players dont become complacent. that said, Rassie has the luxury of taking risks right now against a New Zealand side that would normally capitalise on all the mistakes that were made over the weekend
I'm with you Zels, this no look pass to no-one ( no-one catches it), is dangerous for us also we lost so many breakdowns ( penalty count against us), I think the players aren't working together so they get caught/isolated at the breakdown, especially if we play expansive , we creating space for the All Blacks.If we played like we played in Twickenham I would of felt much better. We have such potent fast and skillful wingers and great centres , plus flyhalves and scrumhalf. Our pack grinds the opposition down and we must unleash our backs. If our forwards think that they can play like backs , if we play Ireland ,England or France, maybe even Argentina with an expansive game , unfortunately we might lose some.A scenario was with Shalk Burger , athletic , strong , but used to get isolated when he tried to run by himself . Anyway that is my 2 cents worth .
Why dont you both become coaches and apply for the job then you can play your stamp kar rugby, you wont last long in a bok coaching role with that model. sound like the ANC, STUCK IN THE PAST. NO MOVING FORWARD, NO EVOLUTION. NO IDEAS. but thank fuck Rassie and Tony is there, and not you two knobs.
