Kerbal Space Program 2 - A Shameful Situation As Game In Limbo 

im pretty sure it is illegal in the EU with the biggest example being squadron 42 which they had to stop selling a year ago because it had no release date

well it's certainly against Valve's EA rules.

@@moonasha yeah also other game i think a starship - i couldn't remember name but by different company which put game development on hold but yeahj Valve needs address those issues for example removing early access from companies who abuse them or mislead or cause any issues with customer side if they going sue them i would sue take 2 because they failed to be there for early access because radio silence that's reason Valve needs change the way of working of steam early access for example be strict and open and hosent and make everyone involved

At that price too. I bought the original for about £11 as I knew it would be a risk. I did not buy the sequel at £50 as I knew it would be a risk.

The problem is that some game stay in early access for years without updates and still end-up good. It's almost impossible to prove that the studio really do not have the intention to continu it, so it would be really hard to apply the law here. Maybe they take a pause on the dev to finish an other game, which would be moraly questionable but not illegal. If course we know it's not the case, but how could you prove it without using illegaly aquired documents ?

I felt it would be DOA ever since it was announced. KSP became so great because of the mods and KSP2 would have only had a chance if it came with a lot of stuff that was in the KSP1 mods, which it didn't.

Which mods do you have in mind?

They tried to hold the IP hostage over T2 and T2 called their bluff.

Same, I knew it was going south at that very moment.

Same. The sudden and rather odd change of dev teams in the middle of KSP1's lifetime was a massive red flag.

KSP never needed a sequel, with mods it is almost a perfect game. Mod makers are still improving it today. In fact a lot would say the modded graphics in 1 are better than stock 2.

Strange coincidence but I've been using Kerbal lately as a means to overcome a sudden drop in self-confidence. Really does give a sense of "I can do it if I put my mind to it" every time you hit a new milestone.

Well you now know you can do difficult things if you put your mind to it. If you apply the lessons you learned in Kerbal to Real Life. You will go far in life. Best of luck out there.

@@Hebdomad7 thank you, that's very kind

@@UdumbaraMusic it really does, thanks for the kinds words

Worst part is. It's the SUMMER sale and is ONLY 20% off 🙄 feels like a slap in the face to the players and every dev involved imo

Yep, the fact that they are willing to ask for money for this means nobody should ever trust this company again.

I abandoned NBA2K years ago. It's actually a good basketball game, but 2K's lack of interest in the PC community is just too blatant. They never do anything regarding all these cheaters [i recorded unmistakable proof of tons of cheaters back then, reported them including their steam profiles etc --> 0 bans and no anti-cheat to this day] and afaik the current NBA2K is still on last gen when compared to console versions? But do you know what the worst thing is? I never realized Take2 had the rights to KSP2 until they shut down the dev team.. If i had known, i might've been staying away and not getting convinced by ppl like Shadowzone that "For Science! finally made KSP worth it", which made me purchase the game. F 2K, and F those streamers/tubers now acting like they never sold us on KSP2! PS: Mr Ant is not one of those streamers/tubers. I come here and raise my criticism once in a while, so i wanna make clear that he is not included in my little rant.

@@almightyIrie Not gonna lie, KSP is not a traditional franchise that Take2 normally has an interest in. This marriage between the two companies was doomed from the start. They made the offer to buy the company in 2017 and the offer was accepted. You also have to blame Squad for getting in bed with Take2 and naively believing it was going to end well.

how about we just rip their code. its take two their servers aint that secure. host it in a country that dont care. and we can finish it. dead serious when i say their server security aint shit. take two doesnt deserve to have this ip anymore. time we start getting more aggressive with corpos.

I knew the kraken was powerful, didn't know it was trans-dimensional.

​@@12pentaborane always has been.

I for one bow down to our Kraken overlord.

Same , but when i saw the Alpha state of the game sold and its price i didn't bought it . I believed that it was sold at least in an advanced beta state for the price .

Corporate greed, yes, but the developers are not free of blame either. They've dropped the ball hard on this project and showed a hilarious degree of incompetence.

Same here. Devs paid gor t2 bad behavior

Take two doesn’t care and only care when you ring their door bell end of day

The trailer was clearly not a representation of how the game would look, even a blind person could tell that.

People worry way too much about EA yall got like 10 games and mad... anybody speaking against it can go install EGS

I think Nate is getting too much flack for what happened. He knew the major things people wanted and he was passionate and cared about the project a lot. Publisher and higher ups forced recycling old code which horrifically burdened the project which massive amounts of technical debt. The refusal to allow communication between the original dev team was also insane. But yeah... Screw Take 2. They are amongst the industries worst.

