Hard/Soft clipping also helps a lot. Instead of over-saturating the sample to increase perceived loudness, slipping a few dbs off and boosting the gain can help make that kick smack harder, without too much coloration...
I wouldn’t advice clipping or limiting as there will normally be a lot extra limiting in the mastering stage. Since the Kick is one of the most energetic sound in the mix the transients will get even more squashed in the end.
isnt it ideal to clip the loudest element in the track before going into a limiter? Limiter wont have to work as hard and you can push it easier@@hcl8836
@@hcl8836what if you have to do a low filter cut on the kick, that will take some of the energy from it. Is there another way to get the kick hitting hard apart from clipping/limiting?
I'm Back Back Back Back with Another one of these tips videos. Let me know if you guys enjoy the straight to the point approach and if you want to support my music check out my new track CAN I ASK YOU : fanlink.to/ciay
"It seems like layering kicks in today's age is like a 21 year old dude trying to get his smash count up" hahahhahah What an awesome metaphor. Per usual, great video!
I love the BAX EQ low cut on the kicks, It almost works on every kick, at least for me it does. I also like to clip it with Flatline for extra punch especially with recorded kicks from drum machines.
Just a remark to be fair and correct, the mention " Music is Unlimited Power " belongs to Sarshas Grpel, Audio Engineer and Professional Producer called also as SATYA ,from BOOM SHANKA Label . This man and brother motivate and brought me inside of electronic music digital production.🙏
Gain staging isn’t mentioned here and I think that’s kind of strange. If you use a utility gain and make sure that on every instrument it’s the first thing in the chain …and you bring that instrument down to -18 dB that is the sweet spot for an instrument or a sound to be put through any type of processor whether it is delay reverb distortion etc. Quality of your sounds is extremely better if you gain stage at -18db
Thanks mate, appreciate the straight to the point approach. One of the problem i'm facing more & more is my biais for "clean" kicks. I end up cutting -47530db the mids, especially 200hz. I then enjoy the "roundness" of the final product at the price of a serious lack of punch & character. I've heard other people struggling with this trade off aswell. Cheers
Thanks for the experience! Yeah man it's very finicky and tradeoffs. I haven't really reduced around 200 on a kick that much anymore. It's also hard as business techno I see that 500hz is not that omitted which leads to that rim shot distorted knock many people have on the generic shit.
I used to use -6db in the early 200's but around 2007 I started using -10db for my Kicks and mixing everything around that and a few years ago I starting using the Katz -14 loudnes system for Tech house and It leaves so much head room for mastering, I'm usually at around -9db to -7db when I bounce my pre master, I'm lucky enough to have been doing this since the early 90's working in studios in Philly and NYC so Ive accumulated a metric shit ton of gear over the years but a few years ago I finally had to admit that software has finally just about caught up, I have a real SSL Bus-comp and a set of Pultec EQP-1As that I used to run my pre master mixdowns through but now I just use the new SSL Bus comp 2 and my UAD Pultec plugins and maybe I'm getting old but I can't really hear a difference on my monitors (Maybe if I had some Barefoots but I don't have 20k per monitor HAHA. Great videos Zen. I'm of to record my new gear,..... a very special vintage mono synth from a company that was owned by this guy named Bob,.... Hey wait, I think you know his Grandmother? Anyway the volume knob on this unit is special,...... It goes to 11 just in case I need that extra little bit 😂
Agreed. Your DAW might have a decent metering utility built in, but I really like the (free) mvMeter plugin by TB Pro Audio. I usually use it in VU mode, but peak dB is available too. I usually insert one meter at the start of my plug-in chain and one at the end. Then when using something like Black Box, I have some nice analogue-stle displays that tell me the volume going into the effect(s) and how much comes out the other side. You can then use the knobs in Black Box to get to your target output volume, or use the knob in the middle of the metering plugin to turn the gain down (or up sometimes) so that both meters have the same peaks. You get a much better feel for how much saturation is being applied if you do this kind of thing for gain-matching, and it also helps you to avoid digital clipping, since you can see exactly what the levels are hitting. The numbers on the screen are also a lot more accurate than what my ears tell me is going on!
The more I produce the more I want simpler workflow. I love Punchbox and have seen it but it just causes me to finicky to much with the settings and I'm never happy! I'd rather just use plugins at the moment that are like HERE IS THE SOUND LIKE IT OR NOT.. FCK OFF and then I decide. I have unlimited possibilities question everything
@@ZenWorld Agreed. The Simpler the workflow, the better. Earlier days i always tried to make kicks from scratch until i got wiser and learned that it does not have to be complicated to sound good. And regarding punchbox, I actually mostly only use the fx section to beef the kick sample a littlebit up and thats it. And i think it does a great job with giving the kick a bit more character.