@@Hebdomad7 I do think he was in over his head, for being head of the project, that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been good in a different position. Some of it, is his fault and some of it was not his fault and rather the fault of higher ups with overly ambitious plans, unclear goals etc.

​@@Hebdomad7 all projects nate was involved in ended up as fuck ups, i didn't buy ksp2 because i knew what happened to planetary annihilation (other project nate was involved in)

I bet Nate didn't get shafted like the other studio employees either, bet he got a fat severance paycheck from Take Two and was told to shut up about it.

Nate Simpson isn't to blame. He's just the scapegoat. "Well, KSP2 is dead, so let's name the first person we see, whether he had anything to do with it or not." As shadow zone says, Nate was truly involved and wanted to make KSP2 as good as it could be. It's just that some of his decisions to that end -- Early Access, wobbly rockets, etc. were unpopular.

It sure is, but you’d have to be a brain dead moron to buy it with all those negative reviews.

Not only did they leave it, they actively promoted it on the summer sale AFTER the studio was closed down.

Take Two has a pretty ruthless track record unfortunately, money above all /:

A few people in EU have already reported take2 for consumer malpractice.

They've protected themselves by saying the game is still "in development" just doesn't have a studio right now

valve should do something at the very least. The early access system was clearly abused. Developers are supposed to only release a game for early access if they have the intention of completing it. In this case, the intention was only there if it made enough money, and it clearly didn't match 2K's unrealistic expectations. Wow, it sure is surprising that nobody bought an extremely buggy half finished game at full price. I really hope valve does something. Everyone who bought this piece of crap deserves a refund

Sueing them will do nothing its a multibillion dollar corporation with some extremely high paid lawyers and they probably have the judges paid off. Sure they might spend a bit of money defending the lawsuit but to what end reminder they make 3 billion a year off shark cards so the 20 million dollar of so settlement that would co.e from this is less that 1% of take twos yearly income barley a fucking speed bump.

Over promised, under delivered. That even their promo gameplay material had a low framerate was a big red flag.

Which is absolutely ridiculous because the entire POINT of KSP2 was building the game on a better engine so it would have better performance. Right away, I knew this would never work because you can't sell a game that is just a straight upgrade to a earlier game. The market demands a sequel be something "new" and "different". Even remasters commonly add new stuff or radically alter the graphics style to be more modern rather than cleaning up and smoothing over the older game.

​@@Yonkage-ik5qbthey promised colonies and interstellar stuff, that would have been really new.

Apparently they were basically pumping money into a hole considering it was so delayed. They really hired the wrong team composition (few software engineers) and shot themselves in the foot.

To be fair, the devs were clearly not up to the task. Even when we give them the most benefit of the doubt i.e. they started working on KSP2 when they released it into early access (which isn't such a far stretch when you see what 4 years of development did from the 2019 demo and the "EA" release) in 14 months they didn't manage to make a workable game. Which is to put in perspective to what happened with a single unexperienced dev in KSP1...

@@Bourinos02 Iirc. they changed development company, they kept the project secret and couldn't hire anyone really that knew anything about ksp1, despite wanting to reuse code from it. Then they had to rewrite a lot of the stuff. The goals were unclear and shifting. Covid hit at some point. But... the early access of KSP2 contained a helluva lot more game than the first early access of KSP1, which didn't even have any objects to even fly to.

@@nt78stonewobble No, I don't buy these excuses that don't make any sense and are coming from someone financially tied to KSP2. It was always supposed to be from scratch, all of that was pre-EA launch where some excuses might be somewhat valid. After EA the lies just appeared in plain sight. No polishing happened because no features were there in the first place. As for the comparison with KSP1, I have no clue why would you bring this to the table. It took a single unexperienced dev to go from literally 0 lines of code to 0.15 the same time it took a fully funded "professional" team to release 1 content patch and 3 fix patches to a game where they copied most of the work from KSP1 and yet couldn't make it work properly. If you compare it to the same development timeline i.e. KSP2 development started at the absolute latest in 2019, it's day and night difference as KSP1 went from nothing to fully featured, fully functional game in the same timeframe.

@@Bourinos02 " No, I don't buy these excuses that don't make any sense and are coming from someone financially tied to KSP2." Well, it might be true or it might not be, the fact is that you don't know. "It was always supposed to be from scratch, all of that was pre-EA launch where some excuses might be somewhat valid. After EA the lies just appeared in plain sight. No polishing happened because no features were there in the first place." That's not consistent with what the shadowzone video mentions. "As for the comparison with KSP1, I have no clue why would you bring this to the table. It took a single unexperienced dev to go from literally 0 lines of code to 0.15 the same time it took a fully funded "professional" team to release 1 content patch and 3 fix patches to a game where they copied most of the work from KSP1 and yet couldn't make it work properly. If you compare it to the same development timeline i.e. KSP2 development started at the absolute latest in 2019, it's day and night difference as KSP1 went from nothing to fully featured, fully functional game in the same timeframe." Because people are simply misrepresenting how long it took to develop ksp1 into an actual game, add features, fix bugs etc. KSP1 initial early access release: "v0.7.3 Released June 24th, 2011 Initial Release Notable Features Downloaded over 5000 times No SAS, although SAS module is implemented and generates torque The only engine, the LV-T30 can only be fed by one FL-T500 attached on its top The AV-R8 Winglet is just a fin and can't be used to control the vehicle It is nearly impossible to achieve orbit Kerbin is the only celestial object, does not rotate, and is a mirror reflection of the example planet from libnoise The sun is a directional light source at infinite distance The render distance is only 1500 km, and Kerbin will "sink" into the sky background, vanishing entirely as that altitude is achieved The original Intercontinental Kraken had not been fixed (Moving far from the KSC will result in shaking and even Rapid Unplanned Disassembly due to floating-point precision loss.)" Fact is, that unlike KSP1, the first publicly available release of KSP2 did include an entire solar system to go to and relatively functional basic gameplay.

You heared of Kraken, right? That is becouse Ksp1 code is streched af, aint stable and this prevents expansions. Hell, you can't even add inclinations to planets without breaking everything. Its amazing it works so well as it dose. Discutions about necessity of rewriting or sequel is a decade old. Mind that ksp1 didnt start with an end goal in mind, it was just a fun project. Hell, before 1st version rolled out, it was in 2D 😄

Imagine Minecraft 2 💀

Okay, but…Planetary Annihilation is a pretty fun RTS. A bit standard, but still fun.

@@Merudiana-the-local-demoness I backed PA from Kickstarter, I really wanted to love it, but although it had a lot of neat ideas, it fell a long way short of TA and Supcom.

That is a bit harsh on PA. Its been too long for me to clearly remember what was first promised, but it seems to me that that was pretty satisfactorily finished. Just perhaps not as good of execution as fans hoped. It is still a solid game.

@@fatcat2546 I would agree with that, I think it met what they promised, it just didn't reach the lofty heights I hoped for.

Well, selling it without announcing on the page that it's abandoned.

It's fine to sell an abandoned game, But they should disclose it's no longer supported

There's zero legal standing to force a company to release the codebase to a closed-source videogame. You'd have a far better chance (still nearly zero) of doing a fundraiser to buy the codebase and IP from T2.

You know that's not how the Law Works right? You can sue them by all means go for it, but can't FORCE them to release the source code for their game. I don't even think theirs a Legel President or case where that was a thing.

Eidos did it with Warzone 2100. After a fan petition though. Not a lawsuit

Thing is T2 could recover things by doing this. 1). T2 acknowledge the nonsense and remove the roadmap and all the BS surrounding future updates 2). T2 apologies to the community 3). Cut the price of KSP2 to a value that reflects the actual content of the game, Max £10 at best. 4). Release the source code and let the talented community do what it does best. I don't really see what benefit T2 has by holding the source code anyway, from what I've seen and read KSP2's source code is just a patchwork of KSP1 code rather than a desperately needed full update 5). T2 sit back and keep quiet about KSP, if they really want another go at it try again in a few years time and do the job right or sell the IP to someone else and let them do the job right. As it stands right now KSP under T2 is dead, no one will trust anything they say or do with the IP in the future, follow the steps above and there is a chance they could rebuild a bit of the trust that has been lost in the IP.

Should they have continued to fund the game that was years behind its promised timeline and wasn't making much money on top of this? They gave them a lot longer leash than I thought they would have, and PD wasn't able to deliver more than the most basic stuff after several years.

I have a list of publishers and game studios I don't buy early access from.

I'll still buy T2 products. They release some of the best games out there. The only thing they did wrong was give Intercept too much leeway to careen out of control on unobtainable goals.

Proper early access is great for developing but it looks like the goal for early access now is to get paid early and that results in lack of incentive for completing development.

And we will laughing at gta6 when it was release with skydrow beacause after they break the security it will free the fps

Wait until they release GTA VI. TakeTwo will be laughing even more. There's too many sheep out there. You know, the same one's who buy 90 series card from NVIDIA every time there's a new one.

At you, I'm not buying early access games or do preorders for at least a decade.

Literally every triple-A studio that absorbs a smaller studio. NEVER under any circumstance buy a triple-A game again or ever support a consumed studio. Just don't. It has never ended well

Would have been a pretty terrible money grab if so. They never even got close to breaking even on this mess.

Sad McCoy noises.

They aren't really the same thing though. I mean I like space engineers as well, but it scratches a different itch than KSP.