I know it's all just guidelines as opposed to clear cut rules however where should my rough db be on kicks basses and such for rezz/1788-L style midtempo
Hey awesome video thank you! This is probably a newbie question, but can anyone answer this for me please? When layering kicks, should you put them in key first? E.g select 3 kicks which are in Gm.....or is this not so important? Many thanks ❤
ZEN please could you make a video on more about what you mentioned on the anchoring? For example level kick, bass, percussion, hats, synths etc and the level each should be at to give a full sound that is properly balanced. Spoke to a few producer mate who watch you and we were all not sure. Even knowing the kick should stay at -6 gives me something to work with.
just level out your kick and bass and make sure they work together. everything else is just mixed to taste. your kick does not necessarily have to be at -6db
It's important to understand that even if your kick is at -6 and your hihat "rule" is to have it at -12, that hi hat is going to have a loudness of itself. The hat might have a really loud peak transient that hits -12 but the body will be at -24. That hihat is not going to be loud enough that way. It's your job as a producer to notice this, trim the hihat to a desired loudness level (with a clipper probably), and then mix it in to taste. A spectral analyser will go a long way as most people are afraid of putting the percussions loud enough which results in a bad mix. Hopefully this helps :)
Along with the tips above, I'd also recommend using reference tracks (even for things like drum loops). When you're happy with your kick and snare and are trying to get the volume of your hats and/or percussion right, play some "complete" loops as references so you know what you're aiming for. Using an EQ with a spectrum analyser (e.g. FabFilter Pro Q) can help too since the reference will show you what sort of curve your reference drum patterns should look like, so you should be able to spot if your new project loop is too loud/quiet in some parts of the frequency range. By looking, listening and comparing to references you'll soon be able to recognise things like "My hats are spiking too much at 6kHz" or "There's a hole in my loop around 2k where I can add some more cowbell" etc.
Great video, will definitely be using the notch eq on my. next track. What do you think about filtering everything below 30-40hz in order to avoid sub-bass clashes?
When you process a sound, pre-mixing, should you want everything at -18db on the fader? You suggest -6db for the kick at the mixing stage? Thanks for the clarification
He meant the peak level, not average. The average of kick would be somewhere -12 to -18 RMS/LUFS depending on the genre, length of the kick tail, dynamic range etc. ;)
@@jeromekrupp3116 What is even more important is the crest factor! It is easy to compare the crest factor of a kick drum of your favourite producer and by setting properly a VU meter or any other meter that you prefer, such as LUFS, you can synthesize your own kick drum precisely or layer it if you wish, or even choose a sample if you like. You should have in mind that the crest factor is measured after the mastering and that it allows you to have a few extra dBs for the peaks/transients.
Hi, I might be wrong but I was under the impression that most plugins expect -12 or -18 to be fully driven before saturating / distorting. But then it might just be the transient hitting hard and the rest is less than -6. Not sure.
My dear fellow colleague, you are so much wrong in this video! Let's start with the kick drum! It's not bad to know what your peak level is, but it is much more crucial to know what's the crest factor or the RMS or even the LUFS of that initial sample. Your -6 on the peak full scale will mean nothing to you as a producer if you want to set your kick drum sample to have already competitive standardized loudness without too much processing. That's why I recommend synthesizing your kick drum or layering it properly, bearing in mind the crest factor and carefully sculpting all the individual parts of the kick drum such as the initial click/the transient hit, the body of the kick drum -thus it's tone and the low-mid range, and the tail.
My dear fellow colleague, you are so much wrong in this video! Let's start with the kick drum! It's not bad to know what your peak level is, but it is much more crucial to know what's the crest factor or the RMS or even the LUFS of that initial sample. Your -6 on the peak full scale will mean nothing to you as a producer if you want to set your kick drum sample to have already competitive standardized loudness without too much processing. That's why I recommend synthesizing your kick drum or layering it properly, bearing in mind the crest factor and carefully sculpting all the individual parts of the kick drum such as the initial click/the transient hit, the body of the kick drum -thus it's tone and the low-mid range, and the tail.
Thanks for engaging and giving your opinion on the matter. Haven’t had issues with proper anchoring of the kick and has worked wonders. Many ways to reach a desired result and I’m sure yours works as well too much love!