@@11matt555 I agree. I do know I saw a lot of stuff on the SE forums however, suggesting that KSP2 was going to syphon a ton of people away from SE. When I do play, I play Keen servers for PVP. So I suppose I am moderately happy to not have the player drain everyone thought was coming. Sucks for the engineers behind KSP2 though, and the fans of the first game...

A lot of people thought Star Citizen would pull a lot of people away from X:Rebirth, too.

Request a refund. Keep requesting it; Valve are granting refunds for users well past the 2-hour limit, and they're just going to be more and more flexible on this the longer T2 maintains silence on the matter.

@@oasntet Probably not good idea to request a refund just yet and let the situation cook a bit for better chance of a refund. But worst of all, Valve is probably the one that would foot the cost for that refund.

@@spugelo359 I doubt Valve would foot the bill; if Take2 wants to keep selling stuff through Steam, they're going to need to do whatever Valve asks. What's more, Valve probably already has a big pile of Take2's money sitting in an account somewhere on a 90-day float basis for exactly this sort of situation.

Just get it back, they are violating both Steam's Early Access agreement AND European consumer law. You're perfectly entitled to that money back.

I think i will do what Oasntet said wait it out a little and when it 100% is a lost cause i will try to get that refund. But still a shame was really looking forward to the future of this game

Ouch.

lmao

Or pictures of them for thousands of $!

To bad they can't open source it. That's what eidos did with Warzone 2100. 20 years later and that game is still being updated and runs on everything.

just do a 5 min research about the game before buy. It has so many red flags that I did not bought it even tho KSP 1 is my most played game on steam.

Wait, wasn't icarus a flop? Idk.

T2 had been funding it for years past its originally promised release date... its not even about monetization, its more that they were losing a ton of money and the devs could barely put out a science patch after several years.

Yeah, it's not even about earning more money with something else, it was about plugging the giant bleeding financial wound that was KSP2 development. Their main fault was not shutting it down three years earlier; then they'd have had three years to find a dev studio they could actually see eye-to-eye on for the scope of work and funding, or just kill the whole thing before the public got involved.

Yeah, this is only going to get easier in the near future. If T2 doesn't actually have a team working on updates, Valve are going to side with complaining customers more and more, potentially to the point of axing the store page entirely and refunding everybody. Valve aren't angels, but the amount it would cost them to refund everybody is a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket, and they get to punish T2 in the process.

Same. Took a few tries but I got it

Can I ask what reasons you used? mine got rejected

@@BernardoPC117 yep. I’ll post my exact request when I get a chance. In about an hour. I kept a copy before posting for this reason.

@@BernardoPC117 they said no a few times so I wrote a lengthy and direct message about how the game was not up to steam standards and they were violating there own policy. I also pointed out that they cannot charge for future features and I just wanted my money as credit so I can get something playable. Last I told them I would respond with a lawyer if they said no again. Be direct but not rude . Hope this helps

Play KSP1. It's a perfectly fine game that actually WORKS.

The OG KSP is superior in literally every way. And in those that you might argue it isn't... mods

@Canzandridas not being able to use hall effect thrusters or switch away from something burning up in the atmosphere are issues. I've had countless bases ground slammed and stations wobble to death. Let's not go nuts.

@@patricklewis7636 Struts are a way to fix the kraken [wobbling to death]

Id say its more- don't buy early access with the hopes it'll get where you want it, buy it because you think you'll get a reasonable amount of entertainment for the price. The early access I've bought like this were generally worth it and while not all of them matured as I'd like what I bought was agreeable already.

If you keep trying someone might give you a refund. The 2hour/2weeks thing is only for the Automated system. Keep trying and SOMEONE at Value should manually process the request.

Keep trying. Tell them the game does not meet their own standards and you will be contacting a lawyer. That worked for me.. don’t ask nicely but do t be rude

This. It would probably be less risk to start a new project from scratch. You'd need to devote more resources to it, but at least you could sell it to the customers again.

Hardly a cash grab, the game was years late and they were still fully funding it. It looks like it was more of a "stop loss" action to liquidate the studio and shelve the game since they had planned on a full release 4 years ago but have dragged on since. They probably lost money on the whole situation.

​@@okankyoto I would agree except that it is still up for sale as early access. With no team currently developing the game it is no longer early access and should not be for sale. Though it is.

they might be able to save a lot of the artwork. the sound design and visuals of ksp2 were decent. but yeah, the code is probably trash.

My friend has it. It's basically unplayable. Way too many bugs. In a simulation like that even one miscalculation can trash your whole mission, and it regularly does. It also has a lot less features than KSP1, so buying it makes no sense, except it is a lot prettier.